It’s hard to believe, but yes, there are Christians who are even worse than Ken Ham, and even more ignorant. Here’s one: Pastor Don Elmore of Union, Kentucky. He’s written a revealing screed against Answers in Genesis.
It starts gently enough, chatting about their rapid growth and praising AiG for their work against those wicked evolutionists. And then it goes off the rails.
I am aware of the forces supporting “Answers in Genesis”, these being the same powers that are supporting similar multi-cultural anti-Christian organizations such as Alpha, Promise Keepers, The Full Gospel Businessmen’s Association, Billy Graham ministries, producers of many modern Bible versions, and a multitude of other ministries. These forces are the anti-Christian powers seeking One World Government under man, not God. The essence of my criticism is to show that “Answers in Genesis” supports the humanistic and unbiblical “Brotherhood of Man” doctrine (which also is a Hindu/Roman Catholic/Masonic/Jewish/Judeo-Christian and World-Church belief).
Dang. He kinda hates everyone.
But what really has him worked up is miscegenation! These guys are really still around? The rest of this article is all angry rants about race mixing.
For instance, less than 60 years ago, mixed racial unions were illegal in most of the states in the United States and other White nations. But now, they are tolerated as being supposedly within God’s plan. Under the influence and promotion of the Jewish-Masonic-Papal-Communist/Socialist controlled governments and media, Western Christianity has succumbed to the approval of race mixing, and we will be looking at what is behind this. The Bible abounds with evidence of God’s clear will that the races be separate in every way. “Answers in Genesis” mould all its answers around Judeo-Christian doctrines and traditions, and claims a different basis and definition of “race” from that which the Bible gives. Furthermore, there is evidence of Jewish Talmudic sources, or of what the Apostle Paul calls “Jewish fables”.
That’s about as far as I could get without gagging. It wasn’t just the anti-semitism and the racism…it was that I was actually sympathizing with Answers in Genesis.
(Also on Sb)
Holy shit! Someone crazier than Ken Ham, and they are not locked up in a mental institution? Oh, wait, they closed them down, didn’t they. Put them out in the street to fend for themselves.
Wow, that does make Ken Ham seem a reasonable fellow.
That sounds like the kind of white separatist bullshit The Church of The Creator was spewing. I think they changed their name to the Creativity Movement a while back. Those really are some dangerous folks.
The scholar-priest Erasmus was once known for his espousal of Christian humanism, but today’s right-wing religious culture sees the term as an oxymoron and recoils against anything that smacks of respecting human rights (and thus they indeed turn “Christian humanism” into a contradiction in terms). The fact that Ken Ham can be accused of the taint of humanism is an indication of how far the extremists will go. While Ham himself is out there on the fringe of rationality, there’s a whole wacky wilderness of religious extremism beyond him. Scary thought.
Actually even before I got to the overtly racist part I suspected from his emphasis of the term “multi-cultural” (followed by a list of minority-friendly organizations) that his church is probably whiter than Wonder bread in a blizzard.
Totally doesn’t surprise me that he’s from Kentucky. I’m from Illinois myself, but I have enough relatives down there to know how bat-shyt crazy their churches can be.
Wow! My friend had a Black-Labrador/Samoyed cross. Does that make him the antichrist?
Ooooh, PZ, I can trump that with pure crazy!
Howabout a televangelist speaking in tongues on Facebook?
http://www.christianpost.com/news/televangelist-juanita-bynum-raises-brows-with-tongues-prayer-on-facebook-54779/
you have several groups to the right of aig.
not only neo-confederates like this guy but flat earthers and geocentrics.
as well as people like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Wilson_(theologian) and greenville seminary.
the neo-confederates are most accessible googling robert dabney who wrote defense of VA after the civil war, looking for his current fans.
interestingly those to the right of aig use exactly the same arguments directed at aig as aig does towards old earthers. mirror images.
Holy cow, four slashes and a hyphen! This guy’s on a holy roll!
He appears to have forgotten to mention the illuminati, the masons, teh gheys, space-aliens, and Sussex county-council.
He’s not Ken Spam … he’s Satan …
Wow, that does make Ken Ham seem a reasonable fellow.
If Ken Ham was REALLY smart, he’d hire this guy for an “overton window” opportunity to make himself look reasonable.
OTOH, it wouldn’t surprise me if AIG actually DID hire clowns like this for just that reason.
No doubt “Pastor” custard-head would feel just dandy to be on a hunting trip at Rick Perry’s dad’s hunting ranch. He’d probably even bleat something about being sorry there were no heads to shoot at.
The covenant of God’s Covenant People is listed on the Southern poverty Law Center’s website as a Christian Identity group, confirming what can be inferred from the cited passage.
Their basic belief is that the lost ten tribes of Israel migrated to northern Europe and becomes the ‘Aryan’ peoples. The Jews that Ezra led out of the Babylonian captivity were not real Jews but an Asiatic mongrel race. Blacks are descended from the offspring of Eve and the serpent and are not true human beings at all. Christian Identity is also the main ideological and practical support of the American neo-Nazi movement and of the Patriot movement.
They make Ken Ham look positively sane and harmless.
Slightly related, I draw people’s attention to the BBC’s Mixed Race Britain season.
I just won Conspiracy Bingo.
If only he’d thought to work in the UN, feminists, and the Reptilians somehow…
Now he’s switching to predominantly hyphens. Come on, aim for consistency, man.
OK, the usual suspects, nothing surprising (much)
eh, what? Didn’t you already mention them just the slash before that?
Eh, wait a minute pal, aren’t you claiming to follow the Bible, the basis for “Judeo-Christian doctrines”? I think I lost you in the last hairpin curve.
Oh, never mind.
@Daz
No, no, they are here, don’t worry. I saw the Masons between the Catholics and the Jews, and I’m sure the others are hiding between the communists and the Hindus.
Here’s a fun little article about the church he’s affiliated with, published some 6 years ago in the Cincinnati Post:
Something something something Christian Identity movement something something Branson, Missouri.
Heliantus
Oops! Damned masons, hiding from me in plain sight like that. Sneaky little sods, they are.
Don’t you love it when totally crazy people start talking about how wrong others are. Who would have thought that their parents would have let them grow up.
Christian Identity Movement?
ah, that explains it then.
dregs of the dregs.
You’re not a bigot if you hate everybody equally.
I love it when the Nazis start brandishing their Christianity.
Impressive. I’d say he’s about 1.3 Hams from center, politically speaking.
Well, it started when white Europeans built these big ships and sailed to a continent populated by people of a different race.
The black people mostly had to be brought here forcibly from Africa.
Duh. Ask me a harder one next time.
Wow. This guy quotes approvingly from “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”. Pastor Elmore is EPA Superfund Site toxic!
My head began to melt when he listed most of the cultures that had to do with the bible and then cites the bible and I had to stop reading.
Fables! Enough already with these old Jewish fables!
If Ken Ham were to somehow become, Nehemiah Scudder-like, Dictator and Prophet-for-Life, things would be bad, but I really don’t think he’d be lining people up against walls and shooting them. He’s a huckster and a fool, but not intrinsically evil. Pastor Don Elmore, on the other hand, I’m pretty sure would be doing exactly that. Oh, and Ken, being Australian, isn’t eligible right now to be elected President. Don Elmore I’ll bet is sure to be a native born American. Wonderful!
A racist anti-semitic pastor? In Kentucky??
(Let me guess. Hates Jews and yet preaches from the Torah)
Don Elmore I’ll bet is sure to be a native born American. Wonderful!
at last check, depending on who you ask, there are between 50 thousand and over 600 thousand Americans who identify as Christian Identity Movement adherents.
pretty fucking scary eh?
know your enemy:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/cr_ident.htm
Hates Jews and yet preaches from the Torah
no.
they think the standard bible was rewritten by jews to mask the “true christian religion”.
don’t ask me what they substitute with, I really don’t want to know.
Wow, someone who thinks that AiG is not conservative enough. Never thought I would see the day
It probably would have been fun to watch him foaming at the mouth when Obama was elected. Might have pushed him over the edge.
PZ, time to get out your sword of cold reason and lash of ridicule. And don’t forget the funny hat, to help them see the light.
“Jewish-Masonic-Papal-Communist/Socialist”? That guy must have interesting family reunions.
This guy reminds me of the 1930s Catholic catechism that I had as a kid, which contained a rant about the Carnal Jews of Today™. Naturally I converted on my way to atheism – who could pass up the opportunity to sample the pleasures of being a CJOT?
As far as I can recall the only ‘white’ countries that legally banned marriages between races in the last 60 years were many (but not quite all) states in the US, South Africa, and Rhodesia. Last 70 years would have added Germany.
Ugh, one of the liars in charge at this church is from my (and PZ’s!) home state of Washington. Now I feel bad. I assure you, our rate of disbelief is one of the highest in the country!
He does eventually mention the Illuminati.
Bat-shit-insane does not begin to cover it. More like mammoth-shit-insane.
Oh for cryin` out loud! This trumps the crazies I live around :) but alas, it seems that bullshit is bullshit no matter where you live. Around here if you’re an atheist you’re part of the “judeo-masonic-new-world-order-satanic-homosexual conspiracy to overthrow christianity”. Sound familiar?
@ Juanita Bynum (via Stevarious linky)
Roman Cypher 14? Teh xtians have been talking a lot about C14 recently …
{*googles*}
Oh wait, it’s just a railway siding in the south of Wales.
……………………………………
This looks like the typical game of brinkmanship that xtian leaders play. They seem to instinctively realise there is a finite supply of suckers out there. They fall all over each other to be closer to the authentic jeebus. On tv channels like godtv, you see a slow transformation in language. They are now speaking in tongues, calling jeebus “Yeshau”, speaking some kind of pseudo-aramaic, having in depth discussions of teh end times… all of this in a familiar, quotidian way. Oy Vey.
…………………………………
@ Zinc Avenger
Mmmh, perhaps we have a new metric for idiocy. We could indicate this with Η (eta … “eta” ham , geddit?) with Piglet as the standard measure.
“pi = 4” would be .0010 μΗ
“pigs on wing” would be 0.0017 μΗ
In principle this could work if we used a logarithmic scale (I presume this is what you used here.)
I’m just getting so tired of the term “race.” Even though I’m mostly of European descent and my wife is Asian, I don’t believe I’m in a mixed-race marriage. Mixed ethnicity? Maybe. But we’re both members of the human race.
And our kids are beautiful.
It’s just a paint job. Maybe that’s a better term; I’m in a mixed paint-job marriage. Where I live, hardly anyone cares.
So, of course, Pastor Elmore’s comments just make me more ticked than normal. Bring back punishments for mixing paint? Yeah, stuff it, dimbulb.
He’s Fred Phelps’ evil twin brother separated at birth.
They are hiding behind the fnords.
If the Christians actually made the claim that the Christian Identity Movement “are no true Christians”, in this case, I think I would allow them that one.
these clowns are just xenophobic freaks to the nth degree.
I’m pretty sure they don’t even get non-profit status for their “church”.
especially since the FBI considers them a terrorist group.
http://vault.fbi.gov/Christian%20Identity%20Movement%20/Christian%20Identity%20Movement%20Part%201%20of%201/view
^from the wiki, but based on the FBI stuff.
yeah, like I said, I’d give the christains the no true Scotsman argument for these guys.
Ha. First of all, they want the most beautiful part of the country. I don’t think so. Second of all, they think there’s enough of these jerkwads for that big an area. Tell you what, we’ll let you guys have the Berkeley Pit.
Dammit, PZ! Now I’m sypathizing with Ken Ham! Are you trying to drive me crazy?!
As appalling as this guy is, I’ve recently been noticing that in American TV more often than not there aren’t a heck of a lot of multicoloured relationships and if there are, they tend to be white-asian or white-latino or black-asian etc., not black-white.
Worse, if there are two black character in an ensemble show, they are more likely to end up together than with one of the other characters and/or their chosen partner will usually be not white. Is this reflective of society in the US? Or is this some kind of holdover among writers/casting agents/producers?
It’s certainly not reflective of society in the UK. However, the tv in UK is actually more representative.
So radical is makes AGI look like humanists.
That’s the closest thing to miracle I’ve ever seen.
trust me, you don’t want to be using the Christian Identity movement as indicative of anything but sheer insanity.
TV, OTOH, is really not meant to BE a representative medium.
it’s full of fictional characters, laces, histories, etc, etc, remember?
that said, I would care about discrimination in hiring, but we have laws to cover that, and there’s also a quite potent actor’s union.
Wasn’t the Talmud written after the apostle Paul? Not that this whacko follows any logical consistency.
There is somewhat of a delicious irony in the fact that if there really was a historical jesus this asshole probably wouldn’t be seen with him or even acknowledge him cuz he’s, you know, brown…
Teshi says:
5 October 2011 at 6:32 am
As a young British child growing up in England, I was completely ignorant of the racial issues in the US. But despite (or maybe because of) that I noticed what you described, and thought it strange. To me it seemed as odd as if people were always paired up by hair colour or height.
When a guy uses as many “scare-quotes” as this guy does, you can tell he knows shit-all about what he’s talking about and to me it felt like the guy was kind of subconsciously scared and trying to detach himself from the hatred he’s spewing.
Kentucky has snake handlers.
They get bitten by their snakes occasionally and sometimes die. IIRC, one in Kentucky died a few years ago.
The Church of the Creator got a bad reputation when a couple of its members went on a killing spree and murdered a few people for not being white enough.
@Zugswang
I have been trying to reach http://www.rickross.com/ from Mexico, but the site seems to be down for some time.
Can you see the link you provide?
http://www.rickross.com/reference/hate_groups/hategroups399.html
nanahuatzin,
I’m in BCS. No problem. Faster than usual download.
323
“Blacks are descended from the offspring of Eve and the serpent and are not true human beings at all.”
Wait! …what?…bestiality in the bible?…does that not make it mandatory?
Well it is in the bible….afterall…and Cain was a fact sooooo!!!!
All in all…’beeetch fffiiight’….gets popcorn & pops a tube!
Fucking barking insanity never so fucking banal!
MikeM
This almost tempts me (dark skinned) to procreate (with my mostly european SO). Yep, my mothering instinct is not overly strong.
On the funny side, it reminds me of my optimistic mother trying to work out what shade my kids would be while caramelizing some sugar.
Proof: No matter how deep you dig, there’s always a layer farther down.
Now these guys are just making shit up the suits thei ………….oh right! never mind.
You’ll know they are Christians by their
lovehate.The rock this guy crawls out from under every day has fallen on his head once too often.
Never has the expletive “holy crap” seemed more appropriate.
Always on about the Masons. Having seen the Magic Flute z dozen times, I thought that they were Forces for Good.
Didn’t Winston Churchill say, when Hitler invaded Russia, that if Hitler were to invade Hell he would at the very least make a favourable reference in the Commons to the Prince of Darkness?
Uhm … the guy is clueless about the concept of ‘immaculate conception’ as well! ‘s Got nothing to do with eggs (nor sperm).
It’s about Mary being without original sin.
(He probably thought of ‘ejaculate’ hee hee hee)
Another Kentuckian. Sigh…
Can’t we ship some of these guys off to West Virginia?
Before reading this piece, the banner ad at the top (Daily Bible Guide!) caught my eye.
Two of the three side ads are “Where’s God’s Church?” and “Become an Ordained Minister”.
It’s as if the site itself is trying to fight PZ on this one.
Let them eat their own.
@38
You must live on the wet side of the state. Over here in hickville on the east side of the mountains, non-belief is still a heresy. Washington has the third-largest population of Mormons in the US, there are all sorts of odd SDA offshoots, a scattering of Mennonites, and a lot of Roman Catholics due to the influx of migrants from Mexico. Then up by Spokane there’s sadly a trickle of the white supremacists coming in from northern Idaho with the Christian Identity movement.
This is one reason I encouraged my daughter to go to UW- she’s a lot more likely to find like-minded thinkers over there.
Well, about the only thing going for them is that their creation story is a little more consistent* than the mainstream fundie version. Other people at the same time as Adam and Eve! OMGWTFBBQ!
*No, not giving them any passes, bigoted fucks.
I wouldn’t have believed it possible, but this Pastor Don Elmore jerk has actually acheived a new nadir of bigotry and religious insanity (not to mention inanity).
The only question now is; will Ken Ham take this lying down? Or will he fight to regain his crown of ‘teh craziest xian evah!’
My immediate thought was of the Buffy/Angel verse that had that. I’m struggling to remember other ones.
Borked the block quotes. The last paragraph was mine.
Re Dax @ #9
Let’s not forget the Bilderbergers and the Council on Foreign Relations.
Don’t forget the Big Boat event where god invented genocide.
Only 8 people made it through, all from Noah’s family.
Not sure how this fits in with Pastor Eyores hate filled
theologydelusions. Or care.@ UpAgainstTheRopes
I would like you to explain your comment on this thread: Linky.
Alert: NSFW
I wouldn’t say he’s necessarily crazier than Ken Ham. I’d just say he looks a little strange without his white sheet. He’s a dead ringer for the warped psychology of the KKK.
Wow, that the first time I’ve clicked on a link and the computer has shown a message saying “Are you sure? I’m scared.”
He thinks Ham is wrong about there having been a worldwide flood. Other than that, he makes Ham look rather reasonable.
He’s a dead ringer for the warped psychology of the KKK.
that would be because the Christian Identity Movement modeled itself ON the KKK.
Is that a serious question?
“You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.”
…Actually, in this case, strike the “those”.
Fables? We don’t need no stinking fables.
Now I’m confused. I thought the homosexualists, with their homosexual agenda, controlled the government and media.
Is that a serious question?
you should have quoted the stats there.
for people who grew up without overt racism, they simply won’t get that this is STILL A BIG PROBLEM IN THE US.
here:
yes, that’s right.
shall I repeat that again?
you will find similar stats in Georgia, Alabama, North and South Carolina, probably Kentucky….
yes, there are a great many people still in the US that train their kids to think that the Civil War is still not over.
It sure is. And despite the stereotype, its not just in the south either. I grew up in MI and it was there. Some subtle, some blunt but its there alright.
I grew up with simple rules really; children are seen and not heard, women don’t speak unless spoken too, and you should call a spade a spade aka never let the niggers get uppity.
UGH. There’s more but damn that brings up horrible memories. I was branded a race trader and ran away to be with my friends in Detroit.
I worry about fucked up people like this giving my child a hard problem because she’s mixed. I have had people ask me “Didn’t you think about what that would happen to a child growing up like that?
Oh and my child and I are in Phoenix, AZ. Its all over the country.
I once heard a comment by a not (consciously) racist person about a young couple looking strange together. Why? Hair color. One very light and the other very dark. Their ancestry was probably Northern European vs. Southern European, not European vs. African. In the US, racism is very, very deeply imbedded in the culture. I’m sickened by the fact that some is surely in my subconscious too.
Leslie in Canada
Depends on who’s playing the Queen of the Night.
theophontes # 79:
The comment you linked was made by “UAgainstTheRopes”, the comment above (#49; the person you referenced) is “UpAgainstTheRopes”.
I suppose it’s possible that the same person created two accounts with a misspelling on one, but it is probably an imitator.
@helenaconstantine : (5 October 2011 at 1:48 am)
What. The. FUCK!?!
Now I’m certainly no Bible (or Torah) scholar but I’m pretty damn sure there’s no Eve-Serpent hanky-panky described in the OT. Not that I recall. Is there??*
So where the hell (other than their own putrid backsides) are these pitiable but ever so ugly fools claiming to be pulling that particular metaphorical turd from?
Also given the Devil is a fallen angel with superpowers & all wouldn’t that mythological ancestry mean the Blacks were *superior* to whites & all .. y’know like how Spock is superior to full humans?
Hmm .. Is that why they can dance and jump so much better? ;-)
—————
* OTOH, that would make a far better reason for Eve getting kicked out of that Garden, y’know doing the beast with two backs – one obviously ve-ery long – with God’s greatest rival behind God’s back.
@ Alison S : (5 October 2011 at 5:40 am)
If they are twins even with this guy there’s no way Fred Phelps can be the “good twin” – the identical clone of Phelp maybe?
@Ichthyic : (5 October 2011 at 10:17 pm)
Yikes.
I do find that hard to believe. Those stats are really for this century? Taken by reliable methods not, say, limited to a survey of the local KKK membership and Confederate war re-enactors?
Guess it probably *is* a valid survey but ..I certainly don’t want to beleive it.
Although :
@ Margaret : (6 October 2011 at 12:46 am)
Yeah, mine too. [Slowly raises hand.]
I fear / think racism is probably just part of human nature. Sad but true?
PS. @ Margaret : (6 October 2011 at 12:46 am)
Not just the US.
In Australia too – and I’d say almost all nations / ethnicities / cultures on the planet. I suspect so anyhow. I’d like to be mistaken about this.
StevoR @ 94
I don’t think racism, per se, is part of human nature, but the tendency to divide people into various groups and consider one’s own group superior is part of human nature. Physical distinctions are a very easy way to make that division, but other distinctions, such as religion, sexual orientation, habits, disability, neurological differences, education, class, and so forth are also bases of discrimination. I can see racism dying out some day. Sadly, I can’t really see discrimination in the general dying out, though we can fight to minimize it as much as possible. People will always find some difference to divide humanity into us vs. them.
It makes sense to me to think that discrimination in general is rooted in some flock-mentality in our evolutionary past. But I’m no expert on these things, nor have I read much about it. As the commenter above pointed out, it is easy in our society to distinguish on external and easily observable differences.
But on the other hand there is more to it than just that. Racism has also been about other races being deemed inferior and sexism has been about women being inferior. This cannot be so easily explained by the above I think.
As for racism and its place in culture, I think the place I grew up was pretty free from racist ideas. There are reasons for that though. It was a small town where we all were white Europeans. When early in the 80s a few men from Africa stayed (mostly people working on boats), they married local women and had mixed race kids which I grew up with. These people were the cool ones for some reason. That defused the whole potential racism issue—at least in my generation. Also, my home area is quite religious and a lot of the older generation supported missionary work, mostly in Africa, so people of colour weren’t looked down upon in general—other than being damned heathens that is …
But maybe my background is rather unique? These people aren’t particularly tolerant in general, plenty of sexism and gay-hate going about.
At first I thought that this HAD to be a Poe, but now I see that there are people even crazier and stupider than Ken Ham. Who, incidentally, has the temerity to label evolutionists as racist.
He probably wouldn’t consider mongrel dogs to be wrong, because like all creationists, he considers humans to be intrinsically special over other animals, instead of realising that we have a more advanced nervous system and brain capable of generating the abstract though required for what we consider sentience, as well as the ability to delude ourselves into thinking that everything was created specifically for us, instead of us just evolving to suit the environment we are in.
And some creationists wonder why atheists tend to think that they are smarter than creationists, when this douche is around. He is probably one of those cretards who thinks that the guy who thinks that he is the reincarnation of jesus can’t be because, and I quote “his hair and eyes are dark with sin, whereas jesus had brown hair and blue eyes”.
Yep, according to the american version, which is so ‘super-white’ it practically glows in the dark. Jesus, if he even existed, was born in the middle-east, meaning that he would have had dark brown eyes (no idea about the specific hair shade, although it wouldn’t be too hard to guess), along with fairly dark skin.
Keep it up you cretards, I need a good laugh every now and again.