On the Belle Jar, you can read about a girl’s personal history. It’s not a happy story. I was thinking that if I wrote a similar boy’s personal history, I could trot out a few tales — we all had scattered difficulties and conflicts while growing up — but the chilling thing is how normalized and how pettily girls’ problems are dismissed. When I faced bullies, I was told by friends and families to fight back, to deal with the problem, and my fears were taken seriously. When the girl in the story faces similar problems, the message is always to take it meekly, to not complain, to accept that boys will be boys. To live quietly in a world filled with threats, and to not try to change it.
This isn’t an old story. It’s still the dominant paradigm.
Every one of those was like a punch to the gut.
Actually, it may be worse than that. When I was bullied as a girl, the teachers/parents tended to dismiss it with “it just means he likes you”. No wonder so many women stay in abusive relationships; the fact that he’s beating the shit out of her means he “likes” her.
Reading the first section, I am reminded that when I was 7 I had a friend in the same apartment complex who wanted to have sex with me, or at least have me touch his penis. He was also 7. I told him no, because I didn’t want to risk getting pregnant. He only asked a couple times, but looking back on that as an adult, that was some seriously skeevy behaviour. I never told anyone, because I didn’t even think it was wrong. Oh, to be that naive.
What Caine said.
I’m a guy, and have no idea how to respond to something like this. I’m ashamed that it took me until my 30s to actually realize how much crap women have to deal with every single day of their lives. And, by participating in our culture, I’ve undoubtedly contributed my share of shit. However, I’m not willing to accept the status quo any longer. So, going to shut up and listen, and maybe learn how to fix this. Because we shouldn’t make girls grow up experiencing this, and boys shouldn’t grow up thinking it’s okay.
bravesirrobin @ 5:
You’re already helping, a lot. I’m sure it hasn’t escaped noticed that you’re the only guy to comment, because this is the exact sort of thing most men run away from. 6 comments on this speaks volumes, too. We’re all sexist, because we grow up in a sexist environment. Once we’re aware, that’s when we can all help to change things. As a guy, you’ll have a hell of a lot more success in pointing out to other men that “no, rape jokes aren’t funny – if you were raped, would you want us making jokes about it?” or “yeah, stop with the slut business” and so on. Men are always more likely to listen to another man, and everyone who is a parent, yeah, boys shouldn’t think this shit is okay, but it’s serious hard work, because boys and girls are drowning in toxic sexism, so it has to be countered pretty much constantly. It ain’t easy.
@Caine #6,
No kidding, I wanted to run away, too. It was really uncomfortable to learn that I’ve contributed to this kind of shit. I’m trying to raise my kids to not make the same mistakes. But I feel like the culture they are embedded in has a lot more influence. I’ve tried to let people I am around know that gendered “jokes” and insults aren’t okay when it comes up, but, as a non-confrontational person, that’s really hard. And, I’ve misssed cases where I should have spoken up. Not trying for cookies, to beat myself up, white knight points, or reassurances that “it’s okay”. Just trying to learn and do better, and maybe, if enough other people do it, there will be a generation that doesn’t have to post stories like this. Not going to hold my breath…
bravesirrobin @ 7:
I hear ya. It’s uncomfortable for me as well, because like most girls, I contributed too, and even if I didn’t do it near as much as other kids, I did enough. I grew up with the whole good girl vs slut business, and it took much longer than elementary/HS years to get that out of my head, and out of my behaviour. I still struggle with b!tch, and while I’ve mostly gotten it out of my language, it certainly pops up in my thoughts often enough.
You’re doing great, especially given how hard it can be for anyone to speak up at all, let alone when you’re non-confrontational. That takes courage and commitment – pat yourself on the back at least once each day. It’s these little things (which aren’t all that little) that make such a difference, in the short and long run. That’s how things change. And yes, I know you weren’t lookin’ for cookies, but have one anyway.
That’s a nice thought. A really nice thought. I’ll hope with you, but I won’t hold my breath either.
Every personal history or experience like this is like another set arrows through me. I always knew the world was like this. And it has been a long while since I have been reading and hearing women’s words on these things, as the internet especially makes them more accessible. And I’ve learned a lot of things here that have explained or crystallized my own thoughts and feelings, and learned even more about more subtle things that are wrong and how to avoid them. I’ve seen more and more women with the strength to speak out, and fight, and organize. (And I don’t know how you do it 24/7, I can barely manage my own life and my own rather less severe difficulties.)
But it still kills another little piece of me every time.
I’m reading Asking For It, by Kate Harding. She mentions (and excerpts a bit) from a book called The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help, by Jackson Katz. Looks like a good one to read, I’ll get it after I’m done with Harding’s book on rape culture.
Also:
Is that ever truth.
Scratch # 11, wrong thread.
@Caine:
But it still applies.
——–
I wrote out a big ole thing along the lines of the post in the OP, but decided against posting it publicly because it makes me more vulnerable than I am willing to be. Let me just say fuckshitfuckgoddammit instead, and know that isn’t close to being strong enough language to convey my emotions, here. But that for every incident recalled in the OP, just about every woman I know and have known has something in their own past or present which corresponds, and it is rage making, hope dashing, insidious, pervasive.
Onamission5 @ 13:
And yet, scores of people continue to claim that women are just making shit up about being silenced. Yep. I know what you mean. Every time I write anything which contains a detail (even one on the very vague side), there’s a part of me screaming, don’t write that, it could be a clue, it could lead someone to you, and so forth. I just turned 58 last month, and I am faced with the knowledge that I’ll never draw breath on a life which doesn’t have that background terror.
Yes, all that.
F @ 9:
That means you’re helping, though. It matters. Every voice, no matter how still or quiet, matters. Every voice helps to turn up a collective roar, in which we can all say, we’re mad as hell, and we’re not going to take it anymore.
Gods, it makes me ashamed to be a man some days. Most days.
I read that and thought “Yup, that seems mostly pretty normal, moving on…”. Then I read all your comments, and realised no, that is actually awful.
Now I’m annoyed that my first reaction was so blase. It isn’t just boys who are trained to think it is normal, and nothing to be concerned by. We all have to break free of it.