We have a couple of comments from people who phoned the Cincinnati Zoo that suggest that the shameful pairing of the zoo with the Creation Museum is going to be revoked. I suspect that this was a case of an overzealous person in the marketing department grabbing an opportunity that sounded like good financial sense, without considering its implications to the educational and research mission of the zoo, and that the higher-ups with a bigger picture of their goals are a bit horrified, and are rapidly correcting the problem.
It has been verified: zap, the combo tickets on the zoo’s ticketing site have been eradicated. The Creation Museum is still promoting them, though…let’s hope they shamefacedly erase that page soon.
Any of you who wrote to the zoo — it might be nice if you send a follow-up commending them for their swift action.
Hah! The Creation Museum link has now gone dead. Our triumph is complete.
The story made the Cincinnati Enquirer:
A promotional deal between the Cincinnati Zoo and the Creation Museum was scuttled Monday after the zoo received dozens of angry calls and emails about the partnership.
The promotion was billed as “Two Great Attractions, One Great Deal” and offered a package deal on tickets for the zoo’s annual Festival of Lights and a museum event called Bethlehem’s Blessings.
The deal appeared on web sites for both institutions Friday, but it was pulled by the zoo Monday morning after complaints about the partnership started pouring in.
Most of the protests echoed the same theme: the Creation Museum promotes a religious point of view that conflicts with the zoo’s scientific mission. The museum promotes a strict interpretation of the biblical version of how life began, and it suggests that dinosaurs and man once lived side by side.
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men (people) to do nothing – so its great that good people are doing something. I think the creations are a minority – and all we have to do to stop them is to stand up to them. As you, PZ, do so well.
Dang – “creationists”
Way to go PZ. Keep them on their heels.
Great success!
Brilliant! This is the kind of Pharyngulation we need more of!
Hooray! This is good news. Good work people!
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people not to know what their marketing department are up to.
Creationist cries of “Darwinists” being scared / censorship / godless satanists in 3…2…1…
Good job folks….. if they actually do take it down.
still up as of 12:21 PM EST.
@ David #1
Actually if this link is an indication of the overall national trend the YECers have the lead, though not a majority.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/108226/Republicans-Democrats-Differ-Creationism.aspx
All right! Good move on the zoo’s part! :)
Another small, but temporary, victory for reason. Perhaps the creation museum can make a liaison with Roswell, New Mexico and have interactive displays and then cover it all up and then deny the whole crap.
And it’s down. 12:28 PM EST
Although the ticket combo is off the Zoo’s website, it’s still on the Creation Museum’s site: http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/museum/2008/11/30/creation-museumcincinnati-zoo-combo-tickets-now-available/
I hope somebody from the Zoo is working on getting that removed.
Excellent work, team. This is the kind of thing we need more of. The enjoyment of poll crashing, plus the satisfaction of making a difference, of actually doing something that matters.
Yay! While this never should have happened in the first place it’s nice to know them made the right decision, eventually.
This is the most interesting thing to happen in Cincinnati since……umm…..since…..This is the most interesting to happen in Cincinnati!
The “general admission” and “special events” pages are now empty, save for the headers. I guess they got eviscerated as quickly as the web guy could do it.
This may be an occasion for cautious optimism.
Great news, I sent an email this morning, great to see quick action.
I suspect that this was a case of an overzealous person in the marketing department
I suspect that this was a case of a creationist idiot in the marketing department, and that person should be fired.
On behalf of all Cincinnatians, intellectually honest or otherwise, I thank the rational pharynguloid hordes for their help on this.
This is a community (pharyngula) I will always be proud to be a part of.
Thank you
Gary
It’s still on the zoo’s website.
https://tickets.cincinnatizoo.org/signups/affiliates.asp
Perhaps they’re contractually obligated to honor the combo, though too embarrassed now to promote it?
I sent them a letter asking them to remove that bit.
“Prepare To Believe” on the creation museum information sheet. As the saying goes, if you can believe in a god, you can believe in anything.
This blog needs “tally marks” like the symbols denoting kills on fighter planes.
Han and Warda Proteomics paper, February 2008.
Cincinnati Zoo-Creation Museum combo tickets, December 2008.
Nicely done!
Wow, did that work? I feel so empowered.
I don’t think that anyone should necessarily be fired over this. Marketing should be educated, not punished.
[deep breathing voice] “The capability to mislead entire marketing departments is insignificant next to the power of Pharingula” :D
So, any betting pool yet on when Ken “fucktard” Ham will decry this terrible case of Darwinist Oppression in his blog?
Also… who’s taking bets on whether this story will be included in “Expelled 2 – Dumb and Dumberer”?
One word (not counting those last two, or in fact these twelve in parentheses): Bravo!
I don’t much mind mistakes (unrepeated, for the most part, of course) if they’re quickly rectified. That’s sort of the difference between science and religion, after all, the latter clinging to stuff that is at best useless.
Don’t do it again, Cincinnati Zoo, and thanks for coming to your senses.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
I can just see Ken Ham going “MYERS!” the same way Jerry Seinfeld went “NEWMAN!”
Hurrah! Good job team pharyngula!
Not to sound naive, but is it at all possible that the folks at the Cincinnati Zoo were actually trying to lure more creationists to a *real* scientific establishment with the offer of joint tickets? Couldn’t they have been making a temporary alliance with the enemy in order to present our side? I’m not trying to defend the decision – we can’t afford to appear sympathetic to woo – I’m just wondering if there might have been a less sinister motive…
Hurray for Common Sense!
I doubt this was an innocent mistake. Only a creationist retard would try to make a deal with a magical-creation museum. Everyone responsible should be thrown out and replaced with people who are at least intelligent enough to not believe in magic. It makes no sense to employ insane people for any job, especially not a zoo that’s suppose to be pro-science.
My prediction? The creation museum will continue to tout this for the duration of the contract. They will use this ‘tie-in with the zoo’ in their literature to justify themselves. Who knows what the zoo agreed to in that contract?
Maybe I’m just being paranoid, but from past experience, I wouldn’t put anything past these guys!
Good job to all.
I still would like some sort of explanation from the zoo. Living in Cincinnati, I see constant marketing from the Creationism ‘Museum’. I have had co-workers planning on bringing their kids there until I explained what the place is. I think people (who probably should know better) have seen the bait, the shiny commercials of kids running around playing, and miss the big anti-science hook. The general public just isn’t as aware of the issue as Pharyngula readers. And I am willing to assume some zoo employee (again, who should have researched before doing this) set this up in ignorance of the Creation ‘Museum’s’ actual purpose.
“Not to sound naive, but is it at all possible that the folks at the Cincinnati Zoo were actually trying to lure more creationists to a *real* scientific establishment with the offer of joint tickets?”
In my opinion the harm still outweighs the good.Like someone said early in the other thread,this museum was actually struggling financially and dwindling in attendance.If the faithful can’t keep it going on their own,certainly the last place it should hope to find salvation is from the Cincinnati zoo.
Also,the smug victory it gave the creationists to be partnered with an actual scientific establishment is cause alone for me personally to be against any kind of “maybe we will bring some over to our side when they go to the zoo” ideology.
It’s a ‘podmas miracle!
I say we ask PeeZed to make this daily feature. An Advent calendar of prodding YECs and their ilk.
Maybe, but it’s still pretty stupid to give any credibility to tie any scientific organization to a group that believes in a 6,000 year old Earth, that the creation myth of Genesis – unlike the hundreds of other creation myths – is fundamentally true, and that allows you to ride a dinosaur as your ancestors once did.
Terrible partnership – why give them any validity at all? Aren’t there better ways to market your zoo?
Good work everyone, that’s awesome!
ZOO PULLS CREATION MUSEUM PROMOTION
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081201/NEWS01/312010040
Glad to hear the Enquirer covered the story.
“The Creation Museum link has now gone dead. Our triumph is complete.”
In my head I read this in Darth Vader’s voice.
Curses. Did anybody save the contents or a screenshot of the AIG blog entry?
It’s good to see that this egregious error has been corrected.
And PZ is right. If you emailed the zoo to complain, you should email them again to offer a little praise.
This is wonderful news! Merry Kitzmas Everyone!
From the Enquirer article:
“No package deals had been sold, so no refunds will be necessary.”
Awwwwwwwww.
I just sent them a thank you note. I encourage everyone to do the same and make them feel good about the swift elimination of the ticket deal with the phony museum.
“”When we partner with the Reds, we don’t get these kinds of emails,” Yelton said. “It’s pretty clear this is more of a distraction.””
Maybe it’s because baseball teams generally don’t have it as their mission to destroy everything you work to build up?
I would have preferred to hear from an actual zoo person who actually knows a thing or two about animals rather than some clueless marketing bozo, and I would certainly hope that they actually understood the message we were sending, but hey, a win is a win.
Okay, so now that they’re no longer in the business of actively promoting the Creation Museum… when can we expect them to get off the sidelines and work FOR the role of good science education?
It really is “We’re zoos. We teach CONSERVATION, not biology! Plus we’ve got to keep the public coming through our wickets, we mustn’t frighten them by using the E-word!”
The AZA NEEDS TO ADDRESS THIS EPISODE.
But they IGNORE the issue. See the thread discussion below:
http://scienceblogs.com/zooillogix/2008/09/association_of_zoos_and_aquari.php#c1235147
This story is in heavy need of persistent follow-up: Why do our nation’s zoos almost totally ignore evolution? We should be ashamed of the pitiful job our zoos do in this department. It’s not even a discussed topic at their convention.
From the Cincinnati Enquirer article
They should have added:
“The Creation Museum features a talking snake. The snakes at the Cincinnati Zoo don’t talk.”
@47
I’ve only visited the D.C. Zoo, but it didn’t ignore evolution. It did have a sign prior to its human evolution section (located in the primate house, or something with a similar name) that warned visitors they may be offended by what they were about to see. It did, however, mention evolution extensively after that point.
But our zoos do need to stop with the apologies.
Probably for the same reason many American biology teachers ignore evolution. They want to avoid harassment and threats from mentally retarded Christian thugs. It’s too bad. A zoo would be a perfect place to learn about evolutionary relationships.
Not to unbelievers such as yourself, they don’t.
Sheesh, you need a course in magic and how unbelief poisons the perfect world of miracles that would exist without atheists and their absurd ideas about “evidence,” “repeatability,” and “not privileging observers.”
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Only in Idiot America would anyone feel it was necessary warn people they might learn something about science. I bet they put up that sign to avoid complaints from Christian assholes. My contempt for Christians grows every day.
I still want to know more about how this got all the way through to being an active package deal. One creationist mole or overzealous marketer could have had the idea, fine, but whole teams of people had to approve this when counting the steps. People who are familiar with the fact that zoos are about science.
This is the best news I’ve heard all day. Huzzah… Rationality FTW!!!
Also, PZ, “The Noodly One” has given you this amazing power. Please, please, (for the love of pasta), only use this power for good.
-RPC
“But our zoos do need to stop with the apologies.”
Your friends don’t need it, and your enemies won’t believe it.
wooo! Glad to hear we got such a prompt response.
I’m a bit dissapointed by the way Chad Yelton seems to have viewed this issue. That he got the general “hey we’re upset about this” theme of our communication without actually reading what we said -_-;
Nevertheless, it’s a win. Might not be a flawless victory, but a win is a win.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention PZ =)
I went to both and couldn’t find the link; so, it must have been after VICTORY was acheived. Thanks to all the locals in Cinncy for their sensibility and hard work to eradicate this stupidity.
I did find out that I could have visited the Creation Museum for FREE on November 11th as I am a veteran and they offered free admission to veterans on this day. I may have to remember this and go next year as I think such monumental stupidity might be entertaining but I don’t want to actually encourage stupidty by paying for it. (The same reason I won’t buy the “Expelled” movie.)
Yes we can!
:-D
An email I sent this morning after reading your first post, with the zoo’s response below:
Dear Cincinnati Zoo,
I was planning on taking my wife and daughter to the zoo during our annual Christmas visit this year. Due to your marketing partnership with the Creation Museum, however, we are cancelling our plans to do so. I take my daughter to zoos not only for entertainment but also for education. Since you are opposed to the latter, apparently, we won’t be visiting your zoo.
Sincerely,
__________________________________________________________
Thank you for contacting the Cincinnati Zoo and Botanical Garden. The combo package with the Creation Museum has been cancelled.
Thanks, Kathy
Unless you know Parseltongue.
I’m tired of all the ragging on Cincinnati, you can just stuff all that smugness someplace where the sun don’t shine.
Cincinnati is a city with good and bad just like every other city in the country it’s not a cardboard cutout cartoon. It may be a little more conservative and way more sports obcessed, than most places, but it full of decent honest hard working people most of whom have brains that work quite well. Cincinnati has one of the highest levels of volunteer hours per capita in the country, it has fantastic well supported art’s community. I know from spending time in both California and NYC that people in Cincy are about 1000 times more likely to take people on face value than people who live on either coast. So, unless you’ve lived here,please just back off and refrain from commenting on how backward the city may or may not be.
You might find it hard to believe, but we can think for ourselves here, and most of us think the Creation Museum is just as big a joke as you percect,faultless, people on the coasts do.
Also, I don’t know what Zoos you people go to but the Cincy Zoo has always talked about evolution in it’s education programs. And you know what, only twice in 34 years of doing public outreach programs have I ever had a guest take me to task for that.
Mary
If I’m not mistaken, most of the Cincinnati specific complaints are coming from natives.
“So, unless you’ve lived here,please just back off and refrain from commenting on how backward the city may or may not be.”
You’d be surprised how many of us are on here. At least I was.
Mary Fitzpatrick wrote: I know from spending time in both California and NYC that people in Cincy are about 1000 times more likely to take people on face value than people who live on either coast.
Not given to over-generalization, are you?
Jeez, Mary Fitzpatrick,take it easy! Nobody–I think not one single commenter–has ragged on the town of Cincinnati, nor has anyone disparaged its fine, upstanding populace.
Just the special-marketing dopes at the zoo. People here would be making the same fun in the event that it was the San Diego or Bronx Zoo.
‘K?
From the Cincinnati Enquirer comments:
–“Zoo officials said the promotion was intended to be no different than any other reduced-cost package deal the zoo offers with other institutions in the area, such as the Cincinnati Reds.”–
The combo ticket with the Creation Museum was just a one-month holiday-season promotion. What was the big deal?
Apparently this whole protest against this combo ticket was orchestrated by just one blogger, “Sleazy” PZ Myers.
The hypocritical Darwinists pretend to be concerned about science, but they have hurt the Cincinnati Zoo’s ability to get more visitors, revenue, and publicity for the purpose of helping the zoo display, study, and preserve wildlife.
If you Darwinist extremists think that you have heard the last about this, you have another thing coming.
Darwinist extremists? Seriously?
Ugh
the comments at that article are as bad as you’d expect.
What? Nobody’s said it yet? Fine, I’ll say it:
C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
Mary, no one was making fun of your fair city. In fact, it seems that the general consensus is that it one creationist who works in marketing who brought this about. Unless, you think that throwing scorn on one person is the same as throwing scorn on one city, you are way off base.
Then shame of the Cincy natives for ragging on their city here instead of doing something constructive or pro-active to change the things they don’t like about the city. If they are doing something constructive, let’s hear about it. If you think the city is backward what concrete thing have you done to change thingst? Posting on blogs and writing letters to the editor don’t count that’s just preaching to the converted and patting yourself on the back for it. How have you gotten your hands dirty making the city a better place?
As to the rest, maybe I’m generalising, but I’m sick and tired of being treated like I have straw in my hair because I’m from the mid-west.
Dear Ms. Fitzpatrick:
Nobody is bashing Cincinnati. What we are opposed to is the linking of a scientific institution (i.e. the Zoo) with the antics of deranged den of superstition (i.e. the CM). We are all aware, us elitist latte-sipping, Volvo-driving, diversity-embracing, reality-based liberals, that any city is a mosaic with a wide spectra of beliefs, personalities and attitudes. Your complaint is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Indeed! Why won’t Hogwarts start teaching Parseltongue?
“…This is the most interesting thing to happen in Cincinnati since……umm…..since…..This is the most interesting to happen in Cincinnati! …”
Sorry I guess I read that wrong.
Hey, didn’t Phil Plait give his BA talk there a few months ago? Doesn’t that count? Even a little?
“Then shame of the Cincy natives for ragging on their city here instead of doing something constructive or pro-active to change the things they don’t like about the city.”
Well, they just helped disassociate the City Zoo from the Flintstones Museum. Doesn’t that count as “something constructive or pro-active to change the things they don’t like about the city”?
I’m angry, angry! Because of you zealous jerks the Cincinnati Zoo has shuttered their own Cincinnati talking snakes!
These beautiful and docile snakes can vibrate their glottis similarly to the mammalian larynx and in so doing “talk” during courtship dances and male-to-male aggressive displays. A handful of these meek squamates have even been taught a rudimentary “language”, and the Cincinnati Zoo had been proud to house three such specimens since the late 1980s. Goaded by zoo attendants’ offers of “pinkies” (frozen fetal mice), these gentle exotherms could be coaxed to, at first, just hiss, but then, in their excitement, emit sounds remarkably like English words.
One such snake, “Lord Chesterfield”, shortly before his death in February of 1992, was known to have issued forth a stream of morphemes which was transcribed as, “Most men, even in this comparatively free country, through mere ignorance and mistake, are so occupied with the factitious cares and superfluously coarse labors of life that its finer fruits cannot be plucked by them”. He then walked several pinkies backward into his gullet by alternately distending either side of his flexible mandible.
And now their gone! Jerks!
The Answers in Stupidity website PZ linked to, which was working earlier today, now says Page Not Found. Sorry, the page your looking for cannot be found. Error 404
They probably won’t be talking about why the Cincinnati Zoo decided to have nothing to do with their idiocy.
I’m so angry I can’t even spell “they’re”!
Posted by: Mary Fitzpatrick | December 1, 2008
As to the rest, maybe I’m generalising, but I’m sick and tired of being treated like I have straw in my hair because I’m from the mid-west.
Do you realize how funny this is, you complaining like this at a blog that is based in Minnesota. And that the man who runs this blog is from rural Oregon. Seems that you need some perspective.
And in cased you missed it, the brief letter writing campaign did the job, it ended this potential exercise in stupidity. And after today, there will not be much more thought about this. Calm down.
You’d think they’d talk it up, go on about the evil atheist conspiracy that is trying to persecute them!
“What? Nobody’s said it yet? Fine, I’ll say it:
C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!”
LOL yoyu saw that Obama thing too huh?
Congrats to those that sent in comments to turn this around. I hadn’t gotten around to doing it myself yet, but at least I can pick up some round-again slack.
“Then shame of the Cincy natives for ragging on their city here instead of doing something constructive or pro-active to change the things they don’t like about the city. If they are doing something constructive, let’s hear about it. If you think the city is backward what concrete thing have you done to change thingst? Posting on blogs and writing letters to the editor don’t count that’s just preaching to the converted and patting yourself on the back for it. How have you gotten your hands dirty making the city a better place?”
Well Mary
I bought a house in the worst part of Over The Rhine, where I do quite a bit thank you.
I also opened both of my shops in the downtown area. My entire life, present and future, is devoted to improving this city and helping it’s people.
Your assumption that I am doing nothing only shows how arrogant and judgmental you are.
Would you like to hear what I did for this city TODAY?
Take your bullshit elsewhere.
It is no longer welcome here.
sweet! it’s a balm for the (nonexistent) soul to hear something worked out in our favor for once
This is a triumph
I’m making a not here
HUGE SUCCESS
It’s hard to overstate
my satisfaction…
:)
I just submitted this post to digg, bragging about your awesome ignorance-stomping powers. If there’s anyone else here who likes seeing PZ on the front page (even if it’s not a nifty science article) you can digg it here: http://digg.com/general_sciences/PZ_Myers_Strikes_Again_ends_zoo_pairing_with_creationists
gaab, good on you.
You put your money where your mouth is.
#65 Josh quoting the Cincinnati Enquirer comments:
I’m sorry, I can’t take seriously a threat from someone who watches The Flintstones as if it were a documentary.
#83 Alex,
Look at me still talking when there’s science to do….
Hey!! Everyone is bashing the “idiots in marketing.” I’m in marketing, and few of us are idiots. SOME are idiots, but please don’t put all of us into the same trash bin. In fact, we don’t always come up with the promotional schemes. Sometimes we are TOLD what to promote.
Mary
Thank you for saying that.
To be honest, if there was any money left, I’m not sure I wouldn’t bail at this point.
After nearly ten years here it gets difficult. Sometimes I wonder.
I don’t do as much as I used to. Never really did enough.
There was a day a couple years ago that started with me hosing blood off of my front steps from a shooting the night before and ended with me helping a couple neighborhood kids clean up a community garden, and it just tripped something in my brain.
How do you do that kind of thing and still find the strength to take care of yourself?
I’ve had to spend some time working on me lately.
Maybe my head and schedule will clear up soon.
Don’t worry casual readers. The neighborhood has improved over the last couple years, but the garden has gone to hell.
“And that the man who runs this blog is from rural Oregon.”
Suburban Washington*, actually.
* The state, that is. Seriously, could we get in a time machine and find the people who named that state after the nation’s capital city and give them a good sucker punch?
Posted by: BlueIndependent | December 1, 2008 4:08 PM
“What? Nobody’s said it yet? Fine, I’ll say it:
C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!”
LOL yoyu saw that Obama thing too huh?
—————————————
I never saw any Obama thing, but I sure used to play a lot of Killer Instinct.
I read this post this morning without time to think about it more than to say to myself, “Wicked cool if on-line rationalism can cause the Zoo to think clearly.”
I spent the rest of the day at work and out of touch. Then I come home and find this welcome news! Haaay! How ’bout that? Wicked cool. The Zoo listened to this larger zoo and understood (I presume) that what this godless cadre had to say was valid, applicable to the opinions of more than just science freaks and geeks, and bearing an important message, to wit: “If you don’t understand how life works, how can you eat?!!?
[/phony Pink Floyd imitation]
This is wonderful news, no doubt. But even greater is the demonstration of the usefulness of being able to give timely (within minutes) and persuasive (good sentence structure and punctuation) and effective (“stands to reason”) commentary and criticism of issues just like this one.
The association of the Zoo and the Museum is not the sort of thing that commands the attention of nations and holds people breathless. However it is exactly the kind of association that can serve to confuse people. The very idea of a celebrated institution such as the Cincinnati Zoo involved with the rookie peep show of the Museum (OK, my prejudice is obvious. I’m not embarrassed.) carries an authoritative message that says the Zoo “approves” of the Museum. Not a good omen.
So I was delighted to come home this evening and to be greeted by this heartening news. Two encouragements: 1) Reasoned voices in concert are effective. 2) Reasonable people will listen to reasoned voices at least some of the time.
I’m very pleased and encouraged. It is plain to see that the efforts of a relative few have made a large difference.
Cue wounded whimpering and hoarsely spoken curses from the sorely persecuted in 3, 2, 1 . . .
One small step for PZ, one giant step for science and reason!
I’m sure it was my letter this morning that tipped the scales. I’m just happy they came to their senses. The zoo, that is.
Thanks sent. Such a promo — oi moi!
Paul #93
Lots of us here on Pharyngula sent emails as soon as PZ put up the story. There’s no reason to think it was your letter that ‘tipped the scales’.
Somebody asked for a screenshot of the Creation museum link?
Enjoy. (btw, clock is at Central European Time, GMT-1)
Screenshot
remainder of the post
Dr. James Leach, a Cincinnati radiologist who e-mailed zoo officials about his concerns. “The Cincinnati Zoo is one of this city’s treasures. The Creation Museum is an international laughingstock.”
—that’s about it in a nutshell
I was reading the comments at the Cincinnati Enquirer site and came across this beaut!
“I take the (Bible) stories literally. There is alot between the lines that is certain but I don’t think we need to know or understand everything. I believe God uses our intellect to confuse us, we worry about silly things don’t we as a human race??”
I wonder what exact guidepost we should use to determine where “everything” lies on the understanding scale.
Can’t we just stop when we know, say, 70 %, or 75 % of everything? That should keep us going for the next few millenia, at least.
Benjamin Franklin said-
“Being ignorant is not so much a shame as being unwilling to learn.”
Ugh…Ken Ham is playing the victim.
It’s not your faith, Mr. Ham, it’s your dogmatic anti-science mission, which is completely at odds with that of the zoo.
Mazel Tov to them for keeping it kosher . . . no Ham, donchaknow ^_^
Yay for abolishing the ability for people to choose for themselves what they want! The sad part is not that the zoo partnered with an alternative venue, but that they folded after hearing from a few closed minded people who live out of state. Science is a set of laws man created to explain the universe not a moral compass. When you start to decide what is right for everyone you might as well start a third Reich and you know how well that ended. If you don’t like something don’t do it. We can’t all be as narrow minded as most of you on here are.
@ concern troll #101
No, the sad part is “that the zoo partnered with an alternative venue” since that venue presents only an alternative to reality.
#101
Godwin! *drinks*
If you support the idea of morality, then I hope that you agree that false testimony is morally wrong.
The Creation Museum is nothing more than a building full of false testimony.
And of course, the Creation Museum is also not science.
Randy
“The sad part is not that the zoo partnered with an alternative venue, but that they folded after hearing from a few closed minded people who live out of state.”
And several intelligent and rational Cincinnatians.
Do I have to explain this again?
Scroll up troll. All will be revealed.
I know what you mean though. How dare out of staters actually be concerned about my children. The nerve.
Randy K #101 wrote:
This isn’t about being narrow-minded. This is about following the rules by which things are done.
Scientific methods have evolved (yes) over time in order to help us avoid human error. They’re the opposite of “faith” — which is nothing more than putting spin on evidence in order to fit everything into one’s own self-selected biases. The practice of science therefore has an in-built morality — humility, objectivity, and truth-telling.
If you don’t like the discipline inherent in doing science, then don’t pretend to be doing it. The Creation Museum is not just another “point-of-view.” It’s factually wrong.
Lies harm all of us. Even you. Maybe even especially you.
Randy K: they folded after hearing from a few closed minded people
Randy, I think you’re a god-soaked idiot who believes people lived with dinosaurs. Does that make me close minded? I don’t think so. Why don’t you grow up and educate yourself, Christian moron.
And those sets of laws say creationism is full of shit on so many levels. It’s not about being closed-minded, it’s that creationism is so factually wrong that only geocentrists can be more wrong.
If the zoo had done a deal with a holocaust denial museum, you could imagine the outrage. Would you be quick to jump in and call those people who are outraged closed minded?
Group back pat in order.
The best parallel I can think of is for it to be suggested that a local hospital allow Christian Scientists to come in and tend to people for a day instead of real doctors, surgeons, nurses and medical specialists.
Organisations that embody science – like the Cincinnati Zoos – should not even recognise an organisation like the Creation Museum, let alone allow its good name to be tarnished by allowing them attempt to gain credibility through association.
The proper response at the initial suggestion should have been something brief and to the point, perhaps ‘Fuck off, lying scumbags. Peddle your nonsense elsewhere.’
Just a funny aside — the link to the Creation Museum site now returns a 404 error in which a very elementary spelling error is made:
“Sorry, the page your looking for cannot be found.”
HAHAHAHAHAHH. I know I’m just being a bitch, but come ON.
Trying to picture it – would there be exhibits at the Holocaust Denial Museum?
Dont you just love the Intertubez !!!
Happy for all the locals whose mails and calls and letters made a difference here to prevent this insanity.
The comments on the Inquirer site,however,thats a different story.
My oh my,never in my lifetime will I visit this cesspit of ignorance and stupidity that is the US of A.
@ 86,
Funny you should mention that,I saw it last night on YT,and Lewis Black was saying exactly the same thing !
Yay! Happy happy joy joy!
If you want to see some real narrow minds, ask a fundamentalist to be open to the concept that god doesn’t exist. Their mind is closed almost as tight as Fort Knox.
Scientists have to be relatively open minded. As the data comes in from a series of experiments we have to adapt our thinking to what the evidence says. That being said, scientists tend to have decent BS detectors too. Creationism sets off our BS detectors because it tries to manufacture evidence to fit their preconceived idea the “goddidit”. It isn’t the concept of “goddidit” that bothers scientists, even though science ignores god, as the manufacturing of evidence. That is a very serious offense for a scientist. One does not bear false witness professionally.
They somehow have exhibits at a creation museum…
My oh my,never in my lifetime will I visit this cesspit of ignorance and stupidity that is the US of A.
Yes, when I’m not teaching this week I’ll be attending films and lectures at those cesspits of ignorance and stupidity, Harvard and MIT. *scowl*
Son, you are still free to buy a ticket to either or both. Nothing is stopping you or anyone else.
Of course, Randy. Science is a way to explain how stuff works. It is up to us to learn how to explain how we work. Still workin’ on it. Yes, I’m impatient too but I will not insist that everyone listen to me and obey my chosen ISS*.
(Right on, bro. (Is there an echo in here?))
On point, Randy. One question that has been burning me up lately is to simply ask how any human can know the will of any supposed creator and speak clearly and credibly of said creator, no matter how improbable or ordinary. (An Ordinary Creator? Woot!)
I have heard at least one hundred people claim such and have noted that they are not all in agreement. Of course, they all claim the same authority.
I suppose at this point there are few questions left to ask and only a tired farewell to be said. But no such luck. You and yours are incorrigible. Nonetheless, you are part of the whole and are thus accorded a measure of respect and affection, which is the want of our kind. (Humans, that is.) I have no authority to withhold such recognition from you. Though I am tempted, I realize I cannot, by virtue of my humanity, dammit.
How is it that the US lags well behind the rest of the developed world in secondary education but is a world leader when it comes to tertiary education?
Oops.
To address the asterisk in my last comment:
*ISS = Invisible Supernatural Spook
Clear?
Kel, that would be ketchup.
#113
I only
stealborrow from the best!Still trying to picture it, though.
Size, perhaps. (Note: This brief answer contains/conceals numerous considerations.)
Rev BDC,OM @#8:
Good call there, but you missed the comparison to Nazis. How could you? Don’t you know that science leads to killing people?
What prompted me to call Chad Yelton, Director of Marketing of the Cincinnati Zoo this morning is that I feel that Ken Ham’s Flintstone Sin & Salvation Show is a fraud. It is a sham foisted upon the citizenry, targeting primarily the innocent and the uninformed.
It presents itself as a science museum, but it is actually a monument to ignorance.
I can’t wait till Easter for the unveiling of the new Sarah Palin Wing, featuring certified genuine, actual, real reproductions of the Paluxi track footprints. The diorama will show the footprints leading Adam, Eve, and a friendly herd of dinosaurs to an animitronic Hell.
Uh-oh…..
You are missing the point about choice. What you choose is not always best for everyone no? If you don’t allow your children to make up their own minds on right and wrong how can you expect them to make any kind of decision on their own? I for one choose to make up my own mind as did most of you by applauding those who take away the choices of others. Are you guys really patting each other on the back for making a zoo reverse course on a marketing decision? You guys are champions, move over superman the next time you say a prayer they will be there with kryptonite.
Fret not – it wasn’t a real scowl.
I’ll email soon. :)
And you are missing the point about telling the truth.
If you lie to your children, how can they know what right and wrong even is?
You can make up your mind however you want. But you don’t get to lie to people and say that it is the truth.
We are “patting each other on the back” for enforcing truth in advertising, and the separation of church and state.
Are you in favor of fraud and theocracy?
Randy K,
2 things here.
One,creationists are not generally best known for giving their children choices in what to believe,or teach them to make their own decisions.Some people liken what creationists do to their children to child abuse,me included.
Two,this was not about children making choices.Its about an insitution like a zoo that should be ciommitted to science,evolution and conservation sending out a wrong message by associating itself with a anti-science abomination like the creation museum,where children are being told lies about science and evolution.
*sigh of relief*
Randy K, a fool, wrote:
No, you are missing the point about children being fed blatant lies being taught as truth. If part of the creation museum’s policy was to highlight in their material that their findings not only aren’t supported by science but contradict it then perhaps they would probably be tolerated as annoying idiots and mostly ignored.
But they aren’t. They are liars hoping to sell their lies to children who mightn’t yet be capable of telling the difference between their nonsense and facts.
We did not ‘make a zoo reverse its course on a marketing decision’, we performed a public service by blocking a cult of lying antiscience scumbags from leaching off a credible organisation to spread propaganda.
And as for your lame Superman analogy, well, you can cram your kryptonite up your ass, with walnuts. You’re not worth a bucket of Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster’s piss.
Listen, Randy. There is a big difference between the stories you tell small children and the field trips you take high school kids on. Surely even you must know that when you are a child you think as one and when you start to grow up you think differently and as you continue to grow you think differently and all your life as you continue to learn you think diff-.
Eh? What?
You already know how to think? After the same fashion that I once followed? Said briefly: “It appeals to me and lots of other people subscribe and there is a reference to an old book of rules.” This is your refuge? Brother, please. Try thinking on your own.
I can’t reasonably ask you to defend your entire faith, but I will ask you why you imply that it is necessary to have supernatural assistance in order to live lives well recalled.
So Randy, do you think it’s fine if a reputable historical institution allied itself with a holocaust denial organisation?
So you think I’m missing the truth because I think people should make their own decisions? Did your parents not practice Christmas and have you believe there was a Santa Claus or an Easter Bunny? Do you still believe in them? I guess that makes them just as evil as those anti-science guys. Choice. If it’s all such a shim sham pack of lies what are you so afraid of, why not campaign against Santa and every other holiday figure. Guess that means giving gifts this Christmas is out since there is no Santa. oh drats!
Randy #127 wrote:
As others have pointed out, people are free to go to the Creation Museum, the Cincinnati Zoo, or both. They can go, and take their children, and everyone can “make up their own mind,” as you put it.
But people are not free to choose what is valid and legitimate science. There are standards, and the Creation Museum fails to meet them. No “marketing decision” should lead an institution to betray what it’s about.
Let me put it this way. It would be like The Creation Museum making a two-for-one ticket deal with a casino. Gambling, nudie girlie shows, the works. If the people who supported and enjoyed the Creation Museum reacted with horror over the connection — and pointed out, quite rightly, that casinos were no place for conservative families and represented everything that “the Biblical world view” was against — then it would be reasonable for the Creation Museum to remove that particular promotion from their website and museum. This isn’t censorship, nor is anyone being prevented from going to the casino, if they wish.
But people would feel that the Creation Museum stands for something — and encouraging families to go to a Casino is not one of those things. Even to encourage attendance, or make a buck. There are larger issues.
That is how we feel about the zoo. The zoo is for legitimate science education. It’s a matter of integrity.
Randy
The most important thing we can teach our children is how to look at something rationaly and make a proper choice.
Our job, as adults, is to protect them from these charlatans who want to destroy their thoughts.
We are charged with providing them the intellectual tools that will allow them to make informed decisions when we aren’t there to lead them.
These people want to take those tools away from our children.
What do you want to do with my children?
So you would have no problems with a reputable historical organisation that aids in the teaching of children to ally with a holocaust denial museum?
My sister, a membership holder at the zoo, responded swiftly to the call to action. I was quite proud.
It’s nice to see that they acted appropriately on this… hopefully in the future they’ll be more careful.
Troll Randy
You’re not confused. You’re just an asshole.
Do you really believe this kindergarden crap you’re throwing out, cause I gotta tell you lad, you’re out of your league on this site.
Think more deeply before you post, or don’t post.
You may not like the outcome otherwise.
“I would defend the liberty of consenting adult creationists to practice whatever intellectual perversions they like in the privacy of their own homes; but it is also necessary to protect the young and innocent.” Arthur C. Clarke
No, son. You miss the truth because you believe that others should reach the same decisions as you. It is a fine detail, I know, but there it is.
Randy, as a working scientist I get very irate when some non-scientific group/theory tries to pass themselves off as the real thing. If they aren’t science, they shouldn’t claim to be. Bearing false witness that is. And only science can refute science, so pretending religion refutes science is also a lie.
Randy, coming across dumber with each post, wrote:
Have I missed something? Are there people attempting to have Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny taught as fact in science classes at public schools?
Get a clue, dipshit. What these people are teaching isn’t the problem. It’s a problem, but it’s not the problem; the problem is that they’re attempting to trick people into thinking something that has so scientific legitimacy might just be taken seriously if something like a zoo is on its side. And these lying scumbags desperately need someone to take them seriously so they have a chance of perpetuating their lies in schools.
Do you get it now? It’s not the lying that’s the problem, it’s the tacking on of the lies to something truthful in order to fool people.
Hooray for the good guys!
#9 – I often wonder about the wording of some of those polls. Even if these groups are the majority, or a near majority, we (the other 1/2 or so) have let them take the ‘high’ ground. I’m just saying that rationalists have decided that there is no need to be polite any more and are speaking up and saying that the emperor has no clothes – and that this will, and is, making a difference. Perhaps when some of the godbots see that there are other points of view, and are shown why there are other points of view, it will wake them up. At least some of them. A few? One? – one step at a time.
Randy K: “Guess that means giving gifts this Christmas is out since there is no Santa.”
C’mon, you can do better than this.
You sound like one of those christians who say morality is out if there is no god. If grown people are only giving gifts on christmas because they think santa is real, there’s a bigger problem with that than the reality or non-reality of santa.
You’re on the right track, David. It is not always required that one be overly accommodating. But, NB, it is sometimes wise to be harmless. It is one thing to suggest that someone’s philosophy is full of holes and another to suggest that one adherent is a dunderhead.
The first case may be demonstrated by a simple statement of fact while the later may only be asserted by appeal to existing prejudice. Which is of course a background condition. The monster we all strive with.
Tough, innit?
I came here with a difference of opinion to comment on the dangers of removing choice and disappointment in the zoo over removing something after a few complaints. I did not come to look for supporters only to open your minds to the evils of removing choice and not allowing one to choose for them self which is right, or wrong. Several of you have insulted me or called me names, but I thank you for showing your intelligence level and that you are unable to carry on a debate or any type of conversation beyond a grade school level. A rare few of you I applaud for keeping on topic and not joining the primitives simply because I have a difference in opinion. Get out the torches Frankenstein is in town, he doesn’t look like us or act like us so let’s just stick a fork in him.
Again, I ask. Would you have no problems with a reputable historical organisation that aids in the teaching of children to ally with a holocaust denial museum?
Randy, one handcrank short of an engine-start, wrote:
What debate? All you did was offer us evidence that you’re a tool. We agreed.
Here’s a thought for you, dumbass – just because two people have a difference of opinion doesn’t mean that the correct answer lies halfway in between the two. Sometimes one is completely wrong – in this case it’s you, and the retarded antiscience creationists you’re defending.
Oh, and ‘Grade school level’? Are you shitting me? You, with the sentence construction skills of an above-average manatee, are trying to call us ‘grade shool level’? Oh Randy, you do make me laugh. At you, not with you.
Literature fail, assclown. Doctor Frankenstein was the scientist, not the monster. I said you weren’t worth a bucket of Jerry Seigel and Joe Shuster’s piss; you’re also not worth a scoop of Mary Shelley’s shit.
I’m sticking a fork in you, Randy – ’cause you’re done.
You mean I wasn’t comforting, Randy? I tried to be. You didn’t hear. You chose to listen to criticism that is easy to respond to, knee-jerk wise, as you have been taught or lead.
. . . all that effort to naught . . .
If it is any comfort, I will not stick a fork in you. You don’t appear done to me.
Randy, there are people asking genuine questions about your position, and all you are doing is getting indignant at those you insulted by calling them closed minded. How about you answer my question before you take the high ground? I see your evasion tactic.
Honestly, Randy. Don’t run off like so many other defenders of faith. Our questions and our appeals are quite sincere.
Ok. Some of our questions and appeals are quite sincere and if you have just a bit of wit at hand then you should recognize the challenge. I’ll admit that some of the folks here are challenged in terms of earnest speech. But I’ll be the first among equals (and betters!) to ask you to stick around. Put your thoughts in order and record them here. As time goes by, review the replies. Consider. As time goes by.
It’s not us against you. It’s all of us for each other.
If we can stand it.
E Pluribus Unum.
I didn’t insult him (unlike him automatically insulting us and comparing us to nazis in his first post), and I’ve asked the same question of him 4 times? He chose to ignore me then claim the moral high ground because people were insulting him. It’s quite sad really, it was such a simple question too.
Posted by: Randy K | December 1, 2008
So you think I’m missing the truth because I think people should make their own decisions? Did your parents not practice Christmas and have you believe there was a Santa Claus or an Easter Bunny? Do you still believe in them? I guess that makes them just as evil as those anti-science guys. Choice. If it’s all such a shim sham pack of lies what are you so afraid of, why not campaign against Santa and every other holiday figure. Guess that means giving gifts this Christmas is out since there is no Santa. oh drats!
Randy. Poor, poor little Randy. Have you not noticed, most children; by the time they are five,six or seven; have figured out that there is no Santa Clause. But most are smart enough to play along. Every year, there are millions of children getting presents at Christmas, despite the fact that most of the children know that their gifts are coming from their families. Yet somehow, Christmas, in the modern way of celebration, remains enjoyable for all of those children.
Wait a minute, I understand now. You want all of us “evilutionists” to to act like all of the children who know that there is no Santa Claus. You want us to shut up about what we know to be true and just play along with the likes of you.
Randy opened his account here by comparing us to Nazis, then denigrated our intelligence and described us as ‘unable to carry on a debate or any type of conversation beyond a grade school level’.
He received nothing more than he deserved – and far less than he would have experienced had someone like Truth Machine been here.
I’ll cut Randy just a little slack on the Nazi comparison. Given that it is the most completely democratized horror of all. Easy to learn, easy to recite, easy to accept easy to be nauseated by. Mentioned by the bleakly educated when it seems to make them appear prescient (but only in retrospect) or protective by calling attention to a fault in another. Also mentioned by those who have a fault to disguise by decrying something worse.
As if this folly has not always been part of the human experience.
So it’s like this, Randy. You can accept the evidence of your senses (which has served well enough to provide you with a life full of artificial materials and this high level of communication) and consider yourself lucky to know at least a bit about the world you live in, or. (Inhale!) You can admit that your perspective, like mine, is limited. Even if I did believe in a master spirit I would not for a moment consider speaking on it’s behalf. What do I know of creation and the making of poor souls destined to choose between fate, free will and the endlessly mucking about of faith? Well, nothing, really. Except some silly shit I was taught years ago that I used to offer up just as you do. Until I realized that there is no magic. If something good happens, people are responsible. If something bad happens, people are responsible. If things just go on without distraction, people are responsible. If a planet is not struck by another, people are probably not responsible. If a person earns love and respect through their lives, people are probably responsible. If . . . well, your turn.
Respectfully, CW
. . . and so, Good Night.
Seeker @96
Looking at the tabs at the top of the screenshot, I thought I was seeing my own browser. Weird.
It’s great that this problem was dealt with. I think it is a bit disappointing, though, that zoos don’t universally promote evolution.
Randy,
as all ignorants, you’re much worried about freedom of choice to make up for freedom of thought, which you obviously deny yourself.
i hate to disract you from your fun guys, but i think that Aardvarcheology is in trouble. The “legend” John A Davidson has reared his ugly peckerhead in one of the threads. It’s not pretty. Assistance is our duty as pharyngulites, let us not hastily abandon our Aardvarkian comrades!
i hate to disract you from your fun guys, but i think that Aardvarcheology is in trouble. The “legend” John A Davidson has reared his ugly peckerhead in one of the threads. It’s not pretty. Assistance is our duty as pharyngulites, let us not hastily abandon our Aardvarkian comrades!
//i hate to disract you from your fun guys, but i think that Aardvarcheology is in trouble//
Attacked by comments?
Mate,Im busy,you want to go comment your life away,do it,but dont bother me with it.
Yeah, Rick, clinteas probably had a rough day yanking foreign objects out of people’s asses – give him a break!
Hehe,Wowbagger,
no foreign objects today,I had the day off…
Didnt exaxtly enjoy last nite tho,had to re-insert this guys chest drain 2 times,and was just about ready to murder someone LOL
So trying to get as wasted as possible atm,and making good progress…
Happy to pharyngulate whatever,but a blogger attacked by hostile comments? Give me a break lol
Rick,
did my part, wouldn’t want to miss a JADIWOTI.
Because they’re afraid people will go postal.
Sastra (#136):
Field trip!!
From Canada
Well revoking this will be of great gain also.
It shows to Creationists and Christians in general that while the Zoo belongs to everyone what it taught as truth and not truth belongs to only some. this is always a good lesson in community relations. If your side is rejected just because of some beliefs and not any other reason then its official that your beliefs are not legitimate.
Well then evolution can be here or there or one everywhere illegitimate by popular opinion.
Anyways another threat to the establishment evolution beliefs was made.
All this from a rather new kid on the block. The creation museum.
Indeed this should be a concern and issue with all the people and not just a few in administration. Big principals here.
If its that important to stop a rather minor thing in numbers of people who would be involved then its important enough for the whole country to decide on what beliefs of origins will be allowed in common held institutions and so on.
If this zoo is saying creationism is not true and so for many Christianity then its saying truth is to be controled.
no its a free country and all beliefs that have substantial supoort must be allowed without prejudice.
One could say a rejection by this Zoo is more desirable then a quiet invisable acceptance.
The march of creationism is helped by its opponents.
Agitate, agitate, agitate as they say.
Mr Byers,
I am a bit concerned about your mental health,your post is full of spelling and grammar errors,and shows a degree of scattering of thoughts that is reminiscent of people with mental illness.
You might want to contact your GP or mental health practitioner.
I could not tell what the actual message was that you wanted to get across.
I see.
My retard radar is going off, that’s strange… oh wait. It’s Robert Byers. Showing up once again to offer his worthless opinion.
Robert Byers:
You’re right, it IS a good lesson, but it’s a lesson for YOU and you’re not learning from it. What is ‘taught as truth’ DOESN’T belong to everyone, it belongs to those who can provide demonstrable evidence that they’re right. Someone doesn’t get an equal claim on ‘truth’ just because they think they’re right. They have to actually show it. The Creation Museum doesn’t.
I really don’t even get what you’re going on about in the rest of your post, I get the general jist of it, you’re being persecuted by the evil darwinists, right? I agree with clinteas, people with mental disorders often rant incoherently about people who they think are harassing them.
Translation :
From Canada
Blah blah blah.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah.
I was also looking forward to you (Robert Byers) answering Kel’s question he’s asked you 4 times now but you keep avoiding. Do you think it’s okay for a respected historical society which teaches children to partner with a holocaust denial museum?
Are you actually going to answer this time, or are you going to continue avoiding the question?
I suggest an experiment – we all get shitfaced drunk and write some long, polyparagraphical comments on a blog where the topic is something we only barely understand. Once that’s done we go to sleep. Next day, once we’ve recovered, we go back and read them to see if they’re more or less coherent than Robert Byers blathering nonsense.
Thing is, I suspect we’d still make more sense than he does.
Isnt that what we are doing here every day already??
I think there is a hidden message in Byers’ comments, let’s see who can find what it is :
From Canada
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
I rarely drink and blog. Once I have a few I appear to lose the ability to read. I shudder to think what my writing would be like.
But you’re right about ‘barely understand’, though – the last time I studied anything resembling science was over twelve years ago and that was chemistry, in which I discovered I’m arguably the least competent person in the world when it comes to lab work.
I always drink and blog.What are you talking about??
And then SC scowls at me and tells me Ive been a dick LOL
Clinteas,
that made me thirsty, just went and pour myself a (little) J&B. Cheers !
Neg,
this blog is a little bit like ‘Cheers” methinks,the place you go after a long day for a drink,a laugh,a think……
Cheers mate,its beer for this one…
I drink and do stuff online all the time. yesterday I drank and played some Team Fortress 2, got my arse handed to me. Don’t be a sniper when you have inhibited reflexes.
I don’t think I could get myself drunk enough to be incoherent like Byers. I’d give myself alcohol poisoning even trying to.
@Matt #95
My comment was meant as humor. I may have failed. Perhaps I should post more often so you can tell when I’m joking.
@ Randy, #101
I trust I can count on your support for my plan to let teenagers choose for themselves between abstinence or the Kama Sutra.
Clinteas,
in the evening, I like to smoke a little joint whilst bloging. (Which is authorised in Spain, as long as it’s done within a private property)
Yet, haven’t managed to achieve the incoherence level displayed in comment #169. I think.
The incoherence level displayed is indeed mindboggling…
A lil joint hey…
I dont even know anyone anymore who would be able to provide that,I mjst be getting old LOL
Ozland isn’t really friendly to this kind of things if remember well.
Plenty of dope heads here LOL,no problem finding like-minded people if you know where to look…
Paul @183
Perhaps a smiley next time. ;)
There’s no body language on the internet to help, just words.
I wonder if for breakfast randy offers his children (if he has any) the choice between cheerios and asbestos. After all both are just choices, and you wouldn’t want to deny a child the right to choose.
Randy kept talking choices, but did not really define what the choices were. Randy, you have the real science of evolution versus the religion of creationism. If you have a science class, no religion should be taught, only science. Creationism tries to pretend it is scientific, but the US courts have seen through their lies and declared it a religious theory. If creationism would acknowledge it is religion, and accept its place in schools as religion, science wouldn’t have as much problem with what creobots try to do.
You know, you have a choice to not take advantage of this type of promotion. Why take that choice away from us who choose to believe what we believe. You people say that Christians try and force their beliefs down everyone’s throat…but it is the exact opposite and this just proves it.
You people are a bunch of crybabies that whine whenever you feel something religious takes the front seat to your beliefs. Get over it, read the Bible. In the end. We win.
Shelly, believe it or not, one of the fastest ways to become an atheist is to read the bible in its totality. I read it twice. It is a terrible book, where allegedly pious people do horrible things to other people. God of the bible is the equivalent of a gangster.
Shelly, religion and science divorced a couple of centuries ago. Science has brought much knowledge to advance mankind, as it changes with the physical evidence and brings different fields together. Whereas religion has not done much due to the stagnant knowledge base, the bible, and has become essentially mental masturbation with time.
Religion needs to quit pretending to be the equivalent of science.
Your poor English aside, are you seriously gloating over the fact that in a fairy tale, written by people of a particular religion, those people portray themselves as winning (in a fictional land in the sky)?! Are you also one of the people who thinks soap operas are real (and that the actors in them are really the same as or like the characters they portray)?
Dear Robert Byers,
Please stop indicating in your Schizophrenic-like posts that you come from Canada.
Sincerely,
All those who live in Canada
P.S. Feel free to write “From Australia”
Randy K the creationist liar @ #148:
No, you didn’t. You came here to whine about imaginary censorship and call people Nazis.
Randy K the creationist liar @ #101:
You don’t make a post like that when there’s an honest difference of opinion. You obviously don’t give a flying fuck about “choice”, you’re just looking for any excuse to avoid criticism of the frauds at the Creation Anti-Museum.
Randy K the creationist liar @ @127:
No, you are missing the point, deliberately. There are ways to tell which ideas are best, which fit with observed reality. Evolution has passed every test. Creationism has failed them all miserably. And yet creationists persist in LYING, distorting the evidence and promoting fraud. The Creation Anti-Museum is a monument to dishonesty. It exists to promote and perpetuate falsehood. No reputable institution should partner with it, as doing so would give legitimacy to a fraud, and tarnish the reputation of any organization foolish enough to enter into such a partnership.
Randy K the delusional creationist liar @ #101:
This hasn’t happened outside your delusional fantasies. The creation anti-museum still exists. You are allowed to buy your own damn ticket there. There is no vast conspiracy hiding in the shadows to kidnap you in black helicopters if you try to enter that monument to fraud. Though if you feel more comfortable I’m sure you are free to wear your tinfoil hat in.
The only thing that has ended is the idiotic arrangement with the zoo that gave the frauds an excuse to pretend a reputable organization endorsed their lies. But that’s what you really can’t stand, isn’t it? You know creationism can’t survive without fraud, and that fraud needs to be propped up at all costs. You know perfectly well that the idiocy promoted at the creation anti-museum can’t survive on its own merits, so the frauds there have to act as parasites on other institutions.
You whine about censorship, when what you really want is to censor anyone who dares point out that creationism is a fraud. As expected from a creationist, you are lying. Isn’t your imaginary god supposed to have some sort of problem with bearing false witness?
Randy K the fraud @ #127:
Ah, yet more lies. No one’s choices were taken away, and you have been informed of this already, so the fact that you persist in claiming it makes you an obvious liar. And you clearly did NOT choose to make up your own mind. You chose dogma and borrowed delusion. That’s all creationism is. Rejection of reality and parroting ancient myths. A self-inflicted lobotomy.
And I notice you still hide from Kel’s question. Would you have no problems with a reputable historical organisation that aids in the teaching of children to ally with a holocaust denial museum?
So, Randy, why are you incapable of answering this question? Or any question, for that matter? Terrified of revealing that all your whining about “choice” is nothing more than a smokescreen to hide the fact that you’re a liar? How eager are you to promote obvious falsehoods? Would you support a planetarium seriously claiming that the moon is made of green cheese? Would you support a hospital cutting off all medical treatments and declaring the sick demonically posessed? Should white supremacist organizations be given equal time during Black History Month? Or do you only support lies that prop up your own delusions?
In response to the batshit insanity of Robert Byers, dumbest man in Canada:
Mr. Byers, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may your imaginary god have mercy on your nonexistent soul.
(Hat tip to Billy Madison)
Shelly #192
What you believe is not the issue. I fully support and will fight for your right to believe any batshit insane thing you want.
The issue is when you try to pass off your batshit insane beliefs as science, and ally yourself with scientific institutions to leach some of their credibility. It’s morally wrong for you creationists to be dishonest like this.
Nobody has taken away your choice to believe what you want or go to the creation museum and hobnob with other batshit insane people.
Shelley: The Bible is just a book of stories. You would have better luck trying to scare us with a volume of Grimms’ fairy tales.
“You know, you have a choice to not take advantage of this type of promotion.”
We also have the choice to persuade the Cincinnati Zoo not to embrace superstition and become a laughingstock. It’s for their own good. The Creation Museum can continue being a laughingstock while not trying to drag respectable institutions down with it.
Color me amused… the oh so professional 404 page …
“Sorry, the page your looking for cannot be found.”
Perhaps a museum looking to partner professionally should learn the difference between your and you’re.
Why is it that being a creationist is socially acceptable and being a holocaust denier isn’t? There’s far more evidence evolution happened than there is for the holocaust, but those who deny evolution seem proud to be ignorant of basic science. It would be great if they picked up a science book and actually learnt about what they are rejecting instead of just spouting ideological nonsense.
Is it too much to inform yourself about a topic before you go on about it being wrong?
Too bad that a few angry people who are threatened by an opposing view can annoy the Zoo folks into cancelling a perfectly good package deal. Can’t the dinosaur people and the monkey people just get along? :-)
As soon as creationists stop trying to undermine science with absolute falsehoods and preying on the minds of children, sure. Denying evolution is intellectually worse than denying the holocaust, all the evidence points to a gradual emergence of life and diversity over hundreds of millions of years. Saying the world is 6000 years old goes again: cosmology, astronomy, nuclear physics, geology, and all of biology. It’s a complete rejection of scientific facts.
This isn’t some post modern society where all ideas are born equal, it’s possible to be outright wrong. Denying all that we know in science is not honourable, it’s flat out deceptive. And if the creation museum was a holocaust denial museum, I’m sure you’d see why we are outraged that a reputable institution would ally with such peddlers of lies.
P.S. Feel free to write “From Australia”
Or Zimbabwe. Cool name. And i could understand if he was in some underdeveloped country, and Science hadn’t penetrated through the psychological damage of the missionaries mind-raping them.
He’s your problem, not ours.
Or is this a case of “think globally, act locally”? Nope, this isn’t about recycling. He’s Canada’s shame. We’ve got Ken Ham and Russell Crowe (NZ won’t take him back) to worry about
Yeah, we definitely don’t want Ken Ham back – while I don’t live in Queensland anymore I know people who do (Bride of Shrek, plus all my family and many friends) and they don’t deserve him.
Send him to Saudi Arabia. He’d probably love it once he’d decided Islam was the one true religion.
Grant Miller #202
How many times, exactly, do we have to prove the ‘opposing view’ to be flat out wrong and a lie before we can just go straight to saying they don’t deserve any attention without being labeled as ‘threatened’?
Just because someone tells you you’re wrong and to shut up about it doesn’t mean they’re threatened by you and trying to censor you. It might simply be the fact that you’re wrong and you need to shut up about it.
“Can’t the dinosaur people and the monkey people just get along? :-)”
I got news for you: We’re the dinosaur people and the monkey people. I don’t see any creationists discovering, excavating, and categorizing fossils or studying, conserving, and caring for monkeys.
All that creationists ever do is sit on their worthless butts making up new interpretations of old myths and the scientific facts and discoveries made by the people who do the actual work. Yet they still demand equal time in classrooms and to stain respectable institutions with their fairy tales.