Rebecca Watson’s video hit me hard — I was there for almost all of the events she talked about. I never did enough. So I had to express myself a little bit.
A lot of folks were conned by those supposed thought leaders, but PZ, you were one of the first ones to jump off the ship as soon as you saw the cruelty unmasked. You even tossed a “grenade” at Michael Shermer as you went over the railing.
It’s good to see this “confessional” video though, because it proves your honesty and the shame you (and many of us in the readership) rightly feel by any association with that cabal, which is a true sign that you deserve trust. And good job Rebecca Watson. Watched her video a short while ago and naturally had to check out Pharyngula to see what you had to say about it.
Here’s a recent post from Digby’s blog (H/T Tom Sullivan & Anand Giridharadas) that provides a good explanation of what they call The Epstein Class: https://digbysblog.net/?s=epstein+class
chrislawsonsays
We all have different personalities, obviously, but I don’t feel shame about Dawkins, Shermer, Krauss, etc., because I had no influence on them or their decisions. The emotion I feel is white-hot fury that these people ended up thoroughly betraying the values they pretended to represent.
In fairness, PZ, I remember you calling out Shermer as soon as you found out he was a rapist.
At this point, I wasn’t shocked to find out how many of these people were in the Epstein files, I was shocked at how moronic they sounded, and about how gross these organizations were. Sure, I’m not going to judge people for the opened of their relationships, but it’s super inappropriate to put the people you’re fucking on the side in charge of your foundation.
it’s painful but useful sometimes to catch a monkeywrench in the feels. reflecting, was there something wrong with the atheoskeptic movement even at its best, in the noble words they said in the light of day? is atheist evangelism a thing we should be doing, and if so, how should we be going about it? was that it?
reminds one of athesim plus, that idea atheism alone ain’t hackin it. as you are well aware. weren’t you the guy who came up with “dictionary atheist” as a label? i don’t recall. but clearly atheism plus wasn’t working. i hopped on that ship two minutes before it sank.
so what should a progressive atheist movement be like? if it should exist at all? having heavy doubts is a good thing, as long as you can get to a good place in the wake of them.
imbacksays
When our community did experience Deep Rifts, let’s at least have some encouragement that we did not stick with the side that promoted perverts and pedophiles.
A lot of folks were conned by those supposed thought leaders, but PZ, you were one of the first ones to jump off the ship as soon as you saw the cruelty unmasked. You even tossed a “grenade” at Michael Shermer as you went over the railing.
It’s good to see this “confessional” video though, because it proves your honesty and the shame you (and many of us in the readership) rightly feel by any association with that cabal, which is a true sign that you deserve trust. And good job Rebecca Watson. Watched her video a short while ago and naturally had to check out Pharyngula to see what you had to say about it.
Here’s a recent post from Digby’s blog (H/T Tom Sullivan & Anand Giridharadas) that provides a good explanation of what they call The Epstein Class:
https://digbysblog.net/?s=epstein+class
We all have different personalities, obviously, but I don’t feel shame about Dawkins, Shermer, Krauss, etc., because I had no influence on them or their decisions. The emotion I feel is white-hot fury that these people ended up thoroughly betraying the values they pretended to represent.
Thank you, PZ.
golly
that got alot of responses on the ytub
👍
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In fairness, PZ, I remember you calling out Shermer as soon as you found out he was a rapist.
At this point, I wasn’t shocked to find out how many of these people were in the Epstein files, I was shocked at how moronic they sounded, and about how gross these organizations were. Sure, I’m not going to judge people for the opened of their relationships, but it’s super inappropriate to put the people you’re fucking on the side in charge of your foundation.
it’s painful but useful sometimes to catch a monkeywrench in the feels. reflecting, was there something wrong with the atheoskeptic movement even at its best, in the noble words they said in the light of day? is atheist evangelism a thing we should be doing, and if so, how should we be going about it? was that it?
reminds one of athesim plus, that idea atheism alone ain’t hackin it. as you are well aware. weren’t you the guy who came up with “dictionary atheist” as a label? i don’t recall. but clearly atheism plus wasn’t working. i hopped on that ship two minutes before it sank.
so what should a progressive atheist movement be like? if it should exist at all? having heavy doubts is a good thing, as long as you can get to a good place in the wake of them.
When our community did experience Deep Rifts, let’s at least have some encouragement that we did not stick with the side that promoted perverts and pedophiles.