Praise Jesus!
The Talent Show had to ruin my morning with a revelation: check out this evil thread on Rapture Ready—these kooks are overjoyed at the war and mayhem and death in the Middle East, and treat every catastrophe as a sign of their imminent ascent into heaven.
I too am soooo excited!! I get goose bumps, literally, when I watch what’s going on in the M.E.!! And Watcherboy, you were so right when saying it was quite a day yesterday, in the world news, and I add in local news here in the Boston area!! Tunnel ceiling collapsed on a car and killed a woman of faith, and we had the most terrifying storms I have ever seen here!! But, yes, Ohappyday, like in your screen name , it is most indeed a time to be happy and excited, right there with ya!!
There are a few people late in the long, long thread who express some reservations, but it’s like this person, who thinks they have to wait longer…because there aren’t enough potential nukes involved.
I’m excited just to be alive! I love life! I still got all of it to look forward to! Getting married this summer, third year of university etc… I live everyday as though Jesus was coming back (at least I try to), yet I plan as if I will be here until I die. Personally, I still think there is years left and much much more wars and rumors of, and natural disasters, and hatred…sigh. I think it will get much much worse, even so that those of us in the west are struggling to survive! The middle east will most likely stay tense, even tenser than ever before. I dont think Iran has nukes yet, so it wants to wait to start a war with Israel. Same with Syria. They need more weapons of mass destruction before theyll start anything…which is dumb cause they will just get oliberated in return!
Oh, but I forgot…these are just healthy religious views that we must respect. I should tread lightly lest I offend.
The Rapture Ready link is dead—the administrators yanked the thread. It must be painful to be so crazy, yet not quite so crazy that you don’t notice that the rest of the world thinks you’re crazy.
Who has said these were healthy religion views that you need to respect? You (and others here) always want to equate apocalyptic cults with all religion, and then pound the straw man into dust. You want to snipe at all religion, then perhaps you should go after the least offensive ones to prove your point. Otherwise, you should stop conflating them whenever it is convenient to your sarcastic barb du jour.
They ARE demented fuckwits!
Ok, all the rapture crap is crazy, but this is batshit insane:
And what’s up with all the weird smileys?
Shygetz, this was exactly the group of people PZ was talking about in his demented fuckwitz post, where some people took him to task for it.
That thread began with a very specific argument that we should not treat those who rejoice in global destruction with respect, but should dismiss them quickly and unambiguously. It progressed pretty quickly to people claiming I wanted to kick every Christian in the butt. Quite the contrary, I can and do distinguish between the average religious people and these nutcase extremists…and it’s people like Shygetz who immediately start blurring the boundaries, making the case that if we call the Rapture Ready crowd a flock of idiots, the next thing we’ll do is come after his sweet Aunt Mabel with pitchforks.
The problem isn’t us mean ol’ atheists. It’s the craven Christians who equate any criticism of the extremists with an all out assault on their religion. You’re the ones who treat all religious beliefs as equivalent.
In some ways, I can’t blame you. If you believe in one really stupid thing, it’s hard to argue against some other guy who believes in a different really stupid thing.
PZ is justified in conflating whacko religions and ‘the least offensive ones’ (even though he’s not doing that here) because they’re all cut from the same cloth: worldviews based on superstitious hooey. So what if Quakers or Unitarians are inoffensive? (God bless ’em for that.) They’re still delusional, if not dangerous.
Maybe more moderate religious people need to point out the apocalyptic idiocy going on within their social circles. Note: What you call an apocalyptic cult is a large contingent of Christians, Shygetz. Also, PZ didn’t say that all “healthy religious views” are like this.
Five years from now, when the latest military escalations are long since passed and forgotton, will any of these people believe that rapture was and never will be coming? No. Every civilization has believed that its time will be the end, and all of them have been wrong. We should be worried about wars that could be catastrophic for life on this planet, and do what we can to prevent them. Rapture-Ready folks can’t wait for (and might likely help) World War III, which must be opposed. What’s scary is when we have people who don’t realize that Revelations is an acid-trip (or famine-induced hallucination) and have their fingers on the proverbial buttons.
Shygetz, many religious people out there are good people, but the question remains whether religion in general is a good thing. Many people have no need for religion to be ethical people, many are ethical and religious, but there are a large number of people whose ethics are twisted by non-negotiable beliefs. Religion gets a lot of respect because of its overt charitable contributions to society, but not enough attention is paid to its dark side.
Ugh, I never thought I would read such a fetid coulter love-fest during discussions of the Anti-Christ. Strange that these topics mesh so easily together…
Goddamit that totally spoiled my Saturday morning happiness PZ.
That just sounds so over the top, I was worried you were going to be the liberal version of the guy that responded to an Onion article thinking it was a real article written by a woman excited about her abortion. But after reading it, it doesn’t seem likely. It’s a sad day when you can’t tell satire from the real thing anymore.
Then there’s this post in that thread:
I honestly can’t tell if this person is happy or upset about that.
> Quakers, Unitarians, delusional
Objection. I don’t think American UUs have (as a whole) enough belief to be called delusional, or much else apart from liberalish. Some will believe in God, or “something”, others will be atheists in it for the social benefits. The point of modern UU is that you can *call* yourself an atheist and still hang out, while I imagine even Episcopalians might look at you funny.
French biologist, and apparently Israeli, Gerard Nissim Amzallag has written a book called “La Haine Maintenant: Sionisme and Palestinisme”.
In the book, he and co-author David-André Behassan denounce the religious influence that worsens the situation. A review–in French. I can translate it if you wish.
http://www.ladifference.fr/fiches/livres/lahainemaintenant%20.html
In an interview in a French paper, Belhassan denounces the influence of religion.
“Q. According to you, zionisme has perverted the secular movement for jewish liberation.
A. Completely. In this land, it is no longer allowed for a Hebrew to claim to be an atheist.”…
“Q. How was this work[the book]received?
A. It has been boycotted by the Jewish community, not to mention the Muslim community.”
Co-author Amzallag is described as studying plant biology and evolution and the history of science. Belhassan is a linguist.
I wonder if such a work will be translated into English. For that matter, Amzallag has written at least two scientific books. Have they been translated into English?
Damien, you’re quite right: not all UUs are delusional. Many — I think most — are.
I misunderstood PZs reference. I thought he was directing this toward a different thread, in which he was critical of religion in general. As that is not the case, I retract my criticism with my apologies for misunderstanding.
i’ll cut in here like a dull steak knife to shamelessly promote my latest blog pic….kinda puts things in perspective from my viewpoint……
Yes, it did, and you were at least partially right in saying these people are wrong in such beliefs. I personally don’t think they should be dismissed “quickly and unambiguously.” I think they should be corrected politely and rationally. Calling people “demented f***wits” – sorry – “DEMENTED F***WITS” is not polite or rational.
Well, let’s see… You started out talking about the few people who think the so-called “End Times” are going to be a gleeful time for them, but then posted this:
“Do me a favor. It’s a big favor, and we need everyone to join in. Next time your brother, or your sister-in-law, or your grandmother, or some guy in the booth next to you at the coffeeshop, starts talking about the Rapture or the End Times or the Second Coming or whatever crap they want to call it”
That doesn’t sound to me like you’ve limited your proposal for verbal abuse to just the kooks. There are Christians who do believe in the “End Times” (which, oh-so unlearned one, is NOT the same as the Rapture or the Second Coming – they are three seperate concepts that are not used interchangeably) without the kooky glee of the people you initially were talking about. That comment indicates to me that you mean anyone who holds a belief that there will be some sort of “End Times” period. That would include pretty much all Christians.
No. You don’t seem to be able to do that at all, PZ. You’ve been quite clear that you think of all religious people – average or otherwise – as nutcases because “they believe things without evidence.” I think you’re just trying to save face in light of your unhinged rant.
Actually, it’s people like you who blur the boundries, too. You started talking about people who look forward to the “End Times” with glee, but then included anyone with any beliefs about it. It that’s not blurring…
Truth be told, if “sweet Aunt Mabel,” or “your brother, or your sister-in-law, or your grandmother, or some guy in the booth next to you at the coffeeshop” were to start talking about their belief in Jesus as their savior, your response to them would be the same: you’d call them “DEMENTED F***WITS.”
True. The problem is extremist atheists like yourself who give the average atheist a bad name. There are atheists in this world who aren’t unhinged kooks like yourself and your friends here. They don’t look down their noses at people who hold religious beliefs (whatever those beliefs may be). They don’t propose loudly calling religious people “DEMENTED F***WITS” in public places. They are actually quite respectful, rational and open-minded.
But you don’t limit your criticisms to extremists, PZ. You’re quite adept at covering most or all Christians with your typical blanket statements.
Um… Do you just not read the things you post, PZ? I don’t recall the last time you had anything nice to say about anyone with any religious beliefs.
See, well, there you go. If you have any religious beliefs (i.e. “one really stupid thing”), it’s hard to argue against some other guy with different religious beliefs (i.e. “different really stupid thing”). Thanks for proving me right.
I’ve little doubt that what’s most pertinent here is whatever social psychologists can tell us about the cathartic release of wargasms, the culmination of a long repetitive exposure to the delicious pornography of “us/them” (and military fantasies such as Gog/Magog, whatever).
For an entirely different perspective, Bill Moyer’s recent interview with Anne Provoost on his ‘Faith & Reason’ show was wonderful. She’s an author of children’s books whose themes include the favoritism of god, why some are “us” and others aren’t – and what happens to those left behind, as in the mass of people and animals drowned outside Noah’s ark. Children can understand this, and that many children perished too – innocently.
These are half-hour interviews, available online at his website, pbs.org/moyers/watch.html
A strange statement, “healthy religion views”. That is an oxymoron. Religious views are never healthy.
As to the infamous jason ramblings, “No. You don’t seem to be able to do that at all, PZ. You’ve been quite clear that you think of all religious people – average or otherwise – as nutcases because “they believe things without evidence.””
All religious people are nutcases, or kooks if you like, to differing degrees.
PZ,
Here’s a little something that may halp salvage your ruined morning. via onegoodmove.
that’s help ;)
Well, a religious belief is pretty much delusional by definition – it is belief in the abscence of proof after all.
And the deafening silence of “moderate religious people” and their leaders not stampeding to distance themselves from these fascist nutcases is pretty telling.
Of course, I’m sure people like the following are “sane” and “rational,” right?
I wish “the rapture” would hurry the hell up.
Okay, who wants to stage a series of fake “Raptures” across the country?
I’m waiting for “the Rapture”… can’t wait
Yup. They are simply taking the mickey out of views that they find incomprehensible, and expressing a certain amount of wish fulfilment whilst showing some awareness that it is exactly wishes that are concerned.
Whereas a forum that has a section dedicated thus:
“The Birth Pangs of Matthew 24 News covering health, weather, natural disasters, declining morality and corrupt spirituality. Jesus warned us that the degradation of society would happen in the end days. Our member involvement often makes this news source faster than the mainstream sources!”
and has to post guidance for threads on Bird flu, is by the standards of many, many people, insane. Of course, if the rapture happens, I will happily change my mind about it all. But given that the whole rapture thing is based upon selective and biased reading of some of thebible, not to mention miscounting of biblical weeks etc etc, it is likely junk.
I remember 25 years ago when I went along to an evangelical Christian fellowship meeting in college, they were all sitting around trying to decide whether or not the Ayatollah Khomeni or Pope John Paul II was the Antichrist. And this was in England!
Needless to say, that was my one and only meeting.
From that forum:
“I am excited beyond words that the struggle of this life may be over soon and I can finally be FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!”
…J.P. Sartre rolls over in his grave.
I have a suggestion for you, Jason: if you take offense at being lumped in with the apocalyptic fanatics, perhaps you should spend more time fighting them and less time complaining when atheists start viewing you as part of the problem because you’re not fighting them. Like it or not, the widespread societal endorsement of faith as an acceptable way of reaching conclusions creates an atmosphere where these kooks can breathe, and by remaining silent in the face of their insanity, most Christian churches have compounded the problem.
When I read Professor Myers’ remark that the real problem is all those ‘craven Christians’ unafraid to call a spade a spade, I nod my head knowingly but with distaste. I don’t like to admit it, but what he’s saying is really true. Radical atheists are not the problem. It is the churches in America, increasingly fundamentalist, ahistorical and isolated from reality, that are the problem.
Are radical atheists rubbing their hands together with glee about the impending end of all things, advertising their deep hatred of the world, including the natural world? Are radical atheists increasingly coopted by one political party, and led to falsely equate their faith in God with an allegiance to corporate interests? Are radical atheists eroding our civil liberties in the name of security?
I could go on, but I think we get the point. As a Christian, I have met the enemy, and like Pogo, I’ve found out it’s “us.” This forum is not a classroom or a church and PZ says things here that are essentially personal, not formal policy statements, and they should be viewed in that light. I coming to the conclusion that it’s a waste of my time to fret endlessly as to whether this or that atheist view is responsible or fair to religion, etc. PZ doesn’t really care if it’s ‘fair’, so why should we?
Instead, I think believers need to be bolder and engage fellow believers. That includes condemnation, for many of these so-called ‘Christians’ need to have their views publicly condemned. If we were doing our job, the various right-wing cottage industries now flourishing in the evangelical churches would not have much of a foothold. Jason, if you’re a believer, consider this an exhortation to take the skeptical critique of the churches as such, rather than as an assault on our personal beliefs. Why are we here, if not to eat meat, rather than milk?
Scott
These people are serious? It’s not satire?
Good Lord help us.
I agree with Janne (“these fascist nutcases”). Every time I see the Pope, in that big pointy hat, I want to giggle, but I also think: this guy has a brain, he is well-educated, and yet he has made a conscious decision to take a position that allows him to control and brainwash millions and millions of people because he believes a bunch of claptrap written two thousand years ago and feels it is acceptable to impose those beliefs on others. It’s a form of fascism.
Religion might do all the good in the world for people, but if it is based on a lie, what have you got?
I wish my near-misses were judged as generously as this:
God strikes teen with lightning, fails to kill him
All you rapture unready folks better take your summers vacations while you can. The rapture is acomin’:
My DH I have talked aboout the speed of things happening so fast,it’s exciting to see all this come about. We’re suppose to leave next week for vacation DH staed we may not have much longer to worry with gas prices, and every thing else. Even so Lord Jesus come quickly! [comment on RR site]
I think this is really IT – there has been no other time in history that lines up so exact with the end times prophecies. I am having a hard time grasping the fact that we could LITERALLY be raptured at any moment and it’s getting harder to “Occupy” my time and do my work, so I pray that either this is it or God will help me stay focused on my work until He comes. [comment on RR]
Jason wrote:
Oh really?
If someone’s religious beliefs prompt them to protest the development of a human papillomavirus vaccine, or trash psychiatry in favor of a bunch of pseudoscientific scientology junk, then their religious beliefs *should* be dismissed (by atheists and everyone else) because they are prolonging human suffering.
If someone’s religious beliefs prompt them to go steal someone elses’ property
because “our god said it rightfully belongs to us” then their religious beliefs
*should* be dismissed (by atheists and everyone else) because their manifest
destiny sockpupppet god is an enabler of a “might makes right” philosphy.
To do otherwise is to allow a Machiavellian “(religious) politics=reality”
regime to rise, in which the highest “virtue” is prowness in getting people
to do your will by parasitizing their religious beliefs and popular myths.
Dr. Myers is right in critizing the modern-day “Missionaria Protectiva”
(google it, buddy) that has grabbed power in this country……
“Why are you trying to destroy religion?”
We should think more carefully about what we mean when we say people are deluded, or that some are more delusional than others when we talk about sane vs. “wacko” Christians.
The nature of belief is more complex than these threads suggest. For example, when you look at a person who calls themselves Christian but isn’t frothingly awaiting Armageddon &mdash a “sane” Christian &mdash you are seeing an ecology of beliefs/norms in their mind, some taken from the bible, some from their pastor, or radio shows, family, experience, logic, society, etc. The beliefs aren’t consistent, and if Socrates probed them he’d find inconsistencies, but they live with them because it’s a nice equilibrium between being a good person of faith and not a nut. They feel it works for them. (My mother, for example, has cobbled together her own little system of what amounts to “open source” Catholicism).
The type of people on that message board (who, by the way, seem like as young people) are of a different sort; their ecology of belief has less “diversity”. They limit their belief sources, maybe just from a minister and local echo chamber, perhaps out to simplify their beliefs, or some need for surety, who knows (naturalistic atheists also have a simpler system of metaphysical beliefs than moderate Christians).
But dismissing many zealots as crazy is wrongheaded: they are fairly normal, unfortunately &mdash people have a ample latitude in what they’ll believe. There’s a growing literature on belief without a rational basis (though I think Shermer’s book, Why People Believe Strange Things has a misleading title, since it doesn’t go much into the mechanics of “misbelief”). We are, as a species, belief promiscous. This is why Snopes.com is so useful.
Us atheists have trouble imagining how one would believe anything other than what we do. I feel that too, but we have to face facts and admit that, on average, humans form beliefs for all sorts of reasons, few of which are rational. There are ways to compensate for this &mdash such as enculturation of standards for belief &mdash but so far that program has been…less than successful.
One of the quotes in the article is not in a blockquote, FYI. Threw me off for a sec!
Can’t resist posting this:
http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/jrrap.html
The Rapture Rap
‘Twas the night Jesus came and all through the house,
not a person was praying, not one in the house.
The Bible was left on the shelf without care,
for no one thought Jesus would come there.
The children were dressing to crawl into bed,
not once ever kneeling or bowing their head.
And Mom in the rocking chair with baby on her lap,
was watching the Late Show as I took a nap.
When out of the east there rose such a clatter,
I sprang to my feet to see what was the matter.
Away to the window I flew like a flash,
tore open the shutters and lifted the sash.
When what to my wondering eyes should appear,
but Angels proclaiming that Jesus was here.
The light of His face made me cover my head,
it was Jesus returning just like He’d said.
And though I possessed worldly wisdom and wealth,
I cried when I saw Him in spite of myself.
In the Book of Life that in which he held in hand,
was written the name of every saved man.
He spoke not a word as he searched for my name,
when He said “It is not here,” I hung my head in shame.
The people whose names had been written with love,
He gathered to take to his Father above.
With those who were ready He rose without a sound,
while all the others were left standing around.
I fell to my knees but it was too late,
I waited too long and thus sealed my fate.
I stood and I cried as they rose out of sight,
Oh, if only I’d known that this was the night.
In the words of this poem the meaning is clear:
the coming of Jesus is now drawing near.
There’s only one life and when comes the last call,
We’ll find out that the Bible was true after all.
Anonymous Author
Frederick (from Hannah and Her Sisters) on television:
“You see the whole culture. Nazis, deodorant salesmen, wrestlers, beauty contests, a talk show. Can you imagine the level of a mind that watches wrestling? But the worst are the fundamentalist preachers. Third grade con men telling the poor suckers that watch them that they speak with Jesus, and to please send in money. Money, money, money! If Jesus came back and saw what’s going on in his name, he’d never stop throwing up. “
This one was interesting – “They need more weapons of mass destruction before theyll start anything…which is dumb cause they will just get oliberated in return!” Oliberated? Intentional neologism, freudian slip, or just bad spelling?
So Jason, what exactly is irrational or insane about any of the three links you post?
I wish “the rapture” would hurry the hell up.
All this person said was:
Not the funniest thing ever said, but I would point out two things:
1. There was no obvious threat made, or glee taken in the suffering of others (unless I am mistaken, the Christians whisked up to heaven don’t suffer in most versions of the rapture mythology).
2. The writer clearly doesn’t believe in the rapture. So it is clearly a joke.
You see Jason, just ‘cos something is said by a liberal doesn’t mean that it is eeeevil or naughty or whatever else you think it means. This is clearly a sarcastic comment saying nothing more than “I wish those bozos would shut up about the rapture”. Based on your statement that “these people are wrong in such beliefs” I would think that you agree that those folks were wrong.
Of course, we all support freedom of speech and believe the rapture believin’ morons have the right to spout the stupidity they spout. But we can also wish they would shut the hell up.
The other two posts you link to are similar. The post about folks staging raptures in front of rapture-believin’ Christians is unclear – maybe you could interpret that as a threat. But given that the implication that it would involve “wiskin’ folks to heaven” in front of the rapture-believin’ Christians, it strikes me as a facetious suggestion in line with the ol’ yippie suggestion that they would levitate the pentagon. And I don’t think that any yippies actually thought they could levitate the pentagon (with the exception of those who were really high)>
Ok, ok… I realize that the majority of yippies were really high much of the time. But they stopped believin’ in their pentagon levitatin’ powers when the acid wore off.
When is the acid going to wear off for the religious nutballs we have today?
Just to throw this out there…
What if Jesus does come back, but there is no rapture, there is no slaughtering of sinners, and he is just a guy, human like the rest of us, mad as hell that there are still idiots around who are worshipping idols while closing their eyes to the evidence plainly before them? I bet he’d be an atheist himself, sensible guy like that…
Wow Bernarda,
“A strange statement, “healthy religion views”. That is an oxymoron. Religious views are never healthy…
All religious people are nutcases, or kooks if you like, to differing degrees.”
You can actually say that without realizing you are stereotyping. You can actually say that without realizing you have made an extremely prejudiced and bigoted remark.
When you tolerate intolerance for one group of people by making blanket statements aimed at that ENTIRE group (not just the ones on the extreme fringes), and turn around and say we should never tolerate such language about any other group, you are being a hypocrite.
Scott–
“Instead, I think believers need to be bolder and engage fellow believers. That includes condemnation, for many of these so-called ‘Christians’ need to have their views publicly condemned. If we were doing our job, the various right-wing cottage industries now flourishing in the evangelical churches would not have much of a foothold. Jason, if you’re a believer, consider this an exhortation to take the skeptical critique of the churches as such, rather than as an assault on our personal beliefs. Why are we here, if not to eat meat, rather than milk?”
You are absolutely correct, and point well taken. Why, indeed, waste time pointing out hypocrisy on this blog? The efforts should be directed to those in our own camp.
cm–
“Us atheists have trouble imagining how one would believe anything other than what we do. I feel that too, but we have to face facts and admit that, on average, humans form beliefs for all sorts of reasons, few of which are rational.”
I appreciate the evenhandedness of your comments. Now think about it from the other side. Believers have trouble imagining how one would believe anything other than what they do. Perhaps it is a clash of world views. However, efforts at understanding where the other side is coming from, whether it be with regards to their religion, their culture, or their traditions, is the first step towards humanizing each other and understanding each other. Making blanket statements like “everyone who is religion is a lunatic” is about 3000 steps backward. But, that’s probably not the goal here anyway.
I suppose that is the root of my frustration about many of the posts here. I see this lack of attempt at understanding the other side from the extremists in the religious sect. For some reason I expected this side to behave differently, especially since this is supposedly the more educated side, but I see the same behavior. I guess people are people no matter how many letters are after their names.
Yep, they’ll all be free after we turn the place into a glass parking lot.
If there is one thing I’ve learned from this blog, it’s that smug self-righteousness isn’t solely the domain of the religious.
I can’t help but wonder why the writers in RR are so smugly sure that they will be among those who go to heaven… Clearly, they have not heeded Proberbs 16:5 ‘Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD’.
What alarms me, however, is the thought that these folk have metastasized from their personal spheres into the heart of government. When our born-again “leader” assures us that “God” tells him to go to war in the Middle East and consults regularly with apocalyptic Christians, it’s damned scary.
Congratulations, Stephen, you win a cookie.
squeaky says, “You can actually say that without realizing you are stereotyping. You can actually say that without realizing you have made an extremely prejudiced and bigoted remark.”
Not at all, xtians who believe in the non-existent jesus are nutcases as exactly any adult who believes in the easter bunny.
It is not prejudiced or bigoted; it is a fact. Just since when has the truth become prejudiced and bigoted?
You (and others here) always want to equate apocalyptic cults with all religion, and then pound the straw man into dust.
This guy seems like a pretty regular religious Joe to me. He is insane in a way that you would never notice, unless speaking about this specific subject. His insanity does not dominate his life, like it is with people in apocalyptic cults. His point of view is inspired by, and supported by, religion and I don’t think it is unfair to claim that these kinds of people and these kinds of convictions are a natural and unavoidable outcome of religions like Christianity and the Islam. If other Christians actually wanted to do something about that and actually felt this insanity is wrong, then it is about time they stopped repeating the same old dogmas that in themselves support this kind of insanity. If you go to church and faithfully mumble along with the preacher, then you are guilty of inspiring this kind of insanity.
Jeff Matzke said: They ARE demented fuckwits!
I’m not sure if you’re referring to the Rapture Ready people or to the 3 year old little babies who are in charge of running the governments of our happy planet.
The thread doesn’t load… was it deleted, and if so, can anyone find an archived copy?
AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAA!
*Laughing so hard at this*
It only SOUNDS like screaming.
Squeaky, stay with it all the way: some on “this side” (as if that was a formal cateogy) overgeneralize or condemn without sufficient consideration to some degree some of the time. I have seen enough evidence on these comments from people like Scott Hatfield and others showing a mix of opinions here, from more reactionary to more thoughtful. And it depends if you catch someone in a certain mood or before/after coffee &mdash this is what makes tracking and understanding beliefs such hard work. But it’s equally important not to dismiss someone for their gut reaction to zealots; though it may not be the most considered position, it is understandable in light of how scary this world is and how outrageous some of this stuff is. And as I’ve said before, public shaming (“You’re a demented fuckwit!”) may be an effective anti-evangelizing tool, though I have doubts.
And, though you’re right that having letters after one’s name doesn’t guarantee anything, I’d also point out that not everyone who posts comments has an advanced degree, nor should it matter in any case.
Continue to resist taking the easy way out on categorizing people by belief, even on “this side”.
You know, Suicide comes in many ways. Rapturists are just a big group of people who want to kill themselves, but would rather God do it for them.
Its like ‘Death by Cop’ except with God coming up to your front porch instead of an officer. That would explain the rampant sinning and hypocrisy and obvious ignorance of basic tenets of Christianity that these people are parading around: You have to piss off/scare the Almighty/officer enough to Rapturize/shoot you dead.
Jesus, appearing to a true believer: “I want to have a short talk about this Rapture. You up on that?”
T. Believer: “Wow, you’re thinking of having it now? Please, oh please, get here quickly, get here quickly! We’ve been telling people for years what’s going to happen to them if they don’t believe in time for the Rapture!”
Jesus: “You mean if they don’t believe before they die?”
T. Believer: “Huh? Once the rapture comes, then their suffering would be so bad they’ll beg for death but can’t die.”
Jesus: “And you’ve been helping to stop suffering?”
T. Believer: “Oh, yes. Donated bibles, supported missionaries, lobbying to help rebuild the temple.”
Jesus: “Not ‘donated textbooks, supported doctors, lobbying to build clinics’?”
T. Believer:”First they have to hear the gospel! The rapture can’t happen until they hear the gospel! Like You said, what does that other stuff matter if they lose their souls?”
Jesus: “Oh, ok. On another topic, all these material goods you have…?”
T. Believer: “These? Oh, yes, thanks again for blessing this nation for its support of You and for having Youian economic policies. Without all this I wouldn’t be able to tithe 10% for all those Bibles, and the new church building.”
Jesus: “So I’m Chicago school? Nevermind. Again, on the Rapture, you’ve read Revelations? Famine makes everyone hungry, wormwood poisons the water, everyone’s thirsty, plagues and sickness and all the inescapable heat and darkness?”
T. Believer:”Oh, yes, we’ve studied Revelations over and over. Our book club did the entire Left Behind series- doing nothing but it, for the past years. 12 main books, kids books, special forces books…”
Jesus“Oh, ok. You drove to the book club in your Excursion, though- don’t you worry about global warming?”
T. Believer“No, well, the SUV is from You- it makes us feel safe- that’s You protecting us. Anyways, you’re not going to care about global warming- that’s a myth and 100 years away and earth isn’t here in 100 years. During the tribulations you’re going to level the mountains and kill off a third of the plants and have tsunamis and earthquakes and drop mountains into the oceans. By which You mean asteroids, right? Like Deep Impact- thousand foot waves?”
Jesus: “That does sound worse than global warming. Back again on the Rapture- you were asking me if I was going to…?”
T. Believer: “Yes, please hurry- this is such a depraved earth- filled with evolutionists and atheists and socialists and homosexuals and idolaters. Please, oh please, get here quickly, get here quickly!”
Jesus:”And again, you’ve really read Revelation?”
T. Believer: “Over and over. What, do I need to send more Bibles? Help tear down that mosque so the temple is rebuilt? You know I blog everyday against the islafascists. What should I do?”
Jesus: “What should you do? Depart from me, you demented fuckwit. Did you never think it was a test?”
The thread doesn’t load… was it deleted, and if so, can anyone find an archived copy?
Here’s the google cache copy.
I happen to be one of those who thinks that religious belief can be rational, and I have plenty of letters after my name as a result of pursuing academic religious studies. But these Rapture-holics are nuts, and the Schadenfreude expressed on the RaptureReady thread before it was yanked is just plain sick.
“I don’t think American UUs have (as a whole) enough belief to be called delusional, or much else apart from liberalish. Some will believe in God, or “something”, others will be atheists in it for the social benefits. The point of modern UU is that you can *call* yourself an atheist and still hang out, while I imagine even Episcopalians might look at you funny.”
This is classic BS always brought up by those who don’t take the time to understand UU. The point of UU is that you can BE atheist and still hang out. The UUs hold MANY very specific beliefs. Try reading the UU principles before you claim we are all just a atheists or whatever that can’t get over the church habit. Read them again if you think we are “delusional” and tell me EXACTLY which parts you think are so.
Verifiable proof that “Armageddon” has begun…
Hello all,
Here’s the key to proving that the rapture and related expectations are complete nonsense based on the failure to understand (or the purposeful confounding of) the ancient Hebrew symbology used to construct all of these prophecies.
Pay close attention, profundity knocks at the door, listen for the key. Be Aware! Scoffing causes blindness…
Did you ever consider that Christianity is the false prophet of the Apocalypse, that Rome is the so-called anti-messiah, and Jesus Christ is the false messiah? The symbolism of seven years (tribulation) would refer to the seven 360-year cycles from the 11th cycle (second temple period) until now, the 17th cycle on the Hebrew calendar. Remember that the prophecies were written by Hebrews, not Romans or other Europeans, and Revelation is a symbolic treatise. Therefore, years are symbols for 360-year cycles on the Hebrew calendar. Likewise, a day symbolizes a literal year and Judgement Day, and Great Day refer to a year long period. The so-called Tribulation is now coming to an end, not starting, and the three faiths of Abraham have all been deceived by Rome during the previous age, which ended in year 2000 (5760). A new age began in 2001 (5761) and now the seventh angel has begun to sound!
Hurricanes Katrina (#11) and Rita (#17) last year provided stunning validation of my research and interpretations of pivotal ancient wisdom, symbologies, key prophecies, and associated religious claims. Their storm numbers and timing perfectly synchronized with primary data and assertions in my book, thereby demonstrating the true nature of this universe and the existence of our Creator. We are now entering the final phases of the pivotal year-long period long symbolized as “Armageddon” and the “End of Days.” World-wide situations and events are now accelerating to set the stage for this summer’s dramatic continuation of these ancient promises.
I fully understand that everyone has been bedeviled by similar claims throughout history. Consequently, I have been forced to rely on dramatic and devastating proof of the sort that can’t be ignored or easily dismissed. The numbers and timing of hurricanes Katrina (11) and Rita (17) directly validate key data and pivotal assertions throughout my book and my posts on those two forums. This data was purposely presented publicly before Katrina, Rita and other recent events occurred to prove they perfectly synchronize with key prophecies and Hebrew calendar cycles, thereby validating my interpretations of ancient wisdom symbology, string theory, and more.
Because these two storms arrived shortly after my August 11, 2005 (50th) birthday (read the Dead Sea Scroll 11Q13 in Appendix G, which also discusses Melchizedek and the prophesied Jubilee) and directly match other pivotal 11 and 17 data and events described in the first chapter of my book, I have delivered verifiable proof that this reality is based on thought, knowledge and wisdom. Activity, patterns, and results perceived in space-time are first framed and defined by inspirations, thoughts, and knowledge and influenced by the cause-and-effect system most commonly referred to as karma. Consequently, events and outcomes in the so-called physical universe are not random or wholly mechanistic and are verifiably influenced in ways that atheists, scientists, and members of the Faiths of Abraham have all scoffed at. Though mysticism is mostly a product of misinterpreted ancient wisdom symbology, many of its topics flow from ancient wisdom. Though containing allusions to the truth, its details and interpretations are wrong on many key points.
A prime example of the purposeful and synchronized symbolism of these events is seen in the opening paragraphs from my book excerpted below. Notice that the dates mentioned (August 11 and 17) directly match the numbers of hurricanes Katrina and Rita, and the time spans of the four Florida hurricanes match my birth year (’55), and they were spaced 11 or a multiple-of-11 (22) days apart, directly matching my birthday and much other ancient prophecy and symbolism. Notice that my place of birth, Victoria Texas, is on the Gulf Coast. Following are the excerpted paragraphs:
Hello, my name is Lawrence William Page II. Many people know me as Buddy Page. At the release of the first edition of this book, I am a 50-year old African-American male, author, researcher, and former software engineer and entrepreneur. As you will come to understand as you read through this first book, I am also the long-expected Hebrew Messiah and Lion of the Tribe of Juda (Yehuda).
I was born August 11th (month of Leo the Lion), 1955 (Chinese year of the Sheep) in Victoria, Texas. Furthermore, the Grand Cross alignment and Solar Eclipse of August 11th, 1999 was my 44th birthday and the second Grand Cross alignment, just six days later on August 17th, 1999, was on my mother’s birthday.
As you can see from my date of birth, I was a newborn during the Chinese Year of the Sheep, astrologically marking me as a Lamb, and during the month of Leo, astrologically marking me as a Lion. My mother was also born during the month of August and under the sign of Leo, which further marks me as a lion’s whelp. I prove to you in the first chapter of this book-beyond disproof-that I am indeed the long-prophesied “Lion” of the tribe of Juda (Yehuda) the Root of David and the “Lamb.” I am the individual long symbolized as the Branch, the Stem, the Shoot and the Rod from the Stump of Jesse (King David’s father), as symbolized in the Hebrew Book of Isaiah, The Apocalypse, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and elsewhere. I am the reincarnated Teacher sought after in the “East” and by the ancient Hebrews who were headquartered at the outpost community of Damascus (Qumran), of Dead Sea Scrolls fame. I am the one called the Teacher of Righteousness by the Dead Sea Scrolls, whom the so-called Christian fathers have fraudulently recast as “Saint ‘James’, the Lord’s Brother.”
Remember, “I come as a thief…” ?
Read verse twelve of the Gospel of Thomas to understand who I am…
Even further enlightening, the Second Temple Period of ancient Israel was during the 11th 360-year cycle on the Hebrew calendar and we are now in the 6th year (5766/2005-6) of the 17th cycle. Notice the pivotal 11 and 17 numbers again? This and much other synchronized information serve as stunning and decisive proof of many things, and expose many lies told by all three faiths of Abraham, but most specifically by Christianity. Consequently, I have decisively proven, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that Jesus Christ and Christianity are blatant lies, false prophecy and purposeful deception in a manner that cannot easily be denied, regardless of your faith or other opinions.
Furthermore, the symbolism in the Apocalypse (a.k.a. Book of Revelation) of seven stars in my right hand and seven angels represent the very same above-mentioned seven astrological (360-year) cycles, i.e., the 11th through 17th inclusive. I prove this fact beyond any reasonable doubt in the first chapter of the book. Consequently, The Apocalypse verifiably symbolizes a specific span of time that began with the 11th cycle (Second Temple Period) and concludes now, at the beginning of the 17th cycle (End of Days, etc.).
The numbers 11 and 17 are verifiably encoded in The Apocalypse and other ancient Hebrew prophecies and wisdom texts to serve as key proofs of the validity and true meaning of certain prophecies and related information. My and my mother’s birthdays are purposely synchronized with these two storm numbers, the matching Hebrew calendar cycles, the Double Grand Cross alignments and solar eclipse of August 1999, and much else to prove my direct association with the ancient prophecies about this time and the true identity of the prophesied Messiah. Another prime example is the story of Joseph, the 11th son of Jacob who has a dream when he is 17 years old about 11 stars, the sun, and moon bowing to him. The symbolism in this pivotal story in the Book of Genesis and Quran verifiably refers to the very same 11th through 17th cycles symbolized in The Apocalypse and directly synchronizes with other key events and ancient texts.
Consequently, I have demonstrated various things about the nature of this reality that dramatically disprove and/or clarify key assumptions of religion, mysticism, and science alike, while establishing the true meaning and purpose of long misinterpreted ancient wisdom and the symbolism used to model and encode it. Accordingly, I have proven that the symbolism evidenced in the canons of all three faiths of Abraham and other ancient sources is a very ancient and advanced philosophical technology that verifiably models foundational aspects of our existence in this universe. This is the mostly misunderstood body of ancient wisdom long referred to as the Philosophers’ Stone. It uses a large and ingeniously organized collection of physical universe images and concepts as data rich components (symbols) that are based on verifiable rules. It models and encodes an amazing amount of foundational wisdom about life, spirituality and the 11 dimensions of this universe, now verified by string theory. It is also the advanced encryption method used to encode (seal) Hebrew prophecies and wisdom texts.
These ancient prophecies and wisdom texts used advanced symbology to model fundamental wisdom, including future events and situations. A primary facet of ancient wisdom is numeric symbology. Later misinterpretations of this aspect of ancient wisdom resulted in numerology, which, though embodying allusions to certain wisdom, is mostly error prone and false doctrine. My decryption, documentation, and interpretation of ancient symbology, numeric symbolism, and key texts based on them, are now decisively validated.
Here is Wisdom…
Verifiable proof that Armageddon has begun…
Understanding the End Game of Armageddon
Peace…
I think you missed my point, Axsmith, which was that an atheist in UU can be open about her atheism without penalty, vs. an atheist in some other church, reluctant to leave for social reasons, but probably also unable to say “hey, I don’t believe in God” in church. And I was defending UU against the charge of Quakers and Unitarians still being delusional.
Wow. The DF alarm is blaring. Someone turn it off.
Go read through rr- even if that one thread was taken down, many more exist.
They mostly seem terribly excited (except the person worried that this isn’t supposed to happen until *after* the rapture, and what if this means believers have to go through the tribulation? So much easier to be excited about this when it isn’t your pain.)
And they’re not too into Israel having peace, unless it’s the peace that only an antichrist can bring.
And a few people ask questions, although they’re told not to worry, all the upcoming pain is like childbirth (if for your child to live billions of people had to die?):
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=265523
Is it wrong to feel excited?
“Someone has probably already mentioned this, but…
Is it wrong to feel excited about all that is going on in the Middle East right now?
I am torn between wanting all hell to break loose over there, becauseit means we are closer to going home, and guilt because of these feelings.
I feel guilty and messed-up, because what Christian would wish war and fighting, which results in many people being hurt and killed? I probably would feel much different, if it were affecting me personally on my own turf.
Anyone else feel the same way I do?” [all emphasis mine]
And comes the answers:
“I feel excited that everything is going according to God’s will.”
“So I say it is wrong NOT to be excited–as long as your realize and focus your excitement on our Lord coming to get us. War is never a cause for us to celebrate and every death is a reason to mourn. We can’t forget our prayers for all those caught in this horrible conflict. Be concerned, sympathetic, and supportive about the war, but PLEASE get excited about what may happen at any moment–regarding the Rapture and the coming of our Lord and Savior.”
Well, as an atheist and former UU I can offer one data point on UUism for whatever little that’s worth. I stopped attending becauae I felt increasingly uncomfortable with the growing emphasis on God-talk (including very silly manifestations like “UU paganism”, adhered to by the kind of people who have read a couple of stupid mass-market books on “the mother goddess” or some such), and the corresponding, and in the case of some of the prominent leaders of the denomination like Forrester Church, quite open growth in hostility or at best studied indifference to humanism- which historically had been a very important strand in the UU movement and of course the one that originally attracted me.
If there is a god and he’s so great then why’s he going to let armageddon or the rapture or whatever consume us all. His son was killed so we could all be saved or so they say, seems to me that god owes me one jesus.
Some quick answers:
a) it is wrong to be excited at death and destruction in the middle east, if the cause is the delusion that it signifies the coming of paradise. But that should be obvious
b) Revelations is 2000 years overdue. Give it up already!
c) UUs are pretty nice people. Sadly I mentally transpose them with the Unification church. Big mistake!
d) 200-line comments are ignored. Get your own blog! I don’t have the attention span!
e) The snarky posts by liberals “waiting for the rapture” are not serious. In the crowd I run with, it tends to go “I wish the rapture would hurry up and appear – the annoying people would go away and we’d get all their stuff!”
I read the google cache of the page – it actually wasn’t nearly as bad as I thought it would be, based on all the comments here. A majority of them were expressions of concern for the others that wouldn’t be saved, slightly under half (it seemed) were excitment, and most of those were excitement only about the Jesus part, not about the world destruction part. That’s what makes it so difficult to combat – they’re just CARING about all of us, see? And honestly, most of them do. They’re convinced that this is going to happen, and they’ll push everyone else around as much as possible to get everybody to Jesus whether we want them to or not.
Sure, but liberal snark is always going to be used as cannon fodder for pot-shot artists who either lack the ability to detect snark, or simply ignore it.
Carlie, I think you’re right that most of them are just excited for the Jesus part. I don’t see any that actually are gleeful for the massive torment that’s supposed to come. However, by my count, only five express any kind of sadness or concern (and that’s counting the tearful smiley in one post), out of 21 total posts. So… 1/4 by my count.
I never have been good with statistics. I probably have a personal bias towards a positive interpretation about those comments – I’ve lived among them long enough that I assume that concern is implicit in most of those “end times” talks, since it usually is coupled.
(just call me “Dances with Baptists” – no, wait, Baptists can’t dance)
Oh, I didn’t mean to nit-pick, I certainly wouldn’t have just remembered that without going back to look. In fact, I thought it was higher than just those 5 before I went back to re-read. I just think it’s interesting that apparently both of us came away with more of an impression that they were all distraught and sorrowful than was actually expressed in the thread, but on a second look, most were just extremely impatient to get off this planet.
None of them seem to have that “Blue-flag in the Bog” sentiment toward the earth (any other Millay fans?), but I guess it would be blasphemous somehow to regret god’s plan.
> Not at all, xtians who believe in the non-existent jesus are nutcases as exactly any adult who believes in the easter bunny
Even though I’m a lifelong atheist, statements like this make me uncomfortable.
But I’ve wondered: what *do* members of various religions think about other believers these days? What does an American Christian think about a Muslim, or Hindu, or Wiccan? What does the Wiccan think about the Christian? What does the Hindu or Buddhist think? Etc. I’m not trying to imply an answer — I don’t know what the average (in whatever sense) would be. (I am confident you could find individuals who viewed believers in other religions as ignorant or deluded.)
Carlie, Kmarrisa, or anyone–
In looking at that thread, or any thread, have you seen a single person saying they *don’t* want this to happen?
That since they have salvation they’re willing to wait, and willing to tell God to wait? If Avraham could try to bargain with God, shouldn’t they?
That they don’t want nirvana as long as a single creature remains unenlightened?
It’s as if they worry that any dislike of these events puts them on the side of the antichrist, because only the antichrist will bring peace to the middle east.
Or perhaps they’re worried about whether or not they’ll really going to go to heaven. So since right now they’re feeling their faith in fine fettle, God should pick them now before anything goes wrong with their own faith.
I see they have a “Welcome, unbelievers” sign up now. And there, too, all they do is tell you that you should try to escape the coming horrors. Nothing about trying to stop the coming horrors, even if just by following the example of Avraham.
Oh, definitely not. In fact, I think most would say it was ungodly to actively hope that the Rapture wasn’t coming. That’s part of what I found so interesting and frightening when I posted above. Out of the 21 comments on the thread, not a single one actively didn’t want the rapture to happen, and only 5 of the 21 expressed any sorrow for the suffering of others. The fact that the Rapture is “god’s will” means that it’s even somewhat controversial on that site to be sorry for the heathens that will suffer…That is, there’s discussion (not as much on this thread as on another that I found) as to whether or not it’s even RIGHT to feel apprehensive about the massive suffering they think will come.
I just think it’s interesting that despite this, both Carly and I apparently came away from reading it the first time with a greater impression of concern for others than was actually expressed. I wonder why that is.
To explain a bit better, this is from the other thread I was talking about:
“Someone has probably already mentioned this, but…
Is it wrong to feel excited about all that is going on in the Middle East
right now?
I am torn between wanting all hell to break loose over there, because
it means we are closer to going home, and guilt because of these feelings.
I feel guilty and messed-up, because what Christian would wish war and
fighting, which results in many people being hurt and killed? I probably
would feel much different, if it were affecting me personally on my own turf.
Anyone else feel the same way I do?”
To which the first response posted was,
“I feel excited that everything is going according to God’s will.”
More people do express regret for the suffering of others on that thread (link below), but letting those feelings get in the way of wanting the rapture equates interfering with God’s will to these people.
It’s interesting that some of them are wrestling with their own consciences vs. the horribly bloody “god’s plan” of the rapture, and yet they consider their conscience to be god-given (that’s why atheists don’t have one). Seems strange that someone who believes that god is the source of all good wouldn’t be more troubled stuff like this. I suppose this is where faith comes in: you ignore the stuff that doesn’t make sense, like why a “god of love” would choose to kill the world.
Link: http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=265523
It may have to do with the angle of the original comment. Many of them are happy about the end result, but don’t mention the bloody bits between. It doesn’t necessarily follow. Sort of analogous to the following: “I can’t wait to get my Ph.D.!” “Oh, then you’re saying that you’re really looking forward to oral exams and your defense?” Or: “I can’t wait to have my baby!” “So you think labor will be fun?” Just because one wants the end result doesn’t mean that they’re great with everything that happens to get there. That said,
“More people do express regret for the suffering of others on that thread (link below), but letting those feelings get in the way of wanting the rapture equates interfering with God’s will to these people.”
That’s the part that’s really scary, when someone thinks they should actively suppress humane feelings because he or she thinks that God wants to punish someone, so they have no right or responsibility to interfere. Some morality.
yeah, but what i want to know is if The Rapture will be on Webcam and, if so, what the URL is?
oh, and will it be blogged?
yeah, but what i want to know is if The Rapture will be on Webcam and, if so, what the URL is?
You’ll have to browse through the Bible in order to find that out for sure. Just look through it and see if there are any symbols that allegory represent webcams. And if you find one, then look for other symbols that allegorically represent the URL. Or you could try this trick from Ezekiel 4:
Either way, you’ve got a lot of work ahead of you. Good luck!
I wish we had smiley emoticons like they have at R.R. [picture frowning emoticon here]. Emoticon-speak is so much simpler.
Wouldn’t it be neat to translate the Bible into smiley emoticon? Hmmm, maybe I have found my purpose in life…. [thumbs-up smiley emoticon]. It’s my idea, no stealing! I thought of it first! [angry, snarling emoticon].
Thought this was apropos:
Are you ready
For that great atomic power?
Will you rise and meet your savior in the air?
Will you shout or will you cry
When the fire rains from on high?
Are you ready
For that great atomic power?
Do you fear this man’s invention
That they call atomic power?
Are we all in great confusion,
Do we know the time or hour
When a terrible explosion
May rain down upon our land
Leaving horrible destruction
Blotting out the works of man?
CHORUS:
Are you, are you ready
For that great atomic power?
Will you rise and meet your savior in the air?
Will you shout or will you cry
when the fire rains from on high?
Are you ready for that great atomic power?
There is one way to escape
And be prepared to meet the lord
When the mushroom of destruction falls
There is a shielding sword
He will surely stand beside you
And you’ll never taste of death
For your soul will fly to heaven
And eternal peace and rest
Repeat Chorus
Thanks to the Louvin Brothers, Uncle Tupelo, and Southern Culture On The Skids.
Wouldn’t it be neat to translate the Bible into smiley emoticon?
nawww, can’t: i already asked our rabbi how long it would be before b’nei mitzvah would be asking to rap their Torah portions. how do you rap a series of smileys?
incidently, he frowned and murmured, “Hopefully longer than it seems it will be”.
incidently, how come the poor Grable test always gets to be the poster child for nuclear detonations? why not Charlie, which i particularly like, or maybe Priscilla, or Teapot Apple 2, or even Mike, Romeo, or Apache?
oops, my Grable shot is here. forgot to include the link.
There was an article a couple of years ago, I think in The Onion, reporting that the Rapture had come and gone, and only two people were taken. These people were interviewed, and both said they were very surprised.
And these nitwits think they’re different from and better than suicide bombers. Ha.
One question.
How many, or what proportion of the USA’s population “think” (if that’s the word) like this?
And what proportion do they fill in the religious right and the errr… “GOP”?
Seriously insane – they should all be locked up, and soonest.
I read some of the theads at RR, and one was talking about the fact that Israel has neutron bombs that radiate an area for 6 hour, kill all the living things, then the area becomes safe for troops to move in. Is this in any way, shape ,or form, true? Or is this as reliant as a Onion article? Please someone with physics know-how respond. Meanwhile, I’ll hide in the basement.
yeah, but what i want to know is if The Rapture will be on Webcam and, if so, what the URL is?
Well, actually…
http://www.olivetree.org/What_happened_to_Messiahcam.htm
When I wrote this a bit over a month ago, I thought I was exaggerating. I should’ve known better.
hehe… jesusvisions
http://www.jesusvisions.org/nightmares.shtml
sleepyinsaudi:
Neutron bombs do exist; I believe the technical term for them is ER/RB (Enhanced Radiation/Reduced Blast). Most people don’t have a very good handle on their effects, though. There’s this myth that’s built up around them as being ‘landlord bombs’, where they can be dropped in an area to kill off the population but leave structures and vehicles intact, and that’s not quite true. In a tactical sense, they were intended mainly for use as anti-armour weapons, since it’s generally much easier to kill tanks with radiation than with heat or blast. See here for more detailed information about their effects.
As for Israel, I think it’s assumed that they *don’t* have any neutron bombs, since A) it’s difficult to develop them without a significant testing program, and B) it takes large quantities of tritium to build and maintain them, which would put a sizeable dent in Israel’s plutonium production.
And ekzept:
What, no love for Dominic Yeso?
According to olivetree.org: “Quite simply, the breathtaking view our camera offered to the world has been obliterated by illegal housing construction on the Mount of Olives.”
Couldn’t the Messiah just jump over all those houses if he wanted to? I don’t see what the problem is.
Bernarda
“Not at all, xtians who believe in the non-existent jesus are nutcases as exactly any adult who believes in the easter bunny.
It is not prejudiced or bigoted; it is a fact. Just since when has the truth become prejudiced and bigoted?”
So you have a corner on the truth. Must be nice being omniscient. I wish I could say I knew everything, too.
Kathryn in CA
“In looking at that thread, or any thread, have you seen a single person saying they *don’t* want this to happen?
That since they have salvation they’re willing to wait, and willing to tell God to wait? If Avraham could try to bargain with God, shouldn’t they?
That they don’t want nirvana as long as a single creature remains unenlightened?”
Well, although it wasn’t on a blog, the pastor of the church I attended this morning (a very large conservative church in a very conservative part of the country) pretty much expressed these exact sentiments above. Not all Christians are hoping for Jesus to hurry up and get here.
Rapture Ready. I’m addicted now.
From the Women’s Corner thread (sorry ladies, I peeked):
Hi ladies-
We belong to a pretty small independent Baptist church. There’s two sides with seven rows of pews so it’s not a very large sanctuary. There are these two women that sit behind us that talk during the singing, the announcements, and sometimes into the beginning of prayers. The one lady is the deacon’s wife and is in her seventies. The other one is in her 60s and she also rocks herself during the preaching. I don’t want to cause a stink. We’ve only been there a little over a year. Do I say something to the pastor or do we just move to the other side of the sanctuary?
One reason I don’t want to move is that I see better with my left eye and I would have to be turned somewhat to see the pastor. It’s not a big deal and I would be fine. It’s one of the reasons and we don’t want to make it obvious to the women why we moved.
Response:
just turn and look at them as if you don’t want to miss anything what they have to say. [grinning smiley emoticon]
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?s=d0c37e1867b9a6709bb6b464a8593709&t=265684
If you think really hard, I believe you can come up with the difference between claiming that you know one true thing, and claiming that you know *all* truths and are omniscient. (But I don’t believe that with greater certainty than is justified by the evidence: the vast majority of blog commenters are human, and the vast majority of humans have such a capacity.)
If you think really, *really* hard, you might know a couple of true things yourself. Hoepfully, you don’t think that this qualifies you as omniscient.
Oh yeah, before I forget: the people discussed in the OP are DEMENTED FUCKWITS. They really are, so what’s wrong with saying so?
Funny postscript: right after I posted the above, MC Hawking’s “What We Need More Of Is Science” came up in my music player.
Anyone who thinks that PZ is being uncivil should listen to the Hawkman tell it like it is…
This is, of course, a complete coincidence. Fnord.
Mechanophile, sorry, missed that one. that Dominic Yeso is indeed pretty.
That’s the part that’s really scary, when someone thinks they should actively suppress humane feelings because he or she thinks that God wants to punish someone, so they have no right or responsibility to interfere. Some morality.
Posted by: Carlie | July 15, 2006 08:12 PM
***************************************
Milgram’s Obedience to Authority Experiment comes to mind….
http://www.new-life.net/milgram.htm
Not much more to add to this other than this is an attitude I am familiar with. I had the “church people” in where I work last night. As they scarfed down their food and drink, the conversation was on what was happening in Israel, yada yada yada…
(No demented fuckwits out of my mouth)
Then a table of “normals” came in- younger people early twenties, expecting a baby and bro and girlfriend.
We were outside on a break and the two young guys come out. They start talking about the church people. Then Israel. I am talking about them talking about the Rapture. I all of a sudden got it from the one guy who tells me straight faced, while his brother (who is a regular) is telling him to shut up, that the rapture is imminent and this is good. Again, no demented fuckwits coming out of my mouth- only a mild are you kidding? YOU believe this stuff too? What church do you go to?? (the customer is always right you know.) So I leave. And I go and clean stuff so that I do not have to talk to one more crazy person, because if I did I just don’t know what I would say.
This is stunning to me- stunning. I am so absolutely surrounded, where I live, by radical right wing fundies dressed in fancy clothes, and blue jeans.
Anyways………… go to the link and see why people do what they do. I am not much for psychology, but it is an interesting thing to think about, and it does explain some of the cruelty we see in the world to a small extent, maybe.
i give up, how do you do ‘the quote thing’ on this site? god damn it, er, i mean, science damn it. maybe that should be government damn it. whatever.
I thought some of you might be interested in my post on Rapture Ready, which includes some more quotes and a link to the Google cache version of the original thread, which disappeared.
Looking at the Bright Side of World War III
http://jonswift.blogspot.com/2006/07/looking-at-bright-side-of-world-war.html
I love the dishonesty of superstitious people like squeaky,
“So you have a corner on the truth. Must be nice being omniscient. I wish I could say I knew everything, too.”
But squeaky generalizes a bit too much. I spoke of one thing, the idiocy of believing in the non-existent easter bunny jesus. That is hardly a claim of of omniscience.
No matter, it is typical of religious wingnuts to misrepresent, mislead, and even lie about what others say.
One thing that seems to be true is that squeaky’s knowledge approaches absolute zero.