Fascinating and truly awe-inspiring. As shitty as humanity has been, the curiosity and scientific spirit that spans centuries is one thing that makes me proud.
I’ve been listening to some of the NASA reporting, and it’s full of silly hyperbole like that. It’s actually extremely annoying: here they have this amazing science in progress, and because it trickles out slowly while the NASA PR machine feels an obligation to make as much hay as they can, continuously, while they’ve got the world’s attention, they’ve got these spokespeople just talking, talking, talking, and saying nothing, nothing, nothing.
Johnny Vectorsays
Hate it. All the cheesy CGI makes it impossible to tell what I’m seeing. I had to read the text associated with it to know that it’s (I think) an actual assemblage of photos by Juno. I was taken right out of it when we peered through Galileo’s telescope and saw Jupiter from perpendicular to the sun line. What? And then the spacecraft that is taking the photos appears in the photo. Way to make it all look fake.
C’mon, JPL, you can do better. Or if you can’t, let GSFC do your movies for you.
Rob Grigjanissays
Johnny Vector @4: Yeah, they should’ve gone all the way and CGI-ed Slim Pickens onto the spacecraft, yahooin’ his way into orbit.
No expense was wasted on that epic drama, for sure.
jeffjsays
@2: The words “celestial harmonic motion” are not an example of purple prose. This is technically what’s going on. Harmonics describe orbital resonance.
Rob Grigjanissays
jeffj @8:
The words “celestial harmonic motion” are not an example of purple prose
No, but the “first glimpse” bit is utter bullshit.
Harmonics describe orbital resonance.
Thanks, I’ve studied celestial mechanics.
consciousness razorsays
Marcus:
Music by Vangelis?! Was that an original piece?
Well, it’s “Titans,” from the movie Alexander. Apparently, he gave them permission to reuse it for this. He wrote music for Cosmos and the Rosetta mission as well….
Rob:
No, but the “first glimpse” bit is utter bullshit.
It is? I’m not too familiar with the history, but I would’ve said the Galilean moons were the first examples that people had observed.
Johnny Vectorsays
Rob Grigjanis @9:
Unless by “celestial” they mean “not involving Earth”. It was certainly the first time anyone had seen one body in the sky in harmonic motion relative to another body in the sky. I assume that’s the point they’re making, and it was a huge discovery.
Mr Tommy Picklessays
Rob Grigjanis @2
“our first glimpse of celestial harmonic motion”
One of the silliest quotes ever.
How is that silly? Being able to see the entire Jupiter system all at once and recognize, for the first time in the entire history of mankind, that it meant there was this whole other planet out there with it’s own moons orbiting around it. That is the opposite of silly, it’s profound.
Johnny Vectorsays
Ah, I wonder if Rob was thinking the quote was referring to Juno’s images. I’m pretty sure it was referring to Galileo’s observations, but there was a long gap between the lower thirds.
Rob Grigjanissays
Johnny Vector @13:
I wonder if Rob was thinking the quote was referring to Juno’s images
Definitely. Am I the only one?
I’m pretty sure it was referring to Galileo’s observations
I didn’t get that impression at all, and I don’t recall Scott Bolton mentioning Galileo’s observations. What I do see all over the place is stuff like this, in the LA Times;
Juno gives humanity its first look at planetary motion in action
NASA stitched them together into this video, giving humanity its first direct glimpse of celestial harmonic motion.
What have telescopes, cameras and the various other Jupiter missions been doing all this time?
When I first heard this, I put it down to Bolton’s quite understandable giddiness.
Johnny Vectorsays
Rob: Well, it seems clear that lots of other people, including journalists, are interpreting it the way you are.
So either that’s the correct interpretation, in which case yeah, what a hot mess. Or that’s the wrong interpretation, in which case the video is poorly made. There’s about a 60 second gap between “for Galileo, a revelation” and “for humanity, our first glimpse of celestial harmonic motion”, there is no punctuation between the two phrases, and there is no capitalization. It actually seems reasonable to interpret it wrongly, now that I look at it.
I reiterate and amplify my call for JPL to send all their video production work to GSFC.
“In all of history, we’ve really never been able to see the motion of any heavenly body against another,” marveled Juno principal investigator Scott Bolton at a press conference.
WTF? Someone needs a lot of sleep, I’m guessing.
Ed Seedhousesays
The shot gives the impression that Jupiter showed phases through Galileo’s telescope, but actually you never see phases of Jupiter through a telescope. It is so far from the sun that it never forms an angle relative to Earth big enough to show significant phases. Juno saw “half Jupiter” because it’s approach was well off the ecliptic.
I have looked at Jupiter through binoculars and telescopes hundreds of times and it never once showed Moon like phases. At the most it becomes slightly oblate, like the moon just before or after it’s full phase.
Mars shows slightly larger phases, but not like the moon. Venus and Mercury show a full range of phases because they orbit closer to the sun than we do. The other planets, nah.
That booboo completely ruined the video for me. Darn you, facts!
consciousness razorsays
“In all of history, we’ve really never been able to see the motion of any heavenly body against another,” marveled Juno principal investigator Scott Bolton at a press conference.
Wow, okay, that’s clearly wrong. I had interpreted the video as claiming that (centuries ago) Jupiter’s moons were our first glimpses of the phenomenon in an astronomical context (which at least sounds plausible, and I’m guessing it’s true), not that the Juno mission is going to offer that for the first time. The other interpretation didn’t even occur to me, but now….
I’m sure there will be more pictures at a better resolution than what we had, so it’s kind of understandable where this crap came from, but that’s not what is usually meant by “being able to see” stuff. The press is going to mangle this stuff up enough as it is — you really don’t have to hand them garbage like this.
The shot gives the impression that Jupiter showed phases through Galileo’s telescope, but actually you never see phases of Jupiter through a telescope. It is so far from the sun that it never forms an angle relative to Earth big enough to show significant phases. Juno saw “half Jupiter” because it’s approach was well off the ecliptic.
I have looked at Jupiter through binoculars and telescopes hundreds of times and it never once showed Moon like phases. At the most it becomes slightly oblate, like the moon just before or after it’s full phase.
Mars shows slightly larger phases, but not like the moon. Venus and Mercury show a full range of phases because they orbit closer to the sun than we do. The other planets, nah.
That booboo completely ruined the video for me. Darn you, facts!
Jupiter is actually oblate because of it’s fast 10 hour rotation period. The centrifugal forces actually distend the planet at its equator. Well, all planets do that, even Earth, but not to the extent that Jupiter does. Such that the effect is easily discernible in even a small telescope.
I feel like I have to point out that the perspective of Juno’s view in the video is completely different than what we see from Earth. Earths line of sight is pretty much exactly in line with the Jovian system’s ecliptic so that we only ever see it satellites in a straight line on either side of the planet. The video more closely approximates how we see the Saturninan system from Earth’s perspective.
birgerjohanssonsays
If NASA is going to fuck around, I wish they had borrowed wholesale from 2001, with the atonal choir and everything.
Ed Seedhousesays
drksky@20:”I feel like I have to point out that the perspective of Juno’s view in the video is completely different than what we see from Earth.”
That’s obvious and I thought I had already pointed that out. The video shows the camera viewpoint approaching a telescope eyepiece and then showing apparently the view as seen through the eyepiece from the perspective of a telescope on Earth. That is the distinct impression that is given, but in fact that view would *never* be seen from a telescope on earth.
And that spoiled the whole thing, for me at least.
Also the nonsense about never having seen a celestial body moving against the background of another celestial body was stupid. Solar eclipses are just that, and if you won’t accept that there’s transits of both Venus and Mercury that have been observed for centuries. I believe that Venus, Mercury, and the Sun are celestial bodies. And we now have a spacecraft out in one of the Lagrange points that has sent back pictures of the Moon passing in front of the Earth from it’s viewpoint. Not to mention the original Apollo 8 “Earthrise” pics from 1968.
Of course movies have for decades been showing silly things like roaring engines from a spacecraft moving through *airless* space, but I expect that of Hollywood.
NASA should be able to do better and should be held to higher standards.
Fascinating and truly awe-inspiring. As shitty as humanity has been, the curiosity and scientific spirit that spans centuries is one thing that makes me proud.
“our first glimpse of celestial harmonic motion”
One of the silliest quotes ever.
I’ve been listening to some of the NASA reporting, and it’s full of silly hyperbole like that. It’s actually extremely annoying: here they have this amazing science in progress, and because it trickles out slowly while the NASA PR machine feels an obligation to make as much hay as they can, continuously, while they’ve got the world’s attention, they’ve got these spokespeople just talking, talking, talking, and saying nothing, nothing, nothing.
Hate it. All the cheesy CGI makes it impossible to tell what I’m seeing. I had to read the text associated with it to know that it’s (I think) an actual assemblage of photos by Juno. I was taken right out of it when we peered through Galileo’s telescope and saw Jupiter from perpendicular to the sun line. What? And then the spacecraft that is taking the photos appears in the photo. Way to make it all look fake.
C’mon, JPL, you can do better. Or if you can’t, let GSFC do your movies for you.
Johnny Vector @4: Yeah, they should’ve gone all the way and CGI-ed Slim Pickens onto the spacecraft, yahooin’ his way into orbit.
Music by Vangelis?! Was that an original piece?
No expense was wasted on that epic drama, for sure.
@2: The words “celestial harmonic motion” are not an example of purple prose. This is technically what’s going on. Harmonics describe orbital resonance.
jeffj @8:
No, but the “first glimpse” bit is utter bullshit.
Thanks, I’ve studied celestial mechanics.
Marcus:
Well, it’s “Titans,” from the movie Alexander. Apparently, he gave them permission to reuse it for this. He wrote music for Cosmos and the Rosetta mission as well….
Rob:
It is? I’m not too familiar with the history, but I would’ve said the Galilean moons were the first examples that people had observed.
Rob Grigjanis @9:
Unless by “celestial” they mean “not involving Earth”. It was certainly the first time anyone had seen one body in the sky in harmonic motion relative to another body in the sky. I assume that’s the point they’re making, and it was a huge discovery.
Rob Grigjanis @2
How is that silly? Being able to see the entire Jupiter system all at once and recognize, for the first time in the entire history of mankind, that it meant there was this whole other planet out there with it’s own moons orbiting around it. That is the opposite of silly, it’s profound.
Ah, I wonder if Rob was thinking the quote was referring to Juno’s images. I’m pretty sure it was referring to Galileo’s observations, but there was a long gap between the lower thirds.
Johnny Vector @13:
Definitely. Am I the only one?
I didn’t get that impression at all, and I don’t recall Scott Bolton mentioning Galileo’s observations. What I do see all over the place is stuff like this, in the LA Times;
What have telescopes, cameras and the various other Jupiter missions been doing all this time?
When I first heard this, I put it down to Bolton’s quite understandable giddiness.
Rob: Well, it seems clear that lots of other people, including journalists, are interpreting it the way you are.
So either that’s the correct interpretation, in which case yeah, what a hot mess. Or that’s the wrong interpretation, in which case the video is poorly made. There’s about a 60 second gap between “for Galileo, a revelation” and “for humanity, our first glimpse of celestial harmonic motion”, there is no punctuation between the two phrases, and there is no capitalization. It actually seems reasonable to interpret it wrongly, now that I look at it.
I reiterate and amplify my call for JPL to send all their video production work to GSFC.
Also, this;
WTF? Someone needs a lot of sleep, I’m guessing.
The shot gives the impression that Jupiter showed phases through Galileo’s telescope, but actually you never see phases of Jupiter through a telescope. It is so far from the sun that it never forms an angle relative to Earth big enough to show significant phases. Juno saw “half Jupiter” because it’s approach was well off the ecliptic.
I have looked at Jupiter through binoculars and telescopes hundreds of times and it never once showed Moon like phases. At the most it becomes slightly oblate, like the moon just before or after it’s full phase.
Mars shows slightly larger phases, but not like the moon. Venus and Mercury show a full range of phases because they orbit closer to the sun than we do. The other planets, nah.
That booboo completely ruined the video for me. Darn you, facts!
Wow, okay, that’s clearly wrong. I had interpreted the video as claiming that (centuries ago) Jupiter’s moons were our first glimpses of the phenomenon in an astronomical context (which at least sounds plausible, and I’m guessing it’s true), not that the Juno mission is going to offer that for the first time. The other interpretation didn’t even occur to me, but now….
I’m sure there will be more pictures at a better resolution than what we had, so it’s kind of understandable where this crap came from, but that’s not what is usually meant by “being able to see” stuff. The press is going to mangle this stuff up enough as it is — you really don’t have to hand them garbage like this.
@17, Ed Seedhouse:
Jupiter is actually oblate because of it’s fast 10 hour rotation period. The centrifugal forces actually distend the planet at its equator. Well, all planets do that, even Earth, but not to the extent that Jupiter does. Such that the effect is easily discernible in even a small telescope.
I feel like I have to point out that the perspective of Juno’s view in the video is completely different than what we see from Earth. Earths line of sight is pretty much exactly in line with the Jovian system’s ecliptic so that we only ever see it satellites in a straight line on either side of the planet. The video more closely approximates how we see the Saturninan system from Earth’s perspective.
If NASA is going to fuck around, I wish they had borrowed wholesale from 2001, with the atonal choir and everything.
drksky@20:”I feel like I have to point out that the perspective of Juno’s view in the video is completely different than what we see from Earth.”
That’s obvious and I thought I had already pointed that out. The video shows the camera viewpoint approaching a telescope eyepiece and then showing apparently the view as seen through the eyepiece from the perspective of a telescope on Earth. That is the distinct impression that is given, but in fact that view would *never* be seen from a telescope on earth.
And that spoiled the whole thing, for me at least.
Also the nonsense about never having seen a celestial body moving against the background of another celestial body was stupid. Solar eclipses are just that, and if you won’t accept that there’s transits of both Venus and Mercury that have been observed for centuries. I believe that Venus, Mercury, and the Sun are celestial bodies. And we now have a spacecraft out in one of the Lagrange points that has sent back pictures of the Moon passing in front of the Earth from it’s viewpoint. Not to mention the original Apollo 8 “Earthrise” pics from 1968.
Of course movies have for decades been showing silly things like roaring engines from a spacecraft moving through *airless* space, but I expect that of Hollywood.
NASA should be able to do better and should be held to higher standards.