Laughter humanizes


It looks like one line of attack the Republicans will be taking is to disparage her laughter. This is a collection of clips compiled by the Daily Mail, so you know it’s a stupid complaint.

What’s wrong with that? It’s a hearty, energetic laugh, and I like that she can find something to laugh at nowadays.

Who is turned off by that perfectly normal laugh?

Now I’m wondering…what does Donald Trump’s laugh sound like? I don’t think I’ve ever heard it.

Comments

  1. Hemidactylus says

    It’s not exactly an annoying laugh. Hopefully she laughs like that after defeating Trump in November and at her inauguration.

  2. davex says

    I can only imagine Trump’s laugh as the sound of a sneer (as a boot stamping on a human face forever.)

  3. F.O. says

    Again, they screeched for weeks about Old Biden, now they have nothing on her because the actual bad stuff she’s done is stuff that they’re super on board with.
    This is a good sign.
    Like seriously, “I don’t like the way she laughs” is the best they got.
    They are scared.

  4. says

    There’s also the misogynists who don’t want women to be able to laugh at them. Here it’s the behavior version of body shaming. So what if someone doesn’t like her laugh? They want to police the laughter and a different bigotry or another version of the same will be used next.

  5. Nemo says

    Trump is more the smug smile type. (You’re right, I can’t recall him laughing. But so, so many smirks.)

  6. kitcarm says

    Really, is this all they got? I was concerned the GOP would resort to racist and sexist comments but then remember that they should do that to expose themselves for who they really are. Or the alternative, do stuff like this to make them look desperate. Or both. It’s not going to help them.

  7. birgerjohansson says

    You are not the only ones to be repelled by Tr*mp.
    Farron Cousins:

    “Trump’s Odds Of Winning Election Drop After Convention”
    .https://youtube.com/watch?v=uKm8xP5Cx6M
    (NB there is a difference between “odds” and “polls”. Odds are more about trackning people’s reactions in the moment)

    Me: (evil, demented laughter)

  8. robro says

    I can’t wait to see t-shirts and memes:

    • Laughing all the way to the White House

    • Laughter — the best cure for Trump

    • Laughing while you weep

    There isn’t a thing wrong with her laugh. We could use a lot more of it.

  9. microraptor says

    Rethugulans are running scared. They’ve invested everything on attacking Biden over his age, being sleepy, lacking health, etc, and now that he’s out they realize that Trump is the old, tired, unhealthy person in the race.

  10. kitcarm says

    @13. I’m still a huge Doomer about everything but this guttural reaction from Republicans sure looks eye-opening. A very curious thing.

  11. nomdeplume says

    I don’t think I’ve ever heard Trump laugh either: laughing requires a sense of absurdity, of not taking every aspect of life seriously, of recognising your own quirks and absurdities. In short recognising that there is a whole world outside your own ego.

    Trump is capable of none of that.

  12. birgerjohansson says

    After watching various Republican talking heads, this is my reaction:

    Kellyanne Conway seems to use botox, which distracts from her faux outrage.
    Stephen Miller is possibly an alien that has learned to emulate anger while failing to simulate other emotions. None of the people at Fox appears likely to laugh very much.

    Anger and making old people scared is their complete skill set. As undecided voters have proven immune to them so far I am cautiously optimistic.

  13. ducksmcclucken says

    Personality matters in an election.(see Al Gore) so does the noises people make(see Howard Dean) it feels like a cheap attack because it is, but it’s also shown to work.

  14. gijoel says

    I call it a bird whistle. I wish I could think of a better name for it. It’s a cue to train wingnuts to foam at the mouth whenever used. They pick a word, phrase or meme and teach their faithful to shut down their brain and spout nonsense when they hear it.

    They chose Harris’s laugh because, as Margaret Atwood said, “Men are afraid of women that women will laugh at them.” They’ve got nothing else (yet) to criticize her, so that’s what they’re going for.

  15. birgerjohansson says

    “Donald Trump Is Losing Tremendous Amounts Of Support From A Group He Needs…”
    .https://youtube.com/watch?v=eUHVZJ6cxik

    Talking trash about Harris’ laughter (and calling her stupid, as Tr*mp just did) will not help.
    BTW Farron Cousins has a healthy laugh, despite having to live in Florida under deSantis.

  16. stuffin says

    Kamala’s laugh sounds real. That is why the Republican’s don’t like her laugh, they’re only into fake things. Trump has never laughed. Highlights his limited personality.

  17. gijoel says

    @20 Oops that should have been “They chose Harris’s laugh because, as Margaret Atwood said, “Men are afraid of women will laugh at them.” They’ve got nothing else (yet) to criticize her, so that’s what they’re going for.”

  18. robro says

    A comment from Harris shared by my partner:

    I took on perpetrators of all kinds. Predators who abused women. Fraudsters who ripped off consumers. Cheaters who broke the rules for their own gain. So hear me when I say: I know Donald Trump’s type.”

  19. says

    Trump’s laugh is probably something like this:

    He wants to be a supervillain/Bond villain, but he just doesn’t have it…

  20. StevoR says

    These are the major false narratives that will try to convince Americans Kamala Harris isn’t fit for office*

    Four years ago, when Kamala Harris became US President Joe Biden’s running mate, she also became “the most derided woman” in US politics, according to a misinformation study.

    The analysis identified Ms Harris, a black and south Asian woman, as a lightning rod for misogyny and racism. On Monday after Mr Biden endorsed her to lead the Democrats, it only took minutes for deeply offensive false narratives about her to resurface.

    ABC NEWS Verify has been tracking how old tropes, falsehoods, and misinformation are already being weaponised against the current frontrunner for the Democratic nomination.

    Our analysis also provides a preview of how grim the political discourse may yet become….

    Source : https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-23/kamala-harris-us-president-racist-sexist-tropes/104127680

    .* Headline -one of two also titled ‘How Kamala Harris’s run for the US presidency has reignited old racist and sexist tropes’ i like that top one better. Emphasis on the falseness of them.

  21. Hatchetfish says

    I’m going to assume any genuine laugh by Agent Orange is adequately captured by at least one of the various screen depictions of Baron Harkonnen, except for an underlying note of deep seated and insatiable insecurity in Trump’s rendition.

  22. Walter Solomon says

    Personality matters in an election.(see Al Gore) so does the noises people make(see Howard Dean) it feels like a cheap attack because it is, but it’s also shown to work.

    Ah, the quaint old days when it would’ve been unthinkable that one of the leading candidates for president was a convicted felon and civilly-liable rapist. Times change.

  23. Reginald Selkirk says

    Harris earns $231 million in donations on first day of presidential campaign

    Vice President Kamala Harris claimed a stunning $231 million from small and big donors in the first 24 hours since she launched her presidential campaign.

    In a huge vote of confidence for her still-nascent campaign, Harris won $81 million in small-dollar donations and reportedly scored an additional $150 million “money bomb” from big donors in what amounted to the biggest one-day haul of the 2024 election cycle.

    The money bomb, including a reported $11 million haul in a single hour Sunday, signals rising enthusiasm among rank-and-file Democrats after President Joe Biden stepped down from the race and handed the baton to Harris to take on former President Donald Trump…

  24. Reginald Selkirk says

    House Republicans say Biden must resign after ending reelection campaign

    This is completely stupid and without logical basis. If this principle held, this could never have happened:

    Big Papi reflects on historic final season
    When it comes to Hall of Fame candidates, it would be hard — if not impossible — to make a better last impression than Red Sox legend David Ortiz did in his final season of 2016.

    Big Papi announced on his 40th birthday — Nov. 18, 2015 — that the following season would be his last.

    The big slugger proceeded to spend his final season tormenting opponents and bashing the baseball like a man still in the middle of his prime…

  25. says

    House Republicans say Biden must resign after ending reelection campaign

    Somehow, I get the impression this is a stupid ploy to avoid a Harris ’28 term.

  26. KG says

    Somehow, I get the impression this is a stupid ploy to avoid a Harris ’28 term. – Recursive Rabbit@43

    It wolud be a very stupid ploy, because it wouldn’t avoid a Harris ’28 term. If someone succeeds to the presidency more than halfway through a term, they can serve two full subsequent terms. Hence LBJ could have served the 1968-72 term if he had run and won in 1968. It’s just an attempt to keep the focus on Biden’s incapacity (and in my view, he probably should resign, both because I don’t believe he’s in sufficient cognitive health to continue to serve, and because it would help Harris).

  27. says

    It wolud be a very stupid ploy, because it wouldn’t avoid a Harris ’28 term. If someone succeeds to the presidency more than halfway through a term, they can serve two full subsequent terms. Hence LBJ could have served the 1968-72 term if he had run and won in 1968. It’s just an attempt to keep the focus on Biden’s incapacity (and in my view, he probably should resign, both because I don’t believe he’s in sufficient cognitive health to continue to serve, and because it would help Harris).

    I knew about that, but I figure I know more about law than most Republican voters. And even then, they’re not likely to care about what the law actually says.

  28. Nemo says

    I dunno what the GOP is playing at, but it does seem a reasonable bet that, if they want it, we shouldn’t do it. One possibility is that they just want to saddle Harris with both being and running for President at the same time, each of which is easily a full-time job by itself. (And yeah, most incumbents face that, but at least it’s towards the end of a full term.)

    More on our side, Allan Lichtman of the 13 Keys had said that if Biden dropped out, he should also resign, in order to preserve the “incumbency” key. I dunno. One thing that occurs to me is, there may be a handful of voters — not many, because most people who think this way will be voting Republican anyway — who still balk at electing the first female President. If Biden resigned, Harris would then already be the first female President, so that barrier would be broken, and maybe that would make a difference to some. Maybe.

  29. Tethys says

    Omg KG, how about you stop hating on Biden? Every single thread is full of your myopic nonsense.
    He is obviously perfectly capable of serving out his term despite your inability to notice anything but his poor debate. You aren’t even an American voter.

    Why would we give those MAGA idiots in the House any voice or opportunity to throw monkey wrenches into the process?

    Debating a narcissist is like trying to have a meaningful discussion with a pig. It’s not a reflection of his ability to be POTUS and do the job that “We the People of the United States of America elected him to do.

  30. Akira MacKenzie says

    According to the right, the left’s “obsession” with “doom and gloom” issues — all existing in our imagination, of course — of injustice and environmentalism has made us dour and humorless. Therefore, someone on the left who is laughing MUST be deranged or evil because, unlike the right who is all joy and optimism, we should have nothing to laugh or be happy about.

  31. KG says

    Omg KG, how about you stop hating on Biden? Every single thread is full of your myopic nonsense. – Tethys@48

    Balderdash. Continuing to pretend that Biden is cognitively intact is just stupid. It’s not just the debate, it’s his subsequent performances and some of his earlier ones, it’s the reports of people who have met him recently like George Clooney (or maybe you think he’s in the pay of Trump?), its the reports reports filtering out that he can only function reliably between 10am and 4pm, and had to miss a meeting with the Chancellor of Germany and send Blinken instead because he needed to go to bed.

    You aren’t even an American voter.

    Well now, that’s a particularly convincing argument I must admit – you’ve really got me there! Seriously, if you have to resort to that sort of nationalistic crap, it just shows that you know what utter tosh you’re coming out with. The ability of the US president to function whenever required is relevant to the whole world, because he (or hopefully soon, she) is in charge of weapons that could destroy civilization and most of humanity. Grow up.

    Debating a narcissist is like trying to have a meaningful discussion with a pig.

    And that’s a particularly stupid excuse for his hopeless and embarrassing performance. He should have been able to get his own points over succinctly, and nail the most egregious of Trump’s lies. And if it was stupid to try and debate Trump, why the fuck did he (or those around him) insist on doing so?

  32. KG says

    BTW, any hatred I have for Biden is not because he’s in the early stages of dementia – indeed, that could be regarded as something of a mitigating factor for his enabling of genocide.

  33. says

    @KG
    You hate Biden for things. That’s gossip by non-professionals motivated by who knows what. Those aren’t diagnostic criteria by someone familiar with Biden’s medical history. I can’t even tell what cherry-picked observations go into what specific claim, and it wouldn’t be anyone’s job to take the claims and observations seriously, it’s all on the people with the feelings about Biden.

    And stupid is a nonsense word, history’s failed mental terminology.

  34. Howard Brazee says

    Trump doesn’t have a sense of humor. He doesn’t laugh. He smirks. His smirks are those of a bully showing his superiority over who he bullies.

  35. says

    House Republicans say Biden must resign after ending reelection campaign

    If Biden did that, then the VP slot would be vacant, and Harris would have to appoint a VP — whom House Republicans, at least, would refuse to confirm. That would leave us with no VP, so any bunch of armed Christofascists would be able — if not INVITED in a wink-wink-nudge-nudge sort of way — to take a shot at Harris and thus make House Speaker Johnson our next president.

  36. says

    KG: I’m pretty disappointed at Biden’s response to Ivanyahu’s recent genocidal actions too — but what, specifically, could he do to stop it? It’s not like Ivanyahu really listens to American criticisms.

  37. says

    Some people’s laughter gets on my nerves; but not Harris’s, at least not the part of that video I listened to. It basically sounded like a normal woman laughing normally. ANYONE’s laughter would probably be irritating to me, if I had to listen to many clips of it strung together, out of context, into an audio track lasting much longer than most people normally laugh. I wouldn’t want to hear such a compilation of my laughter, and I’m guessing Harris wouldn’t want to listen to the video above any more than she has to.

  38. Akira MacKenzie says

    I confess, I’m not a fan on the Dem’s militant centrism and opposition to giving capitalism the heave-ho. I was only voting Democrat because this capitalist shithole of a country doesn’t have a viable socialist option. Also, I thought that dropping Biden this late in the election year would be the end. However, given the reaction she’s received so far, I’m genuinely feeling better optimistic about the prospect of a Harris victory.

    Of course, there’s always a chance she’ll eventually disappoint me like Obama and Biden eventually did, but at least her foul ups won’t endanger civilization as Trump’s would.

  39. StevoR says

    @23. Hemidactylus : “drksky – Dukakis was the guy in the tank photo op I think.”

    Correct :

    The image of Dukakis wearing a helmet while riding the tank was ridiculed by Bush and the media. The following week, a poll found that 25 percent of respondents said they were less likely to support him because of the tank ride.[43] Footage of Dukakis in the tank was used in a television ad by the Bush campaign, …(snip).. The phrase “Dukakis in the tank” remains a shorthand for backfired public relations outings.[45] In 2008, when asked about the photograph, Dukakis said “Should I have been in the tank? Probably not, in retrospect. But these days when people ask me, ‘Did you get here in a tank?’ I always respond by saying, ‘No, and I’ve never thrown up all over the Japanese prime minister’.”

    Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Dukakis#Tank_photograph

    Of course, we’d later see Dubya the Lesser Bush flying a jet plane in to say “Mission accomplished” in Iraq.

  40. StevoR says

    ^ .. which also got some ridicule but not nearly as much as it deserved – especially in hindsight. Of course he was already POTUS then. The banner deservedly perhaps got more.

    @35. Recursive Rabbit : Cheers! Now owrrries and glad to hear that.

    @47. Nemo : “More on our side, Allan Lichtman of the 13 Keys had said that if Biden dropped out, he should also resign, in order to preserve the “incumbency” key. I dunno.”

    I dunno either but I have recently discovered Lichtman & his methodology her e has a very impressive record and IMHON makes him well worth listening to. He’s got a new clip here Can Kamala Win??? | Lichtman Live #60 which goes for an hour and ten minutes and which I haven’t yet had time to see myself FWIW.

  41. KG says

    Brony,
    With or without the correction @53, your #52 makes no sense. And the meaning of “stupid” is quite clear. Like to try again?

    KG: I’m pretty disappointed at Biden’s response to Ivanyahu’s recent genocidal actions too — but what, specifically, could he do to stop it? – Raging Bee@56

    Cut off arms supplies. Indeed, he is, as I’ve pointed out before, legally obliged to do so: US law does not permit supplying arms to any state that is obstructing American humanitarian aid, which Israel has been doing since the start of its campaign of destruction and starvation. He could also sponsor a UNSC resolution condemning Israel’s genocidal actions and calling for economic sanctions.

  42. says

    @KG
    No. Stupid is history’s failed mental terminology. It’s descriptively useless. Stupid, idiot, moron…all history’s failed mental terminology. And I won’t be explaining the rest as you don’t appear to have grappled with it.

  43. KG says

    No. Stupid is history’s failed mental terminology. Brony@66

    No it isn’t. And if you’d bothered to read my #50 with attention, you’d have noticed that I applied it only to actions and arguments, not to people – although there are circumstances in which it is reasonable to do the latter. And you won’t be explaining the rest because it’s so incoherent you can’t.

  44. Reginald Selkirk says

    ‘Haley Voters for Harris’ PAC Ramps Up Kamala Support After Cease and Desist

    Just because former Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley jumped on the Donald Trump train last week at the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee, that doesn’t mean her voters have followed suit.

    Haley sent a cease and desist letter to a group of anti-Trump voters on Tuesday who are using her name to support the presumptive Democratic nominee, Vice President Kamala Harris.

    The Haley Voters for Harris political action committee, officially known as the PIVOTPAC, previously supported Haley for the top of the Republican ticket and are now throwing their weight—and their estimated $400,000 war chest—behind supporting the vice president…

    Haley initially declined to endorse Trump’s campaign before supporting him at the RNC convention last week. Haley’s letter demands that the organization stop using her “name, image or likeness” in a way that implies the former ambassador to the United Nations supports Harris…

    The group responded to media reports about the cease and desist letter in a statement on X, declaring that they do not claim to represent Haley or her views on the 2024 election…

  45. Tethys says

    KG

    you’d have noticed that I applied it [stupid] only to actions and arguments, not to people –

    I could quibble with this claim, but whatever. It’s beside the point that it would be incredibly stupid for Biden to resign three months before the election. (The current process is ridiculously long, slow, and desperately in need of progressive reform, but we’re stuck with it for now) Freeing him from the grueling process of campaigning so he can focus on sailing the ship of state is a good thing. It is preposterous to claim that he might go megalomaniac and unleash nuclear warheads on a whim.

    Resigning would give the most repulsive members of Congress an opportunity to turn the next three months into yet another episode of MAGA-circus sideshow, while Harris would have to assume office, choose and get a VP through both houses of Congress, and run for POTUS.

    Biden has enough acuity to acknowledge that he isn’t up for another four years and step aside, and I trust the judgement of his administrative staff that he is fully capable of handling his responsibilities as POTUS far more than the opinion of actor George Clooney.

    The energetic response of the American public to Harris for President is a welcome change from the sexist garbage that characterized the 2016 elections.

  46. KG says

    Tethys@70,

    I could quibble with this claim, but whatever.

    Go on, quibble all you like – you’ll just make a further spectacle of yourself.

    It is preposterous to claim that he might go megalomaniac and unleash nuclear warheads on a whim.

    Which is why I made no such claim. That you have to put words in my mouth shows the weakness of your position. The problem is rather that he may not be able to grasp the details of a dangerous situation (say in a further rise in violence in the Middle East) and respond appropriately. Once full-scale war between Israel and Iran broke out (for example), who knows what might follow. I don’t want someone who is only fully functioning half the time in charge in such dangerous times.

    Resigning would give the most repulsive members of Congress an opportunity to turn the next three months into yet another episode of MAGA-circus sideshow

    It would also give Harris the opportunity to show her presidential qualities. And the most repulsive members of Congress are going to turn the next three months into yet another episode of MAGA-circus sideshow in any case. And if they refused to ratify a VPOTUS, I’m confident Harris could turn that against them – particularly as they are demanding that Biden resign the presidency.

    Biden has enough acuity to acknowledge that he isn’t up for another four years and step aside, and I trust the judgement of his administrative staff that he is fully capable of handling his responsibilities as POTUS far more than the opinion of actor George Clooney.

    That’s the same Biden, and the same administrative staff, who were convinced up until a few days ago that he could beat Trump and serve another four years (or if they weren’t really convinced of that, they had no business putting him forward as candidate). I have no confidence in their judgement at all. Biden eventually stepped aside because he had lost the confidence of the Democratic leadership and other members of Congress; if he had stayed, more and more of them would have come out publicly urging him to step aside.

    The energetic response of the American public to Harris for President is a welcome change from the sexist garbage that characterized the 2016 elections.

    It is indeed; and I was saying Biden must stand down and hand over to Harris as candidate while most commenters here were saying the opposite.

  47. Tethys says

    KG

    I’m confident Harris could turn that against them – particularly as they are demanding that Biden resign the presidency.

    No, it would hand the assholes in Congress that invited /just stood up and applauded Netanyahu a chance to create mayhem with the election.

    You did in fact state that Biden needs to resign because he might use nuclear weapons back at 50, so stop claiming that I’m putting words in your mouth. The further fact that you are pushing the MAGA narrative of Biden might be a clue that it’s a really stupid idea.

    Speaking of weakness, your insistence on proving your dominance rather than owning your tosh is noted.

  48. says

    None of us really know, but I honestly think Biden’s fine. I think he sometimes doesn’t present as fine. He had a stutter, he’s never been especially eloquent, and he’s always been prone to verbal gaffes; and his age, a grueling campaign schedule and the associated pressures, and being sick recently made all of that worse. (As others elsewhere have pointed out, Trump’s actual cognitive decline is exacerbating his dark triad traits, which are vastly more dangerous than any of Biden’s issues.) He’s also very thin and his gait has become stiff. But none of this is strong evidence of real cognitive issues, and there are other data points. So I don’t know, but I’m not convinced he’s “only fully functioning half the time” or can’t do the job.

    But I could be wrong. :)

    (FDR was dying during his 1944 candidacy, incidentally.)

  49. says

    (I should note that I didn’t watch the debate, or really even see any clips, while I did watch the SOTU, his NATO press conference, and a prepared speech after that, so I could well be underestimating how bad that event was.)

  50. says

    I do not recall any news clip, any televised appearance, any series of photos, anything that includes Donald Trump engaging in laughter.

    He smiles every once in a while. Even then, it is a grin of triumph, a smug appreciation of victory in his own zero-sum world, the smile of a winner who has forced someone else into losing.

  51. KG says

    Tethys@72

    No, it would hand the assholes in Congress that invited /just stood up and applauded Netanyahu a chance to create mayhem with the election.

    It’s absolutely fucking bizarre that you choose events involving Netanyahu for your example, when it’s obvious to anyone not determined not to see it that Netanyahu has Biden wrapped round his little finger. Harris might (I emphasize might) stand up to him, tell him he agrees an immediate ceasefire or arms supplies and diplomatic cover stop. It’s clear at any rate that Biden won’t do any such thing.

    You did in fact state that Biden needs to resign because he might use nuclear weapons back at 50, so stop claiming that I’m putting words in your mouth.

    No, I didn’t. I said because he’s in charge of those weapons. The words you put in my mouth were:

    he might go megalomaniac and unleash nuclear warheads on a whim.

    I said nothing of the sort. There are many other reasons than that he might use them that it’s vital the person in charge of such weapons be fully cognitively sound. If he’s not, he might threaten to use them at a point where that would greatly increase the danger of another power using them, someone else might seize control of them while he’s incapacitated, he might compromise security around them so non-state actors could get hold of them…
    So, stop putting words in my mouth, and lying about it afterwards.

    The further fact that you are pushing the MAGA narrative of Biden might be a clue that it’s a really stupid idea.

    You do realise that the fact that it’s a “MAGA narrative” does not actually mean it’s false, I hope. But in any case, plenty of non-MAGA people, including Democratic Rep. Seth Moulton, who says Biden failed to recognise him despite knowing him well, have drawn attention to his problems – which are in any case obvious to anyone who isn’t determined not to recognise them.

    SC@73,
    I watched as much of the debate as I could bear to, his NATO press conference, and the interviews with Stephanopoulos and Holt. In all the last three he got involved in complicated, wandering sentences and failed to finish them, trailing off and ending with “Anyway…” as he lost his train of thought. The president of the USA needs to be able to hold complex thoughts in mind, and express them clearly, in a reliable way. Biden was able to do that in 2020 (although there were already comments that he was not the man of a few years before that). You can see the Biden of the 2020 campaign being interviewed here – go to 5.30.

  52. Tethys says

    @KG
    And yet “Biden needs to step down because argylbargl Iran and nuclear weapons” is your argument, so I will continue to tell you to pipe down. Your opinion doesn’t actually matter, my vote does. You think Harris should assume office and campaign simultaneously to prove herself to fascists? Are ye daft?

    Biden is wrapped around Netanyahu’s pinky is an especially stupid claim, but what can be expected from a crabby old man who insisted that Treaties aren’t legally binding.

  53. KG says

    Tethys@79,

    And yet “Biden needs to step down because argylbargl Iran and nuclear weapons” is your argument

    You just can’t stop lying, can you? Unlike Biden, I am able to express myself clearly, and have done so. But leaving that aside, are you:
    1) Claiming Biden is in fact fully functional cognitively.
    or
    2) Admitting he isn’t, but saying it doesn’t matter?

    If (1) I’d say you’re deluding yourself. Have you watched the extract from his 2020 interview which I linked to @78? Because the contrast with any recent unscripted appearance is huge. If (2), I’d be interested in how you defend that bizarre opinion. In fact I suspect the answer is:
    (3) You are avoiding commiting yourself to either (1) or (2), because you know you can’t defend either.

    Your opinion doesn’t actually matter, my vote does.

    Again the “I’m an American, strut strut strut” nonsense. But if my opinion doesn’t matter, why are you arguing with me?

    You think Harris should assume office and campaign simultaneously to prove herself to fascists? Are ye daft?

    I clearly have considerably more confidence in Harris than you do. But the people she’d be proving herself to are those who either might or might not vote for her – fascists will not be doing so. She’d have the opportunity to look presidential.

    Biden is wrapped around Netanyahu’s pinky is an especially stupid claim

    So, show me an instance where Netanyahu has refrained from any course of action he intended at Biden’s bidding, or been punished for not doing so.

  54. zetopan says

    Of course, Kamala Harris, as a black woman prosecutor, does not have the reich kind of laugh; only reich wing perpetual moron Tucker Carlson knows how to laugh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6gvuaeMHyc

    /S (for the perpetually perplexed, although they will still be unlikely to understand)

  55. says

    KG @ #78:

    I watched as much of the debate as I could bear to, his NATO press conference, and the interviews with Stephanopoulos and Holt. In all the last three he got involved in complicated, wandering sentences and failed to finish them, trailing off and ending with “Anyway…” as he lost his train of thought.

    Hm. In the press conference, his answers were mostly lucid and clear. I have noticed the “Anyway…” thing over the past year or so, along with “No, I really mean that” and other repeated phrases. I’m not sure exactly what’s going on. I think they might be verbal tics that have emerged as he’s become more self-conscious of his verbal issues in high-pressure situations. Over the past few years, he’s said things somewhat rashly to reporters and then almost immediately apologized. I think he’s trying to be so careful about not being reactive or going off and saying the wrong thing that he becomes more nervous and then speaks less well which makes him more nervous and self-conscious, in a sort of vicious cycle. Or he could be losing his train of thought – it’s possible.

    The president of the USA needs to be able to hold complex thoughts in mind,…

    Yes.

    and express them clearly, in a reliable way.

    Meh. I give people much more slack on verbal fluency. It’s not really a skill presidents need that much on the job, and just in general – as someone who’s not a terrible speaker but a much better writer (in English, not to speak of other languages!) – I’m much more oriented to writing than speaking.

    Biden was able to do that in 2020 (although there were already comments that he was not the man of a few years before that). You can see the Biden of the 2020 campaign being interviewed here – go to 5.30.

    I only watched a bit from 5:30. There’s a difference between then and now in his speech and manner, for sure. As an examination of his alleged cognitive decline, though, it’s not worth much. First, cherry-picked clips aren’t convincing: I could pick some clips from the NATO presser (and definitely from the SOTU) and they’d be as coherent as the one they provide from 2020.

    Second, I don’t like that they’re claiming he said “the goodest job.” It’s evident to me that he was saying (or trying to say) “as good a job.” That plainly makes sense with the rest of the sentence: “…as good a job as I know I can do.” (Indeed, the post he has up at 7:08 has transcribed it that way right above the video!) It’s just extremely ungenerous, to the point that I don’t trust their presentation. Biden’s voice is much weaker, and there were moments last night when it was mumbly and soft (he’s also recovering from COVID!) and I couldn’t immediately understand what he was saying, but I did a few seconds later.

    I guess I’m waiting to see how he is at the convention, when he’ll (with any luck) be healthy, be less stressed and probably less self-conscious, and be in a more social environment (more like the SOTU) where he tends to be at his best. Speaking of which, I don’t think he has so many problems in, like, his conversations with his aides or with world leaders. I can’t imagine that if he did his staff would have been so eager for the June debate. I’ll also say that his sense of purpose and response to data in this episode argue for cognitive wellness. (I read a comment at Daily Kos that said something like “Biden recognizes the stakes of this election, unlike tens of millions of Americans,” which is absolutely true. I would rather have someone with consistent humility and moral and political clarity than someone verbally dexterous without them.) As does his handling (also an emotional marvel) of this withdrawal from the race and passing of the torch. It’s one of the most impressive political feats, if not the most, I’ve ever seen – it exceeded my wildest expectations of how any of this could go down. And there were some allegedly cognitively able pundits and politicians offering amazingly stupid suggestions for what the Democrats should do!

    But as I said before, I could be wrong and there’s cognitive decline. I don’t know.

  56. KG says

    SC@82,

    I give people much more slack on verbal fluency. It’s not really a skill presidents need that much on the job

    Surely interacting with foreign leaders (particularly those who speak fluent English, as many do) is an important part of the job, as are press conferences. The president needs not only to be on top of things, but to give the impression of being on top of them.

    Incidentally, having listened to the passage again, I agree Biden didn’t say “the goodest job”.