The demand by some states and companies that people must be vaccinated in certain situations is playing out in an interesting manner in the National Basketball League. Two prominent players Andrew Wiggins and Kyrie Irving had both refused to say whether they were vaccinated and had told people to respect their personal choice. That could have resulted in them not being allowed to play in states that require vaccinations and this would mean that Irving would be prohibited from playing in all home games in New York and Wiggins in San Francisco.
Their argument that their vaccination status is private and that others should respect their personal choices has been echoed by other players such as LeBron James and Draymond Green but basketball legend Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is having none of it and has written an article strongly criticizing both players for not getting vaccinated, and James and Green for supporting them.
After Golden State Warriors’ Andrew Wiggins received criticism for refusing to get the COVID-19 vaccine for personal reasons, his teammate Draymond Green said the public needs to “honor” that decision: “There is something to be said for people’s concerns about something that’s being pressed so hard,” he stated. “Why are you pressing this so hard? You have to honor people’s feelings and their own personal beliefs.” To which LeBron responded that he “couldn’t have said it better myself.” Actually, it couldn’t have been said worse.
…On the surface, it appears that Draymond and LeBron are arguing for the American ideal of individual freedom of choice. But they offer no arguments in support of it, nor do they define the limits of when one person’s choice is harmful to the community. They are merely shouting, “I’m for freedom.” We’re all for freedom, but not at the expense of others or if it damages the country. That’s why we mandate seat belts, motorcycle helmets, car insurance, and education for our children. For example, seat belt compliance is at 88 percent in the United States, but that 12 percent that doesn’t comply results in 47 percent of car accident fatalities (seventeen thousand) and costs US employers $5 billion a year, and those costs are passed on to us. They made the choice, but we survivors are left to deal with the grief and the price tag.
…The only support for Draymond’s statement is his belief that when people “press hard,” there’s something inherently wrong with their opinion. There is no logic to that statement. If I press hard against institutional racism, if I press hard against police brutality, if I press hard against recent laws making it harder for minorities to vote, if I press hard against child pornography, if I press hard in support of #MeToo, am I automatically wrong?
On the contrary, the passion of those urging vaccines might suggest that there’s some urgency to their opinion. That the situation is serious and we need to take immediate action to protect people. That thousands are dying every day, mostly among the unvaccinated. That people in the Black community, where vaccine hesitancy is high, are dying at a disproportionately higher rate than white people. That publicly talking about honoring opinions that contribute to their deaths is irresponsible.
The country also mandates against drunk driving, “pressing hard” against the freedom to drive under the influence. We do that because drunk driving kills eleven thousand Americans every year and costs us more than $44 billion. Vaccine deniers and those who want to “honor” them are like drunk drivers who are convinced they’re okay to drive. When they make it home without an accident, that means they were right. Until they aren’t. Which is why 97 percent of COVID deaths are among the unvaccinated.
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Wiggins later got the vaccine.
Golden State Warriors forward Andrew Wiggins has received his COVID-19 vaccine and will be eligible to play in all games.
…The NBA said it “reviewed and denied” Wiggins’ request for a religious exemption and that he would not be able to play in Warriors home games until he fulfilled the vaccine mandate. Anyone 12 or older is required to show proof of vaccination to attend indoor events at Chase Center, and that message is on the Warriors’ website for fans.
Wiggins declined to explain what those beliefs actually entail, saying, “It’s none of your business, that’s what it comes down to.”
In another interview, Wiggins described his reasons and they had nothing to do with any religious beliefs.
Wiggins told reporters he is the only member of his family who is vaccinated.
“It’s not really something we believe in as a family,” he said. “They know that I had to. It came down to get the vaccination or don’t play basketball. I’m 26. I have two kids. I want more kids. I’m trying to do something that will generate as much money as I can for my kids and my future kids, create generational wealth. So, I took the gamble, took the risk, and hopefully, I’m good.”
Wiggins told reporters that he at an undisclosed time actually had COVID-19 and “it wasn’t too bad.” He said he carries an EpiPen because of an allergic reaction to medicine he took a couple years ago.
Let’s see what Irving does when the time comes to play a game. He has already had to miss practices because his team the Brooklyn Nets are based in New York City that requires proof of vaccination: “The NBA and the National Basketball Players Association agreed to a reduction in pay of 1/91.6 of a player’s salary for each game an unvaccinated player misses because of local COVID-19 vaccine mandates.”
“Wiggins declined to explain what those beliefs actually entail, saying, “It’s none of your business, that’s what it comes down to.” If you are going to use a set of beliefs as an excuse for doing/not doing something, then you better be ready to explain or defend what your beliefs are, especially when lives are on the line. Saying ‘its none of your business’ is another way of saying that they dont have a good reason. They want to press their entitlement. To Mr Wiggins I would say that there are a lot of people that have kids, and that want to have more kids and to generate as much money as they can to secure their kids futures too, but by you and others deciding that your wants and needs are more important than anyone elses wants and needs shows what a selfish jerk you are. I dont believe for one minute he had covid.
This is dumb. It is once again framing it as a personal health issue, and he is making a choice for himself. We know that not everyone who gets COVID-19 will have the mild case that he had -- and that includes people he might infect due to his unvaccinated status.
In addition to all the very good points made above, no one is holding a gun to Irving’s head (are they? these days you have to ask) forcing him to be an NBA player who makes tens of millions, or more, per year.
He is absolutely free to leave and go do something else that doesn’t require a vaccine. He can exercise his “freedom” that way too.
Playing in the NBA is not a constitutionally-protected right, so he’s free to choose the vaccine or that.
“He said he carries an EpiPen because of an allergic reaction to medicine he took a couple years ago.”
This is a valid excuse to not get vaccinated, if his doctor backs it up. In which case he should be allowed to play assuming he gets tested regularly.
However, his doctor cannot back it up due to medical privacy. At this point I’m personally for allowing doctors an exception to publicizing medical info, in vague terms (“there is a medical reason why he cannot get vaccinated, I won’t tell you the details”) but I get the arguments saying that that might be too big an invasion of privacy.
The Dutch (EU in general?) solution to this is to have the public health agency register all vaccinations and tests, and they provide a phone app that gives a (short term) QR code that can be checked for vacc./testing. It only gives a single green/red check whether you’ve been vaccinated or negatively tested recently, without any details.
Along the lines of what @garnetstar said in #3, these people made a choice to live in a society. That choice comes with restrictions. If they don’t like those restrictions, they can either make sound, logical arguments about why those restrictions should not exist (or be relaxed) or change their decision to participate in society. There are perhaps other valid options, too, but complaining about not being allowed a choice is not one of them.
@robert79
That doesn’t seem entirely correct. Regarding previous vaccine mandates, as I understand them (I am most certainly not an expert), most states have medical exemptions and all one needs is to have a doctor agree that one should be exempt. I do not believe the doctor needs to explain why one should be exempt. Because of the reasoning being undisclosed, privacy is maintained.
That said, this leaves a big loophole for people to simply pay an unethical doctor to sign off on an exemption and so perhaps these cities, businesses, etc aren’t actually allowing for medical exemptions with COVID-19 knowing full well such a loophole would be exploited? I can’t say I’ve paid attention to these mandates because I got vaccinated damn near as soon as I was eligible back in April.
What nonsense are you blathering about? If you’re talking about HIPAA, a doctor can publicize any medical info that the patient consents to publicize. And getting a doctor’s note for a medical exemption is a classic example of the subject consenting to disclosure of the information.
Medical privacy laws are not even close to the problem here. Wiggins is just being a dick.
“Two prominent players Andrew Wiggins and Kyrie Irving had both refused to say whether they were vaccinated and had told people to respect their personal choice.”
I do. What I don’t respect is their refusal to accept the consequences. My choice, while I’m vaccinated, is that I still don’t want to be infected by them. And people like Wiggins and Irving don’t respect that.
I don’t need any basketball legend to explain me this simple principle, so I skipped those quotes.
@1 StoneR: No, I don’t give a Surinamese dollar for Wiggins’ beliefs and explanations. I just want him to respect my choice. By insisting that he should play he doesn’t.
@2 RegS: For me it totally is a personal health issue too. Good for Wiggins that it wasn’t too bad for him. That has exactly zero relevance for my choice, which is based on s simple personal health issue: I don’t want to end up at the IC.
@3 GarnetS: exactly.
“his doctor cannot back it up due to medical privacy”
I have a persistent cough and a complete loss of my sense of smell both due to longstanding conditions unrelated to COVID-19.
Because they are also conditions that are commonly associated with COVID, and asked about in various circumstances, I asked my doctor for a letter that explained that they were indeed longstanding conditions unrelated to COVID, and he was happy to give me that letter, which I can show to anyone I want to show it to.
This is in Australia, where HIPPA does not apply, but where there are broadly similar protections to the privacy of medical records.
@4, as others have said, that’s nonsense.
First, a “medicine” that someone took is a drug. The list of ingredients of the Moderna/Pfizer vaccines are freely available online. They consist *solely* of mRNA, fats, and the usual salts and buffers that are in saline. That’s it. There is no reason to believe that an allegy to one medicine predicts an allergy to this vaccine. It’s just like, some people are allergic to penacillin, but not at all to other antibiotics.
And, they do have you wait after a shot to see if you’ll have an allergic reaction, which they are prepared to treat immediately. And as was said, in everything in America, if there is some medical barrier to doing something, the doctor writes a letter saying so. They don’t even have to reveal details: the letter can say that “Activity X, or Vaccine Y, is medically contraindicated for this person.” The end.
But then, just as a practical matter, do you know what NBA players are paid? It’s literally in the tens of millions or hundreds of millions a year, for multi-year contracts, but their playing lifetime, over which they earn that much, isn’t that long, as they do get older. Even 1/91.6 of their salary is millions of dollars. For that much money, I would definitely take the chance of an allergic reaction.
“Getting vaccinated is not just a matter of personal choice”
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Correct if you are an ideologue and an aficionado of virtue signalling.
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Government officials have lost the proper emphasis concerning the Wuhan: minimizing wuhan deaths while minimizing government-driven damage to society.
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Now Government officials are pushing for 100% vaccination rate for the sakes of winning the 100% vaccination sweepstakes.
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Some communities prioritize community life over absolute avoidance of wuhan. No social distancing. No masking. Took wuhan head-on. Accepted the consequent deaths. Today, the community life goes on normally. Said communites include the Amish and the Hasidim.
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Looking at the NBA players is a distraction. NBA players make millions a year and NBA made the rule: no vaccination, no money. Forget natural immunity. Vaccination is proof of ideological virtue.
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Comparing drunk drivers with the non-vaccinated is a red herring. Drivers make a conscious act to drink alcohol. The un-vaccinated do not seek to get wuhan. Vaccinated do happen to catch the wuhan from other vaccinated and un-vaccinated. The overall health of community does not require 100% vaccination.
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For the pragmatic, getting vaccinated is a matter of personal choice. The pragmatic observed that the 1918 pandemic lasted 2 years (and no vaccine), that the current pandemic is 18-mths and going (with vaccine).
friedfishe:
A stupid choice, but sure. It may cost you your health, your job, your life. But hey!
And the stupid imagine all diseases are the same disease, and that all pandemics are the sam pandemic.
Heh.
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PS I already told ya Wuhan is a city, not a disease.
An incapability to learn is a sign of stupidity.
(Also, Wuhan was where the original strain was first detected; might as well call the alpha variant the UK and the delta variant the India, by that conceit)
Well… one more, since it’s so juicy.
Actually, that’s totally backwards.
The ideological and “virtue-signalling” is entirely on the person who, though they should know better, refuses to take a free vaccine which will protect them from the worst consequences of being infected.
The pragmatism is on the enterprises which are willing to ensure that the likelihood of their human assets being offline is minimised via a simple proactive measure.
Heh.
(I haven’t mined out this vein of silliness, but I’ll try to restrain myself. Unless I get rather bored. Shame I can’t actually interact with the drive-by loonie, but ah well)
Garnetatar in 3
We should make a stronger argument. I’ll make a stronger argument. We should have a global vaccinate mandate with no religious exceptions. We can and should require people to do their basic minimum duty to society, including paying taxes, jury duty, and the draft (for just wars -- an extremely rare event).
People shouldn’t have the option to opt out of taxes or jury duty, and they shouldn’t have the option to opt out if this vaccine, imao.