I heard this third hand, so it’s not exactly the most well-founded rumor around, but a contact with inside information in the Southern Baptist Ministries has heard that they want to help out with the koo-koo descent into creationist madness that is Florida. They have asked their Florida churches to send information to businesses and school boards — a fine idea, and perfectly acceptable practice, I would think — but you have to see the “information” to believe it.
The rumor is that they’re going to send a tract called Apes, Lies, and Ms. Henn. That’s right, a Jack Chick tract.
I’m torn. It seems unlikely, but on the other hand, it’s just stupid enough that it could be true. On our side we have the whole of the scientific literature; on theirs, a comic book featuring a little girl saying “We didn’t come from monkeys.” And which one will win is uncertain.
Floridians, keep an eye open and let me know if there is a sudden influx of Chick inanity in your community.
It would be great if they included young earth; it’s so easy to disprove!
That’s the value of pounding on ID (NOVA did it best), it equalizes Behe’s and Jack Chick’s pseudoscience in the eyes of many who initially thought the former was more respectable. Then anything goes.
Like a leader in the church I was raised in (SDA) said, since the evidence doesn’t really support any of the creationist concepts, from OEC to YEC, one might as well go with what agrees best with the Bible (one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard, from my perspective, entirely reasonable from his “worldview” (well, set of prejudices)).
Why not, especially since that’s the goal of the vast majority anyhow? But Dembski and Behe are impressive to people who are half-educated in science and who wish to believe, while Chick with the rest of the YECs are laughable on the face of it.
OK, so we don’t really know if Chick tracts are going to be sent out to “lend credibility” to creationism. It’s certainly not too stupid to be true, though.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
as a graduate of the florida public school system, i’m placing my bets on the comic book.
Oh yeah, evilutionists, uh I mean cdesign proponentsists? Well, smarty-pants and Poindexters, if all of your so-called “science” is sooooo good, answer me this: if we evolved from slime, then why does my trash can still have slime?
Gotcha!
I checked out the tract and it sure is persuasive. Why, it even has references, like the one to Dr. Kent Hovind. (Chick tracts insist on the best possible sources, you see.)
Not sure, though, why baby Christians like Susy and the black boy she recruits for Jesus always have such big, big eyes. God must like Keane-eyed kids.
OMG, that tile on the left, 15 down, when she says “Jesus did something special for you yada yada… that girl is missing pupils…. she’s possessed!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
I thought one of the ICR’s new strategies was to allow other groups to make the religious arguments, not inundate the school board with obvious religious propaganda.
I’d say this is a good thing. If this issue goes to trial, the school board won’t be able to say their ideas were influenced only by the science.
“If you believe in evolution, you’ll end up in hell”
how sick in the head does a fucker have to be to write something like that for kids?
“No, Timmy, most people will end up in hell.”
*shudder*
Because you don’t recycle your hagfish.
Tard.
Bob
That comic is the embodiment of Poe’s Law. Personally, I thought the little girl looked like a junky in all the close ups.
How come Jackie’s tracts always have mean ol’ nuns masquerading as scientist teachers?
Oh yeah, he hates Catholics as much as evolutionists.
“Aw shit buddy, I’d take Dagwood over Darwin any day” –Charlie Daniels
I hadn’t heard of Jack Chick, so I checked out the rest of the website. The page on inerrancy in the Quran greatly amused me:
Boy, you can cut the hypocrisy with a knife.
Then later on,
I wonder why is the Bible not subject to the same standards?
It must really suck to be that stupid. I mean, can Jack Chick even dress himself in the morning? I just don’t think it’s possible.
I’m going to give away just how much of a nerd I am by saying this, but does Jack Chick remind anyone else of a Gibbering Mouther?
He certainly reminds me of a formless, mouthy mass that spews forth nothing but nonsense and bile in its quest to devour the intelligent.
Mike (#14), because The Holy Bible is the inerrant word of God!
Every now and then I get a Chick Tract in email, converted to text sans graphics, disguised as one of those educational/uplifting stories that circulate. It’s usually the one about the young believer in the lecture hall who pwns the arrogant atheistic professor by arguing that the existence of evil is necessary for the existence of good, therefor God exists. Or something.
Anti-intellectualism is alive and well here in the good old U.S. of A.
I know it’s been said here before that the line between Christianity and parody is razor thin sometimes, but this comic is utterly absurd. My first instinct is “parody.”
…If you believe in evolution you will end up in hell!? Seriously? And how is it even possible that a Bible-believer can write lines like the above-mentioned commentary on the Koran with a straight face? If I didn’t know better I’d think it was in the Onion or something.
And just what did you expect them to do, PZ? Come up with something new?
They’re religious. If their God didn’t want them to plagiarise each other and everyone else, he wouldn’t have written down everything there was to know about everything in a big definitive book thousands of years ago.
If this ends up being Kitzmiller v. Dover played out in Florida, this is going to be one of those rare cases where the sequel is better than the original.
Chick via Mike
I thought it was egnorance that was born ?
BTW – new blogger! Please be kind @ Invisible Hand, check out my Dembski post!
Back in 2001 portions of Chick’s “Big Daddy” tract showed up in an Arkansas anti-evolution bill. The sponsor of the bill even brought in “Dr.” Kent Taxcheat to testify in favour of it. Thankfully it never became law.
Maybe you should remind the Southern Baptist Ministries of what they declare on their own website under the heading “Basic Beliefs.” In the sub-heading they state, “Church and state should be separate.”
Go to: http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/basicbeliefs.asp
If everyone in Florida is an insecure and frightened 11-year-old, then it’ll work.
Chick tracts scared the hell out of me (pun intended) when I was a kid. So I went to church.
So, always remember kids: God loves each and every one of you — even though probably you and your parents are going to suffer eternally. It’s just an expression of His Love.
There really should be a “battered person syndrome” for xians, some formal psychological classification for this dysfunction…
If one is concerned that “If YOU believe in Evolution instead of Jesus, you’ll end up in hell”, the solution’s simple…believe both!
I love the last panel where it says “Nobody else can save you. Trust Jesus today!” Sounds like a late-night infomercial.
Also like the little check-off boxes under “Did you accept Jesus Christ as your own personal Saviour?” with a line for the date.
NO 1-16-08
If anyone needs to get the nasty Jack Chick taste out of their mouth, I recommend Who Will Be Eaten First?
This statement beats them all :
“If you believe in Evolution instead of Jesus, you’ll end up in hell”
Think about what can happen to a 10-14 year old child when an adult says this to him.
I’m really not of the violent type, I can barely believe that in a modern society, someone would say this to a child, but if I were witness to this, I think I would lose my temper.
I know, I know, freedom of speech, but what about when what is being said can cause irreparable damage to a child ? Is this also constitutionally protected ?
Thanks, Mister DNA!
That was great.
I had never seen any of these before so I checked out a couple at random. Between Huckters “Lets change the Constitution”, to watching Jesus Camp last night, to this… I quiet frankly scared shitless these people might actually take control. We can talk about reason and rationality all we want, but these types of people have joyously jumped into the ocean of insanity and are completely feeding on it.
Ahh, Jack Chick. Hilarious on so many levels. Not least because he writes comic tracts set in a strange parallel world where no one but fundie Christians seem to have heard of Jesus, and everyone is instantly converted by getting told a few facts about Jesus.
“If anyone needs to get the nasty Jack Chick taste out of their mouth, I recommend Who Will Be Eaten First?”
In a similar vein, you might also try this parody of the Big Daddy tract:
http://www.facts4u.com/OffSite_Stored_Pages/wyd_files/wyd01.htm
I know what you mean, negentropyeater. There’s a big, oafish mook inside me that sometimes wants to get out and take control, plow through the crowd of religiots swinging haymakers and breaking noses, screaming “Where’s your saviour now?! Where’s your saviour now?!”
On those days I drink a lot of sleepy-time tea.
*peeks his head up*
I was in the chess club in 7th grade…….
*runs*
LOL ackkk wrong thread. Hate having multiple tabs open sometimes.
Hey, at least the Huckstable now seems to admit that the Constitution isn’t ALREADY made in the image of God. That’s progress, no?
I’m always amazed at how much money these evangelical groups have to throw around promoting and marketing this or that. Millions of free Bibles, the hilarious Atlas of Fishing Lures, and now the producers of Expelled! basically buying their box office returns by paying people to book group trips in advance. I wish I had millions of dollars to promote my views, though I’d probably just do something stupid like put it towards better funded science education.
Something’s not right. The comic didn’t mention the connection between evolution and Hitler even once.
Well, I was leaning toward believing evolution based on the mountains of scientific evidence, but now that I’ve read a poorly-written comic starring Ruth Bader Ginsburg as Mrs. Henn, I’m not so sure anymore.
Fundies: the rare combination of amusing and scary.
Frak Me.
That comic is just wrong how could people be so messed up that they think that is suitable for children?
If the fundies didn’t control large voting blocks I’d be much more likely to just laugh it off myself. I’m beginning to like the idea of buying a small island out in the south pacific. The living conditions would probably end up being about the same if they did take over, but at least I wouldn’t worry about when the gestapo would come knocking.
What I was reminded of was the ugly nurse in Shallow Hal. Do you suppose Chick goes to Farrelly brothers movies?
This could mean that either I believe in Evolution-with-a-capital-E, or Jesus does. If that’s my choice, I choose me. Jesus doesn’t believe in anything.
Mister DNA, thanks for the Cthulhu parody! It is most excellent.
Interestingly, it looks like the link PZ gave is to a mirror site — the originator of the parody was threatened with legal action by Jack Chick Publications, and forced to take it down. I would think that, as a parody, it would likely fall under Fair Use, but I suppose paying a lawyer to determine that can be expensive.
“thats right! this lie was created by the devil to keep kids out of heaven”
good to know the devil’s doing demographic research, making sure his various lies and distortions are marketed to the appropriate age bracket.
“if YOU believe in evolution instead of jesus, you’ll end up in hell.”
what was the bible passage about no one knowing god’s mind again? maybe hes pissed if you dont believe in evolution… “you idiots, i spent BILLIONS of years intelligently designing the earth so you guys could appreciate my hard work, and you make up all this bullshit about 6 days? youre just trying to screw me out of overtime pay.”
also, love the check box at the end. “did oyu accept jesus christ as your lord and saviour today? YES or NO”. like it’s a love note in an elementary school “do you like me? circle one!” if i check yes, who do i present to? if i give it to a catholic priest, do i get a cookie and a 10% off coupon or something? who, for that matter, am i supposed to show it to if i circled NO?
Of course not — if you give it to a devil-spawned idolatrous papist, you are GOING TO HELL!!!
Distributing this comic would really be the best thing that could be done for the cause of science. It is so far over the top that it would discredit the whole creationist movement. We should send copies to Florida legislators ourselves.
I’d say this is a good thing. If this issue goes to trial, the school board won’t be able to say their ideas were influenced only by the science.
no worries.
they DID say their ideas were only influenced by ID “science” in Dover, and it quickly was apparent to the judge that there was no actual ID “science” to be influential to begin with.
if they want to try that road again, more power to em.
oh right, i forgot chick is one of those “catholics are evil too” christians.
my favourite are the seventh day adventists. everyone, including all christians, are going to hell unless you refrain from committing the ULTIMATE SIN of celebrating your lord on sunday instead of saturday.
my dentist is a seventh day adventist, and he keeps their books all over his waiting room. my friend’s dad grabbed one for me. the whole book is how christians that go to church on sunday are violating the ten commandments, and going to hell. awesome.
also, he wrote in the front cover for me : “To Pat, I thought you should read this. – Love God”
Hadn’t seen that Chick tract before! It was very educational indeed. Remember, kiddies, if YOU believe in the Eeevolution, the Devil will come and take away all your shampoo and conditioner!!
Well, obviously the answer is to get Answers in Genesis’s new pew-reviewed journal into class! After the kids come home talking about the earth squeezing and pumping out magma after God’s heavenly shower, it’s just a matter of time before outraged parents demand that “such filth” be kept away from the children. :-)
And you’ll notice that in the third panel of that Chick tract, George W. is eyeing Ms. Henn’s breasts.
Won’t somebody think of the children???!
the Devil will come and take away all your shampoo and conditioner!!
That’s why I pray to the Ste. Aveda; no evil will befall my hair.
Susy Barnes was of course correct, we didn’t come from monkeys. Monkeys and humans come from a commom ancestor. Fancy Jack Chick getting something right.
Fun homework assigment:
Read that ‘Scientific Errors In The Qur’an’ page linked to above, and Find/Replace “Quran” with “Bible”, “Muslim” with “Christian”, and that sura in the middle with one of the numerous flat earth passages in the bible. You barely even have to adjust any of the sentences for it to work flawlessly as a description of Christian nonsense.
It’s like a mad-lib for debunking the bible, for christians, by a christian.
But what if you accept evolution as fact *and* believe in jesus? Does god flip a quarter to decide your fate?
You probably get sent to heck instead of hell.
#43 In addition to the “check box” at the end did you catch the part about reading the bible every day. It specifically says KJV, as if any other translation would be wrong.
On the “Fundies say the darndest things” website, there is actually an argument about the KJV. One says that it’s the ONLY translation that is accurate, that we shouldn’t translate the bible into other languages because “english is the language of christians”. Also, they say that if the KJV disagrees with the original hebrew, it’s the hebrew that is wrong.
What part of “translation” don’t they get?
SG
“english is the language of christians”
LMAO!
Wow. I had forgotten just how vile Chick tracts are. In my pre-rational days I would get these now and then at church, and even then I was disgusted by them. I’d like to think it was my natural HUMAN-ness rebelling even before I escaped the brain washing…but now I look at it and wonder if it’s just because they’re so very very evil.
“If YOU believe in Evolution instead of Jesus, you’ll end up in hell.”
I’m SAVED!!! It’s a conditional statement and I never made an either or choice. I NEVER believed in jesus and I came to accept evolutionary fact as a consequence of reading and thought (at about age 12 there was this great book- The Wonders of Life on Earth).
They pass these things out (Chick Tracks) at local Campus Crusaders for Christ meeting here on campus. All that good cellulose could have fed many a pious termite.
Boy, does that tract bring back memories. The fear, the guilt, the certainty that I had to repent and give my soul to Jesus. And the certainty that I would some day, I really, really would! And then more fear and guilt for not doing it. *shudder*
Religion has a death grip in this country, and there are some scary churches in
Floridathe south. The belief that you will be left behind if you’re not IN CHURCH and PRAYING when the rapture happens is not uncommon.It’s full blown looney tunes. Sometimes when I would pick up family members after a church service, I would get stares from people in the parking lot. They were deeply concerned that I was an unbeliever. They just couldn’t understand how someone could reject “the truth” and destine themselves to eternal hell.
Big. Damn. Insane asylum.
Boy, does that tract bring back memories. The fear, the guilt, the certainty that I had to repent and give my soul to Jesus. And the certainty that I would some day, I really, really would! And then more fear and guilt for not doing it. *shudder*
I hear that!
Giving up not only the idea of hell, but the whole nonsensical framework from which it sprang was so fucking liberating. I could actually live. And think, and question…and breathe.
After Chick’s legal threats coerced Howard Hallis into taking down his original ‘Big Daddy’ parody, I took it upon myself to redraw the whole thing. Chick’s law-thing said that the problem was unauthorized use of Chick’s glorius artwork, so total replacement of said art should make everything nice again, right? Sadly, Hallis didn’t want to use my re-drawn version… but it’s available here for anyone who might be curious.
What reason could you have for thinking you’re going to find a Florida judge with the integrity of John E. Jones III???
LOL
thanks, cubist.
bookmarked for future reference.
Good point; but remember, according to autodidact and mesomorph DaveScot, Judge Jones was supposed to be a Good Ole Boy who knew who was buttering his bread.
Regardless of the outcome, if this goes to trial we’re guaranteed a cast of characters that make Bill “I Never Said Creationism” Buckingham look reasonable by comparison.
Oops. I guess links to Uncommon Descent are a no-no. Sorry about that.
Regardless of the outcome, if this goes to trial we’re guaranteed a cast of characters that make Bill “I Never Said Creationism” Buckingham look reasonable by comparison.
fuck yeah, things have gotten a bit boring on the ID front since Dover.
bout time for another sideshow freakfest.
Help me find the one tract that tells how this omnipotent god lets the devil into the world so he’d eventually have to torture/sacrifice his son’s life…send him to hell for three days to rebuke the devil…so he could then save us from OUR frick-ups or er, sins.
It makes me feel so good and lucky to owe god for that rightousness.
Is it small wonder Chick always presents the deity as some sort of faceless blockhead?!
I had the unpleasant experience a few days ago of finding out in conversation with my elderly mother that she thinks the world was formed in 6 days via creation. I switched from the arguments for evolution to the money factor – told her the creationists had lost in court and if the Florida schools insist on introducing it into the schools her tax dollars were going to be wasted in a losing legal battle.
I did point out to her that my religion professor at Baylor told us the Genesis story was one culture’s creation myth and not to be taken literally, and that evolution was a fact.
sigh.
Is it small wonder Chick always presents the deity as some sort of faceless blockhead?!
not a bit. projection being the only way creobots are able to communicate.
Smeg with Jack Chick! You want real psychological child abuse? Check Children’s Literature of the 1850’s.
Remember what “Li’l Suzy” said about Hell in the Chick tract? Well, there’s no evolution here, but they sure do go into a lot of detail about hell.
In 1855, the following booklet was published for presentation to children at Catholic churches in Ireland and England. As you’ll see, it had the support and approval of the Catholic Church, which saw nothing wrong with what it said or how it was presented. For more information on the author, John W. Furniss, click here.
We didn’t come from monkeys, and we didn’t rise to prosperity by thinking no more than monkeys think, either.
For those interested, here is a
critical analysis of that tract.
Damn straight, Ed. We DID NOT come from monkeys. We came from apes.
If any wants to see how low a Jack Chick tract can get, read “Lisa”. Most of Jack Chick tracts are worth a good laugh, because they are so blatantly homophobic, anti-catholic, racist or just out in lala land. This one is scary enough not to be funny on any level.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a7/Ockham/lisa1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a7/Ockham/lisa2.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a7/Ockham/lisa3.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a7/Ockham/lisa4.jpg
There really should be a “battered person syndrome” for xians, some formal psychological classification for this dysfunction…
A support group for people with abusive gods? Threats of Hell are threats of torture, and threats of torture are a form of terrorism. (And that much is true even if the actual torture is never carried out.)
I have long thought that if Our Father who art in Heaven were our *real* father, he’d be in prison for child abuse faster than you could say “Sodom and Gomorrah”, and why anyone accepts such an abusive, controlling, terrorizing, torturing, smite-happy monster as their God is beyond me.
In a sense you could say that atheism is the only thing stopping me from becoming a Satanist – it’s clear that if the God of the Bible *did* exist, it would be the moral duty of any sentient being to oppose him by any means less vile than his own.
How utterly sickening.
If this does go to trial, could someone plead with Carl Hiassen to do commentary. I know his normal satrical beat is ecological degradation, but who else could better convey the full-on Florida nuttiness sure to be on display?
Hiaasen would be good, yeah.
http://www.chick.com/tractimages9772/1051/1051_16.gif
Does Lil’ Susy look a Lil’ Possessed in this frame to anyone else? The thought of some demonic creature speaking through a child about the glory of Jesus is satisfying and hilarious to me.
Heads up, folks. They seem to be having some influence…..
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/011708/met_237288652.shtml