Cryptozoologists like to claim that you can’t prove a negative. I respond that 1) scientists don’t deal in proof, and 2) of course, given a specific claim, you certainly can provide evidence that it’s false. If someone is going to make a claim, the onus is on them to provide sufficient specific criteria for the evaluation of that claim.
Here’s an excellent example of how it’s done: Craig McClain dismantles the assertion that the giant shark Megalodon exists. This is a very thorough, point-by-point dissection of the evidence that we should have if there actually were an 18-meter long monster shark prowling our oceans. The evidence shows that, sadly, they all went extinct between 2 and 3 million years ago.
You could make the same sorts of arguments against the existence of a giant hairy ape living in the forests of the Pacific Northwest, or against the Tree Octopus. The True Believers never seem to be dissuaded, though.
It’s hard to make those kinds of arguments against a giant cosmic god, though. Those True Believers have cunningly engineered the properties of their cryptid to be nebulous and evasive; Megalodon at least had specific parameters and predictable properties that allows one to make predictions about what you should see if they existed. Gods have none of that.
Not really. It was more a long process of trial and error as science advanced to disprove more and more theistic claims.
You say your gods live on top of Mt. Olympus? No, we can go there.
You say your gods are necessary to explain how the sun and planets orbit the Earth? Well no…
I like to think that Megalodon was a four foot shark with an amazing smile.
The Australian Drop Bear God?
Are you saying the PNW Tree Octopus isn’t real PZ? Say it ain’t so!!!
Isn’t this just another example of confirmation bias?
Girl: “Mommy, is Spot gonna die?”
Mom: “Not if you pray very hard.”
Girl: “Are Grandma and Grandpa and Uncle Jack gonna die?”
Mom: “Pray to God that they don’t.”
Girl: “Melissa’s got bone cancer, and Teacher’s sick. Are they gonna die?”
Mom: “You must pray very hard for them, and they’ll be fine.”
Girl: “I did pray, but they all died, Mommy!”
Mom: “You prayed for your kitten Mittens not to die, and he’s still alive. See, prayer works!”
Girl: “Yay! Thank you, God!”
Prove that this is not true! https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/fuel
sorry, but the pacific arboreal octopus is real. i’ve seen proof!
well, i’ve seen pictures on the internet. but they don’t lie, do they?
These also sadly no longer exist.
Buzzsaw Sharks
One thing that article didn’t mention: we’d also see whales with scars from failed Megalodon attacks, just like we see seals with scars from failed Great White attacks.
On the contrary. All the Abrahamic religions claim theior god is omnipotent and benevolent.
*Looks around. Sees widespread and intense suffering. Does not see universal joy and peace.*
Concludes: No Abrahamic god exists.
The doctrinally orthodox Christians have been even more obliging. Their god consists of three distinct deities, each of which is also the whole thing. It was also able to remain completely itself (omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent…), while also becoming completely human (limited in power, knowledge, and spatial extent).
*Thinks for a moment.*
Concludes: Not even necessary to look around to soundly conclude that this god does not exist.
Megalodon, isn’t that the President of the USA?
@astro #7
Comrade, of course * *PZ * * would deny the pacific arboreal octopus … the great pacific arboreal octopis, well known for its cunning ability to mimic poopyheads!
=8)-DX
KG, theists get around the conflict between benevolence and reality by claiming that God has a purpose that we don’t understand, and when we get to heaven and see the full picture, it will make sense to us. God’s ways and thoughts are superior to our ways and thoughts, and our puny little human brains simply can’t wrap themselves around his wisdom. Besides, if you, a mere mortal, could understand the ways of God, then he wouldn’t be much of a God, would he? Just as children, especially small children, don’t understand why their parents do certain things, so we lack the ability to understand God, but it will be clear someday.
Note: I did not say I thought that was a good argument. I’m merely stating the theistic response.
Those arboreal cephalopods are weird, but interesting.
Just watch out for the hideously dangerous Orchard Orca. Apple picking isn’t for the faint of heart.
microraptor @9:
people who are prone to believe in these kinds of stories concerning some scientific conspiracy on the part of the scientific establishment with the collusion of some hidden part of the government to keep he truth away from the population as a whole do not understand how science works at all. The stories involved often have some internal consistency but fail to match objective reality in significant ways, which they usually just brush aside with some half formed inconsistent rationalization and then just flee back into the security of their belief about the nature of things and away from the evil ones trying to fool them.
uncle frogy
In World of Warcraft, some locations exist in more than one time zone. I maintain that the Greek gods are still up there on Mount Olympus*, but in a time zone we don’t have access to.
* or maybe Olympus Mons.
And yet, despite all the evidence I’ve provided to the contrary, I’ve had some very credulous acquaintances insist that ghosts, flying saucers,Lake Monsters, Bigfoot and other silliness MUST exist because “they are too cool not to.” One peer lamented that skeptics, atheists, and scientists “want to take all the magic and mystery out of the world.” Evidently, our mundane world with its massive blue whales and tiny-yet-tough tardigrades isn’t enough for them. They want more, even if they have to make it up.
Yeah, there was an arboreal cephalopod outbreak in California a few weeks back. However, Delta Green ran an op that closed the portal, retired the members of the cult that brought them, and steriled the infested area… or did you think those wildfires last month were caused be a drought?
Rob @15:
That’s what I get for trying to read the article first thing in the morning before any coffee.
Akira, No. 18, H L. Mencken once said that the problem with the truth is that it’s often uncomfortable and frequently dull, and the human brain wants something a little more cuddly and exciting.
@microraptor, #9
Megalodon never fails. That’s also why there are no confirmed sightings, just missing ships…
The “lack of evidence” for god perfectly fits an omnipotent god who wants to hide. I’m an atheist because it’s god’s will.
@artor, #4
We all know PZ is just a shill for Big Textbook.
I’ve been a fan of the PNW Tree Octopus for 20 year nows.
FSM, the internet is getting old.
“The Dragon in My Garage” by Carl Sagan.