That makes it more credible, doesn’t it? Oh, I see that’s one of the 25 points.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
That makes it more credible, doesn’t it? Oh, I see that’s one of the 25 points.
Transcript at Feminist Frequency:
Well, if I know anything about our current culture, this educational film will be met with mild interest and approval!
“all people of all genders”
It’s really good to see somebody not fuck that one up for once
Another video? Didn’t she promise only to make five? SHE’S MISUSING HER KICKSTARTER FUNDS.
Johnathan Mann and his purple shirt was in that video! Woohoo!
Seeing all these guys who get it makes me very happy.
Do you know who has a woman in it? Male chauvinist pig FIFA presented Puskas Award for the most beautiful goal of last year. We are talking football here, what you Americans call soccer.
http://www.fifa.com/ballon-dor/puskas-award/video=2463789/index.html
Stephanie Roche’s goal IS a first class beauty. She accepts a pass with her right foot, brings the ball over to her left one, gives the ball a curve, turns 180 degrees and without the ball even hitting the ground she scores. Somebody should turn it into an animation. She being female is hence NOT the most important reason she deserves to win. But all Colombians will vote for James, all Dutch (but me) for Van Persie and there aren’t that many Irish. Fortunately there are a lot of women worldwide. And I can tell you, if Roche had been a famous man she absolutely would have won.
So, am I supposed to be pleased at that sort of reaction, or not? ;-)
Also? Mmmm, purple.
After a day spent arguing in circles with people who really really want to legally be able to chop bits off infants’ genitals, this was a nice pick-me-up.
mnb0, thanks for the link. That was a beautiful goal.
Dang, that was sheer artistry.
I voted for it. That was amazing goal and a display of incredible skill on her part.
I like the way that video cuts straight to the chase, showing all the things we take for granted when gaming as men, and how they don’t apply to women. For any clueless gits who might be watching the video: this is the definition of privilege.
@mnb0
Let’s be fair, people weigh all kinds of stuff when making lists of best goals, and the team/league/perceived skill of the player are big factors, because sometimes people score crazy flukes. Hell, a nobody from a second tier team from England once scored a banana volley (like Roberto Carlos’ famous banana free kick, but with the ball in the air), and it didn’t even make the award that year. Long story short, any “most beautiful goal” award is gonna be a highly subjective hot mess and there’s a lot more than sexism (though certainly there is sexism) at play.
(just as an example, I believe that goal would have much greater chances of being voted the best if someone like Marta had scored it)
Princeton Eating Club Ousts 2 Officers Over Emails Ridiculing Women
Videos like this give me a glimmer of hope that, by the time my daughter starts entering the video game community, she won’t have to put up with the harassment that this generation of women have to put up with.
It’s a great video and made some very good points. There needs to be a “25 Invisible Benefits of being a christian in the USA” video too.
This site has a good critique of this video: http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Shinta/re-25-invisible-benefits-of-gaming-while-male-284532.phtml
Basically it says that most of the points are just repeating #3, which is about being harassed online. I totally agree. This list should have been like half as long.
Sarah, #18
That is a pretty good critique. At five minutes length, the video has become too long by breaking down into separate points the different ways women are harassed. That was my very first thought when I watched it.
*ocular rolling*
@Sarah #18
Your link must be broken, because all I get is complete nonsense like this:
Or maybe they took down the original critique because it was too logical?
Chun Li, Samus Aran, reboot Lara Croft, Amanda Ripley, Lilith, Maya, Athena, The Jedi Exile, FemShep, Mirth, Marle (Princess Nadia), Lucca, Ayla, Rachel Radcliff.
There are also the women of Dead or Alive and Soul Calibur, yes many of them don’t where clothing that suits hand to hand combat, much less mammary support, but they are still strong, tough girls who go fight toe to toe with any man.
@originalantigenicsin
And how is it nonsense? Show us your critique of their critique.
Ranzoid, #21
And there are plenty of black men whose causes of death aren’t gunshot by police officer. Your point?
Fuck off.
#18
What I gather from the “critique”:
1) Gaming culture is shitty, that’s never gonna change, so there’s no point complaining.
2) Things have already changed, so stop complaining about sexism.
3) Games might change some day to become more inclusive if you just convince industry to do something about it, as long as it doesn’t include complaining about sexism.
4) Harassment is BAD, everyone knows that, but if you mention more than one form of it I’ll stop listening.
5) Dear Muslima, #firstworldproblems blablablah
The mentions of intersectionality are certainly a plus, but they were cancelled off by the blatant references to gamerg8. I mean, at least put some effort not to offer such blatant giveaways.
@Saad
My point is that you are flogging a dead horse. The game industry has already gotten wise that there is a problem with the way it’s treats female characters and female gamers. Developers know that more and more women are making up a larger chunk of the market so that are making female characters that are less sexualized and more independent and relaying less and less on traditional story telling techniques. The character of Lilith in Borderlands 2 becomes a Damsel during the games last act, however it is balanced out by the option of the player taking control of another female character. Lara Croft has turned from a boobastic barbie doll to a more realistic proportion women (needed it be pointed out that the lead story writer of the rebooted Tome Raider is a women, Rhianna Pratchett, daughter of Terry Pratchett, author of the Discword Novels that have a slue of strong female characters. )
The real change is the gamers themselves. Hurling abuse at one another, mainly during deathmatches, is about as common as colds, 99% of them being asshole trolls who just want to make people angry for the hell of it.
Ranzoid,
I wonder if you even watched the video. If you did, you’d realize it’s not even talking about portrayal of female characters in video games, but hostility towards women solely because of their gender in the online gaming community. That’s not a “boys being boys” thing like you try to paint it as. That’s not hurling abuse at one another, it’s hurling abuse specifically at women for the crime of being women.
@ Ranzoid
You didn’t even watch the video, did you? You saw “feminist frequency” and assumed it was about representation of women in games. Fucking moron.
Saad,
I never said it was boys being boys, i said it was assholes being assholes. Jerks, shmuck-a-tellies, and fucktards for all intensive purposes are androgynous, and no that is not an insult against people do have an androgynous appearance, i needed a single word that conveyed no bias to or against any gender. I’ve played against female players who are just as sharp tongued and mean spirited as any man
@ Seven of Mine
Yes, i did watch the video and i was responding to # 14 and #15 and # 16 and i made a burp to the effect of how most online harassers are professional trolls who insult everyone.
Ranzoid @ 28
Assholes being assholes doesn’t mean others have to sit back and let them be assholes.
Jerks, shmuck-a-tellies, and fucktards
The -tard suffix is not welcome here. Don’t use it. It’s ableist.
I think this is the best demonstration you’ve given so far of how ridiculous you are. You needed a single word to convey a thing, so you picked one and then spent another 45 words defending it.
Ranzoid,
And do you get teleported you to an alternative universe where their mean-spiritedness towards you is just one part of a larger system of oppression due to your gender?
I’ve seen a video of a group of young black men beating up a young white man while calling him names. Black men can be as mean spirited as any man. Therefore, racism doesn’t exist. It’s just assholes being assholes.
You’re a sexist fool.
Ranzoid @ 29
Leaving aside your failure to provide any evidence of this, professional trolls who insult everyone aren’t who this video is about. We’re talking specifically about people who target women because they’re women. This video is specifically about things said specifically to women specifically because they’re women. Attitudes held toward women, specifically because they’re women.
@ Ranzoid
Bullshit. Comments 14, 15, and 16 are not about female video game characters or lack thereof or their representation. Your # 21 makes no sense whatsoever as a response to those comments.
For all intents and purposes
Really? So representation of women in video games who are playable characters and not sexual objects, and treatment of female gamers as gamers generally rather than inept and/or fragile entertainment, not to be taken seriously, are no longer an issue?
Or are you saying the game industry has gotten wise to this, but just has chosen to do very little about it?
Ranzoid @29:
Where is your evidence for the bolded assertion?
And could you be any more ignorant? Women are harassed and threatened with rape or death threats because they’re women. It isn’t “just trolling”. It’s misogyny. Men don’t face anything comparable just for being men.
We need to reconsider Ranzoid’s statement in light of hir obvious expertise in the habits of trolls. Xe’s been trolling us for most of the day.
And? Where is your evidence that thousands of female gamers have faced serious harassment? Did they report it to the ISP? Playstation Network/Xbox Live? Did they file police reports? How can anyone take your tales of injustice seriously if you don’t even try to report it properly.
Seriously, show me! Give a paper trail to fallow!
Yes, they where.
How is this not a slam on the lack female representation when i just counted dozens of iconic characters?
Yes and no! ::Banging head on desk:: For many developers that is still the stereotype that many fall back on. However there are other developers who realize that ‘hey, we can’t be pigeon hole women in the usual places we used to.” BioWare has been a the pioneer in this field, The Old Republic, Mass Effect, Dragon Age show hundreds of women who will not submit themselves to men, in some cases it the other way around. Lara Croft has undergone a massive transformation from Sexpot Goddess to a real women with real fears and the bravery to fight through them. Capcom created the the quintessential Queen of Video Games: Chun Li, (although Samus Aran came first). These games that feature strong, independent, cleaver women are ganging in popularity.
Problems with harassment in the online community are a different issue because developers have little say in that matter. If it is a MMO then that is a different can of bees. Developers then have an obvious responsibility to create clear cut harassment polices and a receptive support line to deal with issues of gamers stalking and bulling other gamers.
Developers are seeing what is going on and they are trying to adapt, if you suddenly cut off 40%(?) of your market, you just lost a hell of a lot of money for your company. Anita pitched a possible game about a dethrone princess, well i would actually play that game and a lot of other men would too.
Ranzoid @ 38
So if it didn’t get reported to some authority, it didn’t happen? Women talking about it all the fuck over the place isn’t evidence enough for you? Unless you have a police report to look at, you won’t believe it? B**chez be lyin’ am I right?
a) You didn’t count dozens.
b) Dozens compared to what? Thousands of male characters? Do you even math, bro?
c) Do you know what the words “most”, “widely” and “always” mean?
Ranzoid rides again:
When and how did they get wise to this? How have they shown any improvement in this regard? At least fucking half of the female characters you yourself listed have been around for at least 10 years. You dredged up a handful of female characters that span 20 plus fucking years of gaming history, one of which is a Mrs. Male Character and many of which are hypersexualized in a way that many feminists don’t approve of, even if they kick ass. That doesn’t even prove your point, and your point is idiotic to begin with because you don’t even address the actual concerns that Anita and other feminists actually have.
No, that doesn’t make it better you idiot. It is still the woman getting damselled. Because women, even badass ones, are helpless and almost always get captured while man rarely ever do. You get a random woman to replace her? That doesn’t make shit better! Why the fuck do you think it would?
I somehow don’t trust your psychological assessment on the matter.
One developer =/= Many developers.
Fuck off with your
(Again cites Chun Li, a character that is roughly 25 fucking years old now).
Let me see if I understand Ranzoid logic:
“There is an obvious increase in demand for good female characters! So why don’t you guys shut about up about how much you want more good female characters!”
Lolwut? What the actual fuck, Ranzoid?
Oh, forgot my comment about Lara Croft: Her “real fears” involve basically turning her video game into an Exploitation Movie. Including attempted rape. Attempted rape in goddamn Tomb Raider. Nothing problematic about that at all, nosiree.
http://kotaku.com/5917400/youll-want-to-protect-the-new-less-curvy-lara-croft
Wow, those comments from Rosenburg, just…
She’s more real because now she needs you to protect her. And we build her up so we can tear her down. And we turn her into a cornered animal. And she’s less curvy, but still pretty damn curvy and less scantily clad but still wearing a spaghetti strap top down which you’ll get plenty of opportunities to stare. Feminist tour de force right there, amirite!?
As for that “refutation” article…..
1. “What about teh menz!?
2. Uses the broad definition of Gamer (Candy Crush counts yay!) since it is more convenient for him.
3. Says harassment isn’t accepted by gaming community without evidence. Whines about harassment being brought up in multiple points.
4. Is perfectly fine with women automatically needing to “prove” their “gamer cred” to a higher degree than men because he is a dishonest fuckwit he decides to just handwring about how it is perfectly fine to expect to “prove gamer cred” in general.
5. Talks about political correctness and insists fake gamer girls are a thing. And how we should be skeptical about people claiming to be gamers. Because serious business. Also,, look at how we are conveniently drifting away from the Candy Crush Counts definition of gamer.
6. Passively agressively concedes the point.
7. Says it is identical to 3. It is not. 3 is about online harassment, stalking and doxxing. 7 is about harassment at gaming events, and explicitly includes groping.
8. BOTH SIDES!!! (Asserts that male gamers are just as likely to be generalized to have one male gamer speak for all male gamers. He uses the video as evidence, despite the video having 25 men doing the speaking.)
9. Says it is the same as point 8 (it isn’t, this one is about generalizing gaming skill from one woman, the other was about generalizing the opinions, ideas, etc. of one woman).
10. Doesn’t know what biological function they are talking about. Stellar rebuttal.
11. Refutes “relative certainty” that men won’t be judged on tone as much as women are by citing a small handful of shitty counter examples (no, gamergate is not example of men being judged negatively due to tone alone, dishonest shithead)
12. Says that women preferring casual games is a stereotype based on fact, which basically accepts that the point they are responding to is true.
13. Says this is the same as point 12. Point 12 was about women reinforcing a stereotype if they play games that are too cutesy. Point 13 is about women who are buying a game assumed to be buying it for someone else. No, not the same point. Further rebuts this point by whining about retailers just doing their job and about how he has been misjudged as working at a store due to the color of his shit. Disingenuous nonsense.
And then absolutely disgusting: Decides to counter the idea that a man would never be asked if they are buying a game for his wife or daughter by positing the purchase of “Barbie’s Horse Riding Adventure”. Sexist fucking assclown.
14. Essentially no response to the issue of the industry itself being male-dominated.
15. Says that women aren’t non-existent, when the original comment was about men being widely represented. Must have a weird conception of what “Widely represented” means or can’t read their own writing. Also literally Dear Muslima’s the argument: Compares the amount of female characters to the much smaller amount of “Arab characters”.
16. Concedes the argument. Funny enough, because this the exact argument (most characters are male by default) that Ranzoid here pitches a shit fit about every time.
17. Says it is the same point as 3 but this is about “carefully navigating engagement” (i.e. being careful what you say), not avoiding any form of contact info to avoid getting stalked.
18. Says it is the same as point 3, but this is about avoiding revealing that you are a woman at all.
19. Says it is the same point as point 3, but this about triggering “attacks” of any kind upon revelation that you aren’t the default presumed Male.
20. Says this is the same as point 3, except this one points out how one’s being male is never part of the insults you receive (see: Gendered Insults)
21. Says this is the same as point 3. It is in fact a subset of sexual harassment: being pressured to talk about intimate bodily details and sexual experiences.
22. Says this is the same as point 3. Again, it is a subset of sexual harassment: unsolicited pictures of genitalia, requests for nude pictures. I think that if comment 3 didn’t mention harassment and just used the term “stalking” exclusively, this little shithead would have to have concede a shit ton of points.
23. Says this is the same as point 3. It is about players wondering if you are single and/or “hot”
24. “What about teh menz!!?” redux.
25. Says the final point isn’t true. Had a giant fucking point by point refutation of a five minute video made by men, attempting to refute 25 sentences one sentence at a time, and then says that they don’t take videos more seriously if they made by a straight white man.
Riiiiiight.
Final Rating: Better than Ranzoid, but not by much.
Ranzoid the misogynist troll @38:
The evidence is found in the comments by women all around the internet talking about the harassment they’ve faced in the gaming world. There isn’t a lot that law enforcement has done (or likely can do as yet) about this problem, so it’s not like women are going to the authorities in droves over the problem of harassment in the gaming community. But those of us that have read their complaints–and believe them–are aware that a great many women have dealt with harassment aimed at them because of their actual or perceived gender.
And so what if they haven’t gone to the authorities? Are you not going to believe women when they say they’ve faced harassment if they don’t report it? If so, you’re not doing a very good job of supporting women’s rights.
First off, it’s not a slam. It’s an observation of male privilege in the gaming community.
Secondly, you did not count dozens of iconic characters. You gave the names of 14 characters. That’s not “dozens”.
In addition, you didn’t read the comments for comprehension. Those comments don’t say that there is NO female representation. They said:
This one is not about female representation in video games. It’s about the people who create the games and who they’re selling them to.
Also, do you see the words majority and primarily? In this example, the point is that the majority of game studios have been led and populated primarily by men. As such, most of their products cater to men.
This comment is about representation, but not representation in video games.
This comment makes the point that in gaming stores, images of men from all manner of backgrounds in video games are widely represented, whereas female characters are not widely represented.
Another observation about gaming. This one I suppose you could argue is about female representation in games. But your point that there are female characters in games doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of protagonists or heroes in games are male by default. Which means that men overwhelmingly have the option of choosing a character of their gender where women largely do not.
This is the second thread you’ve infested with your misogynistic rantings and I’m rather sick of it.
@ Tony @ Ranzoid @Seven Of Mine
I’m not doubting that women get a lot of shit just for being women, but people in online gaming are often huge assholes in general. It’s a problem for everyone, and I don’t see what can be done about it. Having more women in the community might help though, and thats a reasonable goal.
@jakup3,
I want you to ponder one phrase that is often used (in whole or in part): “There are no GIRLS on the internet; tits or GTFO.”
That statement above pretty much sums up how women are treated online. So, the first thing every woman is expected to do online is prove that they’re a woman, and things only do downhill from there. Men (such as myself) are never subject to demands to provide evidence of my gender like women are.
jakup3 @ 45
How about, when you see this shit happen that you say you don’t doubt happens? Fucking say something. How about that? Not fucking rocket surgery, dudebro. “Man, that’s not cool.” It’s that fucking simple.
Here’s an example of something I saw just today that happens all the time. I watch a lot of gaming broadcasts on Twitch TV. There’s this attitude about female streamers that many of them are “boob streamers” i.e. they have a web cam feed of them in the corner along with the footage of the game. This is pretty much standard practice for ALL streamers of all genders. In fact, when a broadcaster doesn’t have a face cam up, there’s a constant stream of people asking why there’s no face cam, regardless of gender. There are a couple of extremely popular male broadcasters I know off the top of my head who never show their faces online and they get hounded about it constantly. So there’s an expectation that everybody do it. But when women do it, especially if they’re showing any cleavage, it’s boob cam and it’s automagically a cynical, commercial, cheap, transparent attempt to “get more viewers” as if getting more viewers isn’t the goal of everyone who ever streamed or posted a video to Youtube. And the so-called “boob cam” is also automagically the only reason anyone watches them. So I was watching one of my favorite broadcasters last nite and, as usually happens once per broadcast at least in pretty much any channel, someone says “Hey [broadcaster] what do you think about boob streamers?” which then spawns a conversation wherein a bunch of people shit on female streamers for doing the exact same thing male streamers do while in possession of boobs. This particular broadcaster is pretty progressive and his community reflects that so the conversation didn’t get much traction in this case but in most channels it does. But that’s the kind of thing you can do: when someone tries to start that conversation or one like it, fucking rain on their parade.
In so many words…YES. Because you are essentially doing nothing to solve the problem! You complain and complain but you complain to the wrong people who can’t do anything about or could do very little. Tell Content and Services providers to start kicking and banning those asshole. If you are conically being harassed by a particular user get their IP address and give it to the police or at least the service providers. This is the same common sense solutions that Phil Mason has been talking about!
See above
Evidences, circumstantial at least, that you are not a gamer and don’t really care about feminism. That character lasting appeal is only rivaled by Mario. She has appeared in just about every incarnation of Street Fighter since the original second game. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chun-Li, She is THE poster child for feminism in video games and you just spat in her face.
Actually what I’ve done was injected reasonable feminist ideals into a toxic atmosphere of Self-righteous indignation addicts. http://www.davidbrin.com/addiction.html
Ranzoid @ 48
Complaining about it is doing something, fuckwit. The authorities don’t give a shit. Look at Twitter. You have to be fucking Robin Williams’ daughter or similar to actually get someone banned for harassment. A lot of harassment doesn’t rise to the level of illegal and, even when it does, the police often don’t take it seriously. Anita Sarkeesian received credible death threats and the university she was scheduled to speak at didn’t see any reason to keep guns out of the venue. Fuck you sideways for expecting people to just put up with whatever any asshole decides to dish out.
Further, don’t come in here citing fucking Thunderf00t expecting to be taken seriously. Phil Fucking Mason couldn’t reason his way out of a wet paper bag with a hole in it.
Jesus fucking christ, I’ve asked you this before but I’ll ask it again: have you ever actually met any other living, flesh and blood human beings? In one breath you tell real, living women that until and unless they report any mistreatment to some authority you won’t have any shits to give about how they’re treated. In the next breath you’re rushing to defend a fucking FICTIONAL CHARACTER because someone doesn’t show her the same irrational reverence you do. You’re fucking pathetic.
Seriously, asshole…all anyone is asking of you is to show at least as much concern for ACTUAL, REAL PEOPLE as you do for Chun Fucking Li.
Tell me Ranzoid did not just seriously cite Thunderf00l as if that guy has anything intelligent to say on the matter… I mean… Really?
@Ranzoid #22
You can read anteprepro’s post #43 for a complete review of the article (and you really should, considering you asked for exactly this). As for my critique:
If you are trying to refute the statement
I as a male gamer enjoy the benefit of being able to choose to remain completely oblivious or indifferent to the harassment that many women face in gaming, because obviously women can’t choose to remain completely oblivious or indiffrent to the harassment women face in gaming with them being the target of said harassment
by writing:
I consider that complete and utter nonsense. And it only goes downhill from there:
In truth the statement makes clear that male gamers have the option to be completely unaware of or not give a fuck about the harassment of female gamers, while female gamers of course do not have this option. Which really shouldn’t be that hard to understand.
Of course it’s only “not a strong point” if you don’t understand it.
Rocks are totally indifferent to the harassment of female gamers as well. Good thing that the video isn’t titled “25 Benefits of GAMING while male”
So as long as you don’t interact with other gamers or read or watch anything gaming related or mention that you like games to anyone as a female gamer you are completely safe from harassment and thus can be just as oblivious and indifferent as the male gamers (that don’t have to follow all these rules but still have this option). How is that not a benefit for male gamers?
Because now everytime you log into your steam account you have to read at least one story about harassment of female gamers first.
Honestly, this again?
Because of the feminist regime that brutally rules gaming, right?
But this margin is too narrow to contain them?
This is just Point 1, this garbage doesn’t get any better, with an all-time low of:
practically disqualifying the author from this “discussion”.
jakup3, #45
You’re technically right, but the subset of that abuse that is directed at women is dripping with significance. It’s not just random cases of internet assholes being assholes. It’s like saying people of all races get murdered, which would be correct. But it doesn’t mean lynchings and police brutality isn’t a separate issue requiring special attention. The targeting of women is a specific thing being done to them solely because of an inherent nature they possess. One wouldn’t overlook racism this way if black gamers were being harassed due to their skin color.
#48 Ranzoid
“It didn’t happen” doesn’t follow from “you’re not solving the problem.” One thing is hardly related to the other.
And, what the hell, why should the burden of solving the problem lie on the victim? Those wrong people could try and create a healthier environment where harassment isn’t commonplace, report by themselves harassment when they see it happening, and at least fucking try and not blame the victim.
Ranzoid @ 21:
I’m only going to tackle a few of these, just to show that you either don’t know or don’t care about your examples:
Chun Li – here’s an experiment… count the number of female characters in any Street Fighter game, or the entire cross-game cast. Count the number of male characters. Check to see of one of those lists is just a little teeny bit longer than the other. Check if that’s the same ratio as people in the real world, or within the gaming community. If this is too complex for you, think about it this way: if I am talking about Street Fighter II, and I say “the girl”, who am I talking about? If I say “the guy”, who am I talking about? Got it yet?
Samus Aran – ah, you mean the character for whom it was literally a shocking unforeseen reveal that they were female… because they were an action hero? Please score more own goals, it makes arguing with you so much easier.
FemShep – Ok, just take a look at that name again. You’re trying to assert that a gender-swapped version of the main character of a game is a strong, independent character. Keep thinking, you’ll figure it out eventually.
As to women in gaming not having what they say taken seriously, your objection hinges on not taking seriously what women in gaming are saying. In other words, you’re only able to question the reality of women in gaming being ignored by ignoring women in gaming. Like I said, keep thinking, you’ll get it eventually.
Seven, more people have heard of Chun Li then Gloria Steinem. But then again, a person who is so hopeless addicted to self-righteous indignation is inapplicable of reason because it blocks their high. I will never stop citing her because pop culture has a bigger influence on society then professional academics. I suppose I could of sight some women like Leigh Ann Hester who was awarded the Silver Star, Wilma Rudolph, an Olympian, hell even Mary Shelly, the women who basically invented science fiction and gothic horror in one book. However many people have never heard of those women, with the exception of Shelly. More people recognize Li, Ripley and Croft then they do Steinem, Betty Friedan or Eleanor Smeal.
And yes, Thunderf00t is a hell of more reasonable person anyone I’ve come across here.
Sounds like you to a tee. You have self-righteous indignation, that you might have to listen to women. Get over it, like you want women to get over their legitimate grievances against male pigs like you.
A rampant misogynist with delusions of adequacy of argument, which consist of evidenceless hyperbole and attitude. Why am I not surprise misogynist pig.
@ Ranzoid
How do you fucking get through a day if this is your thought process? I asked you why you were more willing to DEFEND Chun Li than living, breathing women being harassed and you say “Gloria Steinem”? You’re a fucking clown.
Actually, it’s to bullshit and uniformed opinions
Really, could you point out how exactly Thunderfoot is factually wrong in any of his rebuttals, regardless of your own opinions.
And what exactly have i said was piggish? Did i mention just how sexy and alluring any of the characters I mention? While i suppose Ms Li’s traditional cheongsam, which admittedly isn’t the best attire to ware for CQC, dose show off her very tone legs and that grimy flight suit that Ellen Ripley wears with that bomber jacket dose give an air of mystery. Same thing with Samus’s Power Armor, you get a hint of curves but you don’t see the whole picture.
::Sarcasm over::
Bub, I’m full fucking Egalitarian, because feminism has become so hateful and mean spirited, taken over by hyper-sensitive fanatics like you who cry wolf at the miriest hint of a problem without a proper investigation. Misogyny in the video game world is dying, as much as I disagree with Anita Sarkeesian’s methods, I do think she is having some positive effect on how developers market their games and how admins deal with misbehaving players. You can’t use a sword to perform surgery or a jackhammer to uncover a fossil.
Ranzoid
One, that is some real shitty “logic” to deduce your way into your assertion that I am not a True Gamer.
Two, again, you are a fucking idiot because my point was exactly that she is a character that has been around for a fucking while. Her existence proves nothing regarding the current direction or current changes in the gaming industry.
And? That just shows how fucked up our culture and priorities are. More people have heard of Miley Cyrus than Elizabeth Warren. So fucking what? In fact, this undermines your fucking point, because it shows exactly WHY we should care about pop culture and its portrayal of women. But you don’t give a shit, because you couldn’t logic your way out of a fucking paper bag.
If we needed just one sentence to distill down the unique combination of idiocy and misogyny that you embody, this would do a damn fine job. At least around here, for people who know what a bigoted dumbfuck Thunderf00t is.
Look in a mirror. Then step outside of that bubble of unwavering, unquestioning orthodoxy you live in. Ask yourself, ‘am i using the best examples possible, that people will know, that people will want to fallow?’
I do that at least one a week, and with every bit of new information i gather.
Ranzoid:
There is a group out there that is oppressed. There are a significant number of barriers they need to overcome, significant biases against them they need to deal with, and they deal with a disproportionate amount of highly problematic behaviors. They are not treated fairly at all, even if it isn’t obvious to people outside that group. They try to fight this, bring attention to the millions of tiny ways that they are mistreated.
Then there is a group of people who are not oppressed. They hear all of the tiny ways that group is mistreated only one at a time. They say “this is tiny, it doesn’t matter” and disregard it. When they hear about the big ways they are mistreated, they look at them as freak accidents or just say that it could happen to their own group too, even if it happens, in reality, at a much, much lower rate. These people insist, loudly, repeatedly, that everything is already Equal. Everything is already fine. They tell the uppity members of the other group to shut up and stop complaining because everything is fair and fine. In fact, every thing is already so Equal that the oppressed group is just looking for Power, they want to become the superior class. The Not Oppressed are the True Egalitarians. And all it took was the strenuous and incredible feat of just outright assuming that things are already equal, ignoring the ways that they aren’t, and complaining about anyone trying to change the status quo.
Guess which group you are in Ranzoid? This happens a lot Ranzoid. You are not a special little snowflake, Ranzoid. You are an impressively stupid representative of an already stupid group, but you are not unique, Ranzoid. You are just yet another privileged asshole ignoring the facts right in front of them and telling a discriminated class to shut up about the details of how they are discriminated against. You can fuck off any time now.
I watch Ranzoid “argue”, and I can’t help to have one clear and persistent image come to mind:
Pigeon chess.
So your saying that a woman who’s been a flagship character in a major franchise, who is a train martial artist and a detective, who has appeared in not just the games, but also tv series, comic books, even, all be it shitty, movies, has no positive influences what so ever? Well if that is the case then CapCom has exercise some really stupid business practices by using a character that nobody likes.
How so, when they see Cyrus they see a bratty hedonist, i never said that popular exposure wasn’t a two way street or wasn’t a double edge sword.
Ranzoid:
What? Can you even read?
For the love of God, Ranzoid, just go off and masturbate to Chun Li fan fiction already. You have nothing to contribute here.
Ranzoid is a fucking medical miracle: a walking, talking, living, breathing non-sequitur.
Seven of Mine:
Don’t you dare talk about feminist icon Chun Li that way!!!1!!1!
/Ranzoid
@ anteprepro:
BANANA! Q.E. FUCKING D.
Ranzoid, here’s the reason you’re a misogynist piece of shit:
You entered a thread about the disadvantages women have to face in the gaming community and tried to derail it with talking about female characters in video games while brushing aside the awful misogyny happening to real humans as “assholes being assholes” and that women can be as mean as men.
When talking about Ferguson, would you say “everybody gets murdered! It’s just murderers being murderers!”?
That’s being generous, I’m not even sure he could pass a Turing Test.
Nope, part of the original video message was about how the industry has male dominated characters, must i replete points 14 thorough 16 again?
How is brushing aside unconfirmed reports and hearsay about harassment misogynist? I’m not saying that there are not any seriously threats leveled at people. But are you saying that we must take absolutely every single complaint at face value without an objective investigation?
I know! Shocking isn’t it. In fact the books I’m reading right now are “Ring World” by Larry Niven and “Soldier Girls : The battles of three women at home and at war” by Helen Thorpe
And you know what? I agree with many aspect with that paragraph, it’s the methods of fighting that i don’t agree with. You aren’t fighting smart. Some problems aren’t being address properly only because they aren’t being reported rightly. Society hasn’t done of good job of encouraging women to immediately come forward when a transgression takes place. Police don’t always take allegation seriously, particularly if they happen weeks or years ago, t. But society is at the same time starting to learn from his past mistakes, private companies and public institutions are revising their sexual harassment policies. Change is happening, that change must be encourage, not shot full of steroids. Grievances need to be filed with the right people along with public exposures if only to say, “Look i did file a harassment report with Blizzard Entertainment!” leaving a traceable trail that can be objectively investigated so everyone else can say “Hmm, there is indeed a problem.” Solution must be purposed.
Otherwise you will be just as Julie Bindel warned about.
You wouldn’t know the difference if it bit you.
It’s not me who’s Julie is talking to, it’s you.
Do you think women aren’t capable of identifying when they’re being harassed by misogynists? Do you think they have any reason to conflate that with “being an asshole” or lie about it? Do you think you have any reason to do it, and how did you confirm that for yourself?
Sure, of course he is.
Because change with steroids will do what? Put more hair on its chest and ruin the change’s career in major league baseball?
You should’ve put your entire comment in comic sans for us. It would’ve helped.
But one more question, since you as a man know what’s best. If it’s coherent to talk about “moral superiority” as a problem, then what sort of moral inferiority are you asking for here?
So you were just quoting her for shits and giggles, then? Okay. It’s not like I was taking you seriously anyway.
It’s always considered bile as long as it discomforts someone, anyone.
Ranzoid
Did you ever wonder why there is a concern about lack of female characters? Hint: It involves the world on the opposite side of the computer screen, the one without all the pixels and with the nifty little controller.
I know you have no interest in that side, due to a severe Chun Li deficit, but the rest of us have a slightly larger interest in reality than you do.
What the ever living fuck?
“I’m just saying women are liars. How is that sexist? Not sexist at all! Not all women all liars, just a lot of them. Unsubstantiated. Court of law. Witch hunts. CHUN LIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!”
Cry more. You don’t get to whine about tactics when you have no stake in the fight. Fuck off.
Are you insinuating that feminists aren’t aware of this problem and aren’t ALSO addressing it? Are you fucking serious right now?
That change is being encouraged. And even more change is being encouraged beyond what we are getting. Look up the Overton Window. This is why you are not being consulted for tactics: You are a random, clueless asshole on the internet. You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. No one gives a shit what your gut says. No one will take orders that you pull out of your ass and call instructions from On High. Get a fucking grip. You have no right and certainly do not have the competence to dictate what is and what is not valid and effective strategy. Fucking gibbering self-important dipshit.
So apparently calling out the negative elements in culture isn’t activism?
Apparently taking state institutions and corporations to task doesn’t count as vitriol because reasons?
Apparently criticizing culture at large is not challenging assumptions?
Bull fucking shit, you fucking idiot.
Ranzoid #72:
Let's turn that around, shall we. Which reports do you claim to be lies, and on what grounds? More bluntly, which particular women are you calling liars?
DOH! Sometimes having a grammar nazi around is a good thing….
It’s called asking questions. What did this person say? What started this interaction? Did this person just show up or have they been around for a while? Did they make any threats? If so how detailed? Etc. Etc. Etc.
No, more akin to a side effect known as roid rage. Also the addition to Self-righteous indignation where in stead of a person just getting enraged at the drop of a hat, they actually get high from being mad at a given issue. It’s a hypothesis purpose by David Brin.
Did you even read the article.
To get off your high horse, take off your “The Patriarchy is trying to oppress us” glasses, and look at the world objectively. Is this really a case of rampant misogyny or trolling?
Well for one thing i never said that these reports where lies, my potion was that it was trolling being taken way too seriously, with an aside that these claims should be invesigated. But if you want me to cite actually case study where a women made a false report here is a piece that was done by the Center For Inquire http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/entry/the_anatomy_of_false_accusations_a_skeptical_case_study/
Here’s an example from the UK. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2355655/Astria-Berwick-Woman-jailed-lying-police-taxi-driver-sexually-assaulted-cab.html
Here’s one about a making false threats on face book. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/03/meg-lanker-simons-hoax-university-wisconsin_n_3210326.html
Ranzoid, Internet Detective.
So then you think “on steroids” means angry? Is there anything you can talk about where you aren’t a complete and utter dumbfuck?
How does it benefit us if we do? We respond to the points in the article, and you ignore them and just shart out another half-relevant article. When you are both too inept to respond to what we write AND too inept to even find a good fucking article, you are just one fucking sorry case.
The fact that you say that last sentence without for one second considering that the two aren’t mutually exclusive just proves all of my previous insults. You are such a fuckwit, it is beyond belief.
What does he have evidence? An article from rapist Ben Radford and a news story from the Daily Fail. Great work, Ranzoid. Stellar job as usual. Great work, Professor Ranzoid.
That is the world objectively. You might think women are blind and you can see for them, but it’s actually their lives we’re talking about, not yours. Is it so hard to not be so incredibly fucking prejudiced against people, that you won’t even believe they have a better idea of their own lives than you do? From my outside, third-person perspective, it’s very fucking obvious how objectively full of shit you are and what a pathetic fake-skeptic you make. No charge for your diagnosis this time. But I’ll believe a person when it comes to their experiences, which fits similar evidence of this shit that I see all over the world and experience myself, unless I actually have some reason not to believe them.
In your case, it’s really a case of both. Ah, you were talking about gaming. Same deal.
No, you didn’t. You only made a reference to the last line in the last paragraph
And? Doesn’t change the fact that two women are in jail because they lied to police with a possible third.
Speaking as a old-fart male, both. And so is your blather, illogical connections, bigotry and general lack of cogency. Like when you mansplain’, which is what you have been doing ever since you have arrived, telling to tell us how we should look at things, rather than shutting the fuck up and listening to why and how you are wrong.
Ranzoid #80:
If a troll posts falsehoods, then that troll is lying. Claiming that a person was merely trolling whilst spouting falsehoods is merely rephrasing the statement that the person was lying. What part of this concept is difficult to understand?
That's a false accusation of rape. WTF does it have to do with online abuse?
Ditto.
Oh, jolly good show. You found one example of someone making a false report of online harassment.
How many of the women who you have no grounds to believe are liars, are you willing to treat as liars-until-proven-innocent, on the basis of such rare occurrences?
Ranzoid,
What is your issue here? Women have been saying, “Hey, when we play games online, we get sexist or harassing comments directed at us. Please stop doing that, and when you see other people doing it, tell them that it isn’t cool.” Why do you think the stakes here are so high that each claim of sexism online needs a criminal-style investigation done? Why not just say, “Ok, I’ll try to make sure I don’t support sexist or harassing comments online.” No one is going to go to jail over any of this. We’re just trying to raise awareness over harassment online so that it because less socially acceptable to treat people that way.
And really? If a woman tells you that some jerk made her feel unwelcome on xbox live by saying blatantly sexist things, your response is “prove it”? And you don’t see how that makes you an asshole?
Ranzoid,
Stop calling it trolling, fucking asshat. It’s not mere trolling if it actually effects people’s lives. Are you not capable of thinking or is it just too damn difficult for you?
If black people or gay people faced this kind of behavior when they tried to play games online, would that be “trolling taken too seriously?” No. Then what the fuck is it with you and not applying the same standard to women. You think that’s fine? You don’t think people need to call out such behavior to help it stop? You think Chun Fucking Li will fix that?
Ranzoid
Before this goes further, I should inform you that I spent years as a chat-room moderator. I have, personally, with mine own eyes, seen screenshots of more instances of online harassment than I would wish anyone to have to witness, even fuckheads like you who might profit by the experience. Y’know what? Non-sexist and non-racist abuse is so fucking rare that the occasional occurrence of it, no matter how nasty it may be, actually comes as a relief.
Nope, never said that. Never even hinted that i knew best. All i said, was investigate. Go where the evidence leads.
So asking question is not what skepticism is about? That it’s perfectly okay to just assume that the victim was telling the truth? When you Assume, you make an Ass out of You and Me.
XBL dose have a complain line, if a users gets enough strikes against him Microsoft will ban them. Be proactive, you can get justice if act fast enough and go to the right people. Also the internet is not as anonymous as people think it is. IP address can be easily traced because most of these jerks aren’t skill hackers.
Folks take an apple from toska’s bag. Politeness and constructive criticism can go a long way.
Strawman. Unless the user activity displays or said what their skin color or ordination is, no one will know it. Unless the game has voice chat no one will know what the user’s gender is either. Generally speaking, gamers are a foul mouth group of people. Particular during death matches.
I don’t doubt it, my own experience seeing such vitriol in AOL and Yahoo rooms would make Chuck Paulanick blush with embarrassment.
Ranzoid,
Uh, that’s not a strawman, fucking dolt. I acknowledged that that would not be your position (don’t disappoint me though). Read again what followed that question:
FFS, you’re completely clueless about everything.
AND you can’t read. I said IF they were facing the same abuse based on their sexual orientation or skin color. That “if” assumes their skin color or sexuality was known. Otherwise how would they be harassed based on those things, dumbass?
Ranzoid #89:
You ain't seen nothin' 'til you've seen what goes on in PM.
I note you cut your quote of me just before the part where I made my point regarding the predominant nature of such harassment. Why is that?
Ranzoid,
First, people do report harassment online. You might not hear about it, but it happens all the time. WAM! has teamed up with twitter* in order to make reporting harassers easier and more effective. This is a front that feminists are working on.
But you also have to consider what role gaming plays in people’s lives. We game to relax and enjoy ourselves after we get off work. When women go online to play games, and then they get harassed and receive sexist remarks, many don’t want to deal with the hassle of reporting and trying again. This is what they are doing in their free time to enjoy themselves. With that in mind, it’s often less stressful to just log off and either stop playing or only play with a select group of friends. Many women do this. And you don’t believe that they experience harassment just because they’d rather step out and not deal with it than report (which, by the way, often does not result in any action)? Seriously, all we’re asking you to do is not harass women and to call it out when you see it. You have nothing to lose here unless you are a harasser. You don’t need to demand proof from every woman who says she’s tired of being harassed online.
Please do not use me to tone troll.
*Link to that: http://www.womenactionmedia.org/2014/11/06/harassment-of-women-on-twitter-were-on-it/
Shut the fuck up. That is constructive criticism misogynist. Tone trolling means you know you have lost the argument due to your stupidity…..
Because if the people responsible for listening to the reports think like you, they’ll never be believed.
Ranzoid @89:
No.
You don’t get to dictate to others how they fucking respond to you. You’ve been a shitspigot throughout this entire thread and people are under no obligation to treat you gently. Moreover, the coarse language in various comments in this thread sits alongside arguments. If you can’t deal with naughty language, then I don’t think this is the fucking blog for you.
BTW, your comments, while containing no “profanity” are fucking uncivil as hell. Civility isn’t found solely in the type of words used. Stop focusing on the words that offend your fee fees and pay attention to the message being conveyed.
@48:
I was going to engage with this comment at greater length, but then you mentioned Thunderf00t and common sense solutions (to the problem of harassment of women in gaming, which he’s suuuuuch an opponent of) in the same sentence. You can fuck off forever as far as I’m concerned, you misogynistic scumbag.
****
jakup3 @45:
People being assholes in gaming is not the same thing as misogynistic or homophobic or racist behavior directed at women, gays, or PoC.
All assholery is not equal. Much assholery punches down on oppressed people.
For an illustration of what I mean, think about the terms Fuckwit and n*gger. The former is an all encompassing insult that applies to anyone. The use of the word could be abusive, but not always and more importantly, it doesn’t target a marginalized group. Contrast that with n*gger. That’s a dehumanizing slur that targets black people. It’s a very specific term that is aimed at black people in such a way as to remind us of our place. The two words aren’t the same. They are both “naughty” words, but n*gger is infinitely worse because it punches down on an oppressed group.
Does that help you in understanding that not all insults or examples of assholery are the same?
****
Saad @70:
Given Ranzoid’s “contributions” in this and other threads, I really, really don’t want to hear his opinions on the subject of race. I’d have to pull out the Racial Bingo Card, and I’m horrible at playing Bingo on two cards.
Mr. I Can Set The Timetable For Someone Else’s Freedom has decreed that the Woman is not to Demand equal treatment, but to have it Bestowed upon them when Men have found her Worthy.
This is any easy one. Mark all “dog whistles” as covered. Bingo should be one or two more. Ranzoid is transparent in his bigotry.
Geez, this seems so familiar for some reason. Here, I’ll try adding some extra questions.
What clothes were she wearing? Is she white? Was she in a bad neighborhood? Was it night? Is she a sex worker? Did she ever have sex with someone before?
Hmmm.
Ranzoid @ 89:
Oh? Ok, um…
@62:
@60:
@56:
It looks like someone who thinks they know best has hacked your account, Ranzoid. Might wanna get rid of them so we don’t mistake them for you and get confused or anything.
As a stopgap measure, could you let us know what other things you said that you didn’t say?
Anybody who claims to be an egalitarian, but only for opportunity, and not results, doesn’t understand what egalitarian means. Equal results, or nothing but status quo apologist.