Just a reminder for this time of year: drive carefully.
I live where there’s lots of snow and ice, so when I was watching that video, well before there was any accident, I was trying to choke back yelling at the screen. Why are you driving so fast? Why are you trying to pass? Aren’t you paying any attention to the road conditions, you idiot?
The first rule of bad weather driving is…don’t. The second rule is…if you absolutely must, go slowly.
Saad says
Um, the one at 3:05… that is horrific.
FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!) says
Why the fuck did I watch that?
Horrific is the only word.
The death, injury, and suffering so neatly cut out those clips affected hundreds of people or more, if you count the sorrow of their loved ones. And for some that suffering, physical and mental, went on for years afterwards.
This shit, sanitised as it is, can barely be justified as a warning. I fear that it’s intended as sangfroid porn for folks who gleefully ignore the horrific reality that these collisions inflict upon those involved.
Ugly, ugly, ugly.
blf says
A suggestion from the mildly deranged penguin, obviously an expert in winter conditions: Find some dumb male to
sit on the eggdrive, whilst you fly off to Tahiti and/or other places.Big Boppa says
I agree. No matter how carefully you drive you can’t do anything about the idiot drivers around you. A couple of years ago I was driving in Chicago during a heavy snowstorm. The person behind me was tailgating and blasting her horn because I wasn’t going fast enough to suit her. After a couple of blocks she finally flew past me at an intersection, giving me the bird as she went by. Sadly for her, the road ahead curved to the left about 45 degrees but her car insisted on plunging straight ahead. Luckily, there was a guard rail at that curve so no pedestrians or property were involved. And there was a squad car there with 2 police officers who witnessed the whole thing so I didn’t have to feel guilty about driving on without stopping to help.
Feminace says
Not watching. I skipped escorting this weekend because there was actual snow on the actual roads because my winter driving skills are nil.
I have to bus it to pick up meds tomorrow – and I won’t if the weather’s THAT sucky.
Matrim says
My whole city is covered in 1/2″ of ice right now. Still have to drive. No help for it. *shrugs*
lowkey says
I didn’t move from Chicago to Florida because of the snow, but this validates my decision.
Rick Pikul says
The third rule: Delay your departure and/or interrupt your trip if waiting will mean better conditions.
Holms says
Russia, where road and road safety standards barely exist.
mordred says
What really annoys me that time of the year are all the very professional drivers complaining of all the beginners/women/old people who drive way to slow for their taste.
I rather have someone who travels at half the possible speed in front of me than someone doing twice the possible speed coming up behind me!
Erlend Meyer says
No matter where you live there will always be a few days when driving should be avoided regardless of your car, tires or skills. For even if you can drive safely there will be idiots out there who can’t, and they’ll be aiming for you. Too many people hold themselves in too high regards, not only when it comes to their own abilities in difficult conditions but also when it comes to their own importance. Like it or not, most of us can be a few hours or even days late without the world coming to an end.
mordred says
Just to avoid misunderstandings with my post above. The list of beginners/women/old people is meant to represent the prejudices of certain self proclaimed good drivers. I myself am male, not a beginner and not yet old and I encounter quite a few people on the road who seem to consider my driving to be to slow!
left0ver1under says
Where I used to live in Canada (north of the 54th parallel), roads were horrendous every winter. My town was in the Rockies, where warm and wet Pacific air met cold Arctic air. They repeatedly pushed back and forth, thawing and freezing until layers of ice built up on the roads. Most of the time, you didn’t know what was under your tires. It was comforting to hear rocks hitting the bottom of your vehicle, a sign that gravel trucks had serviced the road recently.
In those sorts of conditions, the two second rule becomes the four and five second rule, or often no faster than you can see in front when the snow blows. And yet idiots continue to tailgate and speed. I’ve heard some say stupid things like, “I want to get off the road faster!” That “think” that means getting home faster, but it often means crashing faster.
My mantra was always better late (not on time) than late (dead). But even as a slow, nervous, paranoid and semi-skilled winter driver, I still had one fender bender in my lifetime.
Here’s an old favourite from 2007, a sedate series of crashes in Oregon that hurt no one.
davem says
Back in the days of the USSR, there was no driving test to pass in Russia.You’d order your first car, a Lada, and go to Moscow to fetch it several years later, driving it home, maybe for several hundred, or even thousand miles, I’m wondering if that has changed at all ? In all these Russian videos, there is no sense of anyone knowing any highway code whatsoever.
timgueguen says
Speed is a problem no matter what the road conditions are. It seems pretty obvious to me that many drivers think speed limits are only a recommendation, or use some arcane form of mathematics to determine that 50 km/h actually is 70 km/h. You could be going 30 km/h over the speed limit and some Leadfoot Larry will still come shooting along and pass you.
left0ver1under says
Addendum:
In my winter driving on roads and highways, I was quite happy to stay hundreds of metres behind and let others pass me. I don’t wish ill on others, but if someone else wanted to be the guinea pig, it gave me time to react to or prepare for whatever was coming.
Rick Pikul says
@davem
Those sorts of things happen everywhere you have cars being driven and frozen precipitation.
The reason you see all that footage out of Russia is because _everyone_ has a dashcam. Russian insurance companies won’t pay out unless you have video proof of whose fault it was, witnesses are useless, (well, maybe Putin himself would be enough).
blf says
I know one of those arcane mathematics, as related to me by a motorcycle enthusiast in the States many many yonks ago: He had recently returned from a motorcycle-touring trip to Canada (in the summer, so this is not a winter conditions per se), and pointed out that if you read the kilometre limit as miles(per hour), it was a good guide as to the “maximum” speed.
sirbedevere says
I’ve seen a lot of stupid things done on the roads but many of those clips are so far over the top I would not be at all surprised to learn that the words “alcohol may have been involved” appeared in the accident reports.
Big Boppa says
It’s not just snow and ice. I’ve seen plenty of people driving 60 or 70 mph dense fog where visibility was no more than 1 or 2 car lengths ahead. On one such occasion a few years ago my wife and I pulled off of highway 45 in central Wisconsin and discovered a nice little restaurant where we had breakfast and waited out the fog. That was a much better outcome than ending up as another highway death statistic.
Caine says
PZ:
One of the first things I noticed after moving to ND was that when winter hit, people would drive like it was summer, which I could never figure out – it’s not like snow and ice is some sort of fucking rare event here. Every. Single. Year. . . winter, ice, snow. People really should know how to drive in winter conditions, but no, gotta pretend nothing has changed. I hate driving in winter, other people driving scare me half to death.
Caine says
Last week, had to go into town (pain clinic), the snow is piled up everywhere, snow coming down, roads slippery as hell, can barely see two feet in front of you, near white out conditions. We’re on the bypass leading to the freeway, and there’s someone driving a HUGE truck, deciding to fucking pass someone, sliding all over hell and gone. (The someone was driving properly for the conditions, and I would have thought a truck driver would know better, but…)
Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk- says
My one horror about the road is other people. I’m a pretty good driver (18 years practise, half of Europe including the countries where you drive on the wrong side, two scratches in the coat) I make mistakes, as everyone does, but it’s the kind of mistakes that result in small accidents. But other people seem to think that life is cheap.
CAine
In my experience they’re the worst. First there’s the issue of water freezing on top of the trucks overnight and the drivers happily shedding them on their way. Second, while cars are required to have special winter tires, trucks are not. So a frequent scenario is the following:
It starts snowing. On the three lane Autobahn, in the middle of a hill, the first truck gets stuck. Down to two lanes. This should be a warning to other drivers that trucks can no longer drive up the hill and that they should park safely in the valley. But no, the next truck driver thinks that of course he will make it, changes lanes and promptly gets stuck on the second lane. Rinse and repeat. Within 15 minutes, a whole Autobahn that would still be perfectly fine for cars is completely blocked, the winter service cannot get through either and if you’re very lucky you’re stuck on the Autobahn for the night.
During winter Mr always has a sleeping bag, breadsticks and coke in the car…
Tabby Lavalamp says
I remember an online argument I had years ago about speed limits with more than one person who didn’t think speed limits should apply to them because they are very good drivers.
Putting aside that no, they weren’t as good as they thought they were (the fact that they were making this argument was all the evidence I needed), no matter how good a driver you are you’re not the only one on the road.
Artor says
I learned to drive in the snow & ice of Idaho, but now I live in Eugene, where there is ice on the road for maybe a week out of every three years, and it’s frightening how badly drivers here handle it. Still, watching PZ’s video made me bite back screams of “Slow the fuck down!!! You idiot! What are you doing?!?”
andyo says
I don’t have to worry about this, since I’m down in LA, but someone mentioned tailgating, and it’s a problem here (at least in my eyes). Is it my confirmation bias, or the people who tailgate tend to be driving the heaviest, biggest commute cars (SUVs, pickups, etc.)?
Larry says
Watching those clips reminded me of watching those driver’s education films they made us watch back in high school only more sickening.
Slowing down really isn’t a solution unless you’re driving on a road with no other cars. You can be stopped yet still be a victim of a head-on when the car, truck, ambulance, or tank coming the other direction loses it and smashes into your vehicle.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says
Any good driver knows that speed limits aren’t what you should drive at at road conditions take precedence. Also, you need to understand that the speed on the straightaways is not not what you should do when there is a curve, bridge, or approaching a traffic control light/sign. When you change your momentum vector, that is where you can get into trouble. Slow down before curves, and slow down slowly. Slow down slowly for traffic control lights/signs. In crossing bridges that might ice over, keep the front wheels moving slightly faster than the back wheels. I coasted across bridges with rear-wheel-drive cars and slightly accelerate with front-wheel-drive cars.
Having four-wheel-drive doesn’t take away your momentum on curves or help you brake faster. Four-wheel-drive doesn’t give you the ability to go much faster, but some folks think it does. I’ve had many a fool with a four-wheel-drive pass me, and I find them in the ditch a little further up the road. Four-wheel-drive does help with starts and acceleration.
NateHevens. He who hates straight, white, cis-gendered, able-bodied men (not really) says
I wish I hadn’t watched that. There was one especially, at 3:05, that should not have been in that video. I just watched someone die, which makes me wonder how many more times I saw that in the video.
I had to drive to and from work last year during the winter. I had no choice. It was utterly terrifying, and I think my speed topped out at 20 MPH. I’m not sure how I made it up the hills, but I did. Somehow, though, I did manage to avoid seeing (or being in) any serious accidents. Then again, I noticed that even the drivers going faster than me were barely going faster than me (25, maybe 30). Maybe there are smarter drivers here on Long Island; I don’t know. Or maybe it’s because I didn’t once drive on any of the highways during the winter… I stayed on the side roads, and avoided the news. So who knows what highway accidents I’m completely ignorant of…
This “winter”, what with it averaging in the 40s and 50s here so far, we haven’t even had ice, let alone snow. It’s more like early fall here right now.
Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk- says
What?
Obviously, if everybody slowed down, it would solve the problem. But I admit that’s not realistic. But even if only you slow down you’re reducing the risk of you being he idiot who drives headlong into another car AND you increase your chances of being able to prevent an accident. As mentioned before, I have quite a history of driving safely without an accident. But there were many near misses and the overwhelming majority of them was others not paying attention, making a mistake, speeding etc and me being able to prevent the accident by driving carefully and being alert.
So yes, slowing down is not a 100% guarantee, neither for not causing an accident yourself nor for being able to prevent accidents caused by others, but to dismiss something because it’s not a 100% solution is plain stupid.
tsig says
Morbidly fascinating.
slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem)) says
seems too many think their 4 whl drive SUV is safe in the snow because of 4 whl drive. Not realizing that 4 whl drive only applies when trying to get OUT of a snow drift (from being stopped). All cars have 4 whls being used when trying to stop on snow covered roads. Then, the question is proper tires, to _grip_ the ice instead of slide.
[which reminds me, I need to get my Blizzacks installed for winter driving. December in NE has been so warm, I been deceived that winter no longer existent. ;-( ]
advice #2 (re “to _grip_ the ice instead of slide”):
Remember, when sliding, look at where you want to go, not at what you want to avoid. There is some kind of unconscious dance your hands on the wheel will do to keep you going where you are looking, so _see_ what you want to avoid and _look_ where to go, away from it.
andyo says
30. Giliell,
It’s interesting, whenever some article somewhere mentions the “you’re much less likely to die in an airplane accident than in a car accident”, I have to wonder how much this likelihood of a particular driver having an accident counts, versus cold statistics. I don’t think the statement (about the likelihood of dying in an airplane crash) is wrong, but I think the method to arrive at that conclusion is flawed.
Like you, I have never been in an accident, only a couple of small bumps from behind from people who weren’t paying attention (at all) or were driving too close. For example, I have a conscious habit of not driving side-to-side with any other vehicle for too long (esp. on freeways), especially on their blind spots (it’s astounding to me how many people don’t know this), or on edge lanes (I don’t even go into the carpool lane unless absolutely necessary). That probably saved me once from a would-be nasty crash when a sports car that had been just driving beside me went into the right freeway wall, and then swerved one or two lanes to the left. It’s also not uncommon for cars to drift into the adjacent lanes.
So my thinking goes something like what you say. The likelihood of someone who e.g. drives with a few drinks on, speeds recklessly, tailgates, etc. to get into an accident is considerably higher than of someone with extra-safe driving habits, like slowing down and turning to look when crossing any intersection even when the light is green or not driving in someone else’s blind spot. When I mentioned that in a comment (this was a tech site with presumably science-and-tech nerdy commenters), nobody seemed to get it, they just kept shouting back the same argument that you quoted, that the shitty drivers will crash into YOU. Minimizing risk does not mean avoiding risk altogether, but it still counts.
andyo says
Another thing that grinds my gears: people don’t give a shit about taking steps to drive extra safely because if they do get into an accident, it’s the other person’s fault. No joke, one time I was driving a catholic brother (future priest) and he goes “why slow down, the light is green!”. This wasn’t even in LA, it was back in my country where people don’t even respect the red light.
Charly says
@Giliell #30
Indeed. That is the reason why it is one specific fallacy. One which I encounter quite often, so often that it seems to me to be somewhat hardwired into human brain.
One of my friends told me once that buying winter tires (before they were compulsory) is a waste of money because when my small car gets hit by an SUV I will be surely dead with or without them. He is very intelligent, but it took a few years before he understood why that kind of reasoning is not valid nevertheless.
This fallacy is used all the time, and even by very intelligent people (Dawkins, Mason).
Michael Duczech says
“The first rule of bad weather driving is…don’t.”
We southern California drivers are legendary for our poor driving skills in even the mildest weather, made worse by the fact that many people let their tire go bald during the good weather. But going out for no reason in poor weather is a HUGE problem as well. Years ago when I worked at Target, if it rained we got slammed, and many of the customers said they had no plans to do anything that day, but it was raining, so they decided to go shopping.
Michael Duczech says
#35 Charly, People used to say the same thing to me about my bike helmet. But I sure showed them when I went over the hood of a car and landed on my head. My helmet still has a yellow smudge from the center line, and I still have a functional brain.
tacitus says
Between 65% and 80% of all drivers believe they are better than average. Interestingly, we also tend to have a very poor opinion of the driving of others we know (fewer than 30% are good drivers, according to us). It’s called illusory superiority.
I caused a fairly serious accident a few years ago, and it was quite a wake up call. I don’t recall being distracted by anything in particular, I just lost track of where I was on the (very familiar) road and before I knew it, I ran a red light and T-boned another car. I still remember the horror of hearing the driver crying “My baby, my baby”” as he opened the rear door to his car. Fortunately, the baby in question was secured in a baby seat and was fine, as was the father. All the safety features of both cars did their job exceedingly well (damn all those onerous goverment regulations!)
Thing is, for the next few weeks, I was hyper aware of just how easy it is to be distracted while driving. We all do it, but 99% of the time, nothing untoward happens. I kept thinking “what if the driver in that car at the junction ahead hasn’t seen me? What if the driver coming the other way, suddenly swerves into my lane?” and so on. I had to learn to trust everyone else on the road again (within reason, of course). In a way, it’s remarkable that we don’t have lots more death and destruction on the roads. A big shout out for self-preservation, I guess.
rq says
So much of this where I live. Apparently, speed limits are a violation of one’s right to freedom of action or something like that, as are random alcohol checks made by police. And speed radars, esp. the travelling equipage kind that don’t put up a warning sign of their presence. All a violation of rights and freedoms, and probably free speech, too.
I find it an excessively egocentric point of view, because you (generic) are extremely rarely the only person on the road. You can only be in control of yourself and your own vehicle (as much as that is possible in some weather conditions). And yet people insist that they have the right to be idiots on the road, never realizing that they are the ones endangering other travellers by driving too fast, too unevenly, or by omitting the common courtesy of communicating via turn signals – which means they’re impinging on the rights of others, therefore they should obey the speed limit, etc. (this argument worked once).
I have a special slow passionate rage for people who refuse to signal – turns or lane changes, apparently it’s difficult to find the right lever and push it in the appropriate direction in a timely manner (thanks, I realized you were merging in front of me when you arrived, but kudos to you for signalling after the fact). Together with slowing down, this is a major part of what keeps people safe on roads: making sure others know your intentions. That you’ll be making that right turn, so yes, you’ll probably be slowing in advance. Or maybe a left turn, so yes, you’ll be slowing down, and please don’t try to pass (happened to me once, some idiot passed me on the left as I was trying to make a left turn, but that was a blatant case of ignoring my turn signal).
As for blind spots, Husband recently learned his lesson, that you can’t 100% rely on your mirrors; sometimes, you have to do that hated shoulder-check, too. Thankfully it’s the company car, insured, and only has a dent in the car, because of the slow speeds involved (maneuvering during rush hour traffic). Considering the placement of the dent, I’m pretty sure that higher speeds would have had far worse results for Husband.
Anyway, yes, slow down.
And a big shout-out to the road maintenance crews who do their best with limited resources in terrible weather conditions to make sure that people who really need to drive somewhere can do so under slightly safer conditions.
slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem)) says
re @36:
yes. my experience in Bay Area of CA was that the roads were super slippery on the rare occurrence of rain. That it would be the worst when the roads first got wet and would get better as the oil would eventually wash away. I was always amazed at CAlifornians response to rain, as some kind of magic elixer falling from the sky that would disrupt everything, from walking, to driving, to anything outside “getting wet”. Even swimming was out of the question, as the rain would get you wet before diving into the pool.
whheydt says
Far too many people from states where winter snow, often heavy winter snow, is common ridicule the Calif. Highway Patrol chain requirements in winter driving conditions, primarily in the Sierra Nevada, especially over Donner Summit. Those requirements do serve several purposes, including slowing people down. There is a hierarchy of requirements as conditions get worse, from “you must carry chains” to “chains or 4-wheel drive”, to “chains required” to “the road is closed”. And–FYI–those chain requirements apply to trucks just as much as they do to passenger cars. It is very common to see trucks with a rack of chains. At any level, if you don’t meet the requirements, you’ll be required to turn around and go back.
In the lower elevations, there are two weather conditions that seem to bring out the worst in some drivers. The first is a good rain after a long dry spell (this can easily be six months of dry weather). All the oils that built up on the road are brought to the surface and you will have far less traction than you think you do because the road isn’t just wet.
The other issue, mostly in the Central Valley is fog, specifically a think, ground-hugging radiation fog called “Tule Fog”. Those are the conditions in which we get the massive pile-ups (occasionally with over 100 vehicles). The trick to driving in Tule Fog is to get so you just have solid view of the tail lights in front of you. Keep them there. If they suddenly get brighter, slow down and get off the road…and hope the guy behind you will do the same.
And then there are speed limits… The original (much changed over the decades, but still the basis) speed limit in California is “reasonable and proper”. The second–less formal–rule that goes with it is “move with the traffic.” IF you think that the general flow of traffic is significantly too fast for the conditions…get off the road and wait for conditions to improve.
slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem)) says
re @39:
in addition, headlights at dusk. headlights are also for “others to see you(!)’, not just for “you to see the road”. Too many drive around at dusk, essentially invisible, without headlights on, cuz they can see where they’re going, not realizing, they are effectively invisible with so little light to illuminate their vehicle.
Aside from all my “good advice”, I lapse often, mildly.
EG looking at many traffic signs as “suggestions” rather than commands.
Such as many STOP signs treated as Yield [rural, not urban areas], Speed Limits as “on average” rather than absolute maximum. Etc Etc.
Speed Limits are especially tricky. EG: Speed limit 55, traffic flowing at 65; safer to stay at 65 than slow to 55. opposite way also true, if traffic flow is 45 in a 55 speed limit, better to stick around 45 and not exploit 55 as legally allowed.
Too many take speed limit sign as indicating “the demanded speed” while disregarding the “limit” part of the phrase.
rq says
Also, tires are regulated by law: everyone has to have winter tires by December 1 (though depending on the year, official recommendations to acquire them earlier are not a rarity); summer tires may be put on one’s car from March 1, no earlier (though again, often there is an official recommendation to keep winter tires well into the month of April). You can get fined not only for not having winter tires at all, but also for having winter tires in too poor a condition – yes, the police can stop you to verify this, too.
illdoittomorrow says
PZ in the OP:
You not the boss of me! I have four-wheel-drive! It’s not that bad, your just scared! If it is bad, it’s the city’s/province’s fault for not emptying a salt mine and turning the calendar back to July!! Nuh-uh, your> the idiot!!1! Now get outta my way!111!!
/calgarydriver
rq says
This, too, though most newer carts here seem to have all lights on automatically once you turn the engine on, even in daylight. And considering the rather poor amounts of sunlight you can get in spring and fall even during midday, this extra bit of visibility makes a huge difference on the road, especially in more rural areas.
rq says
*ahem* Cars, not carts. That kind of horsepower isn’t particularly common around here anymore, though they have a section in the Traffic Law just for horsedrawn carts. And no, you’re not allowed to drink and drive your cart, even if your horse is sober.
blf says
On drivers in California’s bay area not handling wet weather sensibly: Many yonks ago, whilst living in Ireland (so quite accustomed to driving in the wet), I was seconded to our site in Silicon Valley, living out of a hotel in downtown San Francisco (a classic case of European travel “experts” not being quite-so-expert about distances and conditions in the States), so had to “commute” to Silicon Valley most days down the highway. Sometime after I arrived, so did the first rains of the season (read: very greasy roads!).
I took it slow, leaving plenty of distance between me and the fore and aft cars, and to the extent possible, the car in the other lane (blind spot and all that…). I won’t say I was the only person who seemed to be trying to take it careful, but to this day, I’m still not entirely certain how many accidents(all at the side of the road) I passed-by. At least six, on a commute of (broadly speaking) 50 or so miles.
robro says
As always, these are horrible. It’s like driver’s ed all over again. Perhaps the fourth rule should be don’t pass in bad weather…visibility is poor, and you can’t stop. In other words, slow down. One aspect of these accidents that struck me is that many of the people involved in them may have been driving perfectly safe but couldn’t avoid the car or truck careening towards them.
Homes @9 et al
To reinforce what Rick Pikul says at #17, when I clicked the YouTube button at the end of this video the Next Up video was “North American Car Crashes.” I didn’t watch it, but I’m sure it shows similar unsafe driving behavior. So, driving is dangerous everywhere. Depending on how you measure it, in 2012 the US had about the same traffic fatalities as Russia per 100k inhabitants (11.6 vs 18.6), significantly fewer traffic fatalities per 100k vehicles (13.6 vs 55.4), and somewhat more total fatalities (36k vs 28k).
gmacs says
Nerd @28
I can attest to this. I’ve had a vehicle seemingly defy the laws of physics by fishtailing on me in 4-wheel drive.
Also, I will never use a rear-wheel drive if I can help it.
rq@39
FIFY
Tashiliciously Shriked says
Speaking of headlights;
Fuck the assholes who think high-beams mean “sun is down lets blind everyone”
Further and also; fuck those high white/blue halogen lights. Those should be illegal.
blf says
Lights on carts are easy: Use the flamethrower to ignite the horse. This has multiple advantages, (1) You win all disputes (flamethrower); (2) You’re going really fast albeit not necessarily in the desired direction; and (3) One less evil creature. Plus, of course, you can see and everyone can see you coming…
I realize disputes and speed are contrary to this thread, but the plague of horses is not going to be solved by feeding them flamethrower roasted marshmallows.
greg hilliard says
I was taking my son back to school in Detroit last January (a trip I will repeat next week), and we hit bad weather on our last day, leaving Chicago. I-94 had a 98-vehicle pileup that involved a tractor-trailer loaded with fireworks, which exploded theatrically. Only one fatality in all of that. But a five-hour trip took nearly nine once I-94 was closed, and I almost missed my flight.
rq says
Tashiliciously Shriked
Oh fuck yes. I understand that they improve visibility for the driver, but that’s the only person who might stand to gain anything with the blue halogen lights. I don’t know if their levels are consistently poorly regulated, or if they just are that annoying, but fuck those lights, esp. at night in the rain. With glasses. So many bright spots all over the place.
gmacs @49
Thanks, you’re absolutely correct. :)
Marcus Ranum says
That first one… It looked like he was following some tracks off the edge. Perhaps there was a People Motel(tm) down there!!!
Russian dashcam footage can be pretty amazing. It’s one of my guilty pleasures.
Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk- says
rq
Yeah, German Autobahn madness. Apparently a general speed limit would mean the end of freedom and democracy*. THat’s why my home country is one of those where I like driving the least. Switzerland is great and so is Belgium.
Thankfully, the view towards drunk driving has changed remarkably. 20 years ago you’d get pity if you got caught. Stories were traded of how people made it home. How my grandpa crashed the car and then walked home and made my grandma lie to the police that he wasn’t home. How Mr’s grandma was the one who drove home when they had all been drinking because she didn’t have a driving license that could be confiscated…
Yep, we used to have a few times as many road deaths back in the good old days with only a fraction of the cars…
Nowadays you get anger, scorn and spite if you get caught drunk driving. Nobody will have a shred of sympathy for you .
*or at least decrease the amount of very fast cars sold
The recommendation here is “Oktober bis Ostern” (October to easter) though the law is fucked up: You need “adequate tires” which means the police can only reprimand you once you get stuck in bad weather…
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says
Headlights should be turned (if they turn on automatically) when you turn on your windshield wipers for rain. It is usually dark enough that it helps other people see you, and is the law in many states.
illdoittomorrow says
NateHevens, at 29:
That’s a good reason to watch it, perhaps not on YouTube (because, y’know, YouTube), but as part of driver training.
rq says
Giliell
There’s been a shift in attitude towards drunk driving here, too, though that one’s still a bit of a generational thing: the hardcore alcoholics in their 50s and upwards don’t see anything wrong with driving while under the influence (and the ones who do, don’t do it anyway), the generations below have a more sensible opinion, though it seems inevitable that you get the occasional drunk teenager with a car full of friends and all the tragedy that results from it once every couple of years.
Road conditions are slowly being modernized and improved, though, which is both a good and a bad thing: good, because more guardrails, better shoulders, better visibility, etc.; bad, because whee nice asphalt, smooth curves, and feelings of invincibility (thus, the newest highway with the nicest construction has also turned out to be one of the deadliest in its three (two?) short years of operation. People passing at inopportune times at speeds in excess of 100 km/h, usually while on their phones. And with the number of trucks that also use the highway… Things seem to have improved, but in the first half of the year, it was a fatality pretty much every two weeks or so.
Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk- says
rq
That’s the new drunk driving, if you ask me. Effects are similar to those of being moderately drunk and people think it’s totally harmless. Fines are way too low here, if you ask me.
There have been some good initiatives here, like offering free non-alcoholic drinks to the driver of a group.
Charly says
@robro #48
This reminded me of a study that found that whilst less intelligent people are generally more prone to die due to accident, this correlation was least strong for car accidents. Probably because in those die innocent people too, not only the idiots causing them.
Regarding headlights – in CZ they are obligatory even during the day, and I find it quite usefull. Because when I cross the border to Germany, there are too many drivers who forget to turn them on during rain, fog or in dusk/dawn. I think it is a good idea even though the overall effect in crash reduction is relatively low (google found ~10%).
andyo says
slithey tove #46,
When Conan first came to do his show to LA from NY, this was one of his early bits.
illdoittomorrow says
Charly at 60:
Ten percent is actually a serious improvement. It’s also less than 100% though, so many drivers will simply reject turning on their lights out of hand, ostensibly for that reason (though when I poke a little harder, people usually tacitly admit it’s Cuz I Just Don’t Wanna).
andyo says
#50, #53
I think you may be thinking about Xenon lights (also known as high-intensity discharge or HID), not regular halogens. Those actually are designed to be less bothersome for other cars, but that requires the whole system as installed by manufacturers, with especially designed projector housings. The problem is that since they’re cooler looking, there is a market for HID bulbs/ballasts that people just replaced their regular halogen bulbs with, without minding the different types of reflectors/projectors required. And that right now is indeed illegal, AFAIK, but it was and probably still is a problem nevertheless.
rq says
andyo
Interesting information, though I’m not sure if the replacement you mention is indeed universally illegal. Xenon lights are a bit of a plague where I live, simply because they’re currently The Thing to install on your car.
Caine says
Giliell @ 23:
Christ. That’s scary. If that happened here and someone didn’t have a proper winter kit, they’d freeze to death.
Larry @ 27:
Oh FFS, it’s that attitude that’s responsible for a whole lot of deaths.
Alex the Pretty Good says
Man … footage like that makes me glad that winter conditions here in Belgium, or in the Netherlands are usually quite tame and short enough for me to be able to stay off the roads until they have been cleaned.
Though the weather was just fine when I got the scare of my life yesterday evening when returning from my Mom’s … a counter-traffic driver on the highway while I was going 120 kph … Good thing I was on the right lane. And apparently that idiot was only apprehended nearly 20 km further … How the hell can you go for 20 km on a highway against traffic without thinking at least once “hmmm … something doesn’t seem right here.”
And as has been mentioned by others … bad drivers will give you a start at any kind of bad weather conditions.
Here in Belgium, most drivers will not slow down when it rains, and the roads are pure asphalt, resulting in a film of water that constantly creates a haze of mist in front of you. I always know when I cross into the Netherlands … there’s hardly any water that stays on the road there and as soon as the rain stops, so does the splashing water while in Belgium nothing changes for the first 30 minutes after the rain stops.
Honestly Giliell, for you to call driving in Belgium “great”, Germany must be a lot worse than the two times I went through it. (That or the roads in Antwerp are indeed worse than the other provinces)
whheydt says
My wife just watched it and want’s to know what the Russian is for “Holy shit!”
Lofty says
On the top of little mountain of my ‘nym there is the occasional marvel of a light dusting of snow, perhaps a couple of inches once every few years or so. As soon as this news is broadcast, all the idiots come up from town to have a look-see, and promptly engage in fender bending exercises. Snow seems to have some special attraction to the clowns it seems. I’ve never been to see this phenomenon, although its only a couple of miles from my house.
whheydt says
Re: Nerd of the Redhead @ #56…
Some years ago (10? 15? More?) that became law in California. Wipers on, headlights on. Doesn’t apply if the wipers are on intermittent, though.
Re: rq @58…
Nearly 50 years ago, I went with my parents from San Diego to Los Angeles for the wedding of the son of an old friend of theirs. During the four to five hours we were there, my father drank two, rather small, glasses of Champagne, the second one a couple of hours before we left. On the way out to the car, he handed me the keys and said, “You drive. I’ve been drinking.” He knew I hadn’t had a drop.
Re: Alex the Pretty Good @ #66….
What California has taken to doing is using a top layer of asphalt that is porous over a bottom layer that isn’t, so the water goes down through the top layer and runs off the side to drain away. It’s not perfect, but until you get a real gully washer, it greatly improves the driving. In decades past, high country roads were made with air-entrained concrete so the freeze-thaw cycles wouldn’t destroy them.
You can tell when you’re in an area of California that gets regular snow because the reflectors (generic “Bott’s dots”) are recessed into the road surface so snowplows won’t scrape them off. You can tell about how serious the snow gets in many of those areas because there will be thin poles along the side of the road, so the plow drivers know where the road is under the snow. Some of those poles are 6′ to 8′ tall.
What I’m wondering about is…if El Nino brings us the kind of snowfall we’d like at the higher elevations, will the trans-Sierra railroads have to get out their rotary plows? They typically only have to use them about one year in 20. They are the last resort to keeping a rail line open. Once you clear a line with a rotary, it’s the only thing you can use for the rest of that winter.
Charly says
@illdoittomorrow #
Agreed on both.
10% is a serious improvement, but it is unfortunately also low enough for it to be imperceptible for personal experience or even at a casual glance at the statistics (variation from year to year/mont to month can be greater, plus what enters official statistics as a crash depends on changing legislative, so official overall stats have very limited usability). That is why I used the wording “relatively low”, not because I consider it a trivial improvement.
There are sometimes serious debates in government about whether it (mandatory lights all year round) is a good thing or not, because it did not lead to immediately apparent decrease in crashes. People in general and especially politicians unfortunately suck at statistics and scientific method.
Michael Duczech says
#47 blf: “I took it slow, leaving plenty of distance between me and the fore and aft cars, and to the extent possible, the car in the other lane (blind spot and all that…).”
So much that. Another rain issue here in California is everyone wants to clump. Herding I call it. Even the ones driving nice and slow want to change their speed and sit right behind or next to you, even with plenty of room to spread out. I don’t want you there. I don’t trust you, and I might slide, too.
Some years ago I was driving south on the 101 from Humboldt County. It was raining pretty steady (always is up there), and all the other cars on the road were in really dense, slow moving clusters. I had to work may way through them and speed up to get some distance. I hated doing it, but otherwise they would cluster around me.
numerobis says
Canadian cars have had daytime running lights for a long time now. On a one-lane-each-way road, you see a 20% reduction in crashes.
The big problem with their implementation is that complete idiots were against it, and as a compromise you only have DLR up front. The tail lights aren’t on. Which leads to people driving at night with their headlights on but tail lights off.
Woody Emanuel says
I guarantee that the Republican Party will learn nothing from these videos.
Tashiliciously Shriked says
Also, can we punch people who claim driving stoned is fine and not as bad as driving drunk in the throat?
Fuck those people. I smoke weed a fair bit, but i never drive high because i am not a total fucking murderous asshole.
NateHevens. He who hates straight, white, cis-gendered, able-bodied men (not really) says
^So… I have a few experiences with stoned drivers (and “driving”… you’ll see why I put that in quotes in a bit).
My brother and I have a friend who, when 100% sober, is someone you simply don’t want driving a car. He is a “I’M INVINCIBLE AND FUCK EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE ROAD!” driver… complete with road rage.
But when he’s stoned (on marijuana, obviously), he could teach a driving course. He follows traffic like a boss (never going faster or slower than anybody else, which most often means not breaking the speed limit, but also means he never gets tailgated or honked at, as well), slows down on yellows, stays in the middle of his lane (that is, between the lines), leaves the right amount of space between him and the other cars, follows proper 4-way stop etiquette, is hyper-aware of his surroundings, knows the perfect time to change lanes when he needs to, properly uses his breaks… in short, he becomes the perfect driver, following (probably) every driving law on the books. He’s someone you want driving stoned, for safety reasons.
That said, I have three counter examples.
1. I have a friend who we cannot allow to drive stoned because he drives like most people drive drunk. He’s gotten pulled over a few times (though HELLO WHITE PRIVILEGE has never been arrested). The first time I was in a car with him, I made him pull over so I could drive… I was sober. He was stoned, and the way he was driving was terrifying. Luckily, he complied (he’s otherwise a very nice, compliant, “I love everyone” stoner, so he had no problem with it) because otherwise I would have just opted to walk.
2. I have another friend who, when stoned, gets tailgated, honked at, and eventually “zoomed” past by 95-year-olds who can barely see over the wheel and already drive slow themselves. I can honestly walk faster than he drives when stoned, and I’m an extremely lazy walker. In fact, I think turtles walk faster than he drives when stoned. To be fair, he stays in his lane pretty well, but I’m pretty sure you lose the keys if you can’t get past 15 miles per hour. As far as I know, he’s never made the mistake of going on the highway while stoned, but still.
3. Then there’s me. I put “driving” in quotes because of my one experience. For the record, I didn’t actually do any driving.
So I was extremely stoned, had the munchies, and decided that I needed Taco Bell. So I got up off the couch (which took a while), grabbed my keys, walked outside my house, and slowly meandered towards my car. I unlocked the door, got in, shut the door, locked the car, and…
30 minutes later, I realized that I hadn’t even put the keys in the ignition.
For the record, when I say 30 minutes later, I’m not exaggerating. It took me literally 30 minutes to realize that the keys were still in my lap and my seatbelt wasn’t even on. At that point, I just got out of the car, walked back inside, and munched on whatever I was able to find in the house.
Between that and my one black-out-drunk incident a few years earlier (which, miraculously, did not result in any accidents or even driving tickets, as far as I know… I basically got shit-faced on vodka and orange soda at a party at someone else’s house that I drove to, then woke up in my own bed the next day, my car [a Chevy Astro Van] parked rather perfectly in the driveway… to this day I have no clue how I got home; I also didn’t have a hangover, strangely enough), I’ve decided that I will only get behind the wheel of a car when I’m 100% sober, and not at any other time. That decision has served me well over these years, and I feel as if it will continue to.
John Morales says
It’s simple: test for competence, not for drugs. Which is doable.
Most importantly: drive to the conditions applicable — and not beyond one’s level of competence, whatever the conditions.
(Someone under the influence may be impaired at driving, but yet more competent than someone not under the influence; why penalise the former rather than the latter?)
Tashiliciously Shriked says
Dont even
Tashiliciously Shriked says
I realise my previous post was kind of short, but i dont really rhink the idea of “lets allow some special chosen people drink/toke/snort and drive because they are better that way than some sober” needs much of a long or elaborate dismissal.
Cause seriously. Just no.
John Morales says
Tashiliciously:
Heh. Seriously?
I know your kind: you value ideology over pragmatism and regulations over results.
BTW, your dishonest paraphrase is duly noted: “lets allow some special chosen people drink/toke/snort and drive because they are better that way than some sober” should be more like “lets allow some special chosen people drink/toke/snort and drive if they are better at driving than some sober who are otherwise allowed to drive”.
(Are you even aware of the correlation between plain old fatigue with loss of competence?)
gmacs says
@74
I did it one time because I was 20 and stupid and because for some fucking reason no one can sell you a bag without smoking some with you*. Not an excuse, just an explanation of why I was stupid.
Anyway, yeah. It was one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. I mean, your concept of reality is a bit warped if you’re high enough. Your sense of timing is off (I felt like I was going slow, but everything else was going slower). It’s just not a good way to be when driving.
*I mean for fuck sake, how is that not awkward to smoke with me right after your sister broke up with me? Has anyone in the US (Irish folks didn’t usually do this) ever bought weed from someone without getting high right then and there?
Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk- says
Alex the pretty good
I admit that my experience in Belgium is limited to the freeway. The main difference to Germany was that folks would let you change lanes. In Germany, if you’re stuck behind a truck, you’re stuck, especially if your car cannot accelerate like a Formula 1 car. In Belgium you could pass the truck, change to the right lane and when you needed to change again somebody would let you.
Charly
Automatic lights are the law for newer cars in Germany. Changed some 5 years or so ago.
+++
Seconded. I have many friends who claimed that “oh, I’m a much better driver when stoned, much more careful!” Yeah, only their reactions have never been tested. And then there was the friend who tried to pump fuel through the roof window of his car.
John Morales
And I’m sure you’re going to design a test that objectively tests for that, right? You wouldn’t dream of leaving judgement who’s competent or not to the racist and sexist police, wouldn’t you?
That’s not a dishonest paraphrase, it’s what such a regulation would mean in effect. “Driving while black” is already dangerous. We don’t live in a society that fairly judges people’s abilities. That doesn’t magically vanish.
John Morales says
Giliell:
Driving simulator. Hardly a new idea.
My exact point. We use a proxy for presumed ability, instead.
Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk- says
John Morales
Now propose a doable mechanism.
Do people have to pass a driving test under various influences (how does that account for building up a tolerance via frequent use?)? Are people suspected of being incompetent hauled off to the driving simulator? What’s the objective criterion for doing so? Or do you just have to whip out your special permit and then you can carry on even if you can no longer tell what 5+3 is?
In short, give us a way how this is taken out of the hands of the racist and sexist police while also making sure people who are no longer competent for whatever reason can be removed from traffic.
unclefrogy says
I live in L.A. and I can tell you when it rains it is very dangerous here as well. I worked for a time in the street department of one of the many cities that make up greater L.A. and when it was raining we would often drive down some of the major 6 or 8 lane highways that make up the shopping districts and put temporary patches in pot holes that would get much worse in the rain. It was the scariest job we had to do, people would be driving over 40 miles an hour between signals in the pouring rain and speed right past our trucks whether we were getting out or not and we had blinkers on and lights flashing made no difference.
I do not miss that job in the least!
uncle frogy
Charly says
There might be some exceptional people who drive better while under influence of some drug than without it. There also might be some exceptional individuals who drive better while chatting on the phone than without it. Also the moon might be made of cheese.
These exceptionan individuals, even if their existence were conclusively proven and demonstrabble (which it is not) does in no way refute the fact that:
1) Wast majorigy of people (~90%) under the influence of substances altering their mental state (or performing tasks that force them to switch their concentration like phoning, texting etc.) have higher risk of poorly driving and causing a crash. Poor driving is a good predictor of substance presence.
2) tests for substances in blood/uringe/saliva/breath in random checks allow for fast sample collection and sometimes fast evaluation. This usually does not take so long for their presence to disappear (i.e. to sober up during the test). A competence tests would take much longer and be much more cost demanding.
Therefore it seems that blanket banning the use of heavy machinery whilst under the influence of certain substances is the more prudent way to go from all points of view -the lowest cost (burden on drivers, legislators, law enforcement)/effect (increase in public safety) ratio.
Not to mention that drugs effects on individuals change over time as the organism gets accustomed to given drug, so person who would fail their stoned driving thest today might pass it after a few years (or vice versa).
Charly says
I forgot to add, that the influence of drugs on individuals not always linear, there are tresholds, tipping points, valleys and generally all kinds of highly individual variations. For some drugs (alcohol) the results are more linear and predictable, but for others (THC) they are much more individual.
Germany has (had?) slight limit for alcohol in blood whilst driving (CZ has zero-tolerance) which I consider to be a bad decision, because there are people (myself included) who are very sensitive to personality-changing (as in overestimation of self etc.) effects of alcohol long before the visibly impaired-in-reasoning/reaction/speech/movement-drunk-as-a-skunk occurs. I can basically sniff a bottle cork and I become less cautious.
Allowing for exceptions (on any basis) with regard to substance use and driving seems like a really, really badly reasoned idea to me.
ledasmom says
I have watched such episodes of “Canada’s Worst Driver” as are available on YouTube. It is excellent for making one aware of one’s own bad habits. It is also terrifying.
I don’t think people realize just how hard their car can be to see on a gray day. A car without lights that’s not directly ahead can make almost no visual impact at all. It calls no attention to itself. Even a brightly-colored car doesn’t stand out.
Quite apart from the tendency of SUV drivers to drive in a manner not congruent with the conditions, there is the problem of trying to see around them. I hate having an SUV driving next to me.
bargearse says
I definitely shouldn’t have watched that. Never driven in snow before but I have to travel to Iowa for 3 weeks in January. I don’t mind saying the whole bad weather driving thing has got me a little scared.
Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk- says
Charly
It’s 0.5 o/oo
I think it would make sense to simply look at whether a 0 tolerance is really more effective. I think the biggest problem with having anything else but 0 tolerance encurages people to think that there’s a “safe limit”* and that they can “drink to their limit”.
But I will confess to having had the occasional glass of champagne some hours before driving.
*what many people don’t realise is that there’s also a risk of being held responsible at much lower levels and losing insurance coverage.
tacitus says
I drove home from Orlando, FL to Austin, TX in one day a few years ago. I made it home without incident, but a few miles from the end of the journey I came across a new freeway underpass I’d never encountered before. All I had to do was drive straight under, but after an 18 hour day, my tired mind was completely befuddled, and it took me two attempts to find the right lane and route.
Fortunately it was the middle of the night, so no harm done, but it just goes to show how quickly you can become a danger to yourself and others when you’re driving impaired, for any reason.
mastmaker says
Just returned from a winter road trip, safe and sound. No incidents beyond the Edge refusing to climb an iced up mud grade and having to put chains on my wheels (and consequent falling flat on ice as hard as rock).
But then, I was driving in Southern Utah where there were very few cars around and certainly no moronic rush witnessed!
Charly says
@Giliell #89
Thaks for pointing that out. I never actually looked ino that, so I did now. On cursory search it seems that comprehensive studies are scarce, but some exist. And it seems that zero tolerance policies do work better at least according to these two abstracts -click-, -click-. Unfortunately I do not have access to full papers because I am not a member of any academic institution, so I cannot say how big the effect is if it is not mentioned in the abstract and the paper is not available cost-free to public.
But in the light of this evidence I stand stronger in my conviction that zero tolerance policy is a better choice than some arbitrarily set “low” treshold.
Caine says
Gmacs:
Yes.
Harry Tuttle says
As a younger person I used to actually street race. Mountain roads in the hills of Tennessee. But even as a moronic twenty-something I knew there was a time and place (well scouted roads w/o cross traffic… well after midnight). I hit my fair share of guard-rails, but I never hit another car (we ran timed runs not wheel-to-wheel).
As for snow and ice, I don’t have a clue. Not my cup of tea so I avoid or go slow.
Interesting tale though; a few years back I dropped my Miata off to get stupid-wide race rubber mounted on its wheels (by this time my racing was confined to sanctioned events). It was a nice January day (mid 40s here in Chattanooga) so I piled three tires in the passenger seat, one in the trunk and drove it direct to the shop rather than pull the wheels off, throw em in the truck and drop just the rims and tires off. It’s a bear mounting 255 rubber on 7″ wide rims, I knew it would be a while so I went to see a movie.
While I was in the theater a surprise snow-storm hit. Two inches on the ground when I came out and still coming hard. No prep to the roads at all. Still not being the brightest bulb in the pack I decide to chance it getting home. 10 miles through rolling hills in a 2300 Lb RWD car on, effectively, race slicks (street legal via exactly one tread groove). It was like a demolition derby out there. Southern Tennessee + snow = panic. I puttered through town, idiots in AWD SUVs sliding into each other, light poles and ditches all around me. Every red light was a pile-up. Every hill a skating rink.
I navigated all the way through this finding the flattest possible route, backing up hills when necessary relying on the Torsen diff and astonishingly avoiding every single wreck. Then two hours and six inches of snow later, I’m half a mile from home on an abandoned back road. I 4-point backwards to go up a hill, get a little head of speed and encounter a lady walking her dog in the middle of the road. She doesn’t move. I have to stop. Slipped back down the hill and half off the road. Walked the rest of the way. Miata sat there for a week.
I’ve drifted through consecutive hairpins correcting off a gaurdrail, I’ve guttered past a Ferrari in a CRX, I and the Miata once took time of the day in the rain over LanEvos and WRX STIs, but that drive was the proudest of my life. Ruined by a lady walking her dog, in the road, during a blizzard (for southerner values of ‘blizzard’).
numerobis says
As a younger person, I have no idea how I survived.
One thing that helped is that I once drove in the evening after having had two beers over the course of the afternoon — no alcohol in a couple hours when I got in the car. My BAC must have been very low. And yet, I was terrified of how much slower my reactions were.
One thing that didn’t is that I drove like all those idiots in the video above.
Example: I once was passing a tanker-trailer, in the snow, after about 10h of winter driving with 3h to go. He was going 80 km/h, which I felt was not sufficient. As I was passing we happened upon a small bridge, which made for a break in the snow-clearing. I hit the snowbank at 100 km/h or so, and started to skid — a first for me. With a tanker full of gasoline next to me. Somehow I managed to keep the car going straight and recovered fine, cementing my invincibility complex.
ljbriar says
@37. Somewhat off-topic, but good god I am glad you’re okay. I live in one of the worst cities worldwide for bikers, and almost every single biker I know has been hit by a car, yet I still see tons of people blithely pedalling by without helmets.
gmacs says
@93
Right, superlative language is superlative. But I still find it an interesting part of marijuana culture in the US. I’ve been there when people were buying and selling weed a few times in college. At least in rural and suburban Midwest, this usually involves hanging out with the seller for a while and trying out the product. Part of that is that people are usually buying from a friend, I guess.
It’s a lot less concerning when you’re in a town small enough to walk everywhere.
Danny Butts says
The reason they are going so fast is most of them are russian.
ba-ding
NateHevens. He who hates straight, white, cis-gendered, able-bodied men (not really) says
Gilliel @ #83
There’s only one way to do this well. Replace all current cars with self-driving cars.
And surprisingly, this is not that far-fetched, considering the self-driving cars are already being tested and doing well (all crashes so far were human error, that vast majority caused by drivers of other cars, in at least one case deliberately, or so I heard).
Of course that brings up a whole crop of new issues, but removing the human element from driving is actually something that I may see in my lifetime, and I’m actually excited by it, personally (cautiously, of course… I do know the problems it could come with). You have no idea how badly I want my own fully auto-pilot car.
We wouldn’t really have to worry about inebriated driving at all, then.
————————————————————————————–
I wanted to clarify something about my last post. The person I talked about who is actually a better, safer driver when stoned is very likely not common, which is why I gave three counter examples. For every one driver like my friend, I’m sure way more than three counter examples can be found. It’s most likely way more common for inebriated driving to be terrible instead of better.
I actually agree that, other than the introduction of self-driving cars, inebriated driving is too dangerous to allow for the rare example like my friend. Yes, he’s a better driver when stoned… enough so that we prefer it when he drives stoned. But he is most likely an outlier, and even probably the exception that proves the rule.
dancaban says
My driving instructor once told me that probably the only time that you get to kill someone in this life is when you’re behind the wheel. And it might just be yourself.
Caine says
gmacs @ 97:
In such a situation, it has to do with the tradition of allowing the supplier a bit of the product. You can easily skip the “hey let’s smoke” thing either by saying no, or simply going with the also time-honored tradition of rolling a pinner, offering it the supplier with a “thanks”, or allowing the supplier to help themselves to a pinch.
mostlymarvelous says
Just a reminder about driving when it’s raining after long dry periods. A motorbike enthusiast I once met recounted how terrified he’d been arriving in Perth. He’d happily ridden his bike 2500 kms across the Nullarbor – not a divided highway – coping with gigantic trucks and people towing caravans and hoons in dilapidated cars driving way too fast in both directions. He breathed a sigh of “I’ve done it” when Perth was in sight, then the rain started for the first time in several months.
He said every road was like driving on ice. He couldn’t wait to get to the place he’d booked to stay, but he had to be patient and go very, very carefully. Not only were his tyres constantly slipping out from under him, but all the cars beside, behind and ahead of him were also slipping and sliding occasionally and unpredictably.
For my own part, what is it about visibility and people’s total incomprehension that you should never drive faster than you can see? One ghastly night I had to go up the Adelaide Hills (for recent arrivals this was long before the Heysen tunnels, this was back in the days of driving through the Devil’s Elbow and the Eagle on the Hill) in dense fog.
Normally I avoided the “slow” lane on the left that was usually clogged up with trucks chugging along in low gear. But I got into that lane and stayed there. It was dangerous. I couldn’t see anything ahead nor in my rear view mirrors. So I was carefully picking my way along by staying close enough to the edge for my lights to show the line at the edge and keep me on the road and in my lane. Out of nowhere, one or more cars would hurtle past me in the centre lane. A couple of minutes later, there’d be more of these idiots. I knew very well that they could not *possibly* have seen me where I was – nor if I’d been in their lane – but they kept right on going at multiples of the speed needed for them to be able to see anyone within stopping distance. Bloody terrifying. I still don’t understand how people can drive at speed when they are literally blinded by fog, rain or anything else.