I can’t stand it. I’ve banned a fair number of people for being vile scumbags, and they keep coming back and shitting out their crap in the comments…even when they know they’ll be blocked. In the thread, The Charleston shooting: the prequel, a long-ago banned slymepitter (you know, that simple little place that specializes in exposing plagiarism, just like gamergate is about ethics in journalism) named bovarchist (some of you may remember him) decided to plop this in the comments:
Black people just don’t get it, do they? I’ve never seen one of these videos where the black guy is being perfectly calm and cooperative, and the cop just shoots him because ‘racist’. It’s always the same; the black guy gets more and more belligerent, while the cop tries harder and harder to calm him down, and then…dead black guy, and who really gives a fuck? If black lives don’t matter to them, why should they matter to me? And what kind of scumbag buys a Mercedes when he owes child support? But hey, he liked to dance and sing, so I guess he’s a great guy.
I know this isn’t getting through Myers’ defensive shield, but damn do black people ever need a reality check. You can get pissed off about racism, or you can start acting whiter and have a better life. I really don’t care either way what you decide.
At least bovarchist provides clarity: that, everyone, is the bigotry we must fight against. That is the kind of person who gets banned from Pharyngula, and finds a home at the slymepit.
Well, bigots and really, really stupid people.
What the fuck does he even mean, “act whiter”?
Yeah, act all nice and cooperative, like white people.
Fucking idiot.
If only people were better at picking their ancestors, we wouldn’t have all these problems we’ve had over the years.
Can’t get much whiter the those duck folks, for example.
Right?
There is so much wrong with that comment that I hardly know where to start.
You know you’re off to a good start when someone makes such a vague generalization.
As if that fucking matters. Black people shouldn’t have to “remain calm and cooperative” so that they won’t be killed by cops. White people don’t have to be calm and cooperative with the police officer, and many times they aren’t. Hell, some white people get arrested without harm after a four-hour stand-off with police which saw LEO attacked with a bow and arrow! Meanwhile, Michael Brown, Jr. was killed and he didn’t have a weapon. Tamir Rice didn’t have a weapon and he was killed within seconds after the arrival of police. Yvette Smith was killed by cops after doing exactly what they asked her to do! 7-year-old Aiyana Jones was sleeping in her grandmother’s house when police raided the wrong apartment and killed her.
I have no doubt that they would all still be among the living if they were white.
Bovarchist clearly understands the concept of White Privilege.
Also, while some people make a conscious effort to act on their racist beliefs (look at the KKK prison guards who plotted to kill a former inmate) one of the biggest problems with racism is that it exists on both a conscious and subconscious level. If this fool actually took the time to research the topic, xe would likely know about implicit racial bias, which leads people-including police officers-to make snap judgments about others based on their actual or perceived race or ethnicity.
The level of disdain and apathy in this comment is infuriating. “Who gives a fuck?”
I DO. SO DO A GREAT MANY OTHERS. So should anyone concerned with advancing the well-being of marginalized groups. Yes, we know you’re not part of that group. You wear your racism on your sleeve proudly. Stormfront would probably give you a gold star.
In addition it’s not *always* black men. It’s black women too. It’s trans women of color too. Don’t erase their experiences you piece of shit.
And no, the police invariably do not try to de-escalate a situation. In case after case after case law enforcement officers escalate a situation. *THEY* are the ones who frequently make things worse through their actions. They are the ones who need to work on de-escalation.
I really hope you don’t claim to be a Humanist. If so, you need to find a better home. Like the KKK.
It is true that some fathers fail to pay child support. But these fathers are not just black men you fucking assclam, so fuck off with attempts to paint this as a “black problem”.
Your attempts at character assassination as justification for extrajudicial execution at the hands of a law enforcement officer are noted too.
It shouldn’t matter how great a person someone is, but clearly you think that’s relevant.
No, fuckwits like yourself need a reality check. You’re talking about things you are so goddamned ignorant about, that reading your comment was almost painful. You don’t know what racism is.
You have no clue of implicit racial bias.
You think suspects should kow-tow to police and follow their every word so that they can emerge alive from police encounters, even when reality shows that even when black people do that, they still wind up dead.
And this right here sums it all up. The disdain this asshole shows for people who are not white is distilled right here. Xe doesn’t give a fuck about the lives of people who are black. Or Hispanic. Or Asian. Or any race other than white. Only white people deserve to be alive. Only white people deserve to be free of police brutality. Only white lives matter.
Someone have something big I can smash? I need to work off some rage right now.
Counterpoint, I remember well the widely publicized video of the cop stopping a car, telling the driver to get out, telling the driver to hand over his papers, then shooting the man (not dead) for trying to get his papers. The victim was very calm the whole time. The cop was not.
There’s something not right in a country when cops move to a common vehicle check with drawn weapons. Millions of USAians appear to have accepted that behavior as normal and justified, but from my Euro perspective, I just find it to be an alarming sign and very, very odd.
Careful, PZ. This kind of intolerance will get you denounced by people like Michael Nugent & Atheist Ireland. They’re roasting you pretty good over on Hemant’s blog too.
Artor @7:
I read about that earlier on Facebook. With people like bovarchist on that side of the rifts, I’m glad they’re continuing to deepen. If Hemant wants to be on that side, he can fuck right the fuck off too.
permanganater
Clearly one of them is.
And libertarians philosophy is inherently racist so what does that say about the apathetic assholes who wear the libertarian badge?
Yawn. I don’t think PZ is terribly worried about the opinions of a Slymepitter (or their associates).
Feel free to let the door hit your ass on the way out. We can fix it later.
It boggles my mind to watch people defend any of the PItters given the years long campaign of harassment many of them have engaged in. The sexism, misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia so many of them wallow in should be indefensible, yet here we have a Brave Hero coming along to tell us they aren’t really that bad.
Fuck that noise.
Equal treatment with respect to the law and society? Unfortunately, no.
And they avoid the video of the guy fleeing the cop like a coward, and fill our perception with aggression. Probably because reality does not fit their narrative which is status quo for racist fucks. They sure are pretty good at hyper-focusing on the slightest thing that they think will save whiteness from…
…I can’t actually think of anything that I might want to save something I might call “whiteness” from.
This is a good reason why the people like those on the other side of the rift and similar should really consider their choices. Who the fuck wants this person or anyone like them as a political ally or companion? Why the fuck would they not have a similar attitude about me? Because I’m white? I don’t believe for one minute that my skin color would make a difference with someone like this. This is someone with really deep problems.
And whites kill each other more than they kill anyone else. I get the impression that the one who does not care much about anyone’s lives is this person.
Not one that deserved to get shot in the back while running away. Given this persons attitude the “scumbag” is also misplaced.
I would not know, I don’t really make rationalizations to hide the fact that I’m so full of projection that I could be used to show “A Birth of a Nation” for the next decade.
I love it how when people tend to write something like “you probably won’t post this…”, and it’s something you actually want to post because they make the case for you.
You give me no reason to think that I will have anything remotely like a good life if I emulated you beyond basic life functions.
Yep! You posted this because you don’t care.
I’m always astounded when I see this one.
@permanganater
Cool your own jets if you want anything cool. If you can’t reach the substance through the attitude you are not really cut out for anything around here, or anything like arguing with creationists. Most of politics really.
Given the sheer bullshit and dishonesty I see out of anyone I meet that’s pit-related and my experience of the fight over the last several years I think that the trash PZ quoted is not the only one projecting around here. That place is steeped in perspectives that render people they disagree with as less-than-human.
Othering? You are full of shit. We know quite well that they are human and atheists. Really shitty human atheists with shitty morals. Point out this phantom “othering” you speak of.
I don’t care what the pit as a collective or as individuals thinks they are doing. I’ve seen the most grotesque harassment, threats, intimidation and more come out of that place. Like here? Not even close. Some of them were certainly commentators once, but I am glad that we learned what kind of human they are.
permanganater @13:
I don’t think I will. You’re an apologist for a group of fucking assholes who have demonstrated through their actions over the years that they are a group of assholes. If you’re ignorant of the shit they’ve done, that’s your problem. Go rectify your ignorance instead of telling me to calm down. I have a fucking right to be angry. I’m angry because of how the Pitters have treated people over the last few years. People like Ophelia Benson, Jen McCreight, Rebecca Watson, PZ, Stephanie Zvan, and many more people.
You aren’t pointing out anything useful. I’ve been commenting at FtB in general and Pharyngula specifically for more than 5 years. I’ve been exposed to the Pitters many, many times. As a group, they are sexist, misogynistic, homophobic, and transphobic. If there are some individuals among them that aren’t, the fact that they associate with such shitty people doesn’t speak well of them.
Similarly, the fact that you’re engaging in apologetics for them doesn’t speak well of you.
No one is “having warring sites”. You either don’t know the history of the Deep Rifts, or you don’t care. Either way, the differences between the people on both sides of the rift are quite substantial. There’s a reason many of us are happy they want nothing to do with us. We want nothing to do with them. So it works out great for us.
If you’re going to drone on about everyone getting along and working under Big Tent Atheism, you’re wasting your breath. Until those assholes work on their empathy, I (and many others) want nothing to do with them. I’ve based my dislike for Pitters on shit they’ve actually done and said. When I say they’re homophobic, sexist, misogynistic, and transphobic, it’s because so fucking many of them ARE. I don’t tolerate that shit. Nor do I have a high opinion of people like you who make apologies for them.
Again…—->there’s the fucking door.
It’s so precious (not) that you think you’re talking to someone who hasn’t interacted with Pitters in the past. You’re wrong.
You can stop trying to defend them now.
You’re not going to get anywhere here with that shit.
Also, I’m not trying to beat them. I ignore those fuckers until they rear their heads in comments such as the one in the OP (or when one of them thinks I’m actually going to let them post a racist comment on my blog).
Contrary to your ignorant understanding of the Deep Rifts, this isn’t a war. There is no battle going on.
But do keep speaking from a position of profound ignorance.
I’m well aware that in some areas, many of the Pitters share opinions similar to many of us on this side of the rift. Unfortunately, on other issues, such as feminism, their opinions are horrid. These are the fuckers who opposed anti-harassment policies at atheist conventions. These are the fuckers who engaged in years of harassment against Rebecca Watson. These are the people who defend Thunderfuck. I want nothing to do with people who display such high levels of moral, ethical, and empathetic fail.
“The majority couldn’t more clearly be center-left on all these issues.”
It’s just tribalism for you, isn’t it? Centre left = good guys, atheists= therefore they must be right, so long as they don’t go Off Message like those ghastly FTBers. No critical thinking needed at all.
Soooo… endlessly harassing women is not sexist. Got it. Thank you for clarifying that for me. These fluffy pink ladybrainz just don’t let me do that thinky thing very well.
permanganater
yup
we know
Out of morbid curiosity, I foolishly decided to check the Slyme Pit — through a proxy, I don’t want it in my logs — to see whether bovarchist still posts on the Slyme Pit, and what current discussions were like.
Don’t.
I had to rapidly close the window because, before long in the results (not even a week past), I encountered:
* naked images of very obese people (presumably being compared to prominent atheists they don’t like)
* discussion of how revolting they found those bodies (either the pics or the targets, unsure at the glance I had), or mock arousal at them
* discussion of sexual bodily fluids in connection with the anatomy of women atheists (the most sanitised way I can put it)
Bovarchist wasn’t the sole initiator of all of this content, either; he was merely one of many complicit in the discussion.
(Minor additional point; in many posts, the running subject line was something along the lines of: “Shut up about Zimmerman, no one cares.” I’m not going back to confirm exact wording. )
I didn’t get far enough to determine whether racist bigotry was also a recent topic. I couldn’t read any further.
So you’ll excuse me, permanganater, if I don’t ever go back to that horror show to look for extenuating discussion. The site is irredeemable and the people there disgust me.
permanganater
Do you really think that is something to be proud of?
Really?
permanganater @20:
You defend misogynistic bigots. That makes you an arsehole. If you didn’t defend misogynistic bigots, then I’d probably change the manner in which I respond to you.
As things stand now, you’re not deserving of that courtesy. You don’t get to decide how I respond to your apologies for misogyny. This is a rude blog and if you can’t deal with coarse language, this isn’t the place for you. My choice to use “naughty” language is my own, and I do not need to justify it to anyone, let alone you. Fuck your damn tone trolling. I may be using “naughty” language, but you’re apologizing for bigots.
It fucking well is true, and both Brony and I have told you why. If you’re not going to bother reading what people are saying then just fuck off right now.
I already acknowledged that the Pitters do share some of the same concerns as those of us on this side of the Rift. You, however, continue to dismiss the outright misogyny that the Pitters have displayed for years. Whether or not they act this way at the Slymepit is irrelevant. Pitters have infested comments sections at various FtB blogs over the years (and IIRC, they still do over at Heteronormative Patriarchy). I’ve read plenty of them. I don’t need to visit the Pit to know the opinions of many of them. Your apologetics accomplish nothing, bc I’m not ignorant of the actions of the Pitters. As I’ve said, if you’re ignorant, go educate yourself. If you simply don’t care that they’ve been involved in a years long campaign of harassment against feminist atheists, then I have nothing to say other than that yes, you are an arsehole.
No.
My advice is to educate yourself you ignorant ass. PZ likely *does* believe it. As do I. As do many people, because we’ve had direct experience with Pitters for years. Experience which you continue to deny in your quest to paint them as “not that bad”. Perhaps you took a wrong turn on your way to the not-so-Friendly Atheist’s blog, where apologetics for Pitters is apparently A-ok there. Or maybe you meant to visit Nugent’s site, where the comments are infested with Pitters. In any case, your attempts at historical revisionism re: the actions of the Pitters are not going to go over well here, bc again, many of us have had experiences with them.
Which is something you keep ignoring. I guess it’s because it conflicts with the narrative you have in your head.
Hahahahahaha!
You’re actually attempting to make it seem like the Deep Rifts are just a difference of opinion, rather than the result of a segment of the Atheist/Skeptic community being misogynistic assholes (who have also demonstrated homophobia, transphobia, and racism).
Fuck off asshole.
permanganater @22:
Tasteless?
The examples Kagato mentions are bigotry. Fat-shaming and sexism.
Your defense of those fuckers paints you just as bad as they are.
Incidentally, as the Rifts were occurring, many people actually tried to reason with those bigots. Many of us *tried* to engage them, but they wouldn’t back down from their bigotry. So I’m goddamn glad the Deep Rifts exist. Now will you please run over to your side? I want nothing to do with apologists for bigotry like you.
Does permanganator mayhaps have an explanation for what being ‘centre-left on racism’, for example, means? Perhaps some good examples of activism in feminism, a treatise against transphobia written in the Slymepit to prove their actual allegiance with the same side as FtB (there are sides?)?
Also, considering Kagato’s example, I can’t help but wonder at the thoughtless and insensitive use of words here. Kagato’s example is not a joke, and treating it as such with silly word games does nothing to bolster your own case.
Regarding the OP, PZ has posted one example of several such comments in the spam queue. Is there a counter example that permanganator can offer up, instead of repeating oneself one more time about centre-left and a list of issues? Has the Slymepit, maybe, opened a crowdfunding account for the family of Walter Scott? Or the family of some other black victim of police violence (so many to choose from!)?
(Funny, too – every time PZ posts or talks about a specific example of a known commenter from the Slymepit, someone(s) show up with the whole not-a-real-slymepitter spiel. Pretty soon, it’ll be as if nobody who hangs out at the Slymepit for any length of time is actually a ‘pitter…)
Even if I took Pomegamergater at their word about the political proclivities of the shitpit, all that proves is that they are the kind of fake progressives that have been fucking over the less privileged for eons while expecting to be thanked for it – like TERFs, like the moderates that MLK lambasted, like the people the song “Love Me I’m a Liberal” was written about, like the shitbags at FluffPo. Particularly fat-shaming in a society as off-the-rails fucked about body issues as this one is a brand of evil that must be destroyed. It kills people everyday, much like the police.
riiiight.
the forum that came into existence because National Geographic did not wish to have aggressively sexist slag against Rebecca Watson on their site is being “mis-cast” by being called sexist
the forum where people who threw a shitfit over the installation of harassment policies ath atheo-skeptic cons hang out is being “mis-cast” by being called sexist.
the forum where you get to hang with people who make videos about shooting and killing a female blogger is being “mis-cast” by being called sexist.
the forum where a commenter can defend the use of n****r, f****t, etc. as a means of putting people who are too uppity down a peg is being “mis-cast” by being called bigoted.
the forum whose members regularly misgender trans bloggers is is being “mis-cast” by being called transphobic.
the forum whose members regularly engage in fatphobic memes especially against women is being “mis-cast” by being called sexist.
If you don’t know the whole history of the pit like the people who were there for the whole of it, I suggest you shut the fuck up.
pretty standard tactic for these shitwaffles. Gamergate does the same.
permanganater #24
What the fuck are you on about?
Could you use English rather than American?
“Not all of them are like that, there are a few good ones too.”
or maybe “Racism exists, but doing something about it is reverse-racism.”
etc.
I do not agree that harassment policies are a bad thing; I do not agree that criticizing creepy unwanted sexual approaches deserves the creation of an entire forum in which to slag you; I do not agree that the use of racist, sexist, transphobic, homophobic, etc. slurs is acceptable; I do not believe transphobia is acceptable; I do not believe unethically diagnosing people with diseases over the internet is acceptable; I do not believe posting people’s addresses on a public site to encourage harassment is acceptable; I do not believe harassing a woman with PTSD is acceptable; I do not believe defending a rapist like Shermer is acceptable. Etc.
It appears that someone’s “just asking questions.”
You’re kidding, right?
This isn’t , like a kid telling a fart joke. It’s not a jape, it’s not a lark. This is straight up abuse.
So you go there purely for the then, I take it?
If you wanted to go to a bar for the political discussion, why would you pick the one with open sewage running under the stools? Sure, the bouncer ignores everything short of actual murder, so you’ve got freedom to say what you want! But is it worth the constant, unavoidable stench?
There are other bars. You can find serious conversations that aren’t islands floating in a sea of shit.
one of the things that will never cease to entertain me is that people will tell kids that swearing is adult language, but tell adults that it is childish.
Aside from that, someone who will minimize harassment and fatphobia but complain about swearing really needs their priorities readjusted. just saying.
“Young,” also known as “passionate,” which some people are capable of being when they actually care about shit, regardless of age. My dad will cuss some fake liberal ass off.
incorrect. that one e-mail is by no means the cause of the knowledge of the extensive racism present in the pit; it is merely a demonstration of it.
seriously, permanganater, stop acting as if all of this were new.
permanganater #36
gotcha
bless your heart
permanganater
Commenting while drunk almost always leads to regret.
permanganater @ 42
So swearing: problematic style, worth complaining about. Misogyny and body shaming: “tasteless guff” that can safely be ignored.
I think your priorities might be skewed.
No, he said:
* He received a racist comment from someone banned long ago, who came from the Slyme Pit back then,
* this commenter is the sort of person who will be banned at Pharyngula, and
* this commenter can still find a home at the Slyme Pit.
Which one of these is false?
Is Bovarchist not welcome there after all? Bovarchist came from the Pit back at the first banning; and I saw posts from the past few days, so I assume they’re still quite active and have been there all this time.
Are you perhaps suggesting the post is a fabrication? I assume not…
PZ did not say that Pitters as a whole are a racist bunch; but clearly, Pitters have no problems with racists among their ranks.
It’s just a style thing, just like using n****r and f****t, just style things. Or was that Freeze Peach?
So yeah, when the ‘pit uses slurs, that’s Freeze Peach; when the Horde uses cuss words, that’s Bad Style.
Also, feeling ignored. By permanganator.
Though I don’t suppose that’s a bad thing.
chigau @44
I note your use of the word ‘almost’. You’ve had exceptions?
honeycakes, I’ve been spot-sampling posts from the pit since it was a thread on ERV’s blog. It’s not a lie, it’s the conclusion of 4 years of observation.
But again, since you seem to think blatant displays of fatphobia are just icky jokes comparable to poop posts, it seems you’re just not very good at identifying bigotry when it appears.
I also note that my lists of assortedly bigoted and hateful things done by pitters have gone completely ignored by permanganator. hmmm…..
rq #49
…. now that you mention it
not so far
Permanganater, it is so beautiful that you accuse me of trying to silence you.
It fits so perfectly with the frame you’re hanging your own picture in.
You’re filling another square in the bingo board.
You could type what you typed – I didn’t silence you.
I could read what you typed – I didn’t silence you.
You have not been banned, warned, or held in moderation – I didn’t silence you.
I do not have moderator privileges here (and would reject any such offer) – I didn’t silence you.
I didn’t even ask you to be quiet or tell you to shut up – I didn’t silence you.
I merely pointed out what you were doing, not that it’s necessary (because of course it’s obvious…) for my own amusement.
I do not WANT to silence you. I would not silence you.
PZ and others have different opinions, but in my case I prefer it when people reveal as much about themselves as you are doing here.
When people decide to tattoo the word “shithead” across their own forehead, my own inclination is to let them go ahead and do it.
I just sometimes make a snarky remark from the sidelines… I never seem to lose the capacity to be amazed at some people’s inability to realize that they aren’t fooling anyone.
I have been a regular here (though mostly silent of late) for many many years. Several blog iterations ago.
Acting as if people here are not fully aware of the reason for the existence and character of the slymepit is like expecting a teenager to be unaware of the pus they recently squeezed out of a carbuncle on their cheek.
Carry on carrying on, oppressed one.
permanganater
The ‘bless your heart’ was genuine.
in the Pharyngula sense of the phrase
Jafafa Hots
Quoted because of the lovely imagery.
and the truth
I mean, seriously; just now, a single random click at a random pitter thread gets me a pitter apologizing for giving a fuck about racism apologia because it makes them ” too FfTB about this”.
Another random click gets me “Brown was a violent thief who fought with an officer of the law.
but yeah, totes not racist.
so: accusing people of lying for political purposes, with no evidence that this is true? apparently acceptable in permanganater’s view; but calling them a non-bigoted insult, that’s violence-worthy.
priorities, y’all
That’s not for you to judge. And going by your performance here – including the slimy condescension towards Tony – you most certainly are. No-one here is interested in your apologia for the Slymepit, or in having anything further to do with the scumbags who post there.
permanganater @42:
Still whining about tone I see.
I do find it interesting that you’re dismissing my posts/replies as all fuckety-fuckety-fuckety, when it’s pretty damn clear to anyone who takes the time to read what I’ve said that my comments contain quite a bit of substance that you continue to ignore. It’s almost as if you’d rather whine about tone than discuss the actual problems I have with the Pitters.
@33:
First off, you can quit fucking trying to dictate to me how I should respond to you. You don’t get to make demands of me asshole.
No, I don’t know the extent to which racism infects the minds of the pitters. For all I know the fuckwit in the OP is an outlier. It still doesn’t change the point PZ made in the OP-which was not that all the Pitters are racist assholes like the douchebag in the OP. His point was that the Pitters are scumbags, and the comment in the OP is an example of that scumbaggery.
FFS, learn to read for comprehension. Or you could just fuck right off shitstain.
Also, if you’ve been around the block a few times, then you clearly know what we’ve been saying in this thread about the Pitters. You know how they’ve acted over the years, and yet you still make apologetics for them. You’re literally trying to minimize their homophobia, transphobia, fat-shaming, sexism, and misogyny. You treat their actions as if they aren’t a big deal. What the every loving fuck is wrong with you?!
I’ve no intention of doing any such thing. And it’s lovely that you think that Pitters aren’t aware that some of their own are racist fuckwits.
#36:
Damn, but you’re fixated on tone for some unearthly reason. Look, if you hadn’t come here spouting your apologetics, I wouldn’t have taken the tone I have with you. You aren’t being polite, you smary asshole. Individually, the words you’re using aren’t rude, but the substance of your comments?
That substance is rude. It is assholish. It is attempting to mask or downplay bigotry. And that shit is not right.
Swearing/cursing/profanity pales in comparison to what you’re doing.
There is nothing “young” or “immature” about using colorful language. It isn’t a sign of anything other than a person who chooses to use certain language. You’re the one with the preconceived idea that certain words are ::gasp:: sooooooo bad.
Get over yourself.
I would argue that what p. is doing is less JAQing off and more sea lioning, but that might be pedantic.
In any case, this reminds me sooo much of gaters: every time you’d point out their bigotries, there’d be a swarm of sea lions whining at you about how that one person doesn’t count, and it’s quotemining, and really it’s about ethics in game journalism.
permanganater @38:
No, because PZ didn’t say that. It’s clear to anyone who actually read the OP. He didn’t say that the Pitters are racist. He said they’re scumbags and the commenter in the OP is one example of that. Perhaps you should go re-read the OP several times. Maybe it will sink in. I don’t know what your deal is with ignoring, minimizing, and engaging in apologetics for the ‘Pit, but it sure looks to me like you’ve got a grudge against PZ or the commentariat (or both) that you’re working out here.
Or maybe this is just your way to get your ‘Banned from Pharyngula’ badge, to wave around with your fellows at the ‘Pit.
Permanganater #13
The average ‘pitter is not a misogynist? You just waved bye-bye to the last tiny shred of credibility you may have had. And on your second post, too; good going.
right? their very foundation is misogyny. and it’s not like they ever stopped harassing skepchicks or female ftb bloggers (like making videos in which one ftb blogger is shot and killed, cuz lulz)
also, I didn’t even comment on this but… what does one’s political positioning have to do with this? How does being “center left” render one non-bigoted? Since when are leftists, regardless of distance from center, immune to racism, sexism, transphobia, and other shit?
permanganator @ wherever
What’s with the whole assuming someone’s angry because they used a naughty word thing? Some of us, apparently not including you, are grown ups who are capable of not losing the plot the instant someone swears. You’re reading off a standard-issue script here, permanganator. You’re fooling exactly nobody. You’re going to whine incessantly about the tone of people who swear at you, while ignoring everything said by those who meet your arbitrary standard of civility. You’re going to repeat the same demonstrably false claims over and over and then evince complete astonishment that nobody will simply take your word that the behavior we’ve all personally observed from ‘pitters over the last 5 or so years didn’t happen. You’re nothing we haven’t seen a thousand times before and this little song and dance is no more convincing the 1001st time than it was the 1st.
and my lists of pitter bigotries still remain unaddressed….
Tone trolling. Assertion that the nasty misogynists are actually lovely people fighting for good. Asking Tony ever so nicely for evidence of the racist crap. Hey, is permaganater actually some sort of large marine mammal?
Any “the Slymepit really isn’t that bad” statement will inevitably turn into a version of “what did the Romans ever do for us?”
Dr Marcus Hill Ph.D. @68:
Now that you mention it…it sure does seem like Sea-lioning all the way down.
Oops. I missed Jadehawk’s comment about sea-lioning @62.
And then there’s that easy invitation to ‘naming and shaming’, and the offer to signal-boost… Mnyeah.
@ Jadehawk #65
Full disclosure: I was not around during the Great Schism™, but as I understand it the event occurred due to FTB’s generally progressive stance on feminist issues and the ThunderF00t issue. Some bloggers and readers split off, the Slymepit was created, a Deep Rift™ opened up between the two, and ever since the ‘pitters have spent their time whining about harassment issues, whining about A+, whining about FtB, and harassing any prominent Atheist who dares to voice a progressive opinion, especially if they are a woman.
As I see it, if the sole reason for the existence of a place is due to their opposition to feminism then it’s a fairly safe bet that the people there are either going to be actively misogynist or at least tacitly accepting of misogyny. The actions of various ‘pitters I have come into contact with seem to lend credence to this theory. And yet, according to P., it is a “demonstrable lie” that the ‘pit is generally misogynist… uhuh.
Someone upthread accused P. of Tribalism. I think they were dead right. P. assumes that Atheists are logical, rational, intelligent people, and that leftists are intellectually and morally superior. I’d be lying if I didn’t acknowledge that I’m often guilty of making this assumption too, but I am least capable of acknowledging that it is, at best, a rule of thumb. People are irritatingly complex and defy pigeonholing. And yet P. assumes that ‘pitters can’t be misogynist, or racist, or transphobic, because hey, they’re pretty left-wing on most issues!
Am I correct in assuming that Libertarianism is a common philosophy over there?
Jadehawk
I disagree. I don’t think that “I once committed a violent crime against somebody who did the same as you just did*” is very sealion-like. But I doubt that the sealion in chief and his fanboys would think that there’s anything wrong with doing so.
*
All this time I thought the “slymepit” was a metaphor. I didn’t google it, of course, it was obviously a figure of speech.
I wonder what my next similar surprise will be.
As far as I can tell, permanganater’s argument is that simply because you tolerate racist, misogynist, homophobic speech, and are perfectly happy to share a label and a forum with people who publicly spew it, that doesn’t make you racist, misogynist, or homophobic yourself.
Let’s say, for the sake of argument, I accept that.
What does it make you, then, permanganater?
What does it say about someone when they apparently don’t see racist, misogynist, homophobic speech as a problem?
[deep announcer voice] “The Slymepit. Not racist or misogynist, just #1 with racists and misogynists.”
damien75 @75:
Yeah. Not a metaphor. Hell, that’s the name they gave the site.
****
Anri @76:
I’ve been waiting on an answer for those questions for a while now. I’m really tired of holding my breath.
Citation needed. Liar and bullshitters such as yourself make your word impossible to believe. Try shutting the fuck up. It make you look less pathetic.
Yes, I believe it, NOT YOU. You don’t tell the truth. Yawn, just another bigoted bullshitter.
Bull, fucking, SHIT. You are, liar and bullshitter. It shows, and we saw that from your first stupid post. You can’t have an intelligent one.
permanaganater
That’s an amazing display of arrogance, telling a group of people that you know better what they believe than they do.
BTW, I don’t “believe” that the average pitter is racist, sexist, homo- and transphobic. I know it ’cause I’ve seen it.
Slymepitters and defenders of the slymepit are insta-banned here. Anyone who defends, at length, that nest of lies and bigotry is someone I don’t want to have a conversation with.
A lot of cops have systematically worked themselves into a frenzy about defending the good people of the world against the evil people, rather than helping all people. And the good are all white, while those imagined to be bad are all black. And those cops are frantic about it, as are their supporters, while believing that their opponents are the delusionals.
As for the cops talking calmly, remember Kajieme Powell, who very calmly set up a scenario to illustrate the cops bad behavior. Two cops arrived, and shot him dead within seconds, then proceeded to handcuff the dead body.
The police are acting crazy. Which seems to be acting white, these days.
White people, you have my sympathy for having to count scum like bovarchist among your numbers.
@Anri #76
Which is technically true, of course, but it does mean that you are tacitly supporting those bigotries. Which is hardly better than actively expressing them.
@Menyambal #84
No they are not defending anything.
They are just petty bullies.
It’s just much easier to bully people who have less power and look different than you.
@Saad #85
Black people, you don’t get to count yourself out of humanity. <_<
They call themselves sheepdogs, and we’re the sheep, except for the sheep in wolf’s clothing.
Thing about sheep is, they’re mostly white. Not a coincidence, I think.
Caitie
Well, black sheep get slaughtered for the good of the herd.
And now I’m sick in my mouth
(WARNING: Contains an extremely graphic photo)
This guy was pretty damn white…
Oh, by acting whiter he presumably means this
The link above goes to an article about how the cop who murdered Walter Scott has a history of unprovoked assault of black people.
It happens with Libertarians, racists, misogynists, homo- and transphobes…. It’s a permutation of no-true-Scotsman: “Sure, I was born in Glasgow and can roll my “r”s with the best of them, but I don’t wear a kilt so I’m not really a Scotsman.”
I know it’s kind of missing the point, but he’s also wrong that black people wouldn’t get shot if they would just “act white”.
Here’s a black guy “acting white” (driving a pickup truck to a gas station and quickly and calmly obeying a police officer) and he still gets shot.
F.O.
How about white people learn to take some collective responsibility for once without needing to drag everyone else in with them? Muslims and black people have learned this trick rather well.
Slimepit apologia? That’s great. What the world needs more of is obstinate denial of reality and excessive amounts of gaslighting on behalf of bigots. There is such a severe deficit of those incredibly valuable resources.
Artor:
And there goes all my respect for the “Friendly” Atheist. He had an interesting journey. Started off as a tone troll atheist, then sided with the New Atheists, and now is essentially on the anti-feminist side of the great divide in the holy name of….tone, again.
At least Hemant, in the middle of his post castigating PZ and lamenting his previous connections with him, leading into an interview with Brave Sir Michael of the Fainting Couch, managed to link to this post, that provides context to the horribly out of context quotes littering Atheist Ireland’s statement: https://proxy.freethought.online/godlessness/2015/04/08/atheist-irelands-statement-on-pz-myers/
Not that Hemant seemed to care about letting that information affect his commentary. Also the statement is just cobbled together from shit Nugent has already said before. I distinctly remember this quote:
Sadly I can’t find my post on the subject, but Beckel, Phelps, Schlussel, Cohen, Limbaugh, Stein, and D’Souza all really do deserve some serious hate.
From wikipedia for the three more obscure ones: Beckel, Schlussel, and Cohen.
Beckel: (Trigger Warning)
Cohen:
Debbie Schlussel:
Apparently it is just Oh So Wrong to “hate” these people. Don’t be intolerant of intolerance, and other such fucking nonsense.
That insistence on language. I don’t believe it’s a matter of it being “childish” because that should not be hard to endure compared to the sort of stuff that is normal in political arguments. I mean what I say about creationists and language, those comparisons to Nazis and worse and a hundred other things that looked like childish grasping at anything to smear you with should be more offensive because “you are an asshole” should be less offensive than “you are a Nazi”.
I think that permanaganater’s second comment showed what was really going on. While the comment is now deleted, they expressed that they wanted Tony to “cool their jets”. I don’t believe that it’s the childishness, it’s the fact that the tone was a challenge, an aggressive symbol. Over and over I see lots of little ways that people used to being “top dog” socially try to maintain that.
I get the impression that if a person used to being socially dominant can get a person trying to get equal treatment to yield on tone, it has another purpose. It feels like a sign that the emotion in the tone was not worth it after all and the things that the person was upset about is proved to be illegitimate on a social level. It’s like getting you to show submission or respect when the issue of one of being disrespected or worse.
I could be wrong about it, but profanity often has so little content that I have to wonder what it is doing for us.
Apologies if that was off topic…..
Fucking hindsight.
Saad: Thank you for your sympathy. It is part of the White Man’s Burden.
As for “acting whiter”, I’m sure there are fucking tons of examples of white people acting far far worse than the black people who get unceremoniously killed in the fucking streets. And those unarmed angry white people are somehow subdued, put into a squad car, brought to prison, and brought into a court to a jury of their peers! By some miracle! It is almost like police are trained to do it, can do it well, and it is their major job function! But apparently it is beyond their ken when dealing with black people in a similar situation! And this isn’t due to racism at all, despite the obvious and absurdly different treatment of similarly behaving people differentiated almost exclusively by skin color! Suddenly arresting unarmed people and not murdering them in the streets is too much to expect of the police when the culprit is a black person! Suddenly being big, arguing with an officer, being angry in the general vicinity of an officer are all capital offenses! Just not if the person is white! But that’s not racism! Because reasons.
I fucking hate people.
anteprepro
Here’S an internet for you, freshly brewed.
+++
Also, acting whiter, remember pumpkin fest?
Brave Sir Michael of the Fainting Couch
Baron of Clutchpearl. Hah.
Thank you, thank you. I like Baron of Clutchpearl quite a bit, rq.
Brony:
Not sure if this what you were really talking about, but I can’t stop talking and have some ideas regarding the “purpose” of profanity, specifically when profanity is NOT used even in insults, but probably also applicable to insults as well:
1. Venting or displaying anger or frustration.
2. Providing emphasis.
3. Providing a degree of humor or increasing level of entertainment and interest.
4. Decreasing the level of formality in the writing, making it seem more like a conversation than erudite lecture.
5. Unthinking verbal tic.
6. Part of transgressing normal social rules to establish a new normal “tone”.
And I’m sure there’s more.
anteprepro, #97
For example, a white person once shot someone in the back four times while pretending to protect the public and then lying about it. Then there was also that white person who choked someone to death on camera.
Like damien75, I also didn’t realise “slymepit” was an actual site and tended to assume it was a reference to an in-joke (like “sniny”) I had missed. Is the historical origins synopsis of Thumper@73 broadly correct?
That is some weapons grade arsehattery from bovarchist, who seems like the kind of person who would go to a serious car accident site and berate the surviviors for not hiring chauffeurs, while proclaiming loudly that the dead goy what the6y deserved.
Well that actually isn’t quite right – ze would actually be much more likely to only blame the Black drivers, and then because the cars they were driving just had to be stolen (because of totally not-at-all-racist reasons), and car thieves deserve whatever they get.
Still, what can one expect from a denizen of that brave bastion of truthiness known as the slymepit…?
Brony @ 96
It gives voice to my fucking outrage. It puts things in fucking perspective. If somebody’s upset over fucking naughty words instead of goddamn murder, I get a really good idea about their priorities.
It’s selective ignorance of the ignorant. The lack of “cooperative black people on film” is likely because nobody starts filming until cops become aggressive without provocation. I’d wager in nearly all those cases, people were cooperative and not belligerent when the cops escalated things unnecessarily and without any cause (e.g. Eric Garner).
And there’s also the fact that it’s hard to be “cooperative” when you’re in pain. How stupid do people have to be (e.g. cops, their bigot defenders) to “think” people will sit still after being violently assaulted with a nightstick or taser? The normal human reaction is to writhe or move away from the pain, but in the eyes of the stupid, that’s “an attempt to escape or assault the cop”. Just ask Rodney King.
@anteprepro
Whatever manipulating our use of profanity is doing for permanaganater, it’s a tool I want to learn to deal with.
@The Mellow Monkey
I was thinking about what permanaganater might be getting out of the attempt to get us to avoid profanity. I did not mean to look like I was wondering what it was doing for you and others around here. If I’m getting my intent wrong I think I’ll just drop it for now.
Not quite.
It all started back with the infamous “guys don’t do that” and “Dear Muslima”.
In the beginning there was…
Abbie Smith of ERV said some nasty things and subsequently hosted the nastiest of the bunch on her blog over at Scienceblogs, with three threads basically dedicated to finding new way to turn Rebecca Watson’s name into misogynist slurs. They were subsequently dubbed the slymepit and shunned by all decent people. When Nat Geo took over they decided they did not want to host three treads basically dedicated to the harassment of RW and others and the Slymepit moved off to their own forum. The whole Thunderfuck affair happened way later here on FtB.
That presupposes there is a such a lack. (I point this out mostly because the original source of the claim (as quoted in the OP) is extremely suspect and not to be trusted on anything.) However, I suspect that is a reasonable presupposition, since — essentially the same point as I quote above — until things start to “get interesting” I suspect the typical bystander will be gawking or ignoring, not filming. This one of the compelling reasons for officers to wear body cameras. Another compelling reason being to help the officers when facing a malicious claim.
In both cases, the recordings must not be under the control of the police, prosecutors, defenders, or courts (all have a history of collusion); but in an independent transparently auditable archive of some sort. One important tricky point, however, would be privacy protection: Despite being recorded by a public officer during the course of a public duty, neither the locations nor the details are necessarily a priori public (e.g., an officer responding to a report of a rape and interviewing the victim or the child witness).
anteprepro #95
What the actual fuck? Some people’s empathy deficiency is just fucking mind boggling. This fuckwitted arsehole is so worried about scoring political points that she is actually gleeful that someone was sexually assaulted because she thinks that proves her point (even though it actually doesn’t). Fuck.
Euhm, Thumper, in that same comment you quote Schlussel literally calls the people behind the Spring revolutions ‘animals’. Yeah, she is one of the more disgusting islamophobes around, I don’t see why she shouldn’t be a hated person.
Regarding resisting arrest:
http://mic.com/articles/105890/one-troubling-statistic-reveals-a-major-problem-with-local-police-departments
http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ardus05.pdf (see table 4 in appendix. Roughly a 3:4 ratio for black deaths during arrest: white deaths during arrest. Compare to arrest rates here: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/aus9010.pdf. Confound is that the former has Hispanic group, also disproportionately killed, while the former has no Hispanic designation. But the arrest ratio, per table 1, for black to white is roughly 2:5. In main population, ratio of black to white is roughly 1:6. What does this mean? Black people are 2.4 times more likely to be arrested, and arrested black people are 1.8 times more likely to be killed during arrest. For a total rate of black people being killed by police at a rate over four times greater than white people. And that’s just a rough estimate using data that is likely an underestimate).
Zenlike
Yeah, I saw that too. I’m not sure why the complete lack of empathy for a woman that had been sexually assaulted hit me so much harder, but it did. Sexual crimes have always got to me, and frankly I spend so much time arguing with Islamophobes on FB that I think I have become desensitized. Which is depressing.
She is undoubtedly deserving of some hatred.
Gilliel: In the beginning there was the words, and the words were with Watson, and the words were “guys don’t do that”. They were in the beginning with Watson, all things came into being through her, and apart from her nothing came into being.
Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened
All three of the people I gave info on are rape apologizing assholes at fucking minimum. Beckel made a joke about gang rape and dismissed the idea that rapes happen on college campuses, and Cohen was a sexual harasser who tried to cover his own tracks. I don’t see the issue with hating people like that.
Using a woman’s encounter with misogyny to score points against Muslims.
Sounds familiar.
anteprepro
Saw them too; Schlussel’s statement just jumped out at me as being particularly bad. I think because of the gleeful tone.
They are all worthy of hatred and the utmost disgust, in my opinion.
anteprepro
Mind reposting 111 here? If you mind, do you mind if I do? If you mind that, too, I can just link to your comment here.
Thumper @… dunno, somewhere up there, haven’t had coffee yet:
The slymepit came into existence before FTB became a thing, back when Pharyngula’s primary home was on scienceblogs; which is also where ERV’s blog was, which is where the slymepit started as a thread to rant about Rebecca Watson and the horrible misandry of saying “guys, don’t do that” (commonly known as Elevatorgate)
Thank you for the suggestion rq. Done.
anyway, that makes the approximate birth-date of the pit somewhere around July 2011. 4 years of continuous bigotry, over one single sentence.
Also rq, you have done an incredibly great job with the police brutality threads. You more or less have singlehandedly provided an incredibly valuable informational resource and I have got to remember to check there FIRST whenever these issues come up again.
anteprepro
Ah, I miss things, such as your posts, and besides, the comments get so much more fun over here. :P
But thanks. I hope to continue for some time yet, in the sense of not being overcome by fatigue rather than it being some stellar, happy-making project.
I hope the long thread is at least useful to someone at some point.
Brony @96:
I agree with you.
Which is one reason I pulled the “you’re not the boss of me and don’t get to dictate how I respond” card.
anteprepro @113:
Wait…does that mean Rebecca Watson is the ground of all being?
__
Like you and many others, I don’t understand this obsession MN has about tone and PZ hating/detesting/despising people who are loathsome human beings. Why is it wrong to say “I hate/detest/despise…Fred Phelps…Ted Nugent…Ann Coulter…Pat Buchanan…Rush Limbaugh…etc”?
Because their skin colour is acceptable and (most of) them aren’t cootie carriers. Also, possibly, because they aren’t foreign, they speak American, they don’t worship a funnily-named foreign faerie, and presumably vote for whoever / whatever Faux & Kochroach Bros. say to vote for.
@rq #94:
Never said white people should not take responsibility.
I certainly feel that this is a problem I have a duty to address.
But I don’t think that sharing the same privilege with some very questionable people makes me guilty of their actions.
https://www.facebook.com/CheButterJones/posts/652899678173635?fref=nf
“How old were you the first time a cop put a gun in your face ?” with a couple hundred responses, mostly in their teens. Fuck me.
Threadrupt and busy, but I had a thought this morning. Part of the militarization of the cops is not just all the equipment, it is the idea that there is an enemy. I referred to it in my #84, but should have put quotes around “defending”. Most cops are talking as if their main job is to fight the “bad” people, as if part of the American populace were the enemy. And they do the whole militaristic psyching-up by putting down, and dang if they don’t imagine all the worst and shoot first.
Menyambal
This might interest you. How police training contributes to avoidable deaths.
F.O.
You’re not quite getting the point. but you’re *this* close.
numerobis#126
That link is …
illuminating
Giliell #107 and Jadehawk #117
Thanks for the corrections :) I have only a shaky grasp of what happened, not having been a commenter at the time.
I did once visit the ‘pit out of curiosity. It is a horrible place, and I do not wish to repeat the experience.
‘Which is technically true, of course, but it does mean that you are tacitly supporting those bigotries. Which is hardly better than actively expressing them.’ (Thumper, 86)
I’ve seen people who seemed superficially OK join horrible forums. One became a mod, and spends his time banning neo-Nazis and deleting the most obviously racist comments. The forum is ‘anti-immigration’ and making it plausibly respectable is more racist in effect than posting rants based on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion would be.
F.O. #125
I didn’t say you’re guilty of his actions.
I just said I’m sorry for all the good white people that someone like him is speaking for you all by saying “act whiter”, i.e. there is some defined way of being called “acting white” that all white people act like. I’m kind of saying the opposite of what you thought I’m saying.
@Saad #132: ugh, sorry.
Poor communication on my part.
I intended just to tease you, I was not actually serious and I definitely didn’t feel any attacked or blamed.
Fail. =(
Menyambal
Exactly! It goes wrong the moment cops see themselves as separate from ‘civilians’. Which is wrong, cops ARE civilians. In think the USA is long past that point, Europe is following and depending on the locale is either getting there or is also past this point.
Threadrupt:
I love you , Tony.
That is all.