Russia, Russia gate, overthrow, regime change, propaganda, coup d’état, 2016 presidential election, hiking, interference, Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, 81 wrongs, Cold War, covert, CIA
As cartoonist Ted Rall says: “The United States tried to overthrow or directly interfere in the elections of at least 80 countries throughout the Cold War alone. How exactly is it in a position to complain if it turns out to be true that Russia interfered with the 2016 presidential election?”
I think this sort of misses the more important point, namely that the American electoral system has been constructed to be corrupt, and the two parties have engaged for a long time in the same kind of things the Russians are accused of doing. So, wait, the Russians were dropping embarrassing docs about Clinton? Like the ones that the Democrats were having Steele write about Trump? The Russians were “troll farming” -- well -- can we map “troll farming” against “astroturfing” or “voter feedback dynamics”? It seems to me that the Dems and Republicans are pissed off that the Russians didn’t pay a billion dollars for a seat at the “Influence the American Election” table -- they walked in with a couple hundred thousand bucks and had the same impact. That’s got to be grievous for the two parties, I’m sure: all that money! Waah! But so what, the Russians tried to steal the election that the Democrats thought they had stolen (and the Republicans did steal)
Sure, per the cartoon, it’s nice that the Russians didn’t try to alter American election politics using high explosive, which is how the CIA seems to like to do it (also: bags of money, but the Russians did do some of that) The US is definitely in no position to complain about any of this -- but they still will. Because: all that money!
I once, rather flippantly, said “turnabout is fair play” but I am not sure in which blog. An American poster was extremely upset. I was joking but that was and is how I feel.
The USA, reportedly on Bill Clinton’s direct orders, invested roughly 100 million dollars in one way or another, including some arms twisting on the IMF and/or World Bank and sending in US election campaign advisors, to get Boris Yeltsin re-elected thereby, incidentally, advancing the career of Vladimir Putin. No good deed goes unrewarded.
The Russians are supposed to have invested what, less than a million dollars, in a campaign that probably spent over one billion and that carried the election? Boy those Russians are sure a lot cleverer than those stupid Yankees.
I remain unconvinced that there was direct interference by the Russian Federation in the election though, as I keep repeating, I am more than willing to believe Trump, his family and his associates were and maybe are up to their necks in dirty dealing with various unsavory characters in Russia and other former Soviet republics.
I, also, am not impressed when the US blows up some possible jihadist who is a US citizen and the US population gets upset because said jihadist did not get a fair trial. Hell, from my point of view, if Americans want to kill each other, let them go to it. It seems to be a national sport as it is.
I get upset when the US illegally invades othe countries and kills citizens of other countries with no justification and in defiance of international law.
We are not just talking possible terrorists but little children, wedding parties and possible the village donkey with no really noticeable concern in the USA’s general population. Quite clearly Americans regard everyone else as lesser breeds without the law.
/End rant for the moment. This is rather heart-warming though: https://www.icc-cpi.int/Pages/item.aspx?name=171120-otp-stat-afgh
“Exceptionalism.”
Duh. There’s a big, big difference:
The USA does it for good, everyone else does it for evil.
the answer is blowing in the wind
And you, Roman, be mindful to rule the peoples of the world with your command,
For these are your special arts; to impose the custom of peace,
to spare the vanquished and to war down the proud.
jkrideau @#2,
Thanks for the link to the ICC prosecutor’s proposal. It will be fought by all the named parties, of course. War crimes are what other people commit.
The right of imperial powers is to interfere in the internal politics of lesser countries and to bomb the crap out of them and massacre their populations with impunity. Sometimes the foreigners retaliate, it’s just outrageous. One estimate, by Prof. Johan Galtung, claims that the US has killed, directly or indirectly, 20 million people since WW2.
@6
“…. and to make a desolation and call it ‘peace’
@ 7 Mano
War crimes are what other people commit.
And since I am not an American citizen….
@ 8 rjw1
Sometimes the foreigners retaliate, it’s just outrageous.
Cet animal est très méchant, Quand on l’attaque il se défend.
Hypocrisy is a core american value.
-- Complain about Russian election rigging but ignore the US’s actions
-- Complain about other countries’ war crimes but ignore the US’s own
-- Complain about China’s slave labour prisons and number of executions but ignore the US’s
-- Complain about China’s human rights abuses but ignore the US’s
-- Complain about “cheap foreign imports” while ignoring US product dumping (which made the Haitian earthquake that much worse)
Among many others. It never ends.