Over the years, I’ve noticed something: there are some subjects that instantly draw in the trolls. The two biggest ones are feminism and trans rights, which leads me to suspect that it’s the same subpopulation of self-righteous conservative assholes who abhor them both. The latest instance is in the thread about JK Rowling, in which a commenter named “coldhardrealist”, who’d been stirring up the thread for a while, is recognized as a previously banned commenter named “thirdmill” who had also been banned for their repeated trolling of threads about trans issues. He made a stunningly oblivious confession once caught out.
Over the last ten years or so, I’ve been posting here under probably a dozen different names, all but one of which have been banned. I’ve said a great many things that I don’t really believe, a few things that I partially believe, and some things that I really do believe, mostly to see what the reactions from others would be. (More about that in a minute.)
Does that make me a dishonest person? No more so than any other experimenter who doesn’t completely level with the subjects in advance that they’re part of an experiment.
In this incarnation, I’m a recently returned Iraq war veteran, who started life as a political conservative, has become greatly disillusioned with conservatism, is moving left, but isn’t quite there yet. He’s basically an honest person who sees holes in his previous world view, sees both sides to a lot of issues he once thought were cut and dried, and is really wrestling with difficult issues. Would someone like that be welcome here? Answer: No.
Yes, that makes him a dishonest person. This is not a laboratory, he is not a qualified experimenter, his “experiment” was badly thought out and incompetently run. He doesn’t seem aware that in social settings, people are often pretty good at spotting inconsistencies and feigned behavior, and it makes them suspicious and untrusting, especially when you’re as bad at lying as coldhardrealist/thirdmill. The reason he gets consistently caught out and banned isn’t because the people here are intolerant of differences of opinion, or are unaware of the complexities of the real world, it’s because he’s consistently an asshole.
Oh, and the conceit of pretending to be “a recently returned Iraq war veteran”! That his phony persona was detected and rejected does not mean that a real person like that would be unwelcome here — it just means he’s a terrible actor and is caught out every time. And every time, it seems that his overt transphobia is what exposes him.
He’s been banned, and claims he won’t be back. He will be. Because he’s an asshole. Any other transphobes who barge in here will also be banned, because they’re assholes.
So, let’s tally the charges:
He misrepresents himself–dishonest
He pretends to be an Iraq war veteran–stolen valor.
He says a bunch of shit whether he believes or not just to get a reaction–troll
He wants to perform experiments on human subjects without their consent–unethical.
He craves acceptance–pathetic
He claims to see both sides of issues that really only have one valid side–Republican.
Verdict–Please fuck off, coldhardrealist. And when you’ve finished fucking off here, go far away and fuck off some more.
And, against the express demands of a blogowner, he constantly breaks bans to continue his trolling. He clearly does not believe in consent. Neither in the consent of a blogowner, nor the consent of his imagined “test subjects” to be part of an experiment. This is my surprised face.
And as PZ already indicated, and as clearly shown by some of the replies in the previous thread, people see through him. They know they are talking to someone dishonest, someone who comes here with an axe to grind (and even then I didn’t really see much objectionable to replies given to him, they were mostly addressing his points and pointing out where he fails). He fucked up his own pathetic “experiments”, and no useful data can be gleamed from it.
Congratulations, asshole. Go do something useful with your life, instead of trolling a blog for 10 years (my mind literally cannot grasp that, quite honestly).
@a_ray_in_dilbert_space
Great list. Also add to the list:
Confirmation bias: He already believes something and sets up his experiments in a way to confirm his point of view.
Even I remember seeing through this clown, and I only rarely read the blog.
You get an F for fail for your “experiment” and you’re hopelessly unconvincing.
“And nothing of value was lost.”
I ended up bit baffled of what they might have been referring over: “he sees an issue as being a bit more complex than those here would like it to be”.
That terfs actually have some point? That some of those hateful talking points have some merit? Seems like those christians that work under assumption that atheist have never ever just heard about their religion and if they would just be quiet and listen the person with authority they would begin to see things their way. Like Rowling had said something new that we have never heard before and are just meanies to reject out of hand.
Wow, what a troglodyte. Some trolls almost never leave their basement, but I think the last time this guy saw the sun was during the Bush years.
So his gag is “Ha Ha fooled you! I was never one of you and now you banned me,”? Is he trying to prove this community has a bias? It’s kind of obvious it does. I guess if you have a rational interpretation of reality and social issues, that is a sort of bias.
I guess this guy prefers whatever fantasy world he lives in to the real world.
Since Elevatorgate, I wonder?
Years ago I was warned about this blog, and specifically, about the commenters. I was told how mean the commenters were, and that PZ just banned everybody – for “no reason at all”. At the same time, the very people warning me were spouting intolerant BS that I found hard to bear and I finally decided to try this blog out because I figured it could not possibly be worse.
I hate to tell you all this, but you’re just not very mean. Even PZ banning someone is not mean, it’s something that needed to happen. Thanks, PZ; one of the benefits of the blog is that the intolerant, mean people really are banned. They can go back wherever they came from and spout the BS there instead, while people here can continue to have interesting discussions.
@ lotharloo & a_ray_in_dilbert_space
I can’t help but notice something else which I have found to be typical and diagnostic of this sort: the inordinate emphasis of and allegiance to ‘belief’, as if measures must be taken to defend and preserve it against any threat that a consideration of new information may introduce – information that may potentially deform, disfigure or otherwise shatter the adamantine integrity of their precious convictions.
I have absolutely no sympathy for anybody who cannot accomodate learning something about the world because it might require adjusting their convictions – a state of mind many find so consuming they assign their personal identity to it. Ironically, that is a cultural-psychological habit strongly rooted in the ‘teaching’ of religious doctrine…as if such teaching involves any authentic learning. It is, of course, diametrically opposed to the formal scientific method, but it also represents a grave resistance to what it actually means to be human – that goofy critter which is alleged to be intelligent and sufficiently adept at constructing conceptual models of reality that can, in principle, be updated and refined.
It might amaze they can even drive cars safely in traffic if they are so galvanized to BELIEF (the static model held in the mind…or at least the rudiments of a ‘program’ of sorts) as opposed to paying proper attention to what’s actually happening outside the windshield ahead. That they manage at least that much indicates they’re even more insincere to their convictions than they realize. At least that little contradiction partially restores their humanity, though few of them would admit it.
Maybe three bannings should earn you a DOXing?
Assuming there is any honesty in the commenter , I would want to still encourage them to explore other points of view. Like those who identify themselves on the political right, those who consider themselves to be on the left are a diverse bunch and we don’t agree on everything. J.K. Rowling does consider herself to be very much a leftie, for example.
Wow, what an utter asshole, and as others have noticed, an asshole who does not respect boundaries of others at all.
And if I remember thirdmill correctly, who used to voice very, uhm accomodationist views of homophobes while pretending to be a gay man, one who is extremly harmful for the communities he fakes to belong to. At least I can spare my reply and use the time to clean up the cellar.
Pretending to be an arsehole to get a rise out of people… makes you an arsehole.
That depends. What did the Ethical Review Board have to say about your suggested protocol?
Sorry, what’s that? I can’t hear you over the sound of the tumbleweed bouncing past, and all those crickets.
Um… isn’t that universally agreed upon to be unethical?
Relevant: “If you want to smear shit on your face to make an ironic statement, then more power to you, but you still smell like arse.”
Ben “Yahtzee” Croshaw
I think this is a mistake PZ.
Publiciting the despicable behaviour of the troll is against the first rule about internet trolls (the real trolls must be well feed, lest they turn against us and eat us!): “Don’t feed the troll”.
@17 fernando
Sometimes you run into a troll who is so incompetent at trolling you just have to share. This guy is so bad at trolling, he just told everyone he’s a troll as a sort of gotchya. The whole point of trolling is to keep it going as long as possible to waste the other party’s time and energy.
This dude is just taking his ball and going home because he was LOSING. Like a LOSER. I hope you’re reading this LOSER.
Not directing that at you fernando, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was checking in on this thread right now and I just felt like talking to the moon a bit.
I presume that is referring some mythical burning bush, BCE. That strikes me as being generous. Even those many thousands of years ago, people could have enumerated their(“this guy”‘s) flaws.
@19
LOL not sure thy invented basements yet. I could check the bible but it seems to lack any information about contemporary building codes.
coldhard who now? I’m sorry, I was following the thread but totally skipped over their comments. I guess they can adopt different personae, but can’t mask their tediousness.
Wow, what an utter asshole, and as others have noticed, an asshole who does not respect boundaries of others at all.
And if I remember thirdmill correctly, who used to voice very, uhm accomodationist views of homophobes while pretending to be a gay man, one who is extremly harmful for the communities he fakes to belong to. At least I can spare my reply and use the time to clean up the cellar.
It’s all fun and games when you are a troll punching down on the internet. But also, you are a bad, immoral, shitty person.
@20, Dark cavity behind the cave’s midden pile?
as for wasting other peoples time this guy the multi-headed troll has such a busy and productive life that he could spend 10 years pretending to be a real person multiple times in order to piss other people off and there by have some kind of human interaction which even then was fake.
I do not know if I could think up a more pathetic way to live if I tried for a month 24-7
uncle frogy
karellen #14
Spot on. This would never fly as a real experiment. Anyone with the slightest training would know that. The “I’m a scientist” bit is just the next line of bullshit.
@25
I’m with you Frogy. Pretty damn sad.
The level of cluelessness is breathtaking, even for the Internet. I hope it’s a young person, and that that young person is capable of change.
@9
Same here. People told me this place was full of frothy mouthed ‘shrill’ dog pilers. Makes me wonder what shitty things they said or thought were reasonable to walk away with that impression.
Im dying to see some sort of deep dive into the psyche of the sorts of people who dont just harbour shitty opinions, but make a hobby (sometimes a time consuming one) out of pretending to be various people just to upset people online. I really want to hear from some of them speaking honestly about what compels them and why they cant seem to stop.
@28: The length of time he’s devoted to trolling this blog suggests that even if he was young when he started, he’s definitely not by now. And he’s unlikely to change by now.
I can’t tell if that troll is stupid or dumb. I’m gonna go with both.
whatever his motives may be, trolls like him cause people to expect trolls and the real “returned iraq veteran going the right way by still struggling with things” may be seen as a troll.
The same way that constant “russia gate” craze resulted in comment section on youtube under any polkitical video is full of people accusing others of being russian troll….
Ah yes, ye olde “It’s a social experiment bro!”, the marginally less known cousin of “it’s just a prank bro!”. Just one of the many battle cries of trolls and bullies flung into the wind in a sleazy attempt to justify their assholery. How disappointing, how boring, how utterly predictable.
It’s NEVER just a social experiment/prank/whatever, bro!
I would be fascinated to have this guy in an open thread, where his/her/zeys identity is known and under a geas spell to only tell the truth. We would probably learn about an interesting pathology.
Sadly even a 20th level wizard couldn’t cast a strong enough spell to work on this one.
[No one believes you. Banned. PZM]
trolls by the dozen
paranoid phantasms
me I go off to do something constructive
I took my meds today
reality is much more fun!
uncle frogy
unit000 @ #36
Who died?
Who killed them?
Who were the replacements?
Who were the witnesses?
When did this happen?
Where did this happen?
Oh, for fuck’s sake, CLEAN UP ON AISLE 36!
Well, a post about trolls attracted a troll? Possibly the same troll? Who knows, who cares?
microraptor @ 40
Yeah, who’d have thunk?
There is no shortage of trolls on the net. If you want to learn people’s reactions to trolling, passive surfing is sufficient. Usenet archives has terabytes of people trolling and people reacting on every conceivable subject. So the excuse of wanting to observe reactions doesn’t fly at all. Certainly not for a decade of it.
“And when you’ve finished fucking off here, go far away and fuck off some more.”
Take a long fuck off a short pier
(directed at coldhardliar, not the sensible commenter I quoted, of course)