Oh god, two hours of anything on YouTube is absolutely deadly, but in this one, he absolutely shreds Kellie-Jay Keen AKA Posey Parker. You can’t listen to this without realizing that yes, she is a horrible anti-feminist Nazi sympathizer, and you can’t possibly argue against it.
Also, if anyone asks you to name one thing that makes JK Rowling a raging fascist TERF, thanks to this video, you can just point to her promise to use her wealth to shield Kellie-Jay Keen.
Fortunately, it’s mainly just the guy talking, so play it on your headphones like it’s a podcast while you get other stuff done.
Thank you. Let the baddies discredit themselves in debates. Nazis are dumb and should be encouraged to expose their stupidity.
OT
Leaving the Holocene?
A sediment layer with a plutonium spike in a Canadian lake has been chosen as the site defining the beginning of the Antropocene.
And we all know how safe it is to live in transitions between geological epochs.
(I know it is not an “epoch” in geology but never mind)
And now back to the thread. Nazis. They are still considered bad, right? Right?
birgerjohansson, thank you ever so much for your out of topic reference to something that’s prominent in the news media. Proves you too can read headlines.
Historical Nazis are historical, Nazism as a generic term for that type of political stance remains. It is considered bad by those who oppose it, but it is also considered good by those who support it. So, sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Not be confused with the actress.
So she supports Ukraine, I suppose? Ukraine notably being trans-hostile and Nazi-harboring.
Just to be clear, no connection to Parker Posey the actress right?
@Drew, Are you suggesting that everyone who supports Ukraine is transphobic and pro-Nazi? I would like to politely invite you to go fuck yourself.
@ 3. Drew : I’ll rudely tell you to go fuck yourself.
You do know Russia is a fascist state that has helped nazism spread and hosts a lot of nazis as well as encouraging them elsewhere right?
Also talk about off-topic threadjacks..
[Artor, the sarcasm was not heavy enough for you, evidently — I mean, it was trolling, but even so]
[You too, StevoR]
cf. https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/the-facts-on-de-nazifying-ukraine/
@ 4
Yeah, definitely not the same person.
John Morales @2
I was making a sarcastic reference to a former president who thought there was good people on both sides.
Also, a certain US senator does not think white supremacists are racist so we are in total moral relativism territory.
And no, I do not have access to US newspapers, only whatever that is available online to non-subscribers.
Being so fucked that we are in a new geological era defined by how much we have fucked up the world might be considered an “emergency” that needs being shouted out from the rooftops.
birgerjohansson, I did answer your question.
If you say so.
I thought the topic was some person about whom I’d never before been aware being subject to a two-hour video about how they supposedly are a horrible anti-feminist Nazi sympathizer, not about some former President.
It’s super-prevalent outside USA newspapers; I saw it on ABC (Oz). I saw it in the Guardian (UK), I saw it in El Pais (Spain), and more.
(It’s in the news. You bringing up news headlines in whatever thread is most recent is a known thing, but my reactionto it apparently is not)
Oceanoxia on this very network is all about that.
And, by the way, it’s nothing new — the Anthropocene is the nominal term.
BTW as gender dysphoria is a real thing that is caused during embryonic development (and not a mental health thing, nor something you can be ‘brainwashed’ into) this is a fact that needs to be repeated again and again, overwhelming the noise from Fox News and other purveyors of nonsense.
(I am not certain if we can ever reach the low-information demography, they still think all black people are into welfare fraud 40 years after Reagan lied about it)
We need to be more persistent than the eejits and the professional liars. Persistent like that mythical Greek who rolled a huge stone up a hill over and over again.
birgerjohansson, are you sure you’re discussing the topic at hand?
PZ: “Oh god, two hours of anything on YouTube is absolutely deadly, but in this one, he absolutely shreds Kellie-Jay Keen AKA Posey Parker.”
You: “BTW as gender dysphoria is a real thing that is caused during embryonic development”
I can persist, though I don’t need to.
PS (can’t resist)
Sisyphus.
You clearly don’t get the gist of the story, which is that the rolling is a punishment, and that it will be a futile endeavor forever more.
Here’s a story about anti-trans influencer (whatever the fuck that is) Tania Joy Gibson and her trans son Renton. Turns out hypocrisy is a feature of transphobia, and Christianity, and not a bug.
John Morales @ 14, thanks for catching that swiftly.
I loathe it when someone fucks up a reference and basically tries to 180 degree it.
I imagine birgerjohansson would instead prefer Pyrrhic victories.
I once had the pleasure of meeting Ms. Posey Parker in the comments thread of a blog. I wasn’t aware of her reputation at the time, so I dismissed her as just one more TERF. Which she is. No matter your reputation, a TERF is a TERF.
There was one guy who was trying to defend her. “She’s one of the foremost somethings-or-other.” I wasn’t impressed. I’ve never been impressed by somethings-or-other, foremost or otherwise. This was the guy who asserted that if a trans person went into a coma, presumably they wouldn’t be trans any more. This is the sort of opposition we’re facing.
I like Shaun’s stuff, and I agree that it is important someone documents this kind of thing, but two hours on a two-bit raving bigot doesn’t seem like a fun time. Perhaps if I’m feeling overly optimistic some time this week, I’ll tune in and see to that.
Which is odd, really, given that I’ve spent a similar amount of time over the last few days listening to interviews with Tariq Ali about his recent book on another bigoted white supremacist – Winston Churchill. Must read that some time. Which makes me wonder why I am able to stomach it in the historical case, but not the contemporary one. I’ve just answered my own question, haven’t I?
@ ^ cartomancer : At least Churchill fought against not alongside and supporting nazis.. But yeah.
Historians are learning more about how the Nazis targeted trans people
https://theconversation.com/historians-are-learning-more-about-how-the-nazis-targeted-trans-people-205622
2023 and we’re still fighting nazis.. Sheesh. Truly we do not learn from history. Sigh.
StevoR, #19,
He did, but not exactly for the principled reasons we would like. Churchill was an imperialist, and English imperialism was being threatened by German imperialism when the Third Reich emerged. Indeed, Churchill had no problems with fascists who weren’t competing with his beloved white supremacist imperial project – was a big fan of General Franco in Spain, and his views on the working class and non-white people were pretty much indistinguishable from Hitler’s (ask anyone from a Welsh mining community whose strikes for liveable conditions he put down with rifle fire, or Indian people whose ancestors died in the famines Churchill engineered).
Yes. Churchill has no fans in India.
@ Drew, # 3: There are Nazis all over the place. We have them in the USA, there’s also a resurgence of them in Germany.
BTW, I approve of PZ’s Nazi punching policy.
moonslicer @ 17, ah, but the question to pose that individual is, “If a straight person were to fall into a coma, would that person no longer be straight?”.
More fun in person, to watch them sputter as their 3 operational brain cells misfire.
birgerjohansson @ 23, that is entirely untrue! Why, there would have been absolutely no shortage of fans in India were Churchill to have caught fire. He’d have experienced a true gale.
And tons of free fuel.
@18 cartomancer
The two hours is not really about Kellie-Jay, but merely uses her as the lens through which to explore the deep connections between the anti-trans movement – including segments of the anti-trans movement that hate Kellie-Jay for various reasons – and actual Nazis; how they mutually reinforce each other; how they share the same ideological roots and rhetorical strategies.
kome, if that’s what the video is about (not what PZ wrote) then it’s just trite and simplistic. Actual Nazis didn’t make a special point of it, they were just another entry in the panoply of people to be eliminated to them, and conversely, one didn’t need to be a Nazi to be antipathetic to trans people.
cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_Nazi_Germany
(Also, 2 hours!)
@ 27 John Morales
kome didn’t make either claim, you dolt. And there is no contradiction between saying a video shreds KJK and also goes deeper into shared ideological roots between antisemites and transphobes.
I
watchedlistened to it all (wow imagine having an attention span) and then went on to listen to various videos recommended at the end for further information.It’s very comprehensive, well researched, and insightful.
(So probably not your cup of tea.)
Heh. They are my claims, not kome’s. So, yeah, I know that.
I don’t have to imagine that.
Goes deep into the ideological roots. Well and truly rooted. Got it.
Don’t miss Rhiannon’s comments (Intransitive):
An Expose On Nosey Parker Exposes: Just what sort of sewer the bigotry comes from
https://proxy.freethought.online/intransitive/2023/07/11/an-expose-on-nosey-parker-exposes-just-what-sort-of-sewer-the-bigotry-comes-from/
drew@3,
Dishonest little shit, aren’t you? Yes, there are reactionary aspects to Ukrainian socio-political culture, but all the progressive Ukrainian organisations I’m aware of (socialist, anarchist, independent trade union, environmentalist, feminist, pro-LGBTQ+ rights) support the drive to force the Russian fascist invasion out. And hatred of LGBTQ+ people is of course absolutely central to official Russian state ideology, while genocidal intentions against anyone identifying as Ukrainian are regularly expressed on Russian state media. You can learn something about those parts of the British left working in solidarity with Ukrainian workers and progressives (rather than the Ukrainian government, except insofar as it is fighting the invasion) here. But I bet you won’t.
@28 SilentBob
John has a pattern of only contributing insignificant pedantry into the comments section as a way to seem super duper s-m-r-t. Best not to engage.
Kind of makes me wish there was an ignore/block feature here.
wzrd1:
If you’re intending the closest possible parallel, of course, the matching question is, “If a cis person were to fall into a coma…”
Grace
Yeah, two hour YouTube videos have become pretty common, and, even in retirement, I don’t have enough hours in the day listen to them all.
But I find Shaun pretty much worth the effort.
@ 32 kome
I have noticed. The poor guy’s in such a state that he’s been known to post a comment and preemptively say, “any minute now Silentbob will be along to rip me a new one”, and I’m only too happy to oblige. X-D
[heh]
Oh yeah, such bon mots as “kome didn’t make either claim, you dolt.”.
(Go on, rip me a new one! Oblige me!)
A news item for the delectation of drew@3: Russian Duma passes draft law banning gender change.
That “path to the degeneration of the nation” phrase, drew – does it bring to mind any historical parallels?
The situation for LGBTQ+ people and particularly transgender people in Ukraine is far from ideal, but it’s a fucking sight better than in Russia. So even if drew pretends he’s not pro-Putin, and just wants a ceasefire and negotiations, he’s calling for those Ukrainian LGBTQ+ citizens currently under Russian occupation to be abandoned to what any honest person would describe as fascist oppression.
Putin has said repeatedly that LGBTQ+ lifestyles run counter to traditional Russian values…
Is there any decent act or accomplishment, anywhere on Earth, that DOESN’T “run counter to traditional Russian values?”
The entirety of Western European civilization has “run counter to traditional Russian values” at least since the Enlightenment, if not since the Renaissance. The FRENCH Renaissance.