A professor at the University of Minnesota, Steven Miles, is offering a $1000 reward for the name and release of the medical records of the person Michele Bachmann says became mentally retarded after getting the HPV vaccine. I’d like to see that, too.
One unexpected consequence of Bachmann’s accusation: Rick Perry is now defending science.
Perry himself has weighed in. “You heard the same arguments about giving our children protections from some of the childhood diseases, and they were, autism was part of that,” he told NBC News. “Now we’ve subsequently found out that was generated and not true.”
I guess Rick Perry just lost Jenny McCarthy’s vote.
Next debate, I’d like to see Bachmann promote creationism and pooh-pooh global climate change, just for the unusual spectacle of seeing Republicans rushing to puncture her claims by citing real science.
But that diseases are caused by germs is just a theory, Perry? How can you accept something that doesn’t even explain all diseases, when you know that evolution isn’t important even though it is needed to explain every organism and its relationships to other organisms?
I’m so disappointed in you Rick. If you can’t take a principled stand against science, you’re just conceding that the “materialists” must be right, and that evidence is even important.
Glen Davidson
No doubt Rick can spin this into an attack on science by the loony left, despite the lunacy having come from the mouth of Michele Bachmann. Obviously she’s been listening to those liberal Hollywood types. Of course Perry believes in science; it’s just those leftists that pollute it with their political agendas like global warming and evolution. Remember: to these people, any science they disagree with is politics, not science.
I have a horrible suspicion that professor Miles will soon be under attack by Palinistas. The charge? Trying to subborn the illegal release of a private medical file. It would be bullshit, but you just know that someones, somewhere, is gonna try.
Wife says I have become more cynical. I wonder why?
I’m being good and keeping my mouth shut, but my thought bubble says ‘I wonder if Michelle Bachmann’s mother is going to try and claim that money?’
There’s no evidence that HPV vaccine has any correlation with mental retardation. There is, however, a strong correlation between listening to Michele Bachmann and insanity. Just an observation…
It’s so entertaining to watch these goofballs stumble over each other to appeal to such a stupid base. Trying to satisfy so much convoluted & contradictory nonsense simultaneously is as silly as the idea that there are ‘sophisticated theologians’ out there that we’re always avoiding interviewing. These people just know their intuitions are right—reality be damned!
The Daily Show and Colbert Report are gonna be so much fun this year!
Perry cited real science?
There MUST be a Hell, because it just froze over.
Oh my, but this is odd… science and Republican politics make strange bedfellows…
Only because he is financially rewarded for sales of particular vaccines thanks to his stock holdings. Even the support of the Tea Party isn’t worth losing money to him.
Don’t be gloating too soon on Perry towing the science line of vaccines. You can bet than in a difference situation, surrounded by his ignorant tea-bagger supporters, he will say something that completely contradicts these previous statements and falls right back in line with the GOP anti-science platform.
If you wander on over to Kevin Drum’s blog you’ll see that Perry’s change of heart and embrace of medical science happened after a big infusion of cash from a drug company to his campaign and a Republican group he’s part of in Texas.
Once again. Republicans talking about science is like children talking about sex. Sometimes, they are accidentally right!
Just $1000? I think he’d be safe offering lots, lots more than that.
So that’s how you get Republicans to promote fact-based, peer-reviewed science!
You arrange for their rivals to froth at the mouth as usual, then provide and opportunity to rebut the frothing.
A nice, sweet dollop of money also helps.
What doesn’t work is simply presenting them with facts and with peer-reviewed publications.
What doesn’t work is having a scientist or a democrat debate them.
What doesn’t work is to have a scientist on the school board of their state explain the issue to them.
But competition for top dog, sweetened with moola? That works.
Just heard on the radio, WCCO where everything is sometimes true, that the former boss of Steven Miles who now is at a university in Pennsylvania has upped the reward to $10,000.00. Anybody have more info or more reward. If a bird tells me something it must be true?
I think I get it now. The GOP is parading Bachmann around to make Perry look sensible. Oh, and we’re all doomed.
Rey Fox @16 – That may actually be a possibility. several of her top campaign resources a couple of weeks back, which is pretty suspicious since she was doing well at the time.
I think the last sentence is unlikely.
The name of the person is Michele Bachmann.
Now how do I collect the money?
I think that this is just a case of Perry letting someone else test this particular rung on the ladder to crazy. If it holds up in the voting base, or more importantly, in the donating base, then this will become the accepted party line.
…and Bill Maher’s
Geez, the level of scientific discussion on this issue is so incredibly low… the Ocar blog included.
Look, if there’s any problem with the HPV vaccine, it’s that it only protects against a limited subset of the HPV genotypes. This is a genetically diverse virus, including a wide variety on non-oncogenic forms as well as many oncogenic forms. So, read this from the Lancet, Feb 2010:
“Human papillomavirus vaccine prevents infection by two major oncogenic types of the virus. Continued screening is needed in vaccinated women to prevent cancers caused by high-risk types not included in the vaccine. An exaggerated sense of protection from the vaccine could lead to a decline in the rate of screening among vaccinated women, which in principle could lead to an increase in the incidence of cervical cancer.”
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1473309910700049
Girls are very wrong if think they can safely engage in unprotected sex after being vaccinated with the Merck product, or that they should abandon normal cervical cancer screening. In other words, the issue isn’t the safety of the vaccine, it’s the efficacy of the vaccine. Similar problems exist with prospective HIV vaccines, with influenza virus vaccines, etc. The high mutation rate of these viruses is what leads to such problems.
Of course, any vaccine can result in systemic negative reactions due to a highly reactive immune response, this has always been the case, and if that happens, prompt medical care (sometimes using immunosuppressive drugs) is called for. The risk is very low but always present, and if untreated, neurological damage is indeed a possible outcome (probably due to high fever). Individual genetic variation plays a big role in this, of course. Vaccination is a medical procedure, and requires medical monitoring.
Come on, people…
Come on, you. Yawn, we’ve heard it all before, everything you said. Think about that before another long post without any new information.
Well, if it’s not very effective, why would Rick Perry make it mandatory, other than that Merck gave him some money? What is that, legalized bribery?
Likewise, why does Rick Perry deny climate science? Probably because some fossil fuel lobbyists gave him some money, right? Even as Texas goes into permanent drought as the subtropical circulation expands polewards.
That’s no supporting science, that’s taking bribes.
Is the man incapable of speaking in complete, coherent sentences?
Ike, how many lives can be saved with a less than perfect vaccine compared to nothing. Cogitate about that before your next religious statement. Anti-vaxers sound the same as godbots. Belief without solid evidence.
The thing is, there’s a (possibly) more effective vaccine on the market, Cevarix (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/14/michele-bachmann-hpv-vaccine). It’s not the one Perry chose. I have no problem believing Perry did it in exchange for a campaign contribution. It’s what he does.
But the issue PZ was writing about was Bachmann making false claims about Gardasil’s side effects.
ikesolem:
Straw-dummy.
I suspect the either vaccine would be accepted. If he specified just Gardisil, it is a problem, and distinct conflict of interest.
I had my flu shot today. Not a perfect vaccine, but a very useful tool for us old farts (the ones who remember pre-polio vaccine days, and going to school with other kids with braces due to polio) to avoid/reduce problems over the winter. Better than nothing.
If you’d read the Lancet article, you’d understand how an imperfect vaccine that gave one a false sense of protection could actually increase the incidence of cervical cancer in the general population:
“Adherence to cervical screening in the era of human papillomavirus vaccination: how low is too low?
Chris T Bauch DrPhD (a), Meng Li MSc (b), Gretchen Chapman PhD (b), Alison P Galvani PhD(c)
a)Department of Mathematics and Statistics, University of Guelph, Guelph, ON, Canada
b)Department of Psychology, The State University of New Jersey, Piscataway, NJ, USA
c)Department of Epidemiology and Public Health, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, CT, USA
The Lancet Infectious Diseases
Volume 10, Issue 2, February 2010, Pages 133-137”
It’s also rather bizarre that a conservative Republican would encourage young girls to run around having sex, unprotected or not, isn’t it? I guess as long as you follow the Catholic Church guidelines and refuse to use condoms, it’s all okay?
This is also a guy who would like to eliminate all public health programs involving regular screening for diseases (not just for cervical cancer). Imagine his (or Bachmann’s) response if free public screening for cervical and breast cancer and other diseases was proposed for Texas? Howls of outrage about the rising tide of communism, right?
In any case, being “pro-” or “anti-” vaccination is an idiot’s game. Every vaccine must be evaluated individually – and trusting some Merck marketing campaign makes no sense at all.
I heard that Perry was originally a Democrat.
Perhaps he’s reverting to old, ingrained habits.
Nah.
It’s very safe for a candidate to make claims of any kind regarding a person’s medical history. Wanna know why? The records can not be released without express consent of the patient and then only in certain, very circumscribed, circumstances. Ever heard of HIPAA? Medical records go public like that? Millions of dollars in fines.
Borborygmus Bachmann can make all the claims she wants about anyone, real or fictional, because there is no way to disprove or prove her claims. Unless the patient comes forth publicly. In this case it is very likely the patient is a figment of her campaign people’s collective imaginations.
By the way, there’s also evidence that reckless sexual behavior leading to increased spread of HIV and AIDS has also been encouraged by the availability of anti-retroviral drugs and the resulting sense of security they engender.
Curiously, from the religious adherents of free-market ideology, this is not such a bad thing. HIV maintenance programs run some $3000 a month, and every new infection is a gift that keeps on giving to the ARV patent holders and their associated manufacturers.
In fact, an actual cure for HIV would be a disaster for the industry, financially speaking. Maintaining an infected individual for ten years is far more profitable than any one-shot cure or vaccine, from the dollars and cents perspective.
For more on the rising tide of new HIV infections in the era of antiretroviral drugs:
http://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-health-news/2011/09/02/lord-fowler-calls-for-new-1980s-style-aids-awareness-campaign-65233-29340467/
“In the last 25 years the development of new drugs has dramatically reduced the death toll but that should not encourage a false sense of security.“
ikesolem:
What a stupid, stupid insinuation you make, O conspiracist.
(Hint via analogy: stomach ulcers and Helicobacter pylori)
ikesolem:
Hm. A couple of observations:
First, you claim there is such evidence, but you don’t adduce any.
Second, even if there were, would that make such anti-retroviral drugs somehow undesirable?
Ike, you are sounding like a religious tool, be it godbot or liberturd. Try the real scientific literature, and not newspaper articles. That might convince us, not propergander.
What do you know? White man politician speaks with $$ tongue. Surprise, surprise, surprise!
Do I see running mates here? Scary Perry and Bonkers Bachmann. What a team! What a ticket!
Well, if that isn’t a sign of the impending apocalypse, I don’t know what is. Smoke ’em if you got ’em.
So I went and read the article that Ike referenced re decreased screening and the HPV vaccine. First, it is not a report of decreased screening, it is a modelling of how the trade off between protection and decreased screening might work. You can read the article if you want the details, but their conclusion is as follows: “Introduction of vaccine is unlikely to lead to an increased incidence of cervical cancer as a result of diminished screening.” Basically, even with a very imperfect vaccine, it would take an unrealistically large decrease in screening to result in more cervical cancer cases than pre-vaccine.
@ikesolem:
So you mention that Gardasil isn’t the most effective vaccine, but then you veer wildly into “But they’ll have teh sexy! And probably get cancer anyway!”.
Surprise surprise. Do you lie awake in bitter watches of the night, when all your life seems to shrink, the walls of your bower closing in about you like a hutch to trammel some wild thing in, worrying that somewhere out there is a slut who isn’t getting the cancer she deserves?
Is it me or is autism not at all a form of “retardation”? I’m pretty sure but hey, I’d have to ask my roommate, she works with autistic children.
4a4a: In a word, no.
4theist4narchist @41:
You think Michele Batshit knows (or CARES) about the difference? Her ignorance is an amazing thing…
Autism isn’t retardation, but Bachmann’s cobwebbed brain might have confused the two.
Posted on facebook
Steve Miles: “Art Caplan raised my offer by 10K
about an hour ago”
Oh really? I doubt that any evidence exists except in Ikesolem’s sick little mind.
The latest data is that ARV treatment reduces HIV transmission by an incredible 96%. A lot of computer models indicate that early, routine treatment of HIV+ people would end the HIV epidemic even if nothing else is done.
In fact, with widespread use of HAART (ARVS), worldwide new HIV infections peaked over a decade ago.
Ikesolam is just lying here. And even if his assertion was true, so what? Would he just let 33 million people, many of them children, die of a treatable viral infection? Ikesolem must be a xian. Only xians could be so evil.
Well Cthulhu, I’m so appalled by the creeps crawling out from under their rocks tonight, that I balled up the HTML tags. One thing is obvious, Bachmann has the lunatic fringe anti-vaccine and anti-sex voters lined up. I’m sure there are at least a few thousand out of a population of 310 million. Once again.
Computer models and clinical data indicate that widespread use of ARVs would drive HIV to very low levels, even if nothing else is done.
This is the difference between normal people and Ikelosem, who is some sort of religious kook.
Normal people see a problem and solve it. Even if it takes a lot of money, scientists, and time.
Ikelosem just makes up lies and worries that somewhere, people might be having sex and enjoying it. Well too bad Ikesolem, billions of people will have sex and you can’t stop a single one of them except yourself. Which is OK, I’m sure your personality and warped mind are an incredibly effective contraceptive.
[meta]
Raven,
Nitpicking here, but do you have any compelling reason to ascribe the male gender to Ikelosem?
(This. Is. Pharyngula!)
Sooo, Perry changed his tune on Science rather quickly it seems.
Going from Anti Evolution and “we teach creationism in our schools in texas” and other such bullshit, to actually defending science.
Flip Flop much? XD
Aren’t schoolchildren smart enough to figure out which claim is true, Rick?
After all, you’re willing to allow children to decide major theories in science. Might as well allow them to determine what’s best for their health, what dental procedures they want done, whatever.
Oh, that’s right, we have to keep them healthy and stupid. We need those minimum wage workers.
Don’t get me wrong, idiot, I’m glad you’re in favor of vaccination. It’s just so contrary to the bullshit about kids deciding what science is while being fed equal amounts of truth and lies.
Glen Davidson
How can Perry trust scientists on one matter and utterly dismiss them on another? It’s time these politicians got called up on this bs.
Yep, Gardasil only vaccinates against strains 6, 11, 16 and 18 of HPV. 16 and 18 alone are responsible for 70% of cervical cancers and most HPV-induced cancers of the anus, vulva, vagina and penis. 6 and 11 are responsible for nearly all HPV-induced genital warts. It’s also partially effective at preventing ten other high-risk HPV strains, all responsible for cervical cancer.
Gardasil protects against cancer and wart-causing strains of HPV – the only relevant strains.
The efficacy of Cervarix is comparable to that of Gardasil. Gardasil effectively protects against strains 6 and 11 as well though. It’s the better deal.
Well, I’m convinced. It’s too late for me to do anything about the vaccine because I already got it, but I can’t argue with the logic that someone that is less than 100% effective is useless or dangerous. So to make up for it, I’ll stop washing my hands. After all, it only kills a lot of the germs, not all of them.
I think that what this incident demonstrates, in clear and brilliant detail, is that Rick Perry is an honest politician–in the sense that once he’s been bought, he STAYS bought.
He needs an example he can point to and say, “I am not anti science.” Earlier, he was quoted saying, “Science? Wuts dat!”
The latest data is that ARV treatment reduces HIV transmission by an incredible 96%.
wow, I had no idea it was that effective.
makes me want to link to Farnsworth saying “Good News, everyone!”, but it would be a bit dated.
Perry is an honest politician–in the sense that once he’s been bought, he STAYS bought.
integrity defined.
in Perry’s case, evidently he’s quite a cheap date though.
IIRC, that campaign contribution was less than 10K?
you people arent the brightest bulbs in the basket. All it takes to dupe you is mass(moron)media and a professor making an absurd bet,KNOWING FULL WELL that most people like yourselves are just plain ignorant,and would never dream of going to the CDC website where they openly admit 22,000 adverse reactions to this vaccine,and that only %2 have been reported….these include many deaths.
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