Wow. I was listening to this video and thinking, “I’ve heard all this before — these are the arguments against debating creationists from 20 years ago!” They’re all there: the “for the audience” claims, the Gish gallop, every lie takes 10 seconds to give, 10 minutes to refute, etc., etc., etc. It was, like, deja vu, man.
The only difference is that the creationists were never arguing for genocide. I don’t think.
It makes me regret those debates I had with creationists.
The things I do to try and comprehend the mental workings of creationists…I wasted 16 minutes on a video of Andrew Snelling explaining why he is a creationist. To make a too-long story short and cut right to the main point, he doesn’t. Not at all. I sat there waiting for him to get to the point and explain how he got to that point, but he doesn’t. Or maybe he does right at the beginning — he was brought up in a very religious family, was thoroughly indoctrinated into Christianity, and then discovered how neat-o rocks are on a family vacation, so he tried to force-fit geology into his young-earth, biblical “literalist” point of view. When he commits to studying geology, starting a geology club in high school, he seems to approach it from a stamp-collecting point of view, completely dismissing the idea of mechanisms behind geology.
When he discovers Whitcomb & Morris’s The Genesis Flood, he thinks all the questions have been resolved and is done. I remember stumbling across that book in high school, reading the first chapter, and shoving it back on the library shelf with contempt. It’s a garbage book. The very first sentence is In harmony with our conviction that the Bible is the infallible Word of God, verbally inspired in the original autographs, we begin our investigation of the geographical extent of the Flood with seven Biblical arguments in favor of its universality.
Basically, they’re claiming that they’re going to demonstrate the validity of their premises by reciting a statement of their premises. Even a teenager should be able to see the problem with that approach, and they only fail if they’re blinded by their own priors.
Snelling isn’t capable of thinking that way. He’s just soaking in dogma.
Michael Behe has this new book out, Darwin Devolves. I haven’t been able to muster enough enthusiasm to even want to try and dissect it — that man has been shitting on science for at least 20 years now, and having picked through his fecal piles before, I know what to expect, and am tired of it. He is tediously predictable.
Fortunately, Gregory Lang and Amber Rice have the willingness to do the dirty work and dive right in and sift through the shit in this excellent review, Evolution unscathed: Darwin Devolves argues on weak reasoning that unguided evolution is a destructive force, incapable of innovation. They discover that Behe cherry-picks his evidence, ignoring, or worse, being completely ignorant of, vast orchards of information that directly refute his premise, which Lang and Rice cite and summarize. It’s an informative review. Go read it, I won’t rehash it. You’ll learn a lot from it.
I will mention the conclusion, which discusses the peculiar tension at the heart of the evolution/creation argument. I did highlight one sentence.
Without a hint of irony, Darwin Devolves cautions us that “[t]he academic ideas of nutty professors don’t always stay confined to ivory towers. They sometimes seep out into the wider world with devastating results (p257).”
Scientists—by nature or by training—are skeptics. Even the most time-honored theories are reevaluated as new data come to light. There is active debate, for example, on the relative importance of changes to regulatory versus coding sequence in evolution (Hoekstra and Coyne 2007; Stern and Orgogozo 2008), the role of neutral processes in evolution (Kern and Hahn 2018; Jensen et al. 2019), and the extent to which evolutionary paths are contingent on chance events (Blount et al. 2018). Vigorous debate is part and parcel of the scientific process, lest our field stagnate. Behe, however, belabors the lack of consensus on relatively minor matters to proclaim that evolutionary biology as a whole is on shaky ground.
By reviewing Behe’s latest book, we run the risk of drawing attention—or worse, giving credibility—to his ideas. Books like Darwin Devolves, however, must be openly challenged and refuted, even if it risks giving publicity to misbegotten views. Science benefits from public support. Largely funded by federal grants, scientists have a moral responsibility (if not a financial obligation) to ensure that the core concepts of our respective fields are communicated effectively and accurately to the public and to our trainees. This is particularly important in evolutionary biology, where—over 150 years after On the Origin of Species—less than 20% of Americans accept that humans evolved by natural and unguided processes (Gallup 2014). It is hard to think of any other discipline where mainstream acceptance of its core paradigm is more at odds with the scientific consensus.
Why evolution by natural selection is difficult for so many to accept is beyond the scope of this review; however, it is not for a lack of evidence: the data (only some of which we present here) are more than sufficient to convince any open-minded skeptic that unguided evolution is capable of generating complex systems. A combination of social and historical factors creates a welcoming environment for an academic voice that questions the scientific consensus. Darwin Devolves was designed to fit this niche.
Creationists like to pretend that there is still a legitimate debate here, and their absurd confidence does seem to be effective in swaying, as they mention, about 80% of the population. In response to their ignorance, responsible scientists are expected to invest a great deal of effort in reacting to stupidity. It is ten thousand times harder to master the science behind evolutionary biology than it is to read a few bible verses and some clueless apologetics and decide that the science is all wrong. Behe, and people like him, are ridiculous crackpots, and we’re saddled with the obligation to refute them.
And yet we do. Or Lang and Rice do. I’m sitting this one out, which makes me immensely grateful that more scientists are joining in the battle.
For everyone who thought that previous atheist caricature was accurate, I have to tell you it’s not.
Here’s a better illustration of the atheist lifestyle.
The weather is about right, but here in flat Minnesota one is more likely to do cross-country bondage skiing than downhill.
Suddenly I’m seeing this image popping up all over. But it’s over ten years old! And worst of all, it’s not real — it’s made by an atheist, which explains why the list of characteristics sounds so awesome. It’s also not a particularly useful perspective on how non-atheists think.
Hate atheists? So do we! Your typical atheist smokes marijuanana associates with jews masturbates regularly partakes in deviant sexual proclivities worships at the alter of the internet. To find out more come to atheist awareness week!!! april 2008
While I was trying to track this down, though, I ran across this old post on Scienceblogs by Matt Nisbet, which reminded me of how much I was hated by some of my colleagues on that site. No, really, you might have seen evidence of the friction in some of the published posts, but there were a couple of people who really pulled out the knives in the back channel. This is relatively mild stuff.
Consider this recent article at the National Catholic Register. Titled “The Face of the New Atheism,” it profiles PZ Myers and his rants against the Eucharist and the Catholic community. Notice the key words emphasized. The dominant image of atheism portrayed in the article is one of “hate,” “contempt,” “dogmatism,” “a junior high level understanding of religion,” “irate,” “incredulous,” “bigoted”…the list goes on.
Is this how we really want Catholics to view us? Do we really want a group of moderately religious Americans–who polls show otherwise prize science and reason, and who stand for many of the same values that we hold dear–to think of us through the prism of PZ Myers?
Right. The National Catholic Register. This is a guy holding up as a source an extremely conservative newspaper that idolizes Bill Donohue, echoing the arguments of Donohue and Mark Mathis, producer of the movie Expelled, which worships Catholicism, and considers atheists as tools of the anti-christ. I guess he thought it was as valid a source of information about atheists as anything else. It’s a bad memory. Sometimes things got rather toxic at the old site.
But what redeems it all is that Nisbet then goes on to cite as a counter-example, his paragon of what a good atheist should be. It’s DJ Grothe, the guy who later was found to have covered up sexual harassment at the Amazing Meetings, who abruptly left the JREF under a cloud, who was strangely characterized as a psychopath by people who had to spend much time with him, and who had a fondness for crude rape jokes.
I actually first met DJ Grothe about a year before at Dragon*Con in 2010. I had admired his work on Point of Inquiry and when he became president of the JREF I thought it would be a great thing. When I got a chance to meet him that year I was excited. We encountered one another at a Skepchick party (one that had to be moved to the lobby because of noise complaints as soon as it started). He was drunk, but it was a social occasion and I’d had a couple cocktails as well. No big deal. I was fairly surprised though, when DJ turned to me and said that the reason everyone loved the Skepchicks was because they “want pussy”. That seemed to be a rather dismissive and insultingly sexist way to dismiss the work of your professional colleagues (not to mention the people whose booze you were at that moment drinking.
I’m embarrassed to say that at the time I was still a bit fame-struck and too shocked to really process it. I didn’t do what I should have done, and told him how rude, insulting, and unprofessional it was to say something like that, even while drunk. Even in a casual social setting. But then it got more bizarre and incredible. I’m a tall guy, chubby (fat, honestly) and bearded. If I were gay I would definitely be a bear. This was discussed and DJ then made an
hilarioushorrendous “joke” about how I should pay him a visit down in Los Angeles so that he could drug me and let some of his friends have some fun with me. You know, in other words so that I could be gang raped.
Nisbet’s post hasn’t aged well, and I’m now proud to have been such a bad atheist, if that’s what atheism is supposed to be more like.
By the way, Rebecca Watson talked about Grothe back in 2014. If you want a glimpse into what a shitshow the skeptic/atheist movements have been, just read the comments.
Christians. I’ve just learned that they regard themselves as Not Of This World, so they’re not even from Earth. I guess we’ll have to deny them the vote now, and send ’em back to where they came from. Or maybe Build The Roof so they’ll quit invading in their terror caravans.
Apparently there is a popular bumper sticker for this mob of illegal aliens, although I haven’t seen any around here, or I’d have to turn them into homeland security. I’d never put one on my car, that’s for sure. But I did get an alternative in the mail: Noodles of the Marinara
Now that’s a true American symbol.
There are a few things you should test that this fellow claims.
OK. Cows can do amazing things.
I don’t own a cow, so it’s a little inconvenient for me to try this stuff, although I suppose I could drop by the dairy farm a half mile away. The cattle yard is full of plutonium, though, and that stuff can kill you, so I’m a bit afraid to try.
Do you think dairy farmers and cattle ranchers and cowboys are all swigging down gallons of cow piss to counter the carcinogenic effects of all that radioactivity? Do radios between American cow horns just emit Slim-Whitman-like yodels instead of “Om”?
It’s true, according to Bible scholar Joel Green, who argues that in order to be a good Bible scholar, one must be a devoted Christian.
The best biblical scholars genuinely love Scripture, and come to its pages ready to hear God’s address. They exhibit both a certain posture vis-à-vis the text and their own formation in relation to it, and a commitment to the hard work of reading Scripture that takes seriously the nature of the text.
The former involves the life of discipleship, of Christian formation, of worship, and of prayer. As I have written elsewhere: “Formed by our reading of Scripture, we become better readers of Scripture. This is not because we become better skilled at applying biblical principles. The practice of reading Scripture is not about learning how to mold the biblical message to contemporary lives and modern needs. Rather, the Scriptures yearn to reshape how we comprehend our lives and identify our greatest needs. We find in Scripture who we are and what we might become, so that we come to share its assessment of our situation, encounter its promise of restoration, and hear its challenge to serve God’s good news.”
Huh. I’d argue sort of the opposite. The challenge of being a good scholar is to maintain some objectivity and ability to assess one’s biases. Being a devout Christian doesn’t help studying the Bible as a historical document — it also doesn’t preclude it, although it does generate many subjective obstacles. It also makes you a crap scholar if you automatically dismiss the contributions of atheist, Muslim, and Jewish scholars.
So I can keep studying spiders after all! Yay!
I did a little experiment. I made a video criticizing a loony comic book guy who hates SJWs. I was also partly driven by disgust: he lies transparently. In this one video he made, he goes over published reviews of a movie online, taps on the screen with his pencil, and says the reverse of what the reviewer said, and his fans believe him. Honestly, it’s that blatant: he shows a positive, favorable review, which any viewer can easily read, and declares that, well, this reviewer can’t even stomach the film, contradicting the review in plain sight. It’s psychologically fascinating and revolting at the same time.
So I pointed out that he’s lying over and over again.
Of course his fans discovered that I’d criticized their hero and came flooding in, which is where it gets interesting. I’m told I have low testosterone, I’m boring, I need to watch more of his videos (no thank you), and since I’m obviously a Social Justice Warrior, my opinion is not to be trusted. For instance…
I think you misunderstood what SJW is . You are a Beta Male by definition. That would make you a white knight with a agenda to deny your own masculinity in procurement of selfish attention . Mostly by overly dominant females. Your total lack of information is also a symptom of a SJW mindset and especially a Beta Male.
Ouch. So many cliches. “Beta male”, “white knight”, “deny your own masculinity”, and I’m motivated solely by my craving for attention from dominant feeemales. None of that addresses any of the points I made, and in fact, none of the comments addressed the problem that this Ethan Van Sciver character is openly misrepresenting what he shows.
Further, they mainly seemed to be focused on their martyr complex and imaginary conspiracy theories. For example…
The problem with SJ is that it’s not real Justice. In real justice, you are innocent until proven guilty. You have the right to a trial. You have the right face your accuser. You have the right to counsel. Evidence needs to be gathered to support the accuser’s claims. SJ has no court, no appeals and no jury. SJ only requires an accusation and a twitter mob to take your life away. SJ is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
I couldn’t let that stand, so I asked, “Whose life has been taken away without due process by SJWs?” He had an answer.
OH MAN! I’m glad you asked. I’m short on time, so I’ll just point some more glaring examples of the lives effected by an evil philosophy.
Count Dancula
Jessie Smollet
Vic Mignogna
Hayden Williams
Nick Sandmann (along with the entire school)
Steven Crowder
Jordan Peterson
Martina Markota
Lindsay Shepherd
I could sincerely go on. Social justice sounds beautiful. I get it. But the underlying philosophical pillars are build on sand.
Jordan Peterson video on SJ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA96Kf30TQU
Count Dankula is a British YouTuber who trained a dog to make a Nazi salute in response to the phrase, “Gas the Jews”. He was fined £800 for violating the Communications Act with his tasteless joke. He then went on to raise £100,000 on GoFundMe.
Jussie Smollett is an American actor who apparently (it’s currently under investigation) staged a hate crime. I’m not sure why he’s on the list, since it blew up in his face and he’s destroyed his own career.
Vic Mignogna is an American voice actor for anime. Multiple women, many of whom were underage at the time, have stepped forward to accuse him of decades worth of sexual harassment, and he’s lost a major gig after an investigation, and anime cons aren’t inviting him to their events any more. So yes, he’s lost revenue for his actions. Deservedly.
Hayden Williams is a representative for Turning Point USA who was punched by Zachary Greenberg while he was staffing a table at UC Berkeley. Greenberg was arrested and is facing serious criminal charges. Greenberg’s life has been and is going to be seriously affected…is that a bad thing?
Nick Sandmann is the smug, obnoxious high school kid who confronted a Native American singer at the Lincoln Memorial. Nothing has happened to him or his school, other than that his behavior was shown in a viral video. His family is suing the Washington Post for $250 million.
Steven Crowder…are you fucking kidding me? He’s one of the dumbest people on YouTube, and he’s parlayed that into gigs on Blaze TV, Fox News, PragerU, and the Glenn Beck show. The only penalty he seems to have suffered is that Fox News dropped him…for criticizing noted SJW Sean Hannity.
Jordan Peterson…jesus. This is ridiculous. Peterson is a man who has turned his persecution complex and his bizarre Jungian ideas into a money-making machine. He has suffered no substantial consequence other than, perhaps, self-afflicted constipation from his terrible diet.
Martina Markota is a far-right fanatical Trump supporter who spreads conspiracy theories, like PizzaGate, and shills for the Proud Boys. She had an account with Chase Bank that was closed, because the banks…hate…conservatives? I guess? She then raised $34,000 on IndieGoGo.
Lindsay Shepherd was a Peterson acolyte who was reprimanded for showing a Peterson video in a class she was TAing (I actually think the reprimand was inappropriate), and has since gone on to a career as a speaker and columnist for far right media, and has a few multi-million dollar lawsuits against the university pending.
So, basically, in response to a request for names of people who have had their lives taken away by horrible SJWs, he listed people who are profiting from conspiracy theories about how horrible SJWs are taking away people’s lives. Please, could someone ruin my life this way?
I expressed my disbelief that he actually cited Jordan Peterson as someone whose life has been destroyed by SJWs. Here’s his nonsensical reply.
Jordan Peterson is a Genius Canadian Treasure. And the leftist propaganda machine have been trying to slander him for years. It’s not working because no one trusts the media, and Peterson makes sense. The fact that he’s successful isn’t evidence that he’s not been maligned. All the money he’s making is a result of free market choices. Which in the end, is the fairest measure of success.
I think I’m done with these loons. Experiment successful. Once again, dishonest conservative blowhard is exposed for his lies, and once again, it makes no difference — it will be turned into profit and imaginary confirmation of the lies.
Everything was working against me. I took Lutheran confirmation classes in about 1970, and Monty Python’s The Meaning of Life didn’t come out until 1983. And even when it did, they cut this scene out of the movie! Tsk. I would have appreciated learning more about the life of Martin Luther.
