I’m actually respecting the way the FBI has been handling the Bundy situation. They’ve been deliberate and cautious and have been trying to minimize the gunplay. I wish police everywhere were paying attention: guns are a last resort.
OPB has been tracking developments. The FBI has closed in on the Malheur refuge, and has demanded that the remaining four surrender. Those four have been freaking out and posting defiant videos to youtube, which do diddly for their situation now but are going to play well in the courtroom. The story is that they’re going to surrender sometime this morning.
The next step will be for the FBI to document all the damage the militia did to the refuge. That’ll also play well in court.
Cliven Bundy has been arrested. He sent out a twitter message and email calling for all “patriots” to go to Oregon. All caps, of course.
After his plane landed in Oregon, he was arrested. How anticlimactic. And how totally predictable. And about time. Anyone else who is a million dollar scofflaw wouldn’t need to incite rebellion to find themselves in jail.
These people aren’t heroic patriots. They’re just arrogant, privileged crooks with weird religious beliefs to justify criminal behavior.
Once again reminded of Will Ferrell running naked through the town, thinking he was leading a whole club’s worth of people, instead of being alone.
Oh! what a beautiful morning!
I was hoping they would arrest Clive Bundy if he attempted to interfere. He had to disarm to be able to fly and would be separated from any armed guards. An obvious time to carry out the arrest. He fell into their trap. Now Mr. Bundy, something about the back taxes you owe….There’s your signature on this contract….
So wait, that moron actually left the one place he’s managed to stay safe from the Feds and just flew right into a whole nest of them? I’ll echo Intaglio that this is definitely a beautiful way to start the morning, but Jesus that’s some weapons-grade stupid there. Did he think they’d just let him walk up to the refuge and start lecturing the holdouts on proper terrorism?
I haven’t read the news yet, I want to know if he flew commercial, which would require him to go through TSA screening and not have weapons on him.
Last week, the CBC radio programme As It Happens managed to get Cliven Bundy on the phone for an interview, and I chanced upon the tail end of it. Here is part of the conversation, as transcribed on the AIH website:
Earlier, there had been a bit where the host had pressed him on the question of why, if it had been the FBI’s intention to “assassinate” all those men in the car, they had not done so. He had, predictably, no answer to that.
More evidence (not that any really is required) that Mr. Bundy has no real grasp of the distinction between reality and fantasy.
I am so looking forward to watching a bunch of wealthy, scofflaw welfare babies get prosecuted and sent to jail. This is one of those instances where they would have been better off to remain silent and be thought fools. All their actions have done is focus a lot of national attention on how they are profiting handily off the public trust and then turning around and demanding more at the point of a gun.
Is there any relation between these peoples paranoia and the classic christian persecution syndrome? Seems like all of them are fundamental christians.
“Weapons-grade stupid”.
Why, yes. Yes, he did. See, being a sovereign citizen, he isn’t beholden to US law enforcement, donchaknow. The county sheriff will appear soon to release Bundy from the unconstitutional arrest and he’ll be on his way to the patriot’s refuge.
The county sheriff will appear soon to release Bundy from the unconstitutional arrest and he’ll be on his way to the patriot’s refuge.
Any minute now….
Many of the major players are Mormon.
Somebody on Twitter came up with a name for the Bundy treason militants: Ranch Stupidians. Seems to fit.
Hm, my brain always snags on the wrong kinds of details. Maybe it’s a side-effect of late-stage pessimism but I have to ask:
How come Bundy wasn’t on a no-fly list? Over the years I’ve heard, time and again, about the notorious and secret no fly lists and how government agencies sometimes like to use them against people they didn’t like too well (in lieu of legitimate reasons). Surely someone with a history of armed rebellion and dodging law-enforcement would be more than qualified. Not that it didn’t work out well, but still. This is the sort of person I’d definitely refuse boarding to, for my sake and that of everyone aboard.
What the hell is with right wing cranks and their odd obsession with the phrase ‘we the people,’ no matter how grammatically clumsy?
#1
For my part, whenever I see this combination of patriotism / jingoism / stupidity, I am reminded of the car full of idiots chanting “O’DOYLE RULES! O’DOYLE RULES!…” as they drove over a cliff.
I’ll bet that Bundy set himself up to be arrested, to keep attention on him. So that he can bring his case into the legal showroom of a trial. Which will be documented and set down verbatim in history books. Whether convicted or not, he’ll then publish a memoir of his persecution by the Feds of that country that stole his land from him, which he tried to steal compensation by letting his cattle graze over federal land.
ugh, before i continue ghost writing that proverbial memoir, …
I see Bundy as going full “martyr complex” to keep his story in the news perpetually, as this trial will get strung out.
@ #12: I first read that as Morons. But that’s two sides of the same coin really…
Because they assume they are representative of the populace at large. They each think of themselves as the “average American”, and thus assume the rest of the average Americans think like they do. That’s where stupidity about the “silent majority” comes from. They think most Americans are like them, the elections/polls don’t go like they think they should, so therefore there MUST be a huge majority of people just like them that are simply to afraid or apathetic to speak out. So if they can just motivate those people, inspire them, they’ll rise up and reclaim America for the common man. It occurs to them not at all that the reason things aren’t going their way is that they’re completely out of touch with the rest of America.
Exactly, one hopes that this will be a case study in how to police without killing people.
slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem)) @17 wrote,
Intriguing theory, but I have my doubts.
None of these loons have shown any propensity to think things through.
The book will undoubtedly be written, probably by a ghost-writer who will take 95% of the profit after getting Cliven to agree to get 20% of the net.
That is just a weird situation all around, with really stupid actors everywhere. Bundy thinks Finicum was assassinated by the feds, but it was an Oregon State Police operation. So it was likely the local swat/hostage rescue team that shot him. The actual video on Finicum is kind of telling. Finicum stops, Finicum flees, cops corner him, he gets shot because “he has a gun!” It was a familiar police shooting scenario, and a familiarly ugly one. Apparently the officer coming down out of the woods is holding a taser on him, not a gun. They’re also supposedly using sponge projectiles with OC capsules when those white puffs go off from the windows. The Oregonian’s timeline is reporting that the people in the truck are all saying Finicum is telling the officers to shoot him. That looks like suicide by cop. If you have all that non-lethal stuff on hand, why isn’t anyone trying to deploy it before they go for the three shots that take him down. If it’s the third time he’s reaching for that pocket that provokes the fatal shots, wouldn’t the first two at least provoke the taser deployment or a beanbag gun? Also, the officer who dives in front of Finicum’s truck as it hits the snow and almost gets hit, what does he think this is, Lethal Weapon? That guy should at least be getting a reprimand for putting his own life in danger needlessly. I’m betting that hits the police report as a justification for escalating the situation, and it shouldn’t because it’s simply very poor judgment. This entire scenario looks like a critique on the militarization of police, and maybe a result of Fox media’s portrayal of officers under fire, but it doesn’t fit an assassination narrative unless you’re really reaching for one.
I don’t think the militia has even a loose grasp of federalism. Finicum’s trying to reach Sheriff Palmer in the next county over, because they’re supposed to appear on stage together at an event in John Day. What does he think the county sheriff can do? This isn’t the Dukes of Hazzard, crossing the county line doesn’t mean didly. He should know that. Utah granted peace officers statewide jurisdiction, reasonably sure other western states have as well. Even if not, he’s on a state highway and the state police are chasing him. They had all the authority they needed to stop him, and their jurisdiction overrides the county on that highway.
On that note, did you notice that Michele Fiore was credited as negotiating the impending surrender at the refuge today? You may remember Fiore, she’s the Nevada assemblywoman who sent that lovely Christmas Card to PZ that he shared on the blog. Here’s the NBC story if you missed it, the actual picture from the Christmas Card is halfway down where it mentions her twitter feed: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupation-michele-fiore-nevada-lawmaker-mediator-calls-no-bloodshed-n516416 She’s a radio talk show host, calendar model, a 2nd amendment junkie, and seems to be really good at self-promotion. Why would a Nevada state representative have any authority to negotiate in Oregon? I’m not even sure an Oregon state lawmaker would have authority to promise anything binding in a negotiation. That lady’s just one hot mess. She’s also convening a group meeting of different lawmakers from neighboring states in Oregon, (none seem to be from Oregon itself), to discuss how this situation was handled. Just gonna shrug at this one.
You have the actual occupiers freaking out like the apocalypse is happening. They’re not going to move without immunity until Fiore apparently talks them down from going out in a blaze of glory. Then the FBI moves in because one of the occupiers took a joyride in a government vehicle that passed a barrier line. You have armed intruders issuing calls for revolution. They also admitted to the world that they had snipers trained in on the federal agents at one point. They’re breaking locks, issuing threats to federal agents, manhandling Native American artifacts, and joyriding is what finally convinces you to move in? That’s possibly the least aggressive thing they’ve done that entire occupation. Did someone’s cigarette break finally end and you needed an excuse for waiting?
The more I read about this, the more every single person involved on both sides seems like a gigantic dumbass. Unfortunately, nearly all of them are armed and dangerous. I think I’m about as worried about the mental states of the state police and federal agents as I am about the occupiers right now.
Yeah.
Pete Santilli, one of the wackier ones, spent a lot of time babbling on about death, dying, and shooting cops. His videos were used during his bail hearing. He is still in jail.
His lawyer said he was just kidding. And how does anyone know that? Sovereign citizens have killed something like 8 cops and the police are afraid of them.
The whole Bundy mob of parasites seem to be not very bright and social misfits.
1. Most of them have criminal records. For pointless stuff some of which is reprehensible and up to and including murder.
2. Of the four left, two have criminal records. One of them has quite a few and a warrant out for his arrest from Wisconsin.
3. Bundy has 15 kids. Three are in jail. (One of the other ones for burglary.) They have a hard time telling other people’s property from…their property. Now dad, who is a common thief, is in jail. Could we be witnessing the birth of a Mormon crime family?
So the authorities patiently waited for six weeks before convincing the armed men to surrender.
But Tamir Rice (that kid in the playground with a toy gun) – six seconds!
This is a followup to comment 22 (Brian Radovich).
Speaking of Michele Fiore, she has been called Ted Cruz’s top supporter in Nevada. Fiore also spent time at the Cliven Bundy ranch when that first standoff was ongoing.
Birds of a feather for sure.
Now Liberty University president Franklin Graham is also in Oregon trying to do god knows what.
Link.
@raven #24
3. Bundy has 15 kids. Three are in jail. (One of the other ones for burglary.) They have a hard time telling other people’s property from…their property. Now dad, who is a common thief, is in jail. Could we be witnessing the birth of a Mormon crime family?
We actually have one already, they’re called the Kingstons and they control a fleet of garbage trucks. I’m not kidding, if all the mob cliches you know applied to polygamists, you’d have the Kingstons. They’re fundamentalist Mormons, but still technically fit your bill.
I would also like to redo my rambling commentary above. I note that it lacks a concrete goal or a call to action. Let me remedy that now.
I am issuing a call to action for all (relatively) sane Americans. We need to take up a collection and find Kurtwood Smith. Regardless of his political leanings, whatever they may be, we need this actor. We need to get Kurtwood Smith in character and get him on a plane to Oregon immediately. We must then live stream it as he visits the residence, hotel room, or place of business of every single person involved in this standoff. He is to walk up to said person, yell “Knock if off, dumbass!” and if warranted smack them upside the head. We’ll literally call it The “Knock it off, dumbass” Tour. Mark my words, Kurtwood Smith is the only real hope for these Western United States. Only through the tactical use of Kurtwood Smith can we regain some semblance of national sanity.
Re: kamarov @ #14…
What they never mention is the “let them fly, but notify us immediately” list. How better to catch Cliven Bundy that letting him go through a TSA check and then arrest him at the other end before he can claim any baggage? Points to the Feds on this one. What’s more, when a bail hearing is held, the prosecutor can point to his trip to Oregon as proof that he is a “flight risk” to bolster the chance of no bail (though the ranch standoff *ought* to be sufficient for that). What’s more, now Cliven is in no position to refuse service of *all* the other papers the Feds want to hand him.
I suspect that he flew to Oregon out of a feeling that the Feds couldn’t touch him because the Feds hadn’t grabbed him. Call is a “Messiah complex”, I suppose. Strategic planning is *not* these guys strong suit…and their tactical planning is pretty shaky as well.
Awww! The actual* welfare queens are going to jail! Boo Hoo!
I hope they have such high legal bills that they have to sell their ill-gotten ranches and some conservation groups can buy them cheap and return them to a natural state. Now that would be a fitting end to their little hissy-fit.
* as opposed to the imaginary ones the right-wingnuts are always foaming at the mouth about.
@10 @23 Do they really claim or identify with the “sovereign citizen” movement? Certainly there’s overlap in their actions, but I thought they considered themselves US citizens and just disagree that the Constitution gives the government authority to collect grazing fees or to prevent them from starting random fires on federal land, and are willing to break some more laws in protest. I think they’re wrong, and it looks like a judge will soon explain to them them why they are wrong, and the way they are protesting by threatening violence is also going to lead to even more serious charges, but I’m not sure that they’ve signed up for the whole deck of sovereign citizen playing cards.
Re; moarsciencepla @ #29…
I don’t want them to run up high legal bills. I want the fines as part of sentencing after conviction (plus things like grazing fees owed) to wipe them out. Why pay it to lawyers when it could be paid *back* to the US government they were stealing from? Indeed, I’d like the public purse to be reimbursed *before* the lawyers get paid. (Think of it as a form of pro bono work for, probably, some pretty off-the-wall lawyers.)
@ #22
More like because he reached for a gun.
You must have seen a different video than I did. In the one I saw, the officer was diving out of the way of the truck.
Raising money, I’m sure.
They always claim to be in it to save your soul but always seem to be a lot more interested in how much money they can get. Franklin Graham is hoping that standing next to these guys is monetizable.
PS Franklin Graham isn’t the president of NoLiberty U.. That is Jerry Foul-well. Although telling them apart can be difficult. All christofascists sound the same.
PPS Doesn’t take much to be a hero to the fundies. Quite a few of them are either terrorists or have criminal records.
Raven @33, thanks for the correction.
The doofuses in the wildlife refuge claim that the FBI will shoot them as soon as they can get a clear shot, but that exiting in the holy wake of Franklin Graham will protect them. If they walk out with Graham, they won’t be shot. That’s their take on the situation.
Fiore talked to those guys on the phone for more than four hours. Imagine that.
@14
just because we have not seen much news about Cliven Bundy you can be pretty safe in thinking that he has been watched all the time and probably had his surveillance increased as soon as the Oregon action started and those involved were known.
He was bound to do something this stupid to make it easy to be apprehended sooner or later if they had the patience to wait him out.
The Oregon action provided the stimulus flush him out into the open.
uncle frogy
I can perhaps partially answer why Clive tried to fly, and then was arrested. As I understand it he was persuaded by a trusted gun nut and Nevada polititian, Michelle Fiore, to fly to the compound to visit his fellow patriots. He was on a no-fly list, but in recognition that he wanted to fly he was conveniently taken off the no-fly list in order to set up a trap to nab him.
This is from an account that I read elsewhere.
@ #36
Oregon Public Broadcasting reported the same, that he was initially denied boarding, but then, after a delay, allowed to board. This apparently didn’t make him suspicious, though whenFBI agents met him in Portland, perhaps he put it together.
Well, I had been hoping this could be resolved without anyone else getting hurt, but this is enough to make me reconsider.
#36 said:
You know, if I was a paranoid, conspiracy minded person like the Bundy’s and their supporters, I would probably start to wonder if Michelle Fiore was really on my side, and if they might possibly be working against them, and with the government.
You have to admire Cliven’s logic: “I have outstanding Federal warrants; lets go to an airport!”
I’m listening to the livestream — everybody’s out except for David, and he’s holed up in a corner trying to talk himself into suicide-by-cop while the Constitutionalists crackpots moderating the stream desperately try to talk him down; he alternates between demanding “redress of his grievances” and angst of being raped in prison. Earlier they were begging Michelle Fiore to make the FBI take them out to breakfast at Denny’s.
It’s like Dog Day Afternoon as directed by Alexander Payne.
Update:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/oregon-occupiers-surrender
Whelp, three surrendered but David Fry, who is clearly mentally imbalanced, has refused. He says he wants a deal so that he doesn’t have to pay for abortions through his taxes, but I think he just let the real reason slip. He’s scared to go to jail. They’re trying to talk sense into him, but he’s admitted to being suicidal, so I’m not sure this ends well.
Kudos to the people on the phone. They maybe crazy, but they’re doing their best to get him to give up peacefully.
“though when FBI agents met him in Portland, perhaps he put it together.”
Actually, if you have read, heard, or watched Cliven’s various “performances” in front of the media,
I suspect that he is *still* trying to figure that out.
I think Fry’s a total wing nut but I’m really worried for him.
on the subject of surveillance It seems naive at this point in time to think that everyone involved with this whole bunch of criminals / terrorist were not monitored extensively electronically if for no other reason than for the security agencies to cover their own asses. I doubt you could find any judge in the country that would not issue the appropriate court orders, without having to resort to the secret courts.
This episode does show the advantage of patience, the situation is being resolved without injury to any innocent people or law enforcement personal
a safe capture and a fair trial is a better outcome a decisive shoot out.
uncle frogy
Uh oh, using Jesus as a role model for David is backfiring. “Chrst died.” “Jesus was only 33 when he died”
Bundy took a commercial flight to Oregon? Gasoline prices are incredibly low, right now, and it would have been a lovely drive.
I doubt that David Fry pays any taxes. “Don’t any of these guys have jobs?” Doesn’t look like it. Who has time to sit in a National Wildlife Refuge for months on end?
Fry indeed doesn’t seem to mentally balanced. At 27 he has convictions for disorderly conduct and drugs and drug paraphenalia. Pointless stupid stuff. I’m guessing the drugs are marijuana and rolling papers or maybe meth and a meth pipe. Disorderly conduct, who knows. It could be drunk and standing in the street yelling.
I do hope that he does the reasonable thing and walks out. At this point, he and his cause (whatever the hell it is) have nothing to gain but he probably won’t get more than a few years.
He just surrendered.
Just talked him out finally.
That shit got really weird at the end. He was talking about the government mutating people with chemicals and shit.
Well, of course not. Neither they nor sovereign citizens are playing with a full deck.
themadtapper, hey, man! You heard about chemtrails, right? Word is, there’s no such thing as clouds now. They’re ALL chemicals. ChemFluffies, they’re called. Just breathing outside when one is visible is enough to get you!
themadtapper:
A lot of people believe that kind of thing, always have. *Memories of the Great Fluoride Plot*
I’m glad they got him out safe.
@32
I’m invoking that narrative because we don’t actually know he has the gun until after the fact. You are correct in noting that the officer was right in that particular call, but with no actual visual on the gun it looks an awful lot like he’s being trigger happy. Finicum would have to pull that gun across his body in order to bring it to bear. Meaning had the officer waited another second or so, Finicum would have either had the gun in his hand making it a very clear self-defense action, or he’d be holding his copy of the constitution and blundering through Article I, section 8, clause 17 like it actually refers to something other than the dimensions of Washington DC. (They have been doing that a lot in their live-feeds). I’m just not comfortable with shooting anyone on the mere opportunity of a weapon, that’s how a lot of young black men get killed by police in this country. Yeah, it’s monday morning quarterbacking, but it does kind of matter here.
No, we’re watching the same video, I’m just using horrible phrasing from lack of sleep. Should have been “dart”, not “dive”. I’m looking at 00:34:48 of the video where the officer runs out from behind the black pickup in front of Finicum who seems to be trying to go around the blockade. That’s a dumb move because there was no way his body is going to stop a truck that big moving that fast. You are right, he is diving out of the way by frame 50, I just don’t think he should have been standing where he was. He is behaving recklessly by moving into the path of a speeding vehicle.
To be clear, I think a lot of these actors need medication. I’m with sigaba at 44. Think maybe we should put Fiore in that category of people we’re worrying about, too. She is… out there.
I agree. It’s how they’re trained. There’s a really good podcast on why cops kill so many black people:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b060zg8g
It’s all about training and attitude. Essentially, there is an attitude in the US police forces that zero casualties (for them) is the only acceptable outcome, and the training reinforces that to the point where even if the suspect looks as though they could be reaching for a weapon, they have license to shoot. The warrior mentality, with it’s focus on the battle as opposed to de-escalation, begins from the moment someone sees the recruitment film.
US police have shot and killed around 1,000 Americans in the last year. In Britain, just one person died that way.
Perhaps Finicum was intent on drawing his gun and firing it, but if he wasn’t, then he would likely be alive right now had this incident taken place in another country.
I just managed to catch the end of the siege as I was walking into the dentist’s office for a fun hour of drilling and filling (“Ooh, matron” — you have to be an old Brit to get that).
Glad David Fry made it out alive. I have zero sympathy for his case or his cause, but I hope that he gets the psychiatric help he needs, not that it’s likely in the US prison system. I guess his antics today may lay the groundwork for an insanity defense, though where his insanity begins and that of his fellow “patriots” ends, is anyone’s guess.
There are reports that Blaine Cooper, who left quickly after Finicum committed suicide by cop, was also arrested last night. Rumors of the arrest reached the final four before hands up time this morning. Sounds like further arrests may be made at the convenience of federal prosecutors for those with lesser roles in the takeover.
@58
That was what Blaine’s wife said over the phone, I don’t think any news agency has confirmed it yet — he could have just been back late from picking up smokes, for all we know. A lot of people were calling in and egging them on in the last hour; the “Christian Singer” (who’s name escapes me) and her mom called in to voice their support, and to let people know the FBI and government agents have been supposedly stalking them — no doubt to shut them up about the “120 bullet holes” that the FBI put into Finicum’s truck without the cameras or any of the other riders seeing, and then later magically removed.
It is possible that Cliven Bundy was so reckless because he thinks he has decoded the magic words to say in Admiralty Court that will set him free.
Wasn’t Fiore the one who who wanted to go to Europe to shoot Syrian refugees.
Caine @54
Have you ever seen a Communist drink a glass of water?
Well, good for practically everybody that doesn’t disrespect public lands for a living! And good fon the FBI for pulling off a long con. No one who didn’t publicly say they were willing to die for their stupid cause has died, the feds have plenty of independently verifiable evidence against these nut jobs, and the American aristocracy movement has suffered a major setback. And best of all, though ghoulishly as well, the unedited video of a man being shot has also denied these most un-American trash people a martyr.
militantagnostic @ 60:
No one ever sees me drink a glass of water. Uh oh…
Come to think of it, I’ve never seen you in the same room as a glass of water. I’m onto you now! Communism was just a red herring. You’re actually… A GLASS OF WATER!
I *have* seen a communist drink a glass of water, actually. She was still bitter about Stalin v Trotsky.
Sigaba #59, The Feds have confirmed the arrest and indictment of Blaine Cooper, with the expected charges stemming from the bungling militant occupation.
If you are ending the occupation, tying up the lose ends make sense.
Brian Radovich @27
I’d pay to watch this.
And a great many loose ends there are. I saw someone comment in a thread elsewhere that the others who were involved in the Refuge occupation and the ones who participated in the Bundy rebellion are probably puckering their buttholes right now wondering if and when the feds are going to come knocking. I’m sure a lot of them will remain unidentified, but there’s probably some more arrests in the works.
Here’s Cliven’s first set of criminal complaints … every swaggering move he made, every ego-gratifying order he gave is there.
https://doc-0c-8s-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/8k2p9k71v5pdjiijnh6v1rrc1fo794ep/2g7gijtm3b1jjh1qhv4vack4fpfh3f4f/1455228000000/15285364390221237946/17353171506391083408/0Bzgzy2KXyxqtSjI4ZWhnY3dlLUE?e=download&nonce=vq8sc8cbtj6j2&user=17353171506391083408&hash=t87bt3hnsfhkj4r9bom942ht2knlicg3
Still to be determined are the charges from Malheur … when he told people he was taking charge,
Oh, I’m sure that the FBI has a good idea of who’s who, and how committed they are, simply by looking at social media. Both gets your ideas out, but it also identifies you. Wear your tin foil hats with pride seditionists. Those at Malheur definitely had a bad case of both paranoia and abject stupidity, so bad even tin foil hats couldn’t hide the delusional thinking.
For your amusement:
http://www.oregonlive.com/geek/2016/02/oregon_standoff_ballad_portlan.html#incart_story_package
:-)
tacitus @42:
I was unaware the mental state of an individual can be determined online or through the media. I always thought that required a qualified mental health professional in a specific setting.
Tony @71: There’s plenty of evidence from the his videos, recordings and background articles about David Fry to support that assertion about his mental well-being. Suicidal men tend not to be well balanced individuals. I’m glad he survived and I hope he gets the treatment he needs.
And for goodness sakes, this is a comment thread, not a psych ward. Keep some perspective will you.
@72
There’s a long tradition here of not armchair diagnosing people. And there’s good reason for it.
tacitus @ 72:
We have perspective. That perspective is to not indulge in ableism, and to realize that you are not a psychiatrist, and even if you were, you aren’t Mr. Fry’s physician, and you are not in a position to know jack shit about him. A decent, thoughtful person wouldn’t be pretending to know all about him.
This whole thread is an example of people behaving shamefully. It’s a fucking pity all those invested in making snide remarks, indulging in armchair diagnoses, and smirking over being ableist aren’t capable of seeing themselves.
@72
QFT
tacitus @ 72:
Oh, fuck off with this shit.
Contemplating, attempting, and/or committing suicide does not make one not “well balanced” – whatever the fuck that means – than anyone else.
Jimb @ 76:
I’ll back all that up. You’d think some of the armchair pontificators didn’t do much in the way of reading here:
https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2013/08/16/thats-a-very-thorough-suicide-note/
https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2016/01/16/a-good-way-to-go/
Further examples of the clean-up after the occupation ended.
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/2_more_named_in_indictment_lin.html
http://www.sltrib.com/home/3531929-155/utah-man-charged-with-conspiracy-in
Don’t do the crime, if you can’t do the time….