It seems to me that there is a significant difference between maintaining internet anonymity to prevent being harassed, vs. anonymity used to enable harassment. But this distinction is routinely ignored, especially by the harassers, who just lump violating either into the category of the most sacrilegious of all internet violations, the total desecration of the holiest principle of all communication, doxxing. I suspect the only reason that “doxxing” has been elevated to such a sacred level of knee-jerk abhorrence is not out of some virtuous desire to protect the innocent, but entirely to protect the guilty.
So we now have a situation where there is a hierarchy of crimes, with “revealing the identity of a troll” at the very top of the list, followed by “giving a damn about social justice” just below that, and somewhere near the bottom, “threatening to rape and murder a woman and her family”. It’s upside down. It needs a polarity reversal.
The current ass-backwards attitude leads to deranged nonsense like this.
#gamergate just wants to be able to incite death threats + not have people speak up abt it. is that so much to ask?! pic.twitter.com/GPfUJOq6Ox
— srh (@srhbutts) December 12, 2014
Feminists, don’t repost death threats you receive. It’s clear you do not feel threatened and just want to force #gamergate to look bad.
Making #gamergate look bad: the worst. Threatening to murder people: just having fun, shut up and accept it.
I agree completely with Rebecca Watson. Sometimes doxxing is bad, if you’re using it to harm someone. Sometimes doxxing is good, if you’re exposing some rotten slime that has been skulking about trying to harm people. Don’t go out of your way to hunt down and reveal the identities of random anonymous posters, but if someone is using their anonymous account to make life miserable for others, yes: dox the hell out of ’em. Make them take responsibility for their actions. For several years now I’ve had that notice on my blog that sending threats to me risks getting your address and IP number published, and I’ll add that if I get the names of any of the assholes — and there are many of them — who have been engaged in the long-running pattern of hostile harassment of women and minorities in the atheist movement, I won’t have the slightest compunction about posting that information.
Such a good example of how transparent these shits are. If this person really believed that the feminists don’t feel threatened, they’d be telling GGers not to send death threats because it makes GG look bad. But they know their targets do feel threatened and that is, of course, the entire point of GG. Hence, admonishing victims to STFU about the harassment.
Just as anonymity is not inherently suspicious, it is not inherently meritorious. If someone goes out of their way to harm people and uses anonymity as a shield against accountability for public actions, the community has good reason to protect its members by removing that anonymity. We don’t want our internet communities to be havens for scum.
The internet bullies don’t want to be exposed for what they are, misogynist scum. They delusionly think they are protecting themselves by threatening others.
Word to them, don’t want to be exposed as a bully, don’t be one in the first place.
Oh, they know that actual doxxing is wrong (seeking out and then publicizing private information like name, address, and so on to a demented hate group that means the person harm) and that merely reposting someone’s twitter post sending hate or posting a hate email or facebook message isn’t.
They just don’t care, because their entire movement is about constant bad faith arguments designed to constrain and overwhelm their targets as much as possible and limit their ability to fight back and expose the people doing direct harm to them.
It’s about exploiting power in order to set up a bully’s dream scenario, where they have carte blanche to do whatever horrible thing they want and their victim is rendered incapable of responding in turn lest they be piled on more or become at risk from a third party or otherwise harm legal efforts against the person.
It’s like abusers who consistently violate restraining orders and wait to see if their victim thus harms the case against them by doing something outside of legally recommended actions or like cops who ever expand the definition of resisting arrest so that just not being altogether happy about a bullshit hassling becomes this “additional” or “genuine” crime deserving of ill treatment.
And its part of the Gamergators general strategy of making up whatever shit they can and seeing if any of it sticks in order to make the general climate for the people they’ve decided shouldn’t have successful careers find it more toxic and painful to keep standing up for themselves and thus burn out and disappear… or get murdered.
It’s a general problem these days with conservative personalities, because they’ve quickly realized that many liberal-minded people want to be fair and respectful to people they disagree with and so will try and understand and respect another person’s arguments, so you can get a lot of mileage of making up some bullshit that you don’t care about to argue about and thus hide the real thing driving your actions from debate and thus not risk having to be introspective about that.
It’s why bad faith arguments are so popular with these libertarian fedorakin, anti-choicers, and various right-wing personalities. Because if we’re countering bullshit, we’re not getting to the deeper beliefs and battles that are actually driving this shit (in these cases, a fear of losing in toxic masculinity by having women and queers become more common and visible in a hobby one enjoys mostly because it is viewed as an alternative route to “manliness” beyond physical strength, desire to be brought back to the 1950s where knocking a woman up was a route to getting her under control and unable to pursue middle-class and up work, and fear of having to actually defend bigotry and possibly being educated by other people’s real life experiences in such a way that they’d have to get real jobs instead of making 6+ figures just to rant about the afflicted for the comfort of the comfortable.
But I think the Gators are a particularly epic example of that bad faith model brought to heel and a large part of that is because the chan culture that spawned it is built on a framework of normalizing bad faith and demonizing humanizing people or arguing in good faith.
Yep, facing consequences of their actions. Worst thing ever. Like permanent toddlers who throw a temper tantrum because, since they were caught with their hand in cookie jar aren’t getting dessert. It’s soooooo unfair and a human rights abuse.
If people knew what shit they spew on the internet, they might judge them!
I must object. To the people who operate on this principle, such threats are not a crime but a common, everyday means of expressing their disapproval. It would not be listed at all. It’s their version of Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam, to be added to any remark, point or argument on any topic the speaker was orignally addressing. In this case, it would be more along the lines of, “Furthermore, I am of the opinion you should be ravaged, beaten to death and your corpse burnt as part of a public display.” Cato would be proud.
It’s still backwards in more than one sense though.
Whether or not it is a crime, a threat is a hostile act, that of a bully, and should be censored by everybody as what it is. A temper tantrum from somebody who can’t stand to have people like women disagree with them. It hurts their fee-fees, poor deedums.
How is it clear that the victims don’t feel threatened? One of the signs of a total lack of empathy is “knowing” exactly what is being thought by someone completely different.
Re #7, Nerd of Redhead:
Just to clarify, I feel no different than you on this matter. It is despiccable behaviour which should never be considered as something normal, to be accepted or even just tolerated.
Menyabal
Nonono, you’re getting that totally wrong. They’re so emphatic that they totally know what you’re feeling even better than you yourself!
Menyabal
Because, to some people, intent really IS magic.
Strange. It’s almost as if the Gaters realise that what they do is wrong.
Cerberus unleashed more truth (and infinitely better ethics, natch) in #4 than the GG cretin-army has managed throughout the execrable entirety of their ersatz crusade.
::snort::
Fedorakin — priceless.
Cerberus is working overtime at the outrage factory @ 4;
Quoted for truth. The gamer gate brigade and all their misogynist fellow travellers (not to mention many other figures on the political right, as you correctly point out) try to push the boundaries of what they can get away with as a standard strategem. It is just another way of trying to shift the Overton Window that much further toward their ideal society, where they can harrass and intimidate anyone they despise – especially women who think for themselves – with impunity. And in all too many cases, also create a situation where they can live out their repugnant rape fantasies with even less fear of consequence than they face at the moment.
You have covered everything I wanted to say on the matter, and like Arren ›‹ neverbound @ 13, I would also like to shamelessly steal ‘libertarian fedorakin’. I love the combination of the Dune reference paired with the now infamous headgear.
Of course, some idiot will doubtless try to claim it is hate speech or something. You can’t mock the ‘gaters because freeze peach and precious man fee-fees, dontchaknow…
the only quibble I would have with any of the posts on this subject is I have a hard time seeing this as an organized effort.
It sounds to me much more like a mob that is being incited by a few of loud assholes who are only able to say what they say from the protection of the anonymity of the mob, hence their reaction to having their identity made public. I doubt very seriously that many even care about the issues as much as they care about the anger and potential violence they are so infatuated with.
heavens to bells if they are actually asked to think very much about what they are saying and to stand by it.
uncle frogy
Depends on what you mean by “organized effort”, unclefrogy #15.
Organised in the institutional sense:
Is there a central Team Harassment membership register or dues to be paid? No. There is “only” a noisy coalescence of harassment-minded individuals with an internet connection and time on their hands.
Organised in the sharing plans of attack sense:
Are there sewerish channels on the internet where harassment-minded individuals gather to strategise, gloat and hatewank about how best to optimise the distress they can cause to people whom they have decided need to STFU? Yes. David Futrelle documents them over at We Hunted The Mammoth as part of his monitoring of the New Misogyny.
I have no doubt that those who see themselves as being the natural leaders of their Noble cause do communicate and hold wank sessions were they stroke each other and try to out do each other in toughness (vileness_) but it is an unruly mob at the heart and it is the larger mob they are trying to control. I see no sign that these groups accept any of their number as the true leader. Only their own angry resentful themselves safe in individual anonymity will they follow.
uncle frogy
It is the feminists that must stop reposting the threats, instead of GGers stop writing threats, because “boys will be boys”. It is their culture.
As usual, anti-feminists have a worse opinion of men than the feminists.
Thanks for saving me the effort of describing your attitude, and lack of cogency tantrum thrower.
justinlittle @ 18
Skep Tickle published her own fucking information, announced where she works and invited people to Google her name to verify. She attached her real name to her online activities 100% voluntarily. She was not fucking doxxed and you don’t get to be indignant that people fucking remember it.
Sending rape or death threats or harassing someone is not a subjective thing. You’re either doing it or you’re not. If you’re doing it, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy.
This from someone with no honesty and integrity? You only deserve to be point at and laughed at, for your idiocy, and failure to understand the difference between expressing an opinion in a polite manner, and harassment by threats, which isn’t expressing an opinion, but bullying and throwing temper tantrums.
It is simple. Don’t want to be doxxed. Don’t threaten anybody. And the arbiter of what is a threat isn’t you, or the MRA/PUA fuckwits, but rather those who do understand that rape and murder are threats, not jokes.
justinlittle @ 23
The businesses and organizations who are forever firing people for shit they do in their off time would beg to differ. The simple fact that you think it’s unacceptable belies your claim that she didn’t do anything inappropriate. If she’d just made a harmless joke about PZ, y’all wouldn’t have your collective knickers in a bunch over the idea that someone might tell her employer.
I absolutely love when I hear about someone forwards these messages to the sender’s parents, boss, college, etc. Just love it.
justinlittle, #18
You think rape and death threats to women for being into gaming is a “subjective view”.
What else do you want me to call you?
justinlittle @ 23
I care about shit that’s actually happening not some ridiculous thing that “some people” might claim was harassment. Further, if you were repeatedly tweeting “God doesn’t exist” at a religious person who had asked you to stop, that would, in fact, be harassment. Harassment is any interaction that you won’t stop when asked.
Death threats, rape threats, telling someone you know where their parents live aren’t harassment. Dumb misogynist fuck. Piss off.
@ Seven of Mine:
Indeed. I’m constantly amused by the presumption that “doxxing” is an act sufficient to cause harm when there’s actually somewhat of a decision involved. Presumably one’s employer would check to see if you actually threatened/defamed someone before firing you.
Oh, right, I forgot. Employers everywhere are terrified of the PC-police/SJW-cops and have no choice — no choice — but to immediately fire any employee the moment any complaint comes in. *snort*.
@ justinlittle, 23:
It’s pretty easy to read between the lines, you asshole.
Prima facie evidence of your lack of cogency, presuppositional fuckwittery, and dishonest tactics. Harassment is behavior which causes distress in others, especially when repeated. Not a problem. You will find it in any sexual harassment training…..
There is no way to express such opinions as yours in a polite manner. The subject is offensive to folks who know you lies, bullshit, and misogyny.
justinlittle #26:
You appear to be confusing ‘not using rude words’ with ‘being polite.’
You might want to familiarise yourself with the rules and recommended attitudes for commenters on this blog.
Note how the nastiest villains in movies often express their threats most politely. Doing so is worse than blunt threats. The best at it (thinking of Charlton Heston’s Cardinal Richelieu in the 1973 Three Musketeers movie) don’t even utter the threat.
justinlittle #18
Go fuck yourself, and have a Wonderful Day.
justinlittle @26
Just because you didn’t use coarse language doesn’t mean we should treat your odious misogyny as anything but shit emanating from your asshole.
You’re trying to justify threats and harassment. Whining about how mean we are to you will not make us ease up on you. Quite the contrary.
You’ve lied about Skeptickle (she doxxed herself). Lying is not a sign of honesty or integrity.
Nobody has actually called you a racist or a rapist. Don’t anticipate trouble. Unless, of course, you know that you’ll be expressing racist and rapist sentiments before you leave here. Also as I said before, just because you use polite language doesn’t mean your thoughts aren’t loathsome.
Apparently justinlittle has very little idea of the concept of ‘medical ethics’.
I am a veterinary technician. I have a code of ethics I have to follow. If I told someone that I hoped something horrible happened to their pet, or them, and my boss was told I would *absolutely* deserve a write up or to be fired, because I would have knowingly, consciously, and willingly violated that medical code of ethics.
Skepticle knowingly, consciously, and willingly violated her much stricter code of ethics. She tossed “First, do no harm” right out the window because of a *grudge*, because she doesn’t like the fact that people like me won’t put up with being sexually harassed. She did a bad thing, that she knew was a bad thing, but she didn’t care because her level of vindictiveness apparently knows no bounds.
So not only did she NOT get doxxed, but instead willingly let her public and private personas be merged, but she used her status as a medical profession to ‘hint hint, nudge nudge, wink wink’ say that PZ had a venereal disease, and had been unfaithful to his wife, all based on a few words about his knee.
That is outright, hands down, no questions possible, EXTREMELY UNETHICAL and UNBECOMING HER PROFESSION.
justinlittle,
There is such a thing as ‘context’, you know. A blogpost arguing that blasfemers should NOT be jailed does not mean the poster thinks jailing people should NEVER be done.
And yes, there is a clear line here: harrasment is ILLEGAL.
Also, get of your fucking cross you passive-agressive troll.
justinlittle @ 18:
I just wanted to touch on this point really quickly (because it apparently has to be said to every single person arguing in this direction:
If you think this is a trial, you know you must wait to be called to testify. If you believe you can speak freely, then you know this isn’t a trial, and therefore there is no judge and no jury.
You can’t believe both – make up your mind.
Oh, and also:
I have no idea if you’re any of these things, and therefore have no intention of saying that you are.
I will say that you’re trying to make things more comfortable for that kind of person, though. I’m sure you have your reasons for that. And I’m sure they’re way more important than the comfort of the harassed women, because reasons.
…right?
Then, at 26:
Saying that the internet should be a more comfortable place for people who threaten and harass women doesn’t actually become a nice thing to say just because you say it politely. Politeness doesn’t equal morality. This is another obvious thing people on your side of the argument need explained to them over and over and over.
Huh! justinlittle made my point for me! I was going to talk about the difference between a member of an oppressed group using anonymity to speak out against their oppression so they don’t face harassment in their private lives and
a person using anonymity to harass others so people in their private life don’t find out about their behavior. So often people like justinlittle come in and decide if exposing the former is wrong, then the latter is wrong. They make “doxxing” itself universally wrong without looking at the context.
Man, I tell yah, these sea lions…
So full of win!
Public shaming – exactly what they deserve.
You performed all the pointless rituals correctly, and now you’re unhappy that we don’t praise you for that?
Seriously?
Yes, YOUR position isn’t rational to hold. The recipient decides whether or not your threats are harassment. Didn’t you ever take sexual harassment in the workplace training and paid attention? I don’t think so Tim.
This is the basic problem with the anti-feminists. They don’t define anything. It is already defined for them, and they, like you, ARE WRONG.
Why is legal action so important to your argument. It has nothing to do with the morality of sending deliberately harassing/bullying messages and posts. Which you are backing….
justinlittle #45
1. “doxx” of a harasser (to stop harassment) = OK.
2. “doxx” as a form of harassment or to incite harassment = Not OK.
3. Go fuck yourself, and have a Wonderful Day.
Aww, look at the stupid fucking troll mixing up feminism and chivalry.
Justinlittle is defending a woman who released her own name on line and violated her own professional oath of conduct.
As for being against send harassing messages to people, please, start telling people like Mykeru to stop encouraging pile-ons.
there is a hierarchy of crimes, with “revealing the identity of a troll” at the very top of the list
I bet the trolls made that hierarchy. Do I win anything?
Goddammit. I had a great reply and my comp ate it. Fucking reboot.
Where was I?
——–
Oh yes, that phrasing that Skeptickle used is designed to make anyone one who reads it come to the exact conclusion that she insists she isn’t making. With the added bonus of plausible deniability if she were to get called out on it.
So, no in no way do I think that she wants intentionally leading readers to her nasty, vindictive conclusion.
Also, when you come in here with a comment like
What the hell else are we supposed to think? You functionally labeled your very first post with a helpful “Hi, I’m arguing in bad faith, but I was “polite” so nayah”
I don’t know about anyone else, but my bingo card is filling up fast. Shut up justin, you brought a fart cushion to a battle of wits. You’ve got nothing we haven’t heard a hundred times before.
Who gives a shit about your lying & fuckwitted opinions. They are all an excuse to make those who want the MRA/PUA fuckwits who harass over the internet to pay for their bad actions. And you, by your attempts to put smoke into the arguments, are abetting. them.
If they should pay, shut the fuck up.
If you are trying to obfuscate, keep talking.
Ah blast it all I previewed too.
“So, no in no way do I think that she wants intentionally leading readers to her nasty, vindictive conclusion.”
Should read “So, no, in no way do I believe she wasn’t intentionally leading her readers to her nasty, vindictive conclusion.”
And there’s an extra “one” in that first sentence.
All hail Tpyos, She of the Extra Words.
Goddamn motherfucking hell. Justin Little is one of the long-term harassers on twitter, a big fan of the slymepit, someone who obsessively follows and snipes at feminists. He’s a wretched scumbag; all of his comments have been deleted, and he has been banned. Dishonest is too strong a word for him — he has a history of at least a year of trash-talking us, and now he’s on twitter piously declaiming how fucking polite he has been. Liar.
He’s exactly the kind of slimeball I’m talking about in this post.
A bacon sammich and a glass of swill/tankard of grog at the Pharyngula Saloon and Spanking Parlor, Patricia, Princess of Pullets, Proprietor.
Is this doxxing? I’m into it.
Whereas I find it irritating that apparently literally every sartorial choice I personally find aesthetically appealing seems to be first picked up by a handful of douchebags, and then retconned into being a badge of douchebaggery and handed to the douchebags on a golden platter to be their exclusive property.
Also it’s shallow as fuck.
My boyfriend wears a fedora. He also is a little bitter about it now being ‘the’ symbol of asshattery.
My boyfriend wears a fedora. He also is a little bitter about it now being ‘the’ symbol of asshattery.
He can take a cowboy hat and steam-form the front down so it’s shaped like a fedora, thereby avoiding all the hipster toxins but throwing a head-feint to the country/western crowd and, if anyone asks him, he can just say he’s a fan of Townes.
I’m annoyed because what these douchebags are usually wearing is a trilby, not a fedora.
It’s not just the fedora. So far, the list includes: both goatee-variant facial hair and “patchy” beards (with my follicle patterns and face shape, those are my only options that don’t make me look like Dudley Dursley….15 year old Dudley Dursley); long/”trench” coats; fedoras and similar hats (who knows, panama hats are probably next); sandals that aren’t flip-flops; denim shorts; wearing mostly black; suspenders seem to be marginal; I’ve been told that short-sleeve button-up shirts are “creepy”….
I missed the whole justinlittle thing.
But I’m into the sartorial criticism, because I wear jeans, plaid shirts and a baseball cap.
as I have done for 40+ years.
I do own a proper Indiana Jones hat but it just doesn’t go with the down parka.
Re: fashion, you have to ask yourself why these things are appealing to them as they are to you, just as you have to wonder why identifying as a gamer, atheist, or philosopher are so appealing to jerkwads as well. None of these things are inherently bad, or caused by or causative to being a jerkwad. But there’s an extremely high correlation, and all of us are stuck with them.
At least with fashion, you’re free to look for something else. I feel like you don’t have a choice about your interests and beliefs. I’m not going to able to make myself find minerals more interesting than animals just as I can’t make myself believe something as inimical to the natural function of my mind as theism. But I could find different clothes that I’d still consider cool.
Aww, the troll is gone, but I wanted to comment that it’s interesting that he seems to have treated death/rape threats as just something that naturally happens, that the only person who should take action when they inexplicably occur is the one who’s being threatened. Never did it seem to have crossed his mind that the people sending the threats have a moral responsibility to not send threats.
It’s the same logic of the rape apologist, I’d have to say. And the authoritarians who justify killer cops. It’s never on the person who’s actually hurting or oppressing others to take responsibility and stop their actions; it’s always up to the marginalized person to react to bad behavior that comes magically out of the ether.
A remarkable pair of sentences. They admit that
– death threats have been issued to feminists, by GGers;
– being caught making death threats makes the group look bad.
Thus it is acknowledged that death threats are bad, and hence that the association with them should be avoided – but only because they taint the name of GamerGate, not because of the actual damage threats can do. An amazingly selfish view.
@69 : At the age of 57 I am sadly unamazed at the selfishness of some members of homo sapiens.
I’m trying to come up with something like “fedorakin”, but all I can manage is “trilbyter”, or maybe “trilbyote”.
“hat”
I agree. I couldn’t believe everywhere I looked seemed to have people I generally agree with saying “I can’t believe Anita would publish emails from people who threatened and harassed her without blurring the emails and IPs!”. Mind boggling. All they would have to do is a.) not fucking send threatening emails to women or b.) continue to be a piece of shit but just don’t reveal your email/IP while doing so.
Believe me, you don’t want to read what Justin Little wrote. It was the old trope of applying the same rules to everyone.
Pulled this out, because it’s dead on. What an excellent summary of these scumbags’ MO.
@ Ryan Cunningham
Pulled this out, because it’s dead on.
Apparently, the discussion goes like this:
1. You work in species conservation, specifically with bears.
2. You write thoughtful essays on why it is wrong to kill bears.
3. You also explain the exact circumstances under which it is permissible to kill a bear, like when it’s a direct threat to your life or when a bear is badly hurt and an authorised person puts it out of its misery.
4. Some asshole tracks down a bear and shoots it for pure fun.
5. People are now angry at you. Somehow this is your fault.
If death threats clearly don’t make feminists feel threatened, what is the damn point of writing the death threats? Are the boys just gibbering? Writing fairy incantations like pointless poetry? Waving their fingers over their keyboards to balance their chakras? Why write and send a death threat, then write another message saying that it was useless posturing? Are they wanting the world to know how ineffectual they are?
I mean, I don’t write messages to physicists saying that I have a viable alternative to string theory, then get huffy when they take me seriously.
Oh, joy. I woke up this morning to find one of these idiots has been spamming grisly crime scene photos to my twitter account.
PZ Myers # 79:
But the important thing is, was he being polite while doing it? If so, you obviously shouldn’t be bothered.
And they wonder why they are ignored, blocked, and doxxed? They only have intimidation, which isn’t an argument. Their feeble and illogical voices being exposed and dismissed is the worst punishment they endure.
It was rather disgusting and horrific, and unfortunately my iPad twitter client is terrible (any recommendations?) and has no option to completely remove offensive tweets from my timeline…although I did instantly block the asshole, so there won’t be any more of that crap forthcoming from that account.
Then I had to wait for incoming messages to push it down the list and off the screen. Which took about a whole 3 minutes.
Menyambal (#78)
They’re trying to have it both ways, just like Karl Rove. That ratfucker made the same argument in defense of waterboarding, saying it’s not torture because it’s designed so it won’t actually drown the victim completely. They all want to be able to do harm without being held accountable for it because they refrained from following through all the way.
Well, at least Rove didn’t try to claim it was a medical procedure. Cheney officially wins the ultimate scumbag award. In his twisted mind, the public would buy the shipment that not only was it not torture, it was done to help the poor detainees.
“Shipment?” That’s not even close to “argument.” Thanks iPhone.
Game dev here, for about 15 years. These assholes are sucking the joy from my work. They’re attempting to police what critique I can have as an artist.. they are, basically, censoring. Using a position of authority and privilege to silence their opponents.
They want to tell me who I can make art for. Fuck them.
See… when Felicia day was doxxed… it was to make her afraid of stalkers, and threats.
When they’re doxxed (And it wasn’t even actually doxing in the example case, since it was information she posted before.) it’s out of fear of their bad and criminal behavior being discovered by their friends, families and employers…
Those two things aren’t equal. Not even close.
I would say they have no authority, and know it. But they try to pretend with loudness what they can’t show by regular means. They are scared of not being listened to, in fact paranoid about it. They are scared they have lost what they perceive should be their privileges.
There’s some similarity to the guys’s attitude about sex and rape. The guys want women to be completely responsible, no matter how drunk amd manipulated, while guys get consequence-free sex no matter what. And they want women to be at fault no matter what happens on the internet, while guys can spray anything anywhere and get praised for it.
Or something like that. I am really tired.
On a purely “missing the point” level, these people aren’t even that good at hiding their identities. I for one can’t be exposed in this way. Look as hard as you are able, you’ll not find even a glimmer of light.
So, if I’ve got this right, what Rebecca is saying is that there is a difference between doxxing and tattling.
drken,
Isn’t tattling when an 8-year old tells the teacher that another 8-year old has told a dirty joke?
She was talking about death threats and harassment.
But I know you know that. You’re not fooling anyone. :)
Reporting someone broke into your house/car/garage. That’s tattling too, right?
No, drken, doxxing and tattling are NOT the same. Anyone out of grade-school can tell the difference.
@Saad 92:
I guess I should have used “scare quotes” to show I was using “tattling” facetiously. But no, tattling is when an 8-year old tells the teacher the name of the other 8-year old who told everybody else the teacher’s home phone number resulting in the teacher getting prank calls at 3am. In this case, the tattler has tattled on the doxxer, which should make the distinction clear. The result is that the doxxer (and everybody else) knows they cannot trust the tattler to cover for them. I’m sure Rebecca can live with Skeptickle not trusting her to “be cool”, when she wants to spread rumors about people.
@Crimson Clupeidae #93:
Actually, it would only apply if you named the person who did it. But, yes there are those who would say that is tattling, although they would use the word “rat” or “snitch”.
@Raging Bee #94
Yes, I understand the difference, which is why i don’t have a problem with Rebecca ‘outing’ Skeptickle.
I tried to be succinct and clever, I guess I failed. But, I still think my analogy holds.
Haha, Justin is hawking a video where he appears to be about to burst into tears at any moment over the terrible injustice of his email address and IP being posted here! And they call feminists “professional victims” … A 20 minute video by the way, all about an *IP* and an *email* … Mind boggled.
Whiners gotta whine… he also seems to believe that PZ has no influence, since no one has written to him out of the blue despite the publication of his e-mail address in this thread. Somehow, I think there is quite a different explanation for this dearth of attention.
https://twitter.com/Justin_G_Little/status/544502708523520000
The point of “bad” doxxing is to outsource attacks and harassment. The rationale goes, “I lack the disposition, the resources or the gumption to cause damage to this person myself, so I’ll publish all this personal info in the hopes that someone angrier, more dedicated or more unhinged than I am does something bad to them”.
Revealing someone’s identity so they can be held responsible for attacking other people under a pseudonym is NOT the same thing.
I wondered why a whiny comment appeared in the Lounge demanding that PZ remove Justin’s information (I believe PZ deleted the Lounge comment). Now I know. Either Justin himself, or one of his scum-buddies thought that making such a demand of PZ would accomplish anything.
Nah, you’re all wrong. Doxxing is just wrong when it happens to _them_.
It’s the defining mark of all cliques. If they dish it out, it’s all fine and dandy, if they’re on the reciving end… “Waaaaah! They’re mean to me!”