Here’s a sample. It’s unintelligible madness as these guys yell at each other, and meanwhile, off in his own private world Ben Carson talks about the fruit salad of life
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You know, I also hear a lot of nonsense on the Democratic side, about how this candidate or that candidate can’t win against one or the other of these bozos. I don’t care. You can’t say that yet. The serious discussions can’t even begin until the Republican clowns stop with the slapstick and settle down, and then the Democrats can get serious about how to defeat them, and in a pragmatic sense, either of the two Democratic contenders ought to be able to clobber the Republican circus.
“Ought to” does not mean “will.” Democrats have a grand history of screwing up, and Republicans have their catalog of dirty tricks — gerrymandering and voter suppression, to name a few — to claw their way to the top. But we can’t begin to address these problems until the field has been winnowed.
I didn’t watch the debate directly, but I was keeping up with a live feed. I about lost it when Carson said that about the fruit salad of life. Even better was when he piped up during a slugfest to say “Can someone attack me please?”. He got some chuckles from the audience, but it’s kinda his “please clap” moment. It demonstrated quite clearly that his presence on the stage was completely irrelevant.
The whole debate was as big a joke as ever. Most of the time it was just Cruz and Rubio trying dogpile Trump, which was undermined by the fact that they couldn’t resist taking shots at each other and Trump had some pretty good counterpunches. The “questions”, when they were even asked, were all “How hard will you stop the Mexicans?”, “How much do you love Israel?”, and “How much do you hate North Korea?”. Overall I doubt it will have had much impact. The people who love Trump will still love him, the people who love Cruz will still love him, and the people that hate both will still hold their noses and vote for Rubio. Kaisch tried to be the quiet voice of reason, or at least what passes as reason on that side of the fence, but mostly he was ignored as badly as Dr. Fruit Salad.
This election scares me because I think that Cruz, Rubio or Trump could pull off a win.
I’ll probably watch a commentary on the debate soon. Anyway, whoever becomes the Republican candidate, he’ll probably have provided such a treasure trove of asinine comments by then, that all the Democrats would have to do would be to play them back to him again and again, in ads, debates, interviews and so on. That’s the thing about the Republican primary: You have to be absolutely awful to win it, dumb, bigoted and proud of it. And when the general election comes around, you have to pretend to be a moderate, which becomes more and more difficult as the primary becomes more vicious.
1. They have a few more now. Fascism as the new governing style. And the Trumpism version. Promising simple solutions to complex problems. Theocracy hasn’t quite caught on but they keep trying.
2. And…cheating and obsolete ruling styles win elections. They control the US House and Senate, and most state governorships.
One of the truly absurd features of Trump and the GOP is that they are proposing simple solutions to nonexistent problems.
Mexican immigration peaked in 2011 and has gone negative, meaning more are going back than coming in. A Great Mexican Wall would simply trap undocumented Mexicans on the US side of the border.
Besides which, it will only work until Mexicans invent the shovel and the ladder. You have maintain and staff those walls with people which ends up being a large ongoing expense.
It’s a nonsensical solution to an almost nonexistent problem. And this guy Trump is likely to be the GOP nominee.
Kaisch’s problem appears to be that he thinks it’s 20 years ago and that Republican voters care about snagging undecided moderates, rather than someone who represents the naked id of the party and can ‘turn out the base’*.
* Aka those Republicans and those ‘independents’ who mostly don’t ID as Republican because they don’t like labels.
Cross posted from the Moments of Political Madness thread:
Ted Cruz implied that Trump was committing tax fraud and/or an ethics violation by not releasing any tax returns from any year. Trump’s excuse for not releasing his most current tax return is that he is being audited. The IRS said that Trump can release all the tax returns he wants, even those being audited. It’s up to him. Mitt Romney made a similar same point. (Mitt Romney …. ha, ha, ha.) Some of the “tax fraud” comments were made in the spin room after the debate.
Trump said he would give reporters a list of charitable contributions he has made, but he has said that before and not followed through.
Lynna’s summary:
Donald Trump and Marco Rubio yelled at each other. Trump tried to interrupt everyone all the time. Rubio finally brought up some real weak points in Trump’s resumé, including his fake university, hiring undocumented immigrants, the bankruptcies, etc.
Trump brought up the fact that Rubio sweats a lot and that in poll numbers he beats Rubio in Florida … in other words, Trump did not reply to real criticism with any substantial rebuttal.
In the spin room after the debate, Trump claimed that he won.
Katich looked like the only adult in the room.
Carson said something stupid about fruit salad.
The Democrats won.
When I’m feeling optimistic, I agree with this take. Then I consider our stupid fucking country and the stupid fucking decisions we generally make, and I think 4 months of anti-Sanders red scare nonsense could put one of these idiots in charge. To be fair, some Hillary non-scandal scandal could do the same thing, but after two + decades of endless smearing, I think Clinton’s faults are on the table. No one else has faced national scrutiny – on either side.
Unfortunately, we have to pick our candidate before they settle down, and with that SCOTUS opening just sitting there, you have to be thinking about potential success in the general.
Regarding that fake university that Marco Rubio mentioned when he attacked Trump:
Yahoo News link.
@Lynna, OM
Every time I think we’ve reached peak absurdity, they take it up another notch (though it will be difficult to top a guy arguing that you should elect him president because, despite claims to the contrary, he really did hit his mom on the head with a hammer).
The Romney thing is hilarious, and I love that the rubes are pining for a casino mogul to rescue them from the “rigged” political system…
In comment 9 I forgot to mention that Ted Cruz also brought up the court case pending against “Trump University.”
I think this is a legitimate criticism of the Republican strategy to take Trump down:
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ted-cruz-and-marco-rubio-attack-donald-trump-houston-debate
The “four days” is a reference to voting that will take place on March 1, “Super Tuesday.”
Also a problem: Republican ideology doesn’t have much space to explain how to stop that sort of scam from occurring. More regulations? No, no, no, that’s the source of all evil.
The amusing thing about the Trump phenomenon (as opposed to all of the terrifying things) is that he’s the embodiment of all Republican mythology, meaning they have no ground to criticize him.
-He’s a wealthy kid who didn’t do shit to generate his own wealth. Republican mythology calls these people “job creators” and wants to lower his taxes, eliminate any regulations on him, and essentially treat him as a demi-god. Which Republican can say, “we need to reduce the influence shady rich assholes have on society?”
-He’s an empty huckster – Trump U, fraudulent business seminars, CASINOS!!! But again, job creator, can’t point out rich people are preying on the rubes.
-He’s a racist. Even the gentlemen with Latino heritage are too cowardly to point this out, and now they’re all in favor of the wall. The farthest they can go is to criticism the manner with which he speaks.
-Foreign policy bullshit – they all say the same thing.
-Empty bully – all wish they could do it as well.
It’s would be entertaining if it wasn’t terrifying.
LOL. Wouldn’t make any difference.
1. Trump’s weaknesses are already well known. It isn’t like they were at all hidden.
2. Rubio and Cruz are getting stomped by the guy. At this point, they are just throwing mud at the walls and hoping some of it sticks.
3. Trump’s supporters want simple solutions that don’t require any thought. Tax returns are esoteric and hard. Now, rounding up 11 million undocumenteds and deporting them, and building a Great Mexian Wall, that is simple and easy to understand.
It is amusing to think that Trump is being so awful, deliberately, to scare people away from the Rethuglican loon party. Amusing only if thinking goes no further than the surface. It is an amusing film over a whole sea of awful. That the Trump is in the position at all requires a lot of dupes to assume he is being honest and not gamester-ish.
ugh
The story behind Trump’s use of undocumented workers to build Trump tower:
Daily Beast link.
Chris Christie just endorsed Donald Trump. Christie’s endorsement seemed to be based on the fact that he thinks Trump is less of a criminal than Hillary Clinton. Christie repeated rightwing myths about Clinton as if they were true. He noted that Trump’s troubles in court were all civil cases, money issues. And we all know that money issues can’t be criminal. /sarcasm
In other news, the Trumpster floated the theory that he is being targeted by the IRS “maybe because of the fact that I’m a strong Christian.”
Link.
I needed a good laugh.
Could have made an astonishing amount of difference. Doling out one or two damaging bits at-a-time is precisely how Deepthroat and the Washington Post brought down a previous thug slimeball (Nixon). The pressure was continuous and increasing with each revelation. Nixon and the inner circle of evil could not, eventually, ignore the drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, dripping…
An obvious difference is in the case of Watergate, most of the revelations, when made public (published), were new to the readership / public. In teh trum-prat’s case (and also teh crud’s and teh robot’s cases) a fair amount is publicly available. However, that is not the same thing as “widely known” or even “understood”. The need for “widely known and understood” is one reason a drip, drip, drip, drip, drip strategy at high-profile events, like the so-called “debates”, could have made a lot of difference.
Single-point failures in politics aren’t necessarily “fatal”. As example, recall Obama’s disastrous debate last election. If all it takes is one bad night, then he shouldn’t be president. One bad night for teh trum-prat is unlikely to do him in, but if every debate-night was bad, Watergate and other examples suggest it could have done the trick.
Some mantas from the time of Watergate are worth repeating: “Follow the money!” “Verify, verify, verify!”
Republican ideology doesn’t have much space to explain how to stop that sort of scam from occurring
Republican ideology says that sort of scam is perfectly acceptable as long as you get away with it.
Better hope Sanders wins the nomination, or we got four years of Trump to look forward to.
Imagine what kind of Supreme Court justices Trump would pack the court with.
http://i.imgur.com/YS0ancW.jpg
I have a feeling Trump will become president.
I don’t think Trump will win the nomination. It is sadly not surprising that he won in SC, and has broad support amoung the more bigoted populations. However there is no way he will ever be able to garner enough electoral votes to win. He can spout casual sexism, and cater to the racist blowhards and get all sorts of headlines,but he will not win in the election just as Mitt Romney lost the election when he said the phrase “binders full of women”.
It’s the same sort of thinking that resulted in the choice of Sarah Palin for VP based solely on her gender and not even bothering to check her qualifications, in an attempt to capture the votes of women. Result: President Barrack Obama
If it ends up being Trump/Clinton, I forecast that we will witness another new phenomenon. Massive public protests against both parties, and their stranglehold on the political process.
blf @17: I basically support your point, but your statement that “in the case of Watergate, most of the revelations, when made public (published), were new to the readership / public” is misleading. The Post, especially, published enough detail well before the 72 election that anyone paying close attention (for instance, me) knew very well what was going on — but most of the national public did not, and Nixon won a landslide. In fact, the situation was more like it is now with Trump — stuff is out there but Don the Con knows how to distract the rubes. Nowadays, however, with social media and competitive cable networks, it is possible to spread the drip-drip-drip you describe. Trump can be knee-capped, in my view.
I think Christie’s endorsement all but seals it. The only chance Rubio and Cruz had was to prolong the “we’re finally sticking it to Trump” narrative over the weekend. Christie’s headline endorsement has completely taken the wind out of their sails.
In a normal primary, I might could agree with you (as they say here in Texas) but this is Trump, who would have been sunk 100 times over already if the normal rules applied to him.
He’ll win the nomination. The real question is, will he be allowed to keep it?
Trump wins nomination! Republican party proceeds to tear itself limb from limb on national television and/or we will be hearing an awful lot about Trumps upcoming court appearance for Apprentice University. It will be a highly entertaining train wreck.
Meanwhile, I wonder if the sausage fest that was the latest debate have noticed that some staunch (R) people of considerable wealth and influence like Alice Walton of Walmart, are endorsing (D) Hillary Clinton. (who run the world?)
aww…I thought the clip would show Ben Carson talking about fruit salad…
The first candidate to punch Trumps lights out when he constantly yells interruptions will get the nomination.
@23 tacitus
“He’ll win the nomination. The real question is, will he be allowed to keep it?”
If I were Trump, I’d hope the Koch brothers and Rove haven’t read The Manchurian Candidate. Whack Trump and set up an illegal to take the fall. Neither Clinton nor Sanders would have a chance. Far fetched? Mexican drug cartel boss holding some poor schmoe’s family? Better yet, a Muslim suicide bomber –can’t interrogate the bits and pieces.
Odds? Small, yes, but zero… Larger if there were more time to set it up. And especially if there was a clear choice amongst the surviving clowns to take advantage. Carson is a cipher. Kasich might have some integrity –automatic disqualification. Rubio, from what I’ve read about him, is a one-trick pony. Cruz??? Yeah, the holy roller. Have him channel Burt Lancaster in Elmer Gantry. Burn those sinners! Sinner = anyone left of the John Birch Society.
Now if Richard Condon was alive…
@#27, AstroLad
I hate to break it to you, but Trump will give the Koch brothers enough of what they want — tax breaks and reduced regulation of industry — that they’re not going to lift a finger to stop him if he gets the nomination. The Kochs have preferences among the candidates, but there isn’t (and wasn’t) a one of them who was fundamentally in disagreement with them.
As for Rove, I don’t imagine he cares much either. All it means is that instead of exhorting Republicans to vote for a candidate they love, he’ll be exhorting them to vote against a candidate they hate. If anything, he’s licking his lips over the chance to finally use all the anti-Hillary Clinton material they’ve built up over the last two decades, and covering his bases by trying to paint Sanders as a Communist (which doesn’t do much to sway anyone born after around 1970, but will certain stir the Republican base up).
Meanwhile, the Democrats are apparently preparing to nominate the physical embodiment of that one piece of proprietary software you have to use at work because it’s tied to a piece of hardware for which there is no other program, and which everyone in the office hates or barely tolerates, because playing Chicken with voter turnout is just So Much Fun.
None of those guys is fit for the Presidency. The GOP has turned the whole process into a bad reality TV show. It has become a big joke. The most “presidential” one up there is probably Kasich, but his policies would still drive us over the right-wing cliff.
Emphasis added: example of such to follow…
Emphasis added, question to follow:
Can I get your source for the idea that Clinton is wildly unpopular among Democrats?
Most things I’m seeing suggests she’s tied for first place.
And – not to hammer it home too badly – what are Stein’s numbers among Democrats?
Heck, forgot to attribute that. Sorry.
That was The Vicar (via Freethoughtblogs) @ 28.
The numbers, the probability figures … they all show that without some unforeseen event, Trump will get the GOP nomination.
Yes, the Republican Party will tear itself to pieces if that happens. Mitch McConnell announced that he would run the other way as fast as he could, or something like that. What he actually said:
Raw Story link.
Rachel Maddow covered the state of the Republican race for president.
Doug Heye, former communications director for the RNC, talks with Rachel Maddow about why he won’t support Donald Trump if he is the Republican nominee, and his frustration at the lack of resistance to Trump from within the party.
Politico posted an article that discusses why GOP insiders think Donald Trump is the likely nominee.
@28 Vicar
My scenario is a lot more fun…in the theater, or here.
The money bags want someone who at least has a chance win. Is Trump really their guy? He has alienated so many outside his core constituency of (simplified version) poor, uneducated whites, can he find enough votes amongst what’s left? Can he pick up Cruzes’ evangelicals that don’t overlap his base? He has enough negative baggage they may stay home. What about the remaining “moderate” Republicans (all five of them). Clinton or a buffoon –if they pick the buffoon, the country really has already run over a cliff.
If they decide he’s worth more to them dead than alive…which may well happen if he keeps running his mouth.
Now who to cast to replace Raymond???
Back to reality. My wife has dual Thai-US citizenship, so if Trump wins, we have an out. I live in SoCal. That may blunt the worst of Trumpism if he wins. If not, Chiang Mai is pretty nice, except during the slash-and-burn season. Maybe move to Ko Samui for a couple of months. Hang around at the Thai National Observatory in Chiang Mai. I can get a work permit on a marriage visa. Maybe pick up a few baht tutoring math, physics, astronomy. I was actually considering this possibility when I was worried about her developing early dementia and needing long-term care. Fortunately, tests were negative, but the idea took root.
@19: As Nate Silver keeps reminding us, national general election polls this far in advance are highly unreliable. Remember the poll a little while ago where people were asked whether they thought Ted Cruz might be the Zodiac killer? A lot of people simply don’t know who these guys are right now. Trump and Clinton are both partial exceptions to this trend but Sanders is not, with the general public. Some people are picking him because they don’t particularly want Trump and figure “unknown” is better than Trump. They may change their minds once the Republican propaganda machine goes into serious action against Sanders and tells people that his proposals will call for higher taxes. (Never mind that they would be higher taxes on the rich: the Republicans will shout “higher taxes” until people believe them. It’s been a winning strategy for them for decades and they won’t change it any time soon.)
Vote for the candidate you want to win in the primary and figure out how to sell him or her in the general when it comes to that.