I remember, over 20 years ago, there were furious online debates where some of the worst people in the world were making repulsive arguments about what children were old enough to fuck. They were claiming that you weren’t a pedophile if the children were adolescents — you were a “hebephile,” as if that made a difference. It doesn’t.
Now Megyn Kelly is echoing that same stupid claim. I thought we were done with that stupid nonsense.
MEGYN KELLY (HOST): As for Epstein, I’ve said this before, but just as a reminder, I do know somebody very, very close to this case who is in a position to know virtually everything. Not everything, but virtually everything. And this person has told me from the start years and years ago that Jeffrey Epstein, in this person’s view, was not a pedophile. This is this person’s view, who was there for a lot of this, but that he was into the barely legal type. Like, he liked 15-year-old girls. And I realized this is disgusting. I’m definitely not trying to make an excuse for this. I’m just giving you facts, that he wasn’t into, like, 8-year-olds. But he liked the very young teen types that could pass for even younger than they were, but would look legal to a passerby.
And that is what I believed, and that is what I reliably was told for many years. And it wasn’t until we heard from Pam Bondi that they had tens of thousands of videos of alleged — forgive me, they used to call it kiddie porn, now they call it child sexual abuse material — on his computer that for the first time, I thought, oh, no, he was an actual pedophile. I mean, only a pedophile gets off on young children abuse videos. She’s never clarified it, I don’t know whether it’s true. I have to be honest, I don’t really trust Pam Bondi’s word on the Epstein matters anymore.
BATYA UNGAR-SARGON (GUEST): Or anything else.
KELLY: Yeah, so I don’t know what’s true about him, but we have yet to see anybody come forward and say I was under 10, I was under 14 when I first came within his purview. You can say that’s a distinction without a difference. I think there is a difference. There’s a difference between a 15-year-old and a 5-year-old, you know?
What is that difference, exactly? They’re both under the age of consent. They’re minors, you don’t suddenly become fair game for sexual abuse when your breasts begin to grow. For that matter, adults aren’t sexual objects either, but I don’t think the people who make these bad arguments really care about that, either. But then, Megyn Kelly has long been prone to making idiotic claims — remember when she was irate that Santa Claus could be anything but a white man?
It’s nice that she doesn’t trust Pam Bondi, but I don’t trust Megyn Kelly, either. She went on to say…
Kelly acknowledged Epstein’s abuse of underage girls, telling Ungar-Sargon,
[Epstein] did like them young, and there were several young women who he did this to who were minors, who were underage. There’s just no question about that.She then insisted that Trump was not involved, adding,
That is a true fact about Jeffrey Epstein. But that is not a true fact about Donald Trump.
We’re learning all kinds of surprising things about Donald Trump lately.
That’s Epstein’s brother asking him about some compromising photos; there was a flurry of speculation that “Bubba” was Clinton, in a verified email, but the brother has come forward to say it wasn’t the former president. Interesting…a partial denial suggests that the rest might be true, that Putin has some blackmail material on Trump.
This whole affair has gotten unbelievably slimy. Now I’m worrying that we might be suffering under a President Vance in the near future.
No matter how bad the truth of what Trump did is, when it comes out, a lot or most of the MAGAs just aren’t going to care.
They already know he is guilty of being a child sexual abuser. He isn’t acting the least bit like someone who has nothing to hide. The only question is just how bad his situation really is.
There is no visible bottom to how low the MAGAs can go.
Remember that there is more than a little correlation between the states which protects the laws of middle-aged men marrying children 14 and under, and the states which are strong supporters of MAGA and Republicans. Plus, their “dear leader” did point to a 10 year old on an escalator to proudly proclaim that he’d be marrying her in 10 years.
I tend to agree with raven @ #1, although “blowing Bubba” if “Bubba” is a man and “blowing” is oral sex, might create some serious friction in the MAGA cult. Mark Epstein isn’t being too forthcoming to just say he wasn’t referring to Bill Clinton.
But I don’t care about that myself, or fine tuning the terminology. Any reasonable person knows that Trump will fuck anyone he can with or without consent. He is rapacious. Full stop. He said so in the Access Hollywood tape. His behavior in the Stormy Daniels case is consistent with what he said…he assumed the right to have sex with her. That behavior is consistent with the E. Jean Caroll case. And as for age limits, he said out loud on the Howard Stern show in 1996 in front of the cameras that he would go well below the age of consent. He went to 12 or 13 in the clip I saw.
The only advantage to getting Trump out and JD in is that JD will probably really fuck up. He’s an even bigger idiot than Trump (hard to believe).
To some extent we are already under the rule of acting presidents Stephen Miller and the other puppet masters.
Trump is obviously senile and is a meat puppet being operating by the people around him.
The data for this is what we see every day.
A few of the highlights.
.1. In a recent televised meeting in the Oval office among a crowd of people, he fell asleep for 20 minutes.
.2. “A shift in Trump’s speeches by 2024 towards shorter sentences, more tangents, more repetition, more all-or-nothing thinking and more confusion of words and phrases could indicate cognitive decline.”
.3. He keeps making claims that have no basis in fact and uses them to make decisions.
He keeps claiming Portland, Oregon is burning down and in urgent need of the National Guard. Despite the fact that it isn’t and there aren’t even much in the way of protests any more.
(He apparently got that from someone showing him a video of a riot in Portland from 2021.)
His public communications are full of imaginary events, numbers that have no existence in reality, and confusion about people, places, and things.
It’s gotten to the point, that the MSM doesn’t even comment on it any more. It isn’t news.
They used to be called ‘Pederasts’ until they themselves adopted ‘Paedophile’.
@Raven: That’s about right. I have been hearing about at least some MAGAts experiencing regret, but if Trump were to do unspeakable things to a baby, culminating in cannibalism in public view and recorded on camera, I suspect >90% of MAGA wouldn’t bat an eye and probably claim that the woke baby deserved it.
A 15 year old is NOT barely legal, or even barely illegal. Sex with a 15 year old is ILLEGAL. It is child rape.
…But he liked the very young teen types that could pass for even younger than they were, but would look legal to a passerby.
That is NOT what “barely legal” means. “Barely legal” means someone has recently reached the legal age of consent (that’s what makes them “legal”), and may (or may not) look and act much younger. And I just did a very quick and lazy lookup and found the age of consent in New York is 17, so no, 15 is NOT “barely legal”, no matter how old or young a girl might look.
There’s a difference between a 15-year-old and a 5-year-old, you know?
She keeps on talking about “a 15-year-old,” totally ignoring the well-known fact that many of Trump’s and Epstein’s victims were MUCH YOUNGER than that, like around TWELVE! Does this thoroughly self-degraded fool see a difference between a 15-year-old and a 12-year-old? She can’t possibly not know this; and her flailing excuses prove she’s at least starting to realize how low her Dear Leader really is.
PS: And who is this Batya Ungar-Sargon? That’s not Sargon of Akkhad, is it?
Wanna know who else fell back on this “pedophile vs. ephebophile” quibbling? Bill “they weren’t children and they weren’t raped” Donahue. That was his only response to reports of the full extent of sexual abuse of minors within his precious Church: lie about what the reports said (and no, the reports did NOT say ALL the victims were “children,” nor did did they say they were ALL raped), then claim the reports lied.
…And as even Japan has raised its age of consent, these mutants are increasingly isolated. Except maybe for places like Iran and Saudi Arabia.
Ngl I dont think we can take mark epstine at his word, everyone involved is a sociopath and liar. So until I have hard evidence that Bubba was someone else, I am assuming it was bill.
crimsonsage @ #11 — I agree that we can’t trust Mark Epstein. As Wikipedia says, “His wealth and its source have been the subject of investigation by both Dow Jones Institutional News and The Wall Street Journal.” He worked for his brother. He has said that Jeffrey “confessed” to having sex with underage girls some years before the case in Florida, but he didn’t run to the phone and report this to the DAs.
I don’t care if Don had oral sex with Bill. It’s a distraction.
Age of consent is a moot point with Don Dong. He didn’t get E. Jean Carol’s consent. He didn’t get Stormy Daniels consent, though arguably her acquiescence. He didn’t get the consent of many of the women who have emerged as having been sexually assaulted by Don. Some of them were too young to give their consent legally, but some of them were old enough. Did he seek their consent? Not likely.
He assumes it is his right as a man, particularly a rich man.
By the way, Marjorie Taylor Green says she has received threats for demanding the release of the Epstein papers. She blames Don Dong. I suspect with good reason. Per some reports, she’s mad at him because he wouldn’t let her run for a Senate seat.
This whole discussion about sex with a 15 year old not being as bad as sex with a 5 year old is kind of like arguing that murdering a 95 year old is “not as bad” as murdering a 35 year old. After all, the 95 year old has lived a full life and probably doesn’t have many years left but the 30-something has much potential remaining. Right? Right??
But none of this should be surprising. To anyone who has followed her, Megyn Kelly has proven to be a craven opportunist.
As Charlie Pierce would say, “Jesus, these really are the mole people.”
Shortly we are going to learn conclusively whether the congressional ‘pugs are slimy, perverse, unprincipled, totally corrupt shit-weasels, as we already know Trump to be, or whether there is still a piece of honesty, principle, and dignity amongst at least a few of them.
I, for one, will be shocked to learn if there are some.
“Hebephile” is actually the correct term. It doesn’t make it any better, it’s still slimy AF.
I read a comment on a YT video that “bubba” is a term for very young boys. That may be what they meant.
Fake news, courtesy of yet another blonde white lady. It’s clear she is a rapist supporting cult member.
If it wasn’t a fact that the sex trafficking pedophiles best buddy is also a client, he wouldn’t be doing everything in his power to prevent releasing the files.
I am sickened by her goal-post moving comments about 5 year olds and 10 year olds, as if there is a gray area where it’s not rape if they’ve entered puberty.
Absolutely disgusting.
Even if Epstein’s victims were all 18 at the time, he’d still be a pimp and a sex trafficker.
‘Can’t Be Serious’: Trump Official Roasted for Bizarre Take That Migrants Bringing Cattle With Them Are to Blame for Higher Beef Prices
I think it makes a difference in terms of management and recovery; the more details you understand about your own triggers and cravings, the easier it is to work on them and avoid any situations that might encourage creepy behavior on your part. It may also be significant from a research perspective because, for instance, one group of -philes might be more influenced by societal attitudes toward kids than another.
But yes, ranking various paraphilias in terms of inherent evilness or grossness or something is useless at best and misleading at worse. The majority of convicted child sex abusers don’t test out as pedophiles, and presumably target children only because children make easy victims. Does that make them “better” than the pedophilic offenders? When Roy Moore was creeping on 14 year olds at the mall, was that more acceptable because he planned to marry them? Of course not. Conservatives keep focusing on the “pervert or not?” question while minimizing the actual harm done to the victims.
What’s with all of this “Bubba” nonsense? People might be reading too much into this. When/where I grew up, “Bubba” was a generic name for any random guy who wasn’t very bright (particularly one who was physically large and lived on the outskirts of town).
@4. raven : I wonder how well or otherwise Vance and Miller get on? Rivals? Compeditors? Allies? Collaboraters? Whatever it is, wonder how long it will continue to be the case?
We currently have shadow POTUS Miller pulling the demented puppet’s strings..
I think almost anyone else would be an improvement.
OTOH, Vance is relatively mentally competent vs Trump , younger and theroretically next in line to be dictator when Trump goes.
Yuk. What awful options. Think I’d fractionally prefer Vance to Miller running the show still.
Prax, I entirely endorse what you wrote.
Then there is this academic value-free type of take, where the conceptual difference between predilection and desire is contrasted with actual deeds; eg. https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-83135-5_13
↓
Clinical Versus Criminal Pedophilia: An Extended Review of Theory, Assessment, Diagnosis, and Intervention
First Online: 13 April 2025
Abstract
This chapter gives a comprehensive, evidence-based, and pragmatic overview of forensic and clinical aspects of pedophilia and pedophilic disorder. Strengths and difficulties in the current diagnostic criteria are identified, and the clear overlap with hebephilia is described. The difference between pedophilia and child sexual abuse is explained. Comorbid conditions are considered and the etiology of pedophilia is explored with a conclusion that there are likely two primary pathways to developing pedophilic and hebephilic interests. The presence of pedophilia in adolescents and females is discussed and a range of typological frameworks and behavioral rating scales are provided to assist researchers and practitioners in identifying sexual offenders with a preferential pedophilic interest. Approaches to assessment, risk assessment, treatment, and management are also discussed.
—
Which is fine, but then I think of the example from Peter Watt’s Rifters Trilogy by Peter Watts (Wikipedia) where Achilles Desjardins is a sexual sadist whose violent urges are societally tolerated if they remain confined to virtual simulations (he’s a really good psychologist within the corporate-military infrastructure of the setting), but of course what’s inevitable happens. And it’s very nasty.
(One day, he wants the real thing and indulges himself, to be plain)
—
It is fictional, but it’s awfully plausible, no?
(Won’t go into the paradox of tolerance, but I know of it)
When Vance takes over, it will be Thiel pulling the strings. Only the puppetmaster will change.
As for “Bubba,” this is obviously a reference to adrenochrome addict Tom Hanks (or possibly Gary Sinise, who’s a Reaganite winger). See Forrest Gump and its “Bubba Gump Shrimp” enterprise.
/s
@ ^ Thiel or Miller as the USoA’s Shadow POTUS? Hmm. Truly terrible choices either way.
Makes choosing between Kamala or even Biden vs Trump look easy doesn’t it? (Becoz it was – or should ‘ve been.)
As for “Bubba” well, there’s numerous possibities :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubba_(disambiguation)
Including others not listed there too eg. apparently a horses name as well. But we just don’t really know yet do we?
@ ^ Well, this comment :
https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2025/11/14/i-expect-this-to-be-the-official-excuse-soon/comment-page-1/#comment-2284240
Was actually meant to go here when I posted it.. on what I now realise was the wrong thread. D’oh!
Because the Catholic Church is such a paragon of virtue when it comes to child abuse, the execrable Bill Donohue just couldn’t resist defending Megyn Kelly: https://www.catholicleague.org/megyn-kelly-is-right-about-epstein/#
submoron #5
The British one you mean. The American ones don’t spell it with an “a”.
I am not afraid of a Vance presidency because I done with underestimating how slimy the malignant narcissist is. By now, the files may already be scrubbed of evidence pointing to the MN. I suspect that corrupt DOJ will intervene and say the files cannot be released because of their new “investigation” of Dem involvement. And there is always the Senate to deal with.
I just do not believe we will be seeing the full, unscrubbed Epstein evidence.
A pedometer is a device for counting child sexual abusers.
Virginia Giuffre was 17. Presumably able to consent. But the conversation did not go, “so would you like to come to Epstein Island and get fucked by Prince Andrew? No. Oh, sorry about that then, cu later”.
It went, “you’re coming to Epstein Island to fuck Prince Andrew, would be a shame if something happened to your parents”.
This is not about age of consent, it’s about coercion, about “No” not being an option. But I do find it revealing how many of these people are making the “15 is not so bad” argument now, something very rotten deep inside.
tedw @27: That might be my fault, I woke the evil spirit by naming it. Sorry…
But (a little) more seriously, I can’t believe that old stupid hater would go near this issue at all. Why would he think it necessary to remind us all of his own depravity by jumping up to defend child-rape-apologists outside his Church? Is he that desperate to show he’s still relevant?
And the next question is: what will that “paragon of virtue” say about him? He’s not actually in their hierarchy, so technically they don’t have to say anything about him, but it would be nice if someone in the Vat could say something to the effect of “this guy does not speak for the Church in any official capacity.” Or better yet, “the Church does not condone any of the abusive acts alleged here, or the excuses being made for them.” But they most likely won’t, and BillDo knows it, so he knows he can say whatever he wants with no meaningful push-back.
John Morales @23,
Yep. And from a recovery perspective, I think that fantasizing about unacceptable behavior is usually more risky than helpful for someone who’s struggling with self-control in that area. Like, if you have/had a drinking problem, you probably don’t want to cover your bedroom walls with posters of liquor ads, you know? That’s just asking for trouble. I understand the argument that giving people a safe virtual/simulated outlet might decrease the urge to actually offend, but…I dunno, that feels more like Freudianism than current psychology. Hydraulic model of the emotions and all that. I’m open to counter-evidence, though.
I’m not aware of any decisive experimental studies on whether virtual/simulated child porn is helpful or harmful on balance–same for adult porn and violent video games, for that matter–and I have no strong opinion on whether it should be outright illegal. But personally, I had my own sexual addictions when I was younger, and indulging them virtually definitely didn’t help me recover. ‘Twas much more effective to learn to let those desires pass and fill my life with other rewarding pursuits instead.
That said, I might make an exception for adult ageplay. I have a couple of acquaintances in that community, and it seems like a healthy way of redirecting their desires toward other consenting adults and building meaningful relationships with same. (Which is not to claim that an unusual proportion of ageplay fans are pedo/hebe/ephebophiles, of course; I wouldn’t know one way or the other.)
@29. joelgrant :
I fear you are very likely correct on those points. I hope not.
Of course, the cover up itself will then be evidence of a sort and could be something that comes out later and, rightly, infuriates more people even more. .