Yep, another Florida county approves a goofy anti-science resolution. From their minutes:
Approval of the Resolution Urging State Board of Education to Direct Florida Department of Education to Revise the New Sunshine State Standards for Science Such That Evolution is Not Presented as Fact.
Texas really has some competition now in the category of most pig-ignorant state in the country.
“Such That Evolution is Not Presented as Fact”? Are they even trying to hide their religious motivations? Or do they honestly not understand what a ridiculous statement that is?
Well, at least they thought about it in depth:
http://www.perefound.org/chimp.jpeg
I’ve just updated that blog post, PZ. I found out about the Baker County resolution through a newspaper education blog. But I’ve since been toying with search terms in Google and Yahoo and managed to uncover a third county: Holmes County.
Some of these resolution are sounding awfully familiar now. Do you think there is template out there somewhere that everyone is copying from?
“Some of these resolution are sounding awfully familiar now. Do you think there is template out there somewhere that everyone is copying from?”
What, you never heard of the Bible? Seriously, some people,,,
I love that you use Comic Sans to represent the ID folks’ expressions. It fits perfectly.
To save the patient I think it is now time to cut off America’s wang. Quick, before we all start thinking with it!
“Approval of the Resolution Urging State Board of Education to Direct Florida Department of Education to Revise the New Sunshine State Standards for Science Such That Evolution is Not Presented as Fact.”
Wait we might be able to work with this. It could be presented as an explanation of Facts. Since thats what a theory usually is, is it not?
There is a silver lining, though. We who are stuck in Kansas are relieved that someone has stepped in to take the attention away from us!
Who cares what Floridians think anyway? Hell, their votes don’t even count in presidential elections.
Milo, I would say at least we don’t have a creationist museum like Kentucky but then I remember Hovind and just become depressed. I love living in Florida…No nevermind I hate it here.
Too f*ing wonderful.
We have needed a second trial in order to move up in the federal courts. Now we need someone to clean up the Supreme Court. 4 years could do it.
you know, i just finished watching Hitchhiker’s Guide again, and I’m convinced that these creobots were raised on Vogsphere, where they were exposed while they were growing up to giant flyswatters that pop up from the ground and whack them whenever they have a thought or idea that makes sense.
such operant conditioning of course leaving them entirely devoid of rational thought.
Come to think of it, Evolution isn’t a “fact” but Speciation has rock-hard evidence. “evolution” is an interpretation of the evidence both fossil and living. “Special Creation” theory attempted to interpret the evidence as did “inheritance of acquired characteristics”. The Darwin/ Wallace theory was a latecomer with natural and sexual selection. It is the most economical and useful explanation. The creos are crazies who busily deny biology and physics with their crazy dating schemes. Bad enough? These political attempts of the IDiot stripe display the intention to enforce a version of Special Creation by hijacking governance. They are terrorists.
Wait…
You mean the two states that had Bushes as governors have morons arguing against teaching evolution?
The hell you say…
To save the patient I think it is now time to cut off America’s wang.
Posted by: Eric Paulsen
With enough sea level rise they’ll all be forced into the swamps… or up into Georgia.
“”evolution” is an interpretation of the evidence both fossil and living. “Special Creation” theory attempted to interpret the evidence as did “inheritance of acquired characteristics”.”
“Special Creation” and “Inheritance of acquired characteristics” are not, and have never been scientific theories. They were ideas,..notions, examples in abstract thought maybe, but never theories….
Oh yeah, and evolution IS a “fact,”… the accumulation of tested ideas/data on how is “Theory”
Man, I hate to see this. I live in North Florida (which is, paradoxically, the southern part of the state), and it is such a beautiful place despite the inhabitants. To be fair, I hate the ignorant rednecks, but really hate the northerners who spend their lives bitching about the heat and humidity, so I hate about 99.9999% of my neighbors. Perry, by the way, is the city where a visiting black city-commissioner (I believe, it was in 2001, and I can’t find any articles other than those that mention it tangentially) stopped to get a drink and was told by the bar owner that coloreds have to sit in the back room. While I wish I could claim that Baker County is the exception, most rural areas of Florida are frighteningly similar.
Lets be clear here. Evolution IS a fact.
So long as you have change in the frequency of alleles over time within a population (i.e. due to death and reproduction), then evolution is simply a shorthand way of saying ‘change’.
Even the most religious person cannot argue that the dinosaurs have not become extinct, thus dinosaur alleles are now less frequent (and that applies to every extinct species). Therefore there has been a change in the frequency of alleles within the population of the earths organisms – evolution.
The ‘Theory of Evolution’ on the other hand is not a ‘fact’ – it is a model for understanding the mechanism behind the fact that evolution has taken place, much the same way that the ‘theory of gravity’ is not regarded as a fact (although gravity itself is undoubtedly a fact).
If someone says “Evolution is not a fact” it simply means they don’t understand what they are talking about.
The creationists are just narrowing their focus as the courts have taken away most of their options. They can’t get creationism into the classroom, they can’t get evolution taken out of the classroom, they can’t get their watered-down version of creationism, ID, taught so now they’re trying to water down evolution. It’s ultimately the same goal, they’re just trying all the different angles as one door after another closes to them.
I’m not really sure where they can go once this fails.
#18
ARE Dinosaur alleles less frequent? Really?
There are an awful lot of birds out there …….
that’s, what, three counties now?
one the con side, i’m really ashamed to be a floridian now. on the pro side, maybe when we get an evolution trial i can go.
I do, it is called a coup. Sort of like what happened in Florida two presidential elections ago. Only they got distracted and Supreme Court Judges don’t just die to order you know. Yet.
Or there is the Musharraf technique put the judges who disagree with you in jail.
In reality, historically, evolution (perhaps distinguishable by lower case) is a fact. It was the name given to the fact of the fossil record long before there was a scientific theory to explain it. The Theory Of Evolution By Natural Selection (or whatever word variations exist on that) was the only successful (scientific) theory to explain the facts. Very successful.
Creationism (of all the kinds known / made up by humans, especially biblical) was what the bare facts in the rock already utterly ruled out of contention. Even if creationism had ever been science it would still have been known to be false once fossils were found disproving it.
#20
“ARE Dinosaur alleles less frequent? Really?
There are an awful lot of birds out there …….”
I think the best current model for bird evolution suggests that birds evolved from one subgroup of dinosaurs. Thus, even if there was no change in alleles since then (!), the frequency of alleles of the other types of dinosaurs that were non ancestral to the birds (sauropods etc) are clearly diminished.
“That Evolution is Not Presented as Fact.”
#18 “Evolution IS a fact.”
actually, what does this mean ? I may be dumb, but I don’t understand neither of these two assertions.
Let’s try something more precise :
Proposition :
“once life arose on this planet, it evolved through natural processes as described by the theory of Evolution (eg natural selection,…), and enabled over the course of time all of the biological diversity as seen today. No special supernatural intervention was required to explain this biodiversity.”
Question : is this a fact ?
I would say, that this proposition is supported by many observations and facts, it is the only one that has explanatory capabilities and, it is the only one that is scientifically valid (ie science has not found a biological entity which cannot have been produced this way, apart, of course, from the first live replicators).
Have I mentioned lately how happy I was to get the heck out of Florida? My new home state may have its problems, but at least I’m not subjected to blaring religious music every time I get on a bus or step into a restaurant.
I don’t know about Holmes and Baker counties, but Taylor holds the distinction of having one of the highest countywide infant mortality rates amongst minorities in the country (33.3 per 1,000 live births for non-Caucasians vs. 0.0 per 1,000 for Caucasians). “Voluntary” racial segregation is still practiced in Perry, the county seat, too.
Meh. More here.
I think the alligators and mosquitoes were doing a better job with Florida than humans have done.
“25
Scientist must take a positive stand on this issue if we are going to have a real effect on public understanding and opinion of this matter.
Probably this local council board, when they say “evolution”, actually mean “the theory of evolution by natural selection, genetic drift and other natural mechanisms” (the ‘sciencey’ theory).
Their words, however, mix up the theory of the mechanism of change with the actual factual evidence of change having taken place in the past and continuing to occur in the present.
We need to be clear that there is a distinction between the two things. Look at the following (out of date, I know) video of Carl Sagan on this matter.
Sigmund,
ok, but the ToE is not a fact either. What is a fact, however, is that the ToE is the only scientifically valid theory that can explain the biodiversity observed on this planet. As such, it is the only theory that should be explained in Science class.
Carl Sagan says, “evolution is a fact, it really happened…”. But that is not the issue of our time (only maybe for those who deny evolution alltogether, like YEC and some other lunatics).
The issue now, is, wether there are other scientifically valid theories that should be explained in schools (ie Intelligent Design).
And the answer to that one is simply, no.
The issue at hand here, is the following : who decides what is a scientifically valid theory to be taught in public schools, in science class.
Should a school board have the liberty to decide upon this ?
But the answer is the same for any other discipline. Should a school board have the liberty to change the rules of football ?
It is very important, in my opinion, to stress that it is up to the scientific community (in this case Biologists, Anthropologists, Geologists, etc…) to decide what is a scientifically valid theory. It has efficient means to do this, and it has done this many times in the past. If lay people don’t understand that point, it should be explained, over and over again.
negentropyeater,
Quite frankly I wonder why we need to be specific about evolution in the first place when we discuss what should and should not be taught in classrooms.
Shouldn’t a simple requirement to teach the currently understood consensus models for each subject – and refer to the national expert board of the particular subject (for instance the NAS in the US)- be enough to ensure that evolution would be taught? Any effort by a school board or agency to teach another theory would then need to clear the hurdle of the nationally agreed consensus model and thus they would have a different fight on their hands that would specifically involve other subjects, professionals of whom would not want the quality of their subject lowered by the teaching of ‘alternative’ theories.
fact, a piece of information presented as having objective reality.
Etymology:
Latin factum, from neuter of factus, past participle of facere
Commenting from vague memory here, facere (to do or to make) in latin.
Evolution is the process that produces (does,makes) incremental change in biological entities.
The previous statement, I believe, can be construed as a piece of information that describes objective reality. Therfore evolutionIS A FACT . QED!
Pig latin ignorant Florida resident here.
Fernando,
“Evolution is the process that produces (does,makes) incremental change in biological entities.
The previous statement, I believe, can be construed as a piece of information that describes objective reality. Therefore evolution IS A FACT.”
But that is precisely the tree hiding the forest. The ID fans are not diputing this. They are asserting that other, non natural processes, must have taken place, in order to explain the biodiversity observed today. And they believe they have scientific evidence for it.
And this is precisely the point, there is none such evidence.
If a scientist, one day, finds clear scientific evidence of a biological entity (other than the first live replicators) that cannot have been produced by the processes as described by the ToE, then this guy will get a Nobel Prize, it will make headline news, the whole world will be talking about it, and it will be explained (if it is sufficiently significant a discovery) in science class.
negentropyeater,
The Nobel Prize point is useful here. IF you made such a discovery as you mentioned above you would not get the nobel prize immediately. The discovery would need to be verified and confirmed by numerous follow-up studies. Only then will it become part of the consensus view of the topic and be eligible for the prize. Without the evidence provided by these follow-up studies then it wouldn’t be considered validated. This is the reason why Nobel prizes are usually awarded decades after the discovery has been made.
and as far as I know, Michael Behe is not on the list…. even in decades.
negentropyeater, My bad, I hadn’t had my coffee yet! It’s just that I don’t even consider the plausibility of non natural processes being involved when I think of the TOE, I do realize however that others may think that there are elves and faeries
with pixie dust and little pots of gold wandering around incrementing change in the world. Especially in Florida, Sigh!
The more fundamental question, is, for me, what has happened to a society where some lay people, sitting somewhere in a school board, can decide, or think they may decide, what is a scientifically valid theory.
A lot has to be said about this, but this is clear evidence of how television and the media has infantilized society to a point where anybody thinks they can be whatever they want.
Ode to atheism, to be sung to the tune of PepsiCola hits the spot.
“Atheism hits the spot,
Three apostles, that’s a lot,
P.Z. Chris and Dickie too,
Atheism is the one for you.”
I love it so!
Since you mention Florida, here’s a little bit of humor I picked up on the road between Panama City, FL and Dothan, AL.
http://richmanwisco.blogspot.com/
Ugh, not another one! I am ashamed to live here now. The good news I guess is that these counties are all rural backwoods counties.
The fight continues.
In good news, the SC Board of Education voted yesterday to keep the Miller/Levine Biology text despite the newly appointed homeschooling Chair of the board calling in some rabid creationists/anti-science folks to review the texts up for consideration.
Yeah, life in Florida may be tough.
But at least it anin’t fucking MORRRIS!
The soviets tired for 70 years to destroy Christianity.
By any means available, including mass murder.
Nietzche, Freud, Lenin, Trotsky, Russell, Sarter…they all tried.
They all failed,
Even PZ will fail.
Who the hell was Sarter?
Sarter was, i believe, a philosopher from Florida known as the “good ole boy existentialist”…
Ignore Legion (aka the Kansas Troll). It’s mother got it a new Computer for X-Mas.
Jean-Paul Sartre?
“It’s” of course should be “Its”.
does any have a bunker busting bomb?
/sarcasm
that should be does any one have a bunker busting bomb?
/sarcasm
“Ode to atheism, to be sung to the tune of PepsiCola hits the spot.”
I can’t seem to remember this tune. I’ve got it on a 78 somewhere, but the spring on my victrola is broken.
It isn’t just the rural counties. I lived for three years in Pinellas county, the most urbanized county in the state. Just escaped 2 months ago.
It’s pretty bad even in Pinellas… where a transgendered man was fired from the city council of Largo because tons of outraged citizens said Jesus would want him fired.
Florida, I’m sorry to say, is a shithole.
Ack, correction. Transgendered woman. Sorry, stupid of me.
Florida Citizens for Science is looking for your help. Anyone with a few spare minutes, please consider doing a little detective work.
First of all, a recent newspaper article mentions the possibility that there are a total of 12 Florida counties that have passed resolutions against evolution. Yes … 12. And here I was all excited about three.
Second, some of the resolutions we do know about are obvious duplicates. I just got hold of the Baker County one, and it’s exactly like the Taylor County one. It seems to me that someone is out there with a resolution template shopping it around to gullible school boards and asking them to fill in the blanks where the county name goes.
First, what we need help with is identifying all the school boards that did resolutions. We have three, so there are possibly nine more. We need to compare those resolutions to see how many of them are duplicates of one another.
Second, we need to know where that resolution template came from. Who is behind all of this? Find that person or group and I bet we find the religious root of this whole resolution crap.
If anyone finds something, please let me know. bhaught at flascience dot org.
Thanks!
Referring to the state’s new science standards, Board Chairman Vernon Lewis said, “It’s pretty much a done deal, but I choose to fight. I ask the public to do the same thing.”
Board Member Jason Motley said, “Science is not a fact. There’s always that percentage that it could be wrong.”
Wow, this is just…wow
We shouldn’t be quibbling over whether evolution is or isn’t a fact. Motley just showed the creationists hand. They aren’t after just evolution, they’re after science.
Text of Taylor County resolution here:
http://www.flascience.org/wp/?p=377
PDF of Baker County resolution here:
http://www.flascience.org/BakerResolutionScience.pdf
And a paragraph of the Holmes County resolution as pulled from a local newspaper says:
“The Holmes County School Board recognizes the importance of providing a thorough and comprehensive science education to all the students in Holmes County and to all students in the state of Florida, it recognizes as even more important the need to present these standards through a fair and balanced approach, an approach that does not unfairly exclude other theories as to the creation of the universe.”
Note that Baker County modified the template resolution a bit.
It seems to me there is some “intelligent design” behind all of this.
I will now repeat, virtually word for word, my comment from the past few days’ discussion of Taylor County, Florida: As a long-time resident of Cobb County, Georgia, I salute you, fucktards of Baker County, Florida! Keep up the great work!
Old English:
Given the respective natures of our favorite vitriolic Cornell grad Ann and Bolvangar mistress Marisa, this makes all kinds of sense.
Wrong.
Yes, and the past participle of “make” is “made”. So, etymologically, a fact is something that is made, implying a maker…
See why the argument from etymology is a logical fallacy?
(Incidentally, the Proto-Indo-European ancestor of “make” meant something more like “knead”.)
See, Kansas Troll? These are the people who are trying to destroy Christianity (consciously or not). What was that about hanging out with the whores and the customs officers, or even about “he who is without sin cast the first stone”? You are trolling the wrong people.
Besides, don’t be so stupid as to confuse cretinism with Christianity.
Wrong.
Yes, and the past participle of “make” is “made”. So, etymologically, a fact is something that is made, implying a maker…
See why the argument from etymology is a logical fallacy?
(Incidentally, the Proto-Indo-European ancestor of “make” meant something more like “knead”.)
See, Kansas Troll? These are the people who are trying to destroy Christianity (consciously or not). What was that about hanging out with the whores and the customs officers, or even about “he who is without sin cast the first stone”? You are trolling the wrong people.
Besides, don’t be so stupid as to confuse cretinism with Christianity.
The thing that really surprises me is that West Virginia hasn’t jumped on the bandwagon yet. We’re a buckle of one of the Bible Belts, not to mention one of the traditionally most ignorant states in the country… and yet, nothing!
Here is my e-mail to Mark Southerland and the response I got from him, who is on the School Board of Taylor County. It is amazing how using ALL CAPS is an obvious indicator of a creationist.
Dear Sir
I am currently a teaching assistant and research assistant at the University of Florida working on my PhD in a science related field and I have a BS in Biology. While it is disheartening for me to have to educate people who are tasked with the important job of creating teaching standards for our vulnerable children, it appears this is necessary. Firstly, your description of evolution as a theory of how the universe is formed, immediately elucidates your ignorance of the issue and forces anyone reading the resolution to think you are arguing from ignorance. While it is tempting to dismiss your conflation of how the billions of suns and planets formed with how species have changed over time and thus conclude your entire argument is false, I will flatter you and continue. You are correct that evolution is considered a Scientific Theory but in scientific terms a Theory is used in a much different manner than in common parlance, where it means just a hunch, or an idea that needs testing. Evolution was initially a hypothesis, which is roughly equivalent to the common usage of the word hunch. His hypothesis has gone through decades of testing from many independent trials and lines of evidence (genetics, the fossil record). During the period of discovery, If ONE single piece of evidence could accurately discredit evolution, the whole theory would have to be dropped as false and scientists would move on trying to find another way to explain the transitions in the fossil record and the genetics and similarities of living forms, but the question would still be there. But during this period of discovery these lines of evidence have thoroughly and confidently strengthened Darwin’s hypothesis more than Darwin could have ever dreamed of. Therefore, Darwin’s hypothesis got elevated to the status of Theory, the final resting place. Because you see, a Scientific Theory is stronger than mere facts, a theory explains a whole suite of facts and thus is much more powerful than the individual and dry facts. The same is true of the Theory of Gravity and the Theory of Plate tectonics. Perhaps I am wasting my time explaining the science, from your mischaracterization of evolutionary theory it becomes apparent that you are more interested in what you perceive are the implications of the theory on your religious and spiritual beliefs. On that issue, I don’t have much to say except to mention, do you think it is fair to force your students to be blinded by your personal religious and spiritual objections. If you truly cared about your students, you would understand that they are going to be competing for jobs and continuing the great American project of industry, technology and scientific advancement. As a current teacher who was educated in another state, I have noticed that the students of Florida have a lot of catching up to do in many areas. If we truly care about our children, that would be our highest priority rather than promoting our own idiosyncratic religious beliefs.
His response
LETS SEE NOW, YOU ARE A TEACHING ASSISTANT AND I CAN RESPECT YOUR OPINION, WHICH I DO NOT AGREE WITH- YOU MAY WANT TO CHECK OUT THIS WEB SITE – http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/ AND SEE HOW MANY SCIENTISTS DISAGREE WITH YOU-CHECK IT OUT YOU MAY START HAVING SOME OTHER VIEWS ON THIS SUBJECT-HOWEVER I WILL NOT CALL YOU AN IDIOT OR IGNORANT EVEN THOUGH I BELIEVE YOU MAY WELL BE. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME, MARK SOUTHERLAND-SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER DISTRICT ONE- TAYLOR COUNTY FLORIDA.
@ Casey S:
Would it be possible for you to post a copy of that email with the headers intact or make it available for download somewhere? If the latter case, could you post a link here from which it can be downloaded?
I think an email like that might come in very useful for someone at some point in time with some sort of documentation.
Is it the same Mark Southerland who’s a carpet fitter (rather than any sort of scientist)?!
http://www.taylorcountychamber.com/cbizz.ivnu
Anybody interested in more information, feel free to contact me via this message board.
From: Mark Southerland [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:30 PM
To: Schmidt,Casey Adam
Subject: Re: Evolutionary theory
LETS SEE NOW, YOU ARE A TEACHING ASSISTANT AND I CAN RESPECT YOUR OPINION, WHICH I DO NOT AGREE WITH- YOU MAY WANT TO CHECK OUT THIS WEB SITE – http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/ AND SEE HOW MANY SCIENTISTS DISAGREE WITH YOU-CHECK IT OUT YOU MAY START HAVING SOME OTHER VIEWS ON THIS SUBJECT-HOWEVER I WILL NOT CALL YOU AN IDIOT OR IGNORANT EVEN THOUGH I BELIEVE YOU MAY WELL BE. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME, MARK SOUTHERLAND-SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER DISTRICT ONE- TAYLOR COUNTY FLORIDA.
—– Original Message —–
From: Schmidt,Casey Adam
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:52 AM
Subject: Evolutionary theory
Dear Sir
I am currently a teaching assistant and research assistant at the University of Florida working on my PhD in a science related field and I have a BS in Biology. While it is disheartening for me to have to educate people who are tasked with the important job of creating teaching standards for our vulnerable children, it appears this is necessary. Firstly, your description of evolution as a theory of how the universe is formed, immediately elucidates your ignorance of the issue and forces anyone reading the resolution to think you are arguing from ignorance. While it is tempting to dismiss your conflation of how the billions of suns and planets formed with how species have changed over time and thus conclude your entire argument is false, I will flatter you and continue. You are correct that evolution is considered a Scientific Theory but in scientific terms a Theory is used in a much different manner than in common parlance, where it means just a hunch, or an idea that needs testing. Evolution was initially a hypothesis, which is roughly equivalent to the common usage of the word hunch. His hypothesis has gone through decades of testing from many independent trials and lines of evidence (genetics, the fossil record). During the period of discovery, If ONE single piece of evidence could accurately discredit evolution, the whole theory would have to be dropped as false and scientists would move on trying to find another way to explain the transitions in the fossil record and the genetics and similarities of living forms, but the question would still be there. But during this period of discovery these lines of evidence have thoroughly and confidently strengthened Darwin’s hypothesis more than Darwin could have ever dreamed of. Therefore, Darwin’s hypothesis got elevated to the status of Theory, the final resting place. Because you see, a Scientific Theory is stronger than mere facts, a theory explains a whole suite of facts and thus is much more powerful than the individual and dry facts. The same is true of the Theory of Gravity and the Theory of Plate tectonics. Perhaps I am wasting my time explaining the science, from your mischaracterization of evolutionary theory it becomes apparent that you are more interested in what you perceive are the implications of the theory on your religious and spiritual beliefs. On that issue, I don’t have much to say except to mention, do you think it is fair to force your students to be blinded by your personal religious and spiritual objections. If you truly cared about your students, you would understand that they are going to be competing for jobs and continuing the great American project of industry, technology and scientific advancement. As a current teacher who was educated in another state, I have noticed that the students of Florida have a lot of catching up to do in many areas. If we truly care about our children, that would be our highest priority rather than promoting our own idiosyncratic religious beliefs.
Sincerely
Casey Schmidt M.S.
Casey,
Is that for real? Did a school board member in my very own state, and yours ( Daytona Beach here ) , really reply to you in such a childish manner?
Completely real. I was as surprised as you. I was expecting some diplomatic politician response and I couldn’t believe my eyes to receive this e-mail in ALL CAPS.
On a plus note, the chairwoman of the Volusia County School Board told me that she is a firm supporter of evolution and in the Daytona Beach News Journal, 4 of the 5 VCSB members came out saying that yes, we need to teach evolution. The other said he didn’t know enough to make a decision The VCSB chair said ” I hope we don’t do something to embarass ourselves.”
I guess we should not be surprised that a rural, hick county like Taylor would generate that kind of response.
Well, in my brief internet search, I did come across another Mark Southerland in the area – but he was an elementary(?) school child so I initially dismissed him from consideration. Perhaps it was his email account – and, even more disturbingly, maybe he’s the one on the board!
Re #58
David Marjanović,
Ah, the ever precise Dr. Marjanović rightly slaps me down. Yeah, as soon as I hit the post button I realized my post was a bit less than logical.
I do apologize for my fuzzy thinking, my only excuse is that my brain hadn’t yet fully booted before my first cup of brew.
Cheers
I still hate it.
I am a native Texan.
It hurts to have us so riduculed, but hurts more that the ridiculue is due.
I am not still there but I soon may be back because the events here are getting scary.
And if I come home at least I can have DR Pepper.
A few people here are actually more interestested in the primaries than probably 80% of people in the US. They always like to ask about the ones they hear about.
Well, I hope the voters get it right here and back home…. because we need it.
Mr. Casey Schmidt M.S.,
If you get a chance, please email me at this address: [email protected], I would like to discuss this issue with you a little. I am actually going to school to be a lawyer for children. And since this issue has to deal with children more than anyone, I believe there are some issues that you need to be aware about.
Thanks,
Drew Southerland
What do you think are the chances that Casey is going to get a handshake and an engraved watch?
Disagree for scientific reasons, or for theological reasons?
Uh… two?
LOL @ AIG
Good luck, Florida.