I can sort of sympathize: here’s a Christian pastor who’s trying to be relevant and a little bit progressive, and actually make real life issues, like sex, part of his church. And then, splat, look at this pratfall.
"On one side, (we’ll have) what men want or desire: your stripper pole, your video games, your sports," Scruggs said. "The woman’s side (is) orderly, neat. It’s all about love, candy, teddy bears, roses and being wined and dined and cherished."
This is what we call not really getting it. He’s dimly aware of a problem, but thinks the answer involves pushing stereotypes harder.
I don’t sympathize with him at all–though I do agree with you that he seems “dimly aware of the problem”. This is just another example of a religious figure further separating men and women. The divisiveness that this type of behavior causes is such a huge problem in our society. Sexism is a very real problem and sermons like this jackwagon’s do nothing more than propagate those feelings.
*barf**ladylike barfing*Clearly he’s never seen my house.
It’s okay though, his mother approves.
Wait a second, let’s not be too hasty to condemn this guy. He might be onto something here. Tell me, will there be book, beer and bacon on this Man Side?
Wait. forget I said anything. Douchebaggins done fucked up. And it would have been so good too…
Louis
^BookS. Plural!
I am aware the fundies have BOOK. They need to expand beyond the one.
Louis
The Good Reverend reminds us that there are in fact two kinds of people. Those that think that there are two kinds of people and those that understand that there are, in fact, seven billion different kinds of people.
It’s like he went out of his way to feed into stereotypes. It should be blatantly obvious that both women and men like video games, candy, love, wining, and dining. It’s like he went into this already decided that he needed to make an artificial distinction between men and women, and then slapped whatever he could on one side or the other in order to support those stereotypes without any regard for whether one sex actually preferred the thing/activity more than the other sex. Sort of like the racist stereotypes about black people liking grape soda and fried chicken. Because obviously only black people love all that delicious shit more than every other racial group, right?
Obvious sexism aside…
I’m always kind of creeped out by relationship advice than hinges on treating those relationships like antagonistic struggles between two people whose interests, desires, and goals are fundamentally at odds. I mean, really – If that hits home, you should be revisiting your options.
But I guess that’s what you can get when you put someone with no actual counseling credentials in the position of thinking they have a God-given calling to fix other people’s marriages.
FIFY, PZ
His kind of “thinking” is a consequence of believing that the Bible Bogey created man & woman as described in Genesis.
Wait, wait, wait…you’re telling me it’s the stripper pole that men “want or desire”? Silly me, I always thought it was the strippers.
Well, next time I want to get my boyfriend in the mood, I guess I’ll just let him stare at a pole for a while…
So how’s this work again? If the women are in the caring, neat,
orderly women’s side, and the men are partying it up in their
area (with the stripper pole), who is doing the stripping?
And he doesn’t even have the excuse of being Southron…
I don’t want a stripper pole. I want those ribbons they suspend from the ceiling, preferably spaced a few feet apart, so that I can brachiate to the fridge and back. That’s what I think about when I’m lying on the couch, playing my video games.
That’ll work if he’s the visually stimulated type. Otherwise, you migh have to encourage him to touch his pole a bit.
I wonder if he thinks the strippers are actually polishing that pole.
I was very intrigued by the fact that the stripper pole was on the male side of the gender ghetto, isolated from the women. I suppose that Jim and Jacob are gonna give the rest of the boys a hell of a show, straddling that pole. Or maybe they just didn’t think this through…
He said men desire the stripper pole, he didn’t specify how. *nudge nudge wink wink*
I’m going to assume that, after being wined and dined, women are going to be cherished by a hunk wrapped around a stripper pole which he desired so much. Oh, and I’m expecting some chocolates with that. Teddy bear optional, unless we’re not talking about that kind of bears. *innocent look*
Oops, I noticed I’m being heteronormative in my #18. My apologies.
or mine
Soooo… what happens if you’re a man and you don’t like sports or video games or stripper poles (or strippers for that matter?) or you’re a woman and you don’t like neatness and teddy bears and dining and cooing?
Are you not a “real” man or woman? Are you an impostor? Are you inadequate and broken and need to be “fixed”? Are you a DIRTY WRETCHED SINNER DOOMED TO HELL FOR DISOBEYING ALMIGHTY GAWD!?
Inquiring minds want to know where this is going. ‘Cause that’s where it usually goes.
indeed. if I thought that how relationships worked, I’d take a vow of singledom.
It takes no effort imagining why a church might think that
all men like looking at poles.
Warning, men: strip on this pole and you may end up in the next church
powerpoint presentation.
you don’t exist. welcome to the club; it’s full of atheist nurses, double minorities, horny women, romantic guys, hard working poor people, etc.
He doesn’t think much of the men he meets, does he. Slovenly beasts ™ that they are. He’s clearly an equal opportunities insulter.
Being the first woman committed to Langley-Porter psych hospital for my addiction to strippers (thanks, friends! And I mean that sincerely), I can say that it’s not a men-only phenomenon.
I’m definitely not proud of my problem but I think, now, I gave up meth and took up dancers.
For me, I was traumatized by a past relationship in which she pushed me into a job I hated but I made crazy money. So when she dumped me? I took my crazy money into relationships I could not take home. (I did take them home, which was even more horrible–for all parties concerned, I think.) I literally bought the fantasy and paid for that, too.
One look into my horribly sexist past (and I am a woman) that I’d rather leave behind. Though the dancers I met are still some of my best friends.
that’s pretty much a given. many traditional-gender-role-defenders are misandrists, mostly by projection (i.e. they project their own failings onto the rest of men)
To be fairer to this pastor than he probably deserves, this portrayal of relationships is pretty much a staple on TV and in film*.
*In lieu of the standard warning, I’ll just link the xkcd.
Cracked.com has an article about this very kind of thing, just posted today:
The 5 Most Insulting Ways Products Are Advertised to Men.
He forgot about Strippers for Jesus!!
Speaking of TV Tropes
+1
But I don’t do stripper poles and I am neat and orderly. I’d much rather eat at a good restaurant than play a video game. I guess I won’t be welcome at the pastor’s church.
<snivel>
Teddy bears? Teddy bears? Do they have a zipper pouch in them to store the handcuffs and crops?
*laughing, gasping, rolling on the floor, pounding on the carpet with fists*
If this man could only see my living room!
*snortlegaspwheeze*
Stuffed bears are all well and good, but they are no match for Plush Cthulhu.
And I like a little video gaming with my candy, thank you very much!
–
That’s assuming they’re side by side. *cough* I’ll just leave this here…
Cartoon link
Great, Brownian, TV Tropes and Cracked.com? You don’t want any of us to get anything done today, do you?
———
I am just so fucking tired of this sexist shit. People ask me why I’m such a loud person with a very large personality. I explain that it’s to make up for being constantly told I don’t exist.
Gah, bad tagging! Imagine a close-ital after “and” and an open-ital before “just”…
Yes, I often get the feeling that this says more about them, than society. Same with the “mens bodies are icky” anti gay thing. I get the feeling there would be a lot less anti-gay sentiment if said christians weren’t told to hate their own bodies and the slightly odd things it does.
Oh FFS. The only way this would apply to me in any way is if this douchetart hires a cleaning service for me.
But doesn’t everybody want a stripper pole? Or a firehouse pole, which adds a bit of adventure?
I mean, come on, classic steampunk Victorian shiny brass.
F:
Uh huh. And just who is going to be polishing that pole? Not me, I’m a natural born slob. Seems to me the men can learn to polish the pole. I hear they’re good at that sort of thing.
You mean like in Restaurant Empire and Restaurant Empire II?
I’ve heard of this ‘getting things done’ that other people are rumoured to do. I don’t believe in such a thing, myself.
Maybe, but I think it’s simply culturally induced revulsion, much like the thought of eating insects is to most Westerners. It’s not icky because we don’t like our bodies, it’s icky because we’re told it’s icky. But maybe you have a point. Is homophobia less in places where people don’t have such a fear of the naked human body? Such as everywhere in the West that is not English-speaking North America?
Just one? No. Add a few more so that I can brachiate, and maybe a few crossbeams so it’s like a jungle gym, and we’ll talk.
I remember sliding down poles on playgrounds in my youth. There may be no faster way to remove all the skin from one’s forearms, but is that really such a necessary thing?
Only if it turns me into Batman when I slide down.
I want a ball pool!
The two messiest houses I know are owned by women. It seems to be a cat thing.
I was going to comment that my house was tidy in deference to all these wonderfully messy women, but then I realised there was only one chair left that didn’t have clothes waiting to be ironed on it… and only because I ran out of washed clothes to drape across the furniture.
Video game nerds (a term of endearment as I am one myself) appear to be far worse than pastors… http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4363776723?page=1
Rife with MRA, reverse sexism, bigotry etc.
I still play on the fire pole at playgrounds, having one in the house would be totally awesome.
Women are from Venus and men are from Mars, doncha know? I can’t believe I took that seriously once…
Sexist stereotypes, meanwhile, are from Uranus.
It gets even worse if you unpack it just a little more (but do it over the sink so it doesn’t get all over the floor; we women are neat and orderly, after all), and you realise that just about everything he thinks women like could equally appear on the “like” list of a small child. Apparently aside from hitting the drinking age, women stop developing our tastes and preferences at around age four.
I just hired a cleaning person, who is actually a neat, orderly woman, and damned if I know how she does it…
Why, I’ve heard that it…comes naturally.
*wiggling eyebrows suggestively*
–
WIN
–
Louis @6
–I don’t think fundies would define ‘expand’ the way you do. They would just tweak a passage or two and put out a new edition (one day I hope a new edition will cite primary source materials or at least a disclaimer at the beginning saying “the following collection of books is the opinion of the various authors. Precious little material has been verified. Any advice on science or morality found herein should be taken with a grain of salt.”
_______________________________________________________
anteprepro @8:
–Don’t forget grape ‘drink’ (umbrella term for kool-aid; not sure why it’s not just called kool-aid), chitterlings (damn those things stink!), and watermelon.
I wonder if the good reverend will break each group down according to further stereotypes.
________________________________________________________
Mak @21:
–Good point.
What does he do with the men and women that only like one of the three? Do they get divided into further groups?
I won’t even ask what he does with the gay men and lesbians.
________________________________________________________
Jadehawk @24:
–C’mon. No one believes that the 99% don’t exist…they just don’t matter or deserve protection from discrimination. Sadly, that’s probably an opinion held by far too many.
Oh yeah.
Cherish me.
Cherish me.
Cherish me harder.
Oh, yes.
Yes.
YES.
OH YES!
AHHAAAHHHAHHEEEEOOOOOOAAaaahhheeeeee… -AH!!!!!!!!.
…
…
…
Oh, yes. That was good. Well done. Teddy bears and fucking rainbows.
(^_^)
I hate sports, strip clubs, teddy bears, lovey-dovey crap – basically everything on his list. Does that make me completely neuter?
‘Tis Himself @33:
–Don’t be sad. There are plenty of wonderful welcoming churches that would love to have a Pharyngula regular as a member of their congregation…
__________________________________________________
Caine @42:
–Not anymore. Men did do that before they found out about the whole hair on your hands thing. Since then, there are increasingly fewer males who know how to properly perform pole polishing. Thankfully I’m part of that crowd (I get to be part of *some* majority–yippee!).
__________________________________________________
Brownian @43:
–That might be a part of the problem. I think a huge component is the religious factor. The religious approach to sex and the human body is wrong headed on so many levels, yet it’s the approach that many people (at least here in the US) are accustomed to. Even those of us that aren’t religious are affected by the poor persecuted xian religion. Even progressive believers who take the bible metaphorically get caught up in the trap of xian religious attitudes toward sex and the human body.
We have to completely re-invent our approach to the human body and then *that* new approach has to catch on (the first time I realized this was during the Super Bowl ‘wardrobe malfunction’ with Justin Timberlake and Janet Jackson; I thought it was ridiculous that *anyone* got in a tizzy over something as natural as a breast; that’s like getting mad that someone showed their leg or their left ear; I was even more irritated because the level of violence in football is overlooked, yet people got offended at a breast)
What, no wine on the men’s side? I don’t think this system is going to work for me…
Personally I wouldn’t have said “not really getting it”, I would have said “really not getting it.”
erasure is a real thing, and the only way these kinds of worldviews can be maintained.
C’mere, Daniel Schealler. **snaps latex gloves** You want to be cherished with teddy bears? I’ll cherish you with a teddy bear.
(That link is NSFW, btw.)
Ridiculous. I hardly watch any sports.
Says a lot about this pastor that he thinks all men are pigs inside, doesn’t it? And that all women are prigs.
seditiosus:
–Screw that system. Me likes a nice Shiraz or Pinot Noir!
Tony (at #62)
Me too.
what if you’re a guy who doesn’t like stripper poles or sports ?
Does that mean you’re really a woman ? or just a bad christian and a terrible sinner who’s going to roast in hell ?
DLC:
That makes you a bad christian person who’s going to roast in hell.
Y’know, is there anything you can’t be sent to hell for? It seems like almost every road leads to hell.
Pastor (Scruggs) encouraging congregation to have more sex
http://www.fox19.com/story/17293330/pastor-encouraging-congregation-to-have-more-sex
‘m glad that Pastor Scruggs is addressing topics such as sex and drugs …but…but… how effective will you be if you only understand the world in gender stereotypes?
From the church’s website. http://www.lowcincy.org/ministries/
Platoon Men’s Ministry
Join the fight.
By definition, a platoon is a subdivision of a larger military unit or a group of persons sharing a common characteristic or activity. Our mission is to help men grow closer to God, mature in their relationship with Christ, and to become Godly leaders in the home, workplace and community. We plan on accomplishing this great task by providing men with resources, connections and accountability to meet our goal.
“As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.” Prov. 27:17
Women of Wisdom
A place of insight for women.
Women of Wisdom teaches, encourages, equips and empowers women to grow spiritually. We desire not only for our women to be blessed, but to BE a blessing as well. This ministry is tailored with a variety of activities designed for women ages 13 and up.
“There are many virtuous and capable women in the world, but you surpass them all!” Prov. 31:29
10 minutes ago · Like
“He’s dimly aware of a problem, but thinks the answer involves pushing stereotypes HARDER.”
Obviously this deep-thinker has invested several hours of hard thought to ensure that he is not out of touch with the realities of what real people in the real world really think. We shan’t catch THAT guy with his pants down, that’s for sure. After all, if he has to speak in a regularly scheduled public forum, its a damned good thing he done his homework and studied the issue sufficiently to master the most popular stereotypes. That way his congregation will find nothing amiss, and by his performance add to his reputation as an authority. Why, they might even regard him to be equally well equipped to handle any OTHER question of ethics or morality they may need his expertise on. Surely nobody can criticize THAT pastor for being out of touch with the commoner peoples, way yonder up there atop some academical theological tower. Nuh uh. THIS guy is not above writhing around in the mud and mire of those his livelihood depends on. What a swell, regular, no nonsense sort of guy he must be.
Anyone else thinking of Xander Harris from “Buffy”?
“Men like sports. Men watch the action movie, they eat of the beef, and they enjoy to look at the bosoms. A thousand years of avenging our wrongs, and that’s all you’ve learned?”
The logical contradiction is…. illogical!
If it is all about “love, candy, teddy bears, roses and being wined and dined and cherished.” for the ladies…where do they fit in the pole dancing in their neat and orderly lives ?…and where precisely do the bloody teddy bears fit in to this bizzaro’ world?…curious minds wish to know!
Typical church goose. Preens as progressively muscular, but turns out to be a mere stripling.
Poles do nothing but take up room that could be occupied by a big table to run D&D games on. Teddy bears might be one of the most useless items you can give an adult. They do nothing but fall off the bed, and take up shelf space that could be used for mind-stimulating books. Even the most ardent ursophile must eventually say “No more teddies!”, cutting the gifting options down to three. Or better, a range of options that she likes instead of what some bloody pastor thinks.
Mostly, I’m upset about PZ using my head without my permission. Also, too, chix are more than “rubber stoppers”…or so I’m told
*Stares at her messy desk and room, stares at her impressive pile of video games, stares at her geek clothes* WTF what? Yea sure. I don’t fucking have time for men and being neat and orderly, I have games to play.
Well, it clearly shows that his kind doesn’t date much, doesn’t it.
Sounds like a guy who doesn’t get out much.
What if you like some sports sometimes as an idle diversion (and actively cheer for a couple teams), play video games (usually old ones) once in a while, and have an appreciation for the aesthetics (yeah, and prurient interest) of a striptease, but are uncomfortable with how strippers are treated in society?
I must triply not exist. But I’m used to that.
Don’t be silly, the ones doing the pole dancing aren’t really ladies!! They’re just busty, busty disposable objects for the good christian menz to gawp at between xboxing. The good christian ladies on the ladies side are too busy cooing over teddy bears and being pure and not having any sexual desire except the desire to trade sex for roses and fancy restaurant meals.
Does this pastor live in a bad sitcom?
Sing it!
:)
–
Montanto, fundies don’t really get out much outside of their little cultural bubbles.
What is sport?