Salon has picked up my criticisms of Mario Beauregard and Near-Death Experiences and published it there. And, oh joy, Beauregard threatens to reply on Salon this weekend. We shall do battle! I’m girding my loins already.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
What does that look like, exactly?
Hopefully Beauregard will attempt to make a better case for his personal contribution to the field: his research on the profound effect NDEs have on patients. Maybe he can explain why he thinks that the profundity of the effect is evidence of the reality of the experience.
.
But I doubt it.
Oooh, he threatens to reply. Scary. He obviously can’t threaten to back his article with any actual facts or proof.
I was in a severe auto accident 6 years ago and came close to death. I was in the ICU with traumatic brain injury and several breaks and fractures, including a serious fracture on vertebra C2 within a millimeter of my spinal cord. I stopped breathing a few times and set off the alarms on the machines hooked up to me. I was wheeled all over the hospital, put in loud MRI machines, fitted with a spinal halo, intubated and catheterized. I experienced NONE of it until I woke up. No consciousness, no experience. Sorry, Beauregard there is no such thing as an out-of-body experience and there is NO LIFE AFTER DEATH. Good luck defending delusions and hallucinations as science.
What does that look like, exactly?
A jockstrap.
Salon gives a link to Pharyngula at SB, not FtB.
OMG, Beauregard is going to gibber some more? Quote Denyse?
I’m sure it will be devastating, whatever it is–to feeble minds.
Glen Davidson
That won’t be a battle, it will be a slaying.
I was much more impressed with the comments received to this article on salon, than i was with the Dingle berries that responded to article in salon this was a response to.
Dis gonna be good!
Ever Sean Connery in Zardoz?
more like an extremely short curb stomp battle …
@4 kp71
A lack of anecdotal evidence of NDEs is not evidence of a lack of NDE anecdotes
Do they ask first or is any blog free from author control once it hits the web? I can’t imagine copyright law works in the later way.
The way you wrote this is way more awesome than the reference.
Previewed twice to check the tags. Completely missed the missing word. I am become Derth, destroyer of grammur.
Not for atheists there isn’t. That’s probably why you didn’t get the tunnel preview.
Seriously, glad you came out alive. I hope you’re pretty much recovered.
leftwingfox:
No, you’re the creator of awesome. I thoroughly enjoyed that sentence.
As Brownian stated, leftwingfox is not a Xian so this may explain why he saw nothing. I am glad that leftwing recovered. The shoe story has been debunked but so has that story. I would be interested in reading more about the debunking story if someone has additional links or info. Thx.
So good. I can’t find the right ligature though: “Ever Seæn Connery in Zardoz?”
Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong, moron? You can’t even get the commenter right.
If there is a God, and he’s not a complete moron, he has to be sick of dipshits like you sticking up for him.
Dano:
As usual, fuckwit, you can’t even master simple reading. Leftwingfox was not the person who had no NDE experience. Also, Brownian was joking.
Also as usual, your standard, dimwitted godbot derailing is not welcome. Take it to TZT.
Have I mentioned that I love the way you prase things, PZ?
dano is going to read something? Holy shit! That’s a fekking miracle!
Brother Ogvorbis:
I wouldn’t get excited, Oggie. So far, Dano has exhibited little ability when it comes to reading comprehension.
I have not seen a light at the end of the tunnel, but I apparently have Sean Connery.
leftwingfox:
:laughs in delight at the brain tickle:
Sorry for the slip of the fingers on that one. I would still be interested in additional information unless everyone’s brain has been over taxed by my post.
It’s not the first time he does it.
I wouldn’t comment on people’s brains too much if I were you Mr. Brainfart.
dano:
That wasn’t a “slip of the fingers”. It wasn’t a typo. It was you, exhibiting once again, your inability to comprehend what you read along with an inability to hold information in your brain for more than 2 seconds. Apparently, you fail at double-checking, also.
Are you ever coherent?
leftwingfox is not a Xian so this may explain why he saw nothing.
so, God won’t tease us poor doomed atheists with visions of heaven before we die?
good to know.
everyone’s brain has been over taxed by my post.
stop projecting.
Ichthyic:
Now that you mention it, this seems seriously out of character for El Shaddai.
I always imaging girding of the loins to look like this.
Man, that dano makes my banhammer hand twitch.
Dano,
On the off-chance that you are really being sincere about wanting to hear more debunking, I finished reading Paranormality a while back. It’s a pretty good primer for debunking a lot of “magic” we think we see, using scientific findings about psychology and neurology. The author is well versed in how illusions works: he was a stage magician. He’s spent a lot of time calling people out to prove claims of mind-reading abilities and things and has never once managed to find anyone with such an ability, under controlled conditions.
The book includes a thorough analysis of the “Maria sees a shoe” case, dedicating a signicant chunk of one chapter to it. If you really are interested, give it a try. It’s free for lending on Amazon Prime.
I always imaging girding of the loins to look like this.
I bet that covering is at least twice lifesize…
I have to admit, that does covered the concept of “girded” pretty damn well IMO.
PZ:
I understand. I think we all understand. He’s like an annoying gnat.
I recommend the book “Spook: Science Tackles the Afterlife”. She doesn’t really “take a side” but is pretty convincing that there is no evidence for afterlife.
One experiment they actually came up with to validate “out of body” type experiences with those that claim to be “looking down” on their “dead” body and everything in the room was very intelligently designed (haha)…they’d have a monitor FACING UP that the patient could not see, displaying pre-selected images.
In the experiment, patients who claimed to be looking down should have easily been able to see the images, but none of them were able to name a single image.
Lay on, McFluff!
And petulant be he who first cries
Wait, you can’t say that!
As an atheist who’s had an NDE, I’m sorry, being an atheist is no guarantee that the crap your brain will dredge up during its last heave-ho won’t be smeared with God/dessy schemata. That’s the problem with the subconscious — it isn’t exactly accessible to the conscious mind. So just laugh and take it for whatever it is — even if it’s nothing, it’s sure to be ridiculous.
(Thankfully, there is absolutely zero evidence that what I experienced had any correspondence to reality whatsoever.)
I can’t imagine that even if I had such an experience that I wouldn’t just assume it was my brain starved of oxygen or something.
It would have to be a literally brain damaging event to get me to believe it was the afterlife.
At least you will be able to enjoy lovely, if not cold, damp, and wet, Madison this weekend while you gird.
On the Xian & Scout blogs I regularly visit we do not ban someone unless they are being disrespectful such as by name calling or using foul language. We have plenty of liberal and atheist “trolls” as you call them but we live by the above basic rules. Hmmmmmmmmm. Let’s think about that one shall we. Thank you to those that provided links and/or suggested books. I have always been interested in the after life, even though most if not all of you do not. Regards.
It’s sad that you think this is something clever to say, let alone worth serious thought. Different blogs have different standards. Yours favor mealy-mouthed bullshit, ours favor substance. I’m sure you live up to the very high standards of pretend civility and tone-trolling nonsense; unfortunately, you have fucking nothing to offer in the way of actual argumentation or even willingness to learn.
Reginald Selkirk #2 wrote:
This. It seems to be a huge stumbling-block for those who believe that paranormal or mystical experiences point to some other realm where Mind exists, refuting materialism/naturalism. If the experience is life-changing — if it has profound and significant effects on one’s personality, peace of mind, and attitude towards self and others — then they don’t seem to be capable of considering the still-reasonable explanation from neurology.
Materialist neurologists must think they’re lying, they conclude. No, it simply could not have been a strange (and wonderful) reaction of the brain. Not possible. The effects lasted, so it wasn’t a brain state. No way. Ah, if you had only felt it for yourself, then you would also know, be certain, that you left your body/felt God/learned the secrets of the universe. The subject of the experience is always the best person to interpret the experience.
No. They’re not. The highly charged emotions don’t reveal what actually happened; they only get in the way of analysis.
They say there is a part of the brain which, when stimulated, causes the subject to feel what’s called a sense of significance. You can’t describe it, you don’t know why, but whatever it is you’re feeling or looking at or going through is so deeply important it’s as if you finally understood it for the very first time. It’s not just real: it’s more real than real. It’s the cosmic standard for Real — and nobody can talk you out of it.
Unless you’re cautious, thoughtful, and curious enough to seriously consider and weigh other alternatives, that is. But somehow those who are of paranormal, mystical, spiritual, religious bent don’t seem to fall into that category very often.
Not his fault poor thing, he has incontinence of the brain.
When it becomes too much he has to brainfart.
Can’t even enjoy an evening of Minecraft like normal people, the leftover neurons up there overheat.
Might just ignite the gas, you understand.
Cassandra, can you please tell me why the bible has lasted so long, who wrote it and why? I am interested in your thoughts and knowledge since you seem to think so highly of yourself over a poor and defenseless Xian. Please limit yourself to no more than 3-syllable words as I apparently have trouble comprehending your vast knowledge on multiple subjects.
A lot of different people wrote and edited it, over a lot of time periods and geographical locations, for a lot of reasons, and it’s lasted because people have had an interest in replicating it. Primarily because a major religion considers it, bafflingly, to be a sacred text. I mostly blame the Romans. What’s the relevance of this to the subject of the post?
Cassandra, can you please tell me why the bible has lasted so long, who wrote it and why?
which parts?
I mostly blame the Romans.
if any one group can be held primarily responsible, that’s as good as any.
poor and defenseless Xian
another lying drama queen for Jesus!
who’d athunk it!
sorry cassandra, you failed his “3 syllable limit”.
he won’t understand words like:
geographical
and
replicating
*rolleyes*
what a git this “dano” is.
Book ’em, I say.
Salon was certainly committing acts of war against my computer. Everything bogged down, I couldn’t scroll pages or switch tabs in the browser. WTF? It really isn’t the busiest web page I’ve ever seen, nor does it load content from the most external domains I’ve ever seen. Unfortunately, I can’t look further into this because it saps my system so.
Anyone else have this issue? Was it the woo-woo gremlins or what?
And yes, the original OBENDE article is ridiculously silly.
Now that Cassandra has fulfilled your little request, how about you do the same for the Popul Vuh, the Upanishads, and the Diamond Sutra? Those are just for starters. And people have died for those too, just in case you want to incur my wrath by suggesting the Bible is unique in that respect, ignorant fucker.
You want to talk about religious texts? We’ll fucking fill you up, asshole.
We’ll fucking fill you up
I’m sure you just got the attention of all those still waiting in line…
It was written by Bronze age savages. It has lasted so long because of the morons who believe it is a sacred text written by a non-existent deity.
dano the villiage idjit:
Your posts only overtax the brain of a newt. Any Pharyngula regular or lurker, you are at the bottom end of the line, with us having t-shirts all pointing at you, saying “I’m with stupid”.
Ooh! Ooh! Do the Prose Edda, the Iliad and Odyssey and the Epic of Gilgamesh while you’re at it.
(Bonus points for correctly identifying the stuff stolen from the Epic of Gilgamesh in the Old Testament.)
Why has the Bible lasted for so long? That’s easy. One day Emperor Constantine and his Merrie Men were sitting around, discussing how to mess with the citizenry without getting them too upset when one counselor made a comment. “Hey boss, do you know the Christians have this wacked out idea that they can be shit on their entire lives but if they’re good, then when they die they’ll go to a place where they can pluck harps and sing songs of praise to a megalomaniac forever.”
Constantine was mulling this over when another counselor had a brilliant idea. “If we tell them they have to obey us, that their god insists on obedience, then we can screw them over all day every day and promise them pie in the sky when they die.”
Constantine said: “That’s exactly what we need. We can fuck them all we want, have their priests tell them their god wants them to be fucked over but it’s okay because they’ll be sitting pretty after they die, and when they find out it’s all bullshit it’ll be too late. We’ve been persecuting these idiot Christians all this time and not realizing we had a gold mine. What idiots we were! Quick, let’s make Christianity the state religion complete with priests loyal to us. Damn, this is the greatest thing since the invention of sex.”
So Christianity and all its trappings including a holy book replaced worship of Zeus et al. Of course, Constantine and the boys modified Christianity to meet their agenda, but that’s the whole point of state religions.
Tune in again next time when we discuss how Christianity survived the fall of the Roman empire.
It has also proven remarkably useful over the centuries for controlling populations through fear, providing divine justification for the status quo, and occasionally inspiring genocide.
While dano’s mulling over those texts using the wits God gave him, I’ll just set down the task of demonstrating why whatever points he was going to make about the Bible (who wrote it, why, and how has it lasted so long?) don’t also apply to the Analects of Confucius.
As soon as you can get to it, dano.
dano says:
Men wrote it so they could control other men and women.
Now tell me who wrote The Egyptian book of they dead, the Illiad & the Odyssey, the Tao Te Ching, and the Bhagavad Gita… and why?
I know I’m laying a lot of homework on you danny boy, but you said you were really interested in books about the afterlife, so I’m sure you know all about the oldest religious texts in the world: the ancient Egyptian Pyramid texts. Seems odd, thirels igious writing that’s older than the bible, but there you go. You’ll for sure want to fit those into your list of Things to Explain.
Consider it extra credit.
… and I forgot the book of Mormon and Dianetics.
Stupid and addled, yes. Poor and defenseless, no.
Massive stupidity and delusion on this scale is far from harmless.
I’m afraid that’s a doomed endeavor.
You seem to have trouble understanding who said what and how to express yourself coherently.
Plus you have admitted to being so incurious about the world that the bible answers any questions you have about it.
I pray Tpyos finds my offering acceptable.
No one, the Iliad and Odyssey have already been added to dano’s book list. You need to come up with two new ones.
Any from this list of religious texts not already covered will do.
Dano, one of the major methods used for spreading Christianity was the sword. Also, when a king or ruler converted — or was forced to convert — all his or her subjects automatically became “Christians.” Had this not been the case, Christianity would almost certainly have died out, one religion among too many others.
Think about that. I mean, consider the contradiction here. When modern Christians today think about their religion, they see it as an act of faith, a relationship with God, a special revelation, or a conclusion gradually come to by study, prayer, and becoming aware of the ‘signs’ in personal life. If you’re a Christian, you’re supposed to be a Christian because you believe Christianity and think it is true.
And that’s how you believe God wants it. He wants Christian believers who have thought about the matter, considered it, accepted it, and freely chosen it.
When you think about trying to force people to convert through violence and threats, it bothers you. The idea that people might be ‘counted’ as Christians without knowing anything about the Bible, Jesus, or the salvation of souls seems ridiculous. Neither way is going to form a genuine convert. Neither way is legitimate — not in your eyes, and certainly not in the eyes of God.
And yet … this is apparently what God did. This is the crucial and significant method God used for years and years and years on thousands and thousands of people in order to finally get to the place where suddenly it’s all about thoughtful acceptance and free choice. The modern era. And you … the you today who is sure that God would not want the sort of ‘believer’ who accepts Jesus’ gift only at the point of a sword. Believe or die. Or surprise — you’re all Christians now! Your king has made a political move.
Look, if Christianity had always and everywhere spread through thoughtful people thinking it through you’d have a much better case to stand on when you try to point out how amazing and suggestive it is that Christianity survived for soooo long. As it is, it’s just not impressive.
Even worse: it’s rather disconcerting, when you think about it. Bad enough from our perspective, sure — but surely it should be worse from yours. You think you know what sort of follower God wants. Given your assumptions, the actual history of how the precious Bible became so widely accepted should be pretty damn alarming.
Which “the bible” do you mean? The Torah? The Septuagint? The Vulgate? The Authorized Version? The Douay-Rheims?
There’s no such thing as “the” Bible.
Dano
You have, in a previous post, alluded to the fact that you are a Desert Storm veteran and that you had to make some tough “me or them” decisions. And you are worried about foul language? “Thou shalt not kill” motherfucker. Unless the CO orders you to… and the Army chaplin whips up another (contradictory) verse to help the process along.
That’s why the bible and patriotism have lasted this long.
Brownian says:
I’d rather poke his eye out.
I would attribute the success of the Bible to advances in technology in writing and writing media (papyrus) which resulted in a boom in longer and more complicated texts as well as more text in translation. The most important literature of earlier eras were performances of oral literature that someone captured and wrote down. There were letters and histories and scientific and legal documents and ledgers as well, but these were for specialized audiences.
The second major advantage of the New Testament at least, is that it was the record of a major religious movement that grew out of a melding of cultures and attempts to fuse together the best of existing traditions. Scholars have shown that these are the conditions for the most successful new religious movements. Along with the more sophisticated writing technology it made is possible for Greeks, Romans, Hebrews and others to get together and listen to readings of each others sacred texts.
That Christianity became the official Roman religion was of course the ultimate reason for its success but the advances of the Romans in politics, governance, and transportation made Christianity possible in the first place.
Other factors that have been suggested is that it was trivially easy to become a Christian (in contrast to some of the mystery cults), that it was open to women, men, and slaves alike, that Christianity was exclusive (you would have to drop out of the cult of Bacchus), and that unlike many religions which taught that successful people deserve to be rewarded and cultivated rich followers, Christians were aggressive about helping and recruiting poor people and adopting unwanted children (mostly girls).
Despite all this the Bible is not the longest-lasting religious book or Christianity the fasting spreading religion. None of its ideas are particularly new. Nor does this have much to do with doctrine, except that it is a snapshot of the hottest ideas of the day.
I think no-one has noticed it yet that Salon’s bio of PZ at the end of the article has the following to say about him (emphasis mine):
So now PZ is not just a professor and a biologist, but also a blog? How can you be so many things at the same time, good sir?
Dano, please explain how The Holy Books of Thelema, written by Aleister Crowley are any less valid than the christian bible. Feel free to use big words. We’ll muddle through.
Oh man, I was out doing stuff today for too long and missed the juicy parts!
Is it too late to mention a very good book (which I’ve loaned out and can’t remember to whom, damnit!) on this very subject:
Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Elliott Friedman.
It’ll cost you a Grant and change, but I’m sure you could check it out from your local library if you don’t want to spend the cash.
I would attribute the success of the Bible to advances in technology
nope. It could have been ANY book.
why it was the bible was politics. pure and simple.
religion is the tool of politics, always has been, always will be.
Girl, pleez.
Figures. Perv.
What about when they’re really polite, but they’ve got scout cock in their mouths? Is that disrespectful?
Jesus you’re a waste of air. Go nap in a rattlesnake den.
Re: No One at #69
No no no, the bible isn’t saying Killing is bad, it’s saying killing other people who also believe in your personal view of the bible is bad. That’s Murder. Gunning down someone of another faith? Perfectly acceptable. You really are giving the Bible too much credit when it comes to morality, a mistake identical to giving it any amount of credit.
No One @ 69,
You remind me of what I read just yesterday about the Army Air Forces Chaplain William Downey reading out a blessing before the Enola Gay took off. He asked God to be sure and return the men safely.
My stomach feels funny, thinking about that.
P Z Meyers @33
How much time do you spend “imagining” things like that?
I was most tickled that they left your introduction and postscript untouched while published on their own site:
Tickled, I say!
Fight! – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQqkybl7pCg
snebo154:
You seem to have the wrong person, this here blog belongs to PZ Myers. ;)
Danny boy, if your goal is to defend your religion or to present yourself as a good example, you really really suck at it.
That question is elementary bullshit.
Or as Dalek Sec put it: “THIS IS NOT WAR, THIS IS PEST CONTROL.”
When I had a prosaic bunionectomy, I experienced what I thought was an out of body experience, but it turned out to be just a vivid dream. I thought my consciousness was about two feet above my head, and I could see the surgeon looking at an xray of my foot on a lighted screen and hemostats hanging out of my foot. It wasn’t possible that I briefly regained consciousness and saw this, because a structure draped with sheets was over my chest, so it would have been impossible for me to see the foot of the operating table. I probably just heard noises in the OR, and my brain cobbled together corresponding imagery, with the help of good drugs.
Not to mention the book of love.
Wikipedia clearly states:
So The Monotones (specifically Warren Davis, George Malone and Charles Patrick) wrote “The Book of Love” in which they ask a question to which they are the answer.
That’s more noodle-frosting than anything in the Bible.
Getting back to the bible for a mo, I’d like an answer to this incredibly burning question:
Also, I want to know where the dragons went:
There are lots of other mentions of dragons in the bible, too. No fair crying “they meant dinosaurs!” Nope. Dragons. Bible says dragons. What happened to them?
I find it funny that with all the so called scholars in this blog (sorry I can’t verify with faux names given) most of your answers were simply I don’t really care who wrote it and therefore so should you. If this single book of worthless and untruthful stories is the cause of most of your disbelief I would think you would have more ammo or at least some web links to back up your it’s just BS statements. The exception would be the answers given by #71 Christinelaing & #67 Satra. Thank you for taking the time to explain in your own words the answers to my questions. I will also take the time to read #74 Usernames suggested book.
If the Bible is nothing but fiction wouldn’t someone or rather a group of people during Jesus’ time not have said I was there during the so called crucifixion of Christ (insert any bible story here) and that never happened. Instead I have nothing on this except from those I mentioned above. I believe some additional book work is needed by most of you to prove to me (with facts) why the book is made up of false stories. I have nothing to prove but a room full of scholars would (IMHO). For those who asked what version let’s say the ESV or English Standard Version for those who are unfamiliar with the acronym. Here is a quick link to it so you don’t have to waste all of your time searching. http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/English-Standard-Version-ESV-Bible/
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
A few decades after the fact, a couple of survivors, hearing about an obscure book by an obscure religion, come forth to testify that the story about the crucifixion of Jesus is not true.
Yeah, right.
Critical thinking is not your strong suit.
dano
Which version of The Old Testament did Jesus use?
We’re waiting on all those answers, Dano, hurry it up!
There is an other book of love.
dano:
What were ‘Jesus’s” last words?
It’s not wonder dano’s posts here come off as idiotic. He’s clearly using up 90% of his available brainpower doing the constant mental gymnastic required to not see how hollow the supports of his belief are.
I wonder if dano is capable of making it through The End Of Biblical Studies by Hector Avalos.
Dano you are insanely rude. By your own criteria you should be banned. Fuck you may have made a death threat the only reason why you wernt slammed for that is because no one is sure due to your shitty communication skills.
Ing, I see English is not your primary language based on your last post #97. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
HEY, FUCKFACE: CASSANDRA AND OTHERS ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. HOW ABOUT YOU ANSWER THOSE SAME QUESTIONS FOR THE BOOKS WE LISTED, YOU COWARDLY ASSHOLE?
HEY, FUCKFACE: CASSANDRA AND OTHERS ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. HOW ABOUT YOU ANSWER THOSE SAME QUESTIONS FOR THE BOOKS WE LISTED, YOU COWARDLY ASSHOLE?
a) posted on a phone…and it’s still comprehensible. You made a comment that might be a death threat (or if not was explicitly HOPING for other’s deaths).
b) You’re honestly telling me you’re not being rude as all hell?
Hey, Dano, I’ll pray for you
FIXED IT FOR YOU.
HEY, FUCKFACE: CASSANDRA AND OTHERS ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. HOW ABOUT YOU ANSWER THOSE SAME QUESTIONS FOR THE BOOKS WE LISTED, YOU COWARDLY ASSHOLE?
Brownian, have patience, he’s probably getting his kids braces put on or something.
Presuppositional argument and religious inanity on your part. You make the claims of truth, you provide the evidence for the truth. That is how science works, which is the opposite of religion (prove my claim wrong, which is what you are attempting-won’t work here). You do science here at a science blog.
Start with exodus happening with anthropological evidence from the Sinai, properly dated, for a migration of 150,000 people. Then supply the evidence from the scientific geological column for a one-time-all-world-flood (verified by radiometric dating), with the brief extinction of all life on earth. Or, your babble is proven to be a book of mythology/fiction. Welcome to science.
Whatever. Fuck this dishonest piece of shit.
@brownian
But he prays for you! Isn’t that nice!?
Brownian:
Seconded. I’m bored and tired of dano’s complete lack of honesty, integrity and brains. Time for the banhammer of doom or at least a quarantine to TZT.
Ing:
Yeah, bless his little sick ass heart.
hearing “I’ll pray for you” like how dano says it sounds to me either like “fuck you” or “I’ll name my next turd in your honor!”
He can drown in a truck stop toilet for all I fucking care.
Any god who listens to this stupid fuck is a piece of shit too.
dano:
Are you going to answer any questions? Or are you the only one who is allowed to ask?
D’you know what’s great? Reading this thread and listening to King Crimson’s “The Construkction of Light”. Talk about an out-of-body experience…
Brownian:
I say we toss him to a hippo to be eaten, per adamkills in the death penalty thread.
That’s deep.
And hypocritical, given the dishonest fuckface’s propensity for asking questions he’s too chickenshitted to answer himself.
It all depends, really, on the thickness of the glass (is it safety glass?), the size of the stones, the strength of the thrower, the weather outside, and one’s subjective opinion of the aesthetic value of radial fracture patterns.
My mother would have yelled at me for throwing stones indoors, and we lived in a regular brick house.
Brother #94 the answer is
Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” – which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
Caine & Ing I am still waiting for your scholarly answer to my question. Anything yet or are you hiding or holding your words back because you have none?
I am not a scietist as I have explained before although I did enojoy science & mathematics in college. Earlier there was a question about proof of the great flood or global deluge. I can only provide you with some web links although I know you will cast them aside after spouting out some science babble. Never the less please enjoy the following links provided by Dr. Dano.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070907150931.htm
http://unmaskingevolution.com/18-flood.htm
http://creation.com/images/pdfs/cabook/chapter10.pdf
http://www.earthage.org/EarthOldorYoung/scientific_evidence_for_a_worldwide_flood.htm
HEY, FUCKFACE: CASSANDRA AND OTHERS ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. HOW ABOUT YOU ANSWER THOSE SAME QUESTIONS FOR THE BOOKS WE LISTED, YOU COWARDLY ASSHOLE?
HEY, FUCKFACE: CASSANDRA AND OTHERS ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. HOW ABOUT YOU ANSWER THOSE SAME QUESTIONS FOR THE BOOKS WE LISTED, YOU COWARDLY ASSHOLE?
I’m waiting for you to answer the questions posed to you by a number of people, you dishonest fuckwit. Go ahead, try it, just once. What’s the matter, Cupcake? God not providing you with a cheat sheet?
It’s been your turn for a while – c’mon, give us one essay on one holy text that isn’t the bible and happens to be much, much older than the bible. Hell, at this point, I’d settle for an essay on which specific myths were stolen and modified to make up a good portion of the bible. Also, I’d like an essay about the Nicene Creed, the council and the various schisms caused over which books to include and exclude in the bible, along with why there are so many different versions. Bonus points: explain why the KJV is the absolute worst version, why idiotic christians are so attached to it and why it doesn’t bother them that King James was bisexual?
From dano’s first link:
That’s a long fucking way from proof, or even evidence, of a global flood.
So, no science babble, dano. Just a quote from the link you provided, which doesn’t even begin to back up your claims.
Quite feeble, actually.
Dano, that sentence does not make any sense. It’s incoherent. It’s not a typo problem, it’s a structure problem.
That’s why people are asking you if english is your first language, they’re trying to understand why what you write makes no sense / is weirdly written. Sometimes a non-native speaker of english uses sentence structures that belongs to their mother tongue. It’s nothing to be ashamed of.
I however don’t think english isn’t your first language.
I think you simply don’t read what you write to see if it looks like what you want to say. Take the time to do that. You can use the preview button. At the same time, that will help you see to whom your replies are supposed to go (may I remember you that you also are using an anonymous handle), and they will make you look a little bit less stupid.
A lot of people here have given you quotations straight from your own holy book – that you think has all the answers. You do have a bible at home, don’t you ? If you can’t be arsed to look them up, that’s your own fault.
However, if you happen to be too lazy to do that here’s a link you might like :
brick testatment
If the Bible is nothing but fiction wouldn’t someone or rather a group of people during Jesus’ time not have said I was there during the so called crucifixion of Christ (insert any bible story here) and that never happened.
Dano, the earliest books of the bible were written about 100 years after the supposed crucifixion of jesus. No historian of the time corroborates this supposedly important event. Furthermore, it was very heavily modified through copying mistakes (there were no printing pressed at the time and books had to be copied by hand) and intentional changes motivated by political decisions.
Nobody wasted time contradicting it (I remind you that at this time paper was rare and valuable and that the vast majority of people was illiterate) because that account was no different nor more important than other myths circulating at the time.
But if everything you need to know is inside that book as you have said earlier, then there’s no way to have a reasonable conversation with you about this.
It would be like trying to reason with someone convinced Hogwarts exists from the writings of J K Rowling.
We might as well continue with the brainfart jokes.
I said SCIENTIFIC evidence. That is not found in places where the babble is inerrant, like you cited, which are religious sites (even SCOTUS says creationism is a religious belief, which is why it can’t be taught in public schools). You will find the evidence I require from the peer reviewed scientific literature found in places like this, libraries at secular institutions of higher learning where inerrancy of the babble is not presumed, and real evidence is looked at. Fail, but not with science babble, but with facts. You failed to provide the expected evidence. Ergo, your babble is mythology fiction until you actually present real scientific evidence, from real journals of science. Welcome to science, where your lies are exposed.
The surest sign that God doesn’t exist is that he sends this pathetic excuse for a sentient being to witness to us.
If I end up in hell because my chance for salvation was botched by this shithead, I am raising a fucking army of the damned, invading heaven, and I’m going to beat God to after-death with this brainless lump of clay’s fucking torn off wings.
bah, borked the second blockquote, should have done one more preview.
You see, that’s what I mean.
Even when you do read, sometimes there are some mistakes left anyway.
Science, contrarily to your book of fairy tales, is related to the real, physical world.
Links from sites that quote bible verses, or interpret bible verses, are not related to the real world. They are not evidence. They’re worthless opinion.
Evidence must come from the real world.
Using the bible as evidence that the bible is true makes. no. freaking. sense.
If you only accept things which as per their agreement with that poorly written and self-contradictory fiction book, there can be no reasonable conversation with you.
Brownian:
Count me in.
Brownian:
By the way, this ^ is what the ‘after-life’ should be called. I’m using it from now on.
I’m working on the screen-play, actually. You will be played by Liam Neeson, the role of God goes to Mel Gibson, and the role of Dano* will be reprised by Larry the Cable Guy.
*Not yet an element, but I can work this in easily.
What an arrogant moron you are.
You say that you can’t be arsed to understand science (I suspect that “did not like it” translates to “did not have the brains for it”), and not one freaking minute after that you dismiss the opinion of people who are knowledgeable in science, some of which are actual, real world scientists, as opposed to the complete morons in those links you post.
Xianity == ignorant arrogance that sells itself as humility
Sorry, Caine. I was being facetious. Logic proves that heaven has already been invaded and God already after-killed:
Caine: I see a place in this for you as well. Michelle Yeoh maybe. Although I love Francis McDormand.
AE:
Oh, no. You’re missing a golden opportunity here. There is an actor incredibly well suited to play Dano – Kirk Cameron.
Kemist:
As if that isn’t bad enough, Dano feels free to waltz into any thread, on any topic and completely derail it, making it all about him. That takes xian arrogance.
Why? I already act, have played the undead before, and can do a Canadian accent.
AE:
Ooooh, her please. I look more like her, anyway.
Brownian, ah, I’m disappointed. I was looking forward to a good god killing, a la His Dark Materials.
Yeah. Me too. We were born too late.
The links plenty provide scientific data of many more findings. Sorry I had to write it that way for laughs. There were facts given but I am guessing you choose to ignore them.
I have no reason to write a dissertation on all of your ridiculous questions. Let’s stick to the questions at hand that are pertinent and not get off track. Most of the replies were dishonest or just plain did not answer anything. If this is how a blog of scholars answers an honest question I hope I am not a stockholder in your company. An honest question asked of me will be answered.
Brownian, I can not tell you if you will be condemned to hell. Only you know the truth. Generally if you have to questions yourself it’s not looking good. I will keep you in my thoughts…I didn’t say prayer mind you.
I’m sure he would be willing, but I’m not quite sure that his acting skills are up to it.
Brownian:
Why? Because I was already working on the script before you inserted yourself into it. Don’t get me wrong. I think its an improvement, and the Canuck angle really is underutilized. I just don’t think you’re grizzled enough.
Hey, you cowardly fuckhead, they’re your ridiculous questions.
I’ll recap them for you, because you’re a stupid sack of shit.
You wrote, presumably because you heard someone else say it, and this is the cleverest thing you’ve ever heard, being a stupid sack of shit and all:
Do you remember writing that, fuckhead? If not, scroll way up to comment 47.
Now, you answer those exact same questions, but about the Analects of Confucius.
Fixed that for you. We scientists know where the real science if found. In the peer reviewed scientific literature found in the library I linked to, not in web sites devoted to presupposing the inerrance of your babble. Presuppose being the key word here. Science is not presupposed. Ergo, if presupposition is required, it isn’t science. Not hard to figure.
Dano:
Oh yes, you do, you dishonest fuckwit. See Brownian’s post @ 141. Why don’t you, just fucking once, be honest? Tell the truth – you won’t answer because you can’t answer. You don’t know one single fucking thing which hasn’t been spoonfed into your brain. You don’t know one single fucking thing about that book of myths you venerate. If you did, you’d be able to answer my questions.
Here, I’ll give you the easiest: Why is the KJV of the bible the absolute worst translation? Why is it the most revered version of the bible by most christians? Why do said christians have no problem with the fact that King James was bisexual, preferred men and had known male lovers? (Yes, that means he had sex with men, Dano.)
Answer up or shut the fuck up.
You? You couldn’t tell me the fucking time.
Look, you dumb fuck: clearly you’re too stupid to understand satire. How about you only respond to me when I’m asking you a direct fucking question, and you restrict your response to answering that question? Can you handle that?
I don’t think you understand quite how little I think of you as a human being.
Suffice it to say that the only thing I want to read from you is the answer to the questions I put to you in 141.
“Anything yet or are you hiding or holding your words back because you have none,” you fucking hypocrite?
Brownian #135
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There’s more to the Canadian accent than throwing “eh” into each sentence.
I know that. There’s also saying ‘sorry’, especially when you’ve done no wrong.
Look, doofus, I clicked on and blockquoted your first link, and it provided no evidence whatsoever of any global flood, or ark, just that a sizable flood may have happened in the middle east “around the same time” as the bible story–which doesn’t really give any sort of accurate date.
Nothing in that story supported the idea of a great flood that covered the world’s highest mountains.
You’re dumb.
There were no facts in there, you arrogant science-illiterate moron.
Just what we might call idiot-opinion.
The worthless brainfarts of other gaseous, pointless, unused minds like yours. So inflated with stupid that they think their arrogant stupidity is actually humble.
It’s useless to tell you where they’re wrong, you “don’t like” (don’t have the brainpower it takes to understand) science. And you’re too fucking arrogant to admit that what you don’t undertand might actually be true.
Has dano answered the question about being ordered to kill people by god yet?
Or is that one of those things dano’s eyes keep skipping over?
Anri:
No. Dano’s right allergic to answering questions. He must not be praying hard enough, god’s not giving him the answers.
If it isn’t on the approved daily scripture list, Dano is blind to it. Those of us who really read the babble know what Yahweh really “thought”–or what his scribes wanted done. Dano is a perfect Sgt. Schultz from Hogan’s Heros. “I see nothink.”
Something tells me that dano is well on hir way to TZT. But then again, xe might be too stupid to realize xe’s been quarantined and attempt to escape like yec123.
Is this anything like being sent to the cornfield?
Janine: More like a dangerous animal being sent to quarantine.
But it is a real good thing to be sent to the cornfield.
Janine: Perhaps, but TZT also has thee other resident trolls for dano to play with.
Holy fucking shit piss fuck. Here is the opening to dano’s second link above, providing “evidence” for the global flood:
Notice that every fucking one of them assumes the truth of the bible story. Fuck.
Oh really? I’ll betcha parts of the Pacific Northwest would be damned interested to know that. Geez, even here, one Spring it rained every. fucking. day. for. 3. months. I was so sick of rain.
I do not think that A. R. got my joke.
Janine:
There’s a wide range of things xe doesn’t get. I wish I could wish dano into the cornfield. Oh yes.
Flood stories? Fuck. Just about all civilizations have flood myths because just about everyone have major cities sitting on a body of water, be it a lake, river, sea or ocean. And they all flood. But the benefits of water to drink, farming and transportation outweighs the losses.
As I pointed out, critical thinking does not come easily for dano.
What if “” were little (in comparison to an actual mountain) hills? Fairly typical for some of the regions flood stories came from.
Caine, it is very good that you want to wish that. Yes it is. Very good.
Janine: Never been a Twilight Zone fan, but I did watch the video. Found it rather odd.
Janine:
Yes. I have Happy Thoughts. Very Happy Thoughts.
About the flooding business, it’s all you say, along with the fact that thousands of years ago, people tended to consider a very small area to be “the whole world”.
Dano is a perfect Sgt. Schultz from Hogan’s Heros. “I see nothing.”
That’s not fair, Brownian. Schultzie saw nothing because he didn’t want any trouble.
Dano sees nothing in order to cause trouble.
(Schultzie’s English was better, too!)
Bloody blockquote fail.
Only the first line of my post #166 should be blockquoted.
Er, that was me, not Brownian.
Stardrake:
That was Nerd, not Brownian.
Ok, then dano:
I suspect you are being less than truthful here, but I’ll ask this of you once again (I think this is the 4th or 5th time, but maybe you missed it the other… and other… and other, and other, and other times.
If god told you to kill someone, would you?
There are follow-up questions, but that’s the biggie to start off.
Apparently those doofuses have never heard of monsoons.
For some parts of the world, it is normal to have non-stop rain for months. It happens every fucking year. And – shock, awe – no, it does not mean that there’s a global “flud”. It does not even reach base camp on the Everest, which is the highest fucking mountain in the world.
Kemist:
Well, people who don’t have a deathly fear of knowledge are aware of that little fact.
I spy with my little eye….
A prime example of unrecognized temperate climate privilege.
Amphiox:
Oh, I don’t know. Could be the standard Baffle ’em with bullshit, something which is very easy to do with xians.
I think it doesn’t even cross their minds that the whole thing is bunk. There’s just option A – the flud was global exactly as described in the wonderful fairy tale book, and option B – the flud was local and slightly exagerated by said book.
Those people really, really, really want it to be true, so much that they can’t even conceive on option C – the whole thing is a total invention.
It totally pointless to argue with them.
My favorite bit of evidence against the flud is how the Chinese and Egyptians failed to mention the flud in their records which start long before the flud is supposed to have happened. There’s not a word about how the entire populations of both places got killed.
Tis: But all of that was planted by Satan/faaaaaked!! by archeologists/created by pagans after the flud!
Who knew that by shutting down 99.9999% of my brain I too could think like a creationist?
Rain won’t let up. Forty days now! The water…it keeps rising! We cannot stop it. Drums, drums in the deep. We are doomed. We are doomed. We…ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Don’t you know? The Egyptians survived the flud by building two giant pyramids and climbing on top of them (the third smaller one was a failed prototype).
And the Chinese? That wall of theirs is no wall – it’s a dam!
I thought the pyramids were spaceship landing sites and the egyptians had escaped the flud with the help of aliens.
According to Stargate the Aliens enslaved the Egyptians, so they were probably trying to save their workforce.
Kemist:
It was the cats.
Caine :
Apparently I’m not the only one who’s starved for Futurama.
Kemist, the new season starts in June!
Here you go Caine. I hope this will now shut you up…sorry felt a little angry there.
Why is the KJV of the bible the absolute worst translation? Apparently according to chick.com the New King James is not a King James Bible at all. It changed thousands of words, ruined valuable verses, and when not agreeing with the King James Bible, it has instead copied the perverted NIV, NASV or RSV. And this you must know: those who translated the NKJV did not believe God perfectly preserved His words!
Why is it the most revered version of the bible by most christians? Well according to Biblestudytools they wanted to update the vocabulary and grammar of the KJV version, while preserving the classic style of the 1611 version. The KJV version made many changes in word order, grammar, vocabulary, and spelling. These words make it harder for most people to understand the stories. One of the most significant features of the NKJV was its removal of the second person pronouns “thou”, “thee”, “ye,” “thy,” and “thine.” Verb forms were also modernized in the NKJV (for example, “speaks” rather than “speaketh”).
I won’t answer the third question because you are just being a AZZ.
170 Anri asked If god told you to kill someone, would you?
I answered this in another post that most here have seen but here is my answer once again. Until a man or woman is placed in this situation no one can say for sure until you have all of the facts in front of you. I have been in situations that called for desperate measures and my calm and cool decision making got me through them unscathed. I can not give you a definitive answer and to be honest I don’t think anyone could that is a Xian.
Brownian, you seem to hate when I call you out but to be honest my answer in 139 probably stings a little so I understand. Those who are lost tend to forget what its like to know where you are going.
If you ask me honest questions I will give you honest questions but don’t ask me about things you know I won’t answer i.e. someone in the bible having homosexual relations and what do I think. I have also stated in other posts do what you want as long as is does not harm me or my family’s well being. That’s as honest as I can be. Now for those who gave me a piss poor answer to my question I shall ask it again. Please tell me why the bible has lasted so long, who wrote it and why?
A little quote about truth that I enjoy.
Kaffee: Colonel Jessep, did you order the Code Red?! Judge: You don’t have to answer that question! Jessup: I’ll answer the question. You want answers? Kaffee: I think I’m entitled. Jessup: You want answers?! Kaffee: I want the truth! Jessup: You can’t handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who’s gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom! You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don’t want the truth, because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! We use words like “honor”, “code”, “loyalty”. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said “Thank you,” and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to! Kaffee: Did you order the Code Red? Jessup: I did the job that—- Kaffee: Did you order the Code Red?! Jessup: You’re goddamn right I did!!
None of that verbal vomit justifies the murder of youth by she-bears.
Squeeeeeeeeeeeeee !
Only if I can find a way to watch it from this here canuckistan.
We’re stuck with canadian Comedy Central. Which has none of the good shows, or has them about five years after they’re first aired.
I’m gonna check if I can get it on iTunes. When I finally get my new power supply and can get my main computer back online.
Answer the questions, Dano or shut the fuck up.
Oooooh, a deeeeeep brain fart. This is getting close to full blown brain diarrhea.
Yes, I will admit it shit for brains : it’s very, very hard for me to understand what it’s like to be so stupid you think you know where you’re going when you don’t have a fucking clue.
Caine, dano will not answer because you are such an ass. What principles this troll shows; an inspiration for us all.
If only I could be like him.
*snort*
Hey, thanks. I’ve long felt that when one wants to learn about the meaning of truth, the go-to source is always a copy & paste quote from an old Tom Cruise movie.
Janine:
Yes, yes, he won’t answer anyone’s questions because we’re all such asses. :eyeroll:
Dano can’t seem to wrap that peabrain around the fact that we know why he won’t answer – he can’t. There’s nothing christians fear quite as much as thinking or knowledge. Knowledge, in particular, is a big no-no to El Shaddai. He wants his followers dumber than a box of hair and there’s certainly no learning or thinking for yourself, oh no! You do that and god gets all mad and has a hissy fit. Besides, El Shaddai just won’t provide Dano with a cheat sheet. All that prayin’ for nothing.
Caine, what questions have I not answered? And don’t give me any babble about molecules or JRR Tolkien.
feralboy12:
What? Christians always run to fiction for the truth.
dano: Could you please post on this thread instead?
By the way, you know absolutely nothing about the history of the Authorized version. It was translated from Latin Bibles, later ones were translated from materials closer to the source. That means that it is less accurate than several newer translations.
SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE FOR THE FLOOD AND EXODUS. Not from religious sites, but from the peer reviewed scientific literature. Needed to provide evidence your babble isn’t a book of mythology fiction. You can’t use any web site presuming the babble. Circular reasoning, which isn’t even logic for toddlers, much less mature adults, and skeptics like us.
2Kings 2:23-24
Oldie but a goodie.
What an ignorant and deluded nitwit you are.
You really have no fucking clue about the history of you own holy book.
I’ll bet you can’t even tell in what freaking language the main text of the NT was originally written.
dano:
The ones I asked you, dimwit. Jack Chick is not a viable source. Neither is biblestudy.com – that answer was utter shit.
Answer the last one, too. That’s not being an ass, fuckwit. It’s a legitimate question. The majority of christians in the U.S. are KJV only and while they foam at the mouth over GLBT people, they don’t seem to have the slightest problem with King James preferring men sexually. So answer the fucking question: why not?
Of course, we wouldn’t need translations if God hadn’t thrown that shitfit over some people building a lousy tower. And since he can communicate with us telepathically and shit, why rely on hand-copied books for so long? You’d think there would have been a download available from the very beginning.
Now there’s a waste of a valuable domain name. Dammit.
It’s funny I thought I would post to learn more about Atheists and their views. I came in open minded thinking that I don’t care that others call them close minded and not willing to listen to others. Instead the comments by 99% of you just confirmed their definition of an Atheist. Now I understand why you post up Youtube rants from people like CultofDusty. And you talk about not using correct grammar. Have you ever listened to Dusty, good lord. You need to stop spewing your hatred and listen for awhile. It is better to be thought a fool than to talk and remove all doubt.
Yes, I missed it the first time, thank you for responding.
Your answer to god’s command to kill is “maybe”, do I understand you?
You’re saying you might defer to your own judgment of a situation above god’s?
Or are you saying that you’d understand the correctness of god’s command but might suffer a failure of nerve?
Did Jesus carry a KJV Old Testament with him wherever he went?
dano then clarifies his question:
Well, dano, according to your reference, this bible was written no earlier than 1971; I couldn’t find a copyright date — legally defined as the date the work was fixed in tangible or reproducible form — on that site or on the publisher’s. Your reference site claims that the ESV was written with reference to the 1955 and 1971 RSV rewrites, among others: thus, 1971 is the earliest fixation date.
The publisher is in the USA, so US copyright law applies. Under US law, copyright lasts for 95 years for this kind of material, although a new Mickey Mouse copyright extension might lengthen the duration yet again. You bible should last at least 95 years, then, as long as the publisher finds it profitable (by whatever measure of profitability the publisher uses).
At most, your bible is 41 years old. I’m quite a bit older than that, myself. Why have I lasted so long?
The publisher does not identify the author(s), so we can’t say who wrote it, but the publisher does say some things that imply that it’s either the copyright owner (author or buyer), or is at least licensed by the copyright owner to sublicense the work. Just like most other bibles I’ve looked at, and the oldest ones, the authors cannot be determined with any sort of reliability and specificity.
Some, if not all, of the recent bibles are claimed, by someone associated with the authors, to have been written because those who financed the authors were not happy with what the other bibles said.
I see no reason to dispute this, although I suspect that other financial and political motives may have been involved. Your bible is a derivative work, at least in part, of some prior works in the public domain, so the publisher doesn’t pay license fees for the them: makes it more profitable in money terms.
So, dano, I’ve answered your three major questions, with no naughty words or anything. I’m not cassandra, but the rules around here allow any question, no matter how addressed, to be dealt with by anyone, in addition to or instead of the addressee. It’s now your turn to address the questions addressed to you. I know it’s not the answer-set you wanted, but it’s what you get.
That’s a dirty, dirty lie.
Isn’t lying a sin?
dano
Where?
When?
Sadly, dano fails at following its own advice….
You should really take your own advice dano.
SallyStrange:
Yes it is. It’s a filthy, foul, greasy, grimy, grubby, grungy, icky, lousy, mucky, nasty lie. God’s gonna have a hissy fit.
Sally: Lying isn’t a sin if it’s lying for Gawwd!
Another filthy, foul, greasy, grimy, grubby, grungy, icky, lousy, mucky, nasty lie.
You couldn’t be honest to save your non-existent soul, dano.
Oh. The. Irony. xD
Sarcosapien:
We’ve given up on trying to keep intact irony meters around here.
You haven’t seen hatred. Disdain, contempt, scorn, ridicule and insolence have been shown to you but no hatred. Don’t give yourself airs. You’re not worth the effort involved in hatred.
‘Tis:
To say the very least. Swatting a gnat hardly requires much investment of any energy.
Golly, what a change of pace for good ol’ Yahweh! Normally he’s so even-tempered…
SallyStrange:
Oh my yes. He also generally provides cheat sheets after only one prayer. I suspect all the lying Dano has done has gotten El Shaddai all manner of upset. Tsk.
That’s it.
My super-duper heavy-duty irony meter has just vaporized.
Oh, don’t be afraid, you didn’t learn anything. You stayed just as ignorant as you came in and can continue in your favorite delusions without any problem.
FYI, thinking the bible has all the answers is about as close-minded as someone can be. Close it some more and you’ll need a sense-deprivation tank.
What does that even mean.
I give up.
I don’t even know who that is.
But congrats, you’ve done very good work at confirming how very stupid, inane, ignorant and arrogant xians are.
Specimens like you are the reason people with a decent brain flee xianity as soon as they can.
kemist: I think the old LOLstar I gave you has a spare godbot proof irony meter in one of the cargo holds.
Kemist:
I’m right with you. Cult of Dusty? Never heard of it/them/she/he. Can’t say I’m interested in finding out, either.
Yeah, never heard of him either. And am I surprised to find that there’s an atheist who’s stupid and possibly offensive? Of course not. Unlike Christians, I make no claims about atheism making you into a better smarter person.
The only thing you can say about atheists is this: they’re right about god/gods. Who knows what the hell else they think.
My irony meter is made of uniforn farts.
After explosions it just … reforms … invisibly.
y’know?
A.R.
Ah, yes, the one with the log scale.
unicorn
and
Cult of Dusty doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page.
How pathetic is that?
kemist: Yep, that’s the one. Don’t take it anywhere near Darth Ratzo, Bill Donohue, William Lane Craig, or Pat Robertson though, because the meter can be thrown off by nearby sources of strong hypocrisy.
The old analog irony scale has been replaced by a digital one.
Irony is now measured in number of irony meters destroyed.
Amphiox
I still use a hand-cranked irony meter and it works very well.
So there.
(get off my lawn)
The English Standard Version is an interesting choice. It’s a revision of the Revised Standard Version. The RSV was the bible that was burnt by all the fundavangelists because it had the audacity to translate a word meaning “young woman” as “young woman.” The ESV makes it all better by mistranslating it as virgin.
The RSV is a pretty decent choice for a readable study bible but the language is really ugly because it preserves much of the syntax and idiom of the original Greek and Hebrew.
The RSV translators really did try to be fair and studious but of course they had plenty of decisions to make because of the many contradictions and obscure passages in the various sources. Unfortunately they weren’t biased enough for the average American and the main legacy of the RSV was to spawn a bunch of highly biased (not to mention dull and colorless) translations.
HEY, FUCKFACE: CASSANDRA AND OTHERS ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. HOW ABOUT YOU ANSWER THOSE SAME QUESTIONS FOR THE BOOKS WE LISTED, YOU COWARDLY ASSHOLE?
You wrote,
Now, you answer those exact same questions, but about the Analects of Confucius. And then you can tell us what you thought to prove with those questions.
But you show that there is no God to provide the answers when you evade.
See, it’s crap like this that shows that you’re a lying piece of shit.
If you wanted to learn more, you’d shut your fucking pie-hole and listen.
Instead, you write shit like “Brownian, you seem to hate when I call you out but to be honest my answer in 139 probably stings a little so I understand. Those who are lost tend to forget what its like to know where you are going.”
That’s not learning about someone else. That’s telling them what you already think they think. You think you’ve touched a nerve because I fear hell? I fear hell like I fear being put on Santa’s Naughty or Nice list.
Do you see how by doing crap this, again and again, you show yourself to be a despicable liar and a pathetic excuse for a human being? Why is honesty so difficult for you? Why are you so married to your lies and evasions? Why can’t you accept that yes, really we are a group of people that sees you and your books and your faith as peculiarly as you would a group of people who think Peter Pan was real. If you didn’t wield the political power you do as a result of Christianity being spread at the point of the sword, we wouldn’t care about you at all.
If Christianity taught you to be this kind of person, then it truly does needs to be eradicated like smallpox.
Brownian:
I’ve been viewing religion as a bad, failed hypothesis, a rotted husk of a worldview. The more of them that yap away like Dano, though, the more I’m coming to view it like smallpox. Toxic, all the way.
@ Dano
Who wrote the Bible? You ask. No simple answer to that for sure, but lots of regulars here have given you some answers. If the reading thing is a bit tricky for you here is a link to a BBC TV programme titled (guess what) “Who Wrote the Bible. So maybe 100 minutes of TV would be easier than reading all those 3+ syllable words.
Here it is: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2061773048178434620#docid=7785317849743909385
Stone me, you really do have to be mind-bogglingly stupid to think most Christians have ever even read the KJV. Look, dano shit-for-brains, most Christians do not speak English.
KG, I posed that question to Dano, about ‘merican christians.
Because someone told them it should be (assuming it even is).
I think that one possible reason for the popularity of the KJV version of the bible is the impenetrability of the prose to most modern readers. The language is beautiful but, at the same time, rather tortured and extremely dated.
For a minister, this means that few of his flock have actually read and grokked in fullness the bible. This means that his sermons can imprint his (or her) view of what the bible says onto the flock. It also means that bible study becomes an exercise in ‘this is what it means’ with the authoritarian minister providing the exegesis.
For the flock, it means that they have the perfect book, written in gods’ own tongue, a tongue that they have difficulty understanding but there are enough familiar words drifting through to give them confidence in the explanation their minister is providing.
This is my own useless opinion. Does anyone have personal experieces which could lend validation or show that I am on the wrong track? I’m really not sure, I’m basing this on conversations I had with peers back when I was in the bible belt (and I do know that anecdotes are not data).
Oggie, all I have is anecdata as well, however the two reasons I’ve heard most often are 1) Poetic language and imagery and 2) the translation is so bad, it’s easier to justify any nasty stance using the KJV.*
*This last has come from from former xians.
Oops, left one out. 3) Tradition. Seriously, new shit bad, old shit good.
Hmmm, do a search using ‘why the KJV only?’ and you’ll find a shitload of answers. It seems that Authorised in the KJV is taken extremely seriously.
There’s also a stew of Protestant vs Catholic messiness involved.
Caine:
Your #2 is the one that I tend support (though I have only anecdotal evidence).
The Pfft has a decent article on KJV-onlyism. It syncs well with my understanding.
The only aspect that it doesn’t cover is the not-so-subtle subthread that says that Satan inspired the other translations, leading to “mistranslations,” in order to confuse and divide the Faithful.
Esteleth:
That’s actually a *big* reason for many of the KJV only set, the Baptists in particular.
When I asked Dano, I was curious to see if he’d actually go and learn something. He didn’t.
Just re-watched the programme I linked to above and I’d forgotten that the presenter is a Christian theologian exploring the roots of his holy book. He doesn’t exactly become an atheist at the end of it (or maybe he does, he doesn’t say) but he certainly no longer sees the Bible as the inerrant word of god. It’s quite interesting because he still makes loads of assumptions (like Jesus existed) but nevertheless finds that actually the Bible is little more than propaganda.
Indeed, Caine.
That’s one of the things about the kerfuffle about the RSV. It wasn’t just a mistranslation, it wasn’t just a different-but-still-valid way of expressing the same meaning – it was a nefarious plot to deny the Virgin Birth.
Caine@234,
Oh, OK, my bad.
Esteleth:
Yeah, it’s a veritable snake pit of disagreement when it comes to the bible and all its versions and most people don’t even know about or care about all the cherry picking going on before the KJV and the rest.
Like I said, old shit good, new shit bad. It’s all incredibly silly. One thing I am curious about, though, is just how hung up the KJVer’s are on the “Authorised”. I find it rather odd that so many ‘merican xians, most of whom are rightwingers and jingoistic to the core, unquestioningly accept the authority of a long dead king of another country.
A long dead king of another country who liked sleeping with men, even!
it was a nefarious plot to deny the Virgin Birth.
*feigned shock and horror*
Esteleth:
Yes. When I asked Dano about why that doesn’t bother his GLBT hating kindred, he refused to answer because I was being an “AZZ”.
Oh, and a thought on Dano calling me an “AZZ”. It’s like a kid saying H-E-Double Hockeysticks. You’re still saying it. Is this an admission that their god is so intellectually challenged that spelling a word out or misspelling it will slip right by? My dogs are more intelligent that that.
I’m working on the screen-play, actually. You will be played by Liam Neeson, the role of God goes to Mel Gibson, and the role of Dano* will be reprised by Larry the Cable Guy.
Oooh! ooh!
Can I play Hell’s entertainment coordinator?
Gotta have USO-style entertainment for the troops!
Besides, I’ve already been running the endless B-grade sci-fi marathon in Hell for ever. I’m so ready to move on to something different!
Just to return to teh start of the thread for a moment:
The loins are the sides and back of the body between the ribs and pelvis. “Girding your loins” simply means putting on a belt to stop loose clothes/robes flapping around and getting in the way – something you would do before going into battle etc, and hence, metaphorically, to mean to prepare for action.
Just because the Bible (and others) uses “loins” as a euphemism for genitals doesn’t mean that is the only – or even the main – meaning. (I would have thought the main use of the word is in butchery/cookery, and it certainly doesn’t mean genitals there).
gravityisjustatheory
Well.
Aren’t you just a big, ol’, wet blanket.
*snif*
Huh?
[Goes to microwave, wherein pork loins are thawing. Opens door, inspects loins, realises gravityisjustatheory is right, throws loins in garbage.]
I fucking hate everything.
Well, there is a parallel thing with having mass and bible in latin for catholics. It made it unaccessible to laymen and made it easier for priests to assert their autority.
Brownian
I know where you are.
The fucking sun is shining.
The fucking snow is gone.
The fucking (fuckingfuckingfucking) birds are fucking singing.
What’s not to love?
Sastra wrote
There are drugs that give you a religious experience, called theogenic or entheogenic drugs.
Christianity was a really useful religion for rulers of oppressed peasants and owners of slaves. If things get bad enough, a free person can say, “Fuck it, I’ll die and be out of here.” But once he or she has internalized “must not commit suicide or will go to hell” they are stuck with whatever shit their rulers and masters dish out.
It was a beautiful day, wasn’t it chigau?
Brownian, it was, indeed.
Whee.
nan quanta miruelo!
Well, not LITERALLY.
Dano:
(in reference to sanctioned killing)
“Thou shalt not kill”
That’s pretty definitive.
The real question is who placed you in that situation and why. The best defense is never allowing yourself to be in a situation where you have to defend yourself. So who fucked up?
You take pride in having grace under pressure, in “calm and cool decision making”. Where the tips of the spears meet you used logic & reason (and some “luck”), you thought like a scientist. Are you getting my point?
Truth is that we are apes living on a planet that is rotating around a star, in a galaxy of a billion stars, in a universe filled with galaxies. We are born, we fuck and make babies, and then we die. The universe goes on. These are cold hard facts. All the other stuff, religion, politics, patriotism, “corporate-ism” are human constructs. We chose those, or they are chosen for us.
I prefer to give my own meaning to my life. It’s harder but it’s honest. It’s the truth.
No One:
You haven’t read the OT, have you? On the El Shaddai channel, it’s all killing, all the time. If you weren’t good and *didn’t* slaughter everything breathing for god, he’d kill you.
Apropos to the conversation, to anyone who hasn’t, pick up Drunk With Blood: God’s Killings in the Bible, by Steve Wells.
#265 Fleur Du Mal
But I wanted Dano to explain situational ethics for me…
No One:
I don’t think you’d get very far. Dano isn’t too good at answering questions. Prolly just call you an AZZ. ;)
A big part of the reason I think the bible has lasted so long is because it survived as a military document. Not a terribly coherent one, mind you, but certainly as one rife with tales of grizzly yet inspiring battles and mandates that can incense one with pious fury and fanatacism. One that became the central tenet of the Knights Templar, Knights Hospitallar, and Teutonic Knights among others. A book that can rile people into bloodthirsty if not genocidal frenzy, which with the aid of interpretation can be reapplied to contests involving opposing states in a variety of eras, thus allowing for the attribution of victory in battle to such canonized texts which can only reinforce these texts. Truth is the bible is vicious and it is in many ways what we today consider savage, while also being appealing in its vindiction and wild promises of rewards and paradise for those who submit to its barbarity. What’s more, it is not remarkable. The exact same could be said of the Quran, the Baghavad Gita, and many, many others.
Sure, it takes the belief of morons to believe wholeheartedly in fables that are without evidenciary support, but it can put them to use. And so the real interesting question I think is not why has the bible survived so long, but really is, why do we continue to bother with it?
… I’ve also been playing a lot of Medieval 2 total war…
“Like in ancient Jericho, the walls fall before the righteous! Into the breach to slay our ungodly foe!”