This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly.
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Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly.
Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread
Oh, man, I missed it too. I’m sorry, Quodlibet. : (
Ha. Exactly. I’m happy to have a couple pairs that are actually reasonably comfortable. They’re not the most beautiful ones I’ve got, but they are great.
bahahahaha I love this idea.
KevinKat:
I’m so sorry you have to work sick. I hope you can get some good rest after.
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Hair: My dark German heritage keeps my lower legs in dark hair, and my Swedish heritage keeps my arms and thighs in light hair. Weird.
@Portia:
Sad thing is I’m going to have to tell my girlfriend I can’t go to our date night tonight cause I’m feeling ill T^T
KevinKat:
Damn damn double damn : ( Any chance your date could change into a snuggle-and-watch-a-movie thing?
@Portia:
Maybe, but is it wise to cuddle when one is feeling sick?
I suppose not. : / Any idea what’s causing the sick feeling?
My condolences, Quodlibet. : (
— — — — — — —
Unusual reaction eschews high temperatures and water to lock carbon dioxide away http://phys.org/news/2012-08-unusual-reaction-eschews-high-temperatures.html#nRlv
— — — — — — —
Pilot plant to trial new carbon capture technology that converts CO2 into bricks http://phys.org/news/2013-08-trial-carbon-capture-technology-co2.html
@Portia:
No, just completely meh right now. I’m hot and I have a headache and my stomach is all churny.
Okay, this is kind of random, but I got a kick out of it.
My town has an upcoming referendum on a proposal for a “slots parlor” – a mini casino. This is pretty controversial, and many front lawns are sprouting signs with the word “NO” or “YES”.
As I drove home yesterday, I passed a house with a hand-lettered yard sign: “NOT SURE”.
kevinkat,
for when you get home, i would suggest a cup of hot chocolate and early bedtime.
I’m sorry you’re not feeling well, KevinKat. :(
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I’M MOVING! The contract for the new apartment is in the room with me right now so barring anything unforeseen, like spontaneous contract combustion, it will be signed tonight by all necessary parties and sent off tomorrow. We get our new keys on Sunday, which is good because my husband starts classes in our new city on Monday. He’ll have a nearby floor to sleep on now. And we’ve made arrangements for movers to come on the 14th. This means that for the next 2 1/2 weeks I will be attempting to get all the packing done mostly by myself, which is scary, but I DON’T CARE BECAUSE I’M MOVING!
Did I mention I’m moving? :D
The new place has a balcony, is perched on top of a “mountain” with a great view, has a nearby tram stop, a laundry room for which the key won’t mysteriously disappear every few weeks, a convenience store in the building, a caretaker on-site, and (surprisingly) a garbage chute. YES! Oh, and instead of living in an isolated town of 8000, I will be living in a city of 500,000.
Parrowing:
That’s so exciting!!!! I’m so happy for you!
Get well soon, KevinKat
Yay for Parrowing
Bicarbonate
Anthony K. used to go by the Nym of Brownian which went along with the following meme:
And I have no clue if that line is ever moving, I’ve been standing here for a looooong time.
Parrowing,
congrats on moving! New place sounds great!
@Giliell #12
As in Brownian movement ? Every which way and then some other ways ?
Was once quite my style and also plurisexuals were always so much better in bed anyway any way. So yay for the miracle of always gay.
I am averse, however, to paperwork and no longer able.
It’s like the scene in Brazil where the paper eats Robert De Niro. Paperwork takes a toll on all of us…
Just apropros of nothing:
I had a very weird (although very short) dream tonight which must come from reading too much FTB concerning social justice and stuff. It was a dialogue between Jim, the slave from Huck Finn, and his friends (supposedly Huck and Tom, although that was not too clear).
Jim tried to convince them that they were prejudiced because of his race, which they denied. And then he said “But you insist that I always wear black clothes, and you wear any color you like. Isn’t that racism?” And one of them answered “No, that is very logical: Black people wear black clothes, non-black people wear non-black clothes.” And while thinking “ouch” during the dream, I woke up.
I think the argument is worthy of some of the things we read here regularly, isn’t it?
Quodlibet- I am very sorry for your loss. :(
sonderval- Funny you mention that. I was going to ask people if they dream about deep rifts or FTB. I seem to regularly. One of the last ones was I bought a house in MN and PZ and his wife came over as a housewarming. I served his wife salted fish. I remarked that if it weren’t for global warming, I wouldn’t have moved to MN and I am glad I’ll be able to re-experience some cold winters from my youth in Ohio.
@Sonderval #16
FtB gives me strange dreams too. After the Crying White Ally/racist thread, I dreamed my mother was a black woman named “Amina” who had a vitamin C deficiency (my mother is white). Then she turned white, young, got lost and was running through subway/metro corridors calling me and I couldn’t find her.
So, I have a lot of family stuff going on all of a sudden. My mom (who lives with and cares for my grandpa along with her husband) thinks my grandpa is dying. My brother wants me to help look after his 3 year old daughter who is feverish, while he gets a vasectomy that I can’t mention to anyone as the reason I am bailing out of the trip with my mom to Tennessee (Popsy (her self chosen nickname) the 3 year old was going to go along as well but, well, fever) and so all of my plans are suddenly ascatter. I think I’ve got it worked out that I will hang out with Popsy and we will take care of Papa while my mom and her husband is gone for the few days. This gets me out of my brother and his wife’s way, along with poor sick little girl. Also takes the burden off Aunt and Uncle who were to be caring for Grandpa during the few days, which is difficult right now because Uncle fell off a roof last week and broke his arm, and Aunt’s health problems make caring for him alone enough of a difficulty.
Whew.
Hang in there, Portia.
Thanks, Beatrice, Portia, and Giliell!
*
Portia:
This:
sounds about right. Wow, that’s a lot of stuff going on. It’s too bad you won’t be able to go on the trip. I bet it’ll be nice to spend some time with Popsy. Hope she feels better soon!
*
I just realized that I should probably ask this question here (sewing machine question alert):
Two Christmases ago I received a sewing machine. I was so scared of trying it out that I waited until my mom visited from the US to get started, but she showed me how to set it up and off I went practicing and messing about with different stitches. A day or two after she left, I attempted a very small project- one which I could have easily hand sewn and probably should have but I wanted practice on the machine- re-sewing a label back onto a shirt in a less bothersome spot.
Something about this did not sit well with the machine. I kept trying and most attempts, the thread would appear as normal on the top of the label but when I turned it over, no thread would have gone through from the bottom. Other times the thread just bunched up. I went back to my practice cloth and had the same problem. I rethreaded the machine several times and I’m fairly certain it’s not happening due to the machine being threaded poorly. I wonder if it’s possible I busted my needle by sewing too near to the stabilizing pin I had in the label, but I can’t see any damage to the needle.
I feel terrible because the machine was a very expensive gift and I haven’t used it since, but I’m so scared to mess something else up and I don’t have the money to bring it in somewhere just to be told that the problem is something very minor (nor do I have a way to carry the machine someplace else or any idea where to find a place that fixes sewing machines). Does anyone have any idea what the problem might be?
Also, sorry to hear about your grandpa, Portia :(
Parrowing- It’s been a long time since I’ve used one, but have you tried different tensions?
Parrowing:
Thanks. Mom thinks he’s different than ever before in his weakness lately. We’ll see what happens. He’s 92, he talks about dying all the time. Mostly in a passive aggressive way though, ha.
Re: Spending time with Popsy, I’m actually selfishly gleeful about the possibility of having her all to myself for so many days. Of course, I’m really disappointed not to go on the trip and even more disappointed on my mom’s behalf that she doesn’t get the joy of taking Popsy along. It’s to visit Stepdad’s family down there, and he sooo adores Popsy and loves to show off her amazing little personality and smartness and everything about her. So that’s making me sad. Sad too that I’m disappointing my mom by not going along (we miss each other a lot living in different states), especially since I had to come up with a very vague but not untrue explanation. : p I told my brother I’d tell her that he and his wife “Just need some time” which is code for “they’re having problems again” or something, and he said “Yeah, she’ll come up with whatever story she wants anyway.” He derides her a lot like that…I like mom a lot more than my siblings do. : p I said “The bottom line is, she’ll respect that and not need more explanation.” He agreed with me on that point, which was good.
Wow, didn’t mean to go on a tirade about Portia’s Family Issues but it feels good to have it. :)
I have to take my sewing machine into the fix it place, and I feel your pain about confusion. I am terrible with sewing machines. : p
My mom lives by a gorgeous lake and my aunt is 4 miles away with a lovely in ground pool, and Popsy has always been a Water Baby. We’re gonna have a great time, in spite of it all. (My brother says she’s sick enough that they don’t want her to go on a long trip and probably aggravate it, but it doesn’t sound like she’s too sick to enjoy gallivanting with her Aunt Ki (the nickname she picked for me :) ) )
And, all this means that I can leave tomorrow morning instead of tonight. Much better time to drive 5.5 hours.
Ok, back to getting ready.
Thanks for letting me get that stuff off my chest.
“Is it okay if I talk to a reporter about the lawsuit?”
“No.”
*facepalm*
Thread tension is the problem with the sewing machine. Most likely, you need to adjust the tension screw on the part that holds the bobbin thread.
Happy AROTE* alls – not a lot to say, just missing the open threads on Shakesville during their vacation, thought I’d drop in here and say hey. (waves) Been putzing about at FtB since about November of last year, but first time I’ve come in.
I have to phone the local rent bank and see if they can help me out this month; next month I should get some money back from the feds that will mean I am good for October and onward, but this month all I’ve got is my OW** and its plain-stupid clawback. They take dollar for dollar off your cheque – so, I made $200 in the last period, so my cheque is down $200, and yes, this basically means if I can’t make over $600 in a month, i may as well do nothing at all; thank fuck they’re changing this next month, after too many years, just in time for me to need the help, lucky me.
Of course, phoning people I don’t know and asking for things feels about as easy as a one-handed rock-climbing competition. But I’m going to do it, because the alternative is getting on the bus and going down there, and on a grey and rainy day, that’s beyond my back’s ability to take.
Why can’t the government and social agencies get with the times and contact us telepathically? It’d be so much easier, sheesh.
Today is also the 32nd anniversary of my dad being killed (my sister and I, 12 and 15 at the time, survived), electrocuted while swimming with us at a friend’s place in South Lake Tahoe. It’s hard to believe I’m 12 years older than my father ever got. Just feels weird.
Thankfully, I’m having some slight upturn in my depression-handling ability. Having the application in process to get on disability support, long overdue, is so stress-relieving, it makes me wonder how long it’s been since I wasn’t stressed out of my mind. I actually did some painting last night and the night before, and it’s been three years since I picked up a brush before that.
Spent my time on the bus yesterday nailing down a few more kanji in my ongoing “learn Japanese writing before i croak” thing. I think I’m up to about 220 now, reliably, and maybe 100 more I can usually remember in context. Of course, basic adult literacy in Japan is two thousand kanji. Sigh. It’s weird being illiterate in a language; I’m glad it’s not one I need to function.
Sympathies and congratulations extended to the above as warrants ’em.
* “AROTE” is “arbitrary rotation of the Earth”, a Shakesville term for “your local diurnal-nocturnal cycle”, a recognition that we tend to be from literally around the world. :)
** Ontario Works, the Orwellian euphemism for welfare here since the appalling Tory government of the mid-90s.
Turns out I was wrong about the ‘not a lot to say’ thing. Sorry. :)
CaitieCat:
*hugs* if desired, and hello, good to see you here. I’m so sorry to hear about your rent troubles and your father’s passing, though it was so many years ago. Stick around, say as much as you like :)
Um, no G Pierce. I will try. I should clarify (if it wasn’t already very clear) that I have no idea what I’m doing and therefore troubleshooting will be sloooow going for me, but it helps to have different suggestions. Thanks :).
*
Portia:
Good luck getting ready for the drive. It does sound like you’ll have a fun time.
I like hearing about other people’s families. It gives me an opportunity to reassess what I think about my own family. Not in a comparison type of way. More in a, “That’s a new way to think about things,” way. Thank you for that :).
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Lynna:
Thanks! Between you and G Pierce, I guess I was right to ask the question here. Now if only I’d thought of that 8 months ago…
Pat Robertson has wandered further afield, leaving even his followers somewhat aghast. Robertson said, “You know what they do in San Francisco, some in the gay community there they want to get people so if they got the stuff [HIV/AIDs] they’ll have a ring, you shake hands, and the ring’s got a little thing where you cut your finger.”
Link.
Maddow Blog link for coverage of Pat Robertson making the claim that gays in San Francisco cut people to infect them with HIV.
Thanks for making me feel welcome here after I sort of barged in. :-)
And thanks for the kind words about my little cat. She had a good life, safe and well-loved, and she returned the love more and more as she grew older. She liked Jarlsberg and hiding in out-of-the-way places and chasing little moths and eating them. She was always polite, though very shy. She fit my lap and my neck exactly. She smelled good.
Sympathy & grog to Quodlibet.
Conga rats to Parrowing.
Recognition of a complicated situation which has both plusses and minuses to Portia… excuse me, Ki.
Support to CaitieCat.
Quodlibet:
We all barged in at some point or another :)
CD:
Ha, thank you : )
Oh, crap, I don’t have a barge, I just sort of cane-walked in. Can I stay anyway? ;)
Thanks for supportive words, loungers. I think I’m near enough the surface of the Great Dark Deep that I can actually get some warmth from them. :)
When I lay awake at night, I can hear the barges slowly chugging down the river. Barges are soothing to me :)
Hmm, so I will need one then.
How about if I just have a picture of Raphael Sbarge nearby? Is that close enough?
*googles Raphael Sbarge*
Ha! That’s funny, I was just wacthing a show with him in it.
Hey, maybe that was him chugging down the river.
If I were any good at photoshop, this post would be a link to a photo of his face on a tugboat.
Barges, walking, pish posh.
I used the Epoch: image
KevinKat:
ha! :)
@CaitieCat:
I believe the verb for which you are looking is “gimped”.
Ah, the faces on the TABs around one refers to oneself as “gimping” … Priceless.
LOL, nice one Crip Dyke. :D
I had a social worker ask me yesterday, “how does your disability affect your life?” And the first thing I thought was, “Well, how would I know? I’m living this one with the disability, not some other life where I don’t have it. It’s been so long with it that I don’t really think of it as anything unusual anymore, it’s just always there.
It’s just a bit weird, y’know? I would have to have a point of comparison to be able to answer it, and I don’t have any.
I recently had a doc ask me how event X would have unfolded differently if I didn’t have self-hating intrusive thoughts.
Umm, yeah. If things were different? They would be different. Seriously. I mean it. You can write that down, doctor!
Republican and Mormon Moments of Madness, big government category.
Deseret News link.
Among his other qualifications, Kaysville Republican Rep. Brad Wilson, who sponsored the legislation last year, is on the Construction Industry Advisory Council for Brigham Young University
Especially not Mattir…
That’s half of the joke! :-)
Actually about brownies. Special ones. :-)
Basic spelling would be great, too. “Low-reading skills”? Skills of low reading? I stumbled.
Hugs to CatieCat and Quodlibet.
Parrowing – definitely sounds like the tension. Many machines have a turn knob with numbers from 1-9, that’s the tension knob. Others make it more difficult. Best bet is to try to look for the manual online. I had to pay Singer $15 for a photocopy of the manual for the one I was given (you can order print copies, but can’t download them, STUPID SINGER), but it was worth every penny – they’ll have both threading instructions/diagrams and tension adjustment info.
I don’t have a barge or a cane, but I do have a hitch in my get-along.
Thanks, carlie. I actually have the manual so it shouldn’t be too hard to do now. I just didn’t even know where to start before.
Condolences to Quodlibet. Glad she enjoyed a good life with you.
Great news about the move, Parrowing – sounds like a huge potential improvement in a whole lot of aspects of your life (thinking about stuff you mentioned earlier) and I hope it’s every bit as good as hoped except better (despite the sewing machine headache, with which I sympathise).
Hope the family complications ensmoothen, Portia. All the best for your trip!
Hope you pull up a chair and stay for a while, CaitieCat.
I’m heading off to go to town, in mah fancy, high heels. :D I like being 5′ 10″.
Hi guys! Just dropping in to say that SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET. There’s this guy, see, who thinks that women shouldn’t wear bikinis because their bodies “belong to their husbands.” Parents don’t even get a say in this because the girls’ bodies belong to their *future* beaus. There’s a comment section. Just sayin’.
http://ryanvisconti.com/whose-body-is-it-anyway/#comment-675
Dropping in to say hi. I have delurked here before (back around 3D5K) and then slipped right back into lurking, which…it’s probably better if I force myself to be more sociable, so hi. :)
Big support to all who need it. I’m very sorry about your kitty, Quodlibet.
@tsraveling
That link needed a serious stuoidity trigger warning.
I’m feeling sick now. Your body first belongs to God and then to your spouse? Is there any way to un-read this?
@sonderval
Dude. You’re totally right. STUPIDITY TRIGGER WARNING folks. Only show up if you’re armed with Molotovs and spray paint.
*hugs&chikkensoop* for KevinKat. That sucks.
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Parrowing, *pouncehug* and congrats on the Moving. Please accept this *packet of extra hugs*, to be used as needed while packing.
:)
I had endless trouble with The Evil Sewing Machine until I realized that sometimes, it matters what size needle you use, and that tension is important.
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Reading Pharyngula frequently results in surreal, Pharyngula-related dreams.
But then, my dreams’ default setting has always been “surreal”.
:D
Mostly it’s pretty entertaining…except when it spins the dials to “terrifying”.
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Wow, Portia; that’s a lot of family-related chainsaws to keep in the air!
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I’m sure there’s a chip for that already in development, CaitieCat. It’ll be advertised for its beneficial properties—virtually instantaneous uplink with emergency responders, ability to LoJack malefactors and inhibit recidivism at the source of the problem, thus allowing for the complete dismantling of the current prison-and-punishment system (what a savings!)—but the whole point will actually be to allow the NSA (or other relevant Alphabet Agencies) to hack, download, even reprogram our Precious Brainmeats.
Also, howdy! and Welcome In. No barges needed; I just lurch-step around the place, myself.
:)
Do you engage in…cane blingage?
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Pat Robertson just has to go further and further “out there” to even rate a mention, these days.
It must really be a strain on his creative abilities.
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Hi, Millicent. Welcome Back In.
:)
–
Hi there
Parrowing
I have to disagree with the others: The thread not catching the bobbin at all sounds more like the wrong or a blunt needle. Your manual probably has a section about matching neddles and fabric.
As a basic overview, needles have different strengths for different fabrics. The thicker and sturdier the fabric the higher the number of the needle.
And there are different needles for different fabrics and it really pays to invest a few bucks to invest in a stock of good needles.
Tension usually needs re-setting when the thread catches the bobbin but either the bobbin shows on the top or vice versa. If you can see your bobbin when looking at the top the tension is too high, if you can see the top-thread on the bottom it’s too low.
As for blunt needles, there’s an easy trick to find out if you killed it on a pin: Take an old pair of tights and push the needle through and take it out again. If it goes smoothely everything is allright, if it gets caught you need a new one…
+++
Talking about machines, it didn’t take long from the message of doom to the actual disaster. It’s already producing error messages and threadnests. *sigh*
I’d hoped it would last until I had the money from that translation job I have in October
TMI warning! Speaking of dreams and gay sex, last night I dreamed I was a guy going down on another guy. (Luckily for my asexual self, the sex cut right to the end just after getting started.) I don’t think that was anything to do with too much FtB. And the other guy certainly wasn’t Brownian. He was extremely un-clever and selfish. Afterwards he told dream-self that he wasn’t interested in dream-self and just wanted to get off. Dream-self was put out but not too sad because he didn’t like the guy very much (and the guy had a really ugly wang, too).
Then, because this took place on a pier near a shrimp farm, dream-self got to enjoy a little schadenfreude when other guy went too close to a shrimp enclosure during feeding time and got sprayed with shrimp food, which was ground up, old fish parts.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~
CaitieCat (#28)
Two thousand is an understatement. Each of those has like three or more possible readings on average. Then there are the 650+ additional special kanji for use in names. Then there are ateji/jukujikun—compounds where all the regular pronunciations of the kanji have little or nothing to do with the standard readings. Here’s a list of 3030 such compounds. Luckily, most of them don’t show up in regular writing. Some are common as dirt, though, like #574, #1938 and #2282.
Not to discourage you, though. I think the challenge is fun, myself. Also, the more kanji you learn, the more you’ll be able to see the connections between them and guess the Chinese-derived pronunciation for unfamiliar compounds.
Even though my proficiency in Japanese is only about JLPT2 level, I’m up to reading easier novels with lots of help from a dictionary. Mine is an electronic one that lets me input kanji by writing them out by hand. (I can also look them up by components.) Well worth investing in if you don’t have one yet.
Oh, another thing about sewing machines: I you have problems with your bobbin, especially birds nests the problem is almost always with the top thread. Just rethreading a machine works wonders.
And if you wonder how I learned all this: the hard way
Weird, my last message didn’t go through. Testing…
Hi Millicent! I remember you. :)
Trying again:
TMI warning! Speaking of dreams and gay sex, last night I dreamed I was a guy going down on another guy. (Luckily for my asexual self, the sex cut right to the end just after getting started.) I don’t think that was anything to do with too much FtB. And the other guy certainly wasn’t Brownian. He was extremely un-clever and selfish. Afterwards he told dream-self that he wasn’t interested in dream-self and just wanted to get off. Dream-self was put out but not too sad because he didn’t like the guy very much (and the guy had a really ugly wang, too).
Then, because this took place on a pier near a shrimp farm, dream-self got to enjoy a little schadenfreude when other guy went too close to a shrimp enclosure during feeding time and got sprayed with shrimp food, which was ground up, old fish parts.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~
CaitieCat (#28)
Two thousand is an understatement. Each of those has like three or more possible readings on average. Then there are the 650+ additional special kanji for use in names. Then there are ateji/jukujikun—compounds where all the regular pronunciations of the kanji have little or nothing to do with the standard readings. Here’s a list of 3030 such compounds. Luckily, most of them don’t show up in regular writing. Some are common as dirt, though, like #574, #1938 and #2282.
Not to discourage you, though. I think the challenge is fun, myself. Also, the more kanji you learn, the more you’ll be able to see the connections between them and guess the Chinese-derived pronunciation for unfamiliar compounds.
Even though my proficiency in Japanese is only about JLPT2 level, I’m up to reading easier novels with lots of help from a dictionary. Mine is an electronic one that lets me input kanji by writing them out by hand. (I can also look them up by components.) Well worth investing in if you don’t have one yet.
Gonna try this in parts to see what the filter is objecting to:
TMI warning! Speaking of dreams and gay sex, last night I dreamed I was a guy going down on another guy. (Luckily for my asexual self, the sex cut right to the end just after getting started.) I don’t think that was anything to do with too much FtB. And the other guy certainly wasn’t Brownian. He was extremely un-clever and selfish. Afterwards he told dream-self that he wasn’t interested in dream-self and just wanted to get off. Dream-self was put out but not too sad because he didn’t like the guy very much (and the guy had a really ugly wang, too).
Then, because this took place on a pier near a shrimp farm, dream-self got to enjoy a little schadenfreude when other guy went too close to a shrimp enclosure during feeding time and got sprayed with shrimp food, which was ground up, old fish parts.
CaitieCat (#28)
Two thousand is an understatement. Each of those has like three or more possible readings on average. Then there are the 650+ additional special kanji for use in names. Then there are ateji/jukujikun—compounds where all the regular pronunciations of the kanji have little or nothing to do with the standard readings.
Not to discourage you, though. I think the challenge is fun, myself. Also, the more kanji you learn, the more you’ll be able to see the connections between them and guess the Chinese-derived pronunciation for unfamiliar compounds.
Even though my proficiency in Japanese is only about JLPT2 level, I’m up to reading easier novels with lots of help from a dictionary. Mine is an electronic one that lets me input kanji by writing them out by hand. (I can also look them up by components.) Well worth investing in if you don’t have one yet.
hmmmm
Sometimes ground up, old fish parts are just ground up, old fish parts.
At least we can hope so.
Given the habits of the modern Christian right, they’re probably including people who were cut off in traffic while displaying Ixoye fish.
So… thanks to the responders to my question. A quick reply (before I go off to clean the house in preparation for the arrival of my MIL… whee!)
chigau suggests I ask for the source of the number from the person who gave it to me. I can do that, and I expect to get nothing authoritative, which will just dump it back in my court (in their eyes). I was trying to head off that round of the exchange by finding something authoritative first. But it may come come to that.
Owlmirror points to the wikipedia list of Christian martyrs and suggests asking why there aren’t hundreds of thousands of people listed there. Good point, but I suspect the counter will be in the definition of being a martyr. That list contains only “notable people with Wikipedia articles” and not everyone killed over their faith. So, sadly, that very article – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_martyrs – contains the seeds of its own demise as a counter argument.
carlie suggests taking the number “seriously” and driving the point home until the person stops sending me this stuff. Possible, I suppose, but the sender is a long term acquaintance who knows me. I would rather have an honest discussion where I gave her facts, rather than simply drive her off with sarcasm. In fact, I would rather just tell her that we’re not having the discussion than go through the effort required to fake sincere concern over these numbers.
What I really want to know is whether there is a hint of truth in that 150,000 a year number. And if not, where did it come from? That’s what I want to find, so I can go back to her and say “come off it… that’s bogus and here’s why.” But maybe that is too much to ask, even in this day and age of the internet.
I will try some more google searches when I have the time – while avoiding my MIL in the coming week – and see what I can find.
Caine:
Nice heels! I was wearing my goodwill heels yesterday during that discussion :) I love goodwill.
I remember you too, Millicent. *waves* :)
Which usually takes the form of objections. “Is he [opposing counsel] testifying or is she [client]?” (That’s my favorite one.)
150,000 sounds an awful lot like ‘add together all the people who are Christian who were killed in sectarian wars in various parts of the world this year, ignoring that for most of them the proximate cause of their death was that their leaders declared war on somebody else, not anything to do with their faith,’ or something like that.
Last time I caught somebody doing that it was over church burnings. To listen to them you’d never realize that the church burnings were a violent response to very similar mosque burnings going on at the same time.
College newspaper columnist manages to feel superior to both ‘sides’
Quodlibet:
So sorry for the loss of your feline companion.
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Millicent & Jeff Powell:
Welcome in!
Kick your legs up and relax. Tasty beverage of your choice coming right up. Alcohol or n/a?
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Speaking of n/a drinks, of late I have been enjoying homemade limeade.
Muddled limes
2 oz carbonated water
~2-3 oz simple syrup
Similar to a Mojito (sans alcohol and mint). Very light and refreshing. The sweetness can be increased or decreased as desired. Lemonade can be done the same.
We are in total agreement on that number sounding very much too large, Howard. That’s why I’d love to find a way to prove it incorrect. :)
And Tony, thank you for the beverage offer. Given the immanent arrival of MIL, can we go with something really strong, please? Maybe some cask strength scotch? Neat? Got anything from Islay?
My replies will be sketchy here thanks to the pending visit, and a zillion other things to do, but I will be around.
Oh, and speaking of replies… how come I can only actually “reply” via email? I can’t find a reply mechanism on the site itself. Odd that. I must be missing something.
Hiya Jeff, I’ve been remiss and haven’t welcomed you yet. Good luck with the MIL visit.
*slides over a tumbler of Crown Royal*
It’s what I have in my office from the previous occupant, hope you like a 1978 vintage.
@Jeff Powell,
150,000 martyrs is pretty non-specific. Which christian church does it refer to? In the Orthodox church Nicholas II and family are considered martyrs, but the average protestant would probably not agree with that.
Parrowing:
Happy for you my friend. The move sounds like something you look forward to!
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Portia:
whew is right.
Remember, pull out couch. Florida. Vacation. Oh, shoot you won’t be taking one anytime soon with the new job. Well maybe your dreams will be vacation fueled fantasies.
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CaitieCat:
Welcome to the Lounge!
So sorry about your father. My sympathies.
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Jeff Powell, I think you need to get your friend to define “martyr” for purposes of the discussion at hand.
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Jeff:
Are you on FtB replying?
Or do you have follow up comments sent to your email and you respond from there?
On the site itself, you just fill in the comment form and submit. I think via email it is different.
tsraveling: I grew up with that shit (only in my case, it was my father saying he owned my body because god until he chose to give it to a husband).
It’s fun, ain’t it? :-/
Yay creativity! I mentioned how my depression is well-represented by anhedonia (as Jen has mentioned also suffering), the inability to find pleasure in things I used to like a lot.
I’ve also mentioned that I’m pleased to notice it’s becoming easier to find that happiness again. Being able to make the shirt designs I just posted at my site (for Greta’s newfound “ilkdom”) is making me unreasonably happy. I feel a bit like Scrooge after he had that bit with the boy in the street. “Are you thick or summink?” “Delightful boy, delightful…”
Yay tunnel-light that appears to not be a train this time!
Oh, man…tease me, why dontcha :) I would love that so much!
Jeff:
Will this do?
http://www.bowmore.com/whiskies/12-years-old/
Eeeeeeeeeeee can’t wait to see.
And that joy is totallly reasonable :D
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If I reply to an email containing a comment from Pharyngula, I am replying to pzmyers AT gmail DOT com.
So…I don’t know how that would work.
Hi Portia. Thanks for the welcome (to everyone else as well) and for the scotch. I am going to need it. (Daughters and mothers-in-law… package deals. Who would have thunk it? :)
And yazukus, you’re right, but you have all the data I have. I just love these bold statements with no backing, no support, nothing. The person who sent me this unsubstantiated claim is, apparently, something of a fundie, but in an odd way. Lost of people who claim to be Christians actually aren’t – so she says. I’ve also got the claim that originally every animal was vegetarian, but apparently the whole original sin thing screwed that up for the animals and the humans. And we’ve got the idea that Noah’s flood is literally true. Oh, and she will continue to pray for me and play with my dogs in heaven, which will be the perfect place, but that implies that my dogs have souls, I think. I haven’t explored that with her yet.
Oddly, though, she’s not a young earth creationist, and I don’t think she believes humans and dinosaurs coexisted. How she deals with a 4.6 billion year old planet and the rest of her beliefs I honestly don’t know.
The entire argument with her is probably pointless, I know. She won’t listen to reason, but as she isn’t a bad person I would like to give her something to actually chew on. That 150K martyr claim seemed outrageous enough on the face of it that I thought it would be simple to debunk. But it’s not as simple as I’d hoped, mostly for lack of any source of the claim so far.
Ah well. Such is life.
There’s a link at Greta’s post, or here:
http://fullmetalfeminist.wordpress.com/2013/08/28/three-versions-of-the-got-ilk-shirt/
I had thought my name would have a link to the blog on it, but it appears that’s only in my profile. Silly system.
CaitieCat, welcome and help yourself to the Pile O’Various Hugs on the floor. Just watch for lurking Horses or Peas.
(when I saw Shakesville was going on break, I kind of hoped a Shaker or two might brave the metaphorically blood-stained upholstery to hang with us. I figure the least I could do for Melissa McEwan and Ana Mardoll and all the other hardcore Shaker mods whose names I can’t remember offhand, would be to make sure to welcome their regulars if I saw some. The Shakesville mods sure deserve a break after the last… uh… six months or more of really rough crap at least, yeesh.)
(note for y’all who don’t know… Mardoll was doing the massive transcription of the Texas abortion filibuster and subsequent open-session farce, but she’s had to drastically cut back because of this jackass.)
—
Scalzi being awesome again, laying out some thoughts on online comment sections and keeping them productive.
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/08/28/various-thoughts-on-online-comments/
Just had a nifty futuristic SyFy (hee hee) idea for the Lounge.
Imagine the Lounge as a virtual reality simulation where the denizens create an avatar to use for interaction, then plug in and enter the VR and hang out here. Kinda like that episode of Warehouse 13…
CaitieCat, your nym does link to your blog now; maybe it took a bit to refresh?
CaitieCat:
*hangs head* I’m a bad ilk, I hadn’t checked Greta’s blog :) I did try your nym to see if it linked to your blog a minute ago, to no avail. But Pteryxx says it works, so there ya go :)
I love the design! :D :D :D Very cool. Glad it brought you some happiness, too.
Argh! Can’t keep up! There’s only one of me, and I have a house to clean. (A house that has 3 canine residents, and as you may know, dogs are just a very concentrated form of entropy.)
Bowmore is great, thanks!
As for defining martyr myself, I dunno if she’d let me get away with that. I really need to find the source of that number.
Thanks all. I have to get back to the cleaning – and then lunch – for now. More in an hour or three.
150,000 sounds like one or more genocidal massacres, and the list does include massacres.
Why do these massacre(s) not show up on a list which includes massacres?
Actually, I’m strongly doubtful if it means “this year” or “this past year”, as in 2012 specifically.
E-mail circulated crap tends to reference things as though they are current, when it actually refers to stuff that happened years ago, if they happened at all.
I suspect that 150,000, assuming it isn’t pulled out of someone’s ass, refers to a composite figure of incidents that occurred over several years, and if it isn’t, it refers to incidents in one specific year, possibly in a year with much military action.
It would be ironic if it included inter-Christian sectarian violence.
I thought this might help:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/curr_war.htm
But while they have some specific figures, they don’t have all of them, and they certainly don’t add up to 150,000 Christians.
Actually, it might help to respond with the question: Does this figure include Christian sectarian violence; that is, Christians killing each other for being the wrong sort of Christian?
Note to new commenters:
Keeping up with the Lounge is IMPOSSIBLE. Just ask anyone.
Heck I am off today and tomorrow and stuck at home, yet I will still be threadrupt at various times.
Both cicely and David M often do big comment dumps where they address multiple people in one post.
Well, no conversation with a fundy is complete without a shout out to the Doctrine of Original Herbivory.
Sounds like if she hangs around you more a little reason might sink in?
Oh? So maybe she wouldn’t consider many or most of the “martyrs” to actually be, y’know, Christian martyrs?
If they weren’t Christian martyrs, what exactly did they die for?
*ilktopus
aaaand this from a commenter on Scalzi’s latest seems very timely somehow… (bolds mine)
Pharyngula’s meant to be a defended space, not necessarily a “safe space” in the usual definition, and I’m not objecting to that. I just thought it grin-worthy that derailing by bringing up black-on-black violence merits a swift ban there. Indeed!
There is no source. Literally no source; AFAICT it coalesced out of a dozen different email forwards, Chick tracts, and breathless fantasies of persecution. Basically, it’s a tenet of faith for many christians that christianity/christians are the victims of persecution, and therefore make up stories about persecution in foreign places when there isn’t enough nearby for their tastes (and/Or declare any disagreement with them to constitute persecution, of course).
Well, the bread ain’t gonna make itself.
Type y’all later.
OK… maybe found a reference to the source of the huge number of martyrs claim:
http://www.cesnur.org/2011/mi-cri-en.html
Not sure I trust the source, but it appears to point to an actual source.
I stand corrected. An alcohol-cooled Portia.
Gotta be cooled somehow in this heat wave…whew.
Weeeellll, in addition to pull out couch, we also have a good deal of rain available, although at the moment, we have sunny skies, moderate temperatures and a lovely beach. One of the best in the country. Mmm hmmm. Nope no teasing there at all.
As for martyrs, I can get her in touch with my mum who is a professional one…
+++
And so it begins. Today #1 told me that her classmate B. is really in love with her. I asked her how so and she told me that he often kisses her. I asked her “do you like that?” “Well, not really…”
I told her again that she can say no and stop and that nobody is allowed to kiss her if she doesn’t want t be kissed. She then said she likes it a little but I’m afraid that she doesn’t want to say no because she likes the rest of being liked and being paid attention to.
So, fuck. I’m not freaking out about some schoolyard puppy love. She can have all the schoolyard puppy love she wants. I’m angry and worried that at the age of 6 both participants have already learned the script about “boy kisses girl, girl gets kissed, who gives a fuck about whether she likes it or not”
Tony:
You’re a mischievous Shoop, you are. I’m going to have a beach to Lounge on soon, so I won’t be too mad at you. The slightly lower temps, though, I covet.
I work with a 122mm Martyr.
Giliell:
:( :( :( Sad that they’ve absorbed that already.
Is this a good place to ask questions about biology? What’s the difference between epigenetics and Lamarkism? Don’t both theories claim that changes in the environment can be passed on to offspring?
Wow, Giliell… I hope you get the schoolyard situation resolved. I agree with your concern… not cool.
As for your mum… thank you for the offer, but I think I have a few professional martyrs in my family too. :)
On that front…
The article I linked to before mentions this book: The Price of Freedom Denied by Brian J. Grim and Roger Finke.
I googled that and found this: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/archives/12929
which claims that the book bases it’s numbers off of data from here:
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/irf/
I’ve descended into that maze just a little and have decided I have far too much to do in my life than go through all of that. Ugh. I have no idea if the authors of the book actually did a reasonable job of summarizing things, but it it at least possible.
And it appears (at a glance) that much – if not most – of any religious persecution of Christians is perpetrated by – you guessed it – other religions.
No surprise there. I don’t often see gangs of atheists out with pitchforks, chasing down believers.
Anyway, I think I am going to have to rule this out as an avenue to chase with the person who wants me to convert. There might actually be evidence to back up this claim, if I had years to go through it all and figure it out.
Trigger Warning:
Domestic Violence
*Though this story deals with domestic violence, the reactions of three of those involved are to be commended*
http://gailsimone.tumblr.com/post/59241016677/so-this-happened
The rest of the story is at the link.
Trigger warning for my comment, domestic violence
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Tony:
That gave me goosebumps.
This part:
Is how i have to explain abuser’s behavior to clients over and over. “Why would she say I’m harassing her by filing for a restraining order?” “Why wouldn’t he just agree to the divorce?” “How can he treat me this way and say he loves me?” One word: control.
*eyeroll*
*facepalm*
*headdesk*
Lamarckism was the theory that all inheritable variation is due to change in the individual in response to environment.
Epigenetics covers the small amount of inheritable variation that is due to non-genetic changes in the way that genes and chromosomes can be activated (or not activated), due to the environment that the mother experiences, or the developing organism experiences.
Lamarckism was falsified by the discovery of, y’know, genetics.
Epigenetics is still science.
Giliell
That sucks indeed.
Jeff Powell
Actually the first article you linked to directly contradicts your friend’s claim of 150000/year; it says that their sources found 160,000 martyrs in 2000, which they say is the peak, while they quote 100000 for 2010. Their primary source is not Price of Freedom Denied, but rather a work aimed at christian missionaries which purported to be an analysis of christian martyrdom from the date of the alleged crucifixion of Jesus to two centuries from now. The article admits that actual statisticians disagree, but plays the usual ‘controversy’ card, as their author’s
A cursory Google search reveals that David B. Barrett was an aeronautical engineer turned missionary (taking a postgraduate degree in theology), which does not really incline me to take his word over that of people who actually have some comprehension of statistics, population analysis, and all the other things that relevant credentials might be taken to imply. Meanwhile, The Price of Freedom Denied merely points out (accurately) that sectarian violence is more common the less freedom of religion is legally guaranteed, which is the opposite of the claim usually made by the people passing this number around (This is not uncommon; denialists and conspiracy theorists of all types are prone to citing materials that directly contradict their position and claiming a win).
Wait, why is the number of martyrs supposed to be relevant to convincing you to convert?
Way it has been used on me: “Why would they be willing to die for Jesus and God if They did not exist?”
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. As far as sales pitches go… No gold star for this one.
@madarab #110: this is more of a social space, on the whole (as opposed to threads with an actual OP). Somebody might drop by and feel inclined to talk about that topic, but people might equally be engaged in other conversations. No “on-topic” in the Lounge!
This makes me sad.
Ok, I think Ben Affleck as Batman is not so much a super duper horrible, earth shattering move as it is bad casting, but apparently some people disagree with me:
Good. It was stupid shit like the Death Star one that made the White House raise the minimum number of signatures (from 25K to 100K) before the POTUS will respond. This kind of myopic bullshit results in real issues continuing to get ignored. (Not that you are endorsing the petition, Tony, I just had that in my craw).
Good point. I wasn’t thinking sarcasm so much as hypocrisy – that’s one of those things; as much as someone can feel they believe the truth of religion, they don’t really, not based on the way they act. Because if you truly, truly believed in it, you wouldn’t be able to do anything with your life but devote it to spending all of your time trying to convince everyone else of it, would you? Not if you cared. God said to tell everyone, God said that if you don’t you will get no reward, the punishment for not believing is an eternity of damnation. If you truly, truly believed that, you couldn’t enjoy any part of life that wasn’t trying to save people from that fate. The fact that people don’t go running around screaming like zealots means that, deep deep down, even subconsciously, some part of them doesn’t actually believe it.
Hi everyone! I am making an attempt to be social! Baby steps, and all that…
Today, in communicating with the work group I am supposed to be leading, I:
1. Wrote an email asking “Would you be available tomorrow?”
2. Erased that, and changed it to “WHEN would you be available tomorrow?”
3. Gave myself a sparkly gold star for finally starting to act like I have this position of relative authority because I earned it.
Social anxiety and years of conditioning about How Girls Act can really do a number on taking over leadership roles.
“I think I’ll pick a religion with a better survival rate.”
Arete:
hi! :)
I can relate. Good for you for pushing back against the conditioning :)
Threadrupt random query: I’m submitting a paper to a European based journal. It has been rejected by several US-based journals, essentially on the grounds that it’s too controversial and the level of evidence isn’t high enough (despite being very similar to previous papers they’ve taken without qualm.) The data does not favor the US system of medical care. Is there a way to say this in the cover letter without being out and out obnoxious?
Wait, journals rejecting a paper because it’s “too controversial?” I thought that was just something creationists made up.
Hungry. :(
Get off work in 19 minutes. Then food! :D
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Need to buy something for work. Supply budget short $60. Fuckital.
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Crunched latest data.
Am no longer statistically significant to p ≤ 0.001. Now, p ≤ 0.0001!
Huzzah!
Too controversial was my conclusion. What was actually said was things like, “Just because survival in disease X is lower in the US than in countries with national health insurance and selectively lower in places with higher rates of uninsured people you can’t possibly suggest that there might be some connection between the two facts. Too speculative.”
Dalillama: you’re quite right. I glossed over the first book because I didn’t find a lot of references to it in my (admittedly cursory) search. That said, though, I can well imagine my friend saying 150,000 vs 100,000… so what? We Christians are still persecuted.
Your chasing down of the reference of the author of the first book I had not attempted yet. You and I are in agreement on that, but my friend will, no doubt, come back with something about him still being a good source, though. Heck, he might even be “the resident expert” on these things in her mind, depending on what kind of insanity she’s been fed on this topic.
To everyone asking why she would bring this up as part of a conversion attempt… thanks for the humor. I particularly like the “I’d like a religion with a better survival rate” concept. Nice. But this came up sideways.
The original conversion started with a birthday “gift” that arrived unexpectedly from her: a copy of Cold Case Christianity by J. Warner Wallace. I haven’t been able to read even a single page of it yet, and I will only do so in an effort to tear it apart, but it’s a Christian apologetics tome, and I know nothing about the field. I know I would spit in the face of god – if she/he/it existed – for being such a jerk, but trying to argue with someone over things that supposedly happened 2000 years ago leaves me wanting more experience than I have in the field.
I did go hunting for reviews of that book when it arrived, but it was new and all of the reviews I found were gushing praise from xian sites… nothing critical at all. Maybe I need to write the first one of those – I even have a book review blog that needs a new entry – but that requires reading the blasted thing and I am not going there yet.
So… in short: my friend really is nice, and I’ve known her for over 15 years and this is the first time she’s tried this, and rather than just cut it off or otherwise ignore it, I wanted to come back to her with something sensible and convincing. Not that it will affect her, but I wanted her to know what she is dealing with.
I guess I will keep digging.
Welcome Arete!
Amusing story of the day: one of my labs was dead quiet, so I suggested that I should bring in a pair of speakers and everyone could take turns each week plugging in their mp3 players/phones. They were all “yay!” and then I said “and we’ll put them on shuffle so we can all hear the embarrassing songs you forgot you had in your collection” and they were all “NOOOOOOOO!!!!” I didn’t realize the phenomenon of “songs you hope no one ever finds out you listen to” was so universal.
Arete – yes!
Now you can graduate to mental manipulation. If you say “which is better for you, 11 or 2”? then you preserve the illusion of giving them a choice while completely restricting them to your favored times. ;)
I didn’t realize the phenomenon of “songs you hope no one ever finds out you listen to” was so universal.
This is when having a kid comes in handy: any embarrassing songs you put on there were clearly for xer benefit, not yours. Especially the Petersson und Findus ones. Clearly not something I would ever listen to…
Powerful piece on consent and age: here.
@carlie
You should’ve just sprung the randomness on them when they go to play their “music”. Give them no chance to remove it from their devices.
Carlie–So, same strategies as for dealing with 2 year-olds, then? I can do that. (Actually, I only didn’t put a time originally because some of them may have already signed up for time on the expensive shared off-site equipment, and I wanted those people in particular to be there. Someday I will achieve the “Do both, I don’t care how” level, but that is much too advanced for my current skill set.)
I’m also a totally unfair meanie who sends away undergrads with raw data, and tells them not to come back until they have not only thought about what said data means, but also processed it into a form that allows them to communicate the outcome.
Jeff Powell –
http://icl.nd.edu/assets/84231/the_demo%20graphics_%20of_christian_martyrdom_todd_johnson.pdf
I think this is the best available summary of the martyr figures – and as soon as you look at it, you see there is hardly a true sentence in the whole paper. It completely distorts all the historical facts and requires a definition of “martyr” which the author admits would not be acceptable to anyone else, not even to the churches, because it’s far too generous in including basically every person who happened to be a known christian at the time they were killed.
Too bad your friend has swallowed the church Flavor Aid.
Dunno, I’d be tempted to get new friend rather than argue with that delusional idiot.
Thanks hotshoe. I have bookmarked that and will read it as soon as house cleaning and other responsibilities allow.
I agree with you about the friend being delusional. She, of course, thinks I am that way. It’s probably a pointless conversation to have in any case, but we’ll see. I can always just call it off if it gets too irritating, and I have plenty of non-delusional friends.
Thanks again!
@62 A Noyd – totally get you. I studied it for two years back in university at the Dawn of Time (late 80s), but foundered then on the writing system, not least because I was also learning Russian and German at the same time, and
threefive* writing systems at once was TOO MANY OMIPU!So I can understand probably 50-60% of what’s being said when I listen to Japanese, but more like 10% of adult written language. Which means I watch a lot of shows where I can listen to it and improve my comprehension/synthesis, while on the side also studying the writing systems to get them nailed down properly. Reading, I just keep on plugging away, though my depression interfered for a long time with that. Languages are pure pleasure to me – how I became a translator, ne? – and good old anhedonia said, “Nah, you don’t really want to do that, do you?”
So I’m back plugging away at my O’Neill, wishing I had the resources to get a tablet to do e-flash cards or any of the other excellent ways one can do that, but see above re: paying the rent. In a good month, I can put maybe 100 hours of work into action. I doubt anyone here needs me doing the arithmetic to show that this is not the path to technological updating, but rather the path to “mac & cheese surprise”** as nightly food offering. :)
* Forgot the kanas! Leaving out Japanese let me concentrate on two writing systems instead. And the two corresponded a fair bit. :)
** The surprise being “what did I find in my pantry or freezer today to stick in the pasta?”
TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE
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The fuck?? Rape someone, get 30 days in jail? Losing his job, his wife and his home are the social repercussions of his actions. The LEGAL punishment should be separate.
On top of that, he determines this rape wasn’t that bad bc it was nonviolent??!!
Fuck you Judge baugh.
That poor girl.
My heart goes out to her family.
Tony – the piece I linked to in 138 uses that case as a starting point for her essay. It’s so sad.
Hello all, this is my first time in the Lounge. I do not detect any brandy, cookies, or a warm hearth. What gives?!
I just walked past an unfamiliar rat-dog and did not get barked at. Can the apocalypse be far?
Gack! Whatever was holding my posts up finally got overridden by PZ or something. Now I’m spamming. At least the link to the ateji/jukujikun list is there now.
~*~*~*~*~*~
CaitieCat (#143)
My listening comprehension is atrocious. Especially for a nearly-graduated Japanese major. My comprehension lags by a few words and if I get off by more than that, I can’t understand anything. My reading is actually better, but only because I do it a lot and the words are always there to be taken in at my own speed, not lost and replaced by the next utterance. I can read far more pronunications than I can understand meanings, too. Even many kun-yomi, yutou-yomi (mixed kun-on reading), juubako-yomi (mixed on-kun reading), and ateji/jukujikun words I never sat down and tried to learn. (But then, I can try to memorize the pronunciation of 浸す twenty times and fail. Weird-ass brain.)
I can relate. I don’t do pro translations, but I’ve done amateur ones and depression gets in the way of that a lot. But even if it weren’t for depression, I don’t think I could be a pro translator since I some days just can’t come up with something in English once I’ve understood it in Japanese. Like, my brain will actively resist any attempts to form the same sentiment coherently using English words. It’s especially ridiculous when it happens when I said something in Japanese and then have to repeat it to someone who only speaks English. Who fails at “translating” their own idea into their own native language!?
Nor do I have expertise in any field (thanks, depression!) so I’m pretty useless unless someone wants a fantasy novel translated or something.
Also got an actual “Hi, I read your profile and questions and I don’t think we’re a good match” response instead of being just fucking ignored. World, what is going on here?
Laundry night a Casa La Pelirroja (90+ ºF for a while), and I had to split the washer load since the linens and towels were unbalanced, and removing the linens balanced the load.
Now bedtime is dryer dependent, as the Redhead always take precedence over my bed time…
A Noyd @ 148 – yeah, I’m fairly lucky in that I can pick up a lot of stuff in oral comprehension because a) I’ve just got a good ear for it, and I’m an inherently good mimic (not bragging, simple truth; these are things I’m good at, without my doing anything to make them happen), and b) because I trained as a linguist, and that gives you a set of tools for analysing language that can have remarkable utility.
Viz., at a conference I went to a couple of years back, there were problems with the Spanish interpreters* who hadn’t shown up in sufficient numbers, and I ended up volunteering to pitch in. It helped that I’ve had several years of Latin, and that Spanish is amazingly regular for a modern spoken language, but I have never taken a class in Spanish of any sort, nor visited any Spanish-speaking country other than briefly in Spain. Still, I was able to serve ably, and thankfully they assigned me to someone who understood English reasonably well, but was unconfident about producing it in public. So I only had to go one way.
Which is good, because I’ve done interpreting gigs before (mostly for Russians), and it’s headachey and exhausting. The pro standard, for anyone not knowing, is that you let your subject get two sentences ahead of you, then you start. So at the same time, you’re producing one sentence in your native language, storing a second as you translate it, and record the third to move into the queue next. It’s honestly brutal, at least for me.
I’ll never be a translator of Japanese, though, there’s too much wordplay and reference in their everyday speech, let alone written fiction, that I’d never catch the way I will with my main language pairs (Russian, German, and French to English, professionally). I just want to be able to read my manga without having to wait for the scanlations. :D
I watch most of my shows in Japanese (well, y’know, the Japanese ones, anyway), with subtitles, but I’m pleased that I’m getting better and better able to follow much of what’s going on without the subs.
My main disappointment right now is that my current primary partner (I’m poly) is resolutely monolingual, has no particular capacity for languages (we’ve tried), and reads somewhat slowly due to a learning disability. Which means she has no interest at all in watching anything not in English, because she can’t keep up with the subtitles. We’ve watched some shows together, when they’re available dubbed, but that loses three-quarters of the fun for me. :/
What I wish is that I had friends locally who loved anime/manga/dorama, and enjoyed them in the original as I do. Or better yet, a local secondary partner – my primary lives about 500 Miles away in Baltimore, and yes that’s our song – would be even awesomer, cause then I could get sex and Japaneseitude.
* For those playing along with the home game, “interpreters” are the people who do the amazing work of live translation of speech; “translators” like myself do the more boring, static work of translating text.
Sethmassine:
Ah, you decided to check us out.
Belly up to the bar my friend.
Brandy you say? Will this do? http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hj3AucueYY4/UXAYJJQyqbI/AAAAAAAACyA/2FZIuQCElxo/s1600/Q.jpg
How about some chocolate? And not that I’m the official welcome giver- but welcome!
http://benedictjacka.co.uk/extracts/chosen-chapter-1/
I came across this site thanks to Scalzi’s blog. I was really intrigued by this snippet from the book Chosen:
*burp*
From Tony’s link @114:
“They were boyfriend and girlfriend, but had split up, and while apart, he had dated another girl. Then they got back together, and in the conversation I had witnessed, she had told him that she had seen another guy while they were separated, and that sent him into a frenzy.”
Because he thought of her as his property. I’ve seen this before.
Some while (at least a year) after Sister1 divorced (physical abuse), her ex found out that she had begun to date other men. He called her about it, demanding to know, how could she do that to him????…despite the fact that he, himself, started picking up women at bars before the decree was even granted.
*spit*
All of which leaped straight to mind later, when the Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman murders hit the news.
–
Hi, Arete! I believe I’ve Welcomed you In?
If not, please consider it done.
:)
–
dianne!
*pouncehug*
Well, of course that’s too controversial to print! Everyone knows that USAia enjoys the Best Health Care System In The World™!
–
From carlie’s link @138:
” What teenager believes she is not mentally or emotionally capable of full consent? “
Indeed.
“Because it doesn’t matter if a young girl is saying yes, it’s an adult man’s job to say no.”
Yes.
–
sethmassine:
You are looking at the wrong end of the bar, silly!
:)
The hearth is over there, the boozes are over there, the cookies have been eaten (late-outa-the-gate; what did you expect?), and temperate, scented breezes are blowing in from the patio area.
–
cicely,
This. So. Much.
–
When my little dude is trying to do something dangerous (he is four) and I tell him that is why he can’t do it the refrain is always, “but I’ll be careful, it’s okay, I know how to do it, don’t worry, I won’t get hurt!”. And I have to tell him that because I am an adult, I can see some dangers where he cannot, and so I won’t be able to allow him to do the thing he wants to do. But he is so sure that he would be okay, that he would be careful, and that nothing bad would happen. That is what we do as adults, as parents, we try to foresee the danger the child cannot, even if they are sure they want it.
CaitieCat (#151)
I can imagine! I get stuck for words in a single language all the time.
I’m picking up more and more of the wordplay and reference. (Not impressive since I’ve been reading authentic Japanese materials at various levels of competence for uh… 15 years or so now?) But, after a certain point, catching it’s not the problem so much as converting it into something clever while staying accurate. More so in Japanese with its gazillion homophones and the ability to pun visually through kanji than most languages, I think. The more I catch, the more I think to myself how glad I am not to have to translate it. Like a character reading a sloppily-written 殺 as ハヌメホ. Fuck translating that. Even fairly straight-forward cultural references make me feel that way. An example from what I’m currently reading is “It was like an onigiri without an umeboshi” to describe something disappointing and unexciting. You either have to footnote the shit out of that or localize it or hope your audience is up on Japanese cuisine/comfort food.
As for scanlations, I’m really glad I’m not reliant on them. Back when I started learning Japanese, I wanted to get away from the “horribleness” of pro manga translations. Scanlations were just getting started then, and I thought they were super awesome and had way better translations going for them. Now that I know not just more about Japanese but more about translating, I want to go back in time and smack myself.
Translation-wise, they’re horrible. They’re nearly always packed with overly literal or word-for-word translations and that can make them incomprehensible. It’s not hard these days to search J-E dictionaries for noun/verb pairs and set phrases, but too many scanlation translators don’t. Or they take a sentence broken up across word bubbles/pages and translate each piece separately rather than reading and translating the sentence as a whole. Or they don’t realize that, because Japanese lets you leave out significant portions of a sentence (or, similarly, when characters get interrupted), you have to guess what the rest would be, translate that, then pare down the English as much as possible. (Not made any easier by how Japanese often starts with the bits English ends with.) Looking back at the pro translations I was turning my nose up at 15 years ago, they were actually extremely well done. (Nowadays, the pro ones can be terrible, though not usually quite sinking to average scanlation level.)
I’m a hypocrite, though, because I periodically do some scripts for scanlations, and I know I’m getting stuff wrong. But at least I don’t go around anymore pretending scanlations deliver superior quality. And I always would read over my translation to see if it made sense in and of itself. If not, I’d assume I was screwing up somehow, and not that Japanese is an inherently whacky language. And I’m waaaaay better now at doing sense translations. The more fluent I get, the more fun I have trying to translate my experience reading the Japanese, like my sense of how a character is saying something, as much as the meaning of the words. Reading fluency is soooo much more than simply deciphering meaning. People don’t give that enough credit.
Get English-language media subbed in Japanese! (Okay, okay, more easily said than done…)
**Pouncehugs Cicely**
Everyone knows that USAia enjoys the Best Health Care System In The World™!
SEER (the national linked cancer database) started providing some information about insurance status this year. It gets worse. Did you know that people without insurance who get lymphoma have the same survival rate as people who got lymphoma in 1978-80? Well, now you do.
by the way, EEB has an ongoing project she mentioned at Jason’s:
https://proxy.freethought.online/lousycanuck/2013/08/27/rmensrights-reminds-me-why-i-dont-reddit/#comment-117785
Now that I know there are advanced students of 日本語 here…
prepare to be used to help me with my 宿題.
お願いします
We have someone who would like a little help: https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2013/08/27/on-newsstands-everywhere-now/comment-page-1/#comment-679501
Tony:
That’s the author I was screaming about in Tdome last night! The “she was a girl in her twenties” one. That was about Luna. Chosen is the latest book in a series, I just started the first book, and it’s decent enough, but the whole “girl” business is driving me batshit, especially as he’s capable of using “woman”, but it only applies if a woman seems dangerous a/o authoritative or is over 30. Auuuuugh.
Caine
Unfortunately, he doesn’t stop. It bugged the shit out of me the whole time.
Dalillama:
He does this through the whole series?* I know he doesn’t stop during the first book, I went through another round of screaming last night, because he’s using ‘girl’ and ‘woman’ on the same fucking page, referring to adult females.
*I’m not doing a whole series of this shit. Butcher’s sexism and immaturity was bad enough. I don’t need more of this crap.
LOL, well, chigau, you’re welcome to ask, but I’m not likely to be much help. I’m definitely more of a comprehension-oriented listener than a performance-oriented speaker. :)
That said, I’ll be happy to host dedicated discussion threads at ﾊｶﾞフェム, which as Pteryxx noted, is accessible through clicking my nym here. There’s no such thing as a time in which I’m not interested in learning more about any language, and Japanese is one of my favourites, not least because at least grammatically, it’s surprisingly simple, and I quite like it for that. Things like not declining for number or gender or specificity or case…well, let’s just say as someone who speaks Russian, I appreciate those qualities in Japanese very much.
I mean, I love Russian too, and the fun you can have with word order in a highly-inflected language is cool. But dude! How can you not love pitch accent? And visual palindromes? And Kansai-ben? And a stupidly large and weirdly arranged array of count-words?
And sixty-three* different frustrating gradations of politeness? Okay, that last bit does my head in, some. But 日本語 is, otherwise, completely awesome, and gives access to some really great media, so I’m willing to overlook that, and just speak completely inappropriately most of the time, but then they sorta expect that from a 外人, ですね？
Probably when I speak I sound alarmingly like a weird 外人-accented mix of Edward and Alphonse Elric, because Al’s is the voice (in the linguistic sense, not the physical) that best fits my brain, somehow, while Ed’s gives such a great range of derisive and insulting language. :D
I’m reasonably good at straight-up pronunciation, given I’m highly perfectionist about it, but I admit I’m having a hard time nailing down proper pitch accent. Or at least I think I am, but maybe I’m doing better than I think, and have no way to judge? Dunno.
Ahh, you’ve no idea how pleasing it is to me to sit and chat with some folk about languages I know and love. Well, maybe the number of words I’ve dropped in this thread is a hint? Maybe.
Now, enough Ghost in the Shell: SAC for tonight. I’ll have タチコマ-voices on my brain all night. Maybe sneak in an episode or two of Bamboo Blade before sleep.
MEEEEEEENNNNN!
DOOOOOOOO!
KOTEEEEEEEE!
* Slight exaggeration.
Have you read his Codex Alera? A great deal of that in the Dresden Files is a characterization choice, which pervades the books because they’re told from a first person perspective. While the characterization choice is a valid one (it is intended as a flaw in Harry’s character), as is the choice of perspective, I feel that he should have gone with one or the other, to prevent that pervasive effect. Unfortunately, as best I can recall, Jacka doesn’t stop with the girl crap. You may want to take a look at Kevin Hearne’s Iron Druid Chronicles. He’s far from perfect, but at least he bloody well refers to women as women, when he’s not referring to them by name, which he usually does.
Also, just noticed it’s getting late here, and I have promises to keep, and miles to go after I sleep.
The best of AROTE to you all, should be around on and off. Thanks for the warm welcome. :)
*Allow for a small possibility that I’m thinking of someone else, but I’m pretty sure it’s Hearne; after enough of them they start to run together a bit in my head.
Oh, just realized I’d missed a post by A Noyd, sorry – 明日の朝に答えしろう。:)
Something just occurred to me: I have worked at 8 restaurants since I was 16. Looking back I find myself wondering why those who work in the Back of the House (BOH) have predominately been black, while those in the Front of the House (FOH) are largely white…
Dalillama, no I haven’t read alera, and am not going to read any more of Butcher’s stuff. I don’t buy into the various defenses of Harry’s character, I think it’s all bullshit, and that doesn’t say one fucking thing about how Butcher writes female characters, and on that front, he seriously sucks. His characterization of Murphy alone gave me screaming fits. Ugh.
I’ve heard a lot of good things about the Iron Druid Chronicles, so I’ll put those on my list.
I honestly think that in many ways Harry is all the way past Anti-Hero into Villain Protagonist, and I can certainly see your point regarding Butcher. I stand by the Iron Druid suggestion.
Tony!
When I stay in Better™* Hotels (on the Employer’s tab) I note that front-desk staff are various (colour, age) but the Cleaners are 99.44% brown and 99% women.
—
*drive up motels all seem to be staffed by a Family, everybody does everything
chigau (#161)
しまった！ (≧▽≦;)
.
.
.
.
なーんてね。何か分からないことあったら、知らせてね。ww
~*~*~*~*~*~
CaitieCat (#166)
On the other hand, you can call a group of almost any animal (including humans) a 群れ（むれ）, whereas you need a whole bunch of different words for that in English (herd, pack, school, etc.). We also have a stupid amount of words for male animals vs. female animals vs. baby animals whereas Japanese can tack on おす／めす／子 respectively. (Also, ever notice how English is obsessed with castrated male animals vs. intact male animals.)
“Proper” is entirely dependent on region/dialect, though. Dictionaries, if they cover pitch accent at all, will have the typical middle-class Tokyo pattern as the standard, but every major region and dialect has a different pattern and some have no pitch accent at all. Those accent patterns are regular within each region/dialect, so a foreigner messing up accent still doesn’t sound natural. But being accustomed to native sorts of pitch accent variation mean that native speakers can easily understand foreigners who ignore or screw up pitch accent. Watching out for long vs. short vowels and avoiding stress on syllables/morae are infinitely more important for intelligibility.
Oh, also? Pitch accent changes when you start compounding words because individual word can have a maximum of one rise and one fall and compounds count as individual words in terms of pitch (usually).
Caine
You might also like Tanya Huff’s Enchantment Emporium and the sequel.
Dalillama:
Thanks, I’ll check those out. Downloaded the first Iron Druid book, reading now.
CaitieCat and A. Noyd
I look forward to enjoyable discussions about language but be warned, too much use of non-english writing/characters can cause problems.
—
I am resigned to speaking Japanese with a Western Canadian accent. I’d prefer to focus on NOT saying anything grossly stupid over getting my tongue and teeth in the correct configuration.
—
I’m currently considering working toward the Level5.
You Level2s are waaay too sempai.
Currently, Mrs. BDC and BigDumbDog #2 are having a snoring contest and I’m not sure who is winning, but I know who is losing.
Rev
earplugs and booze
@chigau
Ahh, I thought you were further along for some reason. Like level 3. If you weren’t sure, my comment to you above reads. “Oh, crap! . . . . Just kidding. Let me know if there’s something you don’t understand.”
Oh, and I haven’t passed the JLPT level 2, but I’ve done a couple official practice tests and know that’s about where I fall.
Ogvorbis
Recalling our discussion of Stewball some time ago, I recently ran across a version by Cisco Houston which appears to be the halfway point between the version you know and the one I do.
A. Noyd
My abilities in Japanese are largely self-taught and therefore wildly uneven and eccentric.
I did two years of university-style instruction 20 years ago and have worked on it on my own since then.
I have several trips to Japan (Tokyo) under my belt and a constant involvement with my local Japanese Cultural centre.
and saint-like patience on the part of my current 日本語 instructors.
Dalillama, thanks for bringing the Iron Druid Chronicles back into my consciousness, I am enjoying the first book very much.* There’s wit, there’s humour, so far, no idiocy or punching down.
*Although every mention of Tír na nÓg switches my brain back to the Disc, because Nanny (Gytha) Ogg slyly uses that as her address. :D
I’ve vowed to post more on Pharyngula, but my self-criticism has prevented me from doing so perpetually. This will be my second attempt at integrating myself into the Horde and as such my second introduction. I’m 21 and have identified as an atheist since about age 14-16, give or take a few months. I’ll post/reveal more, but long story short I was a white ostensibly cis male that came to FtB last year. FtB changed many of my opinions wrt feminism and I’ve recently begun to discover that I am, in all likelihood, a trans woman. I love various forms of Metal and Punk music. I also link to this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-NOZU2iPA8 because I have some history with those who introduced me to it and also am in love with the Steinberger bass that appears in the video.
I apologize if this post is an incoherent mess. I am a bit drunk and will attempt to clarify ASAP.
CaitieCat: while I’m suire I’m not local to you, I do love anime and almost unanimously will watch sub over dub when given the option. I’m 21 now and started watching anime some 6 years ago with Inuyasha et al on Adult Swim. Of course, I also had Mobile Suit Gundam, Outlaw Star, and others on my early otaku resume. I took something of a break in the past few years but have made a magnificent rediscovery of anime. If you have any series recommendations I would love to hear them. Most recently I’ve watched Madoka Magica. I’m also a lover of Japanese cinema and something of a Kurosawa worshiper.
Good morning
Catie Cat
You’re a translator / interpreter?
Cool.
I sometimes do gigs as an interpreter although I have no formal training in it which makes it even harder as it is anyway.
Also, people tend to treat you like shit. You’re not a person, you’re a thing that does a job. This is often related to pay: the less they pay you, the shittier they treat you. The worst treatment I ever got also opened my eyes to the Good Guy™ phenomenon. By somebody who called himself my “comrade” and “ally” and a “feminist” (so feminist that his charitable work in Cuba is mostly motivated by the opportunities to fuck “exotic women”). I actually had agreed to act as an interpreter for the sake of his Cuban counterpart who’s not a Good Guy™ but a decent guy and who was in that Good Guy’s™ power because this guy was the gatekeeper to means and material they needed for their work.
Well, that evening I had a fever. I’d caught a nasty Strep B wound infection (my life in the words of Jane Austen: She went to the tropics, caught a fever and died). But the Good Guy™ didn’t care. He insisted to interrupt me and translate something for him whenever I tried to have as much as a few friendly words about the weather with my Cuban friend adn he kept me talking for hours. After I’d already had a day’s work at the Youth Project I was coordinating. When I had a fever. They took me to the hospital the next day. But isn’t he a Good Guy™? Sadly that was when I was still fully set on “my needs are not as important as the needs of other people”.
+++
Books: I’m still hooked on Tamora Pierce though I have some excerpts from other writers on the tablet at the moment. Mostly from female writers I noticed during the fantasy writers debacle.
+++
And something nice:
Well Mr. is working through some “Good Guy™” assumptions. Last week I managed to get him to understand heteronormativity because he thought he was “sexual orientation blind”. We talked about the fact that once you accept that homosexual people exist you suddenly notice that there’s a lot of them and he mentioned that they had an apprentice who’d informed them about him being gay the first day.
He said “I don’t care, I don’t treat people differently, no matter what their sexual orientation is, so it’s not important to me”
I remarked that while it’s true that he doesn’t care, it’s also true that he and society at large act like everybody is straight until declared other and that not being straight is still treated like a deviation from the norm instead of one of the possible variations.
He brought the “but most people are straight” canard and I found a comparison that worked for him: Most people are right handed. And we used to treat left handed people like there was something wrong with them, we forced them to change and we talked about “good hand and bad hand”. Nowadays we don’t do that anymore. And what’s more important, we don’t make assumptions about people being right-handed just because that’s the majority. He didn’t assume that his kids were right-handed and then was surprised the little one is left handed. No, instead he assumed nothing and simply looked at which hand she was using.
That clicked for him.
I’d guess (David M. would probably be able to tell us) that this would be similar in many languages. Traditional Japanese farming involved very little livestock, but the distinction is going to be important in any culture where livestock is central to agriculture, since castrated and intact male livestock are used in completely different ways (for meat, manure and traction vs breeding).
It’s the same in German. And I think it’s also because in a rural setting that’s quite important information, because an ox will pull your plough while a bull will plough you.
What I was surprised to find out is that there are gendered words for foal in English. And that there’s a hell lot of collective nouns for groups of animals while German has only 4 (I think): Rudel (for 4 foot predators), Herde (4 foot herbivores), Rotte (wild boars), Schwarm (insects, fish, birds).
“(it is intended as a flaw in Harry’s character)”
Also, Garrett (books by wossname, another author) is up-front about having been something of a shallow shit in his yout. I like it when authors recognise their protagonists are unlikely to have started off as paragons of virtue.
-And if you have read the detective novels about detective Frost, you will almost certainly have been appalled by the jargon. Frost himself is described as a fairly decent bloke, but embedded in the sexism and crap you can expect to find in a 1980s British police station. I very much doubt the author uses the same jargon as home. Frost is depicted as a flawed working-class man with integrity.
Thanks, everyone :)
*
opposablethumbs:
I don’t know why it struck me that you remembered what I had said about living in my current place. I think in general I assume that what I have to say isn’t that important and so people probably don’t remember much. Thank you very much for remembering :). Yes, the move solves a lot of problems that I was having in my current town. I really hope it works out for us.
*
Thanks for the help, Giliell. I’m a little bit scared of getting it done and I might put it off until after I move, but it will get done!
*
A. Noyd, Caitie Cat, chigau:
I was a Japanese minor in college and so much of it has gone away. I was barely able to follow what you were saying and sometimes not at all. Ugh. I need to get back into it. Luckily it seems that I can still read hiragana. It was fun to practice again, so thanks!
*
Welcome, sethmassine. Somewhere around here we have a chocolate sauce lake.
*
Welcome to you too, nyarlathotep! I definitely remember seeing you around.
I remember you, nylarathotep! Such a lovely name. :) Good to see you around again. We have many people who just stop in now and then, even once a year or so, so no pressure to participate except when you feel you want to.
Tpyos: “yout” should be “youth” but the sequester did me in.
And the author of Garret is Glen Cook.
— — — — — — — — — — —
“will watch sub over dub when given the option”
Dubbing is an abomination.
— — — — — —
Sweden, hotbed of violence and debauchery: Drunken moose gang flees Stockholm cops http://www.thelocal.se/49908/20130828/
Caitie Cat:
At least it’s not tone accent! I’m currently debating whether to resume my interrupted Japanese studies, or take a stab at Chinese. But the tonal structure of the latter is insane, and I don’t think I could cope with that. With Japanese, you might mix up “bridge” and “chopsticks”, say, but with Chinese you can really screw up if you get the contours wrong.
Hey Parrowing! I remember thinking it must be very hard to be something of a stranger in a strange land like that, and also immersed 24/7 in a second language (which can be very tiring, because you don’t necessarily get many opportunities to just relax your brain back into your mother tongue. I’m reasonably fluent in another language, but still get that relaxing feeling when dropping back into English). And that element of isolation being exacerbated in a smaller, less varied community. So the first thing I thought of when I saw your comment about the move was that things might be looking up for you on several fronts, which is great. I’m glad I remembered. Hope you don’t mind that I just popped a cross-Channel/trans-national hug into the USB for you :-)
(Um, I think you’ll find that sounds just like me talking, actually! That’s one of the reasons I tend to be fairly quiet a lot of the time and just post occasionally) But you’re just as much a Horde Lounger (Lounge Horder?) as anyone else, dammit. Personally (though I usually have a rubbish memory, and keep getting threadrupt) I’m always really interested to see what is happening with far-flung Horders. Glad to read your good news! ::waves from Blighty::
Nyarlathotep:
Welcome back.
Oh, and your post was coherent to me :)
*waves back* to opposablethumbs <3. Thank you for the hugs and your kind words. I always greatly enjoy reading your posts. I'm proud to be a Horde Lounger though I still do want to branch out beyond the Lounge. I guess that's part of a long-term plan.
I actually feel like I let myself down because, since this town has taken it out of me and made me never want to leave my apartment, I actually get very little exposure to Swedish. I can speak it, but I'd probably be tons better if I could get past this not wanting to go out thing. I'm really hoping this will change with better public transportation, more places to be transported to, and the fact that I feel less "on display" in bigger cities than I do here.
Parrowing:
What you have to say is important. You are speaking of your life. Your passion. Your drive. You are talking about the things you care about and enjoy (I am soooooo jealous you got to ride in a hot air balloon). Your life is important. When you share your experiences and thoughts with others, that is valuable.
****
Giliell:
I am glad you were able to explain that to Mr.
Your analogy helps me understand ‘heteronormativity’ too.
nyarlathotep,
Welcome and hello.
—
Damnit indeed! I love seeing comments from the both of you :)
I live in a very small town and I 100% relate to this. And I’ve lived here for years, and lots of people know me, and they speak my native language. Can’t imagine the nervousness that would happen if I didn’t. I enjoyed the anonymity of the Big City, that’s for sure. In Chicago, no one knew me, so I could just walk down the street and not worry about having to have an unexpected social interaction. It always help when I can mentally prepare myself for them.
Fair enough. He was headed that way before banning, I’ll grant you. I didn’t mean to argue I thought his banning was premature or unwarranted in any way.
Thank you Tony :). I appreciate that. Incidentally, the hot-air balloon ride was cancelled for a second time. We’ve been trying to work it out since July 2012. Maybe next year *sigh*.
StevoR will no longer be bothering us, folks.
A young Swedish Muslim inspired by Wallenberg http://www.thelocal.se/49944/20130829/
A negation of the muslim stereotype.
— — — — — — — —
When Blue Citizen Meets Red Citizen, Coming Across the Mountain http://bigthink.com/harpys-review/when-blue-citizen-meets-red-citizen-coming-across-the-mountain
— — — — — — — —
Cornel West: Market-driven culture has destroyed virtue http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/27/cornel-west-market-driven-culture-has-destroyed-virtue/
Parrowing:
Bummer about the hot air balloon ride. Do they only offer a few rides a year, or is it a matter of lining your free time up with ride times?
Thank you, Portia. I’ve only lived in this town for 2.7ish years. I’ve met several people who, upon meeting me, have said, “You’re that American woman, right?” I’ve walked into a café alone and before I say anything and possibly give myself away through accented Swedish, the cashier will speak to me in English (granted, this happens to my husband on occasion and he’s lived here his entire life so maybe it’s just a thing that some people do).
Last month my husband and I went to pick up pizza nearby. We order from that restaurant often enough that the employees recognize us and know where I’m from. (And yes, they knew I was from the US before having met me. In fact, one of them went up to my husband in the grocery store to ask if I was American.) This time we happened to be there at the same time as one of the other Americans-In-Town (I know all of their names) and the employees were very excited to introduce us. I had actually met him once before though I hadn’t recognized his face.
To clarify, I don’t mean to complain that people are treating me poorly. On the contrary, people are going out of their way to cater to me: a reminder of certain privileges I carry with me to another country. It’s just that I prefer being able to make a first impression while I’m actually in the room :). I can’t even imagine what it’d be like to have decades’ worth of reputation preceding you.
Wow, you are a local celebrity, sounds like :) I know what you mean though, even when people are nice as pie it still makes me want to curl up in my shell sometimes. Like a turtle.
Ha! Yeah…I hear the funniest things about myself sometimes.
Random thought of the day:
I am without a thyroid. Mine was (after being discovered to be 50% tumor by mass – with said mass being 179% larger than normal) surgically removed in 2007. The remaining bits were charred to bits with radiation in early 2008.
Now, my question is: what does the inside of my throat look like now????
The delicate arrangement of veins, arteries, nerves, larynx, and esophagus – what does it look like now?
This morning I woke up in the predawn gloom from a very vivid dream where I was feverishly packing to flee from the oncoming zombie horde.
This dream featured my sister, among other people (she was a zombie, and then she wasn’t, and then she was a zombie-infectee).
I awoke in a cold sweat. I felt so odd that I actually tweeted at my sister asking her if she was a zombie.
She replied, “No, but even if I was, I’d spare you.” :D
Well, that’s unexpectedly pleasant news for the morning, Portia @202. Thanks for the pick-me-up.
Now there’s just tiberiusbeauregard, and SLC1’s ever-changing moniker, and his Worst Clown Show In the World partner, Don Williams, and a half-dozen other complete jackass timewasters.
Getting there!
The ones I never get are the ones who come in, set up a ‘nym, and then their only comment is “Wow, this place sucks, your writing is shit, why do you even bother, no one cares what you say.” And they don’t seem to recognize the bizarreness of centring one’s own opinion so strongly that they then comment on posts they claim to have no interest in. I honestly don’t get why people do that.
Moggie @195: Totally! Actually, Mandarin is on my list for long-term acquisition, but I really, really don’t want to be trying to learn both Chinese and multiple Japanese versions of the same hanzi/kanji at the same time. Yipes! I’m having enough trouble just trying to learn the Japanese versions, let alone five new Chinese ones. :)
Parrowing: I’m loving the language chat too, though I’m trying not to put too much of any given comment into not-English, to make modding easier. Not that I think PZ’s gonna suddenly reckon I’ve decided to become antagonistic to the Horde and figured that Japanese would be the best way to do that, but still. I think I might start doing ongoing mono-language discussion posts – mono in the sense of only one second language at a time, I mean. So, a post for Japanese, and another for Russian, and another for French, and so on. Just…like a lounge, but language-oriented. People who don’t speak the languages in question would be welcome, but shouldn’t expect anyone to do their translation for them (the Google is getting better and better, now that they’re effectively crowdsourcing their glosses).
Actually, I really like those ideas. I think I’ll start on Monday.
A Noyd: Yeah, those are pretty common problems to most translation issues. I remember once in Russian translation class, our prof telling us about the translation of a book called (in English) “Life is my Sister”. In Russian, “life” (жизнь – сестра) is feminine, so they ran into trouble when they reached Czech, in which “life” is masculine. So – how do they translate the title now? Saying “Life is my brother” is a different statement from “Life is my sister”, in a whole bunch of sociologically-describable ways.
Still, I really love doing translation, and I’d love the challenge of doing it in Japanese, I just don’t think I’d try to do so professionally.
My dream job? Would be finding history academics who want help with primary material or journal articles, particularly regarding World War II, since I speak all and translate most of the major languages of the conflicting giants except Italian (pace Brazil, Norway, Denmark, Holland, Poland, China…). I’m a major history buff, always have been, with a focus on European from 1800-present. So, getting to read and write and translate history? Would be 100% weapons-grade awesomium.
Tony:
Yeah, I was bummed. It’s a combination of them only running from May to September, us living several hours away from their location, and it costing a fair bit of money to stay there overnight, which we’d have to do. We combined it with other more necessary reasons for going to that city but that means that if it gets canceled, we’re out of luck until the following year. Unfortunately it costs money to renew the ticket each year.
Re: translations:
There was a high-fantasy author that I used to read voraciously (until she dropped a flat-out racist turd in a book) who complained about the Japanese translation of one of her books.
Her book featured a same-sex couple that (initially) was a younger, wide-eyed innocent with an older man who is bitingly intelligent and cynical. As time went on, the younger man (1) grew up, (2) stopped being a wide-eyed innocent, and (3) became bitingly intelligent and cynical himself. So the relationship (while starting as a classic “old pervert and his sweet young thing” trope) evolved. Okay.
So the Japanese translation translated them as being a classic bishōnen-type coupling. Which, for the first bit, was semi-fine. Among other things, the younger man always used super-formal inflections of the “you outrank me and I’m very proper” type. Which clashed a bit with the rest of his characterization (i.e. backwoods yokel who has moved to the Big City), but whatever. But this really got gross and weird when he grew up and – among other things – uses those inflections while addressing a baddie who has just tortured him and made him watch a massacre. And then he’s still using those inflections while yelling at his lover and insulting him (he’s angry about not being respected enough).
(The Japanese translation also apparently had issues with inflections for a group of professional female soldiers – the foul-mouthed wisecracking cold professionals apparently either talk like schoolgirls or prostitutes.)
nyarlathotep @186: Chaotic Greetings, Old One! Nice ‘nym. Just no dropping the Colour Out of Space on the thread, okay? I don’t wanna turn all grey and lumpy and evil.
Recommended anime. Well, I’ve watched a bunch – only started up myself a few years ago – and found that my taste is quite different than a lot of people’s, so take this with a field-issue salt lick, but:
House of Five Leaves: Very short, like 11 or 12 eps, this is a vaguely Edo-period story about a small group of people who hang out at a particular tea-shop (hence the name). The art is gorgeous, and different from almost any anime/manga I’ve ever seen. The pace is slow, and the concept is mostly just finding out who these people are to one another, how they got here, and what their connection is.
Shinreigari / Ghost Hound: 2 blocks long (26 eps), this one caught me not least because of the amazingly cool opening theme, Poltergeist, which is by a great jazz trio (sax, bass, drums, plus voice) whose name I can’t remember just now, nor locate easily with teh Googs.
Mushi Shi: 2 blocks again, this one about a strange fellow, a “mushi master”, who travels around vaguely-Edo Japan helping people out with their “mushi” problems. Again, very quiet, I think there’s almost no fighting in it, but a fascinating mythology, and the disorders the people have from their mushi interactions are vaguely Lovecraftian and creepy.
Ookiku Furikabutte: Straight-up shounen, this one’s a high school baseball team from a low-ranked public school, with a woman as coach, and their entry and play in the great spring and summer tournaments. If you like baseball, particularly “small ball” baseball if you know what that is, then you’ll love this. The lead character, Mihashi Ren, has a serious background of bullying from a previous team, and the series is about his recovery from that, with the support of his new teammates. I’ve watched this one a few times. Two blocks for the first season, with a second season of one block, total of 39 eps.
Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhoold: This series is, IMNSVHO, much better than the first one they did (no “Brotherhood” in that title), runs five blocks (108 chapters of manga, too!) for 65 eps. This is my favourite anime series, and is the reason my blog is called “Fullmetal Feminist”. :)
Rideback: A just-turned-pro ballet dancer becomes injured and has to give up dancing, and becomes fascinated by these motorcycles that are really reconfigurable robots. I love this one, a short 11 episodes, not least because the hero is a ballet dancer, and she totally kicks ASS on the rideback when she gets one. Not really fighting-oriented, though there is some action.
Eden of the East: This, along with the two followup movies, is a really fascinating, strange show, that’s kinda hard to describe. It starts with a very rich douchebag who’s given a huge pile of monay to 12 people, and told them to remake Japan with it. It gets very complex from there, but it’s a really fascinating series of media.
Bamboo Blade: A more traditional anime, shounen but aimed at women, about a kendo club at a school, and its impoverished teacher, and the girls’ team. Not the boys’. There are some boys in the club, but they’re basically cheerleaders for the girls’ team. Definitely watch the bits after the credits.
Ghost in the Shell (a group of shows, sequential but not directly following one another, if that makes sense): this one’s a cyberpunk thing, a lot of fun, kinda fanservicey for my usual taste (the leader of the team, The Major, is a woman, but she appears to favour very strange choices in clothing for the head of a special ops team, like high-cut bodysuits with bare legs, or low-slung jeans showing off her thong underwear, and such. These elements make it a bit borderline too sexist for me, but the show’s interesting, so I’m hanging in so far.
Seirei no Moribito: I love this show. LOVE LOVE LOVE. The protag is a spearwoman, and she is AMAZING with it. She’s also got clear muscle definition in her arms, practices onscreen and regularly, and is a serious badass at her job (bodyguard for hire). She’s a samurai without a sword, in effect, with the same level of commitment and practical honour as one expects in a samurai.
Samurai 7: A remake of Kurosawa’s magnificent The Seven Samurai (also remade as Magnificent Seven as a spaghetti Western with Yul Brynner), set in a cyberpunkish future under a despotic ruler. Evil cyborged samurai are going bandit in the rural areas, and a village decides to hire some samurai of their own to defend it. Truly excellent, and any series with Romi Park in it is a series I’ll watch, just for her (Ms. Park is the voice of Edward Elric in both animes of FMA).
That enough to go on for a start? :D
Ok, I’m headed for the Great Lakes States. See you all on the other side.
@nyarlathotep:
Scrapped Princess and Last Exile are two I would recommend.
Oh, wow, how did I forget Last Exile? Seriously weird, but also quite cool. I’d recommend the manga before the anime, only because the manga explains what’s going on a bit more, while the anime steps in in media res, as it were, and it can be a bit hard to follow at first, like what a “Claudia” is.
It also made me laugh, though, that the space-pirate clan at the centre of the story is called “Potatoes” in German. :D
Nick Gotts (#188)
Giliell (#189)
Oh, I know it’s important for farmers to differentiate, but why not have a system for that rather than a collection of random words? I dunno about older dialects of Japanese, but modern Japanese can just tack 去勢 on the front of the word for the animal.
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Parrowing (#191)
がんばってね！
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CaitieCat (#209)
Well, scanlators are always looking for translators, if you don’t mind the fact that participating is not legal.
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@Esteleth (#211)
What author was that?
“A great democracy does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon.” –former President, Bill Clinton, August 28, 2013, on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial
Above quote is excerpted from a Salon article.
Pure bullshit. I’m agreeing with others up-thread that people die for stupid shit all the time.
Oh, also, a lot of cool anime come from light novels these days. I have this thing about going with the original source of a story whenever possible rather than an adaptation, so I’m happy that I can read well enough now to make it through light novels. Though, when I tried that with Spice and Wolf, I only made it a few chapters because the author was non-stop, verbally wanking to the supposed awesomeness of the wolf character, Holo. Was kind of icky.
A. Noyd (216):
Lynn Flewelling. Not terribly well known. Wrote a truly awesome trilogy and a longer arc that initially made me go “meh” and then stopped reading when the aforementioned racist turd got dropped.
A Noyd
Because, like the rest of English, it’s part of a jumped up creole with delusions of grandeur, and has incorporated vocabulary from all of Europe and half the rest of the world. There’s actually a whole load of highly specific livestock terms that aren’t much known outside of people who deal with livestock professionallu; there’s different words for horses depending on their age, sex, and whether they’ve reproduced, for example.
Portia</b?
Enjoy your trip.
The thing that distresses me the most, sadly, is that after the racist turd I thought back to the trilogy I loved so hard and realized that the same crap was there, but subtle enough that I could ignore it/handwave it off with “well, she’s playing with a trope, tropes are not automatically bad.”
Never claimed otherwise. I was paraphrasing a couple of different people who have claimed that the willingness of Christians to be martyrs is proof of the existence of god and the resurrection of Jesus. Sorry I was unclear.
176
@Dalillama, Schmott Guy
I just read the sequel, and loved it. (the library didn’t have the first one, you see… and I always seem to start at the end and work my way back)
Esteleth (#220)
That’s what I thought, but I wasn’t sure. Trying to think what racist turd you’re referring to. I’ve read up to The White Road and there was a lot of stuff in that book about the mountain-dwelling tribesepeople that made me really uncomfortable. But I could have missed something before that.
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Dalillama (#221)
True enough!
Mandatory drug testing for welfare recipients has been shown to be both inane and a huge waste of money. Many Republican-controlled states have passed laws to require drug testing, including Florida, where the program was a colossal failure. So why do Republicans continue down this road to nowhere?
Well, that could be one explanation. Another explanation is that Republicans have stigmatized being poor. Poverty is seen as a moral failure.
Salon link.
A. Noyd @225.
The White Road is what I’m referring to. The magical-mystical brown people with hilariously bad grammar who suddenly shift from being the wise (and very sexual – think about how often their sexual habits are discussed in comparison to how often the sexual habits of the other characters are discussed – and think about how their sexuality is depicted) dangerous-yet-helpful in-touch-with-nature funkily-religious shamans to being violent (in a horde, even!) against our lily-white heroes?
AHEM.
And said lily-white heroes consist of:
(1) A pale-skinned dark-haired guy who is described as inexplicably gorgeous and sexy.
(2) A pale-skinned blond guy who is apparently part dragon.
(3) The second guy’s albino child who is apparently entirely (in a mystical sense, of course) dragon.
@Esteleth
Yeaaahhh, all of that was extremely disappointing. When I was reading it, I was like, “Really? Really!? Please don’t do this!” Also, all that about how the magical-mystical brown people are very smelly. Which was a thing (along with sexual habits) in her trilogy about Queen Tamir, too.
*sigh*
@A. Noyd
Indeed. All that was there in the Tamir trilogy, but was subtle enough that I missed it or was able to handwave it off. But going back and thinking about it…
Incidentally, re: the Tamir trilogy, I’m sure that someone who is more knowledgable than I am could comment on the depiction of mental illness, which strikes me as a bit…off.
Granted, one could argue that Ariani’s issues were as much “knuckled under extreme stress” as anything, and that Erius was being manipulated by Niryn (making Agnalain a one-off case, rather than the mentally ill mother of two mentally ill people), but you still have the primary proof we’re offered of Agnalain’s insanity being her habits of picking a hot young thing to sex, then killing him when she got tired of him. I mean, we’re told she was also violently delusional, but a lot more is made of her sexual habits. And, of course, a character we’re led to think of as intelligent opines that the “source” of Aglalain’s issues were that her mother had her relatively late in life. Which. Um.
:-D :-D :-D Thank you Portia. (now which is the accepted set of symbols for a slightly embarrassed but happy smile?)
I got that Ogvorbis. You were clear. I was just adding my two cents … in an unclear way.
I’ve read the first of the Iron Druid books, and enjoyed it.
One day, the library will fill my request for the second. Or so it is said.
There may be Signs and Portents to herald this Miraculous Event. Just a heads-up.
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Welcomebackin, nyarlathotep!
:)
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Now, there is a(n almost-certainly) man who needed near-continual clubbing with a Clue-bat; and all anybody ever got out of wielding it, was tired.
Well, okay. And Damned Pissed Off.
Two things. The only two things that anybody ever got out of it….
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Enjoy your Great Lakes trip, Portia.
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@ogvorbis
What do these people say when confronted with the fact that jews, muslims, buddhists etc. are also known to have died for their religion? Did this thought never even occur to them?
@sonderval
A mix of “that doesn’t count,” “it’s a pity that they went to those lengths for a false god,” and blatant dismissal because the people who martyred them were Christian.
Esteleth (#231)
It’s been way too long since I read the trilogy to remember details, or I would. But, well, the fantasy genre as a whole is infamously terrible at handling mental illness. It would be nice if authors stopped treating mental illness as some trick to make their characters more interesting.
Although, the thing that I’d most like fantasy to get over is its ridiculous love of gender/sex essentialism. I mean, not only are there social systems of power inequality and separate gender roles,* but there are magical systems, too. In Fantasyland, nature itself enforces extreme differences between men and women. Also, gender and sex are rarely separate concepts—vagina-havers are women and penis-havers are men and there’s never any ambiguity unless you need a freaky villain or something.
…….
*Like in reality, but in a world of dragons and elves and magic, why not do something else?
sonderval:
I know you weren’t asking me, but I once got into a debate with my parents about this. They actually did make this argument and when I made the exact point you made, they… agreed that it was a terrible argument. It was almost as if they were either hoping I wouldn’t notice or as if they couldn’t catch how little sense it made until it was pointed out to them.
Let’s see, Republicans have alienated women, gays, blacks, latinos, college students, union members, and atheists. Who is left? Why, scientists of course.
Excerpt is from: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/56795477-90/science-scientists-gop-http.html.csp
@CatieCat 212 Ooooh, I have watched some of Mushi Shi and I find it completely hypnotic. I may need to check out some of your other recommendations…
@A. Noyd 237 That is something that drives me crazy. What, you decided to invent a whole totally different world, and yet it just happens that the strictly enforced gender roles line up exactly with those prevalent in the real world? If you want to show me a really strange and alien world, play with that! I have lost much of the patience I used to have for that sort of thing. At the very least, if that kind of social system exists, I expect some exploration of the consequences of it, or I am not going to continue reading. (Do you hear that Raymond Feist? This is why we are finished.)
None of them were actually ever martyred for their faith. Those were just simple executions or murders. Only a True Christian can be a martyr because they are the only ones who actually have the True Faith. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc., know that they should be Christians but are lying to themselves and, since they are lying to themselves about their beliefs, they cannot actually be a martyr.
Sadly, this is not a joke. This was explained to me by the minister of an independent baptist church down in Maryland. It was a sermon (I got roped into going to my friend’s church a couple of times — it was entertaining and the things they do with Jell-o are frightening). And he was dead serious. Also, according to him, Catholics can’t be martyrs because they worship the pope, not god. He also claimed, in this sermon, that, worldwide, there were 200,000 Christians martyred to god in 1983(?).
On the fictional world-building: the idea I’m turning over in my head right now to write is, “What would the world look like, a thousand years after the founding of Rome, if the monotheism thing had never really caught on? If the Jews were still the only ones with a monotheism thing, or there were tiny sects of Christians and Muslims, but the rest of the world just drifting away from polytheism.”
What countries might exist? In what forms of government? What happened to Rome? How fast would technology move, without the weight of religious dogma pulling it down? Would there be Romans on the moon? On Mars? Leaving the solar system? Or Chinese, or Zulus, or who knows who?
Would there be a history of colonization? Would there be an America, or would there be the Union of First Nations, a massive community of nations who wouldn’t have been wiped out by dominionist Christians? Would Timbuktu be Silicon Valley? What would have become of Latin? Would it have splintered into half a dozen major languages? More? Fewer? Would English exist? Would there be English or Swedish or Czech kings?
My goal is that once I’m on disability, and have an income that is secure enough (though small) to prevent the huge stress I’m under, I’m going to start working on designing that world, and finding the stories it has to tell. And you bet I’m going to be asking my friends here at FTB who are also history buffs, and making sure that world makes sense and is practical.
Also, it will have very little misogyny, and complete acceptance of whatever consent-based sexuality people want to have. Trans* people will be treated with respect like anyone else. Not because I think they’re likely in that world, but because that’s the fantasy world I want to read about, and this author is gonna Fiat like no one ever Fiated before.
I watched the events honoring the 50th anniversary of the 1963 March on Washington, and I saw President Obama, Michelle Obama, Jimmy Carter, and Bill Clinton link arms and wave to the crowd at the close of the celebration on Wednesday. There were no Republicans as featured performers. No Republicans spoke.
That would be a very loud, “NO” from Republicans. Everyone heard it.
Robert Silverberg’s Roma Eterna has a that premise, on a loose timeline between ca AD500 and AD 1970(He uses the Roman calendar in the stories,of course). It’s a collection of short stories filled out and strung together into a more or less novel, culminating with a group of Jews in Alexandria building a rocket to go look for a Promised land somewhere that isn’t dominated by Rome. Not saying his extrapolation is perfect, but it should have some useful thoughts.
Quite possibly nothing changed; Christianity per se wasn’t really a deciding factor in the collapse of the Western Roman Empire AFAIK. Also, if you want to get rid of monotheism, it’s important that you do something to keep Mithraism a minor cult too; probably just by incorporating Mithras into any pantheon that’s popular in the legions.
Do keep in mind that what slowed down technology in China wasn’t so much religious dogma as a deeply dysfunctional economy (also a problem in Europe), and periodic changes of government that randomly stopped funding important project started by their predecessors in fits of pique. There might be somewhat more technological progress, but it might not be dramatic. Indeed, it might have more to do with the order things are invented than the speed; e.g. contraceptives could have been considerably better earlier than they were, and different research priorities might see that happen, even though general technology is no better.
Things to keep in mind: Disease, specifically diseases spread by/mutated from those spread by livestock. AFAICT, the fact that there were very few species of livestock in the Americas is one reason the various poxes, flus, etc. were so very devastating, because they had come from the livestock originally, whence Europeans got exposure and thus resistance. The best way I can think of to solve this is if livestock trades are one of the first things that happens, and they happen before large scale social contact with Europeans. In one alternate history that I worked on, St Brendan’s monks and the Norse Vinlanders both established successful outposts in the 10th and 11th centuries, and traded cows and swine with the natives (the monks deliberately using cowpox inoculations as a means of conversion, because they are catholics, after all), which, combined with the fact that a number of the disease organisms in their advanced state didn’t survive the conditions of the North Sea (true; it’s one reason the Scandinavian countries had fewer plagues, the others being generally more cleanly habits and lower population densities), which prevented the levels of devastation found in Our TimeLine
Yes. Rome was already pretty serious about that long before christianity came along, and the various other empires were no better (Persia, Qin, Kush, Carthage, etc.)
Probably; any number between 2 and 50 is easily justifiable, depending on what geopolitical history looked like. If the Roman Empire is still around in some form, probably towards the lower end, but there’ll be a lot of pidgins and creoles based on it.
Yes, although if there wasn’t a Norman conquest it would sound very different indeed.
English and Swedish certainly; there were already kings (and reigning queens; see Boudica) in what’s now England and Sweden, linguistic and cultural antecedents of the current majority populations in those areas, well before Constatine, and in the case of the Anglo-Saxons, before the alleged birth of christ (The Swedes might already have been there at that time, but there’s no confirmation). Czech maybe not; there wasn’t an ethnic group identifying as Czech until the 6th century AD, and the name appears to have been chosen for a cultural hero who founded that particular group. That figure, and hence the name, might be subsumed in the butterfly effect, but there would certainly be East Slavic monarchs of a variety of nations, regardless of whether any of them were Czech per se.
Eeee, yes, exactly that. Naptime for me now, afternoon meds, but back later. Thanks for the good starting points. :)
Inverting and otherwise playing-with gender tropes (including having a a trans* protagonist) was one of the things that initially drew me to Flewelling’s stuff. Because, frankly, High Medieval culture that’s rather patriarchal but is ruled by a line of matrilineal warrior-queens? And the reason why they have said warrior-queens is “the gods say so”?
I found that downright refreshing.
nyarlathotep, I remember you. It’s great to see you again.
Been meaning to say this for a while…
Dalillama–you are a veritable fountain of knowledge. I am in awe of how much you know about so many topics.
@Esteleth, ogvorbis
Thanks, I feared as much. So if you are not a christian, you cannot be a martyr because you do not die for the real God and the fact that only Christians die for the real God (TM) proves how real that god is. Logic, how the heck does it work?
@Parrowing
At least they admitted it – I think that is already a step in the right direction, acccepting that an argument they made was wrong.
Tony
Thank you; hazard of spending my childhood reading, instead of playing outside, having a social life, or actually learning any useful skills. Also, to be fair, I had to look up when the Czechs turned up, and I also wasn’t certain about the Swedes, or whether the Kushite and the Qin empires were coextant. A lot of what looks like knowledge is actually just research skills; in meatspace I would have included more qualifiers in most of that because I wouldn’t have had the chance to stop and verify everything I was spouting off about.
Oh ye gods…
There’s a local Christian bookstore that is running a promotion for “grandparents’ day” right now – they are offering a discount to people who, and I quote, “Grandparents, make your favorite Bible story out of legos with your grandchildren and bring it for us to display during our grandparents’ open house weekend”. I want so badly to bring a bunch of copies of the Brick Testament and lay them out everywhere – I bet it would take awhile for them to notice why it doesn’t quite fit in…
I always wanted to see an Alternate Timeline where Europe was ‘colonized’ by everybody else.
carlie:
Ooh, there’s so much to choose from! You could depict biblical marriage… but you’d need a shitload of LEGO for Solomon’s seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines. It would be cheaper to show David buying a wife for two hundred foreskins, or that passage in Ezekiel in praise of big dicks.
Tony, that will do nicely! I am still having difficulty locating the hearth, however. At any rate, has anyone in here been to the Hamfest of a “Museum” that creationists have wasted millions on? I’d be interested in hearing about the visit, if so.
Ik ben jarig! Ik trakteer! Koffie en taart.
Sorry to have missed the discussion on translation issues. I did my masters thesis on translation of theatrical texts, specifically plays. Coming at it from a dramaturgical rather than technical perspective was interesting work. Too bad I haven’t turned it in yet, 8 years later. Yeah, I ought to see to that.
URGENT. If you can, please contact Monarch Airlines and ask them not to participate in the deportation of Mariama N, a lesbian asylum-seeker who is facing forcible return to The Gambia.
In other news, I’ve also complained to the BBC this week about the misgendering of Chelsea Manning in its news coverage, which I found horrifying.
@Dutchgirl
You didn’t miss it. At least, I’d love to hear more about translating if you have anything to add. Like, I wonder how translating plays compares to translating comic books.
Sethmassine:
I have not visited the Creation museum. However, PZ has. IIRC, he wrote a blog post about it. You my be able to search the archives via ctrl-F for it. Or perhaps someone has a link.
Indeed, A Noyd – I’m always happy to talk languages, linguistics, translation, whatever. Don’t mind answering questions about any of the languages I know, either (English, obviously, but I’m also a proofer professionally; French, particularly Canadian French; German German, not Austrian or Swiss; and Russian), either.
Time to go. Client to meet uptown. About a km and a half up the (little-used, I live beside them) railway tracks. Meds in, Docs on, cane up, door locked, iPodded*, go.
* One ear. Don’t teach Nana how to suck eggs (I have four grandkids). I also know the schedule well, because, again, I live beside the tracks. :)
Lynna:
I came across this article and thought of your comment @243:
http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/cain-scott-van-susteren/2013/08/29/id/522811?promo_code=12289-1&utm_source=12289Raw_Story&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1
Does Herman Cain think the March on Washington was a conservative effort?
All:
https://proxy.freethought.online/butterfliesandwheels/2013/08/guest-post-josh-has-the-ear-of-vermont-public-radio-so/
Thanks for the well-wishes. I have arrived, collected my niece, and traveled on to my mom’s. which is empty except for my grandpa. Who thinks I came here to wait on him. Yeah…no. Saying you want tea to no one in particular is not a substitute for looking me in the eye like I’m a person and asking me to please make you some tea. *deep breaths*
Popsy is so delightful she outweighs that annoyance though. : )
Hope everyone’s well. *hugs* all around.
I went out for drinks last night. Boy was that a waste of time.
In any case, while sitting at the bar a woman walks up and orders a drink. While waiting, she notices a tattoo on my arm. *while* she asks me if she can look at it, she proceeds to lift my sleeve. I inched away and firmly but politely said no. After explaining to her that my personal space is my own and that I appreciate being asked first, she apologized (3 times in fact). She mentioned being a tattoo artist and how that happens to her a lot and how she should have known better. After the first apology, I lifted my sleeve for her and we talked about tattoos briefly. I also made a point of thanking _her_ for apologizing bc so many people do not.
Tony:
Nice that she realized and acknowledged the infraction.
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Cynical me has had too many people intentionally push boundaries then profusely apologize when called on it. I hate that. Not that that lady was like that, I just hate that.
Portia:
Hope you get time to enjoy yourself. Hows the weather?
****
I can think of a certain tentacled Poopeyhead who might take interest in this:
[Excerpt]
Tony:
The weather is actually much more temperate now. Hopefully warm enough tomorrow that Popsy and I are impelled to go swimming. I also found her some strap on rollerskates at a second hand store, so I’m going to enjoy introducing her to them. I will have time to enjoy myself spending time with her, as that will be the next several days. My grandpa will have his home care worker come every day of the next several, so I won’t have too much pressure on me to care for him. He just gets under my skin really easily. : p
But this will be fun, hopefully. I’ve never had a kid to myself for this long, or been the only caregiver for that long. So that’ll be a new experience :)
Hello! First time posting at the Lounge (I’ve left a few comments on some of the more, er, combative posts), but I have a quick posting-on-FTB-specific question: How do I go about posting via my WordPress login on an iPad or iPhone, particularly one that’s connected via 3G? It seems that when I’m logged in to WP on either of my iOS devices it takes forever to load the page, particularly as the number of comments grows.
I apologize if this has been answered before – I tried to do a search but the results I got were so scattershot I felt I couldn’t further refine the search usefully.
Hello and welcome in darkwater.
I wish I had an answer for you, but I am not versed in tech stuff at all. Someone around here is though.
Using my precognitive abilities-eat yer heart out Sylvia Browne-I see that someone shall answer your question in the next 24 hours. /mild snark :)
welcome in, darkwater. I am not the person with the knowledge you seek, but I wish you luck.
—
Cute kid story ahead, warning:
I chose Mulan for us to watch, and Popsy has seen it before. So I thought I’d try to do a thing I read about where you interact while watching tv, and she was starting it herself by telling me about the characters as they appeared. So at one point I asked “Do you know why Mulan is sad?” She said matter of fact, “No, why don’t you tell me why Mulan is sad?” Can’t argue with that.
Portia:
That is a cute story. If Popsy is on the ball like that the whole time, you will both be entertained!
*** *
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/29/saudi-arabia-adopts-first-law-to-criminalize-domestic-violence/
darkwater
Welcome. I use an iPad but I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
Have some virtual grog?
Tony:
She is, and I’m sure we both will. She’s always on the ball, notices things you wouldn’t expect. Her cousin, my nephew, is six weeks older. He has funny quirks too, that the adults always snicker over and kid about. She joins in the good natured joking like she’s ten years older than he is. We love it. Thanks for appreciating it. As punishment, here’s sanother story:
Out of the blue earlier, she asks “What’s a phenomenon?” All I could say was “You.”
Tony:
I really hope that the law in Saudi Arabia is actually enforced.
Portia,
Popsy sounds delightful. I’m glad she gets to spend time with someone like you!
–
Tony,
Thanks for being able to let people know about personal boundaries. I know I always appreciate when people ask before they touch, and being reminded when I forget to ask. Which isn’t often, I’m not a touchy feely person, but I know I’ve done it before.
–
Loungers, on a completely personal note, I got some mail today I didn’t expect. It is regarding work/school. If anyone is up for giving career advice I would much appreciate it. I’m sort of in a panic/terror, this mail not being expected (but wanted?)… I can expand if anyone is interested in giving advice, but I’ll refrain if not. Quite a bit of personal detail will have to be given, and I’m a bit afraid of putting that out here with my ‘nym. (Which I noticed was quoted in the pit recently, scary!).
yazikus:
Thanks for saying nice things :)
email me at bravoportia at the goggle mail thingy, if you want to talk. I’ll be up for a bit longer.
(Not that I’m guaranteed to have quality advice, but I can at least listen)
You personally? Yikes, indeed.
chigau, much thanks for the grog. The commenting account I use here is via WordPress, which works fine when I’m at home on my main computer. When I view FTB on my iPad, the site comes up just about as quickly on it as it does my computer if I’m not logged in to WordPress. If I am logged in to WordPress, it takes an inordinate amount of time for any FTB page to load on any of my iOS devices.
I guess I could expand the scope of my question: do people here use WordPress to comment, or one of the other options? And how well do they work on mobile devices connected via 3G? Thanks.
Yazikus:
I do not think I would be of much assistance to you wrt career advice. There are several people here who likely would be. Each individual’s desired level of privacy is highly respected here, so if you do share info with someone, I want to reassure you that the good people here will do nothing to violate that trust.
****
That reminds me…I posted this a while back, but I still hold to it:
if anyone wants/needs to talk about good things, bad things, triumphs, sadness, joy, frustrations, anxieties or whatever, and they do not want to do so publically, feel free to email me @ tanthonyv at the yahoo thingee. I know there are a lot of people who, for whatever reason, are not comfortable with being social, but I just want to throw the option out there. I may not have the answer to questions, but I will listen and I won’t judge.
****
Ha ha ha
Uwe Boll needs money. The only director worse than Michael Bay actually thinks people are going to donate $500k for him to make another shitty film.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/08/29/uwe-boll-wants-your-money-to-help-him-make-a-sequel-to-the-best-movie-of-all-time/
Tony,
I don’t know about that, but thank you for the reminder. You are all kinds of awesome. I don’t know if you identify as a service industry worker, but that is always where my heart has been. I love service work so much, despite it’s many pitfalls and fails. There is pride to be had, and generosity to be given, with service well done.
Yazikus:
Yep. I have been in the industry over half my life. I started at 16 as a busser/dishwasher at a pizza buffet place in AL, and over the years moved up to server, bartender, and now, at almost 38, management (though I still bartend…I like doing it).
Service Industry is the Best. And worst.
–
But seriously, my favorite jobs have always been service industry. I love taking pride in taking care of other people. I love taking pride in preparing a fine meal, I love taking pride in preparing a fine drink. And I love it when people appreciate that.
–
I don’t know if i posted with my new tipping guidelines (care of my barista partner), 50% on a 5$ or less purchase, 40% on lunch or dinner, 20% if the service was bad.
I am laughing like an idiot: http://whatthepublicdefender.tumblr.com/
I worked in the service industry for several years myself. It was always fun hanging out with the regulars and getting up to various shenanigans after hours :)
Thread illiterate, mostly. Bouncing about last few days. Had one hell-day (back), one busy day, today, and even a creative day. Am all caught up on debts and bills, though! Next month I can start putting together a kit of hand tools for working the wood. Need spoke shaves, scrapers, knives or various sorts and . . . moar wood. There’s never enough wood.
First: to those of you who greeted my daughter so warmly (I wrote down Giliel, Carlie, Portia, Opposablethumbs, Hekuni Kat and Cicely. Tony, I didn’t write you down but you made her laugh and that made me laugh, too. Others that I have failed to mention, you count no less.):
I’m so very thankful that you exist and that you are all here and that she got a little taste of the Lounge. Your kindnesses made a gentle and, I think, lasting impression on her. I think she’ll be back. She could really use your support, advice and, most importantly, your compssionate and measured approach.
I’ve been telling her about this place for a long time and have paraphrased for her some of the things said here. While she does proclaim her faith in unowhat, it’s clear to me that her life’s arc is still rapidly ascending. We have a very strong father/daughter bond and when we have time to just talk there’s no telling where the thread will lead. She is also my chief joy in the world.
Also, I just gave her my copy of Letter To A Christian Nation to read. Not to bend her will in any way; I want to feed and nurture her mind and let her bend her own way. She has a strength that isn’t as easily bruised as many we all know. Also, she has my stubborn streak but she is much more gracefully stubborn than I.
Second: “Hello, and welcome!” to newbies and delurkers. Including but not limited to, Nyarlathotep, Sonderval, Arete and Darkwater. Come often, stay late. The Lounge never closes and the Bar is always freshly stocked. I look forward to reading what you have to say. Now, don’t worry about crowding the place. No, no, you see, the Lounge expands and contracts along the length of the Bar in direct proportion to the crowd size and does so at a speed proportional to your individual requirements. It’s all quite painless too, though some folks do report a slight wooziness that soon abates leaving a nice sparkly feeling inside.
Third: Hats off and thumbs up to all the Hordelings that were able and willing to provide needed assistance to Onion Girl. What a fine thing!
Additionally, another meritorious service ribbon to Esteleth, who played the pivot with praiseworthy style and aplomb.
____________
Will lurk now for a short while and then to bed.
Portia #282
Thanks a bunch.
I’m only on page 9.
Crudely:
*hugs* I’m glad we made her feel welcome. :)
—
chigau:
I’m on page 21. In tears.
I have the memory of a goldfish, though, and your comment made me terrified for a moment that I had ruined the ending of a book for you. I scrolled up in a panic with no recollection what I had been talking about, ha.
—
Popsy is talking in her sleep. I can’t get enough of her cuteness, even when she’s not even conscious. :)
This is from the copy cat of the other blog I posted, and it’s so accurate I’m dying. http://whattheprosecutors.tumblr.com/post/56301813778/how-i-wish-i-could-cross-examine-witnesses-with-3-words
Particularly a witness two weeks ago who my client said wasn’t present for the event, at all. This was borne out by the fact that she couldn’t remember who was there, when she was there, what she could see, or where exactly she was. The only thing she “remembered” was that my client acted negligently. And the judge explicitly relied on her testimony in ruling against my client.
*skips about in glee*
I’m going to Dragon*Con!!
@Rawnaeris:
*jealous panda*
And now that the Grenade thread is open, the Lounge will be empty.
*plays with LEGO blocks… all alone*
Portia,
although Benedict Jacka has the irritating habit to call grown women “girls”, he has writen a good bok for a younger audience: “To Be A Ninja”, also published as “Ninja, the Beginning”. It does not seem to be sexist, and one of the protagonists is a young girl.
The idea of ninjas having a HQ in a forest in Wales is alone worth the cost :)
— — — — — — — — — — —
CaitieCat,
If hellenistic culture had been allowed to disperse thorough the world without the repressive intervention of Rome, I don’t see any monotheistic religion becoming dominant.
The regions in the periphery of the Mediterranean would have been allowed to build urban civilizations at their own pace (and not so far behind Rome), keeping their own cultures (and religions) but getting a boost of ideas from hellenism.
I don’t see any one religion gaining ascendancy without the top-down enforcement by an empire.
Also, the slave uprisings inspired by stoc philosophy would have had better chance of success without Roman interventions, making a slave-free civilization a possibility millenia earlier than in our time line.
[TW: This is a response to an ableist douchebag, who is quoted in full]
http://realsocialskills.tumblr.com/post/59648426877/when-food-is-too-hard
[TW: Eating disorders]
http://realsocialskills.tumblr.com/post/59648262152/when-food-is-too-hard
This pair of posts from RealSocialSkills reminds me: I should, at some point in time, write down my Too Busy And Too Depressed To Deal With Anything Meal Planning, but I really like the suggestions at RealSocialSkills.
That’s interesting, NSQ, thanks for the links.
I know for me in dealing with chronic pain and depression both, the key is easy food. PB&J sandwich. Soda crackers. Bowl of cereal. My local pharmacy carries a few lines of small frozen meals, of which I keep a small selection in my freezer. They go into the microwave, I sit down, I eat them five minutes later. Some of them make excellent open-face sandwiches, more super-easy. Tins of soup. Toast. Dippable veg and a pre-made dip (made when I have more energy, or purchased if it’s complex). Things where the most work I have to do is butter a slice of bread, or pour milk. Chef Boyardee, if I’m in the mood for supersweet meat/sauce.
I look for things where I have to stand for no more than a minute at a time, and where I have at most two trips to the making-place (microwave, counter, whatever).
KevinKat:
Huh?
Just woke up…whats this about the grenade thread?
Someone in the ‘Dome was saying it was open again, dunno why it is.
@Tony:
The grenade thread was open for a bit, and there was an idiot troll there.
But now that you’re all awake!
*passes out the LEGO bricks*
Pushing a stroller reduces my endurance while running by half. I…am…beat…
On the plus side, Popsy’s the only one who’s ever been on a run with me, and she thinks I run too fast ^_^ She’s probably the only person on the planet.
—
*scoops up LEGOs, builds a full bar with a LEGO Shoop behind it*
birgerjohansson:
I will have to look that up :) Thanks.
Hi there
So, my favourite aunt in law is married. Ceremony was not too boring (German official civil cermeony *yawn*). The groom’s best man pushed his camera into my hands and asked me to take the pics so I was busy.
*hugs* to all
@Gilleil:
Grats to your aunt-in-law! *provides you with LEGO bricks!*
rq sighting
https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2013/08/30/if-its-a-dudebro-culture-of-course-women-wont-be-a-culture-fit/comment-page-1/#comment-680568
NightShadeQueen and CaitieCat, thanks for the links and talking about easy food… I’m having problems with that and thanks to your mention, the lightbulb just went on that making sure I eat enough actually is a real priority deserving of respect.
Mostly I live on instant oatmeal with dried fruit shaken in. No milk, no microwave, just water from the tap. It works but I’m going to need more easy food options – and more comforting and sustaining options – than just the one.
A few Moments of Mormon Madness, literary fail category:
Text on the golden plates, the stuff Joe Smith supposedly translated, was purported to be edited down to just the essentials, space being limited. And yet we have text like that quoted above. It’s like a comedy act.
Here are a few more examples:
Tony @260:
Yeah, that’s wrong too.
http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/tim-scott-declined-invite-to-attend-march-as-spectator/
Rachel Maddow takes Exxon Mobile to task: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/#52880414
I know a lot of Pharyngulites watch Maddow and will have already seen this segment, but I think posting it for those who missed it is justified. This is one of Maddow’s best journalistic efforts.
AHHHHHH !!!! Why oh why is the grenade thread active again and how did an idiot find it so fast! What happened ?? Does anyone know ?
BTW – thanks @305 Lynna, OM for the link. I don’t keep up with Maddow like I should.
Pteryxx
Not the most helpful of suggestions, because it does require a trip to a grocery store, but apples can last for months if kept at the back of a refrigerator.
Howdy, darkwater; welcome in!
–
Portia, at the risk of likening Popsy to a dinosaur—“Clever girl!”
Connected to which, look at this
:D
–
Crudely:
I hear tell it can be traded for sheep….
:P
Nothing but the best of wishes for Eldest Daughter.
:)
–
Rawnaeris:
I has an envy.
:(
–
A *return-hug* for Giliell.
–
An rq sighting!
*pops over to other thread*
Thanks for the heads-up, chigau!
–
pHred @306, you are quite welcome.
Just for fun, here’s a Maddow “Moment of Geek” that opens with a reference to “Call of Duty” and segues to element #115 Uup ununpentium (placeholder name) and other chemistry.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/#52880474
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/religion
<Every time a man touches your nipples, Jesus sets fire to a school bus.
If you give a man a blowjob, God makes a volcano erupt and incinerates a town of peaceful villagers.
Erections are actually Satan's "boner demons" possessing a man's penis. If you encounter a boner demon, you should pray for it. A flaccid penis is a righteous penis!
Every time someone has homosexual intercourse, God punishes us by letting Nickelback release another album.
Now I’m a maltheist for sure.
Just seen via http://thisisrapeculture.tumblr.com/post/59773171277/katematty-these-men-are-sex-offenders-jesse
LEGO!!! Yay
—
and rq sighting! *waves madly just in case rq pops in here too*
—
I can actually write a whole sentence when I try.
Huh. The Oatmeal comic is pretty good except for the lazy false equivalence 2/3 of the way down.
Do all comments in Stunned silence thread automatically go to moderation?
*knock knock*
why am I suddenly in moderation?
I’m in moderation on the All these Rape Flavours thread. I didn’t know some threads could work differently from others. I guess it would be pretty useful to be able to do that.
Also, ::waves to rq:: just in case you drop by here too.
…. aaand I was wrong; I’m in moderation here too.
Is there any way I can find out why? I mean, why now, after commenting sparsely but regularly for I’m-not-sure-how-many-years-it’s-been-but-maybe-three-or-four?
Ah, it just occurred to me that maybe it’s to do with having just posted a you-tubular flavour of link …
Test?
Oh those lesbian women! Apparently they are tricking gay men into having unprotected sex with them. And … it’s possible all women are lesbians. Anyway, we are damned sneaky and out to entrap men.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/center-marriage-policy-worries-lesbians-will-trick-gay-men-fathering-their-children-and-beco
Something is happening…
Bradlee Dean is suing Rachel Maddow. That’s just one item on his priority list.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/bradlee-dean-gays-commit-half-all-murders-obama-homo-and-maddow-shim
Got a message that my previous comment is “awaiting moderation.” WTF? I thought I was moderate, if perhaps a bit snarky.
Okay. Now I have two comments awaiting moderation?
Guess I’ll just forego Pharyngula for the rest of the day.
Now I have three comments in “awaiting moderation” limbo.
My comments in Thunderdome goes to auto-moderation and I’m not sure why. So, I’m just checking whether it’s a site-wide problem. If this posts, could anyone with a line to PZ ask him to check the filter? I was actually kinda happy with that post :(
Okay, we need to revise the CCC, to include something about (fully) informed consent. Help and suggestions wanted! We’ll keep the discussion here, for convenience.
Azkyroth, I fucked up, deeply and badly. I cannot apologize enough. I am so sorry.
Seems like everyone is in moderation…something is happening.
I was in moderation and then there was no one new in Recent comments so I figured no one could comment so I checked other FTBlogs and there were no new comments there either except that suddenly one or two appeared on B&W but no here and now we’re all out of moderation and everything is right with the world again!! *hyperventilating*
It’s okay! Tech Peoples are working on it, and PZ has a post up – see front page.
Phew! :-)
Lynna
Trying to repress all sexuality leads a rich and varied fantasy life.
and NOT in a good way
.
Accepted.
Thank you, and CaitieCat and Dalilama and any others I missed. I snuck back and checked that thread later. I, uh, really wasn’t expecting to have my back gotten. x.x
Azkyroth, we’ve now added this to CCC, anything we’re missing?
Crystal Clear Consent includes Fully Informed Consent. Consent granted under deception is not CCC, it is manufactured consent.
* If you use deception to gain sex–impersonating another person, lying about contraceptive use, failing to disclose STDs–you are denying your partner the right to fully informed consent.
* If you are not sure whether or not you have an STD, disclose this uncertainty. If consent is granted, take responsibility and use protection. Just because you didn’t know for sure is not a defense.
* If you whine and wheedle about using protection a/o contraception, you are not in CCC territory. You are willing to rape.
* Lying about or withholding information that, if known, would’ve resulted in dissent is rape.
* If you consent to X activity under Y conditions and the other party changes those conditions to Z, then you have not consented to what is happening.
Looks good to me.
Lynna @310:
Bwahahahahahahahaha!
I nearly laughed out REALLY loud at work reading that.
I saw rq in one of Dana’s threads sometime in the last week or two. I miss her.
Do any of you entomologist types have any idea what the hell this is:
Pinterest picture of SOMETHING from Peru
The bus driver on my ride home just now, talking to a friend: “I almost hit Sailor Moon earlier today. She ran right out in front of my bus.”
(PAX started today and downtown Seattle traffic is a little hairy.)
So quick check. Anyone else here listen to Welcome To Night Vale?
Ingdigo:
I listened to an ep a couple weeks ago. One of my friend is a Lovecraft maniac.
Ok, I’m going to try not to overload on the cute kid stories, but, swear to FSM, she just did a William Shatner impression: “Tomorrow. Is only. A day. Away.”
@Ingdigo Jump (#340)
I’m currently on ep 24. And I follow some related blogs on Tumblr. But all the ignorant, entitled little shits remind me why I usually avoid fandoms.
Pharyngula withdrawal is a terrible, terrible thing.
–
Ok, a friend is celebrating his birthday in New Orleans, and he decided to share the following on his Facebook page:
Trigger Warning
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh gad, is it that time again? Tony, that old story has been making the rounds for a *very long* time.
Cicely:
I know, right?
I thought about it a few days ago…I am on Pharyngula every day.
Tony, me, too. Even when it’s almost unbearably painful. Like today.
I can’t believe the ‘Stunned’ thread hasn’t attracted the usual freight of special, special snowflakes.
–
Rather than putting this in the Stunned thread (I don’t want to interrupt)…
I’m thinking most of the narratives come from Pharyngula Lurkers (not drive-by).
How big is the Horde?
I emailed rq the following earlier:
“And there was much rejoicing in The Lounge today, for there was a genuine ‘rq sighting’!
Tony’s behind the bar and many are *waving* :)))”
She just responded.
It seems she has something in her eye…
Happy birthday to Crip Dyke! *confetti* *chocolate cake*
I’ve been reading Altemeyer’s “The Authoritarians”.
Am I the only survivor who has read it and made some interesting connections between authoritarian types and abusers? Because I saw a lot of “High RWA” in my abuser — I just didn’t know what it was at the time.
A lot of his behaviors and attitudes are making so. much. sense. when looked at in this context that it’s almost scary.
Scratch that.
It’s bloody terrifying.
But it’s also progress towards convincing myself that I was not, am not to blame for his actions. I still haven’t been able to forgive myself for “provoking” his anger or “inviting” physical and sexual violence.
===
Happy birthday to Crip Dyke — do have a pleasant day!
Good morning
So, the party in the evening was nice, too, and for the first time in years the kids were fit enough so we could make it to the cake.
Low-point:
One of the catering women asked Mr. whether he was the father of the little girl. He answered that he was the father of both little girls and she asked him whether he’d keep trying until he got a son.
I wished he hadn’t told me.
It hurts. so. fucking. much.
No, my daughters are not failed attempts at making a “real human”, i.e. one with a penis.* They are people. They are smart, hilarious, lovable individuals and not a consolation prize.
Oh, and btw, “he” could keep trying in an old sock. Because I am not an incubator.
* I know that not all men have a penis but I think for those people only men who were born with one and are happy about it count anyway.
Chigau:
I have wondered how big the Horde is too.
***
Wait, they make chocolate cake out of confetti?
.
.
Happy birthday CRIP DYKE!
Giliell:
So sorry. Comments like that, which place greater value on having boys…aaarrggh!
The catering woman’s comment is not only sexist, but she did not even mention *you*.
You are not a nameless, faceless machine that carries fetuses to term.
You are a human being. A wonderful human being.
Giliell, *hugs*
You know better, your mr knows better and you’re teaching your daughters better than that. It hurts, but let it come as a relief that your daughters, having the two of you as parents, (will) know what they are worth and that they are loved for who they are regardless of their gender or orientation.
Apropos of nothing did you know that the word “virga” which is used to describe rain that evaporates back into the air, never reaching the ground is way to close to the word Viagara ?
And did you know that the middle of class is really the wrong time to realize that ?
I choked right there in front of class. Sigh. I usually use word associations to help them memorize terms but that was definitely an association too far.
Holy formatting change, Batman! Anyone else seeing a different Pharyngula today?
—
Giliell: *hugs*
Crip Dyke: Happy Birthday!!! :D :D :D
—
This kid just meowed the US national anthem.
No. Sorry.
Ok, just me then. Weird.
This one’s from rq:
How to talk to your sons about Robin Thicke.
boskerbonzer,
No, but then again I’m not an entomologist type.
It is rather interesting. If you think it was done by a bug, may I suggest asking these guys about it? They have helped me before.
***
Giliell,
Oh, that sucks so much. *hugs*
I know a couple who is the other way around. They had a boy but wanted another child. So they had another boy. But they wanted a girl too, so they tried again. Another boy. So they tried again, she desperately wanted a girl. Another boy. Four little boys now. I wonder if they’re done.
I know it’s none of business, but I can’t comprehend it. Having more kids than was on your plans because their genitals keep turning out the wrong way? I don’t doubt my father wanted a son to play with and do fun “boy things”, but he had a girl. Did he “keep trying” even though my mother didn’t want more children? No, of course not. He understood that my genitals weren’t actually that important and didn’t prevent me from playing with a ball with him, or riding a bike through the woods with him, or even watching a soccer match by his side. It’s not like a penis is needed to do those things, you know. Just like it’s not like a vagina is needed if you want to play with dolls with your children, or have them by your side in the kitchen cooking and having fun, or go shopping with them or whatever.
I wish more people would understand that. We really need to get over gender roles as a society already. It sucks for everyone.
Yeah, that’s an even worse implication. Amazing how stupid, wrong, and all around harmful a simple question can be.
Let’s see. Gender roles must be enforced and so you can’t do with your daughters what you would with a son, daughters are failed attempts at reproduction, and women are property which you can “keep trying” impregnating until you’re happy with the results. Did I miss anything?
Gah. I feel sick now.
Portia – sometimes it gives people the mobile view even when on a desktop.
Portia,
My FTb is the same :(
I even went to IE, deleted all the cookies but it’s still the same old ftb, only with an ad for Shermer’s book.
Gack, woke up and found the iMac running on amoeba pace. Now I can’t get to the log-in window, but can get to the external hard drives. There goes the morning.
Some of the facts in this story make me think I should look more carefully at the source/brand before I buy pork again. Aporkalypse.
Oh, fuck. Beware the ire of Bankers.
http://www.salon.com/2013/08/28/wall_streets_greatest_enemy_the_man_who_knows_too_much/
Site is loading slooooooooowly.
Put them in jail and their sheeple will continue to worship them (with them?).
Right. It’s all a conspiracy to bring down a good Christian man. Mr. Pitt is a young scam artist in charge of Whosoever Ministries. Photo at the link. Pitt and some of his followers may also be high on energy drinks, used as not recommended.
For erikthebassist (@298 on the Stunned Silence thread ) or anyone else who wants to weigh in or correct my brain mooshings – I don’t know if it’s how it all works, it’s just a connection I see in the thinking. More my brain doing what it does and seeing parallels everywhere :)
Still, it makes sense to me.
Talk to a MRA about feminism and they’ll say we’re already equal (or women have more power somehow). You say we’re not and give examples of ways in which women are discriminated against simply for being female. They say that’s rubbish, we are because it’s illegal to discriminate and women have the same opportunities, and that doing important stuff is just a guy thing or women are lazy… etc. In short, it’s their fault.
Talk to a “race-blind” person about racism and they’ll say we’re past it. Give examples and they’ll dismiss them as outliers or give false-equivalent counter examples because everyone is equal under law now, so everything is fine. If they’ve experienced violence or racism they obviously did something awful to deserve it because that shit’s illegal so it doesn’t happen anymore. Ever.
Talk to a libertarian (or any right-winger) about tax reform or affirmative action in hiring and they’ll insist we’re all equal and have the same opportunities. Give evidence that shows the huge barriers that stand in the way of people trying to pull themselves out of the poverty trap and they’ll dismiss it because we all have the same employment opportunities (and discrimination is illegal!), so therefore if someone’s not successful they’re just not working hard enough.
Hell, it’s even the same denialism shown by creationists, just based on a different set of propaganda and laws. Substitute evolution for SJ issues, the bible for “it’s the law” and not believing hard enough (or SATAN! DECEPTION! LIES!) for “all your fault”. The creobot version is just much more simplistic and less well-thought out, since the “laws” it’s based on are so mind-mashingly idiotic.
So. Much. Same.
Is this just me or does anyone else see this EVERY time some idiot comes in denying privilege or inequality?
Definitely Sophia. It’s a common thread. The funny part is that a lot of slymers in particular will even deny being libertarian, but when you drive down through their actual views, it’s right out of the libertarian playbook. so they won’t even take responsibility for their own political viewpoints!
It’s a deep level of denial, I dare say even deeper than creobotism.
I wouldn’t say deeper, just more complex and based on something that sounds much more plausible because it comes from a supposedly trustworthy source. The government and laws are supposed to protect people, and if something is against the law it’s not supposed to happen with any frequency. Also, if something does happen, it’s done by criminals, a special species of person who can be identified by evil twirly moustaches and cartoon cackling whilst stealing children to turn into asbestos-laced dog food.
In fact, it’s the same shit you get from the “if you didn’t report, you weren’t raped – LIAR! False accusations!” crowd. Rape is against the law and the law is set up to convict rapists, and the police are the people you go to to get JUSTICE, which will always happen if a crime has been committed. Because… I dunno, that’s how it happens on TV. Or some bullshit.
Giliell,
You mentioned a couple of times how you told a friend that you’re more afraid of someone talking on a phone while driving than Muslims (or something along those lines) to counter he Islamophobia.
Watch this short documentary by Werner Herzog about texting and driving, if you have half an hour. But prepare some tissues, it’s heartbreaking.
From One Second To The Next
Happy Birthday Crip Dyke *\o/* *\o/* *\o/*
And many many hugs to the Horde. I’m just reading the Stunned Silence thread, feeling – well, I’m not sure how to say what I’m feeling, except very full of awe and anger; awe at people’s courage, and so full of anger that this particular kind of courage should ever have cause to exist. So I’m particularly glad that the Horde exists.
Or if you did get raped, you could have avoided it somehow, not drinking, learning martial arts, carrying a gun or mace, not being alone, etc…
Also the trope that rape victims overblow the seriousness of the crime, “just get over it, it only affects you as much as you let it”, etc… They even call women who complain about rape, abuse or sexual harassment “professional victims”.
I was bullied as a kid. Whenever I complained to adults I always got the same answer. “Don’t let them get to you, if they know they are getting to you it will get worse” or “fight back, show them you won’t back down, they’ll go away”. Never “Who was it and I’ll go talk to their parents, the school or law enforcement if necessary”… never that.
It’s so deeply ingrained in our culture that sometimes I fear we’ll never get past it.
sorry 375 was in response to 371 and 372, didn’t refresh
@376
No worries, I got it. :)
Yep. If you fought back you shouldn’t have. If you didn’t fight back you should have. You provoked them. You didn’t report it to the teacher/parents/police/authorities who Dispense Justice.
You did report it but got no justice? Well then! You’re obviously a liar!
That the system works is a hugely dangerous lie.
Still catching up, but happy Birthday, Crip Dyke
*hugs*
Good evening
So, my parents went on their holiday today and we went over for an afternoon with barbecue for dinner so my sister could actually leave the house. Damn, it’s those situations when I like going there and am totally relaxed that I notice how much my mum gets me.
Happy Birthday, CripDyke
NIghtjar
It’s a general reason why I’m opposed to “designerbabies*”: People who cannot put up with their kid even having the wrong haircolour, let alone the wrong sex, have no business in having kids because they have a fundamentally flawed attitude towards kids anyway.
*Not talking about preimplantation diagnostics to assure a healthy kid
+++
Thank you all.
It’s horrible in so many ways. For one thing, my own grandpa called me “just another girl” when I was born and told my dad to ask his brother how it was done when my male cousin was born. Not to mention that I was born into a socially safe family while my aunt and uncle “had to get married” because she was very pregnant and very young and both of them not really finished with their education.
And 35 years later those attitudes are alive and kicking. :(
Happy Birthday, Crip Dyke.
My laptop keeps blue screening and I lose my place in the threads I’m trying to read. Rarg. At least I have the desktop version of the site back. Though the reason I didn’t recognize te mobile version is that it has never once appeared when I was actually visiting on a mobile device. Oh well.
Giliell, you have my heartfelt sympathy and as many hugs as you’d like. My FiL was a sexist asshole (as opposed to my dad, who could be a verbally abusive controlling asshole) who, after the birth of our second daughter, went off on me in front of the girls asking when I was going to give Husband a son to carry on the family name, because girls weren’t worth shit.
I blurted out that girls can carry on the family name too, and tried to say that it’s not the mother who determines whether the baby is a boy or girl anyway, but it was a lost cause. I didn’t think of it until later, but Husband and both his brothers have only ever produced daughters, so it’s Not My Fault. Not that it was anyway, I know that, but I was upset enough that I asked Husband later if he’d wanted sons. He said that he was happy with his daughters, and besides, he would’ve felt awkward hugging boys.
Then FiL didn’t deal well because the daughters weren’t girly enough for him, especially with Elder Daughter’s obsessions with trains and dinosaurs and playing in the mud. My dad at least coped well with that, even if he did get carried away with giving the girls trains and dinosaurs and anything else he thought they’d like.
PortiA;
Funny you say that, because while I was visiting from a mobile, I couldn’t make the mobile version appear but it often comes unbidden on my computer.
Sophia
Not just you.
What’s really great is when the same assholes turn around and blither about jackbooted government thugs when the subject of taxes comes up.
Beatrice
I usually couch it in statistical terms, myself. I’m several orders of magnitude more likely to die while crossing the street than I am to die at the hands of a Muslim terrorist.
Dalillama (#384)
Hell, I’m probably more likely to die getting knocked into an endcap display of cheap wine and stemware by a person texting as they walk around the grocery store than I am to die at the hands of a Muslim terrorist.
Happy birthday, Crip Dyke.
*balloons* and *cake* and *a pony* for Crip Dyke!
I’m just going to hang out here for a little while.
Husband is out enjoying some drunken revelry with his friends.
I am… trying to find that lost pack of cigarettes because the kids are in bed and I’m allowed to have two beers, right?
Go me. :)
*hugs* for everyone, I miss you all.
But this is a short-term return (until I decide I need to go to sleep).
Even if nobody responds. I’m just going to sit here with this tab open and feel alright for a while.
If that’s okay with everyone.
Hi, rq.
Enjoy the beer. Enjoy the cigs. Enjoy the quiet. Enjoy being you.
And happy birthday, Crip Dyke! I am forever indebted to you for building my relationship with the dishwasher. It was your argument (water economy, etc.) that made me see that machine in a different light, and now I’m quite comfortable with using it.
Thank you, and happy birthday. :)
♥, rq
hugs, rq
I’ll sneak a smoke with you.
I have rum.
Hey, that’s nice. Ross Perot just did something right. [applause]
Salon link.
Thank you for that, Ogvorbis.
♥ , Beatrice
chigau
Aaah, rum! I think it’s the one thing we don’t have in the household bar.
How’s the garden, rq?
Beatrice
Wonderful.
I have photos from June, but I’ve since replaced phones, and I’ll have to search up the old one, while the new one has no camera function. Slowly settling into autumn (brown-eyed-susans, dahlias, these beautiful tall bird-of-paradise-like blooms, raspberries, roses (still!), asters…).
I got word today that last month (July) was the best month for digging up iris bulbs and replanting them elsewhere (which we’re planning to do), but considering the source, I’m not sure if it was the right month numerologically or astrologically, so I suppose if we (I) get to it before October, all should be well.
The pumpkins were a waste of seeds, though – the location we planted them turns out to be adjacent to the bit of lawn that was liberally sprayed with Round-Up by Previous Owner, and they have done very, very poorly. :( The boys are sad, because no pumpkins, but we’ll try again next year.
How have you been?
Hi, rq! Great to see you.
Or a vending machine!
–
Happy birthday, Crip Dyke!
*confetti&fireworks*
–
rq!
*happy dance*
–
Hello, Dalillama!!! *hugs* (should you want them)
I hope you are well.
Hi, rq!
So, my neighbor came by (I picked something up for him at the store, and he came to get it). We chatted briefly.
He asked me about our landlord, who had sent an email out saying that he would be somewhat unavailable, as his mother-in-law is in the hospital recovering from a stroke. Neighbor wanted to know who Landlord’s wife is.
Landlord does not have a wife. Landlord has a husband.
Neighbor said, “Oh.”
Neighbor proceeded to comment that all this gayness is strange to him, as there are no gay people where he is from (Cameroon).
I do not know whether to laugh at his naïveté or cry for LGBT Cameroonians.
Oooooh, cicely, that was well-wasted beer, because I’d heard the old story of woman-as-incubator… but the image of woman-as-vending-machine was just… too much! In a good way.
(Yes, I intend to sit here and comment as much as possible while drinking more than 2 beers. I’ll be going to bed soon, don’t worry. Once my finger co-ordination descends into too many offerings to Tpyos for comprehension. Not long now, bit of a light-weight here.)
rq,
The garden sounds beautiful. The bit about iris bulbs made me laugh. Sadly, I can’t offer any advice on the topic.
I’m sorry about the pumpkins. We don’t have any pumpkins, but I could eat zucchini three times a day and still have enough to throw away. I’m getting a bit sick or zucchini.
I’m ok. Been on vacation. A couple of job opportunities that are not completely improbable (most of those I apply for are quite improbable) appeared all at the same time so I’m juggling gathering some paperwork, preparing for some tests, trying to make boss’s boss remember me for when the time (soon) comes to decide whether a position for me will open, and preparing for it to all go to hell in the end.
rq
Doing all right at the moment. There were some hard financial times, but the Horde came through for us, and L has had good business the last week or so. *hugs* back
Nightjar, thanks for the link! I just sent off a message with the images attached so maybe someone will at least take an educated stab. I did search around their site, and man, there are some nasty fungi that parasitize insects!
Dalillama
Glad to hear you’re doing better – I worry for you, always in the back of my mind. If you ever need anything that I may be able to help you with, feel free to email me. Seriously.
Beatrice
Shall I stock a jar of thumbs for you? :) I hope something positive comes through very very soon!!
rq,
thanks. Best wishes to you too.
Beatrice
What kinds of tests do you have to look forward to? I mean, prepare for?
rq,
I’m very much looking forward to psychological testing which is of course some combination of IQ test, logic and checking whether I have a desire to murder cats so I was just thinking about browsing some standard IQ tests.
Then there’s one where I actually have to study the constitution.
And there’s also the test for government workers about which I have contradictory information, so it’s possible that I must take it sometimes in Oct/Nov or that I’m not allowed to take it before next year. That one’s big so I would appreciate some idea on when it’s happening.
Hallo rq!
Nice to see you again. :)
Hi, Parrowing!!!
Beatrice
I’m sure the government will clarify in due course on that last one… well, unless it decides not to, of course. Sometime just after the deadline for application or some such. :/
I hate IQ tests, since I always seem to do well on them, but I’ve never experienced the direct benefit they’re supposed to have given me in my career choices or real life experiences. Maybe the Croatian ones are better?
Hello, Esteleth. :) How are the statistically significant results?
Some of my results are now statistically significant to p ≤ 0.0001!
Ooooh! That’s a lot of zeroes before the 1 after the decimal! Impressive! *very small but very much confetti*
rq,
I’ve never taken an IQ test. Before starting to work here, I always had just interviews so I’m not sure how IQ tests look. I hear they are very different from place to place (in length, scope), so it’s probably just a mish-mash from different sources.
I never wanted to take IQ tests when I was in high school because I was afraid of finding out/confirming I’m stupid. /ashamed
I’m sure government will inform me before the point when it might turn out that I have to pay for the test out of my own pocket because I didn’t apply on time. *glares*
Now, in the real world, there’s not much difference between statistically significant to p ≤ 0.001 and statistically significant to p ≤ 0.0001.
(translation: there’s not much difference between something being 99.99% accurate and something being 99.999% accurate).
It is just neat, is all.
Okay, yes. The difference between 99.99% and 99.999% is 0.009%. Which is:
(1) Not nothing.
(2) Very small.
Esteleth
Technically, I know… We present matching results to 0.0000000001 of a decimal point, but considering the size of the population, anything beyond 0.00001 is pretty darn conclusive. It’s still neat, though. :) Because science and math and statistics.
Beatrice
Well, whatever any IQ test tells you ever, ever, ever, from my interactions here with you and reading your comments all over Pharyngula, you are far from stupid. And no test, ever, should convince you that you are. (And the low self-esteem should go kick itself out the door, thank you. But I understand what you say.)
And the government… eh. I think we (at work) are about to engage with our government bigtime, because we have opportunity to get something awesome for (almost) free, but it will be a challenge to convince the government part of my employment to see it as cost-free and labour-effective.
I hope you don’t have to pay out of pocket. :/
Esteleth
It’s also much harder to get than the first 99+%, as I understand it.
rq,
I’m a bit tired but unwilling to go to bed, so all kind of stuff comes out that I might not have written at other times. Thanks for the support.
I hope you knock some sense into your government and get the project/equipment/thing.
Well, yes, it is harder to get than the initial 99%. But when the time comes to report the data, the graph is going to have two types of statistical markings:
(1) Statistically significant to 0.001 < p ≤ 0.05
(2) Statistically significant to p ≤ 0.001.
Doing more than that is unnecessary and would come across as braggy and trying-too-hard.
The actual p-values, if they're reported at all, will be buried in a table, probably in the supplementary information.
Beatrice
Generally speaking, what IQ tests actually measure, insofar as they measure anything, is how much education you’ve had of certain types. You’re definitely not stupid, as you’ve amply demonstrated around here.
Beatrice
I’m tired, too, and also unwilling to go to bed.
But I know the kids will be up early.
Dilemmaaa!!
(But I sincerely hope all your testing and paperwork go smoothly… Or as smoothly as the government will allow, and we both know how well that works. Heh.)
But I’m hoping to get a trip to Germany out of the whole equipment debacle. Alone (well, with a co-worker, but without the family). For two whole days. Which would be awesome. (Because the government wouldn’t have to pay for it, but the company trying to get into its good graces.)
Dalillama,
thanks.
Insecurities lifting their ugly little heads up as soon as they noticed a chance.
—
rq,
Ooooh, that sounds nice. Some of those thumbs should definitely work on getting you to Germany (this sentence must sound really weird to someone unaware of rq’s jar of thumbs (and now it sounds even weirder)).
Beatrice
Considering that we found real live human remains (bones) on one of our walks around town when my brother was recently visiting, a jar of thumbs sounds positively tame. ;)
boskerbonzer, awesome! I hope they post your images. I will keep an eye there, now I’m intrigued too!
rq,
Ah, you found some bones. Just like that. *slowly backs away from rq*
No really, you found human bones? old cemetery – bones got dug out after a flood, overenthusiastic dog..?
Dang, still having trouble with the iMac. Not able to get to the log-in window. Posting from the iPad while trying some other restore method
Beatrice
Kind of a combination…
The main river going past Town here used to have a much narrower riverbed, before the hydro dams. But this time of year, the water level is so low (or they lower it artificially) that you can walk across to what is normally an island – the home of the oldest stonework ruins (church/castle complex, I believe) in the Baltics (dating back to late 12th century / beginning of 13th).
Anyway, we went out to see it because I hadn’t been and it seemed like a fun thing, and the boys wanted to go down to the shore to find rocks to throw in the water. And we found bones – probably human, and hard to tell how old, considering bones in water tend to colour rather quickly, but some could easily be dismissed as animal bones. Until we found the human teeth (a rather distinctive thing). I’m sure glad for the forensic anthro course I had in university.
So we called the cops and they came and brought a specialist and took my name and then politely dismissed us, but I’m all full of theories.
See, it could be someone from the 12/13th century, like a Teutonic knight (hooray for the Livonian crusade!) or Bishop Meinard himself (also Champion of Scootering, according to Eldest, but that’s a different story), or a random pre-Latvia Latvian/Liv person (since where we live now is the oldest and largest documented pre-christian colonization settlement known).
It could also be random person who pissed of the post-Soviet racketeering mafia operating in the early 90s (after the fall of the Soviet Union and during the huge privatization brouhaha in the country), because the racketeers had a habit of attaching people (alive and/or dead) to concrete and dropping them into the hydro dam reservoirs, two of which are upriver from us.
And considering the flow of the river and how often the water level gets lowered/raised, I don’t have the experience to say if these bones were washed out of the sediment, or washed out upriver and brought downstream.
So yes, we ‘just found’ them. ;) (I’d much rather have found a chest of old gold coins, but… can’t win them all!)
rq,
it’s a good story with interesting possibilities. Even though the knight would have died a horrible death too, the long time span makes it just a cool story so it’s more comforting to think it’s something like that rather than a result of more recent horror of (post)Soviet crimes.
Aaaand I’ll be off to bed. I haven’t been up this late in a while. It was really good to see you, rq, I hope you’ll have time/will/spoons to hang around more often again.
rq
Did you take pictures of the bones?
chigau
Waiting for my brother to send them to me, but yes.
Some were definitely human (end of femur?, teeth), others were animal bones (since there were recognizable animal parts in the area – brought home a moose tooth, and a boar jaw, too), but I think we got some pretty definite human bones (it made the local news as human remains). I’ll try to make it back to post once he sends them to me.
Beatrice
Good night, I’ll try to come back in soon (for bone photos, and maybe some garden photos, too!). Good luck with everything!! *hugs*
+++
Well, looks like I’ll have to turn in as well. One last sneaking cigarette with chigau, and I’m out for the evening.
*hugs* *handshakes* *drinks* (that were almost *drunks*) *waves* to the Lounge.
Thanks for the quiet evening. :)
I’m glad there’s a place like the Lounge. <- No better words.
Good night!
sleep well, rq. Hope to see you again soon.
good night, rq, everyone
Hi rq! It’s good to see you!
No thumbs or anything (except a couple of opposable ones, of course) but certainly some crossed fingers for your Germany trip.
Extra crossed fingers for Beatrice’s various possible tests too.
I think I’ve just had too much Pharyngula today. Or maybe over the past couple of days. I am emotionally spent and need to go eat ice cream and cookie dough and rewatch Book One of The Legend of Korra and wallow in self-loathing pity.
Be well all. I’m not sure when I’ll have the energy to pop back in.
MM
*hugs*
rq! *Hugs*!!!!!!
Mellow Monkey – Please do take care of yourself. And enjoy Korra. :) (BOOK TWO SOON!)
The music from the party across the street was pretty loud.
But mostly it was fucking awful.
I’m glad they weren’t anywhere near my lawn.
Thanks to the amazing kindness of others, I now have a cast iron dutch oven, and am so excited. What should I cook in it?
carlie, casseroles.
Carlie,
Cast iron is the best. Are you going to use it in your oven (probably) or get adventurous and use it outdoors over something like a campfire?
carlie, everything.
John – I figured, :) just wondered if anyone had tried-and-true recipes.
morgan – probably both, but camping season is pretty much over for the year, so it will be oven use. Unless I try to get really crazy and use it on the wood stove, which I will most definitely NOT (no heat control, it doesn’t have a cooktop)
Carlie,
Basic ragu recipe. Deeply brown your lamb or beef or pork chunks in peanut oil or bacon grease (which burns easily.) Toss in your chunked root veggies and diced onion and brown a bit with the meat. Throw in whatever fresh herbs you have on hand, or whatever you prefer that is dried. Toss in about a full bottle of red wine. (Do not add salt until the end) Red wine imparts a somewhat salty flavor, so be careful. Cover and cook at low heat, about 275 degrees F or so for 4 – 6 hours, or longer. When done, pull meat apart with two forks, mix well with veggies and serve over rice or pasta. Heaven. Very forgiving recipe.
Good luck. Enjoy.
Carlie,\
Forgot the tomatoes. Add a large can of chopped tomatoes when you add the wine.
oooh, carlie!
Have you googled ‘wood stove cooktop’?
The possibilities are … endless!
A little sciencey entertainment/relaxation in case it suits anyone at the moment:
from http://pascals-puppy.blogspot.com/2013/08/its-so-simple-why-didnt-i-think-of-that.html
Best wishes.
morgan,
For a thicker consistency of the end product, first lightly coat the meat in flour; easiest way I know is to take a plastic bag, put a little flour in it, put a few raw meat chunks in it at a time, blow some air in it to make it balloon, and shake diligently.
It does cake up a bit when browning them, but red wine is a most satisfactory deglazing agent.
Portia asked , “Do you notice anything new about Pharyngula today?”
Why yes, yes I did (even before reading that question).
Even though I didn’t select the ‘Notify me of follow up comments’ box I’m getting just that.
When The Lounge is busy that’s a lotta *pa-kinging*!
Oh well, I think I’ll leave it that way a while.It makes others think I actually have a lot of friends! :)
And I do… here.
—
Glad to see rq dropped in for a while.
And left us with a cliff hanger…
*Dun-Ta-Duuunn*
Oh, and I forgot…Happy B-day Crip Dyke!
Unexpected side of the big thread: no sleep. I kept trying, kept getting too close to my nightmares before sleep arrived, waking up, lathering, rinsing, repeating. Am I the only one who never has (or at least never wakes up from/remembers) good dreams?
Sleep dep, of course, has a bad effect on chronic pain tolerance. And chronic pain intolerance has a bad effect on ability to sleep. I call this viscous* (sic) cycle “insomnialgia” and “painsomnia”.
So last night I even took one of the little pink pills** that can actually knock me down for a while…usually.
I still haven’t slept.
Tonight, two little pink pills, and much happy, inoffensive, and safe TV show on the tube, and wish me luck.
All the hugs to all the best; rq, we don’t know one another, but hihi from Canada, apologies that my Slavic knowledge is limited to Russian and Ukrainian, or I’d greet you properly. :)
* As in, it’s sticky, and the more I muck about in it, the more sticky gets all over everything, and makes it hard to separate them, and instead I just keep flailing and getting more stuck.
** Ambien. First one I’ve tried in the last ten years that actually *works*. Usually. Two is in no way a dangerous dose, and more than two I shall not try. So, y’know…luck.
CaitieCat
*hugs* and best wishes for getting to sleep tonight. Dream of fluffy puppies.
Also, rq is actually from Canada herself, IIRC.
I never have dreams that I remember, good or bad. Indeed, I have no recollection of dreaming at all, save once or twice in my childhood.
:( I’m sorry CaitieCat.
*soothing thoughts* and *pleasant dreams* to you!
The last dream I had that I remember clearly was a few days ago. It featured zombies and my baby sister. She was sometimes a zombie, sometimes a non-zombie, and sometimes a zombie-infectee.
I awoke and was so struck by it that I tweeted at her asking her if she was a zombie. She replied that she was not, but if she was, she wouldn’t eat me.
I was touched.
CaitieCat:
Best wishes getting to sleep.
I keep having bad dreams myself : / now and then I have a weird one, but yeah, mostly bad. Mostly people I love dying. Sometimes I’m pregnant (for me, that’s bad).
That’s okay, CaitieCat. She speaks Canadian :)
Take care of yourself and good luck with getting some rest.
The Big Thread is uh.. er… stunning to say the least. I don’t have any huge traumatic instances in my past but reading all of these threads makes me think of the little things that have happened over the years (cat calls, harassment/sexism on the job, etc.). Why are we expected to put up with those little things– not to mention the BIG things?!
*Hugs* to all those telling their stories and Thanks to all the allies!
They are all of a kind. The little things often groom for the big things. Amen to your whole comment.
I can only count a half-dozen or so times in my life I’ve had a good dream. Maybe 10 at the most, counting any I’ve forgotten, but they tend to stick with me because they’re so rare. And that counts one from when I was very young and dreaming of talking to the muppets (the huge giant ones), and one where nothing special was happening, I was just having a nice day and when I woke up I felt good about it.
Thanks, folks. I’m glad I dropped by this thread a few days ago. Y’all is good people.
Also, rq: “Tim Horton’s, eh? And how ’bout them Saskatchewan Rough Riders? Toque! Poutine! Maple syrup and back bacon!”
See? I also speak Canajun, like Sir John “Eh?” McDonald.
Thanks for the laugh :) `
So.
I’m playing one of those silly on-line games where you solve a puzzle and earn tokens you can use to improve your imaginary space (you can ‘buy’ lawn, paving, topiary, buildings, etc.)
I was doing fine until I discovered that one of the improvements is … bunnies.
How will I ever save up enough for the Octopus Mosaic if I keep buying bunnies?
CaitieCat
Ha!
Ha! I say!
Caught you!
Saskatchewan Roughriders
Ottawa Rough Riders (now Ottawa
RenegadesRedBlacks)*cough*
***these are not the spandex-clad jocks you’re looking for***
Who are you, really?
Hello to rq!! I left you a shout out on Dana’s blog. The post about punkinchunkin and those four-legged things.
I hope you’re still lurking so you can read this in real virtual time. ;^>
Can’t wait to see Dana’s pictures . . .
Do bunnies reproduce?
You could start selling surplus bunnies.
http://veganfeministagitator.blogspot.com/2013/08/if-she-didnt-want-to-get-raped-she.html
Just trying to catch up here. Busy day. We have two thirds of the roof on the second story addition to the barn. Sweated buckets, we did. Three generations of nail bangers. Was a very good day. The rest of the Labor Day weekend will be occupied with more labor. By late Monday we won’t need a tarp over it all.
Cicely, @308:
Wood for sheep? At risk of missing an easy one, tell me anyhow. While I wait I’ll try to think of a good reason to trade moar wood for sheep. The first one I come up with is I can’t eat wood. If I had a sheep I could eat it but I’d need moar wood to cook it. Hhmm. . . .
Happy Birthday to Crip Dyke!!! I hope your best present was some love to hold and recall later when you could use some.
Chigau, I’d like to know how big the Horde is too. Thank you for putting the question. Is not too big a number, I think, though it might be large one. It will be impressive though, whether smaller or larger than a number just smaller than too big a number. Yes. I’m sure of it.
Owlmirror
Sadly, the bunnies do not reproduce.
At least, not yet…
To build a settlement, of course. Secondarily, to buy a development card.
More particularly, there is a joke in an old Knights of the Dinner Table comic about playing the game.
And also on an episode of The Big Bang Theory
–
but is there an xkcd?
no. I’m asking.
is there?
Ogvorbis
What did you have for supper tonught?
chigau
I doubt it very much, nor does a casual search reveal one. It doesn’t really strike me as Munroe’s usual style, and I also strongly suspect he’s familiar with the KoDT reference, and wouldn’t make it unless he was specifically riffing on KODT.
Transporting over from the Stunned Silent thread because it seemed in worse and worse taste as I read, as it’s really a tangent:
Tami: I’m not sure why I wanted to write this…my therapists have always told me to “let go of the victim thinking” and to not let the “past control my life.” But I’ve never been completely successful with that.
Giliell: Why do therapists insist on using those quite obviously useless stockphrases?
I know this exchange shifted so that it became obvious that Tami is comfortable with her therapy, so it isn’t meant as any sort of “this is wrong” sort of thing, just another perspective. If I’m being too clinical/detatched I apologize in advance.
I think “let go of X thinking” a Cognitive – Behavioral Psychology thing, which is really big right now because it’s much more measurable than other styles of psychology and when it works it has a much faster, more dramatic effect. It also dovetails much more with experimental psychology, whereas therapy itself is nothing but long series of single subject studies, at best.
The basic idea is that thoughts reinforce feelings reinforce behavior, so if you change one of them, the rest should change. It’s in the “should” where the whole thing falls apart, because a basic flaw in Cog-B is that it is focused on the individual and doesn’t take into account the circumstances a person is in, the longstanding effects of trauma and how different trauma is to treat in terms of psychology and phisiology, and the family and social dynamics a person is involved which – all of which can keep something from being handled in the rapid-fire manner Cog-B is best for.
There is some evidence that trauma actually physically changes people and needs to be treated in a very different way, using more physical and experiential means. I’m just beginning to look into the treatments for trauma and complex-trauma (a new term for someone who has multiple traumas in their life), so I can’t competently speak to that, but in my limited experience and from my limited research, trauma needs to be treated in means other than the cognitive-focused talk therapy that dominates psychology right now.
It’s not the person trying to heal who is at fault when a treatment doesn’t work; the fault lies in the treatment.
On the other hand, I think that there’s a difference between making yourself easy to take advantage of and taking advantage of someone even if they don’t stop you, and I think a lot of people don’t see this. I am hunting for a new therapist right now and am kind of terrified that they will think I am trying to dodge responsibility for my part in our relationship.
One of the weird qualities of couples therapy is that the relationship is the client, not either person, so it can lead to a sort of tunnel-vision, where perfectly reasonable things (guilting people when they don’t do what you want is not ok) can get lost. You deifnitely need a therapist in your corner, as neither of the other therapists in this situation has you as a client. And if the couples therapist really thinks “not saying no enough” and “refusing to listen to no” are equivalent, they need to learn basic logic.
Now from this thread:
Parrowing: I feel terrible because the machine was a very expensive gift and I haven’t used it since, but I’m so scared to mess something else up and I don’t have the money to bring it in somewhere just to be told that the problem is something very minor (nor do I have a way to carry the machine someplace else or any idea where to find a place that fixes sewing machines). Does anyone have any idea what the problem might be?
Is the bottom thread threaded as well?
I ask because i had this exact same situation, and it was because I didn’t understand here were two threads – one on top and the other up from under the plate – and both needed to be threaded so the magic they do when the needle goes down …does whatever it does. I thought it was threaded, and half of it was, and I felt so stupid when my mom explained it to me.
Books: I love Jane Lindskold’s “Breaking the Wall” series, which is fantastic (as near as I can tell) along racial / gender lines, decentish in terms of sexual orientation, and either enjoyable or enraging for neo-pagans (probably hella amusing for ex-neo-pagans).
IQ: Honestly, since at this point the serious edge of IQ posits there are either seven types or nine types of intelligence, I find the simple concept of IQ idiotic. It seems to most closely scan to speed of processing the way people use it colloquially, but fast is not the same as right.
…I typed a lot. *hides under the bar with the OJ and peach schnappes*
Four answers to “wood for sheep” have I. Here is what I have learned:
Portia confirms that I haven’t played but a handful of games. Well, I played Parcheesi and Chinese Checkers a lot as a kid. Much later I played the first shareware releases of Wolfenstein 3D as well as Doom. Got ’em of 4 1/2 floppies. At the Post Office. I routinely play Cribbage against a program. Dated I am, dated.
Dalillama, surprising font of knowledge on an astonishingly broad front, refers me to a comic strip new to me that references an RPG player trying to trade wood (no indication that it was moar or less) for sheep and being laughed at. In yet another game Probably a cultural reference to Portia’s cited game. Inasmuch as both the comic and the game strategy were unknown to me until this very moment, I am again dated and typed, as well.
Cicely shows me a video of actors doing the scene that Dalillama identifies above which only deepens my despair.
Chigau then comes and tosses me a lifeline! Perhaps Randall knows! Finally, a reference that references things in popular culture that I’m ignorant of who is a reference I am aware of!!
Then, before I can type my request into Ixquick, Dalillamla dashes my hopes! All is lost.
I’ll never be hip again. Shit. And to think I used to be a hit at parties.
So now. I think I shall think about thinking of a reference, one that is totally public and freely available to all, which, due to its soporific commonality and its tedious inscrutability will prove a worthy challenge to the likes of all of you!
*pulls cloak over face, raises a daunting eyebrow aimed at Dalillama, morphs into an Archeopteryx and hop-glides away at flank speed*
Deoridhe
FYI
<blockquote> paste words here</blockquote>
It offsets and colour-changes what you quote.
Crudely
*blushes* If it makes you feel better, I’d no idea that there was any other referent cicely might have been making, having never seen the show at all. The game being played in the comic is indeed a thinly veiled version of Settlers of Cataan, which would have been more evident had I linked to the previous page, containing the setup; between that and the wiki, things would have been more clear. The premise of the comic is that all the games they play are thinly veiled parodies of real games (usually Hackmaster, which isn’t D&D at all, in any way. Especially not now, when someone has actually published it), and collectively embody the worst stereotypes of gamers (specifically, those current within the gaming community) with Sara serving as the Only Sane Woman. Randall Munroe has always seemed to me to be a person who is likely to know a lot of grognards, although I don’t know if he is, and therefore likely to be familiar with KoTD, which is nearly a shibboleth of tabletop gamers, IME.
Also, I’ve never been hip in my life.
Crudely Wrott
Is going on my next t-shirt.
too old
Hipness dysplasia?
That’s alright, Dalillama. It’s not the possession of knowledge that always provides the answer. Often all that is needed is to suspect where the answer lies and to have a talent to quickly tease out the sources, find the data at issue, interpret and make it accessible and report it succinctly. That is your talent which I referred to in the above post that included references to references to things that not everyone knows including, mostly, me.
Please accept this Jiminy Cricket award. I give it to those who have informed me (to my delight and or other profits), much as I was informed a *long time* ago, by Jiminy Cricket himself, how to spell E-N-C-Y-C-L-O-P-E-D-I-A. My profit from that small bit of certainty is still accruing benefits.
I hope that you will accept this small token of recognition with my gratitude and ongoing expectation of moar knowledge!
*reputation, n. something easy to get and double tough to be rid of. ;^>*
I suddenly have the sensation of being in a room, or a substantially larger space, full of people who are laughing. While that is a remarkable and usually brief phenomena, I can’t shake the suspicion that everyone is laughing for the very same reason that I am. =)
Each finds their own humor, eh? And finds it a mostly common happiness, not easily hidden, not easily ignored. This binds us today as it has bound us for ages even though many never laugh so heartily. That they cannot or will not is a nagging and vexing state of affairs. It takes all of our collective amusement and comedy to make the situation tolerable if not survivable.
I see that I’m not alone in the room. I am laughing too. Let us always try to keep this venerable tradition alive.
I am not a sports person. Not a fan. Not a participant
So, can someone please explain to me how this = fun?
My co-worker (him day shift, me night shift) called me to say that he was still at a softball tournament — at 1:15 am ! And he expects it not to be over until about 3 am! And he is supposed to be here (at work) at 6 am! For a 10 hour shift…
Forget drug testing for weed, etc. Around these parts they should test for diminished capacity due to stupid sports!
. . . addendum to my 484: add last paragraph: “That would be wicked hip!”
______________
This is an appreciated, comfortable and needful (add ’em up and that’s theraputic) place. This Lounge. I really like it here. The Horde is massively hip. Whole lotta hip.
______________
Tomorrow is moar roof to build with moar wood that will ever be stuck in that penthouse (really, it is. It’s built over the utility space, the garage and storage options and has weather thwarting overhangs) thereby forever stranger to my bench and blades, my eyes and hands . . .
The better part is that at least one, most likely both, of the man cubs will call 412 square feet pushed up between an oak tree and a holly tree as their first “real own my own really my own place!!” in much the same fashion I once called a smaller but no less expansive space removed a full forty feet from my parents home. The main feature, and a thing to be most fervently desired, was that it was a separate building altogether! It was a first real step towards that un (or poorly) defined goal of “growing up” and making own way. I get to help =)
Some circles come full round. This is one of them. Pardon me while I rotate therein . . . past~~present__past~~present*0*future
I write too slowly. The clock says that I need to put myself away till tomorrow. There’s that roof and all. Think I’ll hit the old goose hair now. To all, a good morning.
________________
. <—- The period that failed to show up for a gig in a previous comment. Before long someone here will need it. So I'll leave it right here for you. Use it up in one place and, no, you can't pay it forward. Full stops, once employed, have, indeed, fully stopped. If you lose this one you are on your own. But don't despair, someone else is bound to let one get away any time now.
Well, I’m glad the “missing period” issue was resolved. O.O
Azkyroth, re kilts from a while back. Word from my friends is Stumptown Kilts. Box pleated instead of knife pleated. Don’t know about the douche factor though.
Also missing is one of these:”‘”. If you note its abcense above, please help yourself to this one. Please don’t take it if you don’t need it. ‘s are the sort of thing that people like to put into a drawer against a non possessive day much like people are always trying to save time against a day that demands too much it.
I’ve yet to see a drawer full of ‘s or a pantry stocked with canned time all put up for a moment of future’s need. You?
*really. go to bed. OK. I’m gone.*
This is my favorite Settlers of Catan joke, which also describes all of the rules and cicely’s joke. :)
Good morning
Ordered a new sewing/embroidery machine.
Yay!
But it’s these times I hate being a poor student/housewife/mummy/tiny part time jobber.
Although we quickly agreed that yeah, replacement is necessary and to put in the money I’m lacking I hate, hate, hate depending on him. :(
+++
Hello rq!
Or should I say “Miss Marple”?
+++
Deoridhe
I recognize some of the things you’re saying and I’m not saying that many things aren’t working and helpful it also seems to me that certain phrases are simply loaded.
If my therapist told me that I “need to get over it” I’d probably ask him if he wanted to change jobs.
Because to me working through things and getting over them are two different things. It’s like asking somebody whose leg was broken and who still suffers from the consequences to “get over it” and go back to running marathons.
And, while I’m talking out of my ass here, it seems quite likely that dealing with long learned behavioural patterns and dealing with trauma might require different approaches. For me it is very helpful to analyze situations, recognize my patterns and then being able to change. Because those things are mostly within my own power.* I can see how that might be very different for somebody with a trauma.
*Partly
I just noticed how much my mum still unsettles and unnerves me, mostly by recognizing how relaxed I was yesterday when she was not there.
+++
Anne D.
I was also way more “boyish” (I hate that term. I was just me) than my male cousin who was a pampered crybaby.
Frost/NixonThe passing of a man who helped to expose the rotten heart of a devil.
I have an earworm.
It will not go away and I only know the chorus!!!!
At least it is a good song- “I guess thats why they call it the blues” by Elton John)
I slept! Huzzah! Yay the little pink pills.
Tony, the only cure for earworm I know is basically vaccination. I take a little piece of a song that I know doesn’t give me an intractable earworm (in my case, “She Drives me Crazy” by Fine Young Cannibals), and sing it out loud over and over until the original earworm is lost, repeating each time the original re-appears.
Since I always use the same vax song, it pretty much always works. Good luck, though. I hate earworms.
Now, to take the load of morning meds and hope for another two hours while they all get working. Work, little pills, work! Hold back the tides of pain for another several hours! Fly, my pretties!
Er, and hope for sleep for another two hours.
Apparently, still sleepy. This is good.
Sleeeeeeeep CatieCat,
Sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. :)
Tony: there is an old trick to forget things. Think of seven things in a row, quickly, and you will forget the first. Who knows… Maybe it will work on earworms.
I hope so because I just caught yours!
rq:
So wonderful to see you again!
Do you have the link to the Commune page you created? I was thinking about it the other day, in light of the influx of new commenters…
KevinKat, cicely
I should have pictures up on my blog Tuesday-ish.
It’s been complete insanity and awesomeness.
Tony!
Here’s the conversation (though not all of it), and there’s a link at the bottom to the .pdf of skills (if you ever lose it, you can search it on the Pharyngula wiki, it’s the first link that shows up). We still have an opening for dentist. And Dalillama created the page itself, I merely compiled the material, with the help of Socio-gen and Portia. :)
CaitieCat
Serviette! (That’s all I have right now in Canadian-speak. *stares at fan poster of
Justin TrudeauSir John “Eh?” McDonald (stealing this from you) hanging on wall*) <-I do not actually own such a poster.Also, Russian and/or Ukrainian wouldn't help you greet me "properly", since I speak neither one of those languages. ;) Try Latvian (not a Slavic language)!
And sleep well. I'm going to do this for you (it’s my go-to well-wishing pose).
Hello, Giliell!
Miss Marple has nothing on me. ;)
And yay for new machine!
Yup. I almost bought a pre-WWII microscope today (little did I know this town holds the country’s annual antique-and-junk market), just for the heck of it… Even though it’s not something I should be considering buying, but it’s a little thing that’s kind of awesome, useful for keeping the kids interested in science, and would be a joy to own and show off. But. The children need shoes, after all. (And no, it wasn’t super-expensive – cheap enough to be affordable, but just expensive enough to make me a bit bitter about spending the cash (which I just didn’t have on me). So all-in-all not a loss, I suppose.)
Anyway, weekend’s over. Back to the shadows for me.
Still reachable by email: taarpinsh at hotmail dot com.
:)