The Duggars are that creepy family paraded about on The Learning Channel — the ones with the swarm of kids. It’s a horrifying show, but in this episode, the nightmare is compounded by the fact that they visit the Creation “Museum” and even get a personal guided tour from freakishly dead-eyed Ken Ham. Only watch it if you like to torment yourself.
One other reason to watch it: they show enough of the “Museum” that you really don’t need to go there.
Do pity these poor kids, too.
I’m taking ally and John there next month. Skatje and Kyle should come too, but they’re chickenshit.
The Duggars have always creeped me out. I keep hoping that poor woman’s uterus will fall out from overwork so she can stop popping out whelps for Jesus.
If there is any justice at all, half of their kids will grow up to be atheists and two or three will be gay. Actually, the odds are in favor of the last one.
I made it about three minutes. Goodness.
Fucking child abuse, ugh.
Yet another reason why “The Learning Channel” should be sued for false advertising.
god-dammit – I want to sneak in there and expose eve’s breasts! Assuming she’s anatomically correct of course…
Thanks for saving me an incredulous trip down there. No comment on the family size portrayed.
Everything about this is so, so wrong. This is actually a good thing, though- it’s for the best if the creation museum is popularly associated with creepy people like that.
It would be frightening if it wasn’t so sad. Does this qualify as child abuse?
Animatronic Ken Ham!
Poor people….it’s enough for them to believe somebody’s mythos because it’s been handed down to their family for years, but actually believing that there is more scientific evidence for creationism than evolution?
It’s frustrating watching the one kid go, “Well, we don’t go to museums that mention only evolution. We go to fun museums.” Kid, there are a lot of wonderful science museums that are REAL science museums and lots of fun. (Was at the PacSci science museum just a few weeks back with my mom and there were a number of exhibits mentioning evolution there. Oh, and my mom is Mormon, although I think she and my dad think evolution is one of God’s sciencey tools to create the world.)
Watching those poor kids infuriates me, although I guess there’s hope for them, since I too used to think up tortured ways to make my religious fairy tales work out. (I even wrote a short science fiction story about the missing link being genetically modified by men from outer space who left a remnant colony here on earth. Of course, the men from outer space believed in God and probably came from Kolob. Or so my little mind figured.)
That was the creepiest thing I’ve ever seen, and I’ve watched Jesus Camp more than once. Thank god they showed vox pops with intelligent people dismissing creationism. For a few minutes I thought it was a straight up commercial for the Creation “Museum.”
Fossils? Or Flintstones? Who is right?
I met the Duggars when I was younger (and back before they were ‘celebrities’ and were just ‘those weirdos with a bunch of kids’). Albeit, I think they’re stark-raving mad, but they seemed perfectly nice and their kids looked well-adjusted enough. So I guess I have a hard time seeing them as ‘child abusers’ or people that we should pity (should we pity anyone? It’s such a patronizing thing to do).
But as far as taking their children to the creation museum, yeah, okay, that might be child abuse.
I do feel sorry for the kids. their parents have effectively set them up to fail, since the range of jobs you can have and live off that don’t require a college education is shrinking, and considering the educational handicap, they’ll have a much harder time getting a college education :-(
A vagina is not a clown car.
Akira – TLC’s not an acronym for The Learning Channel anymore…it’s just been “TLC” for quite awhile.
I actually love their show (now called 19 kids and counting). It’s interesting to see how they live, and they all seem happy and well off, and the kids are really entertaining. But watching this made me really sad, specifically the part where they were looking at the part about how evolution causes racism and genocide. It’s sad that they think science is such a sinister business and I think that limits their ability to appreciate the world.
That museum is awful. I thought that when I was following the whole Creozerg thing, but seeing these believing kids go through the museum and take the exhibits seriously made me cry.
These people are infuriating.
1) WTF? Carnivorous dinosaurs were vegetarians before Adam and Eve learned about good and evil? Where is exactly is that written in ANY version of the old testament?
2) I guess the “Noah’s Ark” display wouldn’t be as fun if Ken Ham actually studied the old testament with any kind of rigour or scholarly approach. The “ark” wasn’t a ship. It was BOX. Stupid xtians; can’t even get the details straight on their fairy tales, let alone reality.
3) The Duggars and quiverfullers in general aren’t into higher education: boys are supposed to go into business, and girls are supposed to get married and start breeding and homeschool their brood.
I know I said the other day that there are some aspects of this song I have misgivings about – and I still do –
but after watching those two videos I had to listen to The Idiots Are Taking Over three times.
Ummm … There’s something wrong with this picture. Even wrongier (as a Palin might say) than creepy Ken Ham.
A few months ago Mama Duggar’s cyclotron of a womb shot out baby # 19. It was seriously premature, and though the gossip mags kept oohing and aahing over this “miracle baby,” I saw no pictures of it. All the shots I saw were file photos of Mama Duggar with previous infants.
Last I heard (and I don’t check regularly), said baby was “fighting for its life.” And now the whole clan is suddenly off on a happy jaunt to Creatardville? Something’s missing here.
That’s ok. We’ll hear about the birth of baby #19 about 10 months from now. It will be ok.
@Jadehawk #15,
Nahhh, the boys can just go to Thomas Paine or Liberty or one of the other evangelical colleges where they’ll be accepted with open arms. And the girls don’t need any of that book-learnin’. As Judy L. said in #19, they will just get married off to start pumpin’ out more Christians.
well, I almost made it 2 minutes
Yeah, and how much education does it take to lie there then nine months later yell, grunt, and push.
Wow, I think I just made myself throw up in my own mouth.
I had to do some work for them a little while back. For fear that they may read this, I will reveal no details of the conversation, but, suffice to say that, while very polite and cordial… he’s rather controlling of every aspect of the kid’s lives.
Ick ick ick!
Jesus H. Christ PZ. I know you warned me, but Jesus H. Christ!
Was there any purpose to the visisit to this “Museum”?
This was awesome – thank you. Although I am in Indianapolis I have never had the time to go to the museum. I am still very interested in going though. I have not checked out if this is legal yet. But if it is I would love a picture of my daughter in the lobby spitting on the bible – the wonderful memories. To say the least the museum is breathe taking. It looks like very few details were spared. Well, except for a desire to paint a true picture. I can understand from ‘their’ point of view why this is unimportant, such a small detail anyhow. It is amazing the lengths ‘these'(all) sick people go through to spread their message. I do not know what to do or how to fix it. I do know toleration of such bullshit and stupid ideas is not the direction to move.
==================
“If Jesus touched your heart. Show us on the doll where else he touched you.”
–Tony
Watched the whole lot. The fact that a family like this is a normal thing and not remarked upon in the US just inspires me to redouble my efforts. We cannot let this happen in Europe, where creationism is just another opinion and not the bullshit it really is.
I watched both videos…
Ouch. I only made it just past 3 minutes. I think it was “there really is a Creator!” that got me. Or was it the little boy who said “we learn things that will help us in out later life”.
I really hope he meant university, since that’s the kind of help he’s going to need.
” Last I heard (and I don’t check regularly), said baby was “fighting for its life.” And now the whole clan is suddenly off on a happy jaunt to Creatardville? Something’s missing here.”
This video was from years ago back when there was just 17.
Teaching this crap should be illegal.
@ llewelly #20
That song was running through my head the whole time. I think it was my brain’s attempt drown out Ken Ham. A pretty catchy self deffense mechanism!
Ken Ham clearly does not understand the english language.
He says about the Creation Museum and why it’s there. “…a creation museum to at least challenge people with another point of view concerning origins.”
1. a call or summons to engage in any contest, as of skill, strength, etc.
We have seen that when these loony bats of teeny tiny thinking power come up and debate with Hitchens or even our very own Myers that it is a runaway knocked-the-ball-out-of-the-park-home-run style rout of a victory in favor for those who know that fairy tales died just shortly after their last nipple-topped bottle. Surely these imbeciles are still at a stage mentally where their heads still need to be cradled while being nourished.
Hey Brandine, get the kids out ‘ere!!! Tiffany, Heather, Cody, Dylan, Dermott, Jordan, Taylor, Brittany,
Wesley, Rumer, Scout, Cassidy, Zoe, Chloe, Max, Hunter, Kendal, Katlin,
Noah, Sasha, Morgan, Kira, Ian, Lauren, Qubert, Phil
Was it me or did one of the older girls give a couple looks to the camera that basically said, “This is wacko I know, but now I have to go back to pretending to believe in creationism so my dad doesn’t send me away to breed.”
Maybe I just have high hopes for young inquisitive minds.
Judy L,
I’m not sure you’re serious, but if you are, you’re embarrassingly wrong on point 2. Noah’s Ark was (allegedly) a huge boat (the Bible even gives some details about its measurements. The Ark of the Covenant was a box, in which the old Israelites allegedly stored the stone tablets Moses brought down from the mountain.
Two different things which happen to use the same word in English. Blame it on linguistic poverty.
Rev BDC @ 16;
Quit it.
*snort*
PZ @ original post;
Quit it. I mean, you post some foul stuff sometimes but this is the first time I actually vomited because I clicked through one of your links.
@13
The interesting thing about child abuse is that successful child abuse, especially emotional abuse, which Papa Duggar very obviously practices often will create very externally “well-behaved” kids.
This is because someone who is broken will often be quiet, meek, afraid of showing individuality, and overly deferential to authority figures and adults because they understand that as crucial to avoid another round of torture by their parents.
In our culture, as external figures often spending minimal time with the kids, it is easy to see this as being “well-behaved” because they will be overly stiff, formal, respectful, and above all quiet.
And these children are exceedingly abused children, but given how hard it is to get child services involved for physical abuse, I wouldn’t expect much hope for rescue for the Duggar kids. I would bet on at least one running away, several ending up gay, and at least one firebrand atheist who’s tell-all book sometime in the 20s or 30s will read like some horror story.
One of the worst parts for me is that the Creation Museum has better technology and dinosaur audio-animatronics that most science museums. How can Science museums compete if we don’t put out a more compelling product? Hopefully most of the 8 year old’s that go to the travesty that is the CM will be inspired by the dinosaurs to learn more. And hopefully they’ll find books in their communities public libraries that will give them a better view of the history of life on Earth. But our science museums (and parents) MUST do a better job to inspire the young.
I feel sick for those kids.
You know what’s really sad? Once the eldest kid hit nineteen or twenty mom and dad found him a nice girl to marry and procreate with. All their dates were chaperoned. Holding hands was a privilege. Seriously, first time they kissed was at their wedding. Creeeeeeeeeepy. Anyways, parents got him a wife and gave him a job to support his already growing family. Who the hell is settled down at twenty-one? You’re not even an adult then.
Yet they keep all their adult daughters around to raise their infants and small children. At least they give their boys some opportunity. Those girls have a lot to overcome before they have a chance at being anything. That’s just heinous.
You know, none of those kids even have a GED. The parents don’t believe in school outside the home and Mom is never around to act as teacher anymore. It’s not as though she ever taught them anything outside of “Jesus loves you” and “The earth is 6’000 years old.” I guess the grown daughters teach the wee ones useless non-information now. (As if it’s their responsibility. They’re not the ones fucking sans contraception.)
I can’t believe television portrays these wing-nuts as wholesome and cute. They’re fucking creepy.
There’s even an episode where they hang out with Kirk Cameron. Ewwww.
#31:
Uh, they’re not normal and they are remarked on, a lot. They’re even on TV, as you’ve just seen.
JudyL @19: According to Genesis, god created plants to be food for both humans and animals. Since the GOE was perfect there was no death. You can’t eat meat unless an animal dies. But Adam and Eve fucked that up, bringing death into the garden.
As far as the Noah’s Ark being a box, it was a large rectangular cube-like vessel with no propulsion system. It would have looked like a big box floating in the water.
The only advantage of being home-schooled is that it severely limits your chances of getting a wedgie.
Cerberus# 41
“And these children are exceedingly abused children, but given how hard it is to get child services involved for physical abuse, I wouldn’t expect much hope for rescue for the Duggar kids. I would bet on at least one running away, several ending up gay, and at least one firebrand atheist who’s tell-all book sometime in the 20s or 30s will read like some horror story.”
Am I too touchy or is this worded as if being gay were a contagious disease or a punishment?
I felt a little conflicted about this. The 2nd video in particular has a lovely feel good atmosphere to it, and the mother is right that relationships are the most important thing in life.
That said: 17 children?? Seventeen??? It just strikes me as the most shockingly irresponsible act of self indulgence.
Am I too touchy or is this worded as if being gay were a contagious disease or a punishment?
Not at all, and I even think that is the original posters intent. The key here is that to the Duggars it will seem like a punishment. Obviously to the rest of us, it’s a non event; but the statistics are likely to catch up with them on this front.
Also what’s sick about the Duggars and why the idea of them having a show disturbs me is that the way the family is run is pretty much textbook emotional abuse strategies and brainwashing as is practiced in heavily dysfunctional families (no duh) and cults (no duh).
And it’s treated more like a harmless freak show, like look at the crazy freaks and their religious beliefs that make them have too many children and little to no focus seems to be being focused on the psychological abuse, control, and life limitations inherent in that type of life.
I’m not even saying don’t focus attention on this family, because it’s one of the more stark examples of the type of patriarchally abusive family dynamics that are practiced to a lesser degree through a good deal of religions, but the way the sensationalism rewards them and sells it as interesting and not so bad really misses a critical chance.
I guess it’s because a man can be this brazen before huge audiences and there’s not even a single person moving to try and help the kids and wife escape that.
Jan:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5120004.stm
There may be a correlation between the number of siblings and the sexual orientation of the younger children.
Nahhh, the boys can just go to Thomas Paine or Liberty or one of the other evangelical colleges where they’ll be accepted with open arms. And the girls don’t need any of that book-learnin’. As Judy L. said in #19, they will just get married off to start pumpin’ out more Christians.
well yeah. I’m well aware of what the kids are supposed to do; I was saying that their parents made pretty damn sure that all other options are almost completely out of the question. If any of these kids manages to break the brainwashing, they’ll have a very hard time making a life in secular society, considering how uneducated and possibly unsocialized they are. I know that’s sort of the point, but it’s just cruel to do that to a child.
Jan @46
Ah, yeah, I see the problem with phrasing I did there. The “little hope for rescue” isn’t actually thematically connected to the next sentence, the sentence listing the ways some might turn out is more in the other direction, I should have added a “However” there.
What I was trying to say was that the kids won’t be rescued by child protective services or other aid organizations.
Given that, though, the stifling environment is pretty much guaranteed to prompt at least one to try and run away or several to try, one to succeed and it’s pretty likely that at least one will have an awakening and their tell-all book will decimate the “happy family” image of the TV show (because the Duggar family is an emotionally abusive, controlled hell hole).
As far as gay children, I didn’t mean it as punishment, merely a fact of how many kids they have. They have 19 kids, 18 after the latest inevitably dies. Given that out homosexuality is either 5% or 10% of the population, at least one kid will be a “can’t even hide it” homosexual.
Given this is probably an undercount because of the grey areas of the Kinsey scale, the effect of homophobia on willingness to come out, and a host of other effects, I’d count on up to half of them being some flavor of non-heterosexual, with at least 2 or 3 who either come out or are forced out by discovery.
Given the abusive psychotic family they are raised in, it won’t be easy for them and I really hope those kids manage to escape into a loving community rather than stuck being shuttled by their controlling father to Exodus International type scam outfits or worse.
My bets are on what I suspect might develop of this family when the survivors grow into adulthood without dad. And it’s pretty much a guarantee that at least one kid will be Kinsey 6 full homosexual, because the law of statistics with a family that size pretty much demands it.
In general though, I shudder for them. My partner’s family was raised in a milder version of the Duggar household. Her grandfather controlled the lives of his children who were way too numerous because he didn’t believe in condoms. They are still very emotionally stunted and even recreate the dynamics of their abused childhood among themselves. It’s the kind of bad juju that takes generations to undo.
On the plus side, the Duggar notion of outbreeding the godless brown horde, doesn’t work very well. Of the numerous children my grandfather had only two of them bred and they both only had one child. Growing up abused in a house overflowing with kids tends to make the same kids really averse to having lots of children themselves, though there are occasional exceptions as evidenced by the Mormons.
@51
Feature, not bug…pretty much of all fundie society. For fundie nutjobs, most believe in the idea of the Rapture so the goal isn’t to raise full successful adults, it’s to run out the clock with your family still all “holy” so you all get the magic carpet ride to Heaven together. The rest still believe making sure everyone gets to Heaven together is more important than whether they die screaming in this world.
It’s basically authoritarian parenting. The goal is to retain control over them, especially to hide them from the real world ideally for ever in the subculture so they never find out anything true and thus still believe in everything the parent’s taught them. This is “preventing corruption”.
They like that it’s hard to make it on your own in the modern economy, removing educational abilities that would make their children competitive for higher level jobs, and the like. All these things keep kids close to home or even in the home for those dangerous “college years” or early 20s where they would be tempted to explore the world and themselves on their own, figure out what they really believe, who they really love, what they really want to live like.
This way they can steer them to meeting and thus only having a chance of falling in love with other church people of the “right sex”, having sole employment opportunities be mostly volunteer positions in the subculture subsidized by the parents keeping them at home or otherwise using kids who try and escape into apartments or real lives as lost and warning examples to the other children.
The goal is to make them give up hope for having their own lives before they even begin.
In this fact, Richard Dawkins is wholly accurate when he describes religion itself as child abuse.
Thanks for clarification. Of course it´s not a question of having to speak with “guarded terms”, but of course sometimes, even inadvertently, we are liable to introduce prejudice or unintended second levels of meaning or implication in our discourse.
How do they afford it though? I can barely provide a comfortable lifestyle for my wife, one child and myself. Feeding 19 people? That alone must cost $5,000 a month!
by having a TV show and a lot of sponsorships because of it.
“This is 70,000 square feet of wasted space”
Fix’d.
I suspect that’s the difference between growing up in an isolated household that encourages such reproduction and growing up in a large, well-organized, government-controlling community that does so.
coughlanbrianm @55: I think they can afford it because TLC pays them a nice amount of dough for their freak show. How did they manage before getting their TV contract, however, is beyond me. Maybe good ol’ Jim Bob was rich in the first place.
jan @54
Oh inevitably, but that was just poor phrasing. I’m a trans asexual dating a kinsey 5 same sex partner and am pretty involved in the LGBT community. I’m definitely well aware at the biological basis of and wholly human nature of sexuality.
It wasn’t “guarded phrasing” or unconscious bias (in this instance), just the run-of-the-mill grammatical screw-up.
Sorry, PS. I could only make it through 3 minutes worth. I just ate breakfast and …well, I hope someone can understand how I’m feeling right now. Barf bag anyone?
That should have read, “Sorry PZ.” Z … S – They are very close together. See what it did to me! Help! Help!
Last autumn I came across my first genuine US Creationist!! At least I think he was he moved so fast it was difficult to tell.
My spouse and I had gone on a trip to York, principally to see the newly displayed Viking Hoard (a collection of silver and gold dating from the 8thC) but whilst we were at the Yorkshire Museum we took the opportunity to view all the exhibits.
Towards the end we were looking at a small but excellent display of fossils, including a four metre Ichthyosaur, when one of the many US visitors entered behind us. He was in the room for about 10 seconds! 8 seconds to read the small notice which described the time-line and 2 seconds to virtually run out of the room. An interesting experience.
BTW I managed 3 minutes of the first video and almost 1 minute of the second.
“how can they afford it”
They’re actually really good with money. All of their clothing and furniture is second-hand, they built their house themselves over the course of I think 3 or 4 years, and they don’t have any debt. They save up before they buy anything.
They do get money from the show, but they also own a bunch of commercial properties that they rent out, and they also have a used car lot that the oldest son took over when he got married, and I think they have other businesses too.
I just do not want to live in a world with all this senseless breeding and ignorance. I mean it, I’ve had it. To where can I move? I’m embarrassed that I share a planet with these people. With my next paycheck I’m donating to all my favorite science museums for their kids’ programs. You warned me, you said it was torture to watch. Ugh.
That’s ok. We’ll hear about the birth of baby #19 about 10 months from now. It will be ok.
Already here
http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/11/michelle-duggar-baby-c-section-jim-bob-19-discivery-channel/
I’m glad I have flashblock on my firefox and google chrome browsers. I can never stand watching and seeing crackhouses getting seen and praised by gullible people like the Duggars who are totally ignorant of their true nature of the crackhouse.
@MAJeff, OM #66: From the context, I got the impression llewelly meant we’d be hearing about a replacement baby #19.
I was at a friend’s house the other day and his wife was watching the show. My friends are christian, and even they thought the Durgars were freaks. Of course my friends are not Real True Christians ™ since they play Magic the gathering and Dungeons and Dragons…
I made it to 1.30, I do not have the stomach to watch any more of it. Hearing Hammy say ‘Evolution is taught as fact’ made me almost throw my headphones across the room – which would be bad because I’m in an office.
Lying for Jesus is allowed!
In addition to the money they’re paid by TLC, I believe that Jim Bob had his house declared a “church” so he wouldn’t have to pay any property tax.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18449_the-tlc-experiment-just-how-dumb-learning-channel.html
TLC’s quite a misnomer. I haven’t watched it since high school…mostly because of Junkyard Wars.
Random note: Do they use a school bus to commute? A short bus should be perfect, size and connotation-wise.
smartbrainus – again, they haven’t been the learning channel since 1998…it’s just “TLC” and the letters no longer stand for anything
TLC = Truly Loathsome Crap
I’m aware of that Linzee…it’s similar to MTV (which dropped music entirely). But still, it’s an acronym and there’s bound to be confusion as a result. I know trademarks are difficult to change (risking obscurity), but it’s a slap in the face for those who actually watched the network a while back. Renaming the network “VH1 minus C-list celebrities” would be too difficult for them.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NetworkDecay
I’m glad the clips of people laughing at creationist claims didn’t turn this into a giant Creation Museum advert.
But urgh, the gasps of elation when she proclaimed ‘it’s all designed!’. Parasites which can only survive by inhabiting a human eye? Great plan that.
@16 RBDC You’ve never seen me make love.
Back in Ye Olde Days, when contraception was unheard off, healthy women had between 0 and 10 babies. Typically, one popped out every 2 years, then at the end of her reproductive cycle, 3 years, then 4. I have a family tree with 12,000 people in it, and the record is 13 children. I assume that this was held back by breast-feeding the babies.
Mrs Duggar has defeated this natural cycle, presumably by dumping latest sprog on the older girls, and going off to hubbie’s bed for more baby stuffing. Ye gods, she’s been pregnant 1/3rd of her life. That’s got to affect her soon, and probably the future babies too. No. 19 weighed less than 2lbs at birth. Have her doctors even advised her to stop?
The swim suits. Ugh.
multiple times, from what i understand. and? quiverfullers believe Ob/Gyn’s are evil anti-baby people who don’t trust in God enough.
See post #16
It’s hard to escape the conclusion that, on some deep dark level, Quiverfull families know how lousy their ideas are. They know that the chances of persuading anyone of their beliefs in fair and open debate are laughably small. That’s why they’re trying to swell their numbers by brainwashing people who are too young to know any better and whose brains are wired to believe what adults tell them
Or, as Ingrid said last night: They can’t recruit — so they have to reproduce.
The Quiverfulls, in fact, are losing members. Cheers for those leaving that sick movement:
http://nolongerquivering.com/about/
1) Collins Spanish Dictionary
2) Beginners guide to XML
3) Performance Flying – Dennis Pagen
4) The Science of Secrecy – Simon Singh
5) Fermat’s Last Theorem – Simon Singh
6) The Scottish country Miller – Enid Gauldie
7) Men, Women and 10,000 Kites – Gabriel Voisin
8) Longitude – Dava Sobel
9) Superstrings and the Search for the Theory of Everything – F David Peat.
10) A Short History of Nearly Everything. – Bill Bryson.
…at least 6 of them unread – forgot I had them. My ‘to read’ pile is at least 2 feet thick without these. Must. stop. spending. time. on. the. internet. and. read. more.
Oops! Ignore last post – wrong thread.
This show should be on the UNlearning channel!! I thought I had the nerve to sit through the entire video….but I don’t. I had to stop after 2:21 into it. What Ill-minded and ignorant folks. It’s the SAME evangelical, intelligent design mumbo-jumbo reiterated over and over!!! And we see it every day. Science education is sooooo bad in America. And the media sometimes does more harm than good. I love watching the History Channel, Science Channel and Nat Geo- and thats probably where most in the general public get any tidbits of knowledge about world learning and education. And they asume that everything they are watching is FACT and what is accepted by all scientists, reasearchers, and teachers. But I get so frustrated when I see that a good many of the shows are on psuedo spiritual bullshit like ghosts and hauntings being “evident”; UFO sightings and alien abductions being “legit”; conspiracy theories that carry no weight, but “sound” convincing and are entertaining; the Bible as historically “accurate”; and Nostradomus/end-times prophecies as “plausible” or “credible”! I realize they tape shows like this and play them to boost ratings- but it is such a discredit to the ACTUAL process of learning and critical/skeptical thinking. I, personally, would think it would be more enjoyable to watch shows where these myths, tales and superstitions were debunked and put back in the bin of childish, primative, and useless things that know longer should have value in our discourse. I agree, it is fun to talk about the little unknowns and uncertainties in the natural world…but let’s work w/ what we do know!!! And saying that ghosts, goblins and aliens dun-did-it doesn’t get us ANYWHERE but backwards!!
o no my mom watches that crap
Egads, that is dreadful. I couldn’t watch more than 3 minutes of that vacuous crap. I feel sorry for the kids, though. No one deserves to be subjected to that much willful ignorance.
I guess every sperm really is sacred.
Hmm. Another nail in the coffin for his creation museum, since I would love to have him explain how flood geology is a substitute for, or explains, mineral evolution. Not the same as regular evolution, its linked. Since “basic” minerals can form, but not more complex ones, without *life* causing them, starting with early plants. Article on it is in Scientific American March 2010, pp. 58-65, and shows how each “class” of minerals only appear in specific time frames, and due to specific conditions, many of them a result of the life forms that exist *during that time*. It also means, if you want to look for life some place, you look for the minerals it produces. If they are there, life was. If all you get is simple carbon types, like diamonds, silicates, some metallic ones, and other ur-minerals (about 250 of them), there probably wasn’t any there. If you find ones that are not in that set, but differ significantly from what earth has, one can presume its due to some radically different organic chemistry (though, that later one is my extrapolation of what this might mean, not theirs).
Their estimate, and evidence, in terms of samples from our own geologic history, is:
Meteors – 250 or so.
Planets like Mercury – 350 or so.
Mars, assuming water, but no life – 500 or so.
Earth, before simple life, and being wetter – >500
Earth, high pressure, subduction, etc. – 1,500
Earth, life + oxygen – 2,500
Earth, now – 4,400
In short, how ever many minerals you find = likelihood that life existed there at some point.
Never heard about the Duggars until now. I did watch some of their show on TV after reading this. I was shocked what a celebration of mindless conformity and simpleminded thinking. I’m at a loss to explain why they are on the air. (except of course for the ratings). Talk about clueless. Isn’t it interesting that the so-called mainstream “Liberal” “Secular” media celebrates this family.