Did you know that Darwinists are devolving, according to the Discovery Institute? They even have a picture of this devolution, so it must be true.
I guess they haven’t noticed that if you talk to any evolutionary biologists today, they all consistently rebuke the old cartoonish illustration of the ‘descent of man,’ so it’s silly to use that against us. But then that’s all they’ve got, the enshrinement of antique notions that they can attack without ever having to deal with the reality of modern biology. They’re claiming that the proponents of Darwinism seemed to be shrinking in stature
unaware of the irony of demanding that we defend Darwin — Darwinism, the narrow set of ideas that formed the core of evolutionary theory in the 1800s, is obsolete and outmoded. We aren’t defending those any more. We’ve got better, more complete models of how evolution works nowadays, and they don’t include illustrations of linear trajectories of changing individuals.
But this article from John West isn’t about the science, it’s about crowing over the defeat of their adversaries, even when no defeat occurred. So he marches through a small set of individuals, bashing them and claiming victory.
Consider Brown University biologist Kenneth Miller, author of the anti-ID polemic Finding Darwin’s God in 1999. Miller was a gifted debater, but his arguments all too often relied on citation bluffing and critiquing straw-man versions of the ideas of Michael Behe and others.
Miller is still fighting, why is West using the past tense? Miller was part of the team that achieved possibly the greatest, most decisive defeat of the Discovery Institute’s agenda in the Kitzmiller trial. “Citation bluffing” seems to be the term they use to dismiss the fact that Behe’s claim of no scientific publications on the evolution of the immune system could be addressed by presenting book after book after book on the subject he claimed didn’t exist.
As for the claim of straw-manning creationists, I think it’s pretty silly to do that in an article where West constantly harps on Darwinism
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Francis Collins, in his book The Language of God, was even shallower in his critique. Indeed, if you read Collins’s book today, you’ll find that many of his arguments, including junk DNA, have been increasingly thrown overboard by mainstream science.
So who was left to champion the old time religion of Darwinism?
They have this delusion that junk DNA doesn’t exist, and that citing a few articles that have rightly shown some function for some tiny fraction of junk DNA means that the whole of it must be functional, and that their perspective is supported by “mainstream science.” It’s not. And why should they care? Mainstream science says that evolution is true!
Once again, they bring up this claim that Darwinism
is a religion. We can criticize Darwinism all we want without being thrown down into the pit of Hell.
Then, oh boy, they remember little ol’ me:
You also had biologist P. Z. Myers at the University of Minnesota Morris. He too could debate, although the quality of what you got was decidedly second rate. His preferred mode of discourse was invective. As he once instructed his fellow evolutionists, they should “screw the polite words and careful rhetoric. It’s time for scientists to break out the steel-toed boots and brass knuckles, and get out there and hammer on the lunatics and idiots” — by which he meant, of course, anyone who dared to criticize Darwin’s theory.
John West has been crying about that quote since 2005. The Discovery Institute used it in their promotional materials. The suggestion that we stop being polite to known liars, frauds, and incompetents was so terrifying to them that they’ve spent the last 20 years whining about it. I’m kind of impressed with myself.
He still gets it wrong. Please do continue to criticize a theory that was assembled in 1859. I don’t mind that at all. But stop thinking that your primitive, poorly understood comprehension of an old idea is at all relevant or sufficient to rebut modern evolutionary theory.
Also, don’t expect me to be courteous when you dump a bucket of that bullshit on the podium in lieu of debating the science.
Over at Sandwalk, Laurence Moran’s website, junk DNA has been discussed quite a bit in the last year. Yes, we are loaded with junk DNA. And it is junk DNA. And it is not just the creationists that get this wrong. There has been a lot of bad science regarding junk DNA over the years. Moran is rather hard nosed about this. And critiques the bad science and the creationists.
https://sandwalk.blogspot.com/
I agree completely with Moran’s position.
Glad you read reader’s comments. See mine at “I was going to cal iin a haruspex” # 11.
Well, I’m afraid you’re going to have to get used to it. Creationism is going to get another heyday thanks to Trump and his cronies, especially after the SCOTUS reverses Edwards Vs. Aguillard along with any remaining Church-State separation protections.
In Realityland, the Discovery Institute was and is a complete failure.
Their goals were outlined in the 1998 Wedge document.
So how did all that work out?
It didn’t.
When the Wedge document was published, around 90% of the US population identified as xians.
People have been leaving the xian religion at around 2 million people a year, 1%.
The number of self identified xians is now down to 66%.
It is on trend to fall below 50% of the US population around 2040.
The Discovery Institute doesn’t ever let facts and data get in the way of their lies.
The exodus of people from the US xian religions is starting to become obvious.
In most places, the churches are half full at best and a lot of churches are just closing down.
In my local area, mostly the churches are stable but membership is getting older and older and declining slowly.
In the outlying rural areas, more than half the churches have closed down over the last few decades.
I’m curious about the beards. We go from ZZ top to no beard to Abe Lincoln to no beard to a full beard. Why can’t devolution make up its mind? I won’t even mention the shoes to socks.
Must be random genetic drift.
PZ @ #8 — Perhaps it’s a hidden evolved function of junk DNA.
One could argue that Christianity devolved into creationism.
This comic has an important message that addresses part of the xtian terrorist manifesto that the ignorant commenters on go comics missed:
https://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2025/01/06
I want to know why the xtian terrorist creationists would use the words and images of ‘evolution’ twisted as devolution if they don’t believe in evolution! These buffoons keep getting tangled up in their own jebus type of pretzel logic. (yes, I know, a mixed metaphor).
@shermanj #11, one commenter did notice that today’s Non Sequitur comic is a repeat from March 17, 2008.
https://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2008/03/17
What is the important message missed?
As for the devolution picture, it reminds me of the refrain from Jocko Homo: Are we not men? We are Devo!
@13 imback asked: What is the important message missed?
I reply: I thought it would be obvious: the reference to ‘science’ still being largely an ‘old boys club’ with misogyny still in play in our xtian terrorist hi-jacked, crumbling educational system here in the u.s., which still largely not encouraging girls to pursue a career in the sciences.
@shermanj I think the previous comic is also relevant to the creationist mindset:
https://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2025/01/05
As long as I devolve into a house cat, which as everyone knows is the perfect lifeform, I’m okay with this
The triumph of the creationists is as real as the triumph of the flat earthers.
Surely this anti-science nonsense needs a psychological definition as a mental illness?
@15 stochastic pointed out another nonsequitor cartoon as being pertinent.
I reply: you are ‘right on the facts’.
@ 17
While Ham and his faction may zealously insist otherwise, the modern flat earth movement is made up of Creationists who insist that like evolution, claiming the world is round is denying the existence of the Abrahamic God. One flat-earth documentary, “Level,” which was featured on God Awful Movies, claims that round-earth claims are an attempt to make people think they are “meaningless monkey men!’
Given how their holy book describes the world, the latter’s view is the more Biblically accurate than Ham and his so-called “literalists.”
This is OT but a fun addition to the list of absurd statements flung around the way monkeys fling feces.
Musk has attacked Norway for… I am not certain, something something covering up crimes by immigrants against the native population. The Norwegian PM got pissed off and has pushed back. -In case you don’t know, Norway is one of the most transparent, charming western democracies that scores in the top ten countries on any list you choose (except “being flat”. Lots of rocky, pointy things).
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Also, Musk is wrong, wrong, wrong whenever he talks about biology.
@ 20
Doesn’t matter. What comes out of Musk’s mouth is declared fact by millions of racist, tech-bros around the world.
The only way to shut Musk up is to shut him up. (I’ll leave how up to your imagination.)
Sean D. Daily @ 16
Remember when the Alien xenomorph chose not to attack Jones the cat? Two perfect organisms recognising each other.
PZ,
That is unfair! I can be a hundred times more rude to creationists. This is anti-Swedish bias.
birgerjohansson @20: I’ve often thought that I’d like to live out my remaining years in some place like Norway. Given where I come from, though, I’m not sure that they’d have me.
What would be a good book(s) to start with to read about modern theories of evolutionary biology? (It’s about 45 years since my degree in zoology and ideas seem to have changed a bit)
2024 was the 20th anniversary of Paul Nelson Day (if I remember correctly). Until the Discovery Institute and sundry creationist FLUBs get their act together on ontogenetic depth, I’m not listening to them.
Louis
@20. birgerjohansson : “In case you don’t know, Norway is one of the most transparent, charming western democracies that scores in the top ten countries on any list you choose (except “being flat”. Lots of rocky, pointy things).
Most area covered by and number of deserts, jungles and their respective species of flora? Most F1 races,drivers and most cricket players and matches? Highest percentage of Mint Juleps drunk? ;-)
Always exceptions but yeah. Whilst I’ve never been there from allUI’ve rea dand heard Norway is one awesome nation. Would love to go one day.
dlpthomas@24– I think it would depend on what level you’re going for. Given your background in zoology, I’m guessing a good undergrad textbook. Haven’t read it myself, but a lot of people recommend Douglas Futuyma’s Evolution, most recent edition is 2023.
Dunno if its careless or deliberate but in yesterday’s Murdoch rag The Australian* our only national broadsheet ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Australian ) in an article titled “Syrian curriculum changes sound first alarm in West over new regime” (page 7) by Summer Said & Suha Maayeh is the following intresting line :
Which strikes me as a weird way of putting it. Maybe I’m reading too much into it. One odd phrase in a long article that ran along the entire bottom 5th or so of the page, maybe less, but still. Theory? Small ‘t’ and é’ plus emphasis on ‘western’ as oppsoed to Evolution being scientific reality. Little if any elaboration. The whole paper is full of Murdoch crap basically – Test cricket news aside – with a lot of reichwing propagandists spewing their stuff and so its minor and could well be nothing but.. just something I noticed and thought smells a bit off, metaphorically speaking.
.* Haven’t bought a copy in ages personally and only did so for the cricket news given we’ve just beaten India in an epic Test match & series.
StevoR — don’t bother with the Newscorp papers even for cricket. You can get good coverage from the ABC, the BBC, and the Guardian without enriching the Murdochs — and you won’t have to put up with the swipes at Pat Cummins for being “‘woke”.
@26 StevoR
All those categories are “lower is better”-categories ;)
Don’t be scared of heights if you go, but the fjords look amazing both from the water and from the Mountain side.
Wow! So John West thinks I “was a gifted debater?” Maybe that’s because I debated him in a forum in New Hampshire just before the Kitzmiller trial and it didn’t go well for Mr. West.
Thank You, PZ, for pointing out that I was lead witness in the Kitzmiller trial and that I’m still giving the creationists a hard time. This year is the 20th anniversary of that trial and the 100th of the Scopes trial. I’ll be speaking at several events and would be delighted to thrash Mr. West one more time – just for old time’s sake!
Watched a vid yesterday on an atheist youtube channel that does a fine take down on “Christianity”. It points out that everything about the “church” is utterly opposite of anything Jesus supposedly preached. He preached being basically nomadic – every act of spreading his message was a result of travelling and meeting people, not staying in a single place, yet the “church”, including clowns like Ken Ham, are obsessed with “sacred spaces”, and big buildings. He preached abandonment of worldly goods, but just in the US the “churches” accumulate and spend something on the order if more than $300 billion a year on the trappings of faith, including those buildings, and a tiny fraction by comparison on the poor. He advocated for literally selling anything you have, if it can be used to help someone in need, and again, see my above comment on wealth collection. All this seems to be due to the BS invented by Paul, who created a structured church out of it, and which every Christian since has made excuses over, even to the point of trying to simultaneously claim that Paul did the stuff he did due to, “problems he was having at the time with his group of followers, who needed more structure”, while ignoring the irony that, if this was true, then either a) none of these problems where solved by structuring it, or b) they couldn’t be bothered to stop, and are still doing it, long after the problems he was supposedly addressing went away. But, its basically excuse, after excuse, after excuse, to keep spending billions on property, idols, hierarchical power structures, and silly claims that somehow, again, in direct contradiction to what Jesus DID, having all this stuff attracts followers better than what every modern Christian calls “missionary work” – i.e., actually going places and talking to people, instead of standing behind a podium and preaching to the same people every day, while the number of attendees keeps dwindling.
Creationists are, if anything, worse imho. What is stupider, spending billions of buildings to preach to people in, or similar amounts (or more possibly) on silly buildings with fake props, teaching fake facts, in an attempt to not make people better, but just promote a small scrap of silly mythology, which contains literally nothing about the actual morality that was supposedly taught by the guy they name their religion on? Yep, that sure is going to make the world better, and feed the poor….
raven @6 Think of it as a real estate opportunity: https://glamadelaide.com.au/your-guide-to-adelaides-renovated-church-venues/
Devolved old racist and anti-semite dies at 96. Jean-Marie Le Pen +
If rumours of his addiction to ketamine are true, he’ll probably be too busy writhing in pain and pissing every half-hour before too long. (For anyone who doesn’t know, heavy ketamine use causes escalating damage to the lining of the bladder, which shrinks, and users frequently resort to even more ketamine – which is an anaesthetic – to deal with the resulting agony.)
People like musk need more personal, targeted criticism and shaming. Think of the instinct that goes in obsession about the royal family or celebrity families. It’s reasonable to examine and critically pick apart the powerful. The instinct just needs development into something reasonable.