It looks like the jury was well and truly angered by the way Rudy Giuliani treated the two poll workers Ruby Freeman daughter Shaye Moss in Georgia and unanimously ordered him to pay them whopping damages, well above the $48 million their lawyer suggested.
Giuliani said that he will appeal but then proceeded to absurdly claim that he could still prove his claims.
Giuliani, meanwhile, doubled down on his false claims about Freeman and Moss, saying again that he had evidence they were true.
“The absurdity of the number merely underscores the absurdity of the entire proceeding where I’ve not been able to offer one piece of evidence in defense, which I have a lot,” Giuliani said in a short press gaggle, promising to appeal the result.
“So I am quite confident when this case gets before a fair tribunal it will be reversed so quickly that it will make your head spin and the absurd number that just came in will help that, actually.”
He also continued to insist that his claims about the two women were justified. “I have no doubt that my comments were made and they were supportable and they are supportable today,” he said.
He has had plenty of opportunities to provide the evidence and prove his case and still has not done so. Even his lawyer did not bring up that defense in this trial, because Giuliani had in an earlier proceeding conceded that he had defamed the two women. While his lawyer expressed some contrition on his behalf, Giuliani seems to be living in a dream world where he thinks his lies will be believed.
Giuliani refused to turn over documents as part of the case and conceded earlier this year that he made false statements about the women. Howell found him liable of defamation, intentional infliction of emotional distress and civil conspiracy. The only question for the jury to decide was how much in damages Giuliani should pay.
Joseph Sibley, Giuliani’s attorney, conceded to jurors in his opening statement that his client had done something wrong by making false statements. But over the course of the week, he sought to distance Giuliani from the threats and harassment that resulted from the false statements. He also argued that the tens of millions of dollars they requested were not proportional to the harm they had suffered.
I really think Giuliani is delusional.
The only logic I can think of outside of providing ammo to the argument that he’s mentally incompetent is if he’s running out of money and thinks he can grift more from the MAGA crowd than he’s got now. Or that he’ll be able to keep proceedings going indefinitely, keeping the collection of the judgement from happening until he dies of old age in the middle of the process.
Based on some experience with brazen liars, I suspect he is simply backing the lie to the hilt to maintain face. The liars I’ve met seemed to think constant earnest appeals over a long period would eventually win people over.
Well, that’s the crux, no?
If he’s delusional, he’s pitiable, whereas if he’s not delusional, he’s despicable.
(Me, I can hold both concepts simultaneously, so I care not which it is)
Unfortunately, he probably will win a part of his “appeal”: Under the law of punitive damages, he will probably succeed in getting them at least reduced (this is hypertechnical), and quite possibly entirely thrown out. That still leaves the actual damages, which are a hefty chunk of change regardless.
But not sufficient.
Is every Trump follower delusional? If so l think, based on the number of them, that there may be no hope for our species. Has Giuliani gulped the Trumpian Kool-Aid to a point where there is no return? Is it that you have to be delusional to be brainwashed, does being brainwashed make you delusional, or can Giuliani just not afford to be sane any more?
I am so fucking sick of these “big lie” assholes. After the decision, Giuliani was on the TV cameras saying “I never got a chance to tell my side of the story!” which is a surreal lie: he lost the case on a default judgement for not telling his side of the story. His sithlord master, Trump, is (of course) pulling the same shit. Naturally, the “reporters” don’t ask the right questions, or give favorable coverage implicitly supporting the lie.
can Giuliani just not afford to be sane any more?
I think the problem is not that complicated -- the republican/MAGA ideologues have backed themselves into a corner in which (to them) “truth does not matter any more” because truth contradicts their lies. If you know the truth, but you still want to attempt to justify your actions to your followers: you lie. The lies get bigger and bigger the more they move from the truth, because eventually facts and reality begin to pile up against you.
A rational person would by definition try to make some kind of connection between their beliefs and reality as they know it, and an irrational person would simply make statements based on their incorrect view of the truth. So, to your word “sanity”: they are highly sane -- they know the truth and are rejecting it because it does not line up with what they want.
I see the whole topic not as a question of sanity, but rather of power: it is a demonstration of a sort of power to be able to tell whopping lies. That’s why religious leaders have been doing it for a very long time. “Look you I have access to secret inside information that tells me otherwise…” and “may god strike me dead if I am lying!” (god does not strike them dead) “see! it’s all true!”
Giuliani is not lying in an attempt to achieve anything regarding the battle he has already lost badly. He is lying because his lies are a way of shrieking “FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU!” which he couldn’t do and still have the media cover what he’s saying. He’s screaming from his position of post-truth that the suckers who are concerned with the truth can just kiss his privileged ass. This, by the way, is why MAGA is not faring very well in the judicial system. The judicial system is tuned to filter out spin and lies and orients toward evidence.
Next up is when MAGA starts trying to cork the entire judicial system by packing it with judges who will deliberately move it away from evidence toward strong belief. Not that the MAGA strongly believe the truth of their position, it’s that they strongly wish it were true.
I’m kind of interested to see if this payout is really gonna happen. I’d bet the fella is not a hundred-millionaire, not a ten-mil, maybe a couple-mil, if that. He does not exactly give off hyper competent/mastermind vibes and it’s strange his lawyers didn’t use the mental incompetence card.
All in all a surreal, tawdry show, let’s just hope the other fool with the dead squirrel on his head swiftly follows on the same way -- upside down in the field latrine.
@outis:
He’s got some money, but definitely he’ll never have much, any more. His apartment in New York currently lists at $6.1mn. Makes you wonder if he was trying to sell it and offshore the money before the judgement.
listing
But he can live on Alex Jones’ couch.
What’s scary about this kind of crap is that “bankrupt” poor people wind up living under a bridge, while “bankrupt” rich people have to scrape by on a set amount which is a pittance. For example, Alex Jones, who openly offshored his money announcing that the plaintiffs would never get a cent of their $1bn judgement -- he’s currently scaping by on a court-ordered $75,000/month. Month.
Marcus @7:
Well put.
Marcus @9: I see, so we can maybe probably say that the lightweight villain Giuliabby is done and cooked. It’s a step forward.
But as you point out much worse horrors like A.Jones are still living large, thumbing their nose at the justice system and those whose lives they ruined.
Not a lawyer, so I find this really hard to understand. Hhhhhh.
outs @#11,
Jones is not getting away completely. There are signs that he is under pressure to pay up.
And while the more stupid of the followers do believe the lies, many others know they are lies, but assenting to and repeating them is a demonstration of loyalty.