Sargon of Akkad “won” his interview with Thomas Smith. I’ve only seen a few short clips (the con organizers are going to be selling the videos, so they were limiting recording), and it was deplorable. Carl Benjamin aka Sargon sat there with a smirk; Smith would try to confront him with something, like the time Benjamin dismissed a victim of sexual assault by declaring “I wouldn’t even rape you”; then Benjamin would say “Yeah!”, turn to the audience and wave his hand, and the place would erupt with cheers and laughter. He didn’t need to reply, he had a claque on hand to howl approval no matter what vileness was brought up, who would howl the louder the more vile the Sargon quote was.
The speakers/attendees who backed out before they got on stage were wise. This was a theater packed with giggling misogynists.
I also saw a small bit of the “Armoured Skeptic”. He stood on the stage reading from a handful of papers, and made absurd declarations, such as that adding social justice to atheism made it a religion, that there was a god of SJWs, etc., etc., etc. It was unprofessional and ridiculous.
I pity the well-meaning people who stuck it out. Sargon won by being more disgusting than reasonable people could tolerate. Remember that next time Mythicist Milwaukee puts on a conference — it will be only for the dregs of atheism.
So this is alt-right atheism, then?
From PZ’s description of this Carl of Swindon’s behaviour, and a few things David Futurelle has said about him, I got the impression that he was some sort of loud-mouthed clueless teenager. He’s 38 and married with two children!
I am annoyed now. I had to google him to find this out, and I was expecting to have to type in more than just “Sargon of Akkad”, so I wasn’t just treated to pages on the Akkadian king. How is this pathetic waste of space higher in google’s rankings than one of the defining figures in Ancient Near Eastern history and myth? It’s just not right.
The chance of me, living about an hour away from Milwaukee, is zero, due to their fuckwitted content….You lose dumbfucks who think that being SWJ, rather than YOU, Is is the trash in the atheist movement….
So, after this, I wonder if Seth Andrews still believes SJW’s are the real villains?
John Harshman @ # 1: … this is alt-right atheism, then?
Atheism Minus.
Yeah but on the positive side, the Mythcon started a “conversation” right? RIGHT? A civil discussion, worthy, respectful and bullshit, right? The organizes are either incredibly stupid and ignorant or they are disgusting humans who do not care about women’s right or sexual assault survivors. Pick your choice.
Oh and one last thing. I suppose we criticizing the stupid organizers of this shitty exchange will count as “deepening the rift” and “harmful” and “divisive”.
As am SJW, a skeptic, and empiricist, my choice is obvious. Those organizers promoting misogyny and bigotry are full of evidenced shit….and will be ignored…
Gack my #8 should read “unevidenced shit”.
God of SJWs? Is that you?
#9- Nerd of Redhead
Actually, evidenced shit read OK to me…as in in promotion of misogyny and bigotry are evidence of their being shit. #5 pierced their bubble with the apt Atheism- label. That needs to stick.
I wonder if the Armoured Idiot even realises that, by this ‘logic’ (I use that term as loosely as possible), he is implying that empathy is somehow the preserve of the theist, and meaningful compassion outside your immediate social in group requires belief in something he would define as a ‘god’. He is as good as saying that people with any degree of regard for other human beings greater than that of a psychopath need not apply to the ‘true atheist club’ as he understands it. It is almost exactly the kind of thing the less ethical theists out there love to claim about us, and you wouldn’t think a wannabe ‘atheist thought leader’ would be quite so keen to make the arguments of intolerant fundamentalists for them.
I wish I could say I was surprised by this, but sadly I think John Harshman @ 1 is right – we are seeing the infestation of atheism by the Alt Right, or to use Pierce R. Butler’s wonderfully pithy conceit @ 5, the rise of ‘Atheism Minus’. As is increasingly the case in all political spheres as the Far Right is emboldened by, among other things, the fact that a crypto-fascist (who is so brazen the prefix ‘crypto’ is growing less appropriate by the day) currently occupies the Oval Office, the bigoted Alt Right elements within atheism – defined as they are by racism, homophobia and horrifying misogyny – don’t even bother trying to hide how hateful their attitudes and worldview are any more.
Openly cheering on a rape apologist and demeaning rape survivors is no more than par for the course for scum like that these days.
I wonder if Matt Dillahunty is happy his “tolerance” of racists and harassers of rape victims is on record? Still glad I’m never listening to another word that jerk says.
I’m in Milwaukee for something unrelated, and I was really surprised and disappointed too walk into my hotel to find it full of the Mythcon after-party, going on now. I didn’t even realize that was today until I saw the signs in the lobby.
cartomancer@#2:
I know, it’s sad. I’m left imagining what an Akkadian “cease and desist” was like. Permanent, I expect.
So this Armored Skeptic guy basically just used a form of the idiotic “atheism is just another religion” argument? That must take some mental gymnastics.
So, Carlgon used the argument from popularity to defend himself, and it was warmly received by the attendees of a skeptic conference?
Well, that was the argument that got him to that Con in the first place – Popular, lol! – so, I suppose it was fitting.
Armoured Idiot seems to be saying what many theists claim: that you need religion to be moral.
Maybe he’s an undercover theist agent provocateur.
Oh but I got very logical dudes in my Twitter mentions telling me that it is just a meme, a joke taken out of context and I was looking for things to be upset about.
Yes, I think the irony of them piling up in my Twitter complaining about me having tweeted something is lost on them.
@Gregory Greenwood (#20):
I don’t think it’s so much an “infestation” as revealing what’s already been here: There are plenty of people who are atheists for contrarian purposes, rather than as the result of any sort of principled or rational reasoning. Much like crank magnetism (can we call this “edge magnetism?”) these individuals are also attracted to the edgiest, most contrarian political stances present in the overall cultural zeitgeist. In a less explicitly Christian nation, I’d imagine they’d describe themselves as “classical Christians” or “neo-Pagans.”
Demeisen @ 22;
You are all too probably right. The current factors emboldening fascists in all spheres of life are just bringing to light the dregs that have been present in atheism all along. At the same time, the visibility of such fascist attitudes within atheism, and especially amongst would be ‘thought leaders’, will doubtless attract yet more such people to identify as atheist – the worst of both scenarios.
You know… If I was a clever Bible-humper, I would point to Mythcon, Sargon, Harris, Dawkins, TAS, ThunderF00t, Shermer, Armored Skeptic, and all the other assholes in organized non-belief and say “See! This is what we’re talking about when we point out that atheists have no moral code!” I’d go to women and tell them “See! Their hedonism is such that they think it’s OK to rape you! They treat you like sex objects who serve no other purpose other than pleasuring their sinful lusts.” I’d go to non-whites and say “See! They use their filthy Theory of Evolution is claim you’re nothing better than animals, just liek Ben Stein said they would! By the way, did you know Hitler was an atheist! Those who’d deny JEEZ-us are the real Nazis!”
With atheists like this, who needs a William Lane Craig or an Alvin`Platinga to convince people to accept Christianity?
Yeah, I’ve always had the impression that a non-trivial number of vocal atheists / sceptics identified as such purely because it gave them an excuse to sneer at people they believed to be their intellectual inferiors.
@Dunc (#25):
The /r/atheism crowd.
@24 Akira MacKenzie
I think we’ve been spared that because the high-profile fundies generally agree with the folks you listed on their assessment of social justice.
But it’s only a matter of time before one of the smarter Christian activists starts doing exactly what you suggest. We will immediately have to frame the debate as conceptual (nothing about religion makes one more moral…etc.) because we really have no empirical claim. Turns out atheists can be just as shitty to women and minorities as god-botherers.
Demeisen, @#26; To be honest, I got bored of the whole shebang quite a long time before reddit came on the scene… But yeah, I would guess that’s where a lot of them are hanging out these days.
doubtthat @ 27
It wouldn’t have to be one of the usual suspects on the Christian Right. Left-leaning Christians should be chomping at the bit to lambast those pesky atheists and bring more converts to Hippie Jesus.
Akira MacKenzie @29
I don’t think that Christian right-wingers would actually want to use this sort of thing as evidence of how horrible atheists are. The really sad thing is that conservative atheists have pretty much the same beliefs about women, Muslims, people of color, immigrants, and LGBT people as conservative Christians. People like Ben Stein or Theodore Beale would probably say that atheists like Carl Benjamin and armored skeptic are examples of “good” atheists.
Akira MacKenzie @29
I think you’re right about liberal Christians possibly taking advantage of this, though. If it ever comes up, we should try to emphasize that there are tons of progressive atheists like us who support social justice. On a more pessimistic note, we could also point out that there are tons of Christians in the alt-right too.
On one last note, it would be incredibly stupid for someone like Ken Ham or Bryan Fischer to use examples of alt-right atheists to vilify us. We could just point out that conservative Christians have far more in common with the alt-right ideologically than we do.
I think the alt-right “infestation” of atheism goes back to the whole “dictionary atheism” debate. Specifically: sure, it’s possible to simply not believe in a deity, and not have any other beliefs or values that flow from or relate to that — but such people are not going to form much of a movement. They’re not likely to join marches or lobby or attend conventions or donate money or buy books or subscribe to YouTube channels just to… agree that there is still no god?
Many in the “keep your dirty social justice politics out of my atheism” crowd thought — or claimed to think — that maybe just a few other beliefs and values, relatively uncontroversial ones like separation of church and state, would be sufficient to support a movement. But while they were busy decrying the “SJWs” for spoiling their nice, unambitious, and largely irrelevant movement, they failed to notice that the loudest voices alongside them in denouncing the “political agenda” of the “SJWs” had their own agenda that was every bit as “political.” Or, again, they pretended not to notice.
Right, time for some follow-up. Mythicist Milwaukee seem quite pleased with the events.
They’ve also released the full conference video on their YouTube channel, and are using it to fundraise for their 2018 conference. The “debate” between Smith and Benjamin starts about two hours in.
its nice to know they wont shut others out from speaking just because it doesn’t fit into this atheist+ mindset