Oh, no! I have learned that I’m on a blocklist! I guess I should moan about libel and cry.
Look at what it says about me. I’m a “Level 1 Nasty”:
This level is reserved for the slimiest and ugliest of the women abusers. These people provide a space (usually a blog or website) where women who dissent against them can be abused, dog-piled, lied about, and libelled. It is also reserved to thos who organise petitions to intimidated innocent people yadda yadda yadda.
I guess I should waste the time of some lawyers and demand justice, as some gamergate goons and anti-feminists are doing in response to being put on a block bot, except for one thing: I’m a big boy now. You can call me “slimy” and “ugly” all you want, and I don’t think the insult requires legal redress. I also don’t think that taking your legal advice from Breitbart.com or some demented loon who calls himself the “Witchfinder General” is exactly brilliant. So no, sorry, I would never even consider siccing lawyers on randos on the internet who don’t like me and call me mean names; I do consider it rather pathetic that some people seem to think that being labeled a “troll” is grounds for stomping into a court and wailing about the cruelty and injustice of it all. It looks like at least one lawyer also agrees.
If anyone wants to use that blockbot with my name on it (if it exists; I think it’s just a front used as an excuse to throw out some insults), that’s fine with me. You get to control your experience on the internet, and if someone announces that they want to use a service that blocks ol’ Crankypants Myers, what am I going to do? Tell them no, they have to read my words? Whine that they should have been more polite about it? Jeez. Some of us are grown-ups, you know.
As for the blockbot or the ggautoblocker, I don’t use them. I think they’re a little too crude, and I’d rather make my own decisions about what to read, thank you very much, and am quite willing to block people without anyone else’s help. But at the same time, I entirely understand what’s driving the implementation of these automatated blockers.
The people complaining about them don’t seem to understand the difference between an insult and harassment. The indignant protesters are upset at being called a mean name, and the solution there is easy and obvious: don’t read it. But the people who are using those bots are doing so because they face constant harassment on Twitter — there are people who spend all their time sending floods of abuse at the targets of their hatred (like the fellow who created that list with my name on it — now that’s an asshole who really needs to get a life) and they can create so much garbage in your timeline that it makes the whole service unusable. They don’t even need to call anyone a ‘mean name’: sealioning is a popular tactic, in which you just insist in oh-so-polite terms that your target is a horrible person, and along come all their friends to whine at you.
Being insulted is trivial. Being harassed is serious. If you’re going to complain about being insulted, I expect you to at least recognize that harassment is a much bigger problem to those facing it, and propose solutions to that problem rather than just demanding an immediate shut-down of the current clumsy solutions to persistent abuse because your fee-fees have been hurt.
FTBullies being abusive to women, who are hyperskeptical and intimidate women into silence.
Riiiight.
They should really call this the “NO U!!!” Block bot.
Apparently Level 2 folk engage in the ostrication of brave women. Is that when you forcibly bury someone’s head in the sand?
And of course their lie is transparent. “Exert pressure on conferences”. Exert pressure on conferences to do what ? This is fucking Bizarro World: Where it is abusive and harassment to “pressure conferences” into instating a policy against harassment.
Apparently being called a “chill girl” is abuse.
Also: laughing out loud at “cessballs”.
Also also: I would say that this isn’t meant to be serious is literally just an attempt at mocking us by throwing our same complaints back us. I would say there is no sincere belief that any of these accusations and complaints have any credibility. But these assholes manage to surprise me again and again with their massive amounts of hypocrisy and general idiocy, so it wouldn’t surprise me now if it was meant to be taken seriously.
Level 1 describes Richard Dawkins damn near perfectly.
And riddle me this: if the “#WomenAbusers” alleged bullying and silencing tactics are such a terrible problem, how come these assholes never, ever shut the fuck up and go away?
Yeah, I agree that this “blockbot” is pretty much meaningless and ineffectual — that’s what Sanderson is.
So one doesn’t even have to say anything, nor do anything to be in Level1. Just “provide a space” for the slime to shout at the women, who are provided a space to dissent there. So Level1, the slimiest and ugliest, women abusers, have no active role at all in such abuse, but are labelled as such.
Like blaming paper for providing all that white region for people to scribble insults and slurs upon with ink bearing instruments (pens). Don’t blame the writers of such words, only blame the paper, itself, for providing a space for them to put those words onto a physical object for others to read.
So PZ is not being called a “Nasty” for what he has written, but for providing a “blog”, for readers to add their own words that “attack” and “dogpile” on women, for dissenting with PZ. They don’t even yell at PZ for arguing with dissenters, just providing a space for people to argue amongst themselves.
This does not even approach the whinging about being harassed by what people write about one on the internetz. Just blames him for providing some available space, for people to put some nasty messages on the intertubez, is enough to be blacklisted.
And they are using this “concept” as a defense of women? Flies right over my head.
This one is definitely the ‘No, U!’ list as anteprepro called it.
The anti-feminist brigade definitely seems utterly incapable of telling the difference between the Church Lady pearl-clutching about naughty words like ‘fuck’ and complaining about sexism, racism, and bigoted abuse. Well, they also can’t seem to tell the difference between criticism and vicious bigoted abuse and harassment.
Hmph. I’ve been at FtB since before day one, posting here before it went live, and yet my name shows up nowhere. And I’ve even written about this stuff! (https://proxy.freethought.online/cuttlefish/2012/06/18/poison-in-the-water/)
The ability of the cuttlefish to disappear into its surroundings is unparalleled. I am invisible.
Tangentially, I wish to fuck these people would read some George Orwell before using him as their posterboy. I don’t remember the bit in Animal Farm where Napoleon shows his dictatorial colours by asking the other animals to cool it with the sexism.
What, you mean like Twitter?
Wait, I’m *still* only at level 2 of Sanderson’s imaginary blockbot?
I see you, Cuttlefish! :)
I aspire to be a “pesky little shite”, as they call it. Do they take self-nominations?
Also, do they realize that the “gender traitor” and “sister punisher” epithets came from, and have only been used by, people they claim as their own?
Damn, I’m not on it, now I’m feeling bad about myself.
But I scrolled through Sanderson’s “reaons” for you:
(that’s the very nice Adam Lee)
My very last irony metre broke at:
*which might mean anything. But it is beyond me how that is actually abusing or harassing anybody in and on itself
**AKA “being wittier than me, a feat mouldy bread manages
A truely amazing tool for blocking out views I don’t like while calling them harassers*. Not that the former is wrong, but it’s the same people who complain about the BlockBot saying it’s bad ’cause it blocks out dissenting opinions.
*While even stating yourself that you’re blocking them for things that clearly are not harassment.
This looks to me like one of those clever-reverse “let’s give them a taste of their own medicine” attempts. If you label free speech as ‘harassment’ then we’ll do the same and don’t you look foolish when you complain ha ha. Or when you don’t complain ha ha. Either way the FtB bullies lose for being clueless and rong.
Uhmm… if merely being the admin of a blockbot is abusive to women because some women are on the list that that person doesn’t like…. doesn’t that mean that by adding such women to THIS list that this individual is now a Level 2 threat themselves, and thus must be put onto their own list?
Huh, and here I thought I was just being snarky. Live and learn.
Rowan
Yes, but you’d need to be able to carry a thought fromm midday to noon to arrive at that conclusion
On the one hand, there is the utter idiocy of trying to pretend GG and the anti-FTB crowd are on the side of abused women, the most ridiculous thing I have seen in a long time. Then there is also the fact that these clowns will no longer be able to see the twitter feeds of those people they obsess over, which is the most ridiculous thing I’ve seens since my last sentence.
Oh FFS, “chill girl” is a self-applied label, coined by some rando commenter who wished to differentiate herself from those fun-ruining feminists. Would they really prefer the standard, gender-neutral “misogynist asshole”?
Also, according to Level 3, FtB apparently invented social justice, as anyone who agrees with a social-justice-oriented ideology is simply parroting FtB talking points. These people really don’t have the first fucking clue what they’re talking about, do they? I’m astounded that the degree of solipsism on display isn’t more crippling in terms of day-to-day functioning.
OTOH, if the self declared shiny knights of abused women actually used their bot it might be the single most effective anti-harassment meassure the actual victims of the Slymepit and GG ever got…
If God doesn’t exist, then why is Voltaire’s prayer getting answered so much these days?
Amphiox:
Lies go in, lies come out. Never a communication. You can’t explain that.
I’m going to be accused of sea lioning (I don’t think I understand what this is), or whatever, but is there a difference between insults and abuse besides magnitude? I think there ought to be but I’m at a lost to state what the difference would be. Thoughts?
I don’t really disagree with the post, and anybody can use a block bot, or whatever, to make the internet more workable/enjoyable for themselves. But I wish a difference would have been stated.
I don’t know whether to be frustrated or amused by the phenomenon of social justice jargon being loudly condemned by these douchenozzles, until it becomes widely-understood, at which point they appropriate it to accuse the “other side” of exactly the things they themselves are doing.
“Hyperskepticism! Triggering! Harassment!” It would be a more effective tactic if they had actually bothered to research what any of these things means.
Frankly this didn’t need a response but the best thing would be to refer them to a competent alienist.
michael kellymiecielica
You know, you’d probably have a point if that was what the OP said. Since it was insults and harassment, you should take more care with your reading comprehension.
These are the same people who apparently got super excited about “doxxing” me in one of the FtB threads I was participating in. I had already left the conversation at that point, and didn’t find out until a month later. Someone pointed me to the ‘pitter thread about me. Some ‘pitter was super proud that he had doxxed me until someone was like, “Ummmm, her personal facebook account is linked to her profile at FtB and her facebook uses her real first and last name. She’s never been pseudonymous.” Which is true. I’ve been online since 1989, and since my IRC days in the very early 90’s, my online persona has always been linked to my real life identity. And after all of the on-the-ground activism I did in Phoenix which got my name in the papers and made it easy to connect me to my activism by merely googling my VERY googe-able first and last name … shrug, what’s the point of even trying to hide? And I already went through the whole “revenge porn” thing in 2007 before it was even a thing and it hardly caused a dent in my life.
(I think my FtB profile now links to my twitter, just for some variety, but even that displays my full first name.)
That’s just to say: These people are not very bright. They are only out to “best” those they consider enemies. They have tunnel-vision. They think they are winning even when they aren’t. It would be kind of funny if some of the shit they did wasn’t so fucking evil.
Okay… time to get ready for an interview. Yay!
Oh and I’ve found the block list and will be going through it this evening to find awesome new people to follow on Twitter. So at least it’s handy for that! :)
Verbal abuse includes a wide variety of methods and tactics. It isn’t just about loud, angry, rude or swearing. Per wikipedia (original source here: http://www.ianrpubs.unl.edu/epublic/live/g1814/build/g1814.pdf )
Minimization (very similar to gaslighting) is a type of manipulative abuse, which involves the following additional tactics:
The issue is context. You could likely find a way to count any form of debate or argument as inherently abusive.
Verbal abuse is more than just insulting or mocking: it is the consistent and persistent poisoning of an existing relationship with the goal of control. Cyberbullying classmates is verbal abuse. Perpetuating a sustained harassment campaign against a stranger is verbal abuse. Sealioning someone with a consistent polite barrage of hyperskepticism is minimization and verbal abuse. Telling someone they are a fuckwit or should fuck off is not, inherently, verbal abuse. Depends on context. Magnitude is a factor, but so is quantity, and the nature of the relationship in which the tactics occur. Friends could call each other the most hideous slurs and it could be a perfectly fine relationship, while someone else could be abusive just with the word “stupid”, while another could seem perfectly polite and say no overtly bad words at all and still be abusive.
Exactly. If someone persistently creates Twitter accounts just to @ me and ask me daft social justice questions over and over, I might, after a few months of this treatment, tell them that they are a waste of good carbon, and that they should fuck off and drown themselves in a bucket of steaming wildebeest entrails.
I would be the one using naughty words, but Captain Sealion would be the one harassing me.
I was on GG’s now defunct blockbot list (that they made in response to the anti-GG blockbot). My tears have only now started to subside.
@PZ Myers
Whoa…whoa…whoa…whoa there, Mr. Myers! You better be careful speaking ill about Mr. Sanderson like that, you know? He might just call another boycott / walkout on you and the FtBullies at Convergence, don’t ga’know. You are playing with the
wrathspittle of Sanderson here….he is liable to send out a 1,0000 Mabusqualityquantity level tweets per hour to you, and about you if you dare mock him like so.He’s very, very effective at being meaningless and ineffectual.
Sastra is spot on. That list is a piss poor reactionary attempt to replicate the blockbot. Never mind that fact that FtB has nothing to do with the block bot.
It is the same way that Sanderson and friend natter on about how PZ is covering up a rape accusation. It is a childish attempt to get back at him for posting accusations of Micheal Shermer. “She how you like it!”
Still cannot figure out if most of the people who natter on about this are stupid enough to believe there narrative of if they are jut dishonest jackasses.
(And this post who be played into a “The FtBullies know that everything is crashing down about them and watch as they cry about it!” story. Oh well. I guess it fills their day with a productive activity.)
I find the last line of that whole thing hilarious on many levels.
How appropriate that they’re quoting Orwell.
Thanks for catching my typo. I’ll rephrase. Is there a difference between insults and harassment besides magnitude?
I also, wasn’t trying to make a point. I was simply asking a clarification question which is why I’m going to say thanks anteprepro for the link as it discusses the issue I’m interested in.
Some examples-
insult: “Gods above, you are a fucking asshole.”
Harassment: “Can I ask you a question? Can I ask you a question? Can I ask you this question you’ve already answered? Can I express a lack of understanding and a plea for enlightenment? Can I continue asking you this question? Why are you trying to change the topic when I’m asking a question? Why won’t you give me detailed, but easily found for myself, answers to my totally salient questions? Why are you getting upset? But why are you getting upset? There’s no reason to be upset. You’re being irrational. Why are you getting upset? Why can’t you be polite? Why are you getting so upset? Why would you call me such a mean name? Why are you so mean? You’re mean! You’re mean! You’re mean! You’re mean!… ” ad nauseum
It can include trying discuss your pet peeve in inappropriate threads by threadjacking, constantly imposing their opinions by twitter without response, and by e-mails that go unanswered. It is simply imposing your inane opinion upon others without a real discussion occurring. Bullying by any other name.
Insults can happen during a debate, where they are called fuckwitted idiots when they won’t provide evidence to back up their opinions. Or calling someone misogynist when they can’t say women are their equals.
Oh god, that Breitbart article is rich in fail
Just Disagreeing (TM)
Opposing opposition to oppression is totes skeptical.
Look at us rebelliously skepticizing in favor of the status quo, you guys!
Just Disagreeing 2 (TM) : “Thunderf00t isn’t sexist all” edition
Is Milo supposed to be a journalist or a parody account then?
“Guilty of none of those things”.
Yeah. These people either don’t know what these words mean or haven’t been paying attention to Dawkins. Or they are just talking out of their ass in general.
Right wingers think McCarthy was wrong now? Also: had no idea McCarthyism was all about a list of people to ignore. I thought the list had something to do with alleged Communist sympathizers who were to be thoroughly investigated and subject to legal action under suspicion that they were spies or traitors or some such. Block bot is totally analogous I’m sure.
1. Teach the Controversy!
2. Ideological intolerance….of people who are opposed to Atheism Plus’s ideology of tolerance.
3. Are those sites really “leading blogs”? I have heard of Skeptic Ink, barely, and I have no idea how big Atheist Revolution is right now, but it was a small and uninteresting little molehill back when I started reading atheist blogs (2008-ish).
Still not seeing the problem. What was the oversight? All I see is the typical conservative talking point: “The bigots are the REAL victims here”. Sorry, nice try, but it isn’t any more believable here than when it used in any other context among right-wing assholes bleating about how cruel and nefarious it is to have their bigotry called out as bigotry.
I feel like I’ve really made it in the world now. Or the opposite… *grins*
One of the recurring conversations among those of us who don’t matter and don’t amount to anything is just how petty those pro-harassment folks are. Seriously, when your life is so empty that you’re targeting people like me for even a tiny bit of stalking or abuse, you should really evaluate probably decades of life choices. Anything bad those people have to say about me can be answered by a)”…and yet you have decided to spend time paying attention to me, so what does that say about you?” and b) I have all of them blocked, so I don’t hear what they have to say anyhow.
Maybe a c) for “AND IT ISN’T CENSORSHIP OR INTOLERANCE TO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO YOU, YOU BLOODY IGNORANT WANKERS!” but at this point it is barely worth the bother.
This guy is a joke. First of all, apparently a law student, or so he claims, but he doesn’t seem to know what ‘libel’ means. Secondly, his about:
Isn’t it revealing that some sexist dolt uses the name of a dark age institution which was steeped in sexism? Also, law student but apparently can’t give a fuck about due process?
This guy is hoping to be a lawyer? Damn, the professions doesn’t have a bad enough name already?
Not quite, anym. It’s more like burying one’s head in their own rectum, or the reverse of extrication.
Also, I thought that if you used the blockbot you could always FOLLOW the individual accounts that were added to the Block Bot, if you wanted to follow those voices individually. I could be wrong. The blockbot provides a massive KILLFILE for Twitter users to reduce the useless noise and selectively follow those who they are interested in following (and hearing) from via Twitter.
The issue is that the Blockbot has made it simple to massively SILENCE the user from LISTEN to hyper-skeptical blowhards. Worlds smallest violin. They really should start focusing on more important matters in Atheism like the silencing of atheist voices in other countries by the atheist’s goverment. Once the hyper-skeptical atheists fix all those other more important athiest issues, they then can focus on their first world problems at not being able to use Twitter as they like in order to toss vitrol at a specific individual using the Blockbot.
Of course, they can still, in the meantime, toss vitrol using Twitter. Those using the Blockbot will simply not have to read it. I haz a case of sadzzzz now….. :(
Of course, the real issue that these people have with blocking is the same general problem we’ve seen since they started: they don’t respect boundaries, and are furious that other people set boundaries and expect other people to abide by them. And if someone can’t respect one boundary, they seem to me like the sort of people who would push past other ones too.
I’m not on it? I haz a sadz… :(
On a related note… what gender segregation? What the hell is he talking about?
michael kellymiecielica
May I ask you a question? Is English your first language? This important, because I need the information to make up my mind whether you’re dishonest or honestly not understanding what you’re actually saying.
Giliell,
I doubt it’s an English issue.
It’s just a sea-lioning attempt.
michael, I’m certain you know what harassment is. Go ahead and make your sexist point already.
Oh, I haven’t even really used Twitter in a year and I’ve been on that list for a while.
I got put on it for laughing at Richard Sanderson, the guy who started it.
He’s not too bright.
What a sad bunch of Block Heads.
Saad
I’m giving the benefit of doubt, but you’re probably right.
I think that would apply to a significant proportion of Level 3. Then again, it’s also justified; IIRC, Sanderson was the one who feigned outrage over being referred to as a ‘fellow traveller’ because he claimed it was racist.
Yes, he’s that ignorant.
Wow. Sandersen totes wants Two Cokes with his Freeze Peach.
Apart from creationists, PUAs, Ted Cruz and Sye, is there anyone out there with less self-awareness than an Internet Misogynist™?
Hmm….Richard Dawkins?
What the hell is Sanderson’s problem, anyway? Like, I get that there are a lot of Pitters and Gators and whatnot who are upset at having their privilege and bigotry challenged, but Sanderson seems uniquely obsessed. Just glancing at his Twitter feed you see DOZENS of Tweets PER DAY, almost all about the Block Bot or SJWs or FTBullies or whatever. What goes on in the head of someone who thinks this is the best use of his time and attention? It just seems bizarre to me.
It’s a good question. I felt from the start this was all about entitlement; these assholes believe that people like PZ exist solely to tell them that they’re super-dooper geniuses for realising that gods don’t exist, and resent the fact that instead they’re being told they need to not be assholes towards women.
What drives such a rank pissant to engage in this frothing level of Mabus-esque campaigns, though, is probably a little more complicated than that.
I have to laugh at Sanderson for the simple reason that he is a white man who is using a photo of MLK from The March On Washington. He is not fighting for anyone’s civil rights. On top of that, he refers to himself as “THE KING”.
I shit you not.
This is a Glenn Beck level of delusion.
I’ve been on level 2 since 2013, and it hasn’t given me the slightest concern since that day – but then, I’m only an admin of the Block Bot, and not actually the main object of Sanderson’s pathetic Twitter campaign. Sanderson is a kook and I would love it if he actually would do what his version of the bot’s supposed to do, which is to block and ignore people, rather than what he actually does, which is to creepily and unhealthily obsess for years on end over people who want nothing to do with him. Sadly there seems to be no end in sight where that is concerned, while everyone with a slight dash of sense ignores his sad little #FTBullies hashtags.
It doesn’t even require insults or harassment for some people to get persecution complexes. Laughter, mockery and disdain are often enough to make some to fly off the handle and file lawsuits.
What is wrong with Sanderson? Well two thought experiments:
1. What is wrong with Michael Nugent? He was preoccupied with PZ, posting excessively in quantity and length, for a massive period of time, over a single perceived slight, digging up all the ammo he could to hurt PZ and turn himself into a tremendous hypocrite in the process (Side note: it looks like he finally stopped in the last month or so, at least on his blog. Coincidentally, the number of comments on his most recent posts rarely go above 3).
2. What is wrong MRAs and Pitters? They display something similar to the above but that aside, they are generally hypocritical, unreflective, deliberately offensive and disrespectful of boundaries, and a deeply incompetent group. They have no real principles, but pretend to have them when it is convenient for them, and are essentially defined by the people they oppose. They have privileges they want to defend and seem to want to actually hurt people that resist them. They are mostly guided by selfishness and poorly justified outrage , and are very sloppy and often incoherent, even when playing at being Emotionless Internet Philosopher.
So what’s the deal with Sanderson? Add a dash of Nugent to an actual MRA and it doesn’t take too much imagination to see how you can get there.
I’m confused… is this supposed to be a bad thing? If I used twitter, I’d be more than happy to be on that list. It’d mean I wouldn’t have to worry about the people using the blocker bothering me. They’d be doing all the work for me.
Why are you commenting on this now? I went to Richard Sandersen’s page on storify and this post was from 7 months ago. his only four other posts are from a year ago. I honestly can’t made heads or tails of any of his posts anyway. He has his sides, but doesn’t really give reasons for them. Which is fine, amateurs and professionals alike can have their ad hoc rants from time to time. I have no idea what controversy he’s referencing so he’s clearly not a pro writer, and I just have no idea what’s going on, just a bunch of words flying around, “dicks”, “atheists”, “feminists”, “bigot”. What the hell is anyone talking about.
gamesharkgary: It’s being brought up in the context of two related recent issues.
1. Gamergaters getting huffy about their FREE SPEECH being infringed upon by Gamergater specific block bots.
2. The original Block Bot (targeting rabid anti-feminists like RS) recently crying out “LIBEL” in response to the rationale/tags used on a list briefly explaining why any given user is selected for blocking (Richard Dawkins has also been prominent among those complaining).
Richard Sanderson is that kid at school who desperately tried to keep the bully amused to avoid being the victim. Unfortunately, most of the people he’s sucking up to are also that same kid.
There seems to be one good thing about the lists: there appears to be equality between men and women, especially on levels 1 and 2. So is the guy an equal opportunity asswipe?
What are these “#Baboon tropes about Dawkins” of which he speaks?
By the way, “sealioning” is not a term I’m familiar with; presumably it happened during my year-long hiatus from Pharyngula. Some Googling leads me to believe it involves repeatedly asking the same question as a form of harassment. Have I understood that right?
Sealioning?
Here ya go. http://wondermark.com/1k62/
Thumper:
Not necessarily the same question, but basically yes. Persistence and faux civility are the key elements, as I understand it. I suppose hyperskepticism and philosophical posturing are also related.
@mildlymagnicificent and anteprepro
Ah, ta very much :) with you now. It seems very closely related to JAQing off.
Looking for those gray areas, aren’t you? Something about this ridiculous projection to quibble over? Of course. There’s always at least one in every thread about a women being hurt.
Here’s the thing, I don’t believe for a second you’d miss the difference if you were being harassed. Just like men who ask if X, Y, or Z are reeeeally rape would know the difference between consent and rape if it was happening to them.
a women?
Oops
Latsot@11:
*Envious*. I’ve been languishing down there at level 3 for months.