Comments

  1. says

    When asked where he lived, Kent Hovind replied, “I live in the church of Jesus Christ, which is located all over the world. I have no residence.”

    Oh. Their. God.

  2. Russell says

    There are many and diverse ways to be a kook. It’s a bit puzzling that those who are so accomplished in one seem quick to acquire some of the others.

  5. says

    Numerous Web sites and blogs about Kent Hovind have been filled with comments during the past few days about the case. Many of the blog comments are sarcastic references to Hovind’s failure to “render unto Caesar.”

    I have only found one blog posting that it is willing to give the Doctor a chance. However, I not found one comment that says that Hovind is innocent or does not make fun of him.

  9. jpf says

    I only glanced at it, but this person claims to be “a citizen of heaven.” … Is there some wacky legal advice newsletter that only religious nuts subscribe to?

    Yes, there is.

    It is published by Heaven’s embassy on earth, which issues passports and vehicle licenses for citizens of Heaven. (I tried linking directly to the pages for those things, but Pharyngula complains that it’s spam, so just search for yourself)

    Apparently Hovind’s former(?) lawyer Glen Stoll is connected with these people.

  10. Steve_C says

    If you’re a citizen of Heaven… are you dead already?

    I mean besides being brain dead.

  11. DanC says

    For years, he has claimed that he is employed by God and has no income or property because everything he owns belongs to God.

    Fine Mr Hovind, then I’m sure you won’t mind when His repo men come to take back His house and His cash.

  12. BMurray says

    His defense seems to be philosophically identical to Saddam Hussein’s (I don’t recognize the validity of this court) though less credible.

  13. says

    This is always nice:

    An intelligence report from the Southern Poverty Law Center, a Birmingham, Ala.-based civil liberties organization that tracks hate crimes, quotes Hovind as saying that environmentalism and income taxes are “evil and contrary to God’s law.” The report also states that Hovind sells anti-Semitic books.

  14. The Science Pundit says

    “http://youtube.com/watch?v=eL-cORRZdng&search=Hovind
    the Shermer vs. Hovind debate
    Posted by: Steve_C | July 18, 2006 03:04 PM”

    the Ali G vs. Hovind debate

  18. jpf says

    If somebody claims to be a “citizen of heaven” can they be deported?

    I believe the ecclesiastical term is “raptured”.

  19. KeithB says

    “I believe the ecclesiastical term is “raptured”.”

    I believe the correct term is martyred.

  21. says

    Yes, he’s most definitely a kook. Most Christians have enough sense to “render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s.”

  23. says

    Hey, as soon as his “boss” files a return and pays the tax; refund Hovind’s money. Until then, he’s on the nut for it.

  24. jpf says

    Speaking of martyrs, this article on the Embassy of Heaven site might offer some insight on the sort of legal advice Hovind is following: Judge Didn’t Want Martyr on Hands

    Michael Peter Stevens, an “ambassador” of the Embassy of Heaven, was pulled over (along with Glen Stoll, Hovind’s onetime(?) lawyer) near Fort Lewis, WA for having Heaven license plates on his “Heaven vehicle” (what we secularists uncoothly call a “car”).

    Long story short, he repeatedly refused to acknowledge the court’s authority, resulting in him being put in jail for 29 days, but eventually the judge let him go supposedly saying “We do not need any martyrs over these charges”.

    Stevens:

    I learned that they try to trick you into signing their forms – waivers, data sheets, indigent reports, release agreements, health questionnaires, etc. Remember, you have to believe in their system to pick up their documents – so just push their documents away. Don’t acknowledge them. They will also attempt to persuade you to build a defense. But if you do, then they gain jurisdiction because you are participating with them. Just stay close to the Lord and He will direct you. Count the cost. Whatever you decide to do from the beginning, continue until the end, even if it means death. I was sorely tempted, but Glory to God, He saw me through.

    “Suborned of false muster” sounds like the sort of “I’m playing by a different set of rules” answer that these guys of preaching.

    I especially like his “Jail Preparedness Check List” item #4 “Find someone who is willing to retrieve the Heaven vehicle if it is towed.” The combination of Miraculous and Mundane is sublime.

  25. quork says

    Yes, he’s most definitely a kook. Most Christians have enough sense to “render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s.”

    Jason, this is not like you. You must rush to his defense, after all he is a fellow Christian, even if he is a kook. Then you must accuse PZ of ‘painting with a broad brush’. It doesn’t particularly mean anything, but it’s become your signature, so we have come to expect it of you.

  28. PaulC says

    Heaven vehicle? Is it powered by angel farts? (This is what popped into my mind when I read that; I’m not normally scatologically inclined, but somehow it fits). If you have an ordinary, obviously earthly automobile, powered by fossil fuel, what would possess you to call it a “heaven” anything?

  29. jpf says

    It never states that he surrendered a US passport, it might have been his Heaven passport (which the Embassy sells).

  30. PaulC says

    Just wanted to note that the “citizen of heaven” I mentioned is not Hovind but one Michael Didier. This is from Washington State, so I assume there is some connection. He also pleads “subornation of false muster”:

    https://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/?fa=opinions.opindisp&docid=333767MAJ

    Mr. Didier considers himself a ‘citizen of heaven’ rather than a U.S.
    citizen and works with Remedies at Law, 3 Report of Proceedings (RP) (May
    19, 2005) at 381, which he describes as an ‘ecclesiastical law firm’
    staffed by non-bar members. 3 RP at 380. Mr. Didier’s wife, Judith
    Didier, petitioned for legal separation. On December 29, 2004, a Pierce
    County Superior Court Commissioner Pro Tempore granted a temporary order
    that, inter alia, ordered Mr. Didier to vacate the family home at noon on
    January 2, 2005, and restrained both parties from ‘molesting or disturbing
    the peace’ of the other or from ‘entering the home’ of the other. Ex. 1.
    Mr. Didier attended the hearing without a lawyer, challenging the
    jurisdiction of the court and filing a pleading1 based on his understanding
    of religious and constitutional law that asserted claims against those that
    he saw as interfering in his family and marriage. Mr. Didier was present
    when the commissioner announced and signed the temporary order; Ms.
    Didier’s lawyer also served him with a copy that same day.

    …

    1 Mr. Didier titled this document ‘ABATEMENT/COUNTER-CLAIM’ and within it
    attempted to enter a plea of ‘Subornation of False Muster.’ Clerk’s Papers
    (CP) at 19.

  31. Alex says

    If this guy was spouting off about anything other than his religion they’d have him on some serious meds by now with bi-weekly visits with the “focus” group. It’s sad we draw the line at religion. The claims are just as outrageous as any a nutcase could make.

  32. jpf says

    They have a book called Heaven Vehicle Code (I’d link but Pharyngula’s spam cop keeps wagging it’s finger at me — just google for “site:embassyofheaven.com heaven-vehicle” and click the first link) which is a guidebook for Heaven Vehicle operation and ownership. Some choice nuggets:

    Granting of privilege. All residents of Heaven are granted by Almighty God the privilege of driving upon the highways to preach the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, whether or not documents are issued.

    Maintain vehicle. Keep vehicle in good working condition (1 Corinthians 14:40) [The Bible foresaw the need for automotive maintenance!]

    Follow local driving customs. Comply with local ordinances governing the flow of traffic if ordinances are of the Lord. (1 Peter 2:13) [So if a road sign advises you to engage in sodomy, ignore it?]

  33. jpf says

    Embassy of Heaven is based out of Oregon, and that Stevens thing I linked to took place in Washington too. Maybe the Northwest’s high “No Religion” numbers are being influenced by these citizens of Heaven. One page on their site makes a big deal about how Jesus didn’t bring them a religion, he brought them a nation.

  34. Steve_C says

    I think the best way for them to return to their homeland is to drive off a cliff.

  36. Grumpy says

    From the article:
    He posted a “special notice to local, state and federal government agents, employees and inspectors” saying they could not come on his property…

    Would that be the property he claims he doesn’t own because it really belongs to God??

    And from the intelligence report by the SPLC:
    “Hovind is notable for his wide reception and for his promulgating of conspiracy theories favored by the antigovernment ‘Patriot’ movement.”

    Yeah, but he also preaches creationist nonsense to gullible audiences in churches all across this great land. Which is the greater threat?

  37. CROrr says

    Somehow I suspect that when he solicits contributions, he does not tell the contributor to make the check out to “God”.

  38. jpf says

    I think the best way for them to return to their homeland is to drive off a cliff.

    But their Heaven Vehicles have little wings, so that’s no good.

    I should have also pointed out that according to the Heaven Vehicle Code (soon to be a major motion picture), all Heaven Vehicles are signed over as Church property (HVC 4.1(a)).

    I didn’t see anything about Heaven Guns on the site, but that might explain Hovind’s claim that his belong to the Church.

  39. Abulafia says

    Here’s an irony alert for you. Doesn’t “Doc” Hovind always complain about the fact that US public schools shouldn’t teach evolution because they are doing so with “his tax dollars?” Hmmm….

  42. meridian says

    … granted by Almighty God the privilege of driving upon the highways to preach the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, whether or not documents are issued

    Would those be documents as in “driver’s license,” “auto inspection,” and “registration”?

    Terrific. “God authorized me to drive a machine that can kill people.”

    Do they own unlicensed firearms as well?

  43. says

    To attack voodoo followers is just racist.

    Harvard ethnobotanist Dr. Wade Davis has proven the efficacy of voodoo in his book “The Rainbow and the Snake.”

    It was made into a cheesy movie but that’s not his fault.

    Again this “award winning” blog continues to prompt close-minded and, to be honest, unscientific responses from it’s followers.

    Here’s a Mayo Clinic endorsement for a qigong master who lives in Minnesota.

    I encourage Professor PZ Myers to take one of qigong master Chunyi Lin’s classes or possible just get a phone healing and report any “experiences” Professor Myers has.

    http://springforestqigong.com

    Mayo Clinic doctor says Qigong adds to patient’s quality of life

    by Neil Kay, M.D.

    Qigong adds significantly to the quality of life of our cancer patients.

    Chunyi Lin is unique in the application of Qigong, because of his development of his own style of Qigong. This is a much simpler and yet easily applied alternative medicine for cancer patients. Since many of these patients have both motor and sensory disabilities, his approach, which is easy to learn, but still potent in its development of energies and healing properties, provide a very unusual and unique opportunity.

    Neil Kay, M.D.
    Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota, Department of Medicine, Division of Hemoglobinopathy. Former Medical Director of the David Hickok Memorial Cancer Research Laboratory, Virginia Piper Cancer Institute, Minneapolis, Minnesota

  45. Paul says

    You don’t have to believe in systems like the Justice, Taxation or Legislative system. They only have to believe in you.

  46. goddogtired says

    Drew MUST be a plant, in both senses of the word! I find animist religions fascinating on many levels and I do both Tai Chi and Aikido (and accept the notion of ki energy – in a fashion), but his sort of gaga-ism neo-political correctness makes him sound like a New Age version of “not even a troll, only an a-hole” Jason.

  47. Carlie says

    Drew – it’s called the placebo effect. Well known, well studied, quite interesting in and of itself, and the subject of much testing. It has nothing to do with whichever brand of woowoo is being used at the time. Placebo, placebo, placebo.

  48. PaulC says

    Drew’s writing reminds me of the stream of consciousness text appended to spam email–I guess in an attempt to evade simple filters based on text matching. It’s true that he has not offered to sell me any VjIAGRA, VALjIUM, CIjALIS, or AMBjIEN. Maybe one of the spammer’s bots has escaped its masters and is running loose on the Internet.

  49. says

    OK this is just getting boring. I’m sitting here at the engineering library at the U of Minnesota — Twin Cities. Walter Library.

    Not exactly a bastion of New Age wing-nuts.

    So I go on I.S.I. web of science citation index.

    Any of you use it? Apparently not.

    I hope Professor Myers does.

    Anyway so — just to be the balanced researcher that I am — I do a general search on “qigong and placebo”

    Up pops 12 recent peer-reviewed academic journal studies ALL confirming that qigong has STRONGER effects than placebos.

    Sorry but you’re just plain out wrong.

    Here’s just one example:

    Title: Effects of Qi-therapy (external Qigong) on cardiac autonomic tone: A randomized placebo controlled study
    Author(s): Lee MS, Kim MK, Lee YH
    Source: INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF NEUROSCIENCE 115 (9): 1345-1350 SEP 2005
    Document Type: Article
    Language: English
    Cited References: 9 Times Cited: 0
    Abstract: Heart-rate variability (HRV) was compared in 40 subjects receiving external Qi-therapy (QT) or placebo control therapy, in a randomized placebo controlled design experiment, There were significant time, and group x lime interactions suggest that QT reduced the HR and increased HRV as indicated by a reduced LF/HF power ratio of HRV. These findings suggest that QT stabilizes the sympathovagal function more than placebo therapy.
    Author Keywords: heart-rate variability; Qigong; Qi-therapy
    KeyWords Plus: EFFICACY
    Addresses: Lee MS (reprint author), Wonkwang Univ, Inst Med Sci, Ctr Integrat Med, Iksan, South Korea
    Wonkwang Univ, Inst Med Sci, Ctr Integrat Med, Iksan, South Korea
    Kusan Natl Univ, Grad Sch, Dept Phys Educ & Tricol, Kusan, South Korea
    Yonsei Univ, Inst Med Engn, Wonju, South Korea

  50. says

    Here’s a more “dated” study:

    Title: Psychoneuroimmunological effects of Qi-therapy: preliminary study on the changes of level of anxiety, mood, cortisol and melatonin and cellular function of neutrophil and natural killer cells
    Author(s): Lee MS, Huh HJ, Hong SS, Jang HS, Ryu H, Lee HS, Chung HT
    Source: STRESS AND HEALTH 17 (1): 17-24 JAN 2001
    Document Type: Article
    Language: English
    Cited References: 37 Times Cited: 26
    Abstract: This preliminary study investigated the psychoneuroimmunological effects of Korean Qi-therapy (QT) on randomly divided placebo group (N = 10) and QT group (N = 10) via measuring the level of anxiety, mood, cortisol and melatonin, and the cellular function of neutrophil and NK cells. Although she basal levels of anxiety and mood were not different between the two groups, there were significant differences in group by time interaction in the anxiety level (5 min after intervention, Post I: changed by -23 per cent in QT group and -10 per cent in placebo; 1 hour after, Post II: -23 per cent, -8 per cent) and mood score (Post I: -34 per cent, -14 per cent; Post II: -55 per cent, -21 per cent). Melatonin levels also changed differently by intervention. In response to QT, melatonin levels increased after treatment but decreased in the control. For neutrophil response to intervention, superoxide generation was increased by QT but decreased by placebo (group by time interaction, p < 0.0001; changed by 36 per cent in the QT group and 8 per cent in the placebo group). There was a significant change in NK cell cytotoxicity in the QT group. The cytotoxicity increased (27 per cent compared to baseline) in the QT group but there were no changes in the placebo group (7 per cent). Our current observations suggest that Korean Qi-therapy may induce psychological stabilization, increase melatonin level and enhance cellular function of neutrophil and NK cell. Therefore Qi-therapy may be an effective complementary method for human health care and in the prevention of disease. Copyright <(c)> 2001 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
    Author Keywords: Qi-therapy; emitted Qi; anxiety; cortisol; melatonin; neutrophil function; NK cell cytotoxicity
    KeyWords Plus: IMMUNE FUNCTION; CYTO-TOXICITY; TAI CHI; MEDITATION; STRESS; QIGONG; NORADRENALINE; LYMPHOCYTES; CAPACITY; DISEASE
    Addresses: Chung HT (reprint author), Wonkwang Univ, Sch Med, Dept Microbiol & Immunol, Iksan, 570749 South Korea
    Wonkwang Univ, Sch Med, Dept Microbiol & Immunol, Iksan, 570749 South Korea
    Wonkwang Univ, Inst Biotechnol, Dept Qi Med, Iksan, 570749 South Korea
    Wonkwang Hlth Sci Coll, Dept Nursing, Iksan, 570750 South Korea
    Wonkwang Univ, Coll Oriental Med, Dept Physiol, Iksan, 570749 South Korea
    Publisher: JOHN WILEY & SONS INC, 605 THIRD AVE, NEW YORK, NY 10158-0012 USA
    Subject Category: PSYCHIATRY; PSYCHOLOGY
    IDS Number: 425ET

    ISSN: 1532-3005

  51. says

    Just tell me when you want this to stop:

    Title: Effects of external Qi-therapy on emotions, electroencephalograms, and plasma cortisol
    Author(s): Lee MS, Rim YH, Kang CW
    Source: INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF NEUROSCIENCE 114 (11): 1493-1502 NOV 2004
    Document Type: Article
    Language: English
    Cited References: 11 Times Cited: 2
    Abstract: The authors investigated the effect of external Qi-therapy (EQT) on changes in encephalograms (EEGs) and circulating cortisol concentrations. Ten college students participated in crossover sessions, receiving EQT or placebo treatment with their eyes open. Subjects reported improved emotions of satisfaction, relaxation, and calmness during EQT as compared to levels reported during placebo treatments. There were significant differences in the proportions of alpha and beta EEG waves between the two sessions, and the relative strengths of alpha waves were higher during EQT than during control sessions (p <.05). Plasma cortisol concentrations during EQT were significantly lower than during control sessions p <.05). Thus, Qi-therapy was more effective in inducing relaxation than placebo treatment. Author Keywords: alpha wave; cortisol; EEG; emotion; Qigong relaxation KeyWords Plus: QIGONG; EEG; MEDITATION; ANXIETY; STATE Addresses: Lee MS (reprint author), Wongwang Univ, Inst Med Sci, Ctr Integrat Med, Iksan, 570749 South Korea Wongwang Univ, Inst Med Sci, Ctr Integrat Med, Iksan, 570749 South Korea Semyung Univ, Sch Liberal Arts, Chechon, Chungbuk South Korea Chonbuk Natl Univ, Coll Vet Med, Dept Physiol, Chonju, South Korea

  52. says

    Title: Effects of Qi-training on anxiety and plasma concentrations of cortisol, ACTH, and aldosterone: a randomized placebo-controlled pilot study
    Author(s): Lee MS, Kang CW, Lim HJ, Lee MS
    Source: STRESS AND HEALTH 20 (5): 243-248 DEC 2004
    Document Type: Article
    Language: English
    Cited References: 22 Times Cited: 0
    Abstract: The effects of Qi-training on anxiety, and plasma concentrations of adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), cortisol, and aldosterone in healthy young men was investigated. Thirty-two subjects were randomly assigned to a sham control group or a Qi-training group. Although the basal level of anxiety did not differ between the groups, there was a significant group by time interaction of the 1-hour intervention; anxiety decreased by 26 per cent in the Qi-training group and by 9 per cent in the control group. After Qi-training, the plasma concentrations of ACTH, cortisol, and aldosterone decreased, but these levels did not change in the control group. These findings suggest that Qi-training improves anxiety and has a significant effect on the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. Copyright (C) 2004 John Wiley Sons, Ltd.
    Author Keywords: Qigong; Qi-training; anxiety; cortisol; ACTH; aldosterone
    KeyWords Plus: ALPHA-WAVE; HEART-RATE; TAI CHI; QIGONG; EFFICACY; STRESS; BLOOD
    Addresses: Lee MS (reprint author), Wonkwang Univ, Sch Med, Inst Med Sci, Ctr Integrat Med, Shinyong Dong 344-2, Iksan, 570749 South Korea
    Wonkwang Univ, Sch Med, Inst Med Sci, Ctr Integrat Med, Iksan, 570749 South Korea
    Wonkwang Univ, Profess Grad Sch Oriental Med, Iksan, South Korea
    Chonbuk Natl Univ, Coll Vet Med, Dept Physiol, Chonju, South Korea
    Chodang Univ, Dept Nursing, Muan, South Korea
    Mokpo Catholic Univ, Dept Nursing, Mokpo, South Korea
    E-mail Addresses: [email protected], [email protected]

  53. says

    Title: Effects of Qigong on immune cells
    Author(s): Lee MS, Huh HJ, Jeong SM, Lee HS, Ryu H, Park JH, Chung HT, Woo WH
    Source: AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CHINESE MEDICINE 31 (2): 327-335 2003
    Document Type: Article
    Language: English
    Cited References: 25 Times Cited: 6
    Abstract: The aim of this study was to investigate the influence of two acute Qigong interventions (Qi-training and Qi-therapy) on immune cells. The Qigong interventions were compared with placebo training and placebo therapy in which no attempt was made to gather or move Qi. Immune cell numbers were measured pre-intervention, immediately post-intervention and 1 or 2 hours post-intervention. White blood cells increased significantly 2 hours after actual Qi-training (p < 0.05) but not sham training compared with pre-intervention. There were significant increases in lymphocytes 2 hours after actual but not sham Qi-training (p < 0.05) and monocyte numbers were significantly increased immediately after both actual Qi-training (p < 0.01) and sham training (p < 0.05). NK cell numbers decreased significantly both immediately after Qi-training and after sham movements done without concomitant Qi-training (p < 0.01). There were no significant effects on neutrophils. Actual Qi-therapy but not sham therapy increased monocyte numbers immediately after Qi-therapy, and lymphocytes increased more after real than after sham therapy. Neutrophils were again little changed. The data indicate that a single Qigong intervention can increase the monocyte and lymphocyte numbers. Author Keywords: Qigong; Qi-training; Qi-therapy; immune cell KeyWords Plus: STRUCTURED PSYCHIATRIC INTERVENTION; ELDERLY SUBJECTS; CANCER-PATIENTS; GROWTH-HORMONE; QI-THERAPY; MEDITATION; TRAINEES; BLOOD; STATE; ANXIETY Addresses: Chung HT (reprint author), Wonkwang Univ, Sch Med, Dept Microbiol & Immunol, Inst Biotechnol,Dept Qi Med, Iksan, 570749 South Korea Wonkwang Univ, Sch Med, Dept Microbiol & Immunol, Inst Biotechnol,Dept Qi Med, Iksan, 570749 South Korea Wonkwang Univ, Prof Grad Sch Oriental Med, Iksan, 570749 South Korea Wonkwang Hlth Sci Coll, Dept Nursing, Iksan, 570750 South Korea Wonkwang Univ Hosp, Dept Emergency Med, Iksan, 570750 South Korea Publisher: WORLD SCIENTIFIC PUBL CO PTE LTD, JOURNAL DEPT PO BOX 128 FARRER ROAD, SINGAPORE 912805, SINGAPORE Subject Category: INTEGRATIVE & COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE; MEDICINE, GENERAL & INTERNAL IDS Number: 694QA ISSN: 0192-415X

  54. says

    OK it wasn’t 12 studies. It was 8 studies since 2001 confirming that qigong is MORE EFFECTIVE than placebos. With NO studies proving that qigong is less effective or equally effective as placebos.

    That’s the results of a general search in the top science database under “qigong and placebo”

    Hope you’re happy and remember I’m not one of those PAID bloggers — like the salaried sell-outs.

  55. says

    I’m glad I put down my drink before the page loaded. Nasal backwash would have ruined the flavor.

    Kilik, I mean drew, why don’t you try staying, you know, on topic?

  56. Gentlewoman says

    Wow. Now this is the sort of thing you hope to see on Court TV. I do not believe we will be granted this boon, however.

  57. Josh says

    Talk about taking the ball and running with it…

    I think drew and kent would get on well.

    Perhaps a joint Dino and Voodoo land theme park?

  58. dkew says

    From the newspapers:

    The IRS contends they withdrew $430,500 in cash from AmSouth Bank between July 20, 2001, and Aug. 9, 2002, with each of 44 withdrawals for $9,500 or $9,600, just below the $10,000 starting point for reporting cash transactions.

    Maybe the thread is already ruined by drew drivel, but can any lawyer or law enforcement types tell us why the Feds are indicting the Hovinds on such old transactions? Presumably they continued this crap until the arrests.

  59. Steve LaBonne says

    That’s not particuarly “old” by the standards of complicated financial investigations. Putting a courtroom-ready case together takes a lot of time. Also, try telling your friendly local IRS guy that stuff from 4 years ago is too old for him to be auditing you. ;)

  60. Millimeter Wave says

    very interesting, drew.

    I was wondering, though, exactly what “placebo voodoo” would look like. Do you have a reference for that? Maybe a picture?

    Incidentally, is there more than one “MS Lee”, “HT Chung” and “CW Kang” who just happen to work in the same field, or are all of these papers written by the same handful of people?

    oh well, back to the topic…

    when I read the article earlier, I was at work and had people leaning into my office and wondering what I was laughing about. I think it was the part where the reporters had to look up Hovind’s plea in a dictionary the pushed me over the edge ;-).

    For additional hilarity, you might want to read this:

    http://www.cseblogs.com/?p=28

    it really doesn’t seem to occur to him that his kooky legal theories might possibly be wrong…

  61. MartinDH says


    jpf sez:
    It never states that he surrendered a US passport, it might have been his Heaven passport (which the Embassy sells).

    I’d like to see him enter S.A. and Israel on a Heaven passport (see Hovind Itinerary: http://www.drdino.com/itinerary.php ) and then reenter the US without a US passport or some kind of visa. He’d be stuck in some sort of airport limbo…just like Tom Hank’s character in the movie “The Terminal”!

  62. says

    I was wondering, though, exactly what “placebo voodoo” would look like. Do you have a reference for that? Maybe a picture?

    Hmm, the Haitian voodoo ceremony I attended seemed to be as much about drinking and dancing as about sacrificing the goat. Maybe “placebo voodoo” would entail sacrificing a Tofurky, non-alcoholic beer, and some spirited games of Dance Dance Revolution?

  63. says

    Jason, this is not like you. You must rush to his defense, after all he is a fellow Christian, even if he is a kook. Then you must accuse PZ of ‘painting with a broad brush’. It doesn’t particularly mean anything, but it’s become your signature, so we have come to expect it of you.

    But PZ is apparently learning from my observations. He kept his comments limited to Hovind. Why should I complain about PZ painting with a broad brush when he didn’t do it this time?

    See, your comment proves that it’s not what I say here that is getting under your skin. It’s who I am (i.e. a Christian). It doesn’t matter what I post – you’ll complain about it either way and call me a “troll” (which is what I’ve come to expect of those of you who aren’t using that code from the script kiddie to block my posts). I agree 100% with you and it just gets under your skin even more. Truly bigoted behavior.

  64. Graculus says

    Drew is a netkook. I’m not sure if he’s really Full Canvas Jacket material, unlike the inestimable/incomprehesible Gary Denke, but he’s definitely a netkook, not a plant or (technically) a troll.

    And when SPL says “anti-semitic books”, they mean stuff like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, not just Jack Chick.

  65. HCN says

    I could not sit through the entire Shermer/Hovind debate posted earlier. So I looked around YouTube and found a nice 10 minute summary of his arguments… enjoy:

  66. says

    See, your comment proves that it’s not what I say here that is getting under your skin. It’s who I am (i.e. a Christian).

    Jason, even Christians point and laugh at the assinine things you say; it’s like Christian big hair metal bands claiming people hate them because they’re Christian, when it’s simply that musically they suck ass through a straw.

    What has me splitting my sides at you is why you claim Dr. Dino is a kook. No, not because he’s a creationist trying to make a buck off the credulous promoting Christian Flintstonianism, but because he doesn’t know how to render unto Caeser.

    Obviously, only a kook would fail to turn the other cheek when Little Army Booties tells you it’s time to render unto Caeser.

    Um, not that there’s anything wrong with that…

  67. justanothercommenter says

    What Hovind did with all those transactions below ten thousand is called smurfing. It’s what money launders for drug gangs, terriosits, tax dodgers do to avoid attention to how much money is being transfered from as well as to whom.

    Any transaction over ten thousand is immediatly reported but nothing really happens to legit people. Drug dealers and other crocks however don’t want such reporting on their money trails.

  68. Azkyroth says

    See, your comment proves that it’s not what I say here that is getting under your skin. It’s who I am (i.e. a Christian). It doesn’t matter what I post – you’ll complain about it either way and call me a “troll” (which is what I’ve come to expect of those of you who aren’t using that code from the script kiddie to block my posts). I agree 100% with you and it just gets under your skin even more. Truly bigoted behavior.

    -Jason

    I am reasonably certain that the complaints are not that you are a Christian, unless you’re misusing that word to apply only to belligerant fundamentalists. The complaints I have heard have to do with the often arrogant and petulant demeanor of your posts, and with your habit of deploying poorly reasoned arguments to defend your points and dismiss rebuttals. That’s certainly been my complaint (along, I believe, with several longish rebuttals of mine, in other threads, that you have utterly failed to address…but that may be someone else I’m thinking of, so I’ll let it slide).

    Jason, this is not like you. You must rush to his defense, after all he is a fellow Christian, even if he is a kook. Then you must accuse PZ of ‘painting with a broad brush’. It doesn’t particularly mean anything, but it’s become your signature, so we have come to expect it of you.

    -quork

    However, the above was indeed uncalled for, since you had posted a comment that was not arrogant, petulant, belligerant, or poorly reasoned, and was in fact quite civil and reasonable. While I can certainly sympathize with the frustration quork and others have felt regarding many of your posts in the past, I felt this was petty and spiteful (in the same vein as “kicking someone when they’re down”), not to mention counterproductive, and had intended to address it. We should be willing to greet civility and sense in kind, even from those from whom we have come to expect the opposite.

  69. G. Tingey says

    What amuses me are the comments from various “true” christians/fundamentalists/YongEarth-cretinists etc…
    Saying this guy is nothing to do with us!
    Oh, really?

    Don’t beleive you ….

  70. says

    If they take away Hovind’s heaven passport, what happens when he gets shanked in the pen? Is he screwe…ok bad choice of words. Is he stuck …uh….nevermind.

    Drew’s Woo-Fu is strong. Beware.

  71. Chet says

    Drew without understanding what the “placebo treatment” actually is, your citations are all but useless. Wikipedia informs me that the techniques you refer to are “an aspect of Chinese medicine involving the coordination of different breathing patterns with various physical postures and motions of the body.” Now, I don’t know if that’s entirely accurate, or what, but I don’t know of any doctor who would deny that proper breathing, excercise, stress manegment, and improved posture and fitness would have positive effects on the body, particularly on anxiety levels and related stress hormones. I mean everybody knows that.

    The question is – do these papers substiantiate the putative “qi” mechanism? I don’t see that they do.

  73. PaulC says

    Jason, don’t flatter yourself. Your posts are a mild annoyance that don’t require blocking. And the fact that PZ didn’t generalize Hovind’s kookiness to all Christians doesn’t mean he “learned” from you. Hovind’s singular brand of religious lunacy stands on its own. It would spoil the humor to editorialize over it.

    Finally, your behavior doesn’t even rise to the level of a troll. All you do is repeat tired old conservative talking points in short comments. I wonder what you get out of reading this blog. It’s doubtful that you are very interested in the material here, and you don’t convince anyone.

  74. says

    Tax evader kooks like Hovind seem to think that the law works through a series of magic incantations, and that if they utter the right “deep magic” incantation, the courts will be unable to touch them.

    Many such people have spent time in jail, or had all of their assets seized…

  75. says

    Perhaps Hovind thinks he can apply the same critical analysis of evolution to the US legal system. (Hahahah.) If that’s so, maybe he does believe his own bullcrap and isn’t just a conman. If so, that’s interesting. I had pegged him as one of the pure con sorts.

  76. says

    Chet I got spam censored which is pretty fucking funny. So I’ll make this brief. Read Professor Harry M. Collin’s books — or his latest academic article “From Lead to Gold” — it’s about how “negative results” are only efficious for experiments based on technology whereas body-mind powers are based on logical inference.

  77. Steve_C says

    Hey Drew.

    Did you notice the unmarked van with tinted windows outside?

    I think it looks suspicious.

  78. PaulC says

    I can picture the headlines:

    Former ‘Dino Park’ Owner Throws Nation Into Constitutional Crisis
    Large Parts of US Law to be Rewritten in Light of Novel Legal Criticism
    Congress to be Disbanded
    Washington Monument to be Replaced with Space Elevator to Planet Heaven

  79. k says

    You know what would actually be awesome? If the court actually were to hold that Hovind WAS a citizen of heaven, and that “heaven” was a completely separate country encompassing all of Hovind’s land, Dino park included. Honestly, that would be great. To start with, I think there’s a serious risk of emigration from Heaven to the US, so all Heaven residents would have to get go through the paperwork to get a visa whenever they wanted to travel onto US land. Hovind also might want to think about getting his own police force/fire station, since the US no longer has responsibility for crimes and fires on Heaven. Hopefully the local utility companies wouldn’t want the international bother, so Hovind can set up his own utility companies as well for his land. All calls from Heaven to the US would be pricey international calls… and possibly best yet, we could make everyone go through customs to get to Dino Park and back!
    Can we somehow prevent Heaven from using US currency?

    Seriously, I think this is a golden opportunity…

  80. Chet says

    Read Professor Harry M. Collin’s books — or his latest academic article “From Lead to Gold” — it’s about how “negative results” are only efficious for experiments based on technology whereas body-mind powers are based on logical inference.

    If that’s actually what they say then I’m not going to bother; there’s no difference between “technology powers” and “mind-body powers.” They’re the same thing, so naturally, the experimental method for technology is equally appropriate for “mind-body powers.” Technology, after all, is nothing more than the extention of the mind and body.

    Actually – looking up Collin’s work I see that his books appear to be about absolutely nothing of the sort. I can’t say for his article, because I can’t find it on any academic search engine.

  81. speedwell says

    LOL K. And then they could declare Heaven a protected reservation under the administration of the United States Bureau of Heavenly Affairs. Of course, this just fits right in with the Republican party goals anyway, since they think they own God and all, eh?

  82. says

    Chet says…
    “Actually – looking up Collin’s work I see that his books appear to be about absolutely nothing of the sort.”

    Indeed. Actually I spent an hour or so looking up titles that Drew casts about like rice at a wedding. They seem to fall into two categories (well, maybe more than two, but two stood out)… woowoo stuff relating to some of the straight up metaphysical areas Drew has championed, and some pretty serious, and well reviewed works from a broad array of high tech areas, nanotechnology, global health issues and the like. The thing is, as I read the summaries of this latter block of really solid work, I could find little connection to Drew’s interpretations of their take home messages, other than occasional sharing of terminology. Actually, I kind of appreciate the reading suggestions, I found a couple that I will likely pick up and read! So thanks for that, Drew… I can’t say I follow much of what you have to say, but you do have a decent reading list… well, some of it..
    Uncle Don

  83. says

    Another top Technospiritual book — brought to you by Homeland Security and the Nanobiomotor dudes:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0131453076/qid=1153332552/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-3648942-4247245?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

    Chet and Uncle Don — I guess you just need to read my blog entries: http://drewhempel.gnn.tv

    See I do more than just compile books — I do original analysis. You can also read my masters thesis, freely readable online “epicenters of justice” (2000).

    Anyway I’ll give you more of my free online Crank advice.

    See body-mind paranormal power relies on resonance of SEXUAL ENERGY and therefore IS VERY RARE IN OUR POMO COMMODITY FETISH CULTURE.

    Think about it: 90% of modern human history is a hunter-gatherers. The oldest modern culture — the Koi-San — each time the men go hunting they spend 3 days and nights previous to the hunt without ANY contact with females.

    How often does that happen in modern culture? Then when they get back there is an all night trance dance around a fire.

    OK — take the next level — the Bantu-Koi culture, for example the Senufo — traditionally to be a man you have to spend 3 months straight in the forest without any contact with females.

    Get the message?

    Body-mind paranormal power is WAY different than technology.

    The black smith was the most powerful shaman of early city-state cultures BECAUSE only the black smith had NO contact with females.

    This is all from academic Ivy-league anthropology books that I source in my blog entries.

    Anyway the Power Axiom Set of the Pythagorean Theorem CLOSES OFF the complimentary opposite resonance into an equi-paritioned “containment” of power.

    This technology works but it is inherently destructive of left-hand directed carbon-based molecules evolved through an OPEN resonance of natural numbers.

    I could go on and on — as I’ve done elsewhere with others — but I’m sure most people would not want me to and as I said — I’m not a “salaried sell-out” paid to crank out tepid trivia blogs.

    drew hempel, MA

  84. Mechanophile says

    So… if I want to have loads of ‘body-mind paranormal power’, all I have to do is avoid women? And then I can be a super-powerful shaman? And all this time, I thought the lack of women was a *drawback* for engineering.

  85. BlueIndependent says

    QUOTE: “Fine Mr Hovind, then I’m sure you won’t mind when His repo men come to take back His house and His cash.”

    You sir have rightfully earned quote of the month in my book. HAHA!

  86. MikeM says

    Drew,

    So, making fun of Voodoo is racist, eh?

    No it’s not.

    I make fun of Christianity, too. And Islam. And Judaism. And Hinduism. And Buddhism. My wife claims to be Buddhist. Do you think I hate her race, too?

    If making fun of superstitions is racist, I guess I hate everyone. I know you’re new here, so I won’t take it too personally… Yet. But, yeah, I also make fun of Reiki and Acupuncture. I guess that means I should never go to Asia or associate with Asians.

    Um, okay.

    How about the deeply devout Christian good family friends we have from Ghana. Do I hate them, too?

    I think I’ve dropped enough hints here about how I feel about racism. If you wanna go for Round II, let me know when and where. I’ll get more explicit then.

    Thank you.

    (Killing goats while praying is still CRUEL.)

  87. Steve_C says

    Drew.

    I look at you and see this crazy colorful aura. It’s so wild. I feel completely connected to you man.

    Shit. Who’s knocking at the door?

  89. says

    Mechanophile — you need to read Professor David F. Noble’s expose book on science as Freemasonry:

    “World Without Women” — see Science came out the repression of women who previously shared monasteries with men (this all changed in the 9th Century under John Scotus Erigena and his NeoPlatonism).

    So the Women in Greece were confined to the houses. Result? Science.

    That’s why Technology is a type of Magic — it’s just “left-brain right-hand magic” instead of right-brain magic.

    So White Females like technofeminism (as do the growing global elite)

    But for the genocidal conditions of women peasants — now forced to compete with monocultural sweatshop industries — the loss of

    traditional complimentary opposite “magic” power is severe.

    So yes — not having women in science has been crucial to its success — starting with the blacksmith myth of Pythagoras as the foundation of science.

    I could get more into the esoteric details but they’re already in my blog: http://drewhempel.gnn.tv

    Now for racism and Voodoo in Haiti —

    WELL Here’s the Placebo:

    Try making Disney T-shirts for 14 cents an hour, 12 hours a day and see if that’s more effective that Voodoo in inducing an Altered State of Consciousness.

    Voodoo is NOT a MONOTHEISTIC IMPERIAL RELIGION: Christianity, Buddhism, Brahminism, Islam, etc. are.

    As I’ve stated Harvard trained Wade Davis done all the research on just how Voodoo works.

    So if you want to make fun of people living in the most oppressed country in the New World — just so you can have cheap products — go ahead.

    Be Racist.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0807842109/sr=1-3/qid=1153339312/ref=pd_bbs_3/002-4399617-5175234?ie=UTF8&s=books

  91. j says

    Sometimes people make me so mad that I wish I could just knock some sense into them.

    I am now taking deep breaths and trying to find inner peace.

  93. Chet says

    The black smith was the most powerful shaman of early city-state cultures BECAUSE only the black smith had NO contact with females.

    Ok, ignoring for the moment the fact that you’re clearly a sexist in addition to being a crank and an idiot, this is clearly nonsense. I mean I led a life of complete celibacy until I was 20, and never manifested any kind of powers. And believe me, I tried. So clearly “sexual energy” has nothing to do with it.

    Anyway the Power Axiom Set of the Pythagorean Theorem CLOSES OFF the complimentary opposite resonance into an equi-paritioned “containment” of power.

    Uh-huh. Sure it does.

  94. says

    You know what would actually be awesome? If the court actually were to hold that Hovind WAS a citizen of heaven, and that “heaven” was a completely separate country…

    Could we deport him? …With a cannon?

    Moving back to everyone’s favorite nonsensical troll of the hour…

    Voodoo is NOT a MONOTHEISTIC IMPERIAL RELIGION: Christianity, Buddhism, Brahminism, Islam, etc. are.

    Even if that were true… so what? It’s still silly. Just like the rest.

    So if you want to make fun of people living in the most oppressed country in the New World — just so you can have cheap products — go ahead.

    Be Racist.

    1. Please tell us how saying, “Voodoo is silly” leads to “Oppression is good.” Especially since I’m pretty sure we’re all against oppression. If you can’t come up with those steps, please apologize for lying and puting words in our mouths.

    2. I fail to see how race enters into it. I find it curious that you’re the one to keep bringing up race, as if it matters. Last time I checked, the human genome project showed that there’s no such thing as “race.”

  96. MikeM says

    Drew,

    I feel sorry for anyone who has to live in Haiti. It’s an ecological disaster that is no longer waiting to happen. Murdering goats en masse and praying at a waterfall will not help the situation. You merely end up with a bunch of dead goats.

    I hope Haiti can, against all odds, turn itself around. Unfortunately, I don’t hold out much hope for that.

    Voodoo will not turn that country around. Nor will any other religion. And since I’m the idiot that pointed out the story in the first place, this bugs me a lot. If you want to call me a racist because I pointed out this article, you better come up with some evidence that I’m a racist.

    I think Communion is a pretty darned pointless practice too. So do I also hate Italians?

  97. Azkyroth says

    Drew: There is so much nonsense in what you’ve posted that debunking it all is simply not feasible at this time. Suffice it to say that you seem to have forgotten where the burden of proof lies, and what constitutes acceptable scientific evidence. I suggest you review the scientific method and in particular the principle of parsimony, as well as (based on comments here and my own observations) more detailed study of what placebo treatment actually involves. Speaking as a father of a notably cognitively advanced daughter and a friend of many wonderful and intelligent women, I would very much like to hear the reasoning behind your conclusions about sexual energy and withdrawal from women being responsible for…anything, really. I know I’m certainly more productive when I’m getting laid regularly, and this is perfectly explicable in terms of the known effects of mood and emotional state on concentration, dilligence, and other elements of productivity. No mystical energy is required to sustain it.

    PS: see if you can figure out how to tap “sexual energy” for electrical power. If there was any truth in what you’re spewing, we could solve all future energy crises.

    PSS: please review the meaning of the term “energy” in a scientific context.

  98. says

    OK — PEOPLE — all you have to do is read my blog entries. The information is all provided for you but YOU CHOOSE TO REMAIN IGNORANT. http://drewhempel.gnn.tv

    But since I’m a nice crank (shrink for scientists — free online service available now!!) I’ll spell it out for you.

    The problem with the West is that it lost teachings of “natural resonance” to transmute electrochemical hormones into electromagnetic fields and finally into nonlocal consciousness that bends spacetime.

    There I said it. Can you handle that? No? Well read “Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality” (trans. by Charles Luk)

    That will give you all the details of “the small universe” practice which is the key secret.

    There are 12 nodal points along the outside of the central channels of the body — spine-heart. Dr. Albert-Fritz Popp recently confirmed this in his biophoton experiments.

    Just think of the body as a harmonic oscillator that transduces great heat (called N/um by the Koi San and Tumo by the Tibetans, etc.) into electromagnetic power (chi) and then into rainbow light (shen).

    OK I did the experiment to finish my graduate degree (2000) — the topic: Nonwestern nondual philosophy.

    Again the reason this “small universe” practice is unknown is because it depends on sublimating the Jing (electrochemical hormones) as a nonlinear asymmetrical harmonic oscillator.

    Please see my past rants for explanation of math and philosophy (haha).

    Basically you feed off your own secretions to enable parthenogenesis.

    OOOH — I said it! Taboo! Hey but real alchemy.

    Try reading John Bleitbreu’s great underground ethology classic “Parable of the Beast” (1968 or so) — lots of parthenogenesis stuff in there.

    Current version: Read biology professor Brian Goodwin — he figured this stuff out.

    Anyway Mircea Eliade mentions the “small universe” as an ancient practice in India — so it’s not just some Chinese thing.

    OK the reason it works, once again, is because it’s based on the philosophical assumption that there is no precise symbol for infinity (i.e. no square root of two as a logical axiom) and therefore asymmetrical nonlinear “evolution” can occur.

    Yes I can flex my pineal gland. Sorry but it’s true and it’s quite strange as well.

    I even emailed professor Nicholas Humphrey (the neuroscientist) because he claims in his book (an otherwise fun romp) that no one can flex their cerebral cortex).

    Just did it.

    Again — the only reason I had some success was because I did the experiment full-time (only working 10 hours a week) and had funding for a really strict diet (no salt, for example).

    I had a relatively quiet and roomy space which helps alot. Silence is golden.

    Yes your brain can create water through reverse electrolysis.

    Sorry but I did it — went 8 days with only a couple drops of water and not only that but only needed 5 hours of sleep with tons of extra energy (of course I had no food for these eight days).

    Then I healed my mom of a serious case of smoker’s legs — no more surgical stockings for her I tell you! No more need to sit down after an hour. No more need to keep her legs elevated all the time.

    Did she freak out that I hadn’t had any food for 8 days? Sure she did — worse than ever! But did I scarf down a bunch of food to make her happy? Sure I did.

    Did I heal her anyway? You betcha (Professor Myers can translate that one for you).

    She said it was “the difference between night and day.”

    This is all called a “bigu” state — energy feasting. I was never hungry the whole time.

    How? Because I practiced tai chi lots, then the small universe lots so that my endocrine glands all got real hot — kidneys, thyroid, then the pituitary gland and then the pineal gland!

    Yes I’m a freak but I was curious. I thought here’s the book: Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality.

    Did people have strange reactions around me without me communication any of this to them? yes. You see this practice creates strong electromagnetic fields that emanate from the center of the brain enabling telepathy and telekinesis.

    There I said it! Burn me at the stake! Through my in a lake while I’m tied to a huge rock!

    Here’s the principles — resonance of the Law of Pythagoras as infinite transduction. Read Dr. Peter Kingsley — http://peterkingsley.com

    Here’s the means: sublimating the electro-chemical hormones through innate harmonic nodes based on natural number geometry.

    And as far as the whole Voodoo thing — well it’s how Haiti is organized POLITICALLY so yes Voodoo WILL be the basis for any grassroots development in that country.

  99. Steve_C says

    “Did people have strange reactions around me without me communication any of this to them? yes. You see this practice creates strong electromagnetic fields that emanate from the center of the brain enabling telepathy and telekinesis.”

    or you just smell funny… and the mumbling creeps them out.

  100. Steviepinhead says

    Either drew is having one on.

    Or he’s smoked a wee bit tae much hempel in his “small universe.”

  104. Azkyroth says

    Drew: You do realize what you posted is complete gibberish, right? The fact that you’ve bought some garbled New Ageisms hook, line, and sinker doesn’t mean there’s any scientific validity to it. Nor does your supposed experience qualify as adequate supporting evidence, since:
    1) your writing suggests a tenuous grasp on reality
    2) it’s an uncontrolled experiment with no formal review of the conclusions
    3) the supposed principles behind it are gibberish
    4) people can force themselves to do surprising things with willpower–actually cutting through one’s own arm when trapped by a boulder, for example, or ignoring ultimately fatal bullet wounds long enough to do something that gets them a posthumous Medal of Honor (a la Roger Young…he did get the medal, didn’t he?). No supernatural or pseudoscience is involved in this.

    More seriously, you have yet to respond to the various charges of abject sexism leveled against you, and you have failed to provide a coherent explanation of the mechanism of this. Basically, your scholarship here is on a par with Rudolf Steiner.

    And by the way…

    There I said it! Burn me at the stake! Through my in a lake while I’m tied to a huge rock!

    -Drew

    Burn you at the stake?! The reception you’ve received barely qualifies as analogous to uproarous laughter and a few hurled tomatos, you big baby…

  105. says

    Sorry but cutting through your arm has not much to do with developing electromagnetic power out of the center of your brain.

    Remember my source is a traditional Taoist text — it’s not “new age.” The person who translated it was a monk in Taiwan.

    By the way in the 1950s the NY Times published an obituitary of a man from the mountains of China who died at 250 years of age!!

    The Chinese government had kept scrupulous records. How did the man do it? Qigong exercises and his business was collecting herbs — he never left the mountain and had very simple needs.

    The person I studied with Master Chunyi Lin went 28 days with no food nor water.

    That’s alot more than will power. Will power is “kidney energy” and it must resonate into electro-chemical power.

    The new “adrenal-hypothalamus-pituitary axis” drugs being developed by Professor Robert Sapolsky will try to take advantage of these dyanamics.

    http://springforestqigong.com for more details.

    Of course I could just start spamming qigong abstracts from ISI Web of Science citation index.

    Do you want me to? Do ya? haha

    Not now though the library is closing.

    In fact this whole blog is starting to bore me. People are quite nice and intelligent but a bit too mainstream for me.

    I’ve made my little soapbox pronouncements and Professor Myers and I have some understanding I’m sure — just cause he teaches at the U of Minnesota so he’s hip to some of the details I’ve raised: Cargill, Monsanto, Marc Rotenberg.

    All the best.

  107. Azkyroth says

    Sorry but cutting through your arm has not much to do with developing electromagnetic power out of the center of your brain.

    My point was that your experience, even if true, could be explained by willpower and expectancy effects on your subjective perception of your energy level and such, and that “developing electromagnetic power out of the center of your brain” as an explanation was unnecessary as well as problematic.

    Anyway, you should know that anecdotes like these do not qualify as scientific evidence. I’ll check a few of the debunking sites I know of, and see if I can find any of your examples on them…

  108. MJ Memphis says

    “By the way in the 1950s the NY Times published an obituitary of a man from the mountains of China who died at 250 years of age!! The Chinese government had kept scrupulous records. How did the man do it? Qigong exercises and his business was collecting herbs — he never left the mountain and had very simple needs.”

    Well, a 250 year old man dying in the 1950s would have been born in the early 1700s. In the intervening 250 years, China was largely colonized by the Western powers, went through the Opium Wars, endured the ruinous reign of Empress Cixi, had the Taiping Rebellion and Boxer Rebellion, collapsed into anarchy, and then was consolidated into a communist state. Yet they kept scrupulous tabs on some misanthrope in the mountains… yeah, I’m believing that.

    Incidentally, quite a few of the Chinese were convinced that their Special Eastern Meditative Techniques (TM) would allow them to do amazing things, like shrug off bullets fired from Western guns. It didn’t work too well.

  110. says

    Don Culberson: Actually Collins’ work falls into a third category, namely the slightly cranky end of the social studies of science, which is presumably why drew is referring to them. For example, I attended a talk of his where he claimed basically that there was equivocal results from the Michelson-Morley experiment for the next n (I forget the value of n) so there was hence more going on in physics than just the evidence and hence there was some mysterious social factor or authority source pushing relativity. I didn’t get to ask my question about how special relativity acts conciliatory with Maxwell’s equations, in particular the prediction of c being independent of the velocity of the source. He is also a guy who has claimed that “the natural world has a small or non-existent role in the construction of scientific knowledge”.

  111. says

    Keith-Yes, it would be difficult to squeeze the entire barrage of reading assignments we have been receiving into a nice, neat taxonomy.
    Uncle Don

  112. says

    Oh sure — once I announce I’m leaving then Professor Myers responds. That’s pathetic! Well chew on this oh solipsistic left-brain ideologues!

    Nonpharmacological treatment of back pain

    Editor, I refer to Professor Murtagh’s article on the nonpharmacological treatment of back pain (Aust Prescr 1994;17:33-6).

    In the relief of pain, including back pain, transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation (TENS) has a place, provided certain criteria are met. If correctly applied, a central effect does occur (with elevation of the pain threshold), thereby reducing pain and agitation, and minimising any associated narcotic withdrawal effects. The works of Professor J.S. Han have proven that TENS, if applied to certain specific points, e.g. the first interosseus motor point of the thumb, produces a rise in endorphins in both the spinal cord and brain with an elevation of cortisone levels in the blood stream.1 The work of Professor G. Ulett has proven that the effect is not caused by suggestion alone.2

    This response is determined not only by the correct placement of the conducting pads, but also by the frequency of the stimulation. Stimulation at two cycles per second (2 Hertz) releases the beta endorphins, 15 Hertz releases the metenkephalins and 100 Hertz releases the dynorphins.

    The use of these devices also has the advantage of economy and ease of use, even to the point of supervised selfuse.

    James J. Nichols
    Psychiatrist
    Belmont, N.S.W.

    R E F E R E N C E S
    1. Han JS, Sun LS. Differential release of enkephalin and dynorphin by low and high frequency acupuncture in the central nervous system. Acupuncture the Scientific International Journal 1990;1:19-27.

    2. Ulett GA. Beyond yin and yang; how acupuncture really works. St Louis, Missouri: Warren H. Green, 1992.

    Professor J.E. Murtagh, the author of the article, comments:
    TENS does have a place in the management of back pain. In 1975, a survey of major pain centres in the U.S.A. showed around 2000 patients with chronic pain of various aetiologies were being treated with TENS. Treating practitioners estimated about one third of these were achieving satisfactory pain control with TENS alone.1

    There have been many uncontrolled studies which show in a general way very good to excellent response rates to TENS in low back pain.2

    Where intense high frequency TENS has been compared with placebo in doubleblind crossover studies, TENS has been shown to be more effective in relieving chronic pain.3 Other studies have indicated that intense TENS is no better than placebo applied with strong suggestion, in treating pain.4 This of course does not preclude the use of TENS as a therapeutic modality, especially as it is largely well tolerated and free of adverse effects. A review of randomly selected doubleblind trials found the placebo effect to be generally around 35%.5 TENS certainly is effective in at least one third of patients treated, but the contribution of the placebo effect to this improvement remains a controversial question. Nevertheless, I think that most practitioners would consider this to be a most satisfactory result in dealing with chronic low back pain.

    R E F E R E N C E S
    1. Long DM. Fifteen years of transcutaneous electrical stimulation for pain control. Stereotact Funct Neurosurg 1991;56:2-19.

    2. Sotosky JR, Lindsay SM. Use of TENS in arthritis management. Bull Rheum Dis 1991;40(5):3-5.

    3. Langley GB, Sheppeard H. Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation (TENS) and its relationship to placebo therapy: a review. NZ Med J 1987;100:215-7.

    4. Langley GB, Sheppeard H, Johnson M, Wigley RD. The analgesic effects of transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation and placebo in chronic pain patients. A doubleblind noncrossover comparison. Rheumatol Int 1984;4:119-23.

    5. Shapiro AK. A contribution to a history of the placebo effect. Behav Sci 1960;5:109-35.

    Acknowledgement: Dr Merilyn Liddell for providing this information.

  114. PaulC says

    Gotta say that Drew is a lot more fun than the typical crank who just reposts a lot of dreary old creationist canards. I have no idea where he comes up with this stuff. It almost makes me want to play too. I could write things like:

    The convergence of Ramon Lull’s Ars Magna and the hermeneutic scholars shows a harmonic equilibrium that goes beyond mere combinatorics and exhibits a true universality. This knowledge is unapproachable by reductionist science, which can only work by assuming linear decomposibility.

    Then while people are trying to figure out what I’m smoking, I’ll post several pages of links to obscure articles.

  115. says

    And your attack on H.M. Collins is interesting but no longer relevant. I had the same reaction when I first read Professor Collins’ critique of the tests on relativity. So I emailed the guy — that was a couple years ago. He responded saying that he clarifies the issue, since he got so many comments from scientists, in the second edition of the book. Sure enough there’s a long discussion giving further information. In no way was there a need to change his analysis — it’s just a more detailed analysis.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0521645506/ref=sib_dp_bod_toc/104-6326985-3125566?ie=UTF8&p=S00C#reader-link

  116. AC says

    So…regarding “TENS”…the brain feels pain via electrical signals carried by the nerves…and monkeying with those electrical signals alters the brain’s experience of pain?

    Truly groundbreaking. My head asplode!

  117. says

    Let me give you a hint:

    Melatonin is by far the greatest antioxident of the body. It’s used to cure cancer. It’s also increased with stimulation of the endocrine system. Melatonin also turns into DMT — the spirit molecule.

    Hint’s over.

  118. says

    A propos of “Kent Hovind is a kook, liquid water is wet,” my favourite “Duh!” headline has always been

    CARCINOGENS CAUSE CANCER,
    STUDIES REVEAL

  119. Steve_C says

    The spirit molecule?

    At what temperature does it become a gas?

    I very “hot air” I assume.

  120. dave says

    Your “communal” mockery will be the testimony against you after you pass from this life. While you may not agree with Mr. Hovind after a casual glance at his statements, you do prove by your accusations and mockery to be far more guilty of moral failure than he is on his worst day. It is you who will be lacking (and therefore hurting) when you are called on to answer to Jesus Christ for your statements and not Mr. Hovind. Think not? I am sure you will find out later who is right, so you may want to rethink your positions before that point.