Over the last few days, there have been some ups and downs in crank medicine. The Tribeca Film Festival scheduled Andrew Wakefield’s anti-vaccine documentary to be shown, and Robert DeNiro defended it as a legitimate contribution to the discussion of the causes of autism. It isn’t. It’s rank nonsense from a discredited quack.But then DeNiro changed his mind and yanked it from the schedule. Good for him!
But now, lest you think the problem is solved, let me remind you that there are bad parents medically abusing their children everywhere.
Well, hey, chiropractors are doctors too, right?
maybe if the CDC didn’t cover up and destroy research documents and data that shows a connection between vaccines and black babies getting autism at a much higher risk, then people wouldn’t be so skeptical of vaccines and the the scientific community as a whole.
“CDC whistleblower Thompson’s statement, which Posey read on the House floor, includes this bombshell:
“However, because I [Thompson] assumed it [destroying the documents] was illegal and would violate both FOIA and DOJ requests, I kept hard copies of all documents in my office and I retained all associated computer files. I believe we intentionally withheld controversial findings from the final draft of the Pediatrics paper.”
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/053439_CDC_documents_MMR_vaccines_autism.html#ixzz446zhIlyA
In the early stages, you won’t be able to hear it. But you will see it on x-ray.
You heard of MMS/CD?
It’s essentially poisoning Autistic kids with bleach (either orally or sometimes up the other end)
It’s marketed by a ‘church’ for legal reasons and is sadly now cropping up here in the UK.
Ooh, an evidenceless creationist supporting inane and unevidenced conspiracy theory against vaccines. No understanding of what scientific evidence is. Typical.
#1 tommyhall
The link you gave us tells me there’s an anti-vaxxer out there with hard-copies of CDC reports showing a link between autism and the MMR vaccine – something that every other study has shown not to exist.
He’s not publishing them?
Isn’t he as complicit as the CDC then?
Or maybe there’s no story and you’re just deluded.
tommyhall, that was long ago debunked, with all documents made available to the public. When did personal notes suddenly become public documents?
The laugh was, Thompson didn’t know that he was being recorded – which is a felony in many states. The entire matter went before Congress, the entire matter debunked and closed.
Save, for antivaxers, who are an evidence free crowd anyway.
“That’s the deal . . ., that’s what I keep seeing again and again and again . . . where these senior people [at CDC] just do completely unethical, vile things and no one holds them accountable.”
— Dr. William Thompson to Dr. Brian Hooker in a recorded phone call, June 12, 2014
and another:
“I basically have stopped lying.” He had hired one of the best whistleblower attorneys in the country, and he was ready to take the heat for exposing the truth about vaccine fraud at the CDC: “So I have to deal with a few months of hell if all this becomes public, um, no big deal. I’m not having to deal with a child who is suffering day in and day out.”
and another:
“The CDC has put the research ten years behind. Because the CDC has not been transparent, we’ve missed ten years of research because the CDC is so paralyzed right now by anything related to autism.”
and another:
“I can say that pretty confidently, vaccines cause tics. We replicated that.” The replication study was “Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years.” He then suggests the “mantra” should switch to “. . . (and) tics are four times as common among kids with autism,” and “There is biologic plausibility right now, I really do believe there is, to say that Thimerosal causes autism-like features.”
and another:
“People that have been my supervisors have broken laws.” http://thinkingmomsrevolution.com/the-thompson-transcripts-shocking-revelations-by-the-cdc-whistleblower/
The medical establishment is full of quacks, liars and political activists who have agendas, just like the biological sciences.
*pokes tommyhall*
This Troll is no fun. Better trolls please. Something with entertainment value, not a copy pasta chef.
My so. Has a classmate who has not been vaccinated and when he gets sick his parents hold crystals up to his face. He got in trouble for calling his parents whack jobs.
TommyHall
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/did-a-high-ranking-whistleblower-really-reveal-that-the-cdc-covered-up-proof-that-vaccines-cause-autism-in-african-american-boys/
And you are someone who doesn’t understand what facts are or mean.
Evidence vaccines work is seen with the eradication of smallpox from the Earth, and polio from most most of the world except a few hard core paranoid/religious areas who believe in the same conspiracies you do. Delusional fools all.
Foz, long-winded word salad doesn’t somehow undermine direct quotes from the researcher himself.
Why is their someone’s brain diarrhea on my shoes?
You know what, tommyhall? I’d far rather my hypothetical child be autistic than dead from some preventable disease. When people insist that vaccines cause autism (which is NOT true) what they’re saying is that potentially dying is better than being autistic. That a dead child is preferable to a live autistic child. So this means what you’re not only spreading completely false information, but you’re also telling autistic people that being dead is preferable to being *them*. So you’re doubly an asshole.
tommyhall, nothing shouts honor like committing a felony to try to prove a fiction is real.
Again, personal notes are never part of a study, they’re personal notes and can be destroyed. Data is used in studies, not personal notes.
Meanwhile, the entire tempest in a teapot was utterly debunked, the “theory” disproved and the illegal wiretap remains an illegal, dishonorable act.
Are you next going to trot out a decade old debunked story?
tommyhall@#8:
The medical establishment is full of quacks, liars and political activists who have agendas, just like the biological sciences.
You could say that about every profession and establishment. That’s why science tries to weed them out through cross-checking eachothers’ work.
How’s your establishment for quacks, liars, and political activists? Matthew 7:3-5 KJV for ya.
For tommy:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/08/22/brian-hooker-proves-andrew-wakefield-wrong-about-vaccines-and-autism/
*sprooooiiiinnnnnnng*
Tommy is merely ensuring big checks arrive in the mail from the Quack PAC and the Tin Foil Hat Society.
Fuck off, really. Most of my best friends are autistic, some of whom were thought to be this nebulously defined “low functioning” sort. Guess what? They’re perfectly well-adjusted people that flourished once people stopped treating them like a lost cause, and really don’t fucking appreciate the implication that they’d be better off dead than autistic.
We’re closing in on two years since he made his allegations. So, where can we see the documents?
vaccines cause all kinds of disorders….on the physical side there’s the spectrum of autism and all of its variants…then there’s learning disorders, like add and adhd…then there’s psychological disorders like homosexuality, transexuality, etc….then there’s mental disorders such being prone to atheism, liberalism, OCD disorder….and finally emotional disorders such as depression, anxiety, psychosis, etc……Vaccines may actually work — they may actually help one be resistant to various diseases, but the side effects are devastating to soceity, causing a full spectrum of dysfunction.
Well, I’ll certainly take your word for it, Mr. Anonymous-person-on-the-internet.
Meh, troll jumped the shark when he got to the whole “homosexuality and atheism are mental disorders” thing. Boring.
I really cannot understand that kind of person- first believing a chiropractor, now consulting Facebook friends for advice rather than qualified medical staff? The doctor was right to ask this parent exactly why they were at the ER. as they certainly doesn’t seem to know if they need someone else to find excuses for them.
When I was 4 years old my mother took me to the local GP after 3 days of high temp and then a rash , and he sent me home because my chest seemed clear. My temp went up, so she took me to the ER, they xrayed me, and guess what- I spent the next 10 days in hospital with Pneumonia. It wasn’t a pleasant experience ( and yep, I do remember it very well) but I would rather be recalling it than not.
One of the cool things about engaging trolls is that they eventually write something that completely removes any doubt as to their credibility. As TommyHall just did in #23.
Now some might say Tommyhall did that with his first post, but I’d suggest that there are some people who stumble upon threads like this one who just might not be educated enough to see the idiocy in his first couple of posts. But then in #23 he completely removes all doubt.
Vivec (#25):
I was vaccinated, and now I’m an atheist. Tommy’s story checks out.
Also, if childhood vaccines are what made me gay, thank god for vaccines.
tommyhall @ 23:
(emphasis added for… well, seriously)
So, your argument is that if we hadn’t started vaccinating, we wouldn’t have had the pesky Civil Rights Movement?
I’m just making sure I understand your arguments here.
Anri@30:
“Tommyhall” doesn’t make arguments, he makes claims. Utterly disproved claims.
Learning how to actually argue would be dangerous to him, since he would then be able to see through his ludicrous claims, and that would be too much for him to handle.
tommyhall must be vaccinated, as that must have caused his trollhood.
My cats are vaccinated; that must be why they lick their bungholes. Almost every cat that was vaccinated licks their bunghole. IT’S A CONSPIRACY!
All occupants of my household are vaccinated, including my dogs. Is this why they bark at strangers? (The dogs, not the people.)
@tommyhall
I would like to see your data for this statement. Like, how you explain the simple fact that virtually all first world countries have high immunisation rates while not being devastated at all. If there is a correlation actually, it is in the opposite way as in low immunisation rate correlates with poorly functioning society.
Anyone who says that atheism and liberalism are mental disorders is an idiot who knows jack shit about biology and psychology and probably anything else. So I do not really expect an answer from you, not one that makes sense anyroad.
@tommyhall #23
Vaccines also cause Molly Tham syndrome.
Well, in precisely one real way, there is indeed a link between vaccines and various maladies.
After all, if the child died, the child would never be diagnosed with any subsequent ailment.
Smallpox killed around 35% of its victims. That’s a hell of a lot of children that didn’t grow up.
Polio killed between 2 and 5% of children and 15 – 30% of adults.
One in one thousand children who have measles die from it. Last July, we had our first measles death since 2003. http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2015/07/02/measles-death-us/
I could go down the list of other vaccine preventable diseases and their morbidity and mortality rates, but there’s a trend obvious that a hell of a lot of children never got to grow up.
As for autism being caused by vaccines, billions of dollars have been spent disproving that nonsense, indeed, the singular physician who championed that link lost his license. He was promoting his own measles vaccine, was paid for by a “vaccine injury” lawyer and he performed painful and unnecessary tests to “prove” a specific GI malady exists in autistic children and that was also disproved.
But, people keep trumpeting his disproved “link”, as if that 1998 paper, which was withdrawn, really means something. They enrich him at every opportunity and still call the licenseless man a doctor. He peddles his bullshit far and wide, to the disadvantage of all who follow him.
Because of his fraud, we have polio and measles resurgent.
Because, having one’s child die is a cool thing to some sociopaths.
tommyhall
Trolling is a bannable offence here.
Get off the internets and go eat some chocolate.
You’ll feel better.
Chigau, now I know why I’ve been cranky!
I’m out of chocolate. I’m going to have to fix that. :)
wzrd1 (39)
Wait till tomorrow, it’s cheaper.
I’m with CaitieCat–this is a really boring troll. Copy/paste bullshit followed by gibberish word salad.
Not even worth making fun of.
frog, nothing excites you people unless it jives with your imaginary sky chimp religion that you somehow oozed from rodent gonads.
tommyhall
Go away.
If I am recalling properly, you’ve mentioned being on the spectrum yourself. But what my aspie experience has taught me is that they’re right: Being dead would be far preferable to being me/being this way. (Yes, others’ mileage may vary and they prefer being alive.)
tommyhall, please shut the fuck up, really. Children die because of lies like yours.
I suppose tommy’s biggest problem is that vaccination actually works and, oh horror, allows Weak People to Breed. In his dream world his club of godbotherers and jesusmutterers would be allowed to rule simply by force of numbers. All the Weak People are destroyed by Gifts of Deadly Disease by his “loving” deity while his friends survive due the Power of Prayer.
Tommy, your Tin-Foil-Conspiracy-Hat™ is on too tight. It makes you even more incoherent than normal.
*Relax, the black helicopters are on their way, so you can get a good rest.*
you apes would really freak if I made the claim that pesticides and herbicides and mercury caused homosexuality.
http://ultraculture.org/blog/2014/02/21/scientist-threatened-stalked-findings-syngenta-herbicide/
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19784-mercury-poisoning-makes-male-birds-homosexual/
of course it’d just be one more thing that the materialist monkey-brained skeptic can’t comprehend.
And our dear little tommy erupts in a lava flow of red hot bigotry.
@tommyhall: what your minister did to you isn’t really vaccination.
Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, homosexuality is older than humanity. Many mammals show homosexual behavior.
Here is a hint, when one’s theory requires the use of a time machine for it to work, such as herbicides and pesticides that are really quite new, the theory is bullshit.
Jebus fucking christ. Tommy Hall demonstrates that if you’re an idiot in one thing, you’re an idiot in a bunch of other things.
Actually citing naturalnews? Fucking hell.
Well, there is worse, such as mercola…
Meh, about as bad on second thought.
What is it with these dweebs and their allergy to peer reviewed literature?
Oh, that’s right, their bullshit views aren’t supported by valid research.
Hm, okay, I can see why the x-ray might have been refused. Another (perceived) professional had already ruled out what the new doctor wanted to rule out by doing the x-ray. Not everbody is in the loop as to which doctory type is a useless quack, and being a (proper) doctor does not preclude the possibility of being incompetent or making occasional mistakes. Of course I can’t tell whether the x-ray was refused outright or if this decision came after follow-up questions by the parent to get more information before deciding against it. (The doctor’s apparent reaction seems to suggest the former).
Still, it made me wonder if there are good reasons to refuse an x-ray. A quick google brought me to an FAQ-style list on x-rays by the FDA, which highlighted possible concerns and generally suggested only getting them when necessary (‘Don’t insist on doing an x-ray’), but otherwise I found nothing compelling. The only reason I could think of is that, since this happened in the US, there is bound to be a ridiculous bill attached to it that probably won’t be covered by insurance. Not a good reason to refuse medical treatment but perhaps inevitable if the family’s finances are dire enough.
Are there actually any good reasons to refuse an x-ray? Presumably there are some circumstances where an x-ray is unwise for medical reasons, but then the doctor probably wouldn’t have suggested one in the first place..
@roachiesmom #44-
Yes-no. My behaviour/mannerisms as a child could probably have gotten me diagnosed with aspergers or autism (hatred of physical contact with people/ easily overstimulated from sights, sounds, physical sensation/ learning human body language consciously the same way I learned dog body language/ reading at a 4th grade level when I was 5, finished the Lord of the Rings at age 9, etc) but I have never been actually diagnosed as such.
What I do have, for certain, is *severe* adhd. I managed to force myself into good brain days for 4 days in a row this week, and then yesterday afternoon my brain basically turned ‘off’. I was mid conversation, completely lost track of everything and had to apologize and walk away. Asked to be allowed to clock off early since all the surgeries for the day were done, and proceeded to take a 3 hour nap in the corner because I was mentally unsafe to drive. That hard reboot worked enough for me to get home. I’m very proud of how well I managed to function for those 4 days though; I was actually remembering shit for once! Stuff that anyone else would take for granted, but little detail things that are usually gone in seconds for me.
And no, tommy, the ADHD isn’t from vaccines. It’s genetic.
The ancient greeks clearly suffered from pesticide poisoning and vaccines, this is why they made those beautiful glazed vases showing homosexual acts.
When will our latest troll start raving about, oh, I dunno, the Illuminati controlling the plant, or perhaps the CIA beaming thoughts into his brain? Or perhaps something more mundane, such as spy satellites watching his every move?
komarov, as I recall, the only real contraindication was prior high level radiation exposure. Other than cancer survivors, treated by rather long out of practice high dose large body area exposures, a few old former nuclear workers, that’s a rather smallish group.
Pregnancy is also a contraindication, if an abdominal x-ray is to be performed, beyond that, not much in the way of contraindications.
X-ray exposure is also a great deal less now, compared to the past, when film technology was still young. Today’s exposure is quite low, compared to what it was 40 years ago. Low, as in getting a chest x-ray and a transatlantic flight giving around the same dose.
blf, spy satellites watch my every move. Nobody’s watching them, but they watch away at anything and everything. ;)
Why, once, I even saw a blur that was myself on a Google Earth satellite shot.
tommyhall
The day commemorates the day YourLordAndSaviour rose from the dead.
Couldn’t you try to be more Christ-like?
blf
The glazes on those old greek pots contained lots of heavy metals.
just sayin’ …
Now, just where did I put my uranium glass wine glass?
chigau, Yes, the ancient Greeks had their nutters too, who, lacking tin-foil for their helmets, used those metal-laden glazed fired pots. They didn’t just use the then-common bronze helmets so as to fool the spy-hawks, and — as some ancient scrolls which have yet to written say — also so they wouldn’t be lightening rods. Apparently, the magic sky faeries of the day had better aim, albeit no better manners.
@blf, which lead to the saying, “Beware of Greeks wearing Trojans”.
bcwebb @50,
Don’t do that.
wzrd1@63, I laughed out loud at that. Thanks!
@22
You’re free to feel how you want about the “better dead than autistic” line of reasoning, but anti-vaxxers declaring that literally every autistic person would be better off dead – and sometimes acting on that impulse by murdering their autistic children – is objectively awful.
Er, @44.
Charming Tommy, everyone who doesn’t agree with you is insane. Huh. I see a ban hammer in your future.
Hmmm, no, stepping up from cut-and-paste to vomiting tantrum isn’t any more interesting.
Sorry, dude, you don’t make the troll Olympic team this year.
numerobis @ 33
Thanks. :) That comment won my internets for today.
Quoting NaturalNews is bad enough, but the Thinking Moms Revolution makes me want to rip out my own eyeballs. It is an utter cess-pit of people who will *never* accept their children for who they are.
The OP and Mr TH both remind me of an important scientific discovery from last year:
Scientists: Earth Endangered by New Strain of Fact-Resistant Humans
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/scientists-earth-endangered-by-new-strain-of-fact-resistant-humans
DanDare, that isn’t a bug, it’s a feature.
Sabotage the educational system, even prohibit teaching critical thinking, leave an ignorant populace.
The educated are impossible to control, the ignorant, trivial to control via their fears.
@64. Sorry. Cheap shot on my part.
When I was small I had whooping cough, my mother described listening to me whooping through the night for weeks while she wondered if I would be alive in the morning.
..now there’s a vaccine.
In my family tree, my great grandfather had 7 siblings, 2 made it past small pox and tuberculosis.
bcwebb, my father lost a sister to the sequae of bacterial meningitis.
Life was shockingly short for children not all that long ago. Some seem to want to bring that horror back.
I’ll happily battle any antivaxer at ten paces with a muzzle loading supersoaker.
Ignore that liquid nitrogen, I’m just making fertilizer. ;)
Freeze ray! “You’re supposed to shoot, then say it.”
Damn, but my wife has me watching too many cartoons…
@komarov #54
” since this happened in the US, there is bound to be a ridiculous bill attached to it that probably won’t be covered by insurance. Not a good reason to refuse medical treatment but perhaps inevitable if the family’s finances are dire enough.”
Assuming the GeoTagging on the Facebook post was correct..
Hinsdale is one of the wealthier towns in Illinois. There are still a few older [1950s-70s) modest ranch houses, but the vast majority of the town’s homes are either big Victorian-era houses or new McMansion to real honest-to-goodness mansions.
Quick search has 45 houses for sale priced between $2M – $6.5M.. and it’s not that big of a town. Any detached home listed for under $500k will probably be torn down by the buyer.
It’s possible someone living in Hinsdale was uninsured and couldn’t afford an Xray but they wouldn’t be a typical Hinsdale resident.
If the geotagging was off by a mile or two, you start getting into more middle-class neighborhoods (to the west) but you’ve got miles of upper-middle and wealthy neighborhoods in the other directions.
#15 Wow! Enormously good point! I have 3 children with autism and they’re the most wonderful, loving, bright little human beings in the world! I’d rather give up my own existence than theirs! So you’re absolutely right: If one really is so delusional to believe in that anti-vaxx stuff then they’re also admitting that they’d rather gamble with their children’s lifes than having to put up with the challenges of parenting children with autism.
This post reminds me: I’m old enough to remember when the shoe department at Woodwards had these cool machines you could put your feet into and get an xray view of how your new shoes fit. Those machines are gone now. for obvious reasons. Refusing an xray your doctor recommends is just ignorant. Especially on the advice of your chiropractor. Sheesh.
#44
I don’t believe you for a minute.
But even assuming you’re for real: Don’t project your own death wish unto others! That is just horrible! We are parents currently fighting and struggling for our kids’ well-being and knowing our kids (and others’), it is well worth the while! During good periods they’re really enjoying life and have so much to contribute to the people around them and humanity as a whole!
Even if homosexuality is caused by whatever it is caused by, so fucking what?
Oh, man… I hardly ever read comments anywhere but DAMN. Watching “Tommy” devolve was absolutely delicious! Talk about /la reveal magnifico/… Snort. Perfectly lovely.