Wow, a novel argument from a creationist. Ken Ham posted this on Facebook yesterday. Stand in awe before his logic.
Atheists who argue that we are just animals are almost always wearing clothes. Do animals wear clothes? No. So instead of making a consistent argument that we are only animals, atheists are instead confirming a literal Genesis 3 where we wear clothes due to sin and shame! God gave Adam and Eve cloths after sin. This works with many other things: Why do we have a seven-day week–the Bible. Why does logic and reason exist–the Bible. Why does knowledge exist–the Bible. Why is marriage defined as a man and a woman–the Bible.
This list can go on for hours! But in an unbeliever’s worldview, they lack the very foundational basis for such things.
We also wear eyeglasses. Do you know any animals who wear glasses? Checkmate, atheists!
I don’t understand how the seven-day week preceded the Bible, though. Did Jesus have a time machine?
If the Bible is the source of logic and reason, why is it that the most fervent believers seem to lack both?
Ken apparently hasn’t noticed how many pets wear clothing these days.
Clothes are tools.
Animals use tools.
All right… but I take no responsibility for all the permanent insanity and gouged-out eyeballs that will ensue.
Remember Ken, YOU wanted this!
FFS, Ken Ham can’t stop lying no matter what.
Even if it is about something trivial.
Got that wrong.
The 7 day week was invented by the Babylonians.
The Israelis borrowed it from them when they wrote their magic book of fiction and atrocities.
But there are animals who wear clothes! Caddisfly larvae, hermit crabs, and veined octopus spring to mind immediately.
We can find all the answers in Genesis. If your boys need wives, but no other humans exist, they can make kids with their mother, or walk over and marry a giantess. These aren’t atheist ideas. They come exactly from the Bible, such as the grandchildren of Eve. You don’t see many animals having babies with their mothers. Truly Answers in Genesis.
How much wronger can one kook be?
According to the bible, the earth is flat and the sky is just a dome with stars stuck on it. The dome has doors so god can pour water on us when he gets annoyed with humans.
This is the human ant farm model of the earth and our existence. It will end any day now when god gets bored with his ant farm and kills us all.
In realityland, we live in a 13.8 billion year old universe with 2 trillion galaxies within our observational region. And it is just getting started.
Remember folks, Ken Ham has declared that atheists must be without sin, since the wearing of clothes denotes sin and atheists shouldn’t be wearing any.
Also, it’s funny how the person who created the Gregorian calendar, just happened to be a devout religious leader who wanted to design the calendar to be around the 7 day week which was borrowed (as noted by Raven @ 4) from the Babylonians. And considering how you won’t find leap years and leap year exceptions mentioned in the big magical book of god, as interpreted by a bible expert and representative of god, you can’t trust the bible for answers.
This is dumb.
It has a lot more to do with it being cold outside at night and during the winter.
We are hairless bipeds who evolved in Africa in the tropics.
Humans needed to (culturally) adapt to live in places in the northern and southern latitudes like for example, Minnesota.
Right now in Morris it is 50 F. (10 C.) with a wind chill factor making it equivalent to 45 F.
we wear clothes due to sin and shame!
Granted, KH has a lot to be ashamed about so maybe that’s why he wears clothes, but I mostly wear clothes because I’m cold, don’t want to get sunburn, for protection, or to keep clean. No one ever hired me for my sartorial splendor.
What must it be like to go through life so obsessed with arbitrarily declared shame and sin, especially when it comes to other people? It must be torture.
Not sure about you guys, but one good reason that I’m currently wearing a nice comfy hoodie instead of showing of my chest hair has nothing to do with sin and shame, but with the temperature having dropped somewhat in recent weeks.
Seven day week has been corrected by others, reason and knowledge – okay, that was a laugh.
As to marriage defined as man and woman, well I suppose we already knew that we here probably know his precious bible better than him and don’t need to be reminded about all the parts where it’s actually man and several women.
Raven @ 4
The Etruscans had a week that fit easily into a binary system?
Goddammit, we lost an opportunity when the roman assholes picked the Babylonian kind.
I believe the old culture at Sri Lanka (with the princes of Serendip, that gave us Serendipity) also had an eight-day week.
I am pretty certain neanderthals and other early humans at least used animal hides * which simple as they were fit well into the ‘animals use tools’ principle.
*There is even a Gary Larson cartoon depicting the moment.
“Hey! If we just carry the hides we don’t need to carry the whole carcasses with us!”
Logic and reason and knowledge predate the bible.
Not very logical, reasonable or knowledgeable there, Ken.
Ah, but my clothes have mixed fibers.
Checkmate, Christians! Or king me, or whatever.
I’ve watched monkeys wear clothing, does that mean Ken should be dancing for an organ grinder?
The most unkind thing one can do to a fool is to allow them to speak what passes for their own mind.
feralboy12 @ # 15: … my clothes have mixed fibers.
Expect to be smote, terminally (within a century or less)!
I would debate Ken Hamhock naked. Just to see his head asplode when he sees my bare ass.
You know, after transitioning my career to focus on pseudosciences that actually have direct material consequences to the world – vaccine denialism, race science, alternative medicine – I sometimes find creationists to be actually kind of adorable.
“Awww, you think your stupidity matters and is worth responding to! Aren’t you precious! Now go along, play over there. Daddy has grown-up things to focus on.”
I sometimes forget creationists even exist because of how relatively inconsequential they are most of the time.
“A Carrier Crab carries an Upside-down Jelly fish on its back. This species of crab frequently carries objects as a form of camouflage. The Upside-down Jellyfish has symbiotic algae in its tentacles, and keeps them pointed upward to catch the most sunlight.”
I’ll just leave this here…
Technically, we are not hairless.
We differ from our extant anthropoid cousins by having quite short hair across the body.
Maybe we should send the Librarian to debate for us.
He could communicate with a slate of text. Downside for Ham; if he tries dirty tricks like the “gish gallop” he will discover that an angry orangutan
1# Is very strong, and
2# has a very long reach. Ook!
Kome @ 19
An even more adorable crowd: Flat- Earthers. The ones even David Icke thinks are silly.
@16 wzrd1 The most unkind thing one can do to a fool is to allow them to speak what passes for their own mind.
Reminds me of the old saying “It is better to shut your mouth and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.”
Brony, Social Justice Cenobite @2: I’d call Ken Hamm a tool, but tools are useful.
The trouble with this statement is that it assumes that people aren’t animals. After all, if people are animals and people wear clothes, then obviously animals wear clothes.
This is just a circular argument in disguise.
But the bible doesn’t say anything about marriage. Christianity, as a world-shunning apocalypse cult, had nothing to say about marriage for the first thousand years of its existence. It was only because being the bureucratic guarantor of aristocratic marriage gave them temporal power that christians in the 11th Century started getting involved with the practice – and the earliest christian marriage rites were conducted in church porches, because it wasn’t thought a fit thing for the sacral space proper.
@ 27
Thank you!!! You don’t know how many times I’ve made that comparison and received sizable pushback—especially from those atheists who think it’s gauche to criticize religion no matter how true. (Whose fucking side are they on!?)
Feralboy12 @ 15
-Does that mean we have to stone you to death, or just flog you or turn you into a slave ?
Only because uptight, anti-sex prigs like you Christians got the political and cultural power to make us wear them.
Do you remember how harsh the Queensland sun is Ken? Do you remember how easily it burns us Caucasians Ken? Some of where clothes to avoid dealing with the elements, even if could get around without wearing clothes.
Wanker.
Why oh why are these people not receiving treatment for mental illness?
Rhetorical question.
Mental illness which is religious based is not seen as mental illness. But it is destroying society.
CLEARLY Ken Ham isn’t an animal.
But although he seems to lack a brain, he sure doesn’t seem like much of a fungi.
Maybe a weed.
I missed the part of the Bible where Yahweh and born of a virgin(to avoid any sin!) Jesus roamed about naked.
birgerjohansson: I believe that “Far Side” cartoon was titled “Early Marketing” and the ad line was “Yes, with the amazing new ‘knife,’ you only have to wear the skins of those dead animals!”
As I recall, Bible-fuckers REALLY don’t think human beings are “animals.” To them, the “beasts of the field” are mindless, soulless things the piss, shit, kill, and fuck everywhere with no thought to morality. They are “things.”
Meanwhile they want to believe that humans are somehow “different,” going so far as to deny science to maintain the illusion that people are somehow separate and superior to other life forms.
https://images.dailykos.com/images/708697/story_image/CatHats10.jpg?1566140989
@ ^ Akira MacKenzie : Which insults my dog and cat and I’m sure most other pet and for that matter wild animals which are definitely NOT “things” and have their own personailties and minds and emotions. It explains tho’ NOT excuses some animal abuse, I guess, if the abuser ahs the mindset that animals (& all too often people) are simply “things” not lifeforms deserving respect. The great Terry Pratchett quote springs to mind :
Source : https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8998140-sin-young-man-is-when-you-treat-people-like-things
Albeit the whole idea of “sin” may be problematic and flawed.
@ 27. cartomancer : “But the bible doesn’t say anything about marriage.”
Actually it says a lot and most of it contradicts Ken the Ham brained as Betty Bowers explains magnificently in this under 5 mins long clip here – and, of course, most of the world has had equal marriage for many years now – even the USA.
@34. Deepak Shetty : I wonder what Ken not-the-astronaut Ham makes of naturists / nudists and whether he considers them sinless and also weren’t thee at least a couple of previous Christianist cults where followers went a round nude or skyclad thinking of that as holier and godlier or something? Adamists? Ah, no, Adamites for one :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamites
I suspect he wouldn’t consider them “true Christians” and likely vice versa too – but then that’s Xnity for ya. So many clashing intrepretations and contradictory doctrines from one supposedly infallible and literally true (LOL!) book.
Oh and FWIW when it comes to nude debates there’s this literal nude debate on nudity here -nearly ten mins long . WARNING : Nudity , NSFW, haven’t seen it in full myself yet so hope its good.
Huh, on Brexit inthe nude actually..
I might give Ham a bit more credit if he had made this statement in a live broadcast from a nudist colony… in compliance with the rules. Of course, that’s measure as a percentage improvement on zero.
On the other hand, this close to Halloween, that might be problematic, with everyone wondering why he had his costume on early.
“Bible says X, therefore any example of X must be following the Bible” has got to be some sort of fallacy. Correlation/causation maybe?
StevoR @ 38, as I recall, Peter, of whom Jesus was to prop a church upon was naked in a boat when Jesus came strolling over to said boat. Guess Peter wasn’t human either or something or maybe Jesus hung out with animals and built churches upon the most sinful people?
You know, pose a question giving him a chance to double down and which sacrilege he wishes to commit. Any of which not many years ago, he’d get tied to a stake and set ablaze for.
Snarki, child of Loki @33
Perhaps Ken Ham is a starfish. They also function without an active brain, and use the same hole for the mouth and their poop chute.
Wait, what?! I’m pretty sure the ancient Greeks were doing a bit of logic and reason centuries BC with no knowledge of the Torah.
In fact, I’ve always been amused by the bit in the Book of Acts, hundreds of years later where the Apostle Paul tries to convert the Athenians, and all they want to do is sit around talking philosophy and reason and logic all day. :-)
Acts 17:15,16,18-21
So Paul gives his spiel and I love the punchline:
Acts 17:32,33
Tough crowd X-D
@ ^ Silentbob :LOL! That last one is classic. Hadn’t heard of that ‘un before. Ditto #43 wzrd1 – cheers both of you!
@42. garysturgess : ““Bible says X, therefore any example of X must be following the Bible” has got to be some sort of fallacy. Correlation/causation maybe?”
All too often the Bble says X and Y when X and Y are incompatible and contradict each other as this classic Bible Contradictions Quiz show cartoon video by NonStampCollector notes here -just short of ten minutes long.
Notice the subtle use of ‘just’ there. Saying that humans are ‘just’ animals is like saying that spiders are ‘just’ arthropods. What does that even mean?
BTW it was not atheists who placed Homo sapiens in the animal kingdom. It was Carl Linnaeus, who was Lutheran iirc.
Don’t have an issue with nudity in the abstract, but try going clothesless in the UK in the winter and see how you get on – atheist or not
@ ^
Hence the term “brass monkeys”. X-D
StevoR, #38
Well, yes, it mentions marriage a lot. But not as a specifically christian thing. There are married people in the bible, but marriage isn’t seen as divinely ordained – it’s a human custom that people have, and not seen as relevant to any of the salvational stuff in the New Testament.
I am not ashamed of my dong.
I wear clothes because other people don’t need it dunked in their soup. (Except on high days and holidays)
Relatively simple.
Louis
Uhhh… can I skip this debate? Asking for a friend.
I wear clothes to be fashionable. Wish all of you could see my “Most of you sold your country for a red hat” hoodie.
@ Louis, # 52: So, unusual choice for a swizzle stick?
He made this argument to Bill Nye as well. I guess he never heard of nudism.
Perhaps that sounds like a convincing explanatory power to Ken Ham, or indeed to anyone else sufficiently indoctrinated in the cult. To anyone else, it sounds like, “I don’t know the answer, I just make shit up. Why do we have a seven-day week? I make shit up! Why do we have logic and reason? I make shit up! I can make shit up for hours!”
Briefly considered sending a link to dear Canned Ham about the naturist site that promotes “Christian nudism”, called Aching For Eden, but a) this would be a horrible thing to do to what I presume are only mildly confused people, and b) he would probably take it as some BS sign that the people there where only naked because they where, “trying to return to a more godly state”. Not that this isn’t, I think, one of their likely arguments, but as I understand it they fundamentally reject the idea that clothing is a sign of sin, so much as man’s stupidity and false shame, and a delusional attempt to hide it from their god by clothing themselves, not some sort of divine mandate.
But, yeah… bloody stupid argument, especially given that I am sure we could find at least one atheist nudist to laugh in his face and tell him they don’t debate cons, liars and wife beaters, nor feel it is effective to treat delusion by pandering to the people holding such with fake debates. lol
Logic isn’t just hard for creationist loons.
Humans are animals.
Humans wear clothes.
Animals don’t wear clothes.
Do you see anything wrong with that?
But somehow humans slipped your mind.
It’s bizarre how many supposedly intelligent people accept Ham’s false dichotomy between humans and animals.
Not quite accurate.
It (or rather she) is.
That was a large part of her analogy … Brexit would be like the UK going nude in the wintertime.
Last time I checked the bible defined marriage as a union between a man and a many wives / sex saves as he can afford.
I know the difference between Dumb Idiot Ham and Stupid Idiot Trump– there is none. They’re both incredibly stupid!