I told you some guy called me for an interview about the horrible crime committed on the UMM campus: the presumed ‘theft’ of some free newspapers from a conservative organization. They say I now advocate censorship of conservative student newspaper, which is a fine twist on the affair.
Their description of the newspaper was particularly enlightening about Fox dishonesty.
That particular edition included a satire on affirmative action. The professor said the paper was mocking minority students.
Not quite accurate. I pointed out that their mockery crossed a rather nasty line; it had gone beyond mere ‘satire’ into the realm of advocating racism. It included direct accusations that faculty and administrators were racist because they endorsed affirmative action and were committed to correcting historical injustices. And this was the final straw for me, that it included:
…a crime scene photo of Trayvon Martin’s dead face, with the caption
Trayvon Martin, victim of racism and fascism, and what does [administrator] have to say about it? Nothing. Not a single thing.And with that, they have crossed a line. Free speech is one thing, making light of murder and claiming that our chancellor of student affairs excuses it is another. Using dead black boys to “satirize” equality is contemptible. I would advocate the disposal of their flyers if the Ku Klux Klan started papering our campus, and likewise, the North Star has worn out its welcome and must go. Treat their scattered papers as hate-filled trash and dispose of it appropriately.
If Todd Starnes thinks old-fashioned race-baiting, libel against faculty and staff, flaunting the face of murdered black people to intimidate and horrify students, and lying about crimes is merely an implicit part of the conservative agenda, then yes, I advocate kicking such behavior off campus altogether. But then, I guess that’s what conservativism has become nowadays.
We had an incident a while back in which racist signs were posted in one of the dorms; there was no question but that they were disposed of and an effort made to discover who was responsible. The North Star newspaper is simply the fancier version of those crudities, and should be removed from campus in the same way; and we already, in this case, know who was responsible.
Two other points: I can find old copies of the North Star in the science building hallways, still — copies from several months ago. The University Register, which is the official campus paper, gets routinely cleaned up each week — I don’t think I’d be able to find a copy of last week’s paper anywhere. I question whether this ‘theft’ even occurred, and wonder whether this is just a publicity stunt for self-martyred Breitbart wanna-bes; I also wonder whether their threats are inhibiting people from doing standard clean up around campus.
Finally, just a hint to the North Star: if you have to slap a great big warning on every issue and just about every page that your newspaper may contain satire, you aren’t doing satire right.
“Satire” just simply does not belong to the authoritarian mind. It is wholly a tool of the liberal/ progressive. Simply put: Satire only works when your PUNCHING UP. NEVER when you’re punching DOWN. Q to the E to the motherfuckin’ D
The End
and ‘you’re’, not your. ug
There are somewhat subtle differences between satire and mockery I suppose. Definately too subtle to be distiguished by conservatives. They regularly conflate the two…
The piece is basically quoting you out of context (actually some of the best bits from your blogposts) to look like you’re bad-mouthing (shock! horror!) all young conservatives, before finally ending with
Talk about style, they done did you hard and put you in your place.
You spoke to the media about a case that is currently being litigated. You spoke to a media outlet that you KNEW would be hostile to you. I have fuck all sympathy for the fact that now you are being made to look stupid. You WERE stupid.
Damn. The comments there already make me feel sick.
So their entire argument is that your statement:
Is advocating stealing stacks of their papers? “Scattered papers”, Fox News. Advocating that if you get a paper, you don’t bother with it and ditch not. Not advocating grabbing all of the papers and throwing them out. Learn 2 literate.
Also interesting how Fox News changes the narrative: North Star blames PZ of throwing out the papers himself. Fox News knows that this is stupid and instead tries to strain their eyes to find a way that PZ could be blame for inciting other people into throwing out right-wing student newspapers. Because on a college campus, where liberal young folks dwell, a free conservative rag that is known for racism and other shit would be left completely alone if it weren’t for the words of an angry professor. Suuuuuure.
Quote mining to make it sound like their intended target is insulting a whole group of people instead of a specific collection of assholes? That doesn’t sound a bit like Faux News. Glad to see your little swipe at them made it into the “story” though ;)
donalbain:
First, I am failing to see the part where PZ is asking for sympathy.
Second, I am failing to see the part where Fox News made PZ look stupid. Even with Fox News’s own selective, cherry-picked, and hand-spun narrative, they don’t have jack-shit.
donalbain #5
PZ is being made to look stupid??‽!?
@donalbain. Where the hell did you get the idea that PZ directly communicated with FOX ‘News’? Is that what you’re implying?
Oh, man. Did you see the book the author of the Fox News thing wrote? I don’t think he’s even capable of being reasonable about something like this. Not really surprising.
It’s here.
And yeah, it’s pretty great that they published your poke at them, too.
This is the standard low-journalism technique of asking a question intended to fuel the ire of their readership while simultaneously letting the publisher slither past any potential charge of libel.
The answer to such questions is always ‘no’.
ashleybell #11
Well, there was that post a few days ago where PZ said he received a call from a Fox Affiliate and gave an interview.
Comes with the territory.
PZ Myers needs to take lessons in paranoia. The rightwing xians are vicious haters and liars. That is all they have.
1. A lot of scientists get death threats. PZ Myers has gotten more than anyone. During one incident, he got 100.death.threats.in.one.day.
There will be more. There was one a month ago tossed onto the board.
2. He can expect more attacks and lies from the rightwing nuts and fundie xians. It’s all they have. It’s all they can do.
It just shows how scared they are now that their religion is dying and that Dr. Myers is becoming a well known public figure and leader of the Forces of Light in the eternal battle between Light and Dark.
True.
Just about all of us said, What, huh!!! You know they are going to quote mine whatever you say and just lie anyway. There is zero to gain by doing that.
What he should have said is, “Sorry I’m busy, here is the phone number of my lawyer, CLICK.” They are still going to lie but that is all they can do.
PS These guys are James O’Keefe wannabes. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more of them out there, gunning for PZ. That lessons in paranoia thing again.
Wow. That author is a real winner!
“According to Starnes, this means that ‘the traditional nuclear family is on the verge of disaster. And once the nuclear family explodes, the United States should brace for a cultural Armageddon.'”
On attributing a case of banning prayer in schools to a Marcos Perez:
And finally
This man’s bread and butter seems to be either dishonestly stripping away context or using outright fabrications in order to cry a river over Teh Persecution of Christians and Conservatives. Right-winger is right-wing.
Hope that comes with a nice cape.
Jet pack and laser pistol.
Light vs Dark is so passé. Also, there are some pretty grey characters on the “Light” side…
The new faction “Forces of Clear” are way cooler.
The Forces of Tentacle against the Forces of Fecal.
Hey, people, you didn’t think I knew Fox Jerk would distort and lie? Of course I did.
I’m just not afraid of them.
Must have been the mother of all slow news days for this to hit the airwaves.
Donalbain–
So, a dose of “I told you so” combined with “and they’re right about you,” while you pretend that an organization that twisted PZ’s words that much would have dropped the story if he said “no comment,” rather than twisting that and/or his previous words on the subject? I suspect they would have quoted his accusers and said something like “Myers refused to talk to us, but his blog says [quotemine].”
Not talking about an impending or actual lawsuit may be good legal advice, but I doubt it would have protected him from this.
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side!!!
That word is occupied by $cientology.
raven #16
I agree. I have to admit, when I read that post I shook my head and found it frustrating. PZ can do what he wants, it is most definitely his choice, but I really think he needs to start controlling the message a lot better, and maybe get some professional advice. Yes, these people are pathetic wannabes, but having the truth on you side does not make you immune from pathetic wannabes, these people are good at being a nuisance, they are vindictive assholes and are happy to try to make people’s lives miserable.
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100509215506/oots/images/c/c0/Fox_news.gif
@PZ: I think you’re missing a blockquote around the third paragraph:
which I believe is a quote from Faux News. Unless you are in the habit of referring to yourself as “the professor”.
My feeling is that if leaving literature unattended in a public place is a form of free speech then so is taking that literature and dropping it in a trash can. It doesn’t matter if it’s one Chick Tract in bus station men’s room, a small stack of Watchtowers in a laundromat or a kiosk full of free newspapers.
The concept of clarity commandeered by obscurants for financial gain. Quelle surprise.
Vicki
They would probably just take the route of calling PZ a coward, and then pull a Billy Lane Craig/Clint Eastwood and have a flailing, incompetent argument against an empty chair.
The op-ed is completely awesome. It would have been perfectly at home in The Onion or on Colbert.
There’s a couple comments on the fox news article. Apparently someone says that being a godless liberal is the “worst of the worst.” Practically flattery.
heh.
jhuger, I think that taking a kiosk full of free newspapers would qualify as theft of service in many jurisdictions. (Not that one would necessarily be prosecuted for it.)
Congratulations to PZ! If Faux News starts
lyingreporting about you, that means you are having an impact.Todd Starnes’ entire career appears to be dedicated to finding any incident he can lie, spin, and twist into a liberal government attack on conservative Christians, and when that fails, just flat out making them up. He’s got a history of it. Those who believe him are going to believe him no matter what he says or who he interviews or doesn’t interview.
A selection of Starne’s greatest hits from the Friendly Atheist:
My personal favorite: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/04/02/todd-starnes-has-another-story-of-christian-persecution-doesnt-say-that-victims-father-is-promoting-his-book/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/02/06/todd-starnes-of-fox-news-lies-again-a-school-did-not-cancel-merica-monday-because-it-would-offend-non-americans/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/12/07/todd-starnes-of-fox-news-lies-again-a-texas-school-did-not-ban-christmas-trees-and-the-colors-red-green/
Yeah, he’s got quite a track record of this shtick.
Full of win!
anteprepro @ 17
Let me get this right: he’s whining because a Christian newspaper (so a business, I assume) got audited?
What a fucking idiot.
I think this bit was my favourite:
PZ Myers: “Conservative students here trend towards reason and rationality.”
Starnes: “Myers called young conservatives assholes.”
I’m not sure how such blatant dissonance escaped him.
Sneery O’Leary even took a shot at PZ, with her usual clueless irrelevance:
http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwinism/did-pz-myers-have-anything-to-do-with-vanishing-newspapers/
Then there’s this comment:
There’s no name given, only 3rd person pronouns, but the only person I can reasonably conclude is being referred to would be PZ. This is just bizarre.
Jacob Schmidt @43:
BWAHAHAHAHA! Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m almost positive PZ’s son is a military officer.
Attorneys generally don’t want clients talking to the media about pending or threatened litigation. But there are exceptions, and one of them is where your adversary’s entire purpose is to get you to shut up. In that case, shutting up is effectively an unconditional surrender. If you’re going to give your opponent everything that he wants, then you might as well just negotiate a settlement agreement and get a release of liability in exchange for your shutting up. (And then expect to be threatened by every other bully who doesn’t like something you said, of course.)
That goes for the Northstar creeps too.
By making false accusations and dragging in the hired christofascist slugs of Fox Nonews, you can tell they have given up on any legal actions. Even with their goon law firm, the ADF.
They don’t have a case but they can still lie
Which has nothing to do with PZ Myers although he is trying to imply that without stating it.
PZ Myers’ son went through ROTC and is currently a serving military officer.
I expect that’s basically the ADF’s strategy. They’re not really particularly interested in winning in court, only in intimidation and media campaigns. I expect they have Starnes on speed dial, and vice-versa.
Next of Fox News – Did professor Myers kick a puppy on his way to work this morning?
I suspect that this is as fictional as the rest of that comment.
Fucking lies and distortions from beginning to end. It’s pretty much a given that if Fox reports it, the opposite is true.
This is the Swift Boating tactic.
Just make up lies and keep repeating them over and over.
They do this often.
The latest one is from Cliven Bundy’s ranch in Nevada. Supposedly Reid, the Illuminati, the Space Reptiles, and the Chinese really want to take over his land and put in a solar power plant.
This has been repeated dozens of times on dozens of rightwing nut websites.
It’s completely false. There was a proposed solar power plant but it was 90 miles away on the other side of the state and cancelled for economic reasons.
PS That supposed MN national guard story above may well be a complete fabrication as well. Lies are one of their sacraments.
From my quick scan it appears that at this point, Uncommon decent is just Sal Cordova talking to himself.
@Raven
When your starting point is the Big Book of Bronze Age Bullshit and they don’t let you kill anyone who questions it anymore what can else can you do eh.
The publisher of Northstar is one John Geiger.
As a US citizen I had set up to read a display on my computer which I had turned on to do. And saw on the news that this piece of garbage shot and killed 3 people at a Jewish community center to rid the world of Jews in Overland Park. This man is mentally unstable and lucky I wasn’t forced to defend myself had he put a hand on me or fired at me (because I’m on the west coast). I could tell he wanted to, but I’m 6’2″ (6’3″ in my boots) 225 lbs, definitely made him think twice about it. I would have even offered him a place to sit down and a glass of water. But then the police came and arrested him while he was shouting Heil Hitler.
See what I did there?
Mmmm, fancy crudites… Oh wait. What a difference a single letter makes…
The guy claiming I screamed at a National Guard recruiter? Lying.
To be fair, the British satirical magazine Private Eye used to say something like ‘everything inside black borders is true’. And I suppose you could say, “who would take the rest of it at face value?” My gran does, but she’s got dementia.
It seems to me that Fox and North Star don’t get that freedom of speech doesn’t mean you get a pass on the consequences of what you say. This means that, if you print a rag that is full of hate-filled ‘satire’ in extremely poor taste, to put it mildly, you don’t get the right to prevent people taking your rag and throwing it in the bin, unless they actually steal it to do so (and, even then, that’s only wrong because they’ve committed theft, not because of any violation of freedom of speech). That is the consequences of printing such material – people find it only fit for the bin, and they exercise their right of freedom of expression by putting it there.
zmidponk @58
How can something that’s given away for free be stolen?
@Al Dente, 59
Possibly only the first copy is free. PZ had commented in some previous post that they’ve now added text on the cover of the paper that says all subsequent copies are $5.
But has it been shown that any copies have gone missing, at all?
How do these creeps know their papers are missing? Aren’t newspaper stands supposed to be depleted as the day goes by? Does their publication normally sit and rot unread in the newspaper stands? Are they trying to charge for this rag?
Leave it to Faux News to make a mountain over a molehill. As someone commented earlier, it must have been a slooooow news day.
I remember the student advisor for my school paper telling me about a former female editor and a slow news day. It seems the students were protesting something (can’t remember what) and the local press arrived. On the spur of the moment she decided to coed the men’s bathroom in the basement of one of our buildings. Apparently the local TV channel actually followed her into the bathroom where a highly embarrassed male student is seen in the report.
Of course, the whole incident had a teaching moment in that she told us that as reporters we cover the news; we don’t make it. The idiots at the Morris North Star would be wise and possibly grow up if they followed this adage.
@56
Are there even National Guard recruiters there for you to scream at if that was your bent?
The whole story smells strongly of glurge.
My, oh my. The hurt fee-fees from using free speech to call racists, racists.
Look racists, don’t want to be called out, trying shutting the fuck up. That way, since you say nothing, others can’t criticized the content of your remarks.
You don’t want to shut the fuck up? Well then, you had better be prepared for your incoherent and fractally wrong racism to be called out in no uncertain terms.
There is one bona fide factual statement in the article – the beginning:
‘University of Minnesota at Morris biology professor Dr. Paul Zachary Myers doesn’t like young Republicans. In fact, he called them “assholes.”’
Translation: You can’t handle the truth.
The only reason I can think of why PZ would have talked to Fox is that he must have been getting bored with his current trolls, and wanted to liven up the place.
Terska@62: Yes, newspapers are supposed to be depleted slowly over the course of the day/week whatever the publication interval is. My impression though, is that the complaint is that they were dropped off at, for example, 8 AM and gone by 9 AM or some other interval short enough to be suspicious, or that they were dropped off at the distribution point, but disappeared before they were actually put out for distribution.
So an art student had a paper mache product due, saw a stack of student newspapers and thought “perfect” and walked off with them all (and left the smell of art solvent behind). That’s something I can easily see myself at a young age doing. I tended to view papers (and the sodas in the cafeteria) as inexhaustible materials and it never would have occurred to me it would be considered wrong.
Or maybe some eager liberal student *did* take PZ’s advice and decided to steal the stack. So what? No-one can seriously take that “Treat their scattered papers as hate-filled trash and dispose of it appropriately” as an foreseeable incitement to commit crime? Seriously? And he did say “scattered”. It’s not like one stack of papers going rogue is going to prevent anyone determined from access to the rag if one really wants it.
The national guard recruiter who claimed I screamed at him? He now has someone backing him up: Barbara Drescher.
Skeptics. So damned skeptical.
I wonder why meeting me is evidence for that behavior. Did I scream at Drescher?
As a UofMN alumnae who went on to Columbia and Harvard to further study chemistry and then nanofabrication, I can only scoff at such an outspoken political hack now attacking half of the adult and young adult population of his country. What sort of “scientist” deserves any positive legacy as he tries to censor the voices of the only political party that is helping to expose the biggest scientific fraud in human history? You speak of skeptics? So *be* one. Minnesota has one of the three oldest American thermometer records, and like the others, its unwavering linearity utterly falsifies climate models upon which all climate alarm is based upon:
http://s6.postimg.org/uv8srv94h/id_AOo_E.gif
Tide gauges, too, show utterly no deviation from their natural low emissions era trend:
http://postimg.org/image/uszt3eei5/
Whereas your progressive liberal friends, herr professor, they use outright fraud to create climate alarm:
http://s6.postimg.org/jb6qe15rl/Marcott_2013_Eye_Candy.jpg
It is from *science* and the backlash against a part of it that your ilk helps enable, that your whole grievance-based near Soviet level political machine will topple, for people don’t like discovering that they’ve been lied to.
Yawn denialist appealing to authority, theirs. Yawn, boring denialist with citations to the peer reviewed scientific literature. Which is the real authority, and backs AGW.
Dang, meant to say without citations. *preview can be your friend*
Nik from Nyc,
You’re a liar:
1) PZ Myers does not and never has advocated censorship.
2) Anthropogenic climate change is not a fraud, but consensus science. Right-wing fuckwits like you have to deny the science because it undermines your “free markets solve everything” drivel, but when you allege fraud, you are, without a scintilla of evidence to support you, lying about thousands of honest scientists. Evidently, you have no shame at all.
You are also a fool: evidently you think no-one will bother to check on your sources. But here we can see that the rate of sea-level rise has, contrary to your lies, greatly increased in the last two decades. We can also see that the global surface temperature shows a far from linear pattern: rather, a slight decline up to 1910, a period of warming to around 1949 a hiatus to around 1970, then a renewed rise. This pattern is well accounted for if, and only if, all known contributors to temperature change, including the increased greenhouse gases in the atmospher, are included. Furthermore, we can see the decline in both sea and land ice. If you want to educate yourself, you could start here, where expert climate scientists discuss climate science. But you won’t, because you’re a liar and a fool.
Why do you address an American university professor as “herr professor”? He’s not German, nor working at a German university, and if he was, the title would be “Herr Professor Doctor”, since the upper-case letters are required, and PZ Myers has a doctorate. But of course an ignorant numpty like you thinks the mere hint of being German – therefore Nazi!!!1!elebenty!! – is witty, or makes some sort of political point.
In being a liar and a fool you are, of course, only too typical of today’s Republican Party.
“1949” should be “1940” in #74.
Minnesota has tides?
@chigau:
Minnesotans come in, Minnesotans go out.
Can’t explain that.
Barbara Drescher also linked to that Todd Starnes written piece. And Justin Vacula retweeted her. Funny how these extremely skeptical atheists are willing to use the words of godbotherers if it fits the narrative.
Heh. And then climate science, right?
….right? And what does any of your blather have to do with the topic at hand?
a·lum·na
əˈləmnə/
noun
plural noun: alumnae
1. a female graduate or former student of a particular school, college, or university.
Where I come from, no university lets you in when your Latin is that bad. Columbia? Harvard? Seriously?
…Read a few more polls.
What?
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
You studied chemistry? How is that possible without studying physical or analytical chemistry?
What sort of scientist are you? Are you seriously trying to do statistics with a sample size of 1?!?
…That’s breathtakingly stupid. The basic shape of the hockey stick from that old paper from 1998 has been found again and again, in different datasets, ever since.
A scientist wouldn’t talk about a topic without trying to understand it first.
Actually Doktor with k, but it’s hardly ever spelled out… and it’s not usually included when talking to someone, only when writing about them.
Nik FromNyc is trying to prove to us that everyone to the left of her is actively, dangerously evil. She’s scared out of her wits and wants everyone else to be, too.
Ignorance produces fear, and fear produces conservativism.