The US government hates drug dealers so much that they’re willing to blow up fishing boats to kill them extrajudicially — boats that might contain only fishermen, but because some are “narcoboats,” the Secretary of War believes he is authorized to “kill everybody”.
During the 2 September operation, led by the elite counter-terrorist group Seal Team 6, a first missile strike left two survivors clinging on to the wreck, the Post reported. Adm Frank M “Mitch” Bradley, head of Special Operations Command, reportedly ordered a second strike to kill the two survivors to comply with Hegseth’s orders.
Some current and former US officials and experts have said, according to the Post, that the Trump administration’s missile strikes in the Caribbean may be unlawful. To date, more than 80 people have been killed in the series of military strikes, targeting at least 22 more boats.
No wonder our president thinks telling our military to not follow unlawful orders is sedition — he’s eager to commit murder under the excuse that he opposes drug trafficking. Curiously, though, while he’s slaughtering low-level possible narcotics dealers without evidence that they actually are criminals, he’s showing mercy to rich, convicted kingpins of the drug trade who made millions of dollars shipping cocaine into the US.
President Donald Trump said Friday that he will be pardoning former Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernandez, who in 2024 was convicted for drug trafficking and weapons charges and sentenced to 45 years in prison.
What’s the difference between a poor South American guy working on a small boat in the ocean and a rich Central American who probably has many millions of dollars salted away in shady banks? I don’t think it’s geography. I suspect someone got an awful lot of money to whisper in a senile president’s ear. Said president might have also wet his beak in the bribe.
Hey, does anyone else think this whole business of presidents being able to circumvent the law and nullify the decisions of the courts to reek of royal privilege?
Responsible Statecraft knows what’s up:
It’s anti-communist warlords looking out for each other, on the eve of a major project to purge the Americas of any remaining leftist governments.
There are so many things wrong with the Trump GOP premeditated murders off the coast of Venezuela that it is hard to know where to start.
.1. Killing suspects is illegal.
These boats and people aren’t guilty of crimes. They are suspected of being drug runners.
.2. The usual procedure is to, stop those boats, search them, and arrest the people if they are transporting illegal drugs.
The US Coast guard does this to boats around the USA, dozens or hundreds of times a day.
This is not complicated to understand.
AFAICT, the US Navy is killing people just to kill people.
It is a power and intimidation game.
If you can kill people and get away with it, you have power.
.3. Those boats they destroy aren’t smuggling drugs to the USA. They are small, short range boats that might get 100 miles before running out of gas. From Venezuela to Florida is 1,400 miles.
It’s thought any drugs they are carrying are ultimately going to Europe and Africa.
The usual smuggling route for cocaine to the USA is from Colombia along the Pacific coast. Which is not where the US Navy is using people in boats for target practice.
Raven @ #2 — It’s true there are many things wrong with what the Trumper’s are doing. I think it’s a toss up whether the aim is pressuring Venezuela or placating salivating MAGAs. A couple of notes:
• According to this Wikipedia article on the subject (here), there have been 11 attacks on boats in the Pacific. Those are clearly not “Venezuelan” drug dealers. Perhaps we’re hearing more about the Caribbean attacks as part of the pressure on Venezuela.
• Several of the attacks with known locations have been close to Venezuela’s coast and near the Windward islands. One attack was a boat headed for Trinidad. So even the claim that the boats are headed to the US is questionable. In any case, it does suggest that the boats didn’t need 150-200 gallon tanks to make it across the Caribbean to the US.
I will not be surprised if it’s revealed that Trump attended a coke party or something with a drug kingpin.
No, he’s not one of Trump’s acquaintances from what I can tell. Instead he’s a friend of the techno-libertarian like Peter Theil. They worked together to create the Zones for Employment and Economic Development (ZEDEs) in Honduras. Basically little ~colonial~ areas where the national government has limited jurisdiction so foreign companies can ~exploit~ invest in the country’s resources and workers.
Those zones mostly got rolled back later, but they were close from working on those projects.
Also, Trump seems to be drug- and alcohol-phobic, so I doubt that he personally snorted any of Hernandez’s coke.
The Former JAGs Working Group pulls no punches. They say this double boat attack is either murder or a war crime, or both.
https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/former-jag-working-group-no-quarter-statement.pdf
For extra head-asplodiness, remember that this is going on while the same president is Jonesing for a Nobel peace prize. Good luck with that‽
[related]
Pardons for sale: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7vmn61l75ro
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Trump releases fraudster executive days into prison sentence
3 hours ago
US President Donald Trump has commuted the sentence of former investment manager David Gentile, who was just days into a seven-year prison sentence for fraud.
Bureau of Prisons records show that Gentile was released on Wednesday, less than two weeks after he reported to prison.
Gentile, the former chief executive and founder of GPB Capital, was convicted last year in what federal prosecutors described as a multi-year scheme to defraud more than 10,000 investors by misrepresenting the performance of private equity funds.
He’s the latest in a string of white-collar criminals whose sentences Trump has commuted.
—
Me, I concur with PZ. More about grift than about politics. It’s a pattern.
Franklin the Turtle Becomes an AI Meme After Pete Hegseth Jokes About War Crimes
[OT]
Reginald, your adductions are utterly void of focus or editorial content.
I took a peek, briefly considered it. I now provide my instant assessment.
If that is attempting to make light of the allegations, thus signalling that the charges are laughable, then that in itself evinces avoidance, because if the allegations were truly baseless they could be rebutted directly. That intimates tacit guilt (or at least fear of engagement_.
If it’s supposed to be some sort of grotesque satire or merely provocative to ‘flood the zone’ and derail discussion of the facts, then that’s rather likely to backfire.
That intimates contempt for accountability.
If he’s recasting the situation as justified nationalist self-defence by showing even a beloved and gentle figure can be forced into the necessity for violence against threats, then that implicitly acknowledges the accusation, much as that first consideration by seeking to justify it.
(obs, more frames exist, but those are more than the zero frames you provided.
And we can all read the news for ourselves)
I guess due to my Miami Vice bias and profound lack of boat knowledge I assumed go-fasts were typically closed hull. The images I’ve seen appear to be open hull, carrying some sort of cargo and have multiple outboards. I suppose go-fasts could have open hull too, yet I don’t understand the logistics of a gallons per hour uber-beast speed boast blasting through the rough oceans from Columbia or Venezuela to somewhere, maybe a relay spot to a US destination.
Why not interdict in a far less deadly instead of no holds barred manner that appear to be war crimes? Would such heavy-handedness “win” the never ending “drug war”? Probably not. Hegseth gets to wave his Faux News bravado.
Regardless my main concern now is how this alleged drug-running stuff is being warped into a rehash of the Gulf of Tonkin or WMD to justify boots on the ground in Venezuela. Not looking forward to the guerrilla phase of that for US troops. Yeah Maduro might not be a swell guy, but what’s the actual motive here…stopping drugs or getting oil? Or deflecting from Epstein some more?
And with Rubio at the fore of foreign policy how long before Bay of Pigs 2.0? Cuba next?
Here is the latest on the next US War of Choice and Aggression for No Good Reason.
Basically, surrender or die soon.
.1. This seems to be a done deal.
It’s going to happen soon.
.2. No one can or will stop it.
I’d ask where is the US congress in all this but we already know they’ve given up governing. Most of the time they aren’t even in session and on vacations.
.3. So, what is this war going to cost me directly now?
I knew people killed in Vietnam.
Two of my friends died in Iraq.
This time, probably none of my friends and family will be there.
A lot of them have died of old age and the rest aren’t going to be in a war zone.
Who is at risk these days are…our grandchildren.
It will be the usual. Watching soul crushing events as people are killed for no good reasons by the evil homicidal criminals that currently run the USA.
raven, hardly a ‘war’.
Blowing up fiberglass boats full of people using miltary warheads is just flexing.
(And clearly, nobody is gonna stand up to the gorilla in the room)
That was just book one in the series. Book two is Franklin Goes to the Hague
John Morales @15
No raven hit on exactly what I’ve been seeing. It seems a pretext to war at least to be attacking these boats. And we might be threatening Maduro as if he’s another Saddam Husayn. I hope it is a nothing burger, but if the US is doing another Vietnam/Iraq bullshit maneuver that’s not going to end well for anyone.
Also in my @12 my boat terminology probably sucks. I’m contrasting boats where there is open space through out most of the boat’s top end versus the cigarette style where most of the front end is enclosed. On a cursory look at the strikes I’m seeing open structure boats.
Can someone please refresh my memory on what the expression “wag the dog” means? Maybe it’s irrelevant to the spectacle we are now witnessing. Maybe.
‘It seems a pretext to war at least to be attacking these boats.’
Yes, I know it seems so to you.
I also told you that it seems like flexing to me.
Also, remember this is TACO about whom you speak.
We will see.
“Can someone please refresh my memory on what the expression “wag the dog” means?”
Sure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wag_the_dog
PS see https://asiatimes.com/2025/09/was-the-venezuela-gangs-fast-boat-crew-bent-on-terrorism/
↓
One question that lingers over this event, which marked a major policy change by the current administration, is why the fast boat was carrying 11 people. Typically, narcotics smugglers’ fast boats – sometimes called go-fasts – are operated by two or three crew members.
A fast boat is usually made from fiberglass. The boats are manufactured under cover, often near the coastline in jungle areas. They are fast because they are equipped with powerful inboard or outboard engines.
The destroyed fast boat had three outboard engines. These engines are often from major manufacturers such as Yamaha and Mercury, with individual motors capable of 250 horsepower or more.
Jim Wright of the Stonekettle Station blog has a goodd analysis and noted some key questions that need to be asked of the regime that I posted on the Infinite thread here :
https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2025/10/01/infinite-thread-xxxvii/comment-page-5/#comment-2285514
What Kegsbreath and co and doing here is piracy as well as war crimes and war mongeringas JimWright also noted inanother fb post.
its also clearly bullying and showing contempt for interational law, Human Rights and Democracy.
@1. The Truymp Enabling Bad Faith Troll “beholder” : It’s anti-communist warlords looking out for each other, on the eve of a major project to purge the Americas of any remaining leftist governments.
Citations? Evidence? Specifics?
Nah, course not. Just pure assertion and speculation on your part. Deserving to be dismissed as such.
StevoR @22
Well we have Hillary Clinton here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/31/hillary-clinton-honduras-violence-manuel-zelaya-berta-caceres
Also in other news:
Fast forward:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/dec/01/trump-pardon-juan-orlando-hernandez-honduras-former-president
An irony meter broken:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/24/honduran-judges-throw-out-single-term-limit-on-presidency
Checking notes: did Bill Clinton stand for reelection once?
@ ^ Hemidactylus : HRC wanting new democratic elections in 2016 is quite different from Trump outright demanding regime change by threat of deadly force and invasion. It’s the difference between asking somebody for something and putting a gun to their head demanding it.
It is also quite different to the Trump Enabling Bad Faith Troll’s (TEBFT’s) unsupported conspiracist claim of ” anti-communist warlords looking out for each other, on the eve of a major project to purge the Americas of any remaining leftist governments” expressed in #1.
Trump pushing reichwing politicians globally is, ofc, what people like me warned about and symptomatic of rising global fascism empowered by Trump, Putin, Musk et cetera.
Had Kamala become POTUS instead of Trump then that would’ve been a global set-back for fascists and regressives generally and strengthened the International Rules-Based Order with the Democratic parties typical multilateral and co-operative rather the Repugs unilateral, isolationist imperialist approach to global relations..
[meta]
So now we talk about Bill Clinton and about Hillary Clinton, Hemidactylus?
Provocateur has provoked, bait has been taken, I see.
For you: “Can someone please refresh my memory on what the expression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy means?”
(Oh, so very
drooldroll)You too, StevoR.
@ Hemidactylus : “Checking notes: did Bill Clinton stand for reelection once?”
Yes. Bill Clinton defeated Republican Bob Dole -then considered arguably too old for the job at 73 years of age – in the 1996 USoA election. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Dole#1996_presidential_campaign
Bill Clinton also won multiple elections as Governor of Arkansas and the Democratic primaries for the nominations obvs. For all his many flaws, winning elections was something Bill Clinton was very good at doing.
StevoR, ahem. Hemidactylus is crudely being sarcastically rhetorical.
(see my #26)
@ ^ Ah. fair enough. Hard to tell at time sand they did ask!
Still remember some of the old jokes about Bob Dole’s age from that including relating it to possible life found in a martian meteorite.
Yes, yes, but the topic is non-military boats are being blown up, and you both got sucked into talking about 1996 instead.
Again: dead cat. Again: flood the zone.
Digression, debouchment, loss of focus, loss of interest for those with interest in the topic.
(Being woke is more than about racism)
Be aware, if not woke.
@25 StevoR
You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means.
“The Rules-Based International Order”, or its permutations, was always a politically correct way to avoid saying, “We are specifically avoiding invoking the concept of international law because what we are doing is outrageously illegal, so we’ll call this a Rules-Based International Order instead.” Whose rules? Well, right now it’s Trump’s rules with the agreement of a few of Trump’s chummy buddies (hey, that’s multilaterialism!). One of those rules is apparently: If you exist on a boat anywhere near the adversary of the week, the U.S. will take corrective action.
And you’re defending that as a standard of the good old days with Democrats in charge? Please. If they weren’t interested in stopping a genocide, why would they be interested in stopping this?
beholder, your polemic is risible.
@32. Trump Enabling Bad Faith Troll “beholder” (hereafter TEBFTB) :
I’ve already given you the definition (a term and NOT a phrase BTW troll) of Rules Based Order as recognised by wikipedia in my comment #48 on this previous thread :
https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2025/11/29/the-most-cutting-burn-ever/#comment-2285684
But again for the record and convenience of thsoe here :
Your (TEBFTB) refusal to accept reality as we know it and refusal to grasp basic terms and understandings of international politics is duly noted.
False.
See the actual definition already provided above. Failure to denote who you refer to by “we” here also noted.
Whose fault is that again? Oh yeah, your fault along with the other Trump voters and all thsoe who did NOT vote for Kamala harris which wa sthe onlydemocratic way of stopping Trump and his fascist taekover of the USoA.
No, no it is not. Another basic term the TBFTB is either deliberately ignorant orf or maliciously lying about.
Nope. It is that the Trump dictatorship is comitting war crimes and menacing the world by murdering people in boats supplying no good evidnece or reason to do so.
Not quite although thingswer e differnetand far betetr under Biden, Obama ,etc .. What I explictly stated a sfact because it is fact was :
Had Kamala become POTUS instead of Trump then that would’ve been a global set-back for fascists and regressives generally and strengthened the International Rules-Based Order with the Democratic parties typical multilateral and co-operative rather the Repugs unilateral, isolationist imperialist approach to global relations..- my #25.
Your false premise is a fals epremise and therefore your inferences do not follow.
They were intrested in stopping a genocide wheeras Trump was not and they would stop this if they had the power to do so.
I’ve already noted before in previous threads but will note yet again here that the Biden administration and Kamala Harris worked towards a ceasefire in Gaza,criticised Netanyahu and did at least three things that the fascist Trumpist dictatorship now run by shadow POTUS Stephen Miller did NOT do and has since reversed .
(A) Biden and Harris called for restraint from Israel following the October 7th 2023 Hamas attack :
Watch and hear here – Biden urges Israel to show restraint in its response to Hamas just over 2 mins long.
(B) Biden and Harris sanctioned Israeli settlers & tried to discourage Israeli settlements in the West Bank :
Source : https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/24/treasury-terminates-sanctions-israeli-settlers-00200479
Emphasis added for our wilfully ignorant or maliciously lying – or both – Trump supporting and thereby genocide aiding troll “beholder” here.
Plus ( C ) Biden withheld some weapons from Netanyahu regime despite Israel demanding them :
Source : https://mccormick.house.gov/media/in-the-news/daily-caller-exclusive-more-100-lawmakers-slam-biden-withholding-weapons-israel
Or one sentence summary here :
Biden called for restraint from Israel, sanctioned extremist Israeli settlers and withheld some weapons from Israel.
Genocide Don Trump reversed all those measures and has proven, again and as warned, vastly worse than Kamala on Gaza as well as on pretty much everything else that real progressives and most people living on this pale blue dot care about.
Some emphatic repetition because apparently its needed and seems too few actually got it at the time or still now.
StevoR and John Morales:
Beholder had furnished this quote:
I thought of Honduras and the fishy antics of Hillary Clinton with regards to the coup against Zelaya. The Guardian article I first cited says:
Zelaya was deposed and we conveniently looked the other way via Clinton.
For more on that currently topical situation…yes her emails:
https://cepr.net/publications/hillary-clintons-emails-and-the-honduras-coup/
Yet now Honduran presidents can now stand for reelection as did Hillary’s husband Bill and…checks notes…Obama. Irony there. Yet John goes with some cat on the table diversion of his own.
Beholder has serious faults, but was introducing and important issue given stuff like the Washington
neoliberal consensus and what not.
Oh and this gets interesting for its nuance on dealing with Article 239 aside from the irony of who benefitted from the change where Honduran presidents can be reelected:
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_constitutional_crisis
I do believe Juan Orlando Hernández makes an appearance in PZ’s OP. BTW Castro is married to Zelaya.
You can always tell when he hasn’t a clue what he’s talking about because he’ll start telling you he runs the country as if it’s a gossip column. “People are saying…” becomes his reason for doing anything. I really have no idea why anyone might think that would constitute a reason for a world leader to do anything whatsoever. “People are saying…” doesn’t mean a lot of people or any educated or informed people at all. It just means a plural and in Trump’s case that usually seems to translate into the desperately-wishes-he-could-use-it royal ‘we’.
Heh. You mean that beholder (the nym is not capitalised) has you talking about the Clintons and how terrible the Democrats were back in the day, and I noted that?
(Such a diversion!)
But still, do go on about the 2009_Honduran_constitutional_crisis
Recent (and relevant):
[oh, as soon as you see the sponsored content, skip ahead. it’s just noise — but the content is informative, even for those of us ‘on the other side of the world’]
A bit more: In the news: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/dec/03/donald-trump-somali-immigrants-ice-minnesota-pete-hegseth-caribbean-boats-venezuela-us-politics-live-latest-news-updates
• The US Institute of Peace has been renamed in Donald Trump’s honor amid a months-long battle for control over the thinktank.
The state department announced Wednesday that it had renamed the Washington DC non-profit the Donald J Trump Institute of Peace “to reflect the greatest dealmaker in our nation’s history”. Photos showed the president’s name in at least two places on the building.
The White House was quick to celebrate the change. According to a schedule released by the White House on Wednesday evening, Trump planned to participate in a “signing ceremony” with the leaders of Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of the Congo at the “Donald J Trump Institute of Peace”.
• Donald Trump continued his xenophobic attacks on Somali immigrants, telling reporters on Wednesday that “those Somalians should be out of here. They’ve destroyed our country” and that congresswoman Ilhan Omar should be “thrown the hell out”.
The president’s remarks came the day after he called Somali immigrants “garbage” and reports emerged that ICE agents would stage an operation in the Minneapolis-St Paul metro area primarily focused on Somalis with final deportation orders. Local officials have said the city stands with the community.
• A Democratic representative plans to introduce articles of impeachment against Pete Hegseth as criticism mounts over the defense secretary’s handling of a September boat strike and a Pentagon report that found his use of the Signal app violated policy.