A reader sent along an
an article from the Lancaster Sunday News, announcing a lecture on 17 May by John Morris, an infamously silly Young Earth Creationist. It’s a little peculiar; it’s written by Helen Colwell Adams, bylined as a staff writer for the paper, but it is completely credulous — she seems to have interviewed Morris and blindly written down everything he claimed, without so much as cocking an eyebrow and wondering if there were anything to these absurd claims. It’s a wonderful example of very bad journalism.
Morris also panders to his audience with talk about how the Pennsylvania coal fields were all laid down in one great flood. I don’t know what it is, but some people from that part of the state have the wackiest ideas about coal—witness Ed Conrad.
Note the strange beginning — that’s the way it was capitalized in the copy sent to me.
After the great flood Scientist will turn to Genesis to explain a younger Earth at conference here this month
IN THE BEGINNINGBy Helen Colwell Adams
Just how did Pennsylvania’s coal seams get to be the size they are?
Most schoolchildren would answer that the coal was formed from ancient peat swamps.Dr. John Morris suggests a different explanation.
He proposes the coal was formed from “forest and vegetation that was ripped up and deposited by the great flood on a huge scale.”
Noah’s flood, to be precise.
Morris, the president of the Institute for Creation Research, is one of the leading figures in the field of “young Earth creationism,” which holds that the biblical account in Genesis is scientifically accurate.
He’ll be discussing his convictions in Lancaster on May 17, when he keynotes the annual banquet of Associates for Biblical Research, a ministry based in Akron that focuses on the archaeological end of biblical history.
Morris, who has a doctorate in geological engineering, argues that geological evidence usually cited to support the position that the Earth is millions of years old can be explained better as the result of devastation caused by the worldwide flood recounted in Genesis.
“The Earth doesn’t look old,” he said. “It looks flooded.”
Journalists tend to lump young-Earth creationists like Morris with supporters of Intelligent Design, which posits that the universe was created but doesn’t specifically name a designer.
But that’s not accurate, Morris said, because creationists don’t shy away from naming the designer as the God of the Bible.
Besides, he added, all scientists, no matter their belief or unbelief, see order and design in nature.
“The issue is not whether there is design or not,” he said.
“It’s just the story we tell about it.”
The story, as far as Morris is concerned, can be found in the first 11 chapters of Genesis, which contain the accounts of God’s creation of “the heavens and the earth” and of Noah’s ark.
By biblical timelines, involving computation from the genealogies in Genesis, the Earth is only thousands of years old rather than millions.
“I am convinced that the biblical doctrine of a recent creation is accurate,” Morris said last week.
“… You’re not going to get rocks to tell you how old they are. A careful understanding of the rocks will be supportive of that very specific biblical doctrine.
“Rocks don’t talk.”
Morris, whose father, Dr. Henry Morris, was known as “the father of creation science,” is a former faculty member at the University of Oklahoma. He has led expeditions to Mount Ararat in Turkey in search of Noah’s ark.
He sees the Bible as compatible with science.
“The Bible doesn’t give us all the details,” Morris said, “so there’s a lot of room to fill in the blanks.”
One of the questions is whether geologic processes have always progressed at the same rate.
“At the rate present processes are operating,” Morris said, “it looks like things would take a long time to happen. The question is: Is the assumption that the rate hasn’t changed — is that accurate?”
Morris and other creationists point to the flood of Noah as the occurrence that dramatically changed the rate.
“It looks like something very dynamic has restructured the Earth on a global scale,” he said.
And in that case, “things that geologists are taught take millions of years can happen rapidly.”
Take Pennsylvania’s coalfields.
Morris disputes the conventional explanation that peat swamps under pressure resulted in coal formation.
Coal isn’t forming today, he noted. And some of Pennsylvania’s coal seams cover nearly the whole state.
“There’s no such thing as a peat swamp that’s even remotely that size. Something different was going on in the past.”
That something, Morris contends, was the Genesis flood.
“Both evolutionists and creationists see the coal. It’s just the story we tell about its origins” that differs.
Morris’ appearance in Lancaster came through his friendship with Dr. Bryant Wood, senior archaeologist of the nonprofit Associates for Biblical Research.
“Both of them are staunch defenders of scripture,” said ABR director Scott Lanser.
At the banquet, Morris said, he’ll discuss how “God told man to have dominion over the universe, to use it wisely and carefully for the good of mankind as well as God’s glory,” and how both the Santee, Calif.-based Institute for Creation Research and local ABR are doing that.
ICR doesn’t lobby the government, Morris said.
“Our whole focus is scientific research.” And “the scientific projects we’re doing all point to the necessity of a “creator.”
Morris takes issue with the Intelligent Design movement, though, because supporters “pull their punches” on the identity of the designer.
The difference between the two positions, he said: “Every creationist believes in Intelligent Design, but not all Intelligent Design advocates believe in creation.
“… We are not ashamed to identify the creator, the intelligence behind it all.”
But “even many who are Christians have just never heard a credible case for creation,” he said.
Partly, in his opinion, that’s because “some scientists have redefined science to be naturalism,” meaning that everything happens by natural processes and “there is no supernatural.”
He calls evolution “the origins myth of the naturalists,” arguing the fossil record fails to show how different species evolved from a common ancestor.
Instead, he noted, the fossils show no transitional forms, which is “supportive of what the Bible says.”
“Evolution is at least as religious as creation,” Morris said, “and creation is at least as scientific as evolution.”
Dr. John Morris is the keynote speaker at the annual banquet of Associates for Biblical Research, at 6:30 p.m. May 17 at Calvary Church, 1051 Landis Valley Road. Tickets are free, but pre-registration is necessary. Call ABR at (800) 430-0008 or e-mail [email protected]. ABR’s Web site is www.BibleArchaeology.org. The Institute for Creation Research is at www.icr.org.
Ms Adams, were you even awake when you wrote that?
“Ms Adams, were you even awake when you wrote that?”
I’ll take this one;
Ahem…
No.
Dover v. Reality 2
This time it’s Biblical!
When I first read this, I thought, “isn’t that moronic mook dead?”
And then I realized that this was Henry Morris’ son.
Ah, pretty sure Lancaster is out in the middle of Pennsylvania. I know over near the coast, Pennsylvania has always looked like a utopia to me. I think the western half is actually a wormhole leading to the Middle Ages.
There’s also no such thing as a forty foot tall carnivorous reptile. I guess that means there never were, huh?
ah, nearly spitting distance
Exactly. The “fossils” are just part of Satan’s hoax to trap the unwary, see?
And, of course, Earth is flat and the Sun revolves around it!
You know that’s got to be true, as opposed to Thor or Shiva or whatever, ’cause it’s writ about in the Bible!
Early Hebrews ripped off the flood myth from the earlier flood Sumerian stories. This earlier myth clearly states it was a local river flood, NOT worldwide. In this story, there also an gods wanting to kill mankind, the ark, the animals, etc., etc.
from Wikipedia;
“Tablet III of the Atrahasis Epic contains the flood story. This is the part that was adapted in the Epic of Gilgamesh, tablet XI. Tablet III of Atrahasis tells how the god Enki warns the hero Atrahasis (“Extremely Wise”) of Shuruppak, speaking through a reed wall (suggestive of an oracle) to dismantle his house (perhaps to provide a construction site) and build a boat to escape the flood planned by the god Enlil to destroy mankind. The boat is to have a roof “like Apsu” (a fresh water marsh next to the temple of Enki), upper and lower decks, and to be sealed with bitumen. Atrahasis boards the boat with his family and animals and seals the door. The storm and flood begin. Even the gods [priests?] are afraid. After seven days the flood ends and Atrahasis offers sacrifices to the gods. Enlil is furious with Enki for violating his oath. But Enki denies breaking his oath and argues: “I made sure life was preserved.” Enki and Enlil agree on other means for controlling the human population.
The Epic of Atrahasis provides additional information on the flood and flood hero that is omitted in Gilgamesh XI and other versions of the Ancient Near East flood myth. According to Atrahasis III ii.40-47 the flood hero was at a banquet when the storm and flood began: “He invited his people…to a banquet… He sent his family on board. They ate and they drank. But he (Atrahasis) was in and out. He could not sit, could not crouch, for his heart was broken and he was vomiting gall.”
Atrahasis tablet III iv.6-9 clearly identify the flood as a local river flood: “Like dragonflies they [dead bodies] have filled the river. Like a raft they have moved in to the edge [of the boat]. Like a raft they have moved in to the riverbank.”
I’m ashamed to say I grew up in Lancaster. The talk looks to be at a church in Akron, which is in Eastern Lancaster County, deep in the heart of Amish/Mennonite country.
The fact that they’re having an event like this is not at all surprising to me. The fact that they had an article in the Lancaster paper about it is a little surprising, but not much.
I currently live about 1.5 hrs from the venue. I would try to attend, but Thursday is my poker night. Yes, poker is more important than making a vain attempt at engaging young-earth creationists who wouldn’t listen to me anyway.
I’m ashamed to say I grew up in Lancaster. The talk looks to be at a church in Akron, which is in Eastern Lancaster County, deep in the heart of Amish/Mennonite country.
The fact that they’re having an event like this is not at all surprising to me. The fact that they had an article in the Lancaster paper about it is a little surprising, but not much.
I currently live about 1.5 hrs from the venue. I would try to attend, but Thursday is my poker night. Yes, poker is more important than making a vain attempt at engaging young-earth creationists who wouldn’t listen to me anyway.
Atrahasis is supposed to dismantle his house because if you take a house made out of reeds and covered with bitumen, and turn it upside down, you get a boat made of reeds and covered with bitumen.
What I read in the article is that the reporter gave Morris the rope, and let him hang himself with it. He sounds foolish and anyone with an open mind can see that.
Someone is getting ripped off here. Who are his benefactors? I could spend a whole lot of time doing research in Jamaica and give the same results.
“The issue is not whether there is design or not,” he said.
“It’s just the story we tell about it.”
Exactly. The point, though, is whether that story is fictional or not.
~Kelly~
The flood…..caused….coal….
No comment.
I know this is an idiotic question, but could someone inform me what the Young Earth theory is for where the water went after the flood? I am just completely at a loss on that one. If the entire Earth is covered in water… there’s just no where for it to go. Right?
I know they have bullshit-y “scientific” explanations for things, so can someone direct me to that rather large one? I’m pretty sure it would provide a nice late-afternoon amusement.
I’m going to go put a bag over my head now. My state has embarrassed me yet again…
“At the rate present processes are operating,” Morris said, “it looks like things would take a long time to happen. The question is: Is the assumption that the rate hasn’t changed — is that accurate?”
Maybe it would take, I don’t know, um, billions of years to get to the point we are at now?
Is he arguing for or against an old Earth? The only reason that they would ever have to happen more quickly is for everything to have started from scratch (in the way his mind has the idea of what a non-creationist thinks) only a few thousand years ago. I give up, give the guy a banana and see what he does with it.
I know this is an idiotic question, but could someone inform me what the Young Earth theory is for where the water went after the flood?
I think the dominant theory is that the oceans were shallower before the flood. After the flood, the oceans were dug deeper and all the water flowed into them; the excess dirt was piled elsewhere to form mountains. Sometimes the explanation involves an odd version of plate tectonics where the continents are zipping around at hundreds of miles an hour.
That’s not nearly as interesting as the theory about where the water came from to begin with. You’d think they could just say that it came from a collision from a giant ice meteor. But nooooo, they came up a complicated theory about a “vapor canopy” which defies all the laws of physics and as a side-effect increased the atmospheric pressure and made it possible for people to live for centuries.
Maybe the Lancaster Sunday News should tap this group for a replacement for their weekly science columnist.
Huh. I always figured the “where the water came from” theory was just “God made more.” =)
#4: Ah, pretty sure Lancaster is out in the middle of Pennsylvania.
Lancaster city is about 60 miles west of Philadelphia. Lancaster County and York County (home of Dover), are separated by the Susquehanna River.
#9: I’m ashamed to say I grew up in Lancaster.
I also grew up in Lancaster, in the city. The state representative for the city is Mike Sturla, who is also a member of the education subcommittee, and on the side of science. In 2005, the subcommittee held hearings on a bill that would allow local school boards to include intelligent design in science courses (see http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/comments/pennsylvanians_a_call_to_arms/ and http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/comments/pennsylvanians_a_call_to_arms/#c21224; the bill never got anywhere). Michael Behe testified. From http://www.political-news.org/breaking/12289/house-debate-over-evolution-at-pa-schools.html:
#12: What I read in the article is that the reporter gave Morris the rope, and let him hang himself with it.
Alas, much as I want to defend Lancaster, this would not be my interpretation.
“There’s no such thing as a peat swamp that’s even remotely that size. Something different was going on in the past.”
The man is a prize grade idiot. The Siberian peat bogs cover an area more than double the size of Pennsylvania.
That article could simply be printed, or slightly rewritten from, a PR piece supplied by Morris. It has that appearance, but perhaps not.
I read the whole article.
Can I have my brain back please? It’s my second favorite organ*.
(* Joke stolen from a Mr. Woodrow Allen, NY)
…some of Pennsylvania’s coal seams cover nearly the whole state. “There’s no such thing as a peat swamp that’s even remotely that size.”
Hmm, what about the teeny tiny blue spots on this map?
http://www.nwri.ca/threats2full/images/ch13-map.gif
That’s plain old stinky, lazy journalism. She got a press release and rewrote it; or at the best made a phone call and interviewed the guy.
She didn’t do any research, didn’t get an opposing (read: mainsteam, sane) quote, didn’t put what he’s saying into any context other than what he supplies himself – “We’re more biblical than the intelligent design crowd,” – yeah, who cares?
I don’t know for sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the reporter is an intern, newbie or community amateur who gets paid little or nothing to basically rewrite press releases. It is almost certainly not the product of a professional journalist or someone with even the least amount of training.
The only hope for improvement is if the paper gets innundated with letters to the editor protesting the shoddy character of the article. A bunch of indignant letters, and maybe a cancelled subscription, or better yet a cancelled ad from a local business, could do a lot of good.
That’s what makes him so good at making claims acceptable to ignorant and stupid people. Smart people just create dissonance with their explanations that people don’t quite get – this guy create dissonance and channels it into insane but appealing ‘arguments’.
one of the leading figures in the field of “young Earth creationism,”
Isn’t that the definition of crank? That’s like saying, “one of the leading figures in the field of Moon Cheese”
As a current resident of Lancaster I would like to smear and defend my beloved city a little more.
While Lancaster is not far from Philadelphia, it is not out in what is sometimes referred to as “Pennsyltucky” (my apologies to all rational Kentucky residents). Lancaster tends to be quite conservative. While we have been trending a little bluer of late (a dem for a mayor and Mr. Sturla as a rep) that’s recent. Bear in mind, one of the biggest attractions here in the heart of “PA Dutch Country” is the “Sight and Sound Theater” a theater soley dedicated to putting on biblical extravaganzas that would shame Bob Schuller. Churches load buses up by the hundred to see their productions. If I am not mistaken the current production is, get ready for it, “In The Beginning” a Genesis tale (the sub heading is mine).
Add in that the LIJ may be one of the worst papers in just about every respect and even at that, they’re playing to a shrinking, older and very conservative audience and you have what you have before you. Straight reporting.
Yikes.
Lancaster is a beautiful city however with a strong, growing art scene, one of the “baby ivies” (Franklin & Marshall College), the oldest running farmer’s market in the US and a very reasonable cost of living.
If I can do a little bit of OT whoring, I’m the official photographer for the city and my galleries of work for the city can be found here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/frostimaging/collections/72157600014344125/
As bad as this lecture may look, keep in mind which way the Dover decision went and that we’re slowly coming into the 19th century here in PA.
Hell. If the stupidity keeps going east, I may end up living in the Atlantic.
Yet another ex-Lancastrian here, its crap like this that encouraged us to move 500 miles away last year!
The county has this nastly little habit of blending politics and religion. The letters to the editor in the Sunday paper are always good for a good laugh (or a good cry depending on how you look at it.)
Just up the road a piece, near Shamokin (“smokin’ Shamokin), in an abandoned anthracite pit, is the famous whaleback. Obviously, in order for there to be a whale in Pennsylvania, there must have been a great flood. And then there are a few commercial caverns, several of which have formations known as “The Garden of the Gods,” so there’s proof of God. Pennsylvania also has the Shoe House, shoo fly pie, Roadside America, ringing rocks, and Hershey Park. We no longer have Senator Santorum, but Bill “Deer -in-the-headlights” Buckingham is back.
Just up the road a piece, near Shamokin (“smokin’ Shamokin), in an abandoned anthracite pit, is the famous whaleback. Obviously, in order for there to be a whale in Pennsylvania, there must have been a great flood. And then there are a few commercial caverns, several of which have formations known as “The Garden of the Gods,” so there’s proof of God. Pennsylvania also has the Shoe House, shoo fly pie, Roadside America, ringing rocks, and Hershey Park. We no longer have Senator Santorum, but Bill “Deer -in-the-headlights” Buckingham is back.
Q: How many Lancaster natives does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Change??? Light Bulb???
I’ve lived in Lancaster Co. for the last 15 years, and James Carville has it about right when he says that in Pennsylvania one has Philadelphia in the east and Pittsburgh in the west and the rest is Alabama. It’s lousy with corrupt politicos and hard right christians including such notables as Steve Cornell http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/11/i_keep_being_told_what_i_belie.php whose church is just down the road and around the corner from where I live.
I read that article in the actual, physical newspaper and wondered aloud what PZ Myers would have to say about it should it come to his attention. I’m pleased. In the Intelligencer Journal’s defense, I should mention that they have a local columnist featured every week on the front page of the Sunday opinion section, Gil Smart http://local.lancasteronline.com/15/Gil%20Smart%2CSmart%20Remarks , who does an absolutely brilliant job of skewering and enraging the local fundies and Bushies. He’s very well worth the read, and one result is lots of those amusing and pathetic letters to the editor. On the other hand, they do have a number of marginally competent and probably christian staff writers, and once a month they print a column by the aforementioned Steve Cornell. Fair and balanced? Maybe. And will I be attending that talk/dinner, even though it’s donate what you will? Ummm . . . life’s too short.
Mark, if I believed in a benificent god, shoo-fly pie would be proof of Her existence. Yuengling Porter might reinforce that a bit too.
I’m glad to hear Roadside America’s still there.
Ron, born in Girardville, raised in Harrisburg, survived both
Shoo-Fly Pie…………………………1
Institute for Creation Research….1
Let’s call it a tie.
(Mom’s from Wyomissing).
I know you are not much on the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but here is another look and another creation story in a song.
Descartes he ain’t.
At least he said “evolutionists” instead of “Darwinists.”
It’s not much, but it’s a start.
hmmmm…Yuengling Porter as proof for the existence of god??? That’s probably the best arguement I’ve heard yet!!!
If the gods don’t make Yuengling Porter, they certainly drink it. Talk about sweet ambrosia!!
Oh my dog! Ron. G’ aardville! I just moved to Harrisburg from living in Schuylkill Ct for 13 years. While people here complain about the conservative, religious, Repugnicans, it’s like Metropolis compared to Pottsville (home of America’s oldest brewery). While I miss the smell of warm spent grain wafting across the city in the morning, I occasionally get a whiff of cocoa if I’m going east now. Not a bad exchange.
I have the greatest iron concretion given to me by a coal miner in Shenandoah. It looks like an alien head, complete with eye socket and brain stem. When I brought it to my office, a colleague wanted to “borrow” it to show someone (Ed Conrad). I said ‘no’ and hid it so he wouldn’t swipe it. It’s the top attraction in my office now. I have to put it on my blog to show everyone someday.
When I read this piece, I immediately thought “Pennsyltucky” too but someone beat me to it.
Last year, “creation physicist” Russell Humphreys gave a talk at Sandia National Labs, so the embarrassment of people from Lancaster is nothing compared to my embarrassment over the place where I work. See this from New Mexicans for Science and Reason.
I can’t figure out if it is more insane that this idiot is spouting his pseudoscience in a science/engineering lab, or that he was preaching the bible in a government-owned auditorium, or that he was selling his book there.
Bernarda (#37) – LOL! My brother is gonna LOVE this. ;-)
ryan: The bible mentions that the flood was in part produced by something called “the fountains of the deep”, which are supposed to be fissures and cracks in the earth. The weird answer to your claim is that the extra water ran back into there. (I guess you can start laughing aloud now.) Also, there’s the claim that the mountains got uplifted during the flood, so less water was needed.
Morris … is a former faculty member at the University of Oklahoma.
Holy shit! A Sooner??
I’m not surprised that Vic Hutchison, Frank Sonleitner, Ola Fincke, and other OU Zoology faculty never mention that!
http://www.biosurvey.ou.edu/oese/
See what Okies are doing to combat cretinism.
— CV (Norman resident for 3 short years)
Apparently a major court case isn’t enough to get the message through. If I were ridiculously wealthy, I’d love to send a copy of Francisco Ayala’s recent little book (which I just finished reading – highlights on my blog at http://blue.butler.edu/~jfmcgrat/blog/) to anyone whose address I can get that makes a public statement from the standpoint of creationist pseudo-science. But they wouldn’t read it even if I did. I was away at a faculty workshop for a few days, and we read an article about science pedagogy that presented data indicating that prior assumptions actually allow our minds to filter out and ignore or not even register new information that conflicts with our assumptions. How can the truth win under these circumstances?