One of the worst people on the right is Nick Fuentes, a bizarre 23 year old racist and misogynist who inexplicably has a large following. Here he is in a video with a Blaze TV talking head in which he makes an amazing admission.
…I think any man who is observant enough and honestly, we could go back to great geniuses, we could go back to people who have been in relationships, like a perfect example is the pick-up artists. Have you ever noticed that pick-up artists who have the most relationships with women and the most sex what they say is that with women it’s the same bag of tricks to seduce a woman or whatever. And I think that kind of tells you something about the nature of women, you go from woman to woman and it’s the same kind of like little tricks little things you can say, whatever, to kind of hack them, I think that kind of says it all about their nature. So, you know…
Interviewer: What does it say about our nature, Nick?
Well, it says that they are not fully rational. I don’t believe that, like men, they possess a certain full rationality…a male has a real impersonal sense of rationality and reason. I think that a female sense is far more personal, and that derives from the fact that women are made to bear children.
He’s a horrible little man, and that he thinks pick-up artists are examples of great geniuses who have been in “relationships” (I don’t he knows what the word means) tells me a lot about him. But that’s not the unsurprising admission. That would be this response:
Interviewer: have you ever been in a relationship with a woman?
No.
I guess he’s aspiring to be the king of the incels.
Fuentes is a right-wing Catholic who has often railed that societal acceptance of pre-marital sex as one of the many sins that is destroying society. So I guess his celibacy is entire voluntary–or he just can’t find a woman who’s willing fuck him and is using piety as an excuse.
Also, on a tangential note, I really wish society would stop picking on people who can’t find a sex partner and are openly depressed about it. The whole idea of “incels” was created by a bisexual woman who had problems finding a partner and created a space on the Internet for those who needed to talk about it. It’s not our fault the concept has been hijacked by fascist misogynists (I know, tautology) and those who want to mock those who can’t get laid.
Good.
These “tricks” the PUAs use? Volume (they keep trying until it works) and rape (Roosh’s own writings show he doesn’t have much of a concept of consent). They can’t just go up to any straight/bi/poly woman, press a mental button here and flip a psychological switch there and get her into bed. There are also a lot of men in the manosphere who hate PUAs because the “tricks” they teach don’t work as they hoped and expected.
That so many men fall for these charlatans and expect to learn how to walk into any social situation and walk out with a woman on their arm ready and eager to get into bed with them… Well, it says that they are not fully rational. I don’t believe that, like women, they possess a certain full rationality…a female has a reality-based sense of rationality and reason.
Ah. My comment disappeared but I think I know which word I used that put it into moderation and that makes sense considering the way it can be used by bad actors coming into comments.
Someone should tell Nick that maybe, just maybe, some of those pickup artists are lying about their success.
@ 4
No! Really?
Fuentes is obviously a horrible person.
He also isn’t very bright.
The pickup artists are mostly a myth.
Fuentes knows enough right here to figure that out.
He has also just demonstrated that women are far more rational that he is.
They know enough to seriously avoid men like this.
I’m going to claim imperfect knowledge about this statement. I’m a Boomer. It’s not like I hang around bars any more, especially since there is a pandemic of a novel virus everywhere in the USA.
It’s what I’ve read repeatedly on the internet in passing since the whole question isn’t a priority.
It’s also what I’ve noticed for my whole life.
Where I went to university, there was one guy who thought he was a pickup artist. He would get young teenage girls drunk and then have sex with them. Very drunk.
Two of them got pregnant and had babies.
Court told him to pay child support or get charged with rape or statutory rape.
Then a third girl got drunk and then pregnant.
At this point, the police and courts decided enough was enough. He wasn’t paying child support and they convicted him and sent him to prison.
Anyone who knows more than me, which is a low bar, can enlighten the thread.
Humans aren’t fully rational.
We are much better at rationalising than at being rational.
Quite a series of leaps there, though if I weren’t reading it here, I’d have cut him off at “great geniuses… a perfect example is the pick-up artists” Like, what?
Tricks of persuasion work on both men and women. It all depends on what you’re selling.
Even taking the pickup artist notion at face value (and I agree there is surely a lot of exaggeration) I don’t see what’s irrational. A woman who goes to a club may be just as interested in “getting laid” as men who go there assuming they meet a suitable casual partner. It’s not like the “pickup artist” invented this idea. The “bag of tricks” consists of a set of social conventions and it works because women are playing out this ritual out as rationally as they would a chess game or tennis match. Not everyone can do it (don’t ask me) but there’s really nothing that special. My hunch is that if you’re a man who wants to pick women up in clubs, it helps to be well-groomed, fairly articulate, up on current pop culture, and not afraid to dance. Also thick skinned. And you have to show up somewhere women go to get laid! Check off those boxes, and it’s not rocket science. It’s also not irrational. It’s socializing and a lot of people (men and women) enjoy it. (Count me out. I’m an introvert.)
raven @7: So the thing I’m taking away from your story is that a sleezebag had to get underaged girls drunk and pregnant at least three times* before the courts actually decided that he was a rapist?
*That we know of. Who knows how many other instances weren’t reported.
Damn, I just look at those horrifyingly mangled sentences Fuentes is using, and I think of all the poor verbs buried in there fighting to get out.
“Free The Verb!!!!”
Akira,
Nobody was mocking incels just because they wanted to get laid. The mockery was for the psychopathic mythology to justify their vision of the government forcing attractive women to have sex with them, otherwise known as legally-enforced rape. Yes, it’s a shame that a perfectly good term was taken over and poisoned by antisocial narcissists, but then the same thing happened to terms like “libertarian” and “rationalist” and “red pill”.
@ 13
Then why do I keep getting lumped in with them when the topic comes up?
Akira MacKenzie@14 I’m not doing any lumping. I’d only suggest that it’s time “rebrand” since the term incel is now owned by some awful people.
Akira, has anyone actually called you an incel? Have you ever demanded that women MUST sleep with you, simply because you are a man? I haven’t seen anyone lumping you in with the group, even if you, like me, have had little success finding a mate.
Sorry, I admit, this a personal anecdote thing. I’ve had a few conversations about Incels that left me with the impression that I was being lumped in with those jerks.
Okay this made me laugh.
I love when some utterly ignorant shithouse is interviewed about something and the interviewer does this. The muppet pontificates fulsomely on some subject about which they clearly know absolutely nothing, and sex is always the funniest one.
These things always sound something like this to me:
“I believe that the lady’s clematis must be fully simulated during cumulonimbus before one moves onto the other elbow”
“And have you ever had sex with a women, or even met one?”
“Well, no, not an actual woman, but I did model one on my Casio calculator and the result was if you turned the calculator upside down it read ‘BOOBIES’ so I think you’ll find I am quite the Casanova.”
Ah to be young and stupider than a bag of rocks. Not clever rocks either.
Louis
Well, yeah.
This was a long time ago, 1980s or 1990s.
At that time and probably still today, Child Protective Services and the courts often don’t pursue statutory rape or drunk sex cases for a lot of reasons.
If they do, the guy gets a felony conviction and isn’t going to pay child support because he can’t. This costs the state a lot.
They prefer to plea bargain it to pay child support and don’t do it again. Or else.
The other problem is witness reluctance. A lot of times these drunk and pregnant girls don’t want to press charges for various reasons. They may actually have consented. Or they don’t remember but think they consented. Or they are so traumatized by everything that they aren’t going to be reliable in court. Or they don’t even know exactly who the father is for various reasons such as multiple partners.
I’ve even seen it once. Late teens girl gets pregnant. Claims she passed out a party and had sex. Changes her story several times. Decides she is in love with the guy and wants to live with him. He is slightly older, has his own apartment, and some money, which in her world makes him attractive. It’s not entirely wrong. He has money because…he is a drug dealer selling marijuana and methamphetamine. That is a job with a future.
For mysterious reasons, the relationship doesn’t last very long. /s
raven: those seem to be stories whose resolution would be much simpler if there were easy access to abortion services.
@12: ALL VERBS MATTER! And so do nouns that get verbed!
Agreed.
I’m sure in most of these cases, abortion is exactly what happens.
The area where all this happened is mostly well educated, well off people on the west coast and abortion is readily available.
I have no idea why these teenage girls didn’t get abortions. It might have been because they were still under the control of their parents and the parents decided for them.
In the case that I saw close up, the girl had the option of getting an abortion and decided not to get one. She was 17 and still in high school. In fact, in her high school of 500 or so people, only two girls got pregnant and didn’t finish school.
Way to limit your options for the rest of your life before you even start your life.
To this guy and every other aggrieved incel, I always want to ask, “why in the heck would any woman want to have sex with you???” Are you too inadequate to get over your fear of actually relating to a woman? Are you even interested in women as people who have ideas, thoughts, concerns, opinions, etc. that they might want to share with a partner? Or do you simply think about them as the meat bag that can get your rocks off? Sorry, not sorry. To gain the attention and interest of women, you have to be a better person yourself, and then you have to drop the entitlement baggage.
Men are exactly as emotional and irrational as women, its just that our culture beats any sense of self understanding and emotionality out of boys by the time they are done puberty. Thus you are left with men who have no connection to their inner self and therefore believe that it doesn’t exist, since they cant see this part of themselves it must not exist and therefore every thought they have must be the most pure and unvarnished reason beamed from the mind of Platos idealized Athena into their head.
One of the most incredible experiences in transitioning has been working with my therapist to understand my unconscious self and being able to understand why I am feeling what I am feeling. Like so much anxiety goes away when you realize that it is coming from this deep part of your mind, or hind brain or whatever, that is just having a complete freakout and you can connect with it and deal with it.
@14 Akira
Because most people here, PZ included, seem to be fine with punching down if they believe they have a self-righteous excuse. They should be ashamed, but good luck convincing them of that; it’s been too many threads now and it’s so much easier to be smugly superior than to really think deeply about the sexual hangups afflicting 21st century American culture. In the meantime, I recommend skipping PZ’s incel posts. No sense in him scoring cheap points at your expense.
@ 25
Two things:
First, I didn’t ask you.
Secondly, you can go fuck yourself.
@25, how is criticizing/making fun of, a group who advocate the most retrograde, dehumanizing ideas about women, and who plan rapey encounters with them, and whose community turns out mass murderers at a pretty alarming rate, “punching down”?
Then, does Fuentes know what happened to Roush V, the self-proclaimed “most succesful” PUA? He’s now a rigid Orthodox Catholic (or some such) who proclaims that all fornication is an abomination. What a genius!
@21 But you have to check on what pronouns nouns and verbs are using because you can’t always tell whether a noun or verb identifies as such.
time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.