On December 6, 1989, a misogynist murderer called Marc Lépine walked into École Polytechnique in Montreal, Canada and shot 28 women, killing 14 of them. He hated women. He separated the men from the women and before opening fire on the classroom of female engineering students he screamed, “I hate feminists.”
Status of Women Canada is a federal government organization that promotes equality for women and their full participation in the economic, social and democratic life of Canada. It says:
December 6 is the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women in Canada. Established in 1991 by the Parliament of Canada, this day marks the anniversary of the murders in 1989 of 14 young women at l’École Polytechnique de Montréal. They died because they were women.
As well as commemorating the 14 young women whose lives ended in an act of gender-based violence that shocked the nation, December 6 represents an opportunity for Canadians to reflect on the phenomenon of violence against women in our society. It is also an opportunity to consider the women and girls for whom violence is a daily reality, and to remember those who have died as a result of gender-based violence. And finally, it is a day on which communities can consider concrete actions to eliminate all forms of violence against women and girls.
Twenty three years ago a woman-hater killed 14 women and injured 10 other women in Canada.
And in many parts of the world a large number of woman-haters still harass , exploit, torture, rape and kill hundreds of women everyday. Women get abused physically, mentally, emotionally everyday. Misogyny is the reality we still face everyday. Today’s Marc Lépines do not kill themselves after killing women. They are not afraid of anything. They organize themselves to spread lies against women. They are Men’s Rights Activists, religionists, traditionalists. Today’s women-haters get sympathy, solidarity and support from society. Today’s Marc Lépines do not shoot women like 89’s Marc Lépine, but they indoctrinate men and women to make women-hating patriarchal system much stronger than before. Today’s Marc Lépines are much bigger haters, they are more influential, more powerful and more dangerous than Canada’s lone Marc Lépine.
Every day should be the day to eliminate all forms of violence against women. Violence against women will never end if we all do not want to end it.
Twenty three years ago a woman-hater killed 14 women and injured 14 women in Canada
Point of fact: Jackass murdered fourteen women and wounded ten women and four men…
Not disputing your characterization of the bastard nutjob described above; and while I’d like to say that the men injured were injured trying to help the targeted victims, by and large the behavior of the men during the massacre brought no credit to our gender (altogether too much meek compliance in abandoning their fellow students).
Thanks. I stand corrected.
So you change the article from 14 women injured to…10 women injured. Not and 4 men injured? By this logic and selective presentations of the facts, every killing can be rewritten to be hatred against women. 3000 dead in WTC? No, 1500 women in an act of woman-hate.
You left one hateful religion for another, Taslima.
Yes, the article was about ‘women’, so I talked about women. The article was about women because the killer did not come to kill people or men and women, he came to kill only ‘women’, not men. He shot women, not men. He said he hated women. He did not say he hated men. Women were killed and injured. Men were accidentally injured. It was not the killer’s intention to hurt men. My article was not about accidents, it was about intentions.
But four men attempted to help the women and were shot for their efforts. Why don’t you make note of that?
It is wonderful that men tried to protect the women,
BUT
Marc Lepine still killed women b/c he hated women.
Is that clear enough for you to understand?
Or should we make this entire thing about the men who got injured?
Feminism Is a Hate Group
When some of the most prominent feminists and famous women make openly hateful anti-male statements, and the mainstream feminist organizations say and do nothing to distance themselves from such public statements, then it’s clear that the hatred of men has an accepted place in mainstream feminism.
Does this seem like a harsh assessment of feminism? Perhaps.
Is it true? Absolutely.
One of the main problems with “feminism” is that it exploits the legitimate claims of equal rights as a cloak to usher in its divisive, hateful and neurotic interests. Interests that are plainly anti-male and not at all about equal rights.
For example, here are some quotes from famous feminists.
“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor
“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” -– Valerie Solanas
“I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” — Andrea Dworkin
“Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” — Susan Brownmiller
“The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men.” — Sharon Stone
“In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.” — Catherine MacKinnon
“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart
“Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience.” – Catherine Comins
“All men are rapists and that’s all they are” — Marilyn French
“Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release.” — Germaine Greer.
The quotations above are from Kelly Mac’s blog. Kelly is ‘a woman against feminism’ because of its anti-male agenda. You can read more of Kelly Mac’s blog at http://awomanagainstfeminism.blogspot.com/
Kelly sums it up nicely:
“If you’re going to say feminism is not a man-hating movement, I’m going to have to insist that you provide links either to sites showing feminists condemning the statements listed above, or feminists telling women to respect men as men.”
at womengainstmen.com
Thanks for mansplaining that, Lee. You bring shame to our gender.
I see that you are not aware of the hashtag #Womenagainstfeminism You are the one bringing shame to your gender.
ok banget
Women globally needs to get together and united fight for women rights in our patriarchy society of male control…we need to stop abuse…..the in humane attacks against our female gender,,,,
all mens are evil… AMEN… right ?
They are Men’s Rights Activists, religionists, traditionalists.
I am so sorry to read this.
Lepine has nothing to do with Mens Rights Activists.
Or should we smear feminism with Valerie Solanas and the Michigan Women’s Festival? Are women that mutilate men’s genitals and commit other acts of domestic violence against men including murder representative of feminism? Are all the feminists and academics that attacked the Duke Lacrosse Team all representative of Feminist hatred? Or the same feminists that attacked the “Hofstra Rape”?
Taslima, I invite you to spend a month reading Robert Franklin at Fathers & Families, reading Harlan Pierce and his crew at Community of the Wrongly Accused, and reading Paul Elam and his writers at A Voice For Men, and reading or lurking at Reddit’s mensrights groups. And you can also spend some time reading the archives at glennsacks.com. Read Warren Farrell.
But I ask you read and participate in these communities first hand, and not just repeat things you have heard on the web, especially for inaccurate sources that have an enormous conflict of interest and grudge, or who view MRAs as somehow competition with Feminism, or an enemy of Feminism.
Along the way read what Christina Hoff Sommers writes for the AEI, or what Wendy McElroy writes, or Wendy Kaminer, Camille Paglia, Daphne Patai, Noretta Koertge, Phyllis Chesler, Erin Pizzey, Barbara Kay, or so many other women, many academics, many with Ph.Ds have written about contemporary feminism. These are not women that hate women, and these are all women that support mens rights.
I tell Taslima, if you read and participated honestly in these communities for a month, you would never never ever associate Lepine with MRAs.
You would have a very different view of Mens Rights, and I guarantee you would have a much different and more educated view of Feminism itself.
Please read the primary sources, participate in the communities, and then critique mens rights activism.
I wish you the best, but I deplore this post of yours.
http://marclepine.blogspot.ca/
sure looks like the MRA’s love this guy, consider him a saint, a folk hero, even 😛
Some dumbass puts up a web page, and that means an entire group of people agree and associate with that web page.
The web page hasn’t been updated in over three years. The web page never mentions mens rights. The web page has no endorsements from any of the mens rights groups.
But somehow to you, that means MRAs love this guy, consider him a saint, a folk hero, even/.
Yes bobo, you are a clown, and certainly not a free thinking member of the reality based world.
ok, so you think he was wrong to murder the women…
but certainly, he was justified in hating them enough to murder them, right?
Some people don’t get Sarcasm.
Stupid comment.
Of course Lepine didn’t have anything to do with “men’s rights activists”. This happened in 1989, when the Internet Society of Crybabies With False Persecution Complexes (otherwise known as the “Men’s Rights Movement”) didn’t exist.
But, for the record – people who call themselves “mens rights activists” do frequently advocate or approve the use of force against women, and yes, there are “mra”s who praise Lepine. There are also “mra”s who defend George Sodini.
And we all already know who those MRM authors are, so don’t think that you’re educating anyone.
This is an unfortunate and uninformed commentary
Why does the matriarchy seek to oppress men, Stein?
Well, how could I know, my idea is that feminism is not fueled by hate or an intention to opress but by wild and irreflective institutionalization of feminine instincts: automatic in group bias and risk aversion.
Aw. Good thing men are not prey to in group bias and risk aversion.
Feminine instincts = the death of mankind
Yeah, as a matter of fact men show very low in group bias and risk aversion compared to woman. This means they are not going to protect another man just because he is a man, no matter what. Check it out:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15491274
http://www.pnas.org/content/106/36/15268.short
That is why feminism is so focused on protecting women as a group even when they already enjoy from much lower victimhood and higher protection than men or children.
Just more proof that men are the superior gender!
“Today’s Marc Lépines do not kill themselves after killing women. They are not afraid of anything. They organize themselves to spread lies against women. They are Men’s Rights Activists… ”
How is the notion that men have rights equivalent to killing women? I recall the accusation of hating men being thrown at early feminist activists. Now the tables are turned and women like you become what you despised: Privileged and determined to keep it that way.
Sorry to rain on your pity party, but nobody is trying to take away “men’s rights”. Oh, and by the way, people still accuse feminists of being “man-haters” constantly – and many of those people are so-called “men’s rights activists”.
Ps – I seriously doubt that you “recall” anything about “early feminist activists”, seeing as how they existed long before you were born. I guess you’re not an expert on the women’s rights movement, after all. Oh well.
I find the leap of logic required to jump from a mass murderer to modern day men’s rights organizations a difficult one to make. Frankly, I find it a little insulting, both to my intelligence, and personally as someone who happened to be born with a penis. As if somehow because I’m male I’m automatically suspect of committing some mass murder?
My understanding is this guy had some screws loose to begin with. The fact that he chose to take his hate out on women is unfortunate, but it could have just as easily been any other group that ended up being the target of his violence. Glad to know that simply by birth I’m capable of the same type of senseless violence and hatred. Maybe I should turn myself into the police. I mean, I haven’t done anything yet – but jeeze, i’m a man, so any day now -right?
Judge people by the merits of who they are as a person, not their gender, not a group they identify with. Wasn’t that the original goal of the whole feminist movement in the first place? Isn’t that what equality is supposed to be about?
“The fact that he chose to take his hate out on women is unfortunate, but it could have just as easily been any other group that ended up being the target of his violence.”
I’m just curious – can you provide an example of a disgruntled or ill man singling out other men for assault? Nope.
Women are often the targets of male rage, and yeah, misogyny actually is the reason for that. There are recent examples of this in the U.S.
I mean, do you think that he randomly decided to target women? Do you think he spun a wheel with different minority groups listed on it, and just happened to land on “women”. Idiot.
Dahmer only killed men. Can you provide an example of a disgruntled or ill woman singling out other women for assault? Eileen Wournos singled out men (and admitted later that it was NOT self-defense).
Laura Sorenson singled out men:
http://gigharbor.patch.com/articles/woman-who-opened-fire-at-peninsula-market-charged-for-attempted-murder
Yes, and how many hundreds of female serial killers rape and kill male prostitutes, and dump their body by the side of the road?
How many hundreds of female pedophiles kidnap little boys and rape and abuse them?
How many nuns rape and abuse altar boys?
hm?
waiting!
You’ve gone strawman now since the original intent of this article was apparently to show how much men hate women. So how did we come to discussing the raping and killing of boys? Does this show that men hate men? Doesn’t that hurt your argument of how victimized females are when you point out accurately that males are victims of violence far more than females are?
It’s no secret that men are more violent than women. It is also no secret that women are sexually attracted to violent men.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/jan/13/gender.uk
http://www.articlesbase.com/relationships-articles/what-makes-some-women-be-attracted-by-violent-men-283162.html
“Usually, it is said that women are tender and sensitive which however is an exception to the rule that a woman is unsentimental, course, savage and longing for a rough love and pleasure. They like watching executions, and calmly crunch chocolate bonbons during it. Thousands of women offer their love to assassins, boxers, winners of bullfights, actors, officers and similarly. Already Juvenalis in the first century complained about the women who contempted their noble men and seeked course and rude gladiators. Woman will rather love a strong and energic man than a too-soft, too kind man.” – Dr. Josef Velenovsky
Good, I suggest you read up on the Yanomami, a warlike indigenous peoples who live in South America.
Hundreds of female serial killers. Over 800 such “rare” creatures are listed on “Index: Female Serial Killers” (easy to find on google. Also look at “Female Serial Killers: Master List” (with entries on Sadism, Ogresses, and “Women who like to murder women”). You will find plenty of child torturers, but you will mostly find female serial killers who target innocent ordinary babies, girls, boys, women and men, not “male prostitutes.” You will find a large number of women who marry, have sex with men they have decided beforehand to murder. Also, on a non-serial note, you might find this of interest: “Acid Queens: Women Who Throw Acid.” — There is beginning to be interest online in independent researchers and scholars learning about the politically unfashionable criminology that has been forgotten due to its being largely ignored by chivalrous or censorious criminologists and historians.
Violence against women day where 14 women died? You gotta be kidding me. How about the 100s or thousands of men that die in the wars they have been fighting to protect women since the dawn of time. 14 die by 1 crazy lunatic and women get a national day for women? Wow.
Anyhow it really continues to amaze me how women like you (and many men, society in general really) talk about violence like it is 100% men initiated and 0% women initiated. Our governments are even passing laws and days and regulations regarding violence against women somehow pretending that women simply are not capable of violence and in fact never commit it. It’s completely mind blowing insane.
My mother was (is) an alcoholic and used to punch and swing at me all the time growing up. That sure as hell is violence, right?
How about my borderline ex girlfriend who used to throw objects at me when I wasn’t looking. I’d occasionally have the pleasure of waking up to a knife to my face. As I was moving out the bitch made me bleed in various places. Maybe I did that to myself?
I’m a full time single dad raising a little girl by the way. I’ve had her since she was 2 all alone and she’s 10 now. She hasn’t seen violence in 8 years dating back to the former nightmare I just described who is her mother. Deadbeat mother at that.
When I first left her mother, my daughter hit me all the time. By the time she turned 4 all of that was a long gone memory. She wouldn’t even know how to hit or be violent now at her age of 10. Al violent behaviors she was mimicking from her mother are long gone she doesn’t even remember them.
So heres my Question, does my daughter get to celebrate today or is she disqualified due to the unthinkable: a woman being violent! (Imagine that, vooodoooo crazy I know. But it’s true. It’s quite common in fact!)
Really? Every war that has been fought has been allllllllll about protecting the women, right? Prove it.
He never said they only protected women, but they did protect women.
Proof? Look up the white feather brigade in Britain. Women fighting for the right to vote put their actions on hold when World War I broke out. Why did they do this? To focus on shaming men who did not want to go to war, to go to war. They shamed men into dying for them and their country so they could then continue to fight against the “oppression” that they had to put up with.
Women not allowed to vote? Oppression. Men sent to fight and die? Literally encouraged by feminists.
Um no, it was about defending their home against invaders. OR it was about them being the aggressor and trying to expand their territory. I was speaking more of the former.
But regardless to just disregard the millions of men that have died when war is waged and the women sitting at home very much alive is very common thing to ignore by radical feminists. Hilary Clinton even was quoted as saying how hard it is to be a woman and have her husband and sons killed in war and how tough that is to lose the men in your life. Uh, how about the people (men) who fucking DIED!? Hello!
Hey, let’s not forget about the millions of women raped in wartime!
Hear of the ‘rape of Berlin’? How about the women raped by US soldiers in Japan. Women still being raped today by US soldiers.
How about all the women who fought behind the scenes – the french resistance, the female Russian snipers. How about the women who helped to win the US war of Indepence!
No, they don’t count!
Cuz bitches ain’t shit, right?
Oh, and lets not forget the millions of women who have died throughout history in *childbirth*.
That is one sacrifice men have NOT had to make. Even today, milions of women die per year in childbirth, worldwide. Not every man is forced to go to war, but most women, throughout history, have been sold off to husbands who get them pregnant and keep them pregnant. And with every pregnancy there is a high chance of maiming and death.
“Pregnancy is a privilege, and I feel lucky that I get to do it. It’s kind of sad that men don’t.” – Jewel Kilcher
Pregnancy is risk, not a sacrifice. Women find fulfillment in the experience of childbirth and often trick men into getting them pregnant. This is why feminist, Betty Friedan, led a chant of “no male birth control pill” during a conference on the subject. Women don’t want men to be able to prevent them from getting pregnant.
Also, childbirth deaths fall under the category of natural causes. We are talking about deaths caused by social patterns. Men die from violence/war, suicide, risky behavior and workplace injuries at a far greater rate than women. Men also die from natural causes more than women. No one says that women don’t die from these things and that their deaths don’t count. We are talking about magnitude.
Boys are molested commonly and many times by women. Why don’t you emphasize them? Do they not count? Is it because men ain’t shit? See how hypocritical you are?
well then, she must be speaking for all women?
I wonder though, why have women fought so hard for contraception and abortion?
After all, the benefits are enormous!
You actually shoot yourself in the foot. The regular uses of abortion and contraception by women indicates that they feel no obligation to bear children. Thus, when women become and remain pregnant, they do so strictly because they desire to do so. Thus, it is not a sacrifice.
Yes, of course, and this is, like your previous example, is true for all women, across all history, and across all cultulres, for all time!
And when women die from pregnancy, well, it’s always their choice, right?
And while you are at it, I would like you to tell me about:
1) all the women in the USA who cannot afford abortions or contraception
2) all of the anti-contraception, ant-abortion bills passed by repbulicans
And while you are at it, please prove that when a woman gets pregnant its always either b/c she 1) chose to 2) coerced a man into getting her pregnant so she can trap him and take all his money
You seem to be assuming that women *should* feel an obligation to bear children…. why?
The regular opting out of military service by men indicates that they feel no obligation to protect their country. Thus, when men enter and remain in the military, they do so strictly because they desire to do so. Thus, it is not a sacrifice.
There I just changed a few word for you how does that sound?
The sacrifice discussed is in war and armed combat, not military service. The two are linked in that men in the military are obligated to fight in combat if required and are therefore available to be sacrificed for the sake of others. Most men join the military for the benefits and hope to never be placed in harms way. That is why you occassionally have servicemen who resist being deployed to combat zones (and seemingly a disproportionate number of female servicemembers resist deployment even though they will not be directly placed in combat). The thousands of men who were drafted were obligated to fight when called simply because they were males. Even in the U.S. today, men are legally required to register for the selective service so that can easily be called upon during a draft. Yes, men are sacrificed for the benefit of others.
Pregnancy is a natural biological phenomenom that the vast majority of women experience at some point in life. In modern western nations, women are not obligated to give birth. Most do because most want to be mothers and most want to experience a life growing inside of them. Female mammals of practically all species similarly experience live births. That is not sacrifice. That is nature. War is not natural. That is why men who have experienced it suffer from post traumatic stress syndrome. They leave war mentally scarred and often suicidal. War is a sacrifice. Pregnancy is natural even that can, on rare instances, become complicated.
Dee, hopefully you are pushing to have the rules of the draft changed, so that women can fight in the trenches alongside men!
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1998285,00.html
Yup wars are just for us humans no animals ever go to war. Ant colonies never fight at all nope not all at.
The only difference between us and animals is in tools we use. I don`t have mandibles longer then my head and ant`s don`t have laser guided munitions.
And I`m sorry as a Canadian with one of the most gender integrated armies in the world don`t give me your men are sacrificed crap. Why were men sent to fight by men who ran the countries and started the wars and planned the draft? Cause they didn’t think women could do it and they were wrong. The reason men are drafted are all cultural and sexist. Women for much of history were chattel with few rights and seen as far too weak to be given a gun and told to fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8vFFM_k1FI
Drivers ants and termites for all intents and purposes at war.
There is a Nat Geo documentary on the subject as well, “insect wars”
And don’t forget bees and wasps!
Maybe the following explains it well enough.
http://discovermagazine.com/2012/jun/02-no-war-is-not-inevitable
Pregnancy is a complete biological process. The purpose of the female uterus is to carry a child. There is no debate on that. Pulling a trigger is not the purpose of a man’s finger.
And to answer your question bobo, women can be eligible for the draft as far as I’m concerned, but should also be held to the same physical standards as men (you know, equality and all).
It’s funny that you guys tend to skirt around the evidence of the tendency toward religious belief being natural.
Also, the fact that men are ultimately much more violent toward other men than they are toward women, yet women want some special protection from violence is sexist. Keeping women out of military combat is a form of protecting women from violence. Are you against that? You guys are all over the place..
Did you know that gay men are twice as likely as heterosexual women to be the victims of domestic violence. But there is no Violence Against Gay Men Act. Only women want special treatment while yelling “equality” Sounds sexist to me.
Read the following article:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/female-marine-tells-fox-friends-that-women-should-not-serve-in-combat-role-in-
military/
This is interesting below:
http://www.pandys.org/articles/lesbiandomesticviolence.html
Perhaps surprisingly, statistics have shown that lesbian people experience domestic violence at a very similar rate to that of heterosexual women (Waldner-Haygrud, 1997; AVP, 1992). It has been estimated that between 17-45% of lesbians have been the victim of at least one act of violence perpetrated by a female partner (Burke et al, 1999; Lie et al, 1991), and that 30% of lesbians have reported sexual assault / rape by another woman (Renzetti, 1992). Considering the lack of discussion that takes place regarding lesbian domestic violence and sexual assault, I find these figures staggering
So why are men portrayed as the only perps of domestic violence? Sexism is the reason. Women are more sexist than men.
And lastly, the Canadian military is widely known as a joke.
Sure never said war was inevitable just that other animals engage in what is essentially war.
I have no problem with women who want to fight for their country to do so.
I oppose conscription.
I`m in favor of improving laws and our culture on the issue of domestic violence, but too often the solution from MRA to domestic violence seems to be remove funding from women rather then try to build services and support men.
Men are portrayed as there perpetrators of domestic violence cause we still have a lot of sexist shit around women such that they are too weak and helpless always the victims never the heroes or the aggressors not in war or domestic violence.
And lastly, Fuck you.
Also stop using natural, I honestly don’t give a rat’s ass if religion was natural (where ever that come from in this discussion) cause it doesn’t matter in the slightest it’s harmful. *hands Dee a big steaming glass or ecoli, and hookworms * The idea that something being natural is good or proper is stupid. And you know what else is a biological process, cancer and heart attacks.
LOL at the emo.
Read and learn:
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/mann-text/1
http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/articles/2012/04/12/religion-makes-people-happierbut-why
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1066784/Religious-people-helpful-honest-generous-say-scientists.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2192357/Godliness-key-healthiness-Religion-boosts-mental-health-research-says.html
Religiophobic bigots as well as misandrists love to pull notions out of their rear ends that are not supported by actual research.
Dee, if you want to be taken seriously, don’t post information from the Daily Mail
It is a tabloid rag, lol
Try again 🙂
Oh what do you know something can be helpful in some ways and harmful in others? Yes religion is helpful in that it brings people together and they watch out for each other. But its also very destructive with unnecessary surgeries, harmful faith based traditions, faith based bigotries, tithe of the poor, prayers and faith based medicine instead of actual help, oppression of women and men, supporting slavery and genocide, fighting against human rights, promoting a culture where protecting the religions image is more important then protecting the followers. But hey at least grandma gets to have her friends at the church to keep her company and look out for her right?
Of course an overwhelmgly vast amount of genocide has been committed for secular reasons and by secular institutions (communism, nazis, etc.).
Neo-nazis worldwide tend to be anti-religion.
In Canada and U.S., infant boys are genital mutilated predominantly for secular reasons.
The prevalence of faith based healing is so low that it is not even viewed as an issue. Funny that most who practice it are women, most who tithe are women and women are more religious than men. Based on Taslima, women are stupider than men.
Anarchists are overwhelmingly atheists and arnarchy and atheisism are ideological cousins.
The atheist regime of North Korea leads the world in forced labor, forced marriage, and sex trafficking. China and Vietnam are right up there.
The Church does more for the poor than any other institution.
And I’m not saying that these things can’t happen for other reasons and religion has done good things but religion has been a big cause human misery.
You want to talk countries Norway, Denmark etc are very highly atheistic countries great standard of life.
You want to talk politics personal plitics Atheists in the atheist community are rarely anarchists and tend to favor left leaning politics and socialism with a minority of libertarians.
You want to talk bigotry anti-gay bigotry is highly religious.
You want to talk genital mutilation we have muslim countries with FGM and the long history of christian tradition that is the foundation for much of the circumcision in the Northern hemisphere and is not recomended by canadian doctors and still tends to be found more often in the more religious parts of the country (like alberta).
The prevalence for faith based healing doesn’t matter to me the harms it causes does. In the 80’s faith healer Peter popoff was raking in on the order of 4.3 million dollars a month with his faith healing ministry. He was forced down in the 80s but now he’s back on television peddling faith healing. The lobby against women’s health care, birthcontrol, abortion, and familly planning is almost all religiously based. Same sex marriage is opposed almost entirely for religious reasons.
Government programs are doing more for the poor then churches. Megachurches rake in millions preaching prosperity gospels in some of the poorest parts of the states.
I see you didn’t touch the harms of the catholic sex abuse scandal.
There’s also the continued harms to health by many of the abstinence focused sex practices supported almost entirely by religious groups.
Opposition to evolution and science teaching is almost all from religious sources.
Religion is no stranger to any of this and is a great shield to misery and superstition around the world.
Norway, Denmark etc. are racially and culturally homogenous countries with each having a population less than the size of New York City. That is the reason for their “standard of living”.
Only 13% of Christians worldwide are evangelicals, though religiophobes tend to attack all Christians as evangelicals. Most Americans who identify with the Democratic Party also identify as Christian. African Americans support the left on average of around 90%, yet are the most religious group in the U.S.
Anti-religion bigotry is, of course, highly non-religious. Non-religious countries such as China, The old Soviet Union, North Korea, etc. were/are bastians for anti-gay sentiment and legislation. Israel is a very religious country, yet is one of the most liberal when it comes to homosexual rights.
FGM is not a religious act. Nothing in the Islamic religious texts mandate it or even suggest it. It is a cultural tradition in those areas that dates back to the ancient Egypt, well before Islam was born.
The foundation for circumcision in North America is in the psychiatric field. Most circumcision done in the U.S. are done for completely secular reasons.
63% of Americans against gay marriage cited non-religious reason for opposing it.
And so evangilists and faith healers make millions. So do rock stars, rappers, comedians, actors, motivational speakers, etc. They provide on stage something that people like and are willing to pay for.
There is no significant anti-birth control lobby other than businesses not wanting to pay for birth control for employees. There is no lobby against women’s healthcare and family planning save for when these terms are cover for abortion. In the case of abortion, what is particularly religious about not wanting to destroy inocent life (as life is defined by science)?
http://www.lifenews.com/2012/02/28/confessions-of-a-pro-life-atheist-why-i-fight-abortion/
“In fact, my first job in Chicago was working with Catholic parishes in poor neighborhoods, and my salary was funded by a grant from an arm of the Catholic Church. And I saw that local churches often did more good for a community than a government program ever could, so I know how important the work that faith-based organizations do and how much impact they can have in their communities.” – Barack Obama
The Catholic Church sex scandal is a mirror of the higher propensity of gay males to molest children. Absent the vow of celibacy and allowing for priests to marry would remedy this situation. But the current vow creates basically a mens club that attracts gay men seeking to hide their homosexuality behind celibacy while not being conspicuous due to being unmarried. The argument you make is silly in that there is no religious doctrine promoting pedophilia, thus it is not the religion that causes boys to be molested. A bunch of future molesters end up as priests and would have molested if they had not become priests.
Please explain how promoting abstinence is unhealthy?
The most opposition to science comes from tree hugging liberals and animal rights folks. Absent anything involving the destruction of fetuses, religion has not held back scientific advancement but rather has promoted it as the Catholic Church has. Republicans are more likely to fund scientific and technilogical research. Opinions about how the Universe began or how man began tend to be inconsequential to practical usable science. No religious group opposes space exploration, medical advancement, computer technology, etc.
The folks below are not religious:
http://reason.com/archives/2001/02/28/rebels-against-the-future
http://www.purelogic.info/anti-technology.
Also, non-religious people have been shown to be more likely to practice pagan superstitions and believe in things like UFOs, Big Foot, Astrology, palm reading, etc..
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122178219865054585.html
I am guessing that Dee hasn’t seen that teen pregnancy rates are *highest* in the abstinence only states.
And that the sex abuse from the RCC, and other religions (Buddhism, Orthodox Jews) is not just homosexual, there is a lot of hetero sex abuse as well – that just doesn’t get as much attention. There was a well known case of an Irish Catholic priest in California who spent 8+ years molesting both boys and girls, and he is a free man now in Ireland, living out his retirement…
And why is there nothing in the bible against child marriage? It was the’ cultural practise’ to marry girls off at the age of 12 throughout most of history, and the church didn’t change it, they supported it. Up until fairly recently, the age of consent in many US states was as young as 10. And in fact, the church *fought* early feminists who wanted the age of consent raised so that little girls wouldnt get raped by their much older husbands.
The anti-abortion and and anti-gay lobbies are largely promoted BY religious groups. I guess Dee has not heard of Pat Robertson, or Bryan Fischer eh?
FGM was originally cultural, yes, but it is supported by religion.
And the World Trade Center, hey, that was a religious act, wasn’t it? The men who flew the planes are now in heaven with 99 virgins.
As for North Korea, the great leader is treated like a God. If the leader demands that people view him as a God, and he is treated as such, that sure looks like religion to me! Just b/c its not a religion you recognise does not make it secular.
And Dee, I am pretty sure you are atheist about all religions but Christianity, right? You don’t believe in the Aztec gods, you dont believe in Allah, or Buddah. You are *atheist* about those religions. You are atheist about every religion but your own. So if someone chooses to be believe in Xenu, they are doing exactly what you are dong. You don’t actually have any proof that your belief in an invisible sky fairy is the RIGHT belief 😛
And lets not forget the Ugandan ‘kill the gays’ bill. Entirely religiously motivated. Even influenced by American pastors and the pope thinks its wonderful!
Taslima, check this out:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-lies-feminism/marc-lepine-is-a-feminist-hero/
I suppose next you’ll claim that NOM, Focus on the Family and the Family Research Council really are devoted to supporting families.
To say that wars are fought to protect women is utter bullshit and anyone who believes that is stupid. War is fought for money and power. PERIOD.
Yeah I got news for you living in the age of the feminist…. In the past up until very recently, it was a mans DUTY to protect the women he loved. As a matter of fact that was extended to all women. Why do you think they tell us how many women and children die in military conflicts ignoring men.
Don’t you get it? You’ve lost that. It’s gone. You still see quotes about that holding on to the old days way of thinking. But now men have no passion and drive and desire to protect women anymore. It’s been indoctrined out of us over the years.
The problem with the feminists is they can’t decide if thry want to be the victims or the empowered strong willed women. Whatever it is, your men still have to fight wars and die while you sit at home and talk about how bad you have it. Sadly there are still sme men today who hold on to this old way of thinking. It’s in our blood to protect women. But at the cost of dignity? Who would want to protect the women of western culture today? Dignity is important to men, I just don’t think many understand it and have been sucked into this culture for what it’s turned into.
man’s duty lol
women were regarded as property
love was NOT part of marriage
if a man protected a woman it was b/c she was his property
did you know that up until recenlty marital rape was not a crime? that a husband could impregnate his wife as often as he wished and she didnt have a say in the matter?
how do you know? do you have a time machine?
I’m sure some felt entitled and ruthless and took it out on everyone around him, including women. Some people are assholes. It all stems from childhood.
But what I think really was mostly happening? Especially during the middle ages? Men and women worked TOGETHER. They HAD to work together because if they didn’t, their community wouldn’t surive. They spent a lot of time working during the season when they could farm and a whole lot of time having sex and doing nothing during the winter months.
And no not rape you numskull. I’m pretty sure when 30-50 people lived in a community surrounded by uneasyness and no one protecting them, that is ALL THEY HAD, was EACH OTHER. I hardly think a community of people would allow rape to be a major part of their culture. Or ownership of other people. Give me a break. There was no entitlement back then. There was no crazy feminism movement trying to destroy families and confuse women and make men out to be rapists and evil people. Spoiled whiney brats.
Back then, the average lifespan was 25. Most kids never lived to see both their parents. There was no government protecting them. They worked for what they had. They had a shirt they made themselves and it lasted 10 god damn years. I’m sure the jobs were gender oriented as that would make the most SENSE. Men and women ARE wired differently. I believe that there is overlap for sure and we’re all individuals. I for instance am very affectionate which is usually a female characteristic. I’m also not very compassionate which is typical male. I don’t like putting stufff together and hate home depot which would make me not very masculine. But I love football and I’m into web design. I also can do a french braid but I can’t tie a tie. Chalk that up to being raised by a single mom and raising a little girl myself.
So to conclude when you say “rapists” blah blah blah will you just stop. I’ve met i can count on one hand how many people (women) who have been raped my entire life. And that was when they were little kids. And that is something that makes my blood boil. No by and large men aren’t “rapists” will you just shut up your so crazy throwing that word around. Whenever i see it I just blow off whatever else the person is saying. It’s a shame its come to that but it’s just gotten so outrageously overused i can’t take it serious anymore.
cc
Selling a girl off to be married at the age of 12, or younger (was sanctioned by the church too, study your history) WITHOUT HER CONSENT = rape.
And I don’t need a time machine, there things such as historical documents.
Back then the average lifespan was 25, really? LOL
You just made everything up there, didn’t you?
Not a single historical fact, just stuff that you think sounds good to prove your point.
Man, you are funny!
Marc Lepine still killed women b/c he hated women.
Is that clear enough for you to understand?
Right. Just like Aileen Wuornos killed seven men because she hated men. And she is praised by feminists as shown below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk6wbAB2ZZU
In praise of those who fight back
Uh, did you even view the video that you posted? Eileen Wournos always asserted that she killed out of self-defense. She didn’t kill randomly (as Marc Lepine did); she killed men who threatened her with violence. Try sticking to facts.
You should try sticking with the facts. She recanted that claim and admitted to robbing and killing them in cold blood. From the link below:
For her first slaying, Wuornos flagged down video repair shop owner Richard Mallory. She robbed him and shot him to death with a .22-caliber pistol she kept in her purse. Wuornos later confessed to killing Mallory and six more middle-aged white men. Prosecutors only charged her in six deaths, as the body of the seventh man she said she killed was never found. In each murder, Wuornos followed the same pattern of flagging down men who were driving alone on or near Interstate 75, offering them sex for money, then shooting them. At first, Wuornos said that she killed men in self-defense, but she later recanted.
http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/US/wuornos805.htm
“I robbed them, and I killed them as cold as ice, and I would do it again, and I know I would kill another person because I’ve hated humans for a long time.” – Eileen Wournos
And what do you say about the case of Laura Sorenson who, this year, opened fire on men in a market because she hated men:
http://gigharbor.patch.com/articles/woman-who-opened-fire-at-peninsula-market-charged-for-attempted-murder
Obviously, Marc Lepine was abused, raped and mistreated by women his entire life, as all men are. The matriarchy seeks to sexually use and abuse men, doesn’t it?
http://www.yesican.org/stats.html
Boys are at a greater risk of serious injury and of emotional neglect than are girls.
The incidence of fatally injured girls declined slightly, while the incidence of fatally injured boys rose.
And most child abusers are women.
If only children could be raised by their fathers alone!
Women are not suited for it, women are violent sexual predators!
If only children could be raised by their fathers alone!
Women are not suited for it, women are violent sexual predators!
Of course, you are sarcastically making a statement that folks like yourself routinely and sincerely direct at men.
And it is clear that my sarcastic statement is something you spout as FACT, amirite?
No one said that children should be raised by their fathers alone nor that women are violent sexual predators!
But you and your type preach daily that men are violent sexual predators and that children don’t need men. Talk about hate.
untrue broski!
and you are the one who says that women are more violent and abusive then men
so, surely, children should be raised by men, since men are better, no?
I’m raising my daughter alone and she’s in 5th grade, on the student counsel, on the girl scouts, doing the talent show, scored advanced on her state tests, just got done reading Treasure Island and Oliver Twist, loves barbies and dresses and nails but hates brushing her hair, she loves science and astronomy, she is an artist, a visionary, and one day will pioneer something. She is compassionate, sweet, kind, thoughtful, well read, and down right interesting. She’s also autistic.
Been raising her since she was 2.
Oh and that whole time paying a child support obligation. Not GETTING it. Not just going even. PAYING it all these years to another kid alienated from me.
And we’re doing fucking great.
The only benefit of the mother disappearing versus the father is that society has females everything to be role models, care providers, and nurturers. Teachers, babysitters, aunt’s who stay in touch, grandmothers who mail the cards, the women who work the front desk of whatever business we walk into, ….ALL WOMEN. Without that one rock (me), her opinion of men would be wavering and lost forever once she found a bad one. But with me laying the foundation, she knows what to expect of men and has a very good fantastic view of men actually… AND women.
Imagine that.
I don’t teach her to “empower” her. I don’t teach her to “get married”. I don’t even care if she is a lesbian or whatever she wants to do. I just want her to succeed and be goal oriented and value hard work and responsibility. Her personality is that of a girl who will get married and have a family and let a man be a breadwinner. That’s just my impression. But all we talk about is her becoming a NASA scientist. Hell she might do both.
^wow^ – This post must’ve been red-flagged on some website for extremely dumb men.
no shit. I am in awe!
Is that what brought you here?
Why am I not surprised that, in a post meant as a memorial to the women victims of a specific act of violence, targeted against women for being women, which happens to include a conclusion about how women are still subject to varying & unacceptable degrees of violence & oppression (largely, as shown by the stats, perpetrated by men), the comments are flooded by people trying to make it all about the men.
Look, some non-trivial number of men are subject to violence & oppression by women. Indeed, in societies of hundreds of millions, there could be thousands, even millions of them. Can’t be denied or trivialized.
But it doesn’t have to be brought up again and again and again in a post about violence & oppression against women – because when it is, it almost invariably appears to go on to trivialize that violence & oprression, whatever the intention of the people who bring it up.
Well you see composer99, that’s where you are wrong.
After listening to the MRA’s on this comments thread, I have learned that,
Men die in the milliions, in wars, and noone remembers them. Apparently, Veterans Day does not actually exist. Male soldiers are not mourned, instead, feminists insist on forcing everyone to pay attention to female and child victtims of violence and war; but men, men are completely and utterly forgotten
It is all part of a massive feminist conspiracy to kill men while simulteanously presenting women as victims in order to get more power for women, or something. Oh, and death from childbirth = natural, so, it’s a nonissue. Men are the true victims of *everything*.
20 kids dead today at a school shooting
hey MRA’s, this is seriously a tragedy, as people will be talking about dead children and not men, who are the true victims of violence amirite??
Half of all children are boys you know. MRAs advocate for boys. You know, the same boys that feminists think should have rocks thrown at them. It’s funny that Elam anticipated that opportunistic feminists will try to exploit this tragedy. How sad.
Yes, Dee, you are right
Every feminist I have ever 1) spoken to 2) read about has advocated that boys ‘have rocks thrown at them’
Every.single.one!
‘throw rocks at boys’ is in fact the #1 tenet of feminism!
My, you are an observant one 😉
You certainly are hurting your credibility with this kind of diatribes and strawman hyperboles.
Why should society put more effort into the erradication of violence agasint women when men are victims of violence and murder almost 400% more than women. Are women more valuable than men? How much? 800% more valuable?
And don’t play the domestic violence card on me because on nonreciprocally violent relationships women are the initiators of violence 70% of the time:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/
Maybe it is because your natural feminine automatic in-group bias distorts your cognition:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15491274
Men are the real victims of *everything*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course men are not the victims of everything, but certainly they are victims of violence more frequently than women yet feminists hold a political crusade to achieve increasing protection from the state against a falsely perceived state of greater violence victimhood… The reason? Natural feminine risk aversion and automatic in-group bias distorts their cognition.
No, I really think that women just seek to oppress men so they can have even more power than they do now.
Wow, your views seem to be very extremist.
It is simple Stein. Women control everything, and they seek to gain more power by pretending to be victims of oppression by men.
I am pretty sure that the muslim world is entirely female controlled, and that bitches just pretend to be honour killed and genitally mutliated in order to play at being victims.
Nope, bitches should be raped and shot, only way to show women that they are second to men.
Surely a fine MRA such as yourself would agree?
You are a scary guy.
Go visit ‘a voice for men’
its the norm over there
I’m a woman and I hate feminists. I don’t condone the murder of women of course, but that’s because I don’t condone the murder of any human being, not because I’m a female. I hate feminists because they’re radical and will twist any event to benefit their own agendas.
Of course there are men who hate women, there are also women who hate men, people will always find reasons to hate other people. Women aren’t special cases. I’m ashamed of women like you who are so insecure of your gender identity that you need to prove otherwise to the world. You need to feel like the world and especially men, owe you something because you FEEL inferior.
Women are great at playing the role of the victim. Our suffering isn’t special, we were not and still are not a special breed. So you go ahead, cry some more, play the victim a bit more, while the rest of the women in the world move on with their lives.
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