My wife just played the femdom role, and made me listen to that horrible Florida Republican debate while I cooked her dinner, so it was good of Dan Savage to provide some comic relief.
To "rick" is to remove something with your tongue—the "r" from "remove," the "ick" from "lick"—which makes "rick santorum" the most disgusting two-word sentence in the English language after "vote Republican."
To be complete, though, I need some bon mots to apply to Paul, Romney, and Gingrich.
I swear, next time I’m insisting on the whip and the spike heels grinding into my back — that debate was just too sadistic. I have my limits. And no, it wasn’t arousing at all.
I’m a University of North Florida graduate and was appalled at what I watched on tv.
Bless you Dan!
Santorum has ruined the name for everybody else. Same as Hitler. Does this count as a Godwin?
How could you maintain your appetite – for dinner or fem-dom – after that?
I’m a University of North Florida graduate, also, and I’m so appalled by the Republican candidates I can’t watch. That’s easy for me because I don’t own a TV. To be fair, though, I’m just about as appalled by the Democratic candidate. I wish I knew a decent political candidate that I could be “for”. So far all I see is Corporation Man, Corporation Man II, Wing Nut, Looney Ben, Amen Brother, Amen Sister, He Did What!?, and one Santorum. Not exactly inspirational. But, as Scoop Nisker would say, if you don’t like the politicians, go out and make some of your own…I guess.
I clicked the link and was pleased to find a happy Santorum fan.
Wait, what does being a UNF grad have to do with the debate, except that it was held there and thus brought some attention to the school/city? (Maybe not super positive, but hosting the debate seemed like a neutral action to me. Too bad a lot of classes were canceled rather than make students deal with the hassle of the media zoo and security – the debate took place in the fine arts building.) (Also a UNF grad here.)
By this time, it’s pretty clear that most people who go into politics are loathsome globs of sputum and the political process itself ruins those that aren’t.
Run, don’t run; it’s all about as effective as prayer.
@keri #7 — Not much. I didn’t know the debate was held at UNF. I really can’t bear to watch these people, not even to “know the enemy.” I know them well enough. But, my gawd, three UNF’ers on the same thread. What are the odds? It’s not that big a school…well, it wasn’t when I went there in 1972-73.
#Brownian #8 — So true.
Um, yeah. Well, that made my appetite flee.
I have only seen various clips of various Republican debates, but Holy Crap, they are crazy!
@Robro 5
Obama is disappointing in some serious ways, but he is nowhere as bad as the Republican candidates, who are simply vile. This is true generally for Democrats v. Republicans. While there are obviously some honorable Republicans and dishonorable Democrats, in general Democrats don’t come even close to approaching the levels of sleaze, hypocrisy, corruption, and plain old moral depravity one finds in modern-day Republicans.
If you truly think they’re equally appalling, I would respectfully suggest you look harder.
Arguing that the Democrats and Republicans are exactly the same is like arguing that being slapped in the face and having a running chainsaw shoved up your ass are exactly the same.
Wasn’t “Rick Santorum” a pretty disgusting phrase in the first place?
/cheapzinger
There is a poll which needs visits. It’s about Atheist Temples and their required existence.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/poll/2012/jan/27/atheism-alain-de-botton
I don’t understand!
bed
Well, just make sure you have a safe word that’s quick to say, distinctive and attention-getting. And remember, play safe.
Brownian @ #8 – As Billy Connolly says, the desire to become a politician should forever prevent a person from doing so…
and…
don’t vote; it only encourages them.
(Best imagined in a strong Glaswegian accent.)
The sheer number of the Republican debates this time round is just ridiculous. How many of the wretched things are there?
FWIW, Romney had struck me as the least bad of the bunch until Gingrich advocated the Moon base in a great speech -if you overlook whose speaking it – see here :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or1Mb1Vje1Q&feature=context&context=G22c1b39FOAAAAAAAAAA
With Mittens apparently responding with this imitation Trump rubbish :
So it seems Mittens – like Obama – is against having a decent manned spaceflight policy and human lunar return. Which I’d really desperately love to see happen in my lifetime.
Since those developments of the trio most likely to be US President, Newt Gingrich, for all his many flaws and character defects, is now the one I’d most like to see win.
If I was eligiable to vote (Aussie not American typing here) I’d be holding my nose & voting Newton Gingrich for 2012.
Because, yes, I do think space policy and being pro-NASA matters that much and outweighs most other factors.
*****
“I think the human race has no future if it doesn’t go into space.”
– Stephen Hawking, 8th January 2007 – interviewed before taking a zero-gravity flight.
“Earth will benefit in the end,{from Space Exploration / terraforming Venus} and not just because there’s a new world to go to, but because of what we’ll learn.”
– Page 237, ‘Venus of Dreams’, Pamela Sargent, Bantam, 1986.
“This [space] is the new ocean and I believe the United States must sail on it and be in a position second to none.”
– President John F. Kennedy after John Glenn’s first orbits in ‘Friendship-7’ on Feb. 20th 1962.
@StevoR:
As much as I’d like to see a permanent moonbase soon, Newt’s support for it is, well… Useless.
To put it shortly, he’s simply saying he wants it to happen without making any suggestion whatsoever for how to make it happen. He actually denied the possibility of funding NASA to do it; he thinks private industry is going to magically make it happen with neither government money nor an actual profit motive. Check here for a bit more depth on it: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/01/27/the-gingrich-who-stole-the-news-cycle/
Santorum
Rick Santorum
Just has to post that link twice as Google puts it third now when you search for Santorum.
No real comment here. Mostly a googlebomb. Make similar links in all your posts to get this back to number one.
I stepped in gingrich on the way home from the bar, but that Scoop Nisker reference almost made up for it.
@ hillaryrettig #12 & @ Azkyroth #13 — I didn’t say they are the same. I said, “I’m just about as appalled.” “Just about” is hardly the same as “the same.” And I’m appalled for different reasons. While I do appreciate the differences, on the political spectrum thing I don’t think the differences are nearly as dramatic as Azkyroth.
To give some perspective, remember that just a few years ago most of these Southern Republicans would have been Democrats because a “Republican” couldn’t get elected down there. More than a few politicians make their party choice on the basis of electability rather than platform, philosophy, or economic policy.
As for Republican versus Democrat sleaze, I recall quite a few sleazy Democrats. They get their hand caught in the till and their cigars in the wrong place, too.
But at least Obama, or his speech writers, can construct a sentence…heck, even a whole paragraph…without sounding like a complete wackaloon as some of these Republicans do. I just wish there was a true Lefty somewhere in the crowd.
You’re a complete idiot, as I’ve noticed before. Gingrich might with as much justification have said that by the end of his second term, everyone will be a billionaire. He’s not proposing to put any public money into a moonbase; he believes (or more likely, pretends to believe) that the private sector is going to lay out the trillion dollars or so it would cost, in the next nine years. If you believe that, “complete idiot” is a woefully inadequate term.
I used to work with a guy called Rick, he generally had the nickname. Rick will a silent P :)
idiot. Newt isn’t pro-NASA, he’s pro-“the invisible hand of the market, because shut up”
@ ^ Jadehawk : Newt Gingrich is a horrible person, whodse said and done some horrid things and has abunch of other horrible policies. I can’t stand him as such BUT But, but Dammit! He *is* the only Presidential candidate seriously talking about advancing US space policy.
About going back to the Moon to study and settle and build and explore and be bold.
I’m a huge SF and space exploration fan. I’ve always wanted us to do that and to see it happen in my lifetime.
Obama killed Constellation just as it was starting to take off. That is unforgivable in my eyes.
Romney has rejected the idea of going to the Moon. He doesn’t believe in doing what I have been hoping my whole life to see us do.
Who does that leave?
Gingrich is the only one saying what I believe in and most want to see.
I hate Newt the man but I loved his one speech and his idea there.
FSM damnit. YES I would hold my nose and vote for the slimebag if I could. Which I can’t. Hoping, just hoping that he’ll actuallyfor once do what he says he’ll do. Because it means that flippin’ much to me and I think all of us. For the future.
Newt almost certainly won’t win anyhow. So what happens to the US manned spaceprogram under Obama or Romney? Nothing much good I’d guess. We’ll see.
incorrect. he’s the only candidate talking about advancing Us space policy, but he’s doing it decidedly unseriously.
Fuck. Blockquote fail. Sorry. Yet another stinking thing going wrong today. Make that :
I don’t like Newt Gingrich.
BUT ..
Give me somebody else running for POTUS witha realistic chance of getting there who offers the goal of a Moonbase, ASAP.
Somebody else who has a vision for human spaceflight and America – the West -taking the lead there again.
Go on give me a better choice for taking us to that goal.
There isn’t one is there? None of the other two will do.
So there we are. It has to be Gingrich if we’re to see the future I want us to see.
Newt talking about the moon is exactly as serious as Bush’s silly ramblings about it. they’re diversions from the fuckery these men are committing on people. and clearly, it’s working.
I should add though that even if Newt were serious, your statements here expose you as someone who thinks it’s ok to let Newt exacerbate the tragic living-conditions of millions of people in the us, let fuckloads of people go hungry, homeless, and have them die from lack of access to healthcare, all because you want a base on the moon. callous ass.
if you believe that, I have some beachfront property in Saskatchewan to sell to you.
you really are a complete moron. a callous moron, too.
@20.Nentuaby says:
@ KG. Fuck you asshole.
The idea of making the Moon the 51st state is delightfully wacky. I want more of this. Maybe next Newt can give a speech explaining how the government is stealing three out of every four Earth days from hardworking white Americans.
@Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe :
& again in bold in case you missed it thefirts time :
“I think the human race has no future if it doesn’t go into space.”
– Stephen Hawking, 8th January 2007 – interviewed before taking a zero-gravity flight.
You want Humanity to go extinct sometime potentially soon, jadehawk?
Now thats really callous.
No, I don’t like the other possible consequences of a Gingrich presidency BUT I don’t see Obama or Romney doing much better either.
They’re all rotten politicians. neither one will fix the world’s or America’s problems. Neither of them are offering much better.
Atleats Gingrich isofferingan investment in space and some sort of bold vision that people can can excited about – that may just lift national morale and the economy with it.
What’s the alternative? Is it really better?
@30. Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe – 29th January 2012 at 5.52:
Watch this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ZHzAvFuYc
That’s Bush’es rocket design actually lifting off.
It was flying.
We finally had a plan to return to the Moon. That was tangible. That just starting to take flight and really go somewhere.
Then Obama killed it.
Yes it was have teething troubles and was costly. So was Apollo, so were the Space Shuttles, so was the Hubble Space telescope. They were worth it. Many times over. So would Constellation have been I’m sure.
We’ll never know how good the Constellation program could have been. Which people it could have landed on the Moon and what they might’ve succeeded in doing there with it – the science, the spin-offfs, the wonders and serendiptous gifts it could’ve given.
Because Obama is a short-sighted anti-space science douchebag.
you are a fucking idiot for believing anything Gingrich says, and especially this bit of idiocy that was said only because Florida has lost a lot of space-related jobs, and I’m fucking glad you don’t get to vote in the US
non sequitur, seeing as Gingrich is lying. And not that it matters, but suffering is worse than extinction.
fuck you.
with Obama, I will have health insurance for the first time in a decade, come 2014. with either of the Republicans, I will not. There’s a difference for you, asshole.
(Another UNF person here (and I find it hard to believe you are all graduates considering, “At UNF, you never finish.”))
StevoR, it must be really cool to be privileged enough to think manned spaceflight is the most important activity in the world. Hell you even have the privilege of not living in the US so it there won’t be any boots on your neck if Newt made it to the Whitehouse. C’mon, man: http://www.timwise.org/2012/01/of-broken-clocks-presidential-candidates-and-the-confusion-of-certain-white-liberals/
steve, keep on demonstrating how killing people is less important than the ramblings of a liar who won’t give you the space-toy you want. makes you look like a callous, privileged asshole, and making my point for me.
StevoR, isn’t it interesting how Newt’s space program wasn’t mentioned until Florida? Let’s see if he mentions it again! It’s not like politicians ever lie, right?
I’m sure people without health insurance, those who live on food stamps, prisoners in overpopulated prisons, those who can’t get a job because they are of “wrong” skin color, sex, sexual preference, religion, etc. would be thrilled about the government investing into the really important things. All that assuming his promises are not total bullshit.
Also, this kinda makes you look like a total asshole.
I doubt you can see the irony in calling someone else callous.
It doesn’t work that way in the US. Newt’s plan is the same as the old GOP chestnut “the private sector will stop throwing acid in the streams and stop trashing the atmosphere all by themselves because they’re driven to do the right thing just as they always have been.”
That said, I hope he’s the candidate, too, cuz I want to see the rest of Obama’s plans come to fruition: de-spiralization of Health costs, infrastructure fixes, and 2nd-term carbon address that leads internationally instead of follows.
You don’t get a president that’s made in your image, you get one that you agree most with. If McCain was sitting there now let’s not forget what shape we’d be in, with all that stimulus spent to lengthen war in Iraq, every country on Earth hating the US, and China calling in the debt.
of course he doesn’t. He thinks that line about extinction is a rebuttal to what I said and what you said
Same here. If we had open primaries here in Florida I would straight up vote for toxic Newt for that reason alone. If he makes it to the convention and gets the nom, Obama is a shoo-in. I mean, look at what we’re up against. Normal people (so-called independents) aren’t going to vote for a GOP fueled solely on hate.
If we’re gonna spend money, space is the place. War no more. Contrived enemies are a real crime against humanity.
Disclaimer: not an American.
I also don’t follow American politics as closely as most here, but this really sounds like something that Will Not End Well. As in, a total nut being nominated and then actually winning. Never count on someone being a shoo-in. Because they are probably counting on that too. And then they are not trying as hard as they should. And then US is fucked. Together with the rest of the world, because you are a fucking big country with a lot of influence on the rest of us.
Disclaimer 2 : I still don’t know what I’m talking about when it comes to politics, but this sounds like good old common sense to me.
Gingrich ? yer kiddin me, right ? you think that scumbag will act on his 20 second throw-away comment ? Hell, two weeks from now he won’t even acknowledge saying it.
Let’s see: We have a choice between :
A Corporate raider.
A Religous Fanatic.
A Washington Lobbyist and Con-Man.
A Corporate Shill Randian Libertarian.
All of them claim that they believe in Creationism.
All of them are AGW Denialists.
All of them mouth the Christian Dominionism.
All of them are Anti-Choice.
All of them are Anti-LGBT.
I wouldn’t elect any of them dog catcher, and I wouldn’t hire any of them to manage a hotdog stand.
Excuse the long, un-bulleted list in my last. I’m tired and don’t feel like coding bullets that I don’t even know will show up properly.
Oi, how do I contact the site administrators? It won’t let me change my email address. Sorry for the off-topic but there’s no recent open thread.
Beatrice,
FWIW, Newt has 100% name recognition and something like 60% unfavorability, which reasonable pundits argue has in the past indicated or resulted in colossal flame-outs. Unless something tragic happens the demographics and polling say Newt can’t win.
Now, that said, I agree it would be terrible if Newt actually got elected, but for that to happen something else terrible will already have happened. So I dunno. It’s a little like playing with fire; I’ve seen plenty of people bring up the point. Either way we’ll be really fucked.
@ 37. Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe :
Political promises = political pressure.
Can I be certain Newton Gingrich will keep his promise? No.
Do I hope and expect that he might do so? Yes.
Is this better than the others in the race? Yes.
Oh & going extinct will involve no suffering at all, ri-iight? /sarc.
There was a fantastic Babylon-5 quote about what our extinction would mean. Wish I could find it. Haven’t time to right now, maybe later. Something about how when we go extinct we’ll take with us so much good – the works of Shakespeare, the paintings of Picasso, the works of every poet and artist and thinker and scientist from Asimov and Sagan to JFK, Charles Darwin and Lao Tzu. For all our flaws and faults we do some wonderful, marvellous things. If those things are to continue and if our potential for love, science and so much more is to be realised we have to keep expanding and exploring. Yes into space. Its who and what we are. I think its good. Not perfect no, far from that but good.
I was talking about space policy in particlar there. But here’s tehthing. The economy goes down as it may even Obama won’t be able to keep Obamacare. You say Gingrich is lying and can’t deliver or be trusted – I say the same applies to Obama. Its not like he hasn’t broken promises and failed to live up to expectations is it? Oh wait it is.
I think Obamacare is a good thing. But its not enough for me to say Huamnity shouldn’t go into space and ‘yknow, avoid total extinction. If you had the choice of Obamacare and extinction or no Obamacare and humanity surviving which would you choose?
Hey, who knows, if Gingrich gets in he may be forced to keep Obamacare still. Also Obamacare in this context = non-sequiteur as well.
You could try spending it on a decent educational system, good public transport, a proper welfare system, a comprehensive health system free at the point of delivery, foreign aid targeted at improving the status and education of women and making contraception and abortion readily available…
Oh, I wouldn’t worry about the space issue. Someone will do it. Japan, France, India, China. Won’t do the US much good, but that’s what we get for letting ourselves get mired in trivia and letting our politicians destroy our educational system and economy. Sic transit gloria Civitates Foederatae Americae.
(Bitter? Moi?)
@42. Beatrice, anormalement indécente :
Jadehawk erronously called me callous and I returned the favour with supporting evidence.
No, I’m not callous. I may have different priorities and values but that does NOT rob me of human empathy any more tahnit ros her.
@38. Drolfe says:
Hey, I live in the world and the US influence does kinda affect that whole place y’know.
Yes, for the record I *do* think manned spaceflight is the most important thing in the world. So does Stephen Hawking as I quoted in comment #19 here. I agree with his asessement among others, incl. Carl Sagan’s, that we must go into space and become a spacefaring space colonising species or we will go extinct. I think doing so has a whole heap of advantages in a whole heap of ways and is well and truly worth it.
Oh & are we really using calls of priviledge as an excuse to shut down and silence dissenting opinions here now? Really?
Am I priviledged? Yeah, sure in a few ways I am. Does that mean I don’t have the right to express my opinion too & have it heard seriously too? No.
I suppose nobody else is privilged here either? Also is this even about priviledge – is it even relevant tothis particular discussion about the space policy of various candidates? I don’t think so.
Of course there’s never been a woman on the moon and Gingrich’s plan woudl alter that fact along with many others so his idea would actually counter priviledge if you want to look at it that way. Why should only twelve WASP men be tehones towalk ontehMoon for all time? Women are probably beter suited tospace colonisationinsome ways -I vaguely recall Isaac Asimov noting taht inone essay. Let’s encourage them to fly along with everyone else! let’s ask for the Moon and beyond and boldly go where none have gone before!
Jesus wept, what a fuckwit. The real threat of human extinction is right here on Earth, in the increasing pace of environmental degradation – in particular, but by no means only, through greenhouse gas emissions, and Gingrich pretends it doesn’t exist. Are you really stupid enough to believe that self-sustaining off-Earth colonies could be created in less than centuries? Stone the crows, if you want to use off-Earth space activity to reduce the threat of human extinction, there are ways to do it, which I would support, but none of them involve a human-inhabited moon base – even if one could not say with absolute certainty, as anyone with more than two braincells can see, will not get built.
Truly bizarre, and indicative of someone who does not really care about others very much.
Oppose Gingrich’es plan for human spaceflight and it means you are opposing it for *everyone* and limiting *everyone’s* opportunities – women, gays,
disabledphysically-challenged folks, atheists, Jews, Pastafarians, neuroatypicals and everyone else.Gingrich’es idea of a Moonbase is privileged-neutral. The priviledge concept doesn’t apply to it, not as far as I can see anyhow.
Oh & you’re also tobbing the whole planet of immense amounts of good science, wonderful adventure and art and who knows what else plus dooming our whole species to extinction.
Now *that’s* priviledge.
I don’t think Humanity has the priviledge of truning down an opprtunity – even one offered by Newton Gingrich – to venture beyond our earthly cradle. We have to grow and advance and do these things that are hard or we die.
—–
“Earth is the cradle of humanity, but one cannot live in a cradle forever.”
– Konstantin Tsiolkovsky
Typo correction :
Oh & you’re also robbing the whole planet of immense amounts of good science, wonderful adventure and art and who knows what else plus dooming our whole species to extinction.
I’m not silencing you. I’m saying your ideals are skewed because your needs are being met. You think “Newt is the best thing for mankind” because of your SF aspirations, if I read you correctly; I’m saying that is wrong.
We can feed people and fund space science, but Republican policies aren’t the path to that outcome.
*cue swelling violins*
I think you’re a romantic loony.
or not.
But even stipulating your assertion, the ‘therefore, support Newt Gingrich’ does not follow. It really doesn’t.
for whom?
“us”?
What do you suppose Gingrich’s motivation is?
But you see, if we don’t aggressively pursue moon colonization to the exclusion of all else including common sense, the moon might get upset and leave us for Mars. Then where will we be? Extinct, that’s where.
Also, #58 shows a shocking misunderstanding of my point, so I’m not going to get much further in to it.
You think you have the *right* to have your opinion heard seriously?
Also, help me follow your reasoning, StevoR:
Newt said something about space research and does not promise healthcare –>> he should be elected for the sake of space research, and maybe later he can be pressured into healthcare (but, apparently, not out of space research because ???)
Obama promises healthcare and does not support space research –>> therefor fuck him (because it’s unreasonable to assume he will deliver the healthcare OR that he can be pressured into space research)
Why the different standards?
[this without going into their apparent levels of commitment to the enterprises they claim to support]
@57. Matt Penfold :
Nonsense. Offensive nonsense at that.
I care a hell of a lot about others. I can also see the bigger picture at the same time too.
@KG. the fuckwitted fuckwit and idiot* :
Are you so stupid that you don’t see that that means we need to start somewhere sometime and the sooner the better?
* See I can call *you* rude names too, yay. (eyeroll.)
Also, in the grand scheme, extinction is sort of meaningless as an argument. Extinction is the inescapable conclusion of humanity. That’s just physics. Ask Hawking.
But the idea of electing Gingrich is not privileged-neutral.
Does he actually offer something worthy of the name of ‘plan’? Serious question.
Gingrich would bankrupt America long before he’d manage to fund a space program. He’s a hypocritical, narcissistic buffoon with the economic accumen of a squirrel.
Newt’s not gonna take us to space. He’ll do what all the recent presidents have done: foist it off on a few romantic billionaires and call it “capitalism.”
A vote for Gingrich is a vote for plutocracy, not for going back into space in any significant way.
Remember all the grand promises Bush made about space? Yeah. That’s about what you’ll see.
I don’t even know where to start with this.
*takes a deep breath*
I feel like I’m feeding into your delusion, but I have to ask: Why do you think people would have equal access to the Moonbase?
Good. You deserve to be offended.
You have not offered any evidence to support that claim.
StevoR
As an American who has worked her ass off (and will continue to do so) to get out of shelters, off food stamps and provide for my child, FUCK YOU!
I will be voting in the next election, my second time voting for president, and I do not have the fucking luxury to worry about FUCKING SPACE TRAVEL WHILE I HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT MY CHILD GETTING FOOD AND HEALTH CARE.
I can’t believe you are stupid enough to think that he’s even going to follow through on that! You really rather put him in office on the hope he follows through on space travel, while knowing that he will not work towards education (creationism), health care (all the republican candidates have said they would repeal it), my bodily anatomy (abortion) and against equal rights.
Isn’t he also the one who called Obama the “food stamp president” and was talking about hiring “urban” kids as janitors? They are all racist, but isn’t he the one who specifically spouted this bullshit?
You are a callous heartless bastard because you would rather people starve and die so you can hope for space travel so you can have wet fucking dreams over it.
Go fuck yourself you privileged fucking asshole.
moron. complete and utter fucking moron.
all of which is only “good” because it’s precious to humans; no humans = no value to Shakespeare etc.
irrelevant since the extension to medicaid is already going to happen; unless you elect someone whose goal will be to undo it.
Obamacare
because that actually helps people, whereas preventing extinction doesn’t. jesus, what is it with the existentialist wangsting?
by whom?
I accurately called you that, for being willing to throw real people’s lives in the trash because someone “promised” you a toy you like, even though they’re not actually going to give you that toy anyway.
pipedreams before people = distinct lack of empathy
clueless dolt.
yep; being able to fly to the moon totes makes up for lack of access to reproductive health
indeed.
opposing something that won’t ever happen doesn’t limit anything for anyone. Gingrich was lying, how many more times do we have to explain to you that he was simply bullshitting to make floridians like him?
Why does it fall to the US to save humanity from Certain Extinction, anyway? Other countries have space programs as well.
For that matter a few years from now the US could easily have a new space program even sans-Gingrich, but that is so obvious it shouldn’t need to be pointed out.
and they wouldn’t need to do it over the dead bodies of their citizens
no, he just claims it will happen because free market and stuff. already said he doesn’t want to give nasa any money, or create government research grants.
So SteveR, realistically, how much money would be spent by private funds on actually setting up and running a base on the moon? Newt didn’t mention public funds, therefore, it isn’t a case of ObamaCare (and he does care for America, unlike Newt) or a moon base. You seem to have blinders on. And I say this a fan of space exploration since the early satellite days, before the manned program got off the ground.
reads suspiciously like “fuck AGW mitigation, as long as we* can just leave, someday, in the far future”
*for a very limited value of “we”
And just what exactly is the free market supposed to get in return for setting up a moon base ?
They cannot undertake any commercial mining, since that is prohibited by international treaty. Tourism would not seem to offer much of a return given the size of the investment, and if you want a low-gravity environment you need only go to earth orbit.
Is anyone stupid enough to believe that Gingrich will actually put a space colony on the Moon? I mean, really. For one thing, his record reveals that has all the honesty and moral integrity of Bernie Madoff; even by the standards of politicians, he’s dishonest. For another, his plan is completely incoherent and entirely uninformed by science. (It reminds me of Dan Quayle asserting that “Mars is essentially in the same orbit… Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe.”)
And while I’m not opposed to space travel, I’d say that, if the next president has a sudden urge to spend fucktons of government money on something, repairing America’s crumbling infrastructure probably ought to be a higher priority.
The sheer number of the Republican debates this time round is just ridiculous. How many of the wretched things are there?
In 2008, the Republicans had 8 contenders during the primaries: John McCain, Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee, Ron Paul, Fred Thompson, Rudy Giuliani, Alan Keyes and Duncan Hunter,
In 1988, the Democrats had 7 contenders during the primaries: Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, Joe Biden, Dick Gephardt, Paul Simon, Jesse Jackson and Gary Hart. They were called the Seven Dwarves. In 1976, they had 8: Jimmy Carter, Jerry Brown, George Wallace, Robert Byrd, Mo Udall, Frank Church, Henry Jackson and Hubert Humphrey.
So it’s not unusual to have several declared candidates.
The team-fielding primaries tend to happen when a party isn’t incumbent in the White House, when it has served 8 years in the White House already, or when an incumbent is viewed as exceptionally vulnerable, as Ford was in 1976.
Newt Gingrich’s ‘plan’ is the same as any other GOP plan: give massive tax breaks and no-bid, cost-plus contracts to the companies that give them the biggest campaign contribution, slash social welfare spending, smile, and claim it is a plan.
Does anyone here really believe that any of the big projects of the last 70 years could have been done through private funding? The interstate highway system? The Apollo project? Rural electrification? If so, you live in a dream world. Private business is in it to make money. No more, no less. In most industries, if a project is not profitable (or promises to be profitable — pharmaceuticals) within a few years, it is dropped. Making a moon base profitable? Fifty to one hundred years. Any CEO who signs up for that would lose his job quickly.
Any GOP proposal does one or more of three things: tosses a bone to the religious right, steers money to big business, and/or makes less public money available for infrastructure and welfare. This does two out of three. And, as Meatloaf said, two out of three ain’t bad.
That’s Bush’es rocket design actually lifting off.
Bush didn’t design that. Reword it, please.
If I was eligiable to vote (Aussie not American typing here) I’d be holding my nose & voting Newton Gingrich for 2012.
Never mind the poor. Or women. Or gays. Or the environment. Or decent educations for our children. Or decent health care in America. Or closing the income gap between the rich and poor. Or saving the middle class. Or–
Well, you get the idea.
Stevo, I’ve seen you make more intelligent remarks elsewhere, so I’ll simply chalk this up to naivete, rather than thinking it’s a good thing you want a space program, because wanting Newt for president to have one makes you unfit for life on this planet.
Oh & you’re also robbing the whole planet of immense amounts of good science, wonderful adventure and art and who knows what else plus dooming our whole species to extinction.
And you’re robbing people of any hope for free and prosperous lives by supporting Gingrich.
I don’t think you understand exactly how repellent Gingrich’s social policies are, or how deep his corporate-humping corruption runs.
Yes, StevoR has made abundantly clear that he really is that stupid.
No, it doesn’t mean that at all. Long-term, I’m in favour of human beings, or (not being a carbon chauvinist) their cultural descendants, living off-Earth as well as on. But this possibility will not even arise if we don’t first ensure that we can go on living on Earth. We need the maximum possible resources, including human ingenuity, focused on that. This genuinely will be good for everyone, both because everyone bar at most a few handfuls has to live here for the forseeable future, and because the measures necessary to protect the environment will also involve massive redistribution – since we need as many people as possible to pull together; and specifcally, huge improvements in the status of women. What we don’t need is selfish shits like you mistaking SF fantasies for reality, and being prepared to sacrifice other people in pursuit of your wish to see a moonbase in your lifetime.
I’ll say a little more about how space research and development can actually be used to improve matters on Earth. First, and most obvious in the short term: more and better environmental monitoring satellites, and upper atmosphere probes. These have already contributed enormously to our understanding of climate, and of Earth system science more broadly. Second, this understanding has also been improved, and could be still more, by comparative planetology – in particular, studies of Mars, Venus and Titan, the three solar system bodies that most resemble Earth. Third, it’s possible that toward the end of the 21st century, we could actually derive resources from space: satellite solar power used either directly, or to produce hydrogen from the water in Earth-crossing asteroids and the moon; elements in limited supply on Earth from those same sources; manufacturing processes that require microgravity. Fourth, although I am chary of this remote possibility being used to raise false hopes and divert attention from the need to cut emissions, the blocking of solar radiation to polar areas as a last resort against positive feedbacks in the climate system resulting from AGW. Note that none of these require a human presence in space, which is a complete diversion from any useful activity; machines, unlike people, can be designed to be robust against the very human-hostile environments found everywhere off Earth, and are also expendable, while the capabilities they can be given are sure to increase greatly even over the next couple of decades.
Someone needs to tell Gingrich “Not now, Newt – we’re still working on Bush’s vision of sending a man to Mars.”
Does anyone else think that maybe Newt’s not really all that religious? I think he’s just a sociopath who’ll say whatever is necessary to get into a position of power.
walton@80,
I’d missed that wonderful display of idiocy from Dan Quayle – thanks for the laugh!
True, but for a very different reason than Quayle. Gingrich is far from stupid; but he will tell any lie to advance his own interests, to an extent unusual even in politicians – as both his political and personal history demonstrate. As StevoR shows, there are many people stupid enough to fall for his lies when they appear to promise something they want. Of course, in Florida, Gingrich is appealing to those who see in his lies a promise of resources going into space research – even though he has promised no such thing. If Gingrich were elected, and was ever faced with the complete failure of any prospect of a privately-funded moonbase to appear, then he’d simply blame “over-regulation”, even if there were effectively no regulations on big business left.
Dan Savage annoys me way more than he has good points. Santorum was cute, but going back to the same well again and trying to fuck over his first name too? Old and tired. Not to mention there are a hell of a lot more Ricks out there than there are Santorums who might not like their name being dragged around like that. God, Savage is just so full of himself.
Other people have already adequately eviscerated SteveoR, but yeah. You think the biggest issue to you is whether we have a permanent base on the moon? Spoken like someone who has a good job, good health insurance, isn’t a woman, and doesn’t give a shit about anyone else.
I’m sure he’s not. He may – or may not – retain some religious beliefs, simply because he was brought up with them, and has never given them any thought, because he never thinks about anything beyond how best to advance the interests of Newt Gingrich. I’ve never seen a more obvious sociopath operating in politics.
Any talk of space exploration as applied science is absurd and demonstrates a woeful misapprehension of what is required to sustain life. Imagine the most dystopian earth future that you can: maybe the atmosphere has been stripped of free oxygen, or we experience runaway warming, polar ice all melts, the zombie apocalypse ends agriculture. Whatever. The earth is still a better place to start over than the fucking moon. We have a gravitational field that can maintain an atmosphere and water. Even if things got so bad here that we had to go underground, obtaining food, water, and oxygen by artificial means, doing so on earth is still orders of magnitude easier than doing so in space, because all of the shit we would need to do so is already here. Any suggestion that space-flight is necessary to save our species ignores the much more obvious solution of changing the way that the presently abundant resources of our own planet are distributed and used.
Fucking space colonies.
Help me remember — does the Milky Way collide with its neighbor before or after our Sun starts expanding? I think those are similar time frames, but that’s alright because the Sun will start boiling our surface water in about a billion years.
So we have about as much time as the entire history of life on our planet to come up with a way to live underground for another couple billion years, and we have about as much time as the entire existence of Earth up to this point to figure out how to escape the Sun’s expansion and death.
These are not realistic fears. AGW, overpopulation (resource wars, etc.), nuclear annihilation (accidental or not); these are more near term existential threats.
it should also be noted that extinction events would not magically not happen just because there were humans in space now. if a ginormous asteroid crashes into earth, it won’t not cause suffering, death, etc. just because there’s other people elsewhere now, too.
meaning, space-flight doesn’t diminish any suffering that may or may not be associated with an earth-human extinction event.
Right, we aren’t going to have A-arks and B-arks (and C- and …) deporting all extant humans from Earth… haha. Or are we! Sci-fi! Spacefarers, ho!! Tardis!!! Vote, Newt!!!~
Antiochus Epiphanes@91,
An excellent point. But what about the mine shaft gap? ;-)
One contribution of space science to our survival I forgot: near-Earth asteroid tracking and (possibly) diversion from collision paths. Even if we only track, we would at least have time to prepare, and avoid a city-obliterating explosion being misidentified as a nuclear attack.
True. Newt has a long history and isn’t hiding anything. His only beliefs are that he needs more money, power, and women. He is clearly a sociopath.
The comments by Newt about a moon colony aren’t believable. Newt will say anything and change it in a heartbeat to get what he wants. It’s just meaningless talk.
I’ll add my 7 cents worth here.
Without space travel, humans are doomed, sooner or later. It’s the eggs and basket problem.
The galaxy appears empty far as we know. With space flight, we could spread out and own it all eventually.
While this is beyond our current technology, modern science is only a few hundred years old. What will we be able to do in a 1,000 years? Ten thousand years? A million years?
One of the main differences between us and the rest of our biosphere. We can dream, plan, and do, not just exist.
Addendum: If you run the numbers, getting a large mass across interstellar distances without Star Trek spaceships is hard. But one can easily imagine seedships with self bootstrapping nanotech and human zygotes (or uploaded human and/or robot minds) that weigh a few dozen pounds or less. One story I read had a terraforming package that weighed 30 kilos.
Science fiction now, but check back in 500 years.
Newt Gingrich would promise a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow if he thought it would win him more votes. He’s pathologically dishonest. Had he been born several centuries earlier, he might have been in the same line of work as Chaucer’s Pardoner, selling papal indulgences and fake relics to the credulous.
what do you mean “might have been”? what do you think he does for money? granted, they’re political indulgences and fake relics rather than religious ones, but those are details.
KG: Point well taken. I meant space exploration in the very strict sense….actually going out into space, rather than making observations, and improving the way we do so.
It may help in the thread about Newt and the Moonbase to read what actual astronomers have to say about it:
The Gingrich who stole the news cycle on the Badastronomy blog.
And here’s a video of Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson weighing in.
But, as Scoop Nisker would say, if you don’t like the politicians, go out and make some of your own…I guess.
a belated second to that sentiment.
there’s little point to occupying wall street.
there’s a great value in occupying a seat on your local school board, or city council.
And here’s a video of Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson weighing in.
I love Neil.
If I had been in that same position, I would have said exactly the same thing, and also ended up accusing myself of screaming at the host.
Neil really is a great successor to Sagan, and in many ways, shows some needed improvements on the outreach front!
If you run the numbers, getting a large mass across interstellar distances without Star Trek spaceships is hard.
I’ve always thought it more likely that something like worm-hole tech would enable long distance travel as opposed to “warp” type tech.
think:
Event Horizon vs Star Trek
…
“What’s the shortest distance between two points?”
“Duh, a line!”
“Wrong. It’s ZERO.”
*folds paper in half, and punches a hole through it*
Francisco Bacopa@21,
Your Google bomb attempt is worthless. The blog automatically adds rel=nofollow to links in comments which causes Google (and several other search engines) to ignore it for purposes of ranking.
StevoR,
You’re allowed to express your opinion. We’re allowed to call you an idiot for having that opinion. That’s how it works.
No, money == political pressure. Do you think rich people want to go to the moon? If they did, they would have lobbied to keep the space program, and it wouldn’t be an issue. You think non-rich people can pressure Congress enough to reinstate a space program? Can I move into your bubble? It looks cozy.
Since you missed it the first time, I’ll quote myself:
Maybe it has something to do with this.
—
sandulap,
Good segment. I love the host’s expression when Tyson says Newt is wrong; he’s like, “Politicians lie? You’re joking!~”
Not sure what what to think of his (Dr. Tyson’s) brushing off of the country’s current needs at the end, though.
According to Urban Dictionary, santorum is defined as:
“The sometimes frothy, usually slimy, amalgam of lubricant, stray fecal matter, and ejaculate that leaks out of the receiving partner’s anus after a session of anal intercourse. Named, by popular demand and usage, after legislator Rick Santorum because of his homophobic political statements.”
How’s your appetite now?
Not sure what what to think of his (Dr. Tyson’s) brushing off of the country’s current needs at the end, though
he doesn’t.
In fact, he very specifically acknowledged those needs, and that in his opinion, the best way to meet them would be to have an overall better economy, and the way to best accomplish that in the past has been to encourage people to have an interest in engineering and science.
competitive economies, and all that.
He’s bloody well right.
I don’t think Humanity has the priviledge of truning down an opprtunity – even one offered by Newton Gingrich
where StevoR really went wrong is in thinking that anything Newt says could actually be interpreted in reality as being an “opportunity” to begin with.
Contract with American, stevie.
remember that one?
yeah.
Synfandel #108
Most of us, certainly all the regulars, know about Dan Savage’s coining of “santorum”. But thank you for tell us again.
No, it didn’t upset my appetite.
Synfandel #108
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_for_%22santorum%22_neologism
StevoR (in case you’re still reading this):
I can’t think of any plausible human-extinction even (other than those made more likely by a Rupublican presidency, e.g. nuclear war or runaway global warming) that is both so imminent that we would be doomed if we don’t start a moon-colony program within the next 4 years. Especially when teh extinction event would have to also be sufficiently far off that starting such a program within the next four years would mean we had an extraterrestrial presence that was viable, self-sufficient, and large enough to effectively continue the species by the time it happened.
Also, Stephen Hawking thinks that the human race has no future if it doesn’t go into space. That is by no means the same as saying the human race has no future unless we immediately abandon all social programs and divert all resources into establishing a moon colony as soon as possible.
I can’t think of any plausible human-extinction even (other than those made more likely by a Rupublican presidency, e.g. nuclear war or runaway global warming) that is both so imminent that we would be doomed if we don’t start a moon-colony program within the next 4 years.
Oddly enough, I just recently finished reading “Stark“.
It won’t spoil the details (it’s comedy gold), but would say that there are, uh, great similarities with the above quoted statement.
Highly recommended reading.
Again, it’s Ben Elton. It’s comedy.
scary, but comedy.
:)
I don’t think Synfandel got the joke xe quoted that Savage was making, or else xe wouldn’t be explaining it as if Savage didn’t make it.
Hmmm, StevoR doen’t happen to be “Messier Tidy Upper” from Phil Plait’s blog, does he?
As a note I’m a big fan of all types of spaceflight – to quote a friend’s t-shirt, “Space is Ace” – but we have a lot of problems to deal with here before putting men back on the moon. The main one, in this case, is that fact that Gingritch is a lying and corrupt cockspanner who’s word I wouldn’t trust further then I could comfortably spit a well-used decaying porcupine…
no surprise here: StevoR isn’t just an Islamophobic asshole, he also supports Gingrich and doesn’t care the slightest about less privileged human beings.
but regarding taking to the stars as humanity’s only option: we still have 1b years IIRC for the sun to make conditions on earth to be unbearable for us. This is a number I honestly can’t relate to. I submit that it might be a little bit more important to improve conditions here on earth within the next decades…
Probably if we keep going like this we will make it all unhabitable much more quickly, but it’s not gonna happen within the next eight years…
Hey Steve, I can get humanity to the stars on the back of my Moon Unicorns. Support me. it’s just as plausible as Newt’s plan.
WEll fuck, the Nazi’s rocket program was doing great…maybe we should have let them win. Not in any position to turn down an opportunity right?
*Godwin.