Joanne: “We’re just concerned about the children and whether or not they are making informed decis…”
Joanne’s TERF Friends: “KILL ALL THE T—-Y FREAKS! THEY ARE MULTILATED PARODIES TO THE DIVINE FEMININE! BLASPHEMIES AGAINST THE EARTH MOTHER MOON GODDESS! THEY CORRUPT OUR YONI ENERGY WITH THEIR FILTHY, EVER-RAPING PENISES!!! RAPE! RAAAAAAAAAAAPE!!!!”
Joanne: “You see? How can anyone be opposed to that?”
Ada Christinesays
at least i can say that i’m more of a self-made woman than Joanne
estravensays
Honestly I haven’t even seen the whole thing and i’m afraid I might throw up
@1: I can’t help wondering how many of the people we now call TERFs were ever really RFs? Maybe I’m overestimating the brainpower of the (few) radical-feminists I’m (sorta) familiar with, but I can’t see that lot knowingly palling about with hardcore bigots, phallocrats and homophobes. Perhaps there’s a group of people who pretended to be rad-fems but were actually a COINTELPRO-style front/fraud created to discredit and embarrass real feminists, and who are now continuing to do their job by co-opting “feminism” in service to the bigots and fascists.
I’ve read a little bit of Mary Daly, and found some bits that were — contrary to the vegematic rhetoric of the MRAs — very sympathetic toward men and boys, and in fact tried to imagine a better world where they could grow up to be manly men without becoming toxic assholes and rapists. So maybe a few such feminists somehow had their sympathy toward men manipulated and turned toward blatantly anti-feminist causes. That’s just an uninformed guess…
submoronsays
…and the pig got up and slowly walked away.
Rob Grigjanissays
Raging Bee @4:
Maybe I’m overestimating the brainpower of the (few) radical-feminists I’m (sorta) familiar with…
I think brainpower is beside the point. Very smart people can also become attached to a rigid ideology. Shit, very smart people can create rigid ideologies. It’s blinkers all the way down.
Also, Mary Daly was a transphobe. Doing admirable work in some areas doesn’t mean one can’t be a complete hateful dumbass in others.
I also remember hearing about a branch of radical feminism called “difference feminism,” which (IIRC) held that women are so different from men, in so many significant ways, that they should in fact be treated differently, not as equals. Which very neatly dovetails with the old-time gender-essentialism underlying old-school prescribed (enforced) gender roles. So I could easily see how that kind of “feminist” would have no problem siding with bigots and misogynists against ANYONE, trans or not, who didn’t fit into their neat little essentialist categories.
microraptorsays
A lot of modern TERFs have no actual interest in feminism, radical or otherwise. It’s pretty easy to see, given how quickly they’ll form alliances with the most anti-feminist conservative groups around.
numerobissays
Wait, you mean the bigots are allied with the fascists?
I’m shocked, shocked.
KGsays
That video is an excellent source! Thanks Sean, and thanks PZ.
soul_biscuitsays
The video’s creator is Shaun, not Sean. He has a great YouTube channel.
ravensays
I also remember hearing about a branch of radical feminism called “difference feminism,” which (IIRC) held that women are so different from men, in so many significant ways, that they should in fact be treated differently, not as equals.
What the hell???
That is what the Afghan Taliban, the Iranian Mullahs, and the US fundie xians say.
When you find yourself on the side of groups like that, it is a sign that you might want to reevaluate your ideas.
Among many things wrong with the idea is that it lumps all women together as exactly the same which is wrong. All women aren’t the same and neither are all men.
People should be treated equally and as individuals.
That is actually what the laws in the USA say.
ANBsays
OT, but only sort of. What is it about people speaking out about things they know nothing about as if they did know something?
To Rowling’s defence, none of her friends actually wear armbands with fascist insignia. And they did not spell out Zyklon-B in regard to “reduce the numbers”. Presumably they just mean more benign treatment, like internment on Haifishinsel, at German Southwest Africa.
Joanne: “We’re just concerned about the children and whether or not they are making informed decis…”
Joanne’s TERF Friends: “KILL ALL THE T—-Y FREAKS! THEY ARE MULTILATED PARODIES TO THE DIVINE FEMININE! BLASPHEMIES AGAINST THE EARTH MOTHER MOON GODDESS! THEY CORRUPT OUR YONI ENERGY WITH THEIR FILTHY, EVER-RAPING PENISES!!! RAPE! RAAAAAAAAAAAPE!!!!”
Joanne: “You see? How can anyone be opposed to that?”
at least i can say that i’m more of a self-made woman than Joanne
Honestly I haven’t even seen the whole thing and i’m afraid I might throw up
@1: I can’t help wondering how many of the people we now call TERFs were ever really RFs? Maybe I’m overestimating the brainpower of the (few) radical-feminists I’m (sorta) familiar with, but I can’t see that lot knowingly palling about with hardcore bigots, phallocrats and homophobes. Perhaps there’s a group of people who pretended to be rad-fems but were actually a COINTELPRO-style front/fraud created to discredit and embarrass real feminists, and who are now continuing to do their job by co-opting “feminism” in service to the bigots and fascists.
I’ve read a little bit of Mary Daly, and found some bits that were — contrary to the vegematic rhetoric of the MRAs — very sympathetic toward men and boys, and in fact tried to imagine a better world where they could grow up to be manly men without becoming toxic assholes and rapists. So maybe a few such feminists somehow had their sympathy toward men manipulated and turned toward blatantly anti-feminist causes. That’s just an uninformed guess…
…and the pig got up and slowly walked away.
Raging Bee @4:
I think brainpower is beside the point. Very smart people can also become attached to a rigid ideology. Shit, very smart people can create rigid ideologies. It’s blinkers all the way down.
Also, Mary Daly was a transphobe. Doing admirable work in some areas doesn’t mean one can’t be a complete hateful dumbass in others.
Rob: Agreed.
I also remember hearing about a branch of radical feminism called “difference feminism,” which (IIRC) held that women are so different from men, in so many significant ways, that they should in fact be treated differently, not as equals. Which very neatly dovetails with the old-time gender-essentialism underlying old-school prescribed (enforced) gender roles. So I could easily see how that kind of “feminist” would have no problem siding with bigots and misogynists against ANYONE, trans or not, who didn’t fit into their neat little essentialist categories.
A lot of modern TERFs have no actual interest in feminism, radical or otherwise. It’s pretty easy to see, given how quickly they’ll form alliances with the most anti-feminist conservative groups around.
Wait, you mean the bigots are allied with the fascists?
I’m shocked, shocked.
That video is an excellent source! Thanks Sean, and thanks PZ.
The video’s creator is Shaun, not Sean. He has a great YouTube channel.
What the hell???
That is what the Afghan Taliban, the Iranian Mullahs, and the US fundie xians say.
When you find yourself on the side of groups like that, it is a sign that you might want to reevaluate your ideas.
Among many things wrong with the idea is that it lumps all women together as exactly the same which is wrong. All women aren’t the same and neither are all men.
People should be treated equally and as individuals.
That is actually what the laws in the USA say.
OT, but only sort of. What is it about people speaking out about things they know nothing about as if they did know something?
More bloviations from Jordan P.
https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/africa-is-not-poor-because-of-colonization
Great video. Thanks Shaun and PZ.
To Rowling’s defence, none of her friends actually wear armbands with fascist insignia. And they did not spell out Zyklon-B in regard to “reduce the numbers”. Presumably they just mean more benign treatment, like internment on Haifishinsel, at German Southwest Africa.