The Rosetta/Philae photos all make me recall that Apollo 11 headline from the Onion: “HOLY SHIT: MAN WALKS ON FUCKING MOON”. That thing there is a fucking comet. We landed hardware on a fucking comet! *hyperventilates*
consciousness razorsays
Moggie:
The Rosetta/Philae photos all make me recall that Apollo 11 headline from the Onion: “HOLY SHIT: MAN WALKS ON FUCKING MOON”. That thing there is a fucking comet. We landed hardware on a fucking comet! *hyperventilates*
Personally, the way things are going, I’m a little more impressed with the Hayabusa mission from a few years back. We kinda-sorta landed briefly, then brought samples back from a fucking asteroid!!!!11!!! If the little rover thingy had been released at the right time, that mission would’ve had all this and then some (assuming there’s no way to fix Philae’s problems). That is, unless comets are better than asteroids or something like that. Maybe they are.
ragdishsays
I know this has been done to death in sci-fi but what are your thoughts of an AI Philae landing on a comet, planet, asteroid, etc.. millions of miles away. Would it be ethical to send even a rudimentary AI probe let alone a Commander Data into the lonely abyss.
Tethyssays
“And at night I love to listen to the stars, it is like five hundred million little bells.” The little prince
Terskasays
Is that the tail streaming away on the right side of the sky in the photo?
consciousness razorsays
Terska, it’s still too far from the sun, so I’m pretty there’s no tail yet (not much of one, at least). That’s apparently the Milky Way in the background. That is, the camera’s pointed in the direction of the center of our galaxy, but of course all of the stars visible there are somewhere in our galaxy.
Callinectessays
I want to know if the photos are in colour, and there simply isn’t any, or if it has to use, say, night vision.
consciousness razorsays
Okay, I checked their site for a timeline, and it does look like there won’t be a tail until sometime next spring.
anymsays
2, consciousness razor:
Personally, the way things are going, I’m a little more impressed with the Hayabusa mission from a few years back. We kinda-sorta landed briefly, then brought samples back from a fucking asteroid!!!!11!!! If the little rover thingy had been released at the right time, that mission would’ve had all this and then some (assuming there’s no way to fix Philae’s problems). That is, unless comets are better than asteroids or something like that. Maybe they are.
I think orbiting a comet is something of an achievement; Hyabusa never actually orbited Itokawa, but travelled in a very close heliocentric orbit whilst nearby.
Returning a sample is pretty awesome, but it doesn’t necessarily say much about the asteroid as a whole. Because Rosetta carries a lot more in the way of sensors and experiments, I think (though I must confess I’m not certain) that a lot more useful science will result.
Philae is also a lot more capable than the tiny little Minerva lander… combined with Rosetta’s orbit, it means you can do stuff like CONSERT.
And unrelated to the comet itself, Rosetta has also done two asteroid flybys (21 lutetia and 2867 šteins) and peeked at a third (P/2010 A2) and taken part in the Deep Impact experiment also. Perhaps the weightings in your awesomeness metric are different from mine, but I’m more excited about Rosetta!
I wonder why it didn’t use an ion drive.
anymsays
(oh, and now I think of it… Rosetta is planned to spend almost a year observing the comet, so we’ll get a front-row view of what happens to it as it swings by the sun. That’ll be pretty neat, if everything goes okay.)
consciousness razorsays
I think orbiting a comet is something of an achievement; Hyabusa never actually orbited Itokawa, but travelled in a very close heliocentric orbit whilst nearby.
They solved harder equation, and maybe they needed some new tech to do that. Okay. I’m less interested in these technological or record-setting types of achievements than some people are I guess. I put a higher value on learning more stuff, even if it’s a relatively simple experiment. But….
Returning a sample is pretty awesome, but it doesn’t necessarily say much about the asteroid as a whole. Because Rosetta carries a lot more in the way of sensors and experiments, I think (though I must confess I’m not certain) that a lot more useful science will result.
That’s a good point. I wasn’t really considering what else Rosetta can do, which is silly; but that hasn’t happened yet, while a lot of the focus is about landing on this magnificent rock or getting pretty pictures. I guess I’m disappointed that Philae probably won’t be able to do more, but maybe what it already got is more useful scientifically. I don’t know, so I’ll retract my #2. Still, Hayabusa was good, and some people talk as if they’ve never heard of it.
disposable1says
anymsays
Hayabusa was good, and some people talk as if they’ve never heard of it.
Eh, out of the headlines therefore old news, so it may as well be forgotten ;-) Who even remembers what the mission that carried the Titan lander was called? or even the lander itself? That was plenty awesome. First landing on Titan, first landing on an extraterrestrial body further out than Mars (more than 30 years after the first mars landing, too), first mission to enter orbit around Saturn, ten years of amazing photography let alone actual genuine science. Still going, too.
anymsays
#12, disposable1
So now it’s OK to have a memorable image of the Philae lander that isn’t haranguing one of the people who put the damn thing there in the first place?
I note the gentleman in question has admitted what a poor choice he made, and apologised for it. Who are you expecting to appreciate your white-knighting?
rqsays
Callinectes
As one of the scientists Philae tweeted, comets just aren’t that colourful!
But this is beautiful. A chunk of rock, flying about in space, with human technology on it.
anbhealsays
Or would you rather be a mule?
Terskasays
I guess there is enough gravity from the comet to to allow the space craft to orbit? That is wild.
@Terska : I believe “orbit” may be a liberal usage of the word. I think Rosetta maneuvers in a triangular “orbit” around 67P using small thrusters occasionally. While 67P does have some gravity it is low enough that Philae bounced almost 1km high after a 1.0m/s contact and only came to rest on the 3rd contact. I don’t think 67P has enough gravitational force to hold an object the size of Rosetta in an actual orbit.
anymsays
#15, rq:
But this is beautiful. A chunk of rock, flying about in space, with human technology on it.
Terska @17: Yeah, 67P has a Hill sphere with radius in the hundreds of kilometres.
purestevil @19:
I don’t think 67P has enough gravitational force to hold an object the size of Rosetta in an actual orbit.
It does as long as Rosetta’s relative velocity isn’t too high. If it’s within a third to a half of the Hill sphere radius, it could even be a stable orbit. Not sure if it is in actual orbit now, or just making periodic thrusts between different hyperbolic escape trajectories.
And so I want, naturally, to defend this blameless man. And as for all those who have monstered him and convicted him in the kangaroo court of the web – they should all be ashamed of themselves.
For some reason, my facebook feed has lit up with people who are outraged at how badly poor Mr. Taylor has been treated. I despair :-(
Al Dentesays
ragdish @3
Would it be ethical to send even a rudimentary AI probe let alone a Commander Data into the lonely abyss.
On August 25, 2012, Voyager I entered interstellar space. In 2020 the batteries will finally be exhausted. In about 40,000 years, Voyager 1 will drift within 1.6 light-years of AC+79 3888, a star in the constellation of Camelopardalis. Is it ethical to last longer than humanity probably will? I think so.
petrandersays
Why don’t they make a shirt of that image instead!?
(oh, and now I think of it… Rosetta is planned to spend almost a year observing the comet, so we’ll get a front-row view of what happens to it as it swings by the sun. That’ll be pretty neat, if everything goes okay.)
That was my thought when I read PZ saying that the view is spectacular.
I don’t know how visible the tail will be from that close but it certainly has the potential to be very spectacular.
anymsays
Deep Impact got this picture of a comet developing jets as it warmed up… a high res video of that from right on top of the source should look quite special.
I think a more immediate question of ethics about AI in general is that of servitude. We create an AI… and then what? If it’s truly sentient, forcing it to do what we want, to serve our purposes and to take away its agency amounts to slavery. So sending it out into space doesn’t even enter the question until we fully explore what it means to bring a true AI (whatever that is) into existence.
Silisays
Be like?
Cold and breathless most likely.
petrandersays
*PLUG ALERT*
Regarding shirtgate, in case you guys forgotten it already, I discovered a really stupid cartoon on Tickled about it:
The Rosetta/Philae photos all make me recall that Apollo 11 headline from the Onion: “HOLY SHIT: MAN WALKS ON FUCKING MOON”. That thing there is a fucking comet. We landed hardware on a fucking comet! *hyperventilates*
Moggie:
Personally, the way things are going, I’m a little more impressed with the Hayabusa mission from a few years back. We kinda-sorta landed briefly, then brought samples back from a fucking asteroid!!!!11!!! If the little rover thingy had been released at the right time, that mission would’ve had all this and then some (assuming there’s no way to fix Philae’s problems). That is, unless comets are better than asteroids or something like that. Maybe they are.
I know this has been done to death in sci-fi but what are your thoughts of an AI Philae landing on a comet, planet, asteroid, etc.. millions of miles away. Would it be ethical to send even a rudimentary AI probe let alone a Commander Data into the lonely abyss.
“And at night I love to listen to the stars, it is like five hundred million little bells.” The little prince
Is that the tail streaming away on the right side of the sky in the photo?
Terska, it’s still too far from the sun, so I’m pretty there’s no tail yet (not much of one, at least). That’s apparently the Milky Way in the background. That is, the camera’s pointed in the direction of the center of our galaxy, but of course all of the stars visible there are somewhere in our galaxy.
I want to know if the photos are in colour, and there simply isn’t any, or if it has to use, say, night vision.
Okay, I checked their site for a timeline, and it does look like there won’t be a tail until sometime next spring.
2, consciousness razor:
I think orbiting a comet is something of an achievement; Hyabusa never actually orbited Itokawa, but travelled in a very close heliocentric orbit whilst nearby.
Returning a sample is pretty awesome, but it doesn’t necessarily say much about the asteroid as a whole. Because Rosetta carries a lot more in the way of sensors and experiments, I think (though I must confess I’m not certain) that a lot more useful science will result.
Philae is also a lot more capable than the tiny little Minerva lander… combined with Rosetta’s orbit, it means you can do stuff like CONSERT.
And unrelated to the comet itself, Rosetta has also done two asteroid flybys (21 lutetia and 2867 šteins) and peeked at a third (P/2010 A2) and taken part in the Deep Impact experiment also. Perhaps the weightings in your awesomeness metric are different from mine, but I’m more excited about Rosetta!
I wonder why it didn’t use an ion drive.
(oh, and now I think of it… Rosetta is planned to spend almost a year observing the comet, so we’ll get a front-row view of what happens to it as it swings by the sun. That’ll be pretty neat, if everything goes okay.)
They solved harder equation, and maybe they needed some new tech to do that. Okay. I’m less interested in these technological or record-setting types of achievements than some people are I guess. I put a higher value on learning more stuff, even if it’s a relatively simple experiment. But….
That’s a good point. I wasn’t really considering what else Rosetta can do, which is silly; but that hasn’t happened yet, while a lot of the focus is about landing on this magnificent rock or getting pretty pictures. I guess I’m disappointed that Philae probably won’t be able to do more, but maybe what it already got is more useful scientifically. I don’t know, so I’ll retract my #2. Still, Hayabusa was good, and some people talk as if they’ve never heard of it.
Hayabusa was good, and some people talk as if they’ve never heard of it.
Eh, out of the headlines therefore old news, so it may as well be forgotten ;-) Who even remembers what the mission that carried the Titan lander was called? or even the lander itself? That was plenty awesome. First landing on Titan, first landing on an extraterrestrial body further out than Mars (more than 30 years after the first mars landing, too), first mission to enter orbit around Saturn, ten years of amazing photography let alone actual genuine science. Still going, too.
#12, disposable1
I note the gentleman in question has admitted what a poor choice he made, and apologised for it. Who are you expecting to appreciate your white-knighting?
Callinectes
As
one of the scientistsPhilae tweeted, comets just aren’t that colourful!But this is beautiful. A chunk of rock, flying about in space, with human technology on it.
Or would you rather be a mule?
I guess there is enough gravity from the comet to to allow the space craft to orbit? That is wild.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS1OryN8UHk
:)
@Terska : I believe “orbit” may be a liberal usage of the word. I think Rosetta maneuvers in a triangular “orbit” around 67P using small thrusters occasionally. While 67P does have some gravity it is low enough that Philae bounced almost 1km high after a 1.0m/s contact and only came to rest on the 3rd contact. I don’t think 67P has enough gravitational force to hold an object the size of Rosetta in an actual orbit.
#15, rq:
http://pbfcomics.com/248
Terska @17: Yeah, 67P has a Hill sphere with radius in the hundreds of kilometres.
purestevil @19:
It does as long as Rosetta’s relative velocity isn’t too high. If it’s within a third to a half of the Hill sphere radius, it could even be a stable orbit. Not sure if it is in actual orbit now, or just making periodic thrusts between different hyperbolic escape trajectories.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/11234620/Dr-Matt-Taylors-shirt-made-me-cry-too-with-rage-at-his-abusers.html
Oh Boris.
For some reason, my facebook feed has lit up with people who are outraged at how badly poor Mr. Taylor has been treated. I despair :-(
ragdish @3
On August 25, 2012, Voyager I entered interstellar space. In 2020 the batteries will finally be exhausted. In about 40,000 years, Voyager 1 will drift within 1.6 light-years of AC+79 3888, a star in the constellation of Camelopardalis. Is it ethical to last longer than humanity probably will? I think so.
Why don’t they make a shirt of that image instead!?
That was my thought when I read PZ saying that the view is spectacular.
I don’t know how visible the tail will be from that close but it certainly has the potential to be very spectacular.
Deep Impact got this picture of a comet developing jets as it warmed up… a high res video of that from right on top of the source should look quite special.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Impact_%28spacecraft%29#mediaviewer/File:NASAHartley2Comet.jpg
ragdish #3
I think a more immediate question of ethics about AI in general is that of servitude. We create an AI… and then what? If it’s truly sentient, forcing it to do what we want, to serve our purposes and to take away its agency amounts to slavery. So sending it out into space doesn’t even enter the question until we fully explore what it means to bring a true AI (whatever that is) into existence.
Be like?
Cold and breathless most likely.
*PLUG ALERT*
Regarding shirtgate, in case you guys forgotten it already, I discovered a really stupid cartoon on Tickled about it:
I thought I would try my hand at this comic game (matt taylor / commet landing)
The cartoon was so annoyingly stupid that I fired up on MS Paint and Photofiltre and made a better version of it:
Shirtgate – The actual discussion
I apologize for this shameless plugging and near-spamming, but my cartoon is currently losing the like-war… :-(