It’s the “full list of antifa members” on 8chan. I had no idea my application had been accepted! (Actually, I had no idea where to send the application, and hadn’t even written one, so apparently antifa has the power to read minds). It’s a very long list, though, so it’s no particular distinction.
I do find their little Hitler-loving dwarf mascot amusing, though. I also appreciate being on a list of people who detest fascists who revel in Nazi sloganeering. I wouldn’t want to not be on such a list.
I’m confused. The fascists do the membership administration of the antifascists?
Speaking of which, it seems the fascists have no members at all, because every single one of them denies being one. They’re all, like, white nationalist or constitutionalist-defendrist or something else obfuscating.
List of all antifascists?
All ~ 7.5 billion?
*starts chant*
Siamo Tutti Antifascisti!
Siamo Tutti Antifascisti!
And everybody
SIAMO TUTTI ANTIFASCISTI!
“Members”? I don’t think they really understand how anarchism works.
Also I’m not on that list. WTF 8chan. God damn slackers.
How am I not on this list?
*FAKE NEWS*!!!
I didn’t make the list. I am disappointed.
Where do we apply? Having German and Mexican grandparents I should be on their list!
I too am an anti-facist. Where do I sign up for this?
ospalh Seriously, I’d wish all 7.5 billion would identify as antifascist. I think they should.
I won’t bother looking as I’m sure I’m not on the list, either. Any significance to the number “1488” on the mascot’s helmet?
The 1488 is nazi code, the 14 refers to the fourteen words: “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.” The 88 is code for “Heil Hitler,” H being the 8th letter of the alphabet.
robro @9: Nazi numerology. Is it 14 words, part of some speech of Hitler’s, and H is the eighth letter of the alphabet, so “Heil Hitler” is magically transformed into “88”, which is a code so impenetrable that no antifa can spot it.
In British bingo halls, “88” is called as “two fat ladies”. AFAIK, there’s no such code for “14”.
@ rietpluim #8:
I was thinking Goulash Communism style: If you are not against us, you are with us. If you think fascism or its ideas are bad, ill count you as an anti-fascist.
Hey, PZ Myers, how do you know that the PZ Myers on this list is you? Maybe there’s another one somewhere. I also see my name on the list, but there are probably hundreds of Americans with my name, so why would anyone think it is me. Sure, it is highly likely that it is us. My point is only that this list is (obviously) pointless, which was one of the points you were already making. As it’s effectively a list of decent and somewhat decent people, it’s a bit like publishing the US Census rolls minus a small list of ignorant fascist bigots. The way most names work, almost every white supremacist probably shares the same name as several decent anti fascists. This is all just another example of racists being idiots. Except, of course, for the people with fairly unique names (probably including PZ), who might now come in for targeting. As the short-fingered vulgarian would say: Sad!
# 12 rustiguzzi
“88” is called as “two fat ladies”
And a great show it was. I am glad to hear that they are immortalized.
I’m not on the list. Perhaps I should not have tried to pay the dues in Saudi riyals.
1488 is Valentine’s day for two fat ladies.
I know there probably isn’t a single meme without a nazi permutation but damn is it always sad to see one being used seriously. Can’t even enjoy cartoon images of depressed frogs or pugnacious gnomes anymore, it’s all been co-opted by white supremacists. Can’t say I ever expected this to be the problem I’d have after years of browsing 4chan.
@NelC 11
Actually, not the words of Hitler, but of white supremacist terrorist David Lane.
https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/14-words
Bruce named it right. Let’s call it The List of Decent People.
I am anti fascist but extremely wary of The Antifa. What I have seen of them, they seem to be a bunch of young white left wing patriarchal, rooster dancing jerks who write essays glorifying guns and violence with photos of Black Panthers from the 60’s with an audience they can only imagine to be other men and they use genderized slurs against men who do not accept their glorification of violence and one-upmanship and who suggest that maybe spoiling for a race-fight is exactly what the nazi fascists want. The leader of my indivisible group was enamored of this type thinking and so I left it, pronto! BTW–all his material were stamped with Bernie’s logo of revolution! Gave that campaign some pretty bad publicity, in my mind.
Being a public school teacher for many years I learned how easy it is to get in a huff over bad behavior, perceived slights and defiance, how easy it is to resort immediately to physical intimidation which almost never works, it only escalates bad thinking, bad learning. Being creative with how we respond to awful behavior takes work, intelligence and teamwork. I do not disavow the use of violence if needed in self defense, as apparently it was needed in Charlottesville. But I am in no mood to join the Antifa. I say to their mindset, NOT IN MY NAME either, since it reeks of men fighting men over perceived slights to their women or to prove their own more toxic masculinity.
Meant to add, there was a distinct feeling the antifa guys were responding to the alt-rights slurs of snowflakes, etc., and trying to prove real masculinity to them. Those who did not agree had no balls, they said. We women never even entered their mindset. It was all a male discussion and power play.
The antifa may fight fascists but they seem to also prop up patriarchy. I’m having none of that!
@feministhomemaker
1) This trivializes the participation of women in antifa movements. The action groups are a lot closer to gender parity than the white supremacist terrorists.
2) 90% of antifa is logistics and support. The people taking hits are maybe 10% of the movement. Most of us are working for the soup kitchens and homeless shelters that armchair liberals so often overlook or coordination legal defenses after police crackdown on protests or training street medics.
3) Individual antifas can be shitty (and I should know as a trans feminist & antifa myself) but there’s no structure or organization. You literally sound like one of those people who became antifeminists because Cathy Brennan is a ceaseless font of bile.
4) The few arrest warrants that have come out of Charlottesville were due to antifas intelligence. They dumped their Discord chat logs and the FBI are now citing it as evidence. Some credit where credit is due, please.
So I dunno maybe you can do us a favour and spend as much energy fingerwagging at the white supremacists?
W00T! I made the list! Most probably because they scraped refusefascism.org mailing list. Fascists are at best half bright.
Is there any truth to antifas being communists? Or is this just right wingers attempting to discredit the movement? What does it even mean to be anarcho-communists? Anyways…theres a lot to look at and to criticize with antifas, but at least they didn’t kill peaceful protesters. At least none that I know of.
what would the public reaction or the hue and cry be if any other group or movement of armed people held a demonstration in which they shouted anti-democratic and anti-American slogans and threatened harm to ordinary citizens?
Would all these people who are so upset by the events in recent days in which counter protesters were involved be upset if they they were anti-ISIS? Would they be surprised at how violent they became?
the nazis and the klan and other white nationalists are every bit as anti-American and anti-democratic as any other group you could name.
uncle frogy
@ logicalcat
tl; dr: most Antifa are commies or anarchists, many anti-fascists are not.
There is, on the one hand, antifascism, that is, opposition to fascism. Those people aren’t really one group but rather a collective term for everybody to the left of fascists, bothered enough to get off their behinds once in a while or, by my definition not even that.
The logo of the original Antifaschistishe Aktion OTOH is red flag + black flag as in communists + anarchists combined. Some 85 years later Antifa organizations are still far left, with a large overlap with the Autonome (Autonomists) in Germany and Black Blocks. Not people the average member of, say, the US Democratic Party, wants to get too close to after the Antifa have done the dirty work of beating up the fascists. And, no, as a general rule organized Antifa don’t really like the police either.
@25 logicalcat
Anarchy is an answer to the question of authority or hierarchy, i.e. get rid of it. Capitalist employment structures are invariably hierarchal. So anarchism supports (at minimum) syndicates over corporations. Cogent anarchists also recognize that possessing currency is a de facto form of power, and so we tend to view unequal earnings as hierarchal as well (see: how different your trial process is when you can afford a nice lawyer).
Not quite interchangeable with communist, but not mutually exclusive either.
That mascot is a tracing (and subsequent severe adulteration) of David the Gnome. Screenshot: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1121455976/worldofdavidgnome4.jpg
Forgive me, but my experience with communism as an extremely negative one, being part Cuban and part Colombian. I am a capitalist, but @Siobahn’s explanation of anarchism is not unreasonable. The way those on the right make it sound is like Anarcho-communism is an oxymoron. They are painting antifas as straight up Stalinists. I’m still not sold on the organization, but anti-fascism as a whole is something I’m down with, and I appreciate their involvement in Charlottesvile even while not being on board with their anarchist and/or communism.
I went and added myself to their list. I don’t know how they missed me, but fuck those assholes – I want them to know how many people are against them.
@30 logicalcat
Communism historically has been proclaimed by the bourgeoisie and their implementation was highly authoritarian. So it would be an oxymoron to be a Stalinist and an anarchist, since Stalin is severely authoritarian. Syndicates or communes don’t need authority to function, and that indicates to me the sources you read are not arguing in good faith, or at the very least have not done their homework.
It is not an “organization,” my dude. That’s kinda the point.
@Siobhan.
You are right, my sources have not argued in good faith as they are right wing/libertarian. So I rely on this website to help me. Over years of being a lurker, now turned semi-regular, I’ve learned a lot and have grown to trust the people here. Communism has always felt authoritarian so I kinda see how they feel it is an oxymoron. My problem is that that authoritarian styles communism is the only communism I’ve known.
My bad. The way I see it it is like being a feminist. Its less an organization, and more of a set of beliefs and ideals common throughout those who would call themselves one. My worry is that just like feminist has their TERF/SWERF, the anti-fascist have their Antifa. You know? Those who claim to be about something while simultaneously being terrible at it. Maybe that hasn’t happened yet and I’m just worrying for nothing.
@abbeycadabra, #29:
Indeed, and if he was a real character he would be appalled and extremely sad if he knew he’s being used this way.
Siobhan–your response to my concern that The Antifa plays into a prevalent patriarchal mindset of men spoiling to fight each other as part of traditional macho proving of manliness, albeit in the righteous cause of fighting fascism, ignored the issues I raised and dismissed them with a familiar ‘maybe there are some individual bad folks’ that we can’t be bothered with because the overall intent and goal is great! Hurry, get to the smearing of me, the woman who raised the concern, by lamenting my supposed lack of resistance to fascism and trivialization of women in The Antifa. Nope. Just as white feminists should be concerned about the way our fight against sexism, the patriarchy, may support racism or transphobia, and just as we should not dismiss that concern by suggesting ‘just some individual bad folks’ are the problem, well, in that same way it is important to look at how The Antifa resistance to fascism may in fact be propping up sexism, the patriarchy. It is a legitimate concern that is larger than just a few bad actors. That is why I am still wary of that group. I have not seen that its members care much about that concern, if they have even thought of it at all.
http://www.salon.com/2017/08/22/tale-of-two-cities-boston-and-charlottesville-show-how-to-fight-fascism-dont-give-the-right-what-it-wants/
feministhomemaker,
Antifia is the right wing’s “lumping” label for the AntiFacist Movement.
White Flour Clowns, Wife Power Feminists, Librarians Against Book Burning, Black Lives Matter, LBGTQ Against Racism, PFDREAM, amongst others.
It’s a very large, diverse and inclusive Movement that organizes against Hate Demonstrations.
Also in the Movement, is the “Black Block”, various “communist” Action Blocks and SAR. These are the people who arrive prepared for violence, and while most are young males, there’s also women in their ranks.
Some groups hold to a tactic of defensive violence, forming a line against both Police and Facists, most also organize and provide many of the First Responders.
Some on the other hand, want to use violence in the streets, as a thrill.
When you engage in both “lumping” and using their term,”Antifia”, in faith, rather than snark or scorn, you are aiding in the normalization of neo-nazism and white supremacy.
So let me see if I got this clear…antifa is short for anti-fascist. Currently the word antifa is being co opted by the right to demonize a movement. And the ones we see on media coverage acting violent, whether unreasonable or in self defense, are known as “Black Block” and are generally the anarchist and communists?