This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. Wallaby.
Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. Wallaby.
Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread
Sorry about the length of the last one. I’ve been distracted.
Actually… length of last one was fine, once the gender discussion started it would have been weird to cut it off. It is still going on a little bit though. :)
I like it.
It being bunday I would have preferred a bunneh picture ;P
It was good.
Paul K
From last thread: I watch TV intensely, too. Husband, on the other hand, does it with a slack jaw and wide-eyed amazement, and complete mental involvement (that means no questions). ;)
I’ll admit to still having a bit of a problem with that. I get it on an intellectual level, but emotionally, it doesn’t gel. Of course, being a half-way decent person, I recognize that it’s my problem, not anyone else’s.
I want a whole mess of wallabys.
LykeX, here is one of the things that Mark Driscoll is most infamous for.
I’ll be your mirror
Reflect what you are
In case you don’t know
Ugh. This head cold is doing me in. Nose is stuffy and runny and I can’t stop sneezing. Ears are clogged so I feel like I’m listing to the left. And I sneezed so hard this morning that I bounced my forehead off my knee, so now I’ve got a bruise and possibly a concussion. I think I’ll take some more meds and maybe a nap.
Have a good day, all!
So, I bought myself one of these small steppers because I need some exercise and damn am I out of shape. I don’t exactly break a sweat but my muscles tell me in no unclear terms that if I want to walk tomorrow I have to stop now.
beatrice
Definetly.
Socio Gen
Yeah, I think some guidelines about naming children are OK, after all we’re talking about people and not goldfish. And most of the time it isn’t a problem. We didn’t have any with # 1 and the little one even though 1#’s name isn’t actually a name but sounds like one and the little one’s is a made-up name by the German translators of a Swedish book. But they have traditional second names.
Only once in a while you meet a power-hungry judgemental asshole…
rq and Tony
I HATE the Harry and Sally trope. Seriously. And the Will and Grace one as well. That’s not about you, Tony, it’s about this idea. Yeah, maybe it is easier for women and gay men to have friendships and relationships but I think that’s because society allows us those while it denies us the intimate non-sexual relationships with straight men because haha sex, you know?
Actually, my gay best friend (yeah, I know) was often mistaken as my boyfriend. What seriously confused people was when they alternately saw him with me and another female friend.
People just thought they could make assumptions about our relationships based on gender and behaviour. There wasn’t any working sexual combination between the three of us.
Paul K
I kept my last name, too, but the kids have Mr.’s, mostly because of the “nobody questions my status as a mother” thing. But people feel free to just call me Ms. “Mr.’s last name”, even if I just spelled them mine…
Also, hearing all you ‘Mericuns talk about IDs and voter registration and driving licenses makes me glad to live in a smaller country.
+++
I beg to differ, y’r honour, I think it does…
Speaking of it, here’s a cute story
Warning, TMI
So, some nights ago, Mr. and I were lying in bed, trying to sleep when I was enthusiastically picking my nose. Yeah, I know, ladies don’t do that. Sue me. Mistaking the sounds for something else, apparently, Mr. rolled over and said “But honey, that’s my duty“…
Socio-gen
A concussion from sneezing??? Get well soon!!!
Actually, I was wondering why the need to start new Lounge threads. Why not just let them continue?
I don’t know about that. With chickens, we label them hen/rooster, not just female/male, just like we label humans woman/man*. And I can think of several species were the behaviour differs between the female and the male members, without (AFAIK) an underlying biological need. For instance, the lionesses hunt most of the time, with the male lions only participating for large prey.
Of course, IANAB, but this is a blog with random biological ejaculations, so perhaps PZ or any of the other resident biologists could shed a light on gender roles in the animal kingdom.
*You know,
sheep – ewe/ram
chicken – hen/rooster
horse – mare/stallion (filly/colt)
human – woman/man
Also, hello again. I stopped commenting about half a year ago, kept reading on and off, and have a little more time at the moment. No need to tell you I’m utterly threadrupt, so hello again to you all and my well wishes to those who need it.
rq:
I know I annoy people when I watch movies (at home or in the theater), or television. When something comes up of interest, I want to talk about it. If something ridiculous happens, I want to discuss it. If Indiana Jones survives a nuclear explosion in a refrigerator, I’m going to comment on it. In the theater, I try to hold back, but I dislike having to wait until the end of the movie to comment on it. Especially since there’s often plenty I want to discuss, but will forget much of it. Maybe I should start taking notes.
****
Improbable Joe:
Look what your questions spawned! Totes awesome buddy.
You have anything else you want to ask that can get such interesting conversation going?
Giliell
Thanks for that TMI. I also like to pick my nose enthusiastically (but never has Husband mistaken it for anything else ;) ). One of the many reasons I am not a lady, too.
As for the Harry-and-Sally trope, yeah, I agree, I hate it – a lot. Especially since I like hanging out with guys of any shape or leaning, but it really bothers me that there’s a certain assumption from society as to our relationship, just because it’s a mixed-gender relationship.
For instance, in choir, one of the basses and I have a very easy-going relationship. You know the kind, teasing, laughing, a lot of touching, very flirty from the sidelines. You can’t imagine how many times other members of the choir have made comments, joking and not joking, about how my Husband should know what’s going on, and aren’t I married, and what about the kids, and all that stuff… Strangely, though, we’ve settled our boundaries, and it’s clear there’s no sexual undercurrent. At all. To us, at least. And yet! And yet… (To be clear, the Husband knows of this relationship and is quite comfortable with it. Which I make clear to anyone who questions it.)
And, like others have said, thanks to Improbable Joe for asking the question and thanks to all participants for the very interesting discussion that followed.
SQB:
Welcome back.
It sounds like you’re probably the most threadrupt of us all :)
Longer page==more data==slower loading time.
It is a gradual increase but it does accumulate.
SQB
The original question/statement was about labelling animals as men/women, not other gender-specific descriptors. I know of labels for female animals and male animals, but when I look at a horse, I don’t say, that’s a man horse. I say that’s a male horse (and I might specify stallion or gelding). That’s where that sentence is coming from. :)
But yes, gender roles in other animals – interesting topic!
Tony
I know what you mean – I’m a commenter myself! If I’m enraptured, fine, but I like to make all kinds of comments on the side, too. Especially if it’s something ridiculous! It’s tough when there’s no response…
Partner has observed there are shows I do not watch, I debate with. X-files and Enterprise or Trek are big offenders for me.
Isn’t that solved by having a new subpage every 500 comments? Or does a page with 2603 comments (103 comments on the 6th subpage) load slower than a page with 495 comments (still on its first subpage)? I never took notice.
@SQB
I have to check but the mobile version may not do page breaks
Giliell
I’m always amused when we get marketing calls on the phone (even though we’re on a do-not-call list), and I answer the phone. The phone is in my wife’s name, so they always ask, ‘Mr [wife’s name]?’ I always answer, ‘Sorry, there’s no one here called that; that’s my wife’s name. My name’s [my last name].’ There’s almost always a confused pause, and sometimes a surprised, ‘Really?’ For some folks, it’s like we’re from another planet.
I think it’s just bizarre that some of the women in my parents’ generation, whose husbands have been dead for decades, are still listed in various places as Mrs. John Whatever.
ScocioGen, I think you must have caught that from me. Last week I was blasting the keyboard with mighty sneezes and maybe some got through the ether. I went to see my mother yesterday…she can’t hear because of oldness and I can’t hear because of plugged ears. She said “What?” and I said “What?” and she said “What?” That was about it.
Last night I stayed up till 4 am drinking vodka and watching christian tv. Its good for mocking purposes but, phew, I am tired today.
SQB, one time I noticed that a hawk was after my chickens. It was very interesting in that the hens sat down quietly in the tall grass and the rooster was jumping around in the open trying to fight the hawk.
Welcome back, SQB.
The most interesting would be if we can demonstrate transgression of gender roles in other animals, and sanction for that transgression. Without sanction and transgression there really are no meaningful role (though both can be very subtle).
Other primates would of course be prime candidates, but other social animals would be interesting too. Wolves perhaps.
It might be hard to spot though, it’s hard enough in humans.
Ing, rq:
That’s why I would love to be able to pause a movie in the theater (shyeah right, like that will happen, ever). It’s also why I’m glad for DVR. Even when I watch a show by myself, sometimes I like to think about and process some bit of information.
One of the many things M and I used to do was watch and comment on movies and tv. He got me into watching Project Runway, and we would have running commentary throughout.
::Sigh::
I miss my lil’ buddy.
Oh fuck, I just realized tomorrow is three years to the day that I found him dead.
Tony
:
Nope, sorry. And, I’m convinced my almost complete lack of participation was the key to its success… the less I say, the better things are? :)
*hugs* Tony
Woot go thinking about movies shows etc. I’m very prothinking about these things ^.^
Anyone else had to face the obnoxious “Its science FICTION! So it doesn’t have to make sense” argument? I really really hate that one.
Yes.
When Eowyn confronted the Nazgul in the movie The Return of the King, it was all I could do to not shout out ‘What the fuck?!’ in the theater. Yes, Tolkien was sexist, but he was born, literally, in Victorian England, and raised for much of his childhood by a Catholic priest. So Peter Jackson had to take the strongest female character in his work, and turn her into a frightened squealer.
And when Frodo tells Sam to go home, and he does (or starts to), I stood up to leave, but my wife pulled me down again.
My wife does not like watching TV with me very much. I was raised by TV, and we have always had strong, vocal disagreements.
Must not have heard of hard science fiction.
Shit, most movies that are called science fiction are actually fantasies.
(Glares at Star Wars.)
Shit Tony I’m sorry.
Tony, that’s terrible. I’m fortunate enough to never have had something like that happen, so I don’t really know what to say except that I’m sorry.
Tony
*so many hugs!!!*
Gnumann+ @28
Anecdote: When I was little, we had geese. Supposedly a female pair, but whaddayanoh soon enough there were some fertilized eggs in the nest, and Mrs Goose was a-sitting on them. Every time – every time – she got up to get a bite to eat, Mr Goose nearly pecked her to death, until she went back to them eggs. She was this close to dying of starvation when the eggs finally hatched (4 healthy goslings, thank you). (Later one of the young males was killed by his father in a territorial dispute.)
Ing:
Yeah, same here. It doesn’t much register with me.
Also, while I do not expect Doctor Who to be hard science, I am beginning to get real annoyed at aspects of Steven Moffat’s fairy tale direction. While I loved the images of an air borne shark pulling a sled, wtf was that shit about the snowmen being melted by children’s tears.
“spits”
Ing:
speaking of Trek, I was talking with T the other day about how some of you ruined Star Wars for me because now I’m aware of the classist the movies are, as well as how not-so-nice the Jedi are. She is a fan of Star Trek, but my beef with Trek is how utopian it is. I long for a more just and fair society, but it isn’t going to happen in the short amount of time Roddenberry envisioned in his fictional universe. I also dislike-strongly-how disconnected episodes of each series are. I like character development and seasonal arcs. While the Trek series have the latter, the former is lacking. The characters change very little over the course of ST: TNG for instance. Another thing I like is a sense of continuity…the sense that events in the present are affected by what happened in the past. I had a writer once explain to me his preference for continuity by using ST: TNG as an example. If you marked every episode of the show on a card and tossed all the cards into the air, then randomly assembled them into a deck, the vast majority of episodes could be watched and you wouldn’t be able to tell they were out of order.
Contrast that with a show like Buffy, where that’s extremely difficult and you get my point.
That’s one of the reasons I think Babylon 5 may appeal to me. Serialized storytelling, continuity, and character development.
Actually, to be really annoying, Tolkien was born in South Africa.
Fiction also has to make sense even if it’s an internal logic. Superman flying is fine. Superman throwing a kryptonite mountain is shit
an airborne shark pulling a sled?????!!!!
****
thanks for the hugs, all.
I’m sure I will be a little melancholy tomorrow, but there’s enough distance from his death that it doesn’t hit me the way it used to.
HA! Not annoying at all. I should have remembered, and written the Empire in the time of Victoria Regina.
Just so you know, I really hate “first” posts, and they get deleted.
Sorry, PZ!
Ing:
Did you know that John Byrne attempted to insert some pseudo science into Superman’s background when he re-imagined his history back in 1986? He had Superman’s powers have both a physical and psionic basis. He was superhumanly strong, yes, but when he lifted objects, the same power that allowed him to fly-TK-held objects together so they wouldn’t collapse under their own weight. Likewise, his heat vision was changed so that he psionically agitated molecules to generate intense heat, rather than generating the heat internally.
I parsed that a bit different from what you meant and laughed.
Tony, to be fair, continuity in US TV shows really did not become common until shows like Wiseguys. Babylon 5 was able to arc over several season because it was a syndicated show.
Catching up from last thread:
Caine
Scritches and good wishes for Vasco.
Tony
Congrats on the new job too.
This is something I’ve noticed in my own live as well. I strongly suspect that rq has the right of it as to why. A number of female friends have explicitly told me that the reason for their comfort around me is that I was both physically and emotionally nonthreatening. (One explicitly said she felt she could relax around me because she knew that she could kick my ass if the need arose.)
I too have a tendency for my face to relax into ‘serious’ which many take as ‘offputting.’ Meanwhile, both ‘concentrating’ and ‘confused’ always seem to come across as angry (although L insists that the difference is obvious and other people just aren’t paying attention)
Pteryxx
I don’t really worry about the gender of my partners at all, and tend to let people worry about their own gender roles. That said, I don’t really like being around dudebros and their performance of masculinity, so I’d say that that particular gender role is one that turns me right off.
&nbnp;
Also, The Hammer is nifty, and was a big hit in our household.
Nepenthe
I agree completely on this score, with the caveats about dudebros I mention above. (including the bit about olives).
Beatrice
I agree completely.
Yuck! A foul fowl indeed.
You can’t trust those bloody feathered dinosaurs.
Geese are definitively on the list of animals I like far better once a substantial part of their anatomy is within my oven.
The hard bit with something as alien as fowl, is to determine if this is role at play or if it’s instinct.
Why are all the couches in this lounge Naugahyde? I stick to them when I sit around in my underwear.
Plus the snack machine rejects all of my dollar bills.
52nd?
@tony
Yeah when star trek started (ie tos) not having a running arc was common but it really dated a lot of the later series (voyager in particular SCREAMED for arcs and character growth but no). Also has its fair share of modern prejudices for a future utopia. There are enough interesting episodes that I still like it but not as much as I used to.
@Ing
Indeed internal logic very important to fiction. Though I would like some basic science as well. To pick on star trek having the crew dying by a silicon based virus is so silly I can’t imagine anyone with even basic science knowledge looked at the script.
To be fair, some of the longer descriptive passages in LotR might suggest that Tolkien had a penchant for being deliberately annoying.
Funny, my loonies just slip right in.
Tony @39: Babylon 5 is the best sci-fi series ever, IMO. Wonderful characters (Ivanova was my favourite). One of these days, I’m buying the set and breaking my no-DVD (or whatever the kids are using these days) rule.
Paul K
Yep. My parents have the same last name, but they are both MDs and when telemarketers say “Is Dr. [last name] there?” I like to confuse them by saying “Which one?” I’m upset by the letters, usually personal ones at that, addressed to “Dr. and Mrs. [last name]”. (The correct form of address is Drs X and Y Last Name. or Doctors Last Name. I’m tickled that etiquette rules have expanded to include this possibility.)
Nepenthe:
Wow, now that shows real sensitivity.
Remember when it was a big deal that in the cartoon series The Tick that when CHA was carved into the Moon, it stayed that way. And when the Moon was bitten, the bite marks remained.
One thing I really liked about Babylon 5 was that events that did not occur until nearly the end of the series were foreshadowed long before. I remember asking, ‘now what does that portend?’, and then had to wait years to find out!
Yay the tick great show ^.^
B5 really had the advantage of a lot of planning ahead. Compared to star trek or battlestar galactica where the over all story and even most cliffhangers was not planned ahead (yes they’re right half a cliff hanger drop it for months then come back and try to pick up the pieces).
Big gripe about B5 though is the vice president conspiracy to take over earth thing. I could have really done with taking out the middle man just have the president get tempted towards fascism. Maybe it’s something about american TV but conspiracies in the government to subvert power stuff just bugs me after a certain point. Fit in quite well with the Centauri wish it had stayed there.
rq,
What I meant was that we are adapted to be acculturated: a member of our species who does not grow up as part of a human culture is inevitably severely disabled in various ways. Part of being acculturated is learning key distinctions, such as human/non-human, edible/inedible, kin/non-kin, clean/dirty… It’s possible the existence of some of these has a biological basis – say in specific brain circuitry – even though what gets put in each category varies across cultures – and maybe, gender is one of these. Pure speculation really.
Not quite. I meant that within a sexual orientation, you can have preferences for how members of a gender you’re attracted to express their gender identity (both in and out of bed), and in particular, how far they conform to gender stereotypes. Tony@1371 got what I meant if that’s still not clear.
Well no, clearly it couldn’t if you didn’t! But for myself (and this is purely hypothetical as I’m in a monogamous relationship), if I were to be attracted to someone (and on past form that would be someone who appears and identifies as a woman), we got to the point of undressing, and I found she had male genitals, I’m as sure as one can be of this sort of thing that I’d just lose interest in continuing with the sexual interaction.
Afraid I eat olives too – can’t get enough of them, in fact! I guess in both areas you can learn to broaden your tastes – but to do so, perhaps you first have to want to.
Last names. I particularly dislike getting addressed as Mrs. Partnerslastname because a. we’re not married b. we wouldn’t have the same last name even if we were c. I’d be Dr. Partnerslastname if we were married and I took his last name and d. the person so addressing me is inevitably a fundraiser for an organization that should know better. Took the ACLU forever to issue me a card with my last name on it…
Tony, hugs if you want them.
My mother is 85, and I am always worried about the inevitable happening.
— — — — — — — — — —
Geese are merely showing their dinosaur heritage more clearly than the cute birds.
There is a new TV series, with digitally reconstructed moving dinosaurs that incorporate all the *new* findings about theropods: The four-winged glider, or the giant oviraptor predator that weighed at least a ton and a half, and had feathers for threat and mating displays. It looked a lot closer to a goose than T.Rex.
— — — — — — — — — —
A publisher to watch: “Spectacular fiction”.
An author to watch: Nick Mamatas, author of “Sensation”.
Did you know that toxoplasma gondii is not the only organism that alters the behaviour of its host?
Did you know that what we call “human” civilization is just the by-product of an ancient conflict between a social parasitic arachnid* and a parasitic wasp species?
OK, so the arachnids have a group intelligence, and strive not to harm their human hosts, but it is still creepy if you have tendencies of arachnaphobia.
— — — — — — — — — — — — — —
Another book by Spectacular fiction:
“Fire On The Mountain”
It is 1958, the second manned mission to Mars has landed and the Deep South is a socialist republic. A young black person goes on a journy to find the history of a great-grandfather who fought in the guerrilla army after John Brown launched his successful attack a century ago.
Tony@28
Shit. Big *hugs* and USBooze, mate.
Gilliell
Well, I’m bi, if that helps. :)
michaeld
Oh, me too. Or even fantasy, for that matter. I like Linkara’s show, but his slogan that ‘It’s magic, is doesn’t need an explanation’ really gets to me. Jsut because the rules of a sci fi/fantasy unverse are different that doesn’t mean they aren’t there. It has to be internally consistent and hang together, you have to be able to see how it makes sense within its own context. If it doesn’t, then the author has screwed up.
@Last names
L took mine, but that’s only because he’s disassociated himself from his family. Mom kept her last name, although the kids all got Dad’s. I had fun when I was a kid and we got telemarketers who would ask for ‘Mr. Momsname,’ and I’d explain that he was dead, and had been for 20 years and more (Mom’s dad), or ‘Mrs. Dadsname’ (My grandmother) who I would tell them lived in another state, and thus could not come to the phone right now, sorry.
Same here (actually I need to check we still are on such a list – they automatically take you off after x years in the UK). I have to be a bit careful in my response, as it may also be a professional contact of my wife, but it’s a useful heads-up.
“the best sci-fi series ever”
Hmm…Blake’s 7 ?
They were the ultimate underdogs.
— — — — — — —
“might suggest that Tolkien had a penchant for being deliberately annoying”
Cue song from Spitting Image: “I’ve never met a nice South African!”
You mean like “Frodo was very tired, Sam was very worried and Gollum ate a fish”?
I must have read the books like 20 times but I skipped that part most of them.
Yeah, Tolkie was a guy of his times. Although I still find Eowyn’s speech a wonderful insight into patriarchy.
By FSM, I wish I could unlearn some things.
Thanks to Paulburnett, I give you breast ironing
Janine:
good point about continuity.
Funny though, because soap operas had continuing stories for decades before prime time tv did. I wonder why.
“I really really hate that one”
Tolkien spent a looong time going back through the manuscripts, catching errors and contradictions. That was one of several ingredients in making the trilogy great.
Both SF and fantasy authors should make it a matter of honour to avoid inherent contradictions. And don’t get me started on TV or I will go on until springtime.
— — — — — —
(looks around for a Gila monster to swing as a weapon)
Ick yeah breast ironing….
Mildly amused your first reaction after “I wish I could unlearn this” was I better share it with more people. ;P
Really? Maybe it’s time for a reread, then. I don’t remember that bit.
Tony:
I could say many things here, but I’d have to use snark tags, and I’m not that great at snark. But it boils down to sexism, and the marketers views of their intended audience.
“Breast ironing”
“one in four”
OH SHIT!!!!!!!!
If I remember correctly, Ophelia has a couple of posts about breast ironing.
Jafafa Hots
I recommend laying down a towel between you and the couch. Saves a lot of stickiness. ;)
re: it’s SCIENCE FICTION, dammit
I like my science fiction to be more science than fiction, and if people tell me to suspend my belief, I usually tell them something not particularly polite. I have a hard time watching ridiculous shows for any length of time, unless I’m watching them for the ridicule.
Nick Gotts
Thanks for the elaborations. Yes, things are more clear now, and make more sense from your initial reply post. (Tony’s post helped, too.)
re: best sci fi show ever
I’ve been getting a couple of endorsements for Babylon 5 lately. I suppose that means I should take a look.
Gnumann+
Role vs. instinct? I suppose that begs the question, Do animals (e.g. geese) have culture, that might impose a role upon them, or do they follow instinct for everything? /slightly facetious
Admittedly, it’s maybe ten years since I read it last, so…
Nepenthe:
I just saw your comment about olives.
It seems you and Dalillama have good taste.
Those things are *awful*.
In fact, they are so bad, I will eat a plate full of peas before I eat them.
Amusing story:
A few years ago, while at work, I decided to play around with stuffed olives. It was a sloooooow Saturday night at my bar, and I was working with another bartender, who was more than able to handle the few guests at the bar. I decided to stuff olives for the morning bartender, because we had great Sunday brunch specials, and we did bottomless champagne/mimosas, and $2 Bloody Mary’s. I knew that people love blu cheese stuffed olives, but I wanted something a little different. So I pureed blu cheese, tabasco, lime juice, garlic and avocado together and, using a makeshift piping bag, filled a bunch of olives (after I depitted them).
Funny thing is: I don’t eat olives, so I had to ask other people how it tasted.
Apparently it was amazing, because people wouldn’t stop eating them. I had to hide the olives. After all, I was prepping them for guests to have the next day with their Bloody Mary’s.
I did wind up trying the mixture atop grilled salmon, and it was positively DELISH!
michaeld
It’s all about sharing the misery, ya know. :) Just like cute cats must be shared!
Tony
I don’t like olives, but if I start eating them, I can’t stop eating them. I’m not sure why. I honestly don’t like the taste, but I usually can’t help myself snatching up that first one. It’s terrible! (But I prefer them to peas, that I do!)
@dalilama
Linkara agrees with you. The motto is mocking JMS and Quesadas One More Day Spiderman where plot holes are waved away with that exact phrase.
Oddly his show has explained how it’s magic system works and is mostly consistent.
“She is a fan of Star Trek, but my beef with Trek is how utopian it is. I long for a more just and fair society, but it isn’t going to happen in the short amount of time Roddenberry envisioned in his fictional universe.”
The narrative universe of the German TV “Raumpatrouille” (1966) is also fairly utopian and even closer to the present.
— — — —
By the way, did you know Germans have a Kurd Lasswitz award, named after one of the really early German SF authors? It is a shame there are so few translations of non-Anglo-Saxon SF.
The things I know about geese:
They eat snails and grass (I think)
They are vicious bastards
Taste good
The French likes to torture them to obtain a slightly too fatty liver paste that’s just not worth to torture for
When animal rights activists protest against Canada Goose jackets for their fur trim, they never seems to worry about what happens to the goose.
None of which helps med explain if the birds have culture or if they are vicious by nature. So that was indeed the question.
Paul K #32
Eowyn = “frightened squealer”?
I always had a lot of admiration for Eowyn.
Yes, she was terrified to have to encounter the Witch-king of Angmar, Lord of the Nazgûl (possibly, only No.2 to Sauron himself) during the battle of the Pelennor Fields.
He was dismissive of her and threatened to “bear [her] away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where [her] flesh shall be devoured, and [her] shriveled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye.”
No matter how terrified she would have been, she slays the horrible creature ridden by the Witch-king and fights against him despite being injured.
“But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund’s daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.”
Merry, who she had brought with her, stabbed the Witch-king (unknown to Eowyn who seemed to expect no such help). With is attention diverted Eowyn produced the death blow and collapsde, as if dead.
When push comes to shove, frightened and squealing, that is one feisty woman, despite the real and terrible dangers.
What gets my goat about the film version is the character assassination of Farramir. In the film, he is weak. He hesitates and can’t make the crucial decision. He holds Sam and Frodo captive and they almost loose the ring to one of the Nazguls. In the book, he helps Frodo as much as he can with food, guidance and warnings. He shows his true character by rejecting the ring out of hand:
“But fear no more! I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory. No, I do not wish for such triumphs, Frodo son of Drogo.”
The contrast between the brothers, Boromir and Farramir is totally lost.
Yikes! I said bastard. Old habits die hard (I suppose it’s on the “don’t say that, it reinforces patriarchy”-list)
Sorry!
The soaps were based on keeping their audience tuned in everyday. On going plot lines and cliffhangers were how this was done. Also, they were stretching out plot lines over several hours every week.
The old style TV show were going for the largest possible audience and having continuity would exclude people who have not watched past episodes. This has changed with cable stations cutting into the audience (There will never be mass numbers for an event show like Roots.) and the advent of VHS, DVD and online streaming. Now, they are more interested in keeping a certain percentage of a demographic in order to remain profitable. How else could shows like 30 Rock and Community remain on. They do not get the same ratings that Cheers and The Cosby Show did.
(I still remain perplexed by how Two And A Half Men goes on.)
Nick Gotts
That makes sense I guess. I certainly can’t see any benefit of eating olives though.
rq,
I haven’t seen Babylon 5 either, I think we should both watch it.
The series has never been shown on our TV. For shame, really, especially since the reason was quite probably political (Mira Furlan not being enough of a nationalist during the war).
Giliell:
I don’t know how I missed your comment here.
I know exactly what you mean.
I’ve noticed a tendency among many couples I know that neither one is “allowed” to have friends of the opposite sex. Now, aside from the massively insulting notion that anyone gets to dictate who my friends are, I find it silly because there’s always an implied jealousy/ownership. Many men don’t want their girlfriends hanging out with guys (sometimes even GAY men). The reasons are rarely given, but one can figure it out. I’ve found the same thing with women saying they don’t want their boyfriends to hang out with women. It’s as if neither partner trusts the other to keep their hands to themselves and their clothes on.
It’s very aggravating.
It is entirely possible to have a platonic relationship with members of the opposite sex, whether both parties are gay, straight, or anywhere in between.
Gnumann+
From personal experience, they are vicious by nature. Also terribly large birds, and ready to be aggressive at the slightest provocation. This is personal opinion based on experience with house geese and Canada geese in the wild. I doubt they have culture; dinosaurs didn’t evolve that far.
Right? :)
And now for something completely different:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/pillsbury/10-food-sculptures-too-incredible-to-eat-2pec
Nick:
Heh. My long time girlfriend was what I’d call ultra-femme (make-up, hair, clothes all that) and had fabulous breastses and a fabulous penis. I consider that a right nice combination.
Some dinosaurs have culture. The corvids to name one group.
House M.D. was a pretty decent sci-fi show.
Imagine a future where middle-income or poor people with an undiagnosed illness get a team of six of the top doctors in the country working 24 hours a day with the latest tech to try to help them.
OK, maybe it was just fantasy after all.
Ing@ 81
It is now, but in the early days he played that card pretty heavily before he retconned explanations into everything. Which admittedly could easily be part of the schtick too, since the whole thing is a send-up of comics tropes. But anyway, magic damned well does need to be explained.
Tony:
That’s because they don’t. A majority of hetro people have an underlying suspicion that a friendship with the person of the opposite sex will eventually reach a point of emotional closeness, which will in turn lead to sex. And that does happen – but I think it happens more because there’s always been this reinforcement that friends should be of the same sex as you.
People also get suspicious and upset about same sex friendships – a hetro woman may perceive the homosocial bonding her husband does to be more intimate (emotionally) than what they have in their relationship; a hetro man may fear that the bonding a woman has with other women may lead to criticism of him or make her think she could do better, etc.
Beatrice
Maybe we can do an episode-by-episode, almost-synchro watch of Babylon 5. :)
Tony
I’m a jealous person by nature, and I know that, and it takes all my effort to know that the Husband has female friends (girl friends?). But I make a conscious effort to overcome this, because it is rooted in the refusal to believe that anybody would actually remain with me, if offered the choice of someone else. It’s taken a lot of personal effort to overcome this, and I’m still not perfect, but I know I’m better than I was. I’m terrified of being left, left behind. Sometimes I still can’t assure myself that he’s with me by choice and that he wants to be with me, which makes me an ass sometimes, but he bears with it, to an admirable degree. But yeah, terrified of being left.
Which is strange, because I’m perfectly alright with being alone.
All of that, I think, is rooted in the fact that I’m a possessive person. I like to own things. I consciously resist this, as well, and am slowly improving.
So sometimes I can understand why people might want to limit the friendships of their partners, while realizing that they’re wrong. And I can’t understand why they don’t realize it’s wrong, and try to do something about it. *sigh* People.
Jafafa Hots:
I’m the only person I know who couldn’t stand that show. It was the same exact fucking show each and every time. Boring.
Gnumann+
Point acknowledged. :)
There was also a species of bird in Oceania, where the males learned songs and improvised new ones, that they taught to other birds. Ring a bell?
And sorry, but I have to run off – will catch up tomorrow!
Good night, everyone!
PS Caine
You sort of know me. Watched a lot of that show, but by the second season, Husband and I were reciting the lines with the cast – “His kidney’s are failing! The liver is shutting down! If we don’t transplant within the next 24 hours, s/he will DIE!” That was fun. ;)
rq:
Fear of abandoment is pretty common. The trick is for you both to be aware that’s at the bottom of a lot of emotions and possible actions/reactions. It will get better. It did for me.
rq:
You’re the first person I’ve known who didn’t simply praise that show to the skies.
I grew to hate House
It’s never lupus! (except when it is)
(Actually, my aunt has lupus.)
House was a horrible fucking doctor who should have been fired
Damn.
I drove home, make a pizza for dinner, and am already inhabiting Threadruptia! Not fair.
Several species does this, at least as mimicry. I can’t quite remember names though.
And some species of birds I can’t quite name either dance in pairs for courtship. One apprentice and one master. The apprentice doesn’t get to mate, but he gets to be master one day – IANAB, but this seems a bit complex for instinct…
I liked House. For a while. But it grew boring, and I soon started hating it after the three regular assistants (more or less) left and House started torturing the candidates.
I don’t handle humiliation well and at some point House had become quite outrageous with humiliating everyone. Although, it could be argued that it was his MO from the beginning.
Hmmmm…
Serialized TV shows. Watching Willow grow as a character was one of the joys of Buffy. But there was one thing about her development that bothered me. Actually, it was more how some fans reacted that bothered me.
I did not celebrate when Tara got back with Willow. Willow was abusive of Tara. Simply because the means that she used to make Tara be the woman Willow wanted was not violent does not mean it was not abuse. Few fans ever commented about that.
I like Hugh Laurie, but I couldn’t abide the character of House. Christ, he was basically a whiny narcissist with zero compassion for anyone else. In what world is that attractive?
TLC should be here to start telling stories about his mynah bird.
Tony
Jealousy is something I never got.
Envy, yes, jealousy, no.
Mr. and I have always had a distance relationship and at the most that distance was 10.000 km. We needed to trust each other or it wouldn’t work. So, he has female friends (actually, he has more female friends than male ones) and they’d been friends for a long time before he even knew me. Now, if they were couple material, they would have found out by the time we met. So, we joke about that he’s going to see another woman for lunch. The question is S or B, greetings and love to her.
+++
Wow, these people truely have no shame
Yeah, it’s quite possible that I hung onto “liking” House for as long as I did because I really do like Hugh Laurie.
As Gnumann and rq have pointed out, there are bird species with what you would define as a culture. Tits from the family Paridae being a particularly good example. There is the case of blue tits learning how to open bottles of milk delivered to the doorsteps. The behaviour is far rarer now due to most people buying milk from the supermarket than from the milkman:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_tit#Learning
There is also the more recent discovery of Great tits in Hungary hunting bats during harsh winters!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8245165.stm
I agree. When reading the books, it always seemed to me that it was a big point to show the difference in attitude between Boromir and Faramir; pride, arrogance and ambition (which what originally lead the nine to fall to the influence of the rings) vs. humility and simplicity (paralleling the small halflings having more power than was apparent).
I haven’t seen the all the films, but if your description is correct, then they’ve really missed something.
The GOP? The Tea Party?
Ogvorbis:
Yeah…okay.
“His kidney’s are failing! The liver is shutting down! If we don’t transplant within the next 24 hours, s/he will DIE!”
That’s not when you transplant.
Dianne:
Yabbut, drama. With extra eleventy one.
Giliell,
re: criticism of Greta Christina’s spending
What a bunch of assholes. The little that Stephanie didn’t cover in her post, you covered in your comment so there really isn’t much else to say.
Ing:
You.
Mentioned.
One More Day????!!!!!
I’m going to go cry now. I still think it was stupid to eliminate the marriage because “kids cannot relate to a married Peter Parker”. I dropped the Spider-Man titles for a few years after that.
I’ve come to enjoy them again with Dan Slott writing, but I still maintain that the target audience for most American comics *may* be teens, but the hobby is supported by adults. *And* the stories that have come out since OMD would not be significantly altered with Peter and MJ married, so the whole “there are so many more stories to tell with a single Peter Parker, rather than a married one” haven’t borne out.
Caine
This has happened in my heterosexual (and homosexual for that matter) relationships. I find that it saves a lot of stress and anxiety to just not worry about it, really; my romantic partners aren’t my property, and neither is their sexuality. Of course, I recognize that many people feel monogamy is part of the emotional commitment in their relationships, but I’ve always thought that most people make much too big a deal out of it.
rq
I suspect, however, that this is actually at the root of a lot of the sexual jealousy thing. I further suspect that it’s worse the more ‘traditional’ a relationship is. By this I mean, for instance, that a couple who married young, had no sexual partners but each other, and didn’t have sex with each other until they married seems like they’d be more prone to worrying ‘what if he/she likes someone else better? What if it turns out that I’m a bad lover and this other person is better than me?’ etc. compared to a couple where both parties have had multiple past sexual relationships/partners, where there’s more confidence of “out of them all, he/she picked me.” I can’t prove it, it’s just a suspicion, and of course there will always be individual personality differences that also influence how worried someone will be about that type of thing.
Seeing that the tweeters were Renee Hendricks and Fletch Grogan, it is hard to take them seriously. They pile on just because Greta is outspoken.
You are thinking of long tailed manakins. This article explains more and shows the males cooperating in their courtship dance. I would agree that there seems to be more than instinct at play.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7891243.stm
dianne
A spam mail?
For years I had a reply saved for the well-meaningly forwarded “Help, my son/daughter/mum/dad/goldfish/hamster has Leukemia and needs a donor who is AB-” explaining people that no, if you have Leukemia your blood-type is actually not important and that they will at best lower people’s willingness to actually do something like register themselves for marrow-donation.
+++
Yeah. All the really good folks in the book could have the ring but reject it. Gandalf, Aragorn, Galadriel, Faramir. That’s the only thing I can’t forgive Peter Jackson.
Sam says something in the movie about “We shouldn’t even be here” I agree.
Spent all day building a new workbench with the FIL for my shop. Almost done. Been a good day.
I wouldn’t say I loathe House the show, but oh boy did it lose it’s allure fast. Every episode in the same formula and no real development in the characters or in their relationships. And House the character is an annoying sociopath. And Perry Cox would kick his ass :P
Caine @110:
That is the reason I *hated* Brian’s character on the American Queer as Folk. He was most rude, obnoxious, self centered person on the show. I really don’t see what anyone like about him.
Fuck yeah Perry Cox!
I loved Scrubs, except that towards the end they sort of regressed JD and stripped him of character development and made him super cartoon quirky. House I thought was OK until they did the same thing with him.
Are people really outraged that Greta bought shoes? Is this going to turn into shoegate and be another example of DEEP RIFTS? Christ, these people will whinge about anything. It’s pathetic.
Tony:
Yeah, I agree. And the whole “he’s really an emotional good guy who was trying to protect Justin” crap at the end was not enough to salvage the character, at least not for me.
I had the same problem with Jenny in The L Word. Holy cow, did I ever want one her whiny “I’m going to off myself! *sob*” scenes to actually happen. Follow through, please. (There was that one ep. where she adopted an elderly dog, just so she could have it put down to fuck up someone else’s relationship, yada, yada, yada.)
Janine
Right on wrt Buffy. I even watch season one, just because I can’t stand to miss the character development. (Yes. That’s present tense.)
I love how as the show progresses I find myself identifying less and less with Willow and more and more with Tara and Buffy.
@rq, beatrice and anyone thinking of watching b5 for the first time
The first season of B5 is well frankly a bit rough around the edges. Its not nearly as bad and unwatchable as season 1 of TNG but its not the best the series has to offer. Season 2-3 though are great and 4 is very good. Just be aware the show had some minor growing pains before it caught it’s stride.
because why?
America’s Lead Menace http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/03/america-s-new-red-menace-lead.html
Hmm…Is the situation in urban USA regarding lead pollution really this bad? Sounds a bit like having to live in Pripyat, Ukraine.
Tony,
Hah. Queer as Folk. I remember the first time I stumbled over an episode. My innocent little self watched with interest but then realized there were some strange things happening all men in a club! dancing! and kissing! and OMG is that one wearing just really small shorts!? *changes the channel quickly*
I did continue watching it for a while, and later watched the whole thing on YouTube (wasn’t aware of torrents then).
I couldn’t stand Michael.
W00dview:
Eh, it’s primarily Hoggle and Hendricks, the toxic twins. Idiots both, who have made it their life’s work to rail against all things FTB and the uppity bitches and manginas. Hendricks, in particular, couldn’t figure out how to get out of a wet paper bag if you even handed her scissors. Her ‘arguments’ here were beyond laughable before she got herself banned. She’s a pitter, too.
Who As Folk.
The original article about lead pollution and crime in Mother Jones: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline
Michaeld:
I disagree. I liked Sinclair much more than Sheridan. Also, Season 1 has the awesome sauce of G’kar explaining things to Catherine Sakai:
Catherine Sakai: Ambassador! While I was out there, I saw something. What was it?
G’Kar: [points to a flower with a bug crawling on it] What is this?
Catherine Sakai: An ant.
G’Kar: Ant.
Catherine Sakai: So much gets shipped up from Earth on commercial transports it’s hard to keep them out.
G’Kar: Yes, I have just picked it up on the tip of my glove. If I put it down again, and it asks another ant, “what was that?”, [laughs] how would it explain? There are things in the universe billions of years older than either of our races. They’re vast, timeless, and if they’re aware of us at all, it is as little more than ants, and we have as much chance of communicating with them as an ant has with us. We know, we’ve tried, and we’ve learned that we can either stay out from underfoot or be stepped on.
Catherine Sakai: That’s it? That’s all you know?
G’Kar: Yes, they are a mystery. And I am both terrified and reassured to know that there are still wonders in the universe, that we have not yet explained everything. Whatever they are, Miss Sakai, they walk near Sigma 957, and they must walk there alone.
G’Kar: Let me pass on to you the one thing I’ve learned about this place. No one here is exactly what he appears. Not Mollari, not Delenn, not Sinclair… and not me.
Things have moved along, but:
Just to be clear, alanbagain, I was comparing the strong Eowyn of the book, who laughs — quite literally — in the face of Death, to the frightened rabbit in the movie. In the book, she wants to fight, like all the men she loves and admires. She was raised among warriors, and identifies with them. (There’s also the fatalism involved with thinking Aragorn is unattainable). I didn’t really understand her motivation for going along with the Rohirrim in the movie. She was scared nearly out of her wits before the battle even began.
LykeX, #72:
This might be the quote Giliell was refering to in the comment at 67. Eowyn is responding to Aragorn, who has just told her to stay in Rohan because it is her duty:
This was not the Eowyn of the movie. She may have actually said the words (I don’t recall), but she didn’t show the truth of them with her actions. And I looked forward to the scene on the Pelennor for years.
Giliell @125: “That’s the only thing I can’t forgive Peter Jackson.”
Agreed, but I’d add miscasting and the extra importance he gave to Merry and Pippin. In the movie, they convince the Ents to fight, as though they needed the wisdom of a couple of gormless halflings. And Pippin lighting the fire to summon the Rohirrim?
Oh, and Legolas doing his Spider-man impersonation during the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. And the lame soundtrack. I should stop now.
I always wondered if the British Queer as Folk was better than the American version.
****
At the height of my tv watching (around 2009, when M was alive), I was keeping up with 7 or 8 shows. Never found time to watch House though.
Another one I never watched, but want to: Battlestar Galactica (the newer version).
I can’t forgive Peter Jackson for padding King Kong. That movie could have been so much better without the filler.
What I really can’t forgive Peter Jackson:
All the fucking dwarf jokes.
Oh, and I second the bit about Ëowyn.
Never watched the British version of QAF. Because I’m biased against American remakes, I’m assuming the original was better.
@Caine
I wouldn’t say its bad it just didn’t work for me (and anecdotally from some others I’ve talked to) as well as later seasons. Sinclair wasn’t bad but he was a bit… stiff ( which worked really well in his later appearances). Sheridan seemed more in key with the material. Several of the memorable dud episodes for me are also in season 1. I don’t really mean it as a scare people away just to me the show got a lot better in the next 2 seasons where I think it deserves the most credit.
Peter Jackson.
The same person who gave us Dead/Alive.
I only watched it for the snark.
braggart.
I’m still not sure whether I’m going to forgive Peter Jackson for dragging The Hobbit through three movies. I’ll have to at least watch the first one.
Michaeld:
I really loathed all the “star killer” crap and how the glory of being a sociopathic killer in war was constantly emphasised with Sheridan.
Jafafa Hots:
Hey, she was something to brag about! :D
glory of being a sociopathic killer in war
Sontarans?
Off topic, but remember the conversation about hot sauces that cropped up yesterday(?) on a different thread? I give you Sriracha popcorn.
Gnumann @: Thirded, but it’s (accent pedantry) Éowyn.
Janine:
No. It was always about Sheridan having the rep as being the one who killed more Minbari than anyone else in the war. Big ass Killer. There was never one opportunity missed to bring that into things.
Hehe yeah I agree with you there, course I find the animosity the held against Sheridan over that far stupider then the glorifying aspects. But I kind of don’t want to get into details in case people want to watch it :-/
OK RQ, Beatrice (others?) go watch quick and report back on who you agree with so we can discuss this in detail! ;p
Chas, wouldn’t the fact that a junior manakin has to learn the courtship dance from a older, more experienced male suggest that instinctive behaviour alone would be insufficient to explain this behaviour? If it was purely instinctive why be an apprentice to a more successful male? Wouldn’t you have the right moves from the beginning if it was just instinct? Now I have not checked the latest literature and do not know if ornithologists have determined what the main driver of this behaviour is, but if it is instinct then it is very complex instinct.
Caine, these pitters are really becoming the Ann Coulters of the atheism scene. Make shit up and spew hatred at any opportunity. I’m pretty cool with alienating folks like that from the “movement”. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Rob: Drat! At least I didn’t go for Ê.
I need a new pair of glasses. I just now realize what Rob Grigjanis’s avatar is.
…
… I haven’t seen most of the shows you folks are talking about. :(
w00view:
Good description.
re. babylon 5
I don’t have unlimited internet, so I have to ration any downloading. It might take some time to finish even just one season that way :)
OK I’ll go into a bit more detail look away spoiler concerned people though its not too spoilery I think .
It was one of earth’s only victories and it was an important ship that he blew up. The minbari got really upset that in during their genocidal war where they were accepting no surrender and out powered their opponents that the enemy had the nerve to blow up one of their ships. And they keep bringing it up. Cry me a river if the I don’t feel sorry you lost a ship during your genocidal little campaign. The glorifying it part was over played but I found the reasons for the minbari anger over it was dumber.
TV show discussion
Buffy: Yeah, I was super creeped out by Willow’s manipulation of Tara before they broke up. I otherwise adore Willow, so I’d prefer to pretend that never happened.
The L Word: Caine, I will join you in the “Let’s hate Jenny!” corner, along with the majority of queer women, I’m sure. I almost gave up on the show just because I couldn’t stand Jenny any longer. I made it to the end eventually, but the last 3 seasons took a lot of patience.
Tolkien was largely a product of his times, but there is one speech that makes me forgive him of a lot. To wit:
I prefer to think that she learned from it.
Michaeld:
I couldn’t disagree more. I loathe the glorification of war and I loathe the glorification of “soldier! look at him slaughter!” There’s a lot of sexism and conceptual masculinity tied into the glorification of war, though, so I expect most people didn’t find it irritating or upsetting.
Nutmeg:
Yep, same here. I was having the worst time following the show because of Jenny. I made it through, but gods, did I ever want her to die. Or disappear. Whatever. Alice was my fave character, next was Shane, so I kept up for them.
Janine has introduced me to an amazing site. I put in John 1:1 (“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”) and the last thing it managed to say in English before wandering off to total gibberish was “The orders of nothing of butter pears.”
I think it makes more sense than the original, don’t you?
Sheridan killed the most Minbari because he’s the only one that actually won a fight. The Minbari were just plane old assholes
Nepenthe, a couple of years ago, I infected this blog with that site.
Now, I try to save it for special occasions.
But I like that!
I didn’t think we were allowed to disagree on pharyngula :( ;p
I see where you’re coming from and do agree that it has some nasty baggage tied to it. I think for some reason I’m may be more forgiving of some of the stupid tropes that tend to get batted around over and over again then I am of bad writing for some reason. Something I should think about.
The Minbari anger of Sheridan is hard to take seriously when the only reason his strategy worked was because the Minbari were engaging in war crimes. Again this is a culture that has a religious and military caste dominating all politics. They are pure myopic war glorifying theocratic assholes.
Two points:
1) That makes the Narn, or at least G’Kar (not unreasonalbe given that he’s so introspective), more knowledgeable that anyone else in the galaxy.
2) It’s kinda Lovecraftian: Great, inhuman power that control our fates with no chance of us changing their path.
@Paul
Thanks for the quote.
Janine:
I’d like that to be the case, but it doesn’t seem to be emphasized. To me, Willow seems to focus on her magic addiction as the problem.
Looking back at B5 a lot of it was held up by some really good acting. There are times when the writing plummets.
Ing:
So…the same as humans.
Its also held together by the planning ahead. Without the foreshadowing of events and building up that it does, its kind of grand scale story arc it probably would have fared worse (BSG could have really used some of this).
Nutmug, the equating of magic use to drug use really bothered me.I know they needed a shorthand to convey the effects that magics can have on a person. But it was so literal, it became painful to watch. Especially Crash, the episode of the show I hated the most.
<blockquoteAgain this is a culture that has a religious and military caste dominating all politics</blockquote
Had, if memory serves. Didn’t they alter the composition of the Grey Council to include a majority of the Worker Caste?
But, it’s still true that at the time, they were governed by soldiers and fanatics; not a good combo.
Nepenthe, always remember the important message of John 3:16: “In addition to creating a world in which love, death. In the music.”
I WILL kill you, blockquote. If it takes the rest of my life, I will destroy you.
@LykeX
Yes they did because the workers were being exploited. The Warrior Caste was basically thugs and the Religious Caste was the happy smiling hippy face they put on so they could be respected as wise and spiritual. After all it was the Religious Caste who declared genocide on humanity.
Also too big of a spoiler but yeah consider who set up that system
Ing @174: “They are pure myopic war glorifying theocratic assholes.”
Well, they did offer the (rather lame) excuse that they went temporarily insane, as a race. Didn’t take much, apparently.
@ caine
I’d say no not to the same degree. Just as there’s the sexism of 100 years ago and the sexism of today (at least in the west). They’re both bad but one is less bad (in this case less genocide, war crimes, more diplomacy, also compare why the human led wars and the minbari war ended).
@lyke
yeah blockquote is a tricky tricky thing….
Oh yeah that’s an excuse. And recall that their reason for NOT killing all humans wasn’t that they realized it was wrong to genocide another race.
Re Buffy:
The “drugs are bad, m’kay” was terrible. Especially since it came out of the blue. There was no foreshadowing of “magic is a dangerous thing even if you don’t fuck up the spells because reasons” in the first seasons. We get to watch Willow become a strong character and a strong person, but suddenly it’s like “oh shit, she’s more powerful than Buffy now and we can’t have a female character who isn’t disabled by her power in some way, so magic is gonna be a drug now”. There are better narrative ways of dealing with magic to keep one character from becoming overpowering. Of course, we throw away the whole idea of having any sort of reasonable balance of power between protagonists and between protagonists and villans in season 7 anyway, so what the hell.
/rant
Willow’s abuse of Tara could have been done with the drug analogy because it could have easily fit in with how abuse is done, who has the power and privilege. And Willow was more powerful then Tara. And she did not want to hear about any complaints that Tara had, so Willow silenced her. That fact that Willow could be vindictive was already established.
But I really hate the magic as drug abuse arc. Hate. Hate. Hate.
Michaeld:
Yeah, I suppose. I think in the context of B5, humans simply hadn’t had the opportunity to get as powerful and nasty. Also, the way it struck me was that in season 1, Sinclair was shown as sensitive and empathetic, thoughtful and inclined to ‘bookishness’. In Season 2, the Minbari were written as the toxic femine archetype, whiny, secretive and manipulative, while Sheridan was written as the ManlyMan™ masculine archetype, a killer, a good soldier, stubborn, a problem solver and so on. The whole thing just struck me badly, left a bad taste in my brain.
Fun trivia: the Minbari were originally supposed to be a genderless androgynous species
bad taste in my brain
Your head is not like a normal head.
Nepenthe and Janine
RE:Willow, Hear, hear. I agree on all points, so I won’t go on there.
Tony
The new Battlestar Galactica has quite a a lot of really good bits, leavened with some deeply, deeply stupid bits. It’s hard to say more than that without getting all spoilery, though.
 :
I haven’t seen B5, but a lot of people say I should.
Caine: I always related most to Dana, so I lost a lot of incentive to watch after she died. Alice and Shane were the runners up, though. I remember reading an article on a queer website that suggested that, on a first date with a girl, you ask what she thinks about Jenny. If she likes Jenny, you run away screaming. Seemed pretty reasonable to me.
Janine and Nepenthe: Yeah, I really hated the “magic=drugs” storyline too. It was so heavy-handed, and so obviously done to diminish Willow’s power. It especially frustrated me because, in earlier episodes, Willow was shown paying a physical price for doing magic (exhaustion, nosebleeds, etc.). If they wanted to limit her power, that would have been a plausible mechanism without all the anti-drugs preachiness.
True, their reasoning was that human were spiritually identical to Minbari. That’s the equivalent of realizing it’s wrong to kill Jews because they were really Aryans all along.
If you’re talking about the one at ended a few years ago, I loved it despite some glaring flaws and… Well.. Ending.
Tony
This is one of the things I love about Netflix. I can yell at the screen in the comfort of my own home.
Also, *headbonks* sorry about M.
Ing
Yep, there are shows that get yelled at. A lot. This is why Fox News is not allowed in this household.
*gets lost in the scifi discussion*
@caine
hmm I dunno. The Minbari were already fairly secretive to begin with I’m not sure that season 2 did much to change it. Sheridan has emotional baggage and his greatest successes to me were always in diplomacy. Despite touting his war hero status at the start he seemed more a great leader another often male archetype but not necessarily the same one.
I am currently watching Voyager. There is yelling.
I do not watch that show (Voyager) and even I know about Janeway and Paris regressing to amphibious creatures and mating.
I will speak no more of it.
She was a fast machine; she kept her motor clean.
She was the best damn laptop that I ever seen!
3yr old macbook pro with endless repair issues replaced by apple, with a little extra money turned into the new retina display/SSD version.
She’s GORGEOUS, and oh my goodness, waiting at startup exists, but ain’t nothing like any laptop I’ve ever used. The SSD start up times are fantastic. The Retina(ridiculous name TM) display is deceptively gorgeous. I was looking at my partner’s laptop this morning wondering how a Retina display could be better when I couldn’t see individual pixels anyway. I don’t know how they do pixel blending (though I know that they do it) to make the pixels on the best screens seem NOT to be individual units even though they are. But they do a good job, so what was I going to notice anyway?
Short answer: everything.
The icon for Numbers in the dock is a 3-D histogram overlaid on something that looks like some vague calendar/spreadsheet thingy.
At the top there’s a white squiggle supposed to be an abstract design that represents some spreadsheet-title without actually being one – one would presume that this is because they want it to be generic, so you can believe it’s something that might be relevant to you.
Except that with the new display, you can see that the abstract squiggle is actually the word “Numbers” in all caps, though very small and angled funny from the 3D perspective. You can read
Every. Single. Letter.
Sigh.
My album covers in iTunes? Righteous Resolution, Batman! I often couldn’t find an album pic that was the right resolution when I was searching, so I saved a lot of album covers in much higher resolutions. The album icons are still approx 1″ by 1″ … but the resolution is so much better that I can see details I didn’t know existed on those things.
And the sound? Frenzied F*ing Funk, Batman!
Okay, I had the 13″ with only 1 speaker before, but I’ve used lots of laptops before, and listened to music on a fair few. This thing has a subwoofer that gets completely eaten when the center of the computer’s base in on your legs, but if you spread your legs to support it by only the edges – or, better, rest it on a table/desk surface – the laptop is as loud as and at least as clear as any set of desktop speakers for $150 or less that I’ve ever heard (though, I admit, if you get a good combo that isn’t *only* desktop – a set with a big subwoofer that sits on the floor, for instance you can beat the laptop’s bass by a good margin for $150-200). And you don’t have to carry the darn things with you.
With Ms. Cripdyke’s laptop (borrowed for the entirety of last semester since my old macbook broke immediately before the term with no time to go through repairs/replacement until break) you have to struggle to hear dialog on some streaming video at even max volume. On this thing, if you were intended to hear the dialog on the TV, you hear it on this machine. I tried it out on a bad copy of a TV episode that I had recently had trouble hearing. It’s loud enough I’d worry about waking up the kids in the next room if I did it after they were asleep – my usual streaming time.
I am absolutely sure that this machine has drawbacks besides the price and the tight DRM of Apple. But Unholy Fucktoy of Gods, the pure functionality of being able to see text you would otherwise miss, ID icons from farther away, enjoy music that would otherwise be tinny background noise, and skip the vast majority of waiting one does every time one starts, reboots, or wakes a laptop … at 2kg! … it’s enough to make me overlook a lot.
A. LOT.
Damn. I love this thing.
Back in Black just came on. Gotta go, read law and rock out. When I’m a zillionaire every single one of the horde regulars gets one of these on hir birthday.
@Ing
Oh I’m so sorry :(
Voyager totally squandered its premise and characters. Harry is useless and underdeveloped to the point of just taking up space. Chakotay is based on awful native american stereotypes the writers got from a con man. The only running plot lines are mostly stupid ( see neelix’s jealousy of tom) when all the characters should have some sort of arc and growth. Almost no maquis/federation animosity. No sense they’re trapped far from home where decisions and supplies matter. So much love for the reset button and forgetting the consequences of an episode. Janeway is occasionally just evil. I could go on and on about voyager.
My “neutral” face apparently looks like an “I’m damned pissed off!” face. It took a while for me to believe it, but in the face of enough data, I have been forced to concede that it must be so.
A couple of times when people have asked what was wrong, I’ve told them, “I’m not mad; I’m just drawn that way!”, which used to get a laugh.
–
–
*hugs* and sympathy for the cold, Socio-gen. I’ve finally got mine on the run. I hope yours is fleeting.
–
Hi, SQB! Welcome back.
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*manymanyhugs*, Tony.
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Yes. IMO, it’s because they are blurring the SF/Fantasy border…which, admittedly, can sometimes we deliberately blurry.
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Olives are nummy.
–
Blu-ray.
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Big fan of The Tick.
Spoon!
–
?????
Can has details? Linky?
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“Breast ironing is extremely painful and can cause tissue damage.”
Noooo!!!!!
</heavy sarcasm>
–
As an undergraduate, I went to a screening of Troy with my classical mythology class. The professor got kicked out of the theater for yelling at the screen.
In Attic Greek. :D
No they’re not even doing that. Good Fantasy works on its own set of rules. They’re excusing shit writing.
Watching now the Voyager episode with Ferengi setting themselves up as gods. The shear audacity of them showing the Ferengi being revealed and played the DRAMATIC BAD THING SCORE. Where we have goblins dressed as Aladin genies
Saw the wallaby picture and just had to comment, although unrelated to the present discussion (apologies).
Most days, at dusk, a mother and joey just like the ones in the photo come to my backyard and graze for an hour or so (sometimes there are as many as 5-6). When they’re feeling bold, they come right up outside the bedroom windows. I feel very lucky to just watch these beautiful creatures.
Oggie @155:
O.O
I want some Sriacha popcorn!
…Really Voyager? You’re pulling the Prime Detective when Ferengi are already exploiting a primitive society? WTF?
Ing, check out the first action figure.
*snort*
Janine:
My most hated episode is probably Doublemeat Palace, followed by Beer Bad.
I do agree that the “magic use=drug/alcohol abuse” was ham fisted.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/DOCTOR-WHO-5-DESTROYED-CASSANDRA/dp/B0014DRL72
Oh god. This is the funniest fucking thing ever
@Ing
That was one of the one’s I mentioned in the italy thread. Another strange case in voyager prime directive lore though I’ll let you watch it.
@Janine
I want mutant tom paris :( Actually on that list I own the Dennis Neadry JP toy somewhere :P.
Tony: I literally cannot imagine the stress and awfulness. Today is one of the more important anniversaries with Ms Cripdyke. I think of this day with such joy, maybe I can offer you some of my joy and you can shed a little of the awful to folks who can shoulder it today. It is one of the wonderful functions of the horde.
Even the bad episodes had scenes that were worthwhile. Doublemeat Palace had the training video and Buffy’s reaction to it. And Beer Bad had the scenes with Parker and Willow.
Crash did not even have those grace notes.
Partner is pressuring me into buying the Destroyed Casandra Figure
DOCTOR WHO 5″ DESTROYED CASSANDRA
On my fucking non-existent god! That is fucking fabulous!
Oop. Oh my…
Esteleth:
My wife kicked me out of the room for screaming at the TV while we were “screening” Troy… just a terrible movie.
How many stories in Voyager were “Captain single-handedly saves ship, proves crew to be extraneous” or the “Captain performs crew duties better than crew, proves crew to be extraneous” storylines? They were constantly trying to prove that Catherine Janeway really was the captain or something.
@Ckitching
More often it was “Tom Paris can do every job on the ship while steering it with his dick”
This is almost as good as the Destroyed Cassandra Figure.
The Cassandra Action Figure
Action figure?
hehe
Yes tom is hyper competent. History, piloting, medicine, commando tactics, engineering physics defying engines etc etc etc.Though Janeway is always right. Janeway’s moral in alliances is we shouldn’t compromise our principles and form an alliance with the kazon. Then in scorpion we should compromise and form an alliance with the borg. Its flipped and why? Cause Janeway says so pretty much. Borg are way worse then the kazon in terms of over all malevolence and negative impact on everyone.
Janine:
I know.
Michaeld, I don’t expect you to see the feminine/masculine archetypes the same way. Funny, that, eh? As long as I’m grouching about B5, I was infuriated that the relationship between Susan and Talia was nothing more than a teeny *blip*, then the Talia character was *poofed* away (I won’t say more as to spoilage). First, it’s a bunch of fear, fighting and dismissal, then it’s “ooh honey” in bed, then gone. That was absolute bullshit. There was a lot of intense sexism in B5 and it ran along cis/het lines almost exclusively.
I didn’t get kicked out of the Troy screening. I just whispered ἐρώμενος! with the person sitting next to me.
There’s a reason we netflix – so I can hit the pause button and complain right at the moment. (Or praise, whichever the case may be.)
Very true. How could I forget Tom Paris. The only way they ever managed to give any of the other characters any story was by removing these two characters.
Hey everyone I suspect it’s fake but over on the football rape thread we have someone claiming to be one of the people involved. Anyone want to actually yell at him before inevitable ban better do so quick
Caine
hehe. No you’re right I can think of a number of reasons (gender and upbringing most obviously). I’m sure I have more then a few views influenced by them for better and worse.
Yeah Talia and Susan was a weird mess, out of no where and gone. I joked about it with my GF who got me into the show when it came up.
Janine
How can they really call a stretched layer of skin an action figure? What actions can it make?
ckitching
Don’t forget Seven of Nine once did a whole episode practically by herself while everyone else slept in pods. Since she joined the rest of the crew doesn’t even need to be conscious for there to be an episode :P
Ugh every time Trek tries to do sexy or talk about sex it’s like anti-porn
@Ing
Which is about on par with their comedy record. Outrageous Okona being the more infamous.
From the Original script which Whoopi Goldberg changed to a bad android humanoid joke (You’re adroid and I’m anoid).
My job here places me under some obligations, like a vow of secrecy. I can’t repeat anything I hear or see. Now the obligation of the patron is to tell the truth, otherwise I’m being placed under a commitment to keep a secret about “nothing.” That’s not fair. It’s called wasted honor. You understand?
Find the joke in that someone…..
Oddly I found House of Quark legitly funny
Lol, destroyed Cassandra figure. ^_^
Threadrupt, but:
No statute of limitations or damage limitations on Malignant Shit-Stupidity lawsuits by children against their parents?
I know one of the things Greg Laden has mentioned on a couple occasions is that in every known culture, within that culture the men are generally more violent than the women, but that there are lots of cases where the women in culture A are more violent than the men in culture B.
@Ing
Hehe ok you’re right there are some funny episodes but they often seem to be the exceptions among some really terrible episodes. I’m very fond of magnificent Ferengi myself. Fascination or worse profit and lace on the other hand…
House of Quark is a good example of a rare good Ferengi episode.
a) It lets the Ferengi expand beyond their stereotype…daring to even let them have some nobility while still staying true to their established nature
b) It has good pacing and writing, with a Kafkaesque humor to it. Quark is dragged further and further into a situation outside his control with each new lie he tells trying to get out of it only causing him to sink further in.
c) It doesn’t rely on the Ferengi being too repulsive or annoying to be funny.
Magnificent Ferengi recreated a lot of that too. False Prophets and Profit and Lace were in the other extreme of utter shit.
Yes.
–
Once upon a time while attending high school, my brother had two friends, one male (J), one female (R). They were about equally close to him; but when, shortly after graduation, J and R got married, the unanimous expectation of the parental age group was that suddenly, Brother would no longer be friends with R. It was such an “of course, goes without saying” thing that the Parentals were shocked that J didn’t object to Brother continuing to be her friend…even when he wasn’t there to chaperone. It was as if, even though, somehow, Brother had managed to restrain himself from jumping R’s bones before she was married, he would presumably no longer be capable of exercising the same self-restraint afterwards.
–
:)
–
:) :) :)
–
Wallabies, kangaroos.
We had the occasional demented koala turn up in the street we used to live in. a) all koalas are fairly demented most of the time b) the 10 years of drought drove them further down from the hills into real suburbia. Down here on the other side of town, haven’t seen any koalas, but ….
a kangaroo hopping along the road beside our house – and I missed it. Brings back memories of the kids returning from USA trips bragging about how they fooled all the school kids they met that Yes, we do ride to school on kangaroos.
On a completely unrelated note: yesterday, I saw The Wicker Man for the first time. No, not the Nick Cage version.
It was awesome. A classic movie that didn’t let me down.
Koalas, AKA Dropping Bears.
I know which gum tree the Koala was last in by the scatter of 1 inch light green, eycalyptus scented droppings on the path. When a small plane flies by the koala thinks it’s a challenger and calls out to it. Visitors claim the noise is like pigs, but I disagree. It’s more like a basso profundo donkey with a sore throat.
Just for shits and giggles, here is olivercrangle, yet again, showing off what a terrible human he is.
After seeing Crangles’s performance on that thread, yeah, he’s now BANNED. We don’t need his kind ’round here. Hendricks, of course, is long banished. Also don’t need petty Libertarian assholes like her.
I can’t decide if olivercrangle is just trolling to get a rise out of people or if he honestly believes what he says. The controversy around Greta Christina’s new shoes is entirely manufactured by those who dislike her anyway, but there is this sick ongoing idea that you should get some kind of veto over someone’s finances because they received charity from you. Quality working shoes is hardly a frivolous expense, though, and like any clothing, the slightly more expensive items can last longer and fit better (sometimes significantly).
It’s a bitter irony of poverty. You’ll end up spending more money on clothing/footwear/etc. when you can only afford the cheapest items, simply because the cheap ones don’t last. So, you get the cheap Walmart shirt for $20 that develops holes in it after 6 months because you can’t afford the $40 shirt that would easily last several years.
Greta’s being punished for being an Outspoken Woman, what else is there? You’re only allowed to be an Outspoken Woman if you are filthy rich.
Of all the ridiculous, non-skeptical arguments the pitters have made, this one is darned near the most incomprehensible to me. She bought shoes fer crissakes. There’s no way to know if the money for them was from donations or her own…and it doesn’t matter. If I donate money to someone, it becomes theirs. They have the only say in its use.
Not to mention after Wooly Bumblebee withdrew her support, I question if any of them even donated.
Hey, I wonder if the pitters would stalk all of you who have blogs if they were aware. I know many Pharyngulites have blogs (some updated more than others).
Tony
Oh, geez, I’m sure those wastes of space would troll anyone if they thought it was “helping” their “cause”. (And yes, I haz a blog. I think you can get to it by clicking on my name.)
Ahhh, crap. tag-fail. Can someone on the inside please close my “bold” tag in #245?
Thank you!
It is now a double banning for Oliver.
I can see the beginnings of a new internet sport, synchronized banhammering.
Tony:
So far they’ve avoided my blog… but then again, so do people who claim to be my friends, so who’s counting? You don’t read my blog Tony… do you? DO YOU?!?! *Telepathic fire in your general direction*
:) Some idiot DID make a YouTube video with my name in the title, because I said something nice to Jen McCreight when she made her “taking a break from blogging” blog entry.
The thread at Daylight Atheism where Oliver also got himself banned.
Just remember, he gets banned because people do not like what he says but cannot refute him.
Janine:
Never for their disgusting behavior, but always for “not agreeing” or “opposing the dogma” or whatever other nonsense they can think up.
and I’m having a nice relaxing evening with GITS, my cuddly cat at my side and the latest thunderf00t video I’m responding to….. ok some parts are more relaxing then others, why am I such a masochist.
michaeld,
You’re some sort of hero… how do you watch that crap?
Wait, I thought milk CAME FROM…
…oh.
^.^
@Improbable Joe
Surrounded by less aggravating stimuli I can distract my self with.
Only the BLUE milk, Azkyroth… hahaha!
ThunderingFool has a new video?
Who is he making up stories about this time around?
Wow, Janine. The way he repeated that “bitch” line over and over, really makes it clear what kind of person he is. The only reason to repeat something like that repeatedly is if you want to say it, but want to appear as if you’re not saying it so you can still look reasonable. Very trollish behaviour.
Ckitching, that is not even the worst behavior he has shown off online. That would be when he was moaning about his child support payments.
(Sorry, I really do not feel like digging that up.)
@janine
I’m about to call it a night and I’ve only worked 9min out of 13min through the video but so far Rebecca, Amy and Monica Harmsen the president of an SSA branch. I’ll finish it up in the morning and post a link in thunderdome when it’s done for anyone who’s interested in reading it. Probably intellectual masochists only there isn’t anything really new so far, PZ can rest safe knowing he’s not missing anything important.
michaeld
I’d think that almost everything would qualify as “less aggravating stimuli”…
I am grateful that I stopped using “bitch” in my ever changing moniker when I did. I was getting tired of the random trolls using as an excuse to use it on this blog. I can see the slymepitters and people like olivercrandle using it as just an other reason to continue their bullshit.
@ Improbable Joe
They are, Syl (aka Sylvie) especially. This time of night is when she’s most awake and sociable so I have this purring, rubbing, cuddly 16 year old cat to keep my spirits up ^.^
michaeld
I’ve got 4 cats, and this is the one time of day that they all leave me alone.
Improbably Joe
aww Syl is all over me right as I want to go to bed. I end up having to go to bed with her big eyes staring at me all upset that I’m leaving her and even then she sometimes tries to get me out of bed again.
goodnight
and y
michaeld my cats are the opposite, they all want me to go to bed with them, they are desperate for me to get into bed so they can curl up with me. Sometimes I wake up and there’s me and my wife and the dog and 3-4 cats in the bed, all of us tucked in tight.
Improbable Joe
Hehe awww. ^.^
Well, I can’t add much to the talk of TV shows and movies since I haven’t watched what you guys are talking about. I can say though I’m totally the kind to stop a movie and start talking about it. I frequently yell at the TV when shit just doesn’t make any sense. Which as lead to me not watching things with other people since it tends to bother them.
—–
OMFG. Yes. I hate when stories don’t follow their own laws. Makes me all rant-y. It can and has ruined otherwise fine books. Or just make a bad book absolutely terrible.
Of course that is a false claim.
Canada goose? Sky vermin I say! ;P
Trying to keep up working backwards kind of and randomly:
Caine: Oh, no Vasco! Poor ratty. =( I hope he’s okay.
Tony: Congrats on the new job!! And I’m so sorry about M. That really sucks. =( *more hugs* if you want them.
————
Ohhhh, pet update: Told Step-dad hell fucking no to getting their cat pregnant. Seriously, neither are fixed so they are not allowed in same house. Told him that it isn’t going to make the cat all mother-y and cuddle-y. He of course spouts off about how it’s worked before and I don’t know nothing blah blah blah. So I told him I wouldn’t help him take care of or find home for the kittens. Little One would not get a kitten and HE’d be the one to break her heart for being an inconsiderate jackass because we can’t afford it. It’s just so mean. Then I really reality checked him and told him I wouldn’t help transport him or his cat(s) when we move soon and that he can kiss my ass, stupid inconsiderate jerkface. There are too many cats killed every year because stupid asses like him not giving a shit. Pisses me the fuck off.
Yeah, that was a productive family meeting. UGH. I want to leave him behind but he’s the only physically able bodies income earning person who can take care of mom all the time, while I look for work.
I think I’ll take the suggestion and get my teeth fixed with your donations and hope once that’s taken care of I can resolve some family shit before moving.
Also, I’m torn because Roomie is also being a jackass lately so I have plenty of reasons to want to move (and want to so badly) yet the situation just ain’t working out to move.
Insofar as the comment reports a person’s impression there is no evidence here that it is a “false claim.” They are perfectly likely to have that impression. What you presumably mean to say is “it may seem that way, but it’s not the case.” Or, I suppose, if you prefer, “that impression is erroneous.”
Oh good; I had a comment composed nagging you about it and was debating whether to post it.
(This month I should be able to contribute, too. x.x)
Joe
Oh, I am so fucking jealous of that cuddle-puddle you described.
Am I the only one here that still just wants their mum when they feel ill? I’m 31. I should be, like, all grown up and self-sufficient, and shit. But if I’m feeling less than 100%, I want Mum. When I get anxious and panicky, I want to cling to Mum. What is it about being less than well that reverts me back to a cub?
Come to think of it, I’ve been feeling a bit anxious and clingy and out of sorts today. And I don’t know why — I have no reason to be feeling this way, all is well, life is good, what the fuck is wrong with me?
Wrong.
It is said: “The things I know about geese:”
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology
The FFRF has filed suit in federal district court challenging the constitutionality of IRC 107 that allows ONLY “ministers” unlimited income tax free income as long as it is spent on housing costs.
In conjunction therewith, I have recently initiated a White House sponsored petition asking Obama to ask Congress to repeal IRC 107; so we won’t have to wait years and years for the Supreme Court to rule in the FFRF suit.
Here’s a link to the petition and it has a January 24, 2013 deadline to get the 25,000 signatures needed to obligate Obama to address the matter:
http://wh.gov/QQOh
The explicit wording was “seems.” I don’t see how epistemology is relevant.
WMDKitty
No. As much as they irk me and as unresponsive as they actually turn out to be, I’m glad to live close to my parents so that I can call them when I’m having a suicidal crisis or go home for a few days when I feel shitty. When I have panic attacks at night, I literally bolt out of bed to run up the stairs to my parent’s bedroom, even though I haven’t lived in that house in years.
When I went to the hospital recently, I kept thinking “how do people without family or close friends nearby deal”. I mean, I don’t have any close meatspace friends that live within 700 miles; who would come and drive me home when I’m all drugged out and make sure I have Gatorade and stuff?
Compare
“Things I know about O₂:
It seems to contain argon.”
Epistemology is relevant because a person cannot “know” something that is not true.
But if you like your wording, feel free to substitute it in your head; it’s not terribly important to me.
@103,
Dog have mercy, I agree with Ing! Not only was the character ludicrous, the depicted “medical” stories were outright laughable every single time.
My pick is Star Maidens.
It led to interesting scenes among the pupils in my 6th grade class, the series featured ladies with paralysing pistols you see, and strictly adhering to the rules, quite a few of us ended up being late for class, because we got “paralysed” by mates on the way to school, roleplaying what we saw on TV. Good times.
If any of the monitors are around, there’s some excrement from the angry atheist known as Reap fouling the Americans have an amazing capacity for self-delusion thread.
WMDKitty:
Sometimes it is a pure nightmare, like when most of them decide to take up one side of the bed, and you really need to pee and you don’t want to disturb the kids… especially when they are likely to start fighting the moment that they all wake up. Or when one of them (ELLIE!) follows you around the house shouting at you in Cat-Speak to get in bed so you can cuddle with her already, starting at 3 in the afternoon.
Not a monitor but I already sent an e-mail.
Joe
Like this?
WMDKitty
Hah! That’s funny and cute, but the reality is that you as a human get into bed, and my cats decide that where they need to be is “where you are plus a half-inch” and then they press against you until you move…. and then they need ANOTHER half inch. And then one or two more cats. Eventually you get to sleep, and then a couple of hours later you shift, a cat jumps off the bed, and then the dog DIVES ACROSS EVERYONE TO CHASE THE CAT!
… at least none of these asshole furry kids is going to ask for a car.
Remember the “your best friend’s wife” trope?
Or the idea that a guy only is friends with a woman because she wouldn’t let him be her lover?
Yeah, kill that stuff with fire.
+++
And I doubt that any of the people complaining about how Greta used her money actually contibuted to it in the first place.
Basically a soap-opera, but I did like The Doctor.
(Oddly-enough, later I came to like the character of Seven of Nine.
(No, not the costume :) — though you have to admire the aplomb with which the actor wore it)
Cicely @ 203:
Here is the link to the novel.
Sensation http://www.amazon.com/Sensation-Spectacular-Fiction-Nick-Mamatas/dp/1604863544/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357544583&sr=1-1&keywords=sensation
A slim little gem, reminds me of Charles Stross in a playful mood.
— — — — — — —
The nadir of Star Trek; Voyager was when they had to duck giant viral particles.
— — — — — — —
My neutered tom is so possessive, he cannot tolerate me closing the door on him when I get up to pee..
— — — — — — —
“The Wicker Man”
A very odd film… not bad.
Another oddity: “The Hunger”. Flaw: (spoiler) the part at the end when the ex-lovers suddenly get back their energy, without explanation.
PS Ing, are you gonna tell me Species 8472 didn’t tickle your fancy? :)
Good morning!
Anyone else know the superstition about putting underwear on inside-out? I think it has something to do with coming into money, but I can’t remember… I’m wondering if I should take it as a good sign that I spent all of yesterday like that.
+++
Looks like Babylon 5 will be a go.
I do recommend Battlestar Galactica, if only for the intro mini-series and the first couple of seasons, because yes, it does get bogged down in a whole lot of strange strangeness.
+++
Expecting news very soon.
rq: https://www.google.com/search?q=the+superstition+about+putting+underwear+on+inside-out
Ah, I see the beliefs are consistent, as usual. Thanks.
rq, I showed you how to fish as well as giving you a fish. ;)
Sgbm:
An interesting statement. I’m not saying it’s wrong. It is in one aspect right. The problem is that it’s not very useful except in a rather specialised setting.
You’re aware the word know is not unambiguous, right?
In the strict sense you use here, a single person can not know much at all. Personally I favour Gilbert Ryle: (it’s been a long time since I last read it, so this is not verbatim): All we can know is that we’re beings, made of flesh.
Outside that, what is known is always a negotiated temporary consensus. With science we have attained a powerful tool to both for negotiating consensus and bringing consensus as close to objective reality as possible. As knowledge is a temporary consens, it’s perfectly possible for knowledge to be faulty. And since a unit of one offers little in they way of correction, it’s very common for a single person’s knowledge to be faulty. Faulty knowledge is still knowledge in a lot of senses of the word.
Further, “seem” is always, unambiguously about appearance. All jugdements about appearance have a subjective element. To use the strictest sense of “know” on a statement of appearance is therefore an error of category.
What’s very correct though is that my comment was a bit too flippant. I know there are animal rights activists that genuinely care about all animals, not just the cute ones. I’ve never seen them protest Canada Goose specifically, but this is more about my perceptions than their activities. Or they have just other fish to fry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_justification
(More of a topic for Thunderdome, I reckon)
So, back to college.
No, new term hasn’t started here yet (different schedules, very annoying if you do some study abroad. You might lose a full year at home for effectively spending 3 months in a foreign country) and I’m a little bit fucked because I didn’t pick up anything since I left my bag in teh corner the Friday before christmas. I had planned to catch up last week, but somehow that didn’t work out.
JAL
Since we were already discussing that in relation to Greta’s new shoes (for the narrative imperative to be pleased they should be red.): That money is yours and you are the only person who can know how to spend it best. So, if you say that getting your teeth fixed is the one important thing right now: Go for it!
+++
Ahhh, the woo that is salad.
On Mondays and Thursdays I do the shopping before college and usually pick up a sandwich for me for lunch. I usually pick either chicken and feta or turkey and egg because they’re relatively light meals. Today they were out so I went for a salad bowl. Now, while still being lighter than the cheese and ham sandwich, this salad has about 100 calories more than my usual sandwich and an abominable 20g of pure, saturated fat.
Still, when I eat my sandwich I get The Looks™. Guess when I eat the salad I’ll get the approving “finally the fattie got it” nod…
And fuck administrations that make me jump through 7 administrative hoops to sign up for an exam when I’m still struggeling with any fucking hoop I encounter and want to hide under my blanket snuggeling a giant Hippo.
You’re not being helpfull!
*comes back from a walk across the campus*
So, they currently disabled the hoops.
“You can do that from home”
Yeah, thank you, in case you didn’t notice, I’m not at home right now.
Sorry for the ranting, but I really needed to get that off my chest.
Sorry! I didn’t intend to trample on the borders of the lounge. My piece in retrospect ended up a bit more defensive than I had planned when I started to read it. It was more a impulse of “oooh! This is interesting” than “sgbm is wrong” I started writing. I’m sorry it came out perhaps a bit more towards the latter than I had intended.
I see I’m accused of making up stories about Paden. Huh. News to me.
Gnumann,
John’s point might be more that overt, blatant, shameless discussion of philosophy is traditionally the purview of TZT/Thunderdome. ;)
I am vaguely interested in whether you consider yourself an anti-foundationalist, but it is the last paragraph of your 296 I was really looking for; I haven’t time to discuss the heavy stuff, though I’ll read it.
Caine
Like they stole the return on his keyboard back in 1986 and never gave it back?
Link? I need something amusing…
Giliell, it’s right here.
I’m honestly confused. He sez:
The most I’ve said about that asshole is for people to ignore him when he’s trolling here as ‘dpitman’, because alerts will be sent and he’ll be re-banned. I have no idea of what he’s on about.
Caine
I guess he owes you several Es. Or did they nick that key alongside the Return?
So, the professor hasn’t put up the files for today yet. Let’s see if he’s here at all…
Giliell:
Fuck if I know. He’s not exactly the sharpest crayon.
If he’s a crayon then he’s the one that melted behind the radiator…
Giant squid!!!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-07/giant-squid-filmed-in-pacific-depths/4455716
John Morales
Yes, I saw what you did there.
But sometimes when I want to talk to someone and maybe start a conversation, I forgo the ‘just google it’ way, and see if there’s any interaction possible instead, to see other people’s points of view. Perhaps I phrased it wrong for the morning. But if I wanted to google things all the time, which is what I usually do, I wouldn’t bother trying to socialize here.
But thanks anyway. :)
Thanks for the welcomes back.
====
Useless action figures? How about a compacted Leland Turbo from Cars 2?
====
Seher geehrter Herr Ogvorbis, Dampf- und Feuerkönig, last Saturday we rode this cute little steam train. I thought you’d like to know.
Shoes for Women! Step in time!
https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2012/11/27/douche-defends-douching/comment-page-2/#comment-530252
SQB:
Looks at photo.
Is that the O&K (Orenstine & Kopel (?)) from back around 1910 or 1911?
Googles it.
Damn. I really need a life. From Wiki: “Aagje (1911): The first train bought, ‘Aagje’ an Orenstein & Koppel, was, at that time, still in operation at the IJsseloord Brickworks in Arnhem. Aagje started her ‘fairy duty’ in 1969.”
I sort of got the year right and murdered the manufacturer’s name.
I’m slipping.
Lack of sleep.
They have three operational steam locomotives, along with one diesel. One steam locomotive has been retired in front of one of the two stations, for the children to play on. That is “Neefje” (“little cousin”, after Kees Neve, who transformed it from a fireless steam locomotive into a regular one).
The steam locomotives are “Aagje” (pictured), “Moortje” (“little Moor”), another Orenstein & Koppel, named for the Moors since it is black(!)*, and “Trijntje” (which is a women’s name that sounds like ‘treintje’, which in turn means ‘little train’), built in 1991 by Alan Keef (you’ll probably know who that is).
*”Moortje” is still a common name for black cats over here.
@13.SQB 6 January 2013 at 2:34 pm (UTC -6)
Ahem, it actually used to be even more explicit than that. Anyone else recall the other old (still occasionally used term for a rooster .. cock?
@178. Caine, Fleur du mal +
6 January 2013 at 6:04 pm (UTC -6)
Funny you should say that.
Rot13’ed for SPOILERS – BE WARNED
Pbafvqrevat gung Zvaonev naq uhznaf ghea bhg gb or “fcvevghnyyl” vqragvpny qbja gb gurve fbhyrf.
http://www.rot13.com/index.php
D’oh! Make that :
(still occasionally used?)
In farms? Outside of Aesop’s fables? Maybe?
Cannot believe I’m the first to point that out here!
@309. Lofty : You just beat me to it with posting that one.
SQB:
What scares me is that I knew the approximate age and even got the manufacturer right (well, except for the spelling). Damn, I need a life.
I trusted you would know.
Yup. Railroading is one of the very few things I’m actually useful for.
Luckily, I can use it professionally.
I checked out the online reviews of Tarantino’s “Django Unchained” and found a gem I must share with you:
.
“I really liked Django Unchained, or as I like to call it:
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence right through the eyeball and then the bullet continued through about 7 other torsos, shot out from a guy’s belly button bringing a plume of intestines with it, ricocheted off someone’s jugular vein, then snapped the cord holding up a chandelier causing said chandelier to plummet like a lead balloon, crushing the skulls of various evil varmints and polecats and then plunging into an occupied outhouse where the dynamite was also stored, causing the outhouse to explode in a crimson rain of blood, guts and offal.”
Looks like we have a house*.
*Contingent on the signing of the contract, of course, but all parties (ourselves, the seller, the bank) involved have confirmed (as of today) that this will occur within the week.
rq:
AWESOME!
::the shoop is doing a happy dance for you::
Birger:
I think that probably removes any need I had to see it. I really can’t abide that much silliness.
rq:
Wonderful.
Thanks, Tony
This means we will be able to host travellers and guests. *hint* ;) Champagne?
By the way, as a bartender, can you recommend any good champagne cocktails?
the depicted “medical” stories were outright laughable every single time.
My personal “favorite” of the ones I’ve seen was a case where this youngish woman was having GI bleeding. One of the characters said, “It’s either a coagulopathy or a tumor.” So many problems with that statement…even for a television show it’s just…bad.
I suppose the problem is that real life is either less dramatic or completely depressing.Patients who have multiple failing organs are probably going to die of it, except in a few, rare circumstances. And even then, there’s not that much drama. Case in point, with changes to protect the HIPAA protected: Patient comes in with a seizure and a platelet count of practically nothing, obviously about to die if nothing is done. ER doctor looks at him and says, “This could be TTP. Call hematology.” The hematologist looks at the patient and the smear and says, “Yep. TTP. Start plasmapheresis.” The patient gets better. A dying person eventually walks out of the hospital in reasonably good health…great, but where’s the drama?
Caine
Agreed.
I just don’t like Quentin Tarantino movies. It may just be the gratuitous violence, but I just don’t like them. After all the amazingly rave reviews I heard from friends about Kill Bill, I was terribly disappointed in the movie, when I finally did see it.
Champagne?
Ogvorbis
Champagne?
Dianne:
Not there. Which is fine with me, ’cause when you actually need a doctor, you aren’t looking for drama.
Most medicine is dealing with horses, whereas medical dramas deal with zebras.
dianne
Champagne?
Can’t stand the stuff. Scotch?
@Stevor
OO rot13 interesting. Well I’ll point out: Rkprcg jryy lbh xabj gung gur thl jvgu gur vqragvpny fbhy unq na vqragvpny fbhy pnhfr gurl jrer gur fnzr crefba. Xvaq bs n jubbcf grzcbeny cnenqbk guvat :C Abg fher vs nalbar ryfr unq gur fnzr fbhyf.
Ogvorbis
Bottles and bottles of the stuff. Apparently we ordered too much for our wedding, now several years past. Here, have a bottle.
Not there. Which is fine with me, ’cause when you actually need a doctor, you aren’t looking for drama.
I prefer that my doctor yawns when she sees me coming. And that I’m just a number to her. Specifically, a very high number as in the 12,437th person that she’s dealt with having condition X. Nothing quite so reassuring as a bored, highly experienced practitioner.
Of Scotch? Where is this house?
rq: Sorry. Poor alcohol tolerance, possibly mutant alcohol dehydrogenase. You can have the champagne, I’ll play designated driver. Er…actually, I don’t have a driver’s license either. I’ll be the person sober enough to hail a cab without falling into the street.
Dianne:
Seconded. When I landed in the ER with acute pancreatitis, after determining that’s what it was, my doc looked at me and said “the good news is you aren’t going to die. The great news is that you get 3 to 5 days on morphine.”
When I was in the ER having what I thought was a heart attack, the doctor came in at one point and said, “Congratulations. You’ve confused all of us. You have none of the heart attack markers in your blood, but the monitor tape keeps showing a wave that is classic for a heart attack.” It disappeared and we still have no idea what actually happened.
It disappeared and we still have no idea what actually happened.
Acute angina without damage to the cardiac muscle? A bad lead on the EKG? Heck if I know either, but glad it went away.
Ogvorbis
Well, it’s not yet in the house, see, it’s sitting in our apartment, in that cupboard over there, on the shelf. It will be in the house in a month or two.
dianne
Ah, sorry… Fruit juice, then, or sparkling water*?
*Fresh from the tap
If you are going to mix champagne with anything, I don’t think you can beat adding a little fruit puree to a glass and topping up with champagne. The classic is white peaches, but I have had a version made with raspberry puree that was totally delicious.
Ah. That would explain why they changed the EKG leads four times in less than 90 minutes.
rq:
Kir Royale- champagne with a floater of chambord (raspberry liquor)
Poinsetta- champagne with a floater of cranberry
Champagne cocktail- champagne and orange juice pineapple juice cranberry juice and peach schnapps
rq:
The ultimate Champagne Cocktail.
Pour the champagne in a glass. Give it to someone. Pour some Scotch in a glass. Drink it. Heaven.
Yeah, I know I’m not helping, but being uselessly amusing? that I can do.
How about a plain old Mimosa? (Orange juice & champagne.)
Nope, Matt Penfold, that’s a mimosa!
Ogvorbis
You do a fine job. A fine job. ;) Have another bottle. Somebody’s got to drink the stuff.
Tony
I see nobody has bothered being any more creative with champagne – champagne+(sweet)fruit of some kind seems to be the rule. Although I don’t know how else it could be done.
Matt:
No, a BF is mostly orange juice, with just a taste of champagne.
rq:
Also, BELLINI- champagne+peach schnapps+peach puree
I just Googled.
It seems the difference between a Mimosa and a Buck’s Fizz is that the former is mixed 1 part fizz to 1 part juice, whereas the latter is one part fizz to two juice.
I think the Mimosa sounds the better!
No idea if it an actual drink or not, but how about 1 part champagne, 1 part peach schnapps, and one part orange juice? Sort of a fizzy fuzzy navel?
So no sour champagne drinks (unless the fruit is sour itself)?
jm
I liked them better at first when they where unknowable alien and killing Harry
HA-HA!
Martin Ssempa is tweeting pleas to Rick Warren to show support for Scott Lively.
Yes, I do think that Scott Lively is guilty of crimes against humanity.
Fruit juice, then, or sparkling water*?
Both, please. I’ve always had a fondness for Apfelsaftschorle.
dianne
Here you go!
Champagne + Elderflower cordial + vodka = Twinkle.*
Bloody lovely.
Louis
* I thought this was a quaint euphemism for a ladygarden…until I discovered Smirnoff.
Well I’m at work right now, so perhaps I will play around with some new champagne cocktails…
Champagne+Creme de Menthe (either light or dark)–thumbs down.
****
Big Beady Eyes of Deliciousness!
Caine, you might like this one:
Champagne + Solerno (blood orange liquor) + Orange Juice= 2 thumbs up!
Oggie:
Scotch sucks!
::runs away fast::
Louis
Ooooh, that does sound bloody lovely. And hard-hitting, in a subtle, oh-look-fruit-juice sort of way.
Also, I’ve never heard of elderflower cordial (which is why the above sounds lovely – unheard of! exotic! etc.!).
Needs something, though. Ah, here we are:
Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star*!
*Can be replaced by a magical star.
Some do.
On the other hand, you are not supposed to drink it with a straw.
Tony:
Sounds delish!
Tony
Is it actually called Big Beady Eyes of Deliciousness? Because if it is, it is my new favourite drink. For the name.
I’m curious to know what else you come up with. :)
Champagne + ginger ale?
Champagne + Jamaica rum + slice of pineapple?
(This is me randomly searching the ‘drinks’ file in my head.)
Um, Oggie:
I meant that Scotch is a blight unto humanity. It is a pox worse than a Zombie Plague.
Scotch poisons everything. Hey, that reminds me of something else that poisons everything. What is it? It’s on the tip of my tongue…
rq,
Congrats on the house!
Yes! Please do!
–
Joe—When The Husband and I married, we each had a cat. His cat, unlike mine, was one of the “”where you are plus a half-inch” and then they press against you until you move” types, so I’d often suddenly wake up to find that she had half-inched me right up on the edge of the bed, and gravity was starting to take notice. The Husband thought it was no end funny that I could be pushed out of bed by a 12 pound cat.
:)
–
birgerjohannson, I have bookmarked that for future acquisition. “Charles Stross in a playful mood” sounds very agreeable.
–
Fishing for underwear???
–
*high five* for rq!
–
Like…selling your soul to Them?
1) Watch out for the exact wording on any contract.
2) Always check the fine print. If you don’t see any fine print, check again…it’s there. Somewhere.
3) Horses cheat. Always.
–
My sister has a bottle of something called Talisker (or something very much like that, anyway). Is this a good thing to have? I ask, because she’s offering to bring it with her when she visits.
–
Peas. And Horses.
Horses poison everything…with peas.
–
Argh I’m so behind – this thread is getting away from me as fast as the last one did.
But hugs to Tony. I remember, I think, the first time you mentioned M here – I’m glad if it’s getting any easier to bear, and I hope that the good memories will gradually come more and more to outweigh everything else {{hugs}}
Congrats to rq re the whole house thing!
btw Tony, as a professional expert in the field, how can you hate whisky? (I mean proper whisky, obviously, unblended and made in proper bits of Scotland and drunk properly neat :-) ). Though those champagne cocktails do sound delicious … and dangerous; when something tastes that good, how do you stop drinking too much of it?
opposablethumbs:
Thanks for the hugs. Yes, it is easier for me with distance from his death. I got a little teary eyed earlier-out of nowhere, I might add-but other than that, I’ve been trying to focus on the good memories we shared.
__
As for scotch, I just don’t like it. I don’t like single malt or blended and I don’t like any sort of bourbons. I’m a rum or vodka guy. I also love a good Shiraz or Syrah. Sometimes I’m in the mood for a good Pinot Noir or Cabernet. I dislike Merlot and most white wines.
cicely:
Nope. I wasn’t quite thinking of horses or peas. Something else…more inorganic and conceptual.
John Morales and everyone else whose first and usually only response to a question is “Google it”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_to_noise_ratio
Heh. Something I learned today. According to Noelplum99 (Jim), my defining feature is my stupidity.
I am so relieved that he revealed this truth about me.
Religions base on Horse worship?
–
Those are two of my favourite eats :( Am I poisoning myself?
Janine
Ah, that explains all your fantastic music video postage here. :P
cicely, Beatrice, opposablethumbs, everyone else –
Champagne? Or other drink of choice? (Currently we are only lacking rum and tequila. We have gin; that error has been corrected.)
Gnumann+
cicely would say you’re ridding the world of All that is Evil, so good on you! ;)
doesnotcomputedoesnotcomputedoesnotcomputedoesnotcompute aaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!1!11!!!111!!! ::blows fuses, emits sparks and acrid smoke::
I love good rum, though. One of my siblings lives in the Caribbean and brings some most visits – FSM but it’s delicious! So smooth …. ::checks calendar, no sibling visits scheduled. Sulks:: But I’m afraid my life has been devoid of good vodka, so I’ve probably never formed a properly informed opinion as I’ve only ever encountered the kind of stuff that’s fit for nothing but disguising.
Janine:
I got called a moron by Reap Paden today, along with accusations of telling stories about him. Must be one of those Mondays.
Champagne? – oh, thank you rq, most kind! Don’t mind if I do …
right, off to assist the cook for a bit, I think
Caine, I saw that. But I do not think it was about you. It was about cain.
Reap must really hate that old television show.
Janine:
And which thread can we find his knowledge of your character?
Janine:
A distinct possibility. He is an idiot.
Here you go, Tony.
Watch how Jim takes a thread about Greta defending herself against charges of e-begging and turns it to being all about him fighting sexism and ending as a martyr.
I really do not like him.
Yes.
I’m afraid that it’s always fatal. No exceptions. You haven’t got more than, oh, 70 to 100 years left. Max.
–
rq, I don’t like champagne, but if you have vodka and orange juice…..
:)
–
“Taking one for the team.”
“Falling on that grenade.”
“The needs of the many….”
:)
–
I don’t know if it counts as one of those Mondays, but my shoes fell apart on my way out this morning. Admittedly, it was an old pair, but I didn’t expect the soles to suddenly crumble.
Bought a pair of ankle boots during lunch break.
Then I got a call from one of the banks I applied to for training. Since I already am in training, I don’t know whether it’s possible to transfer (complicated rules), and I wasn’t even chosen yet just one of the candidates who passed the first circle.
Got annoyed because working in a bank would be much better for my resume, and if they decided to take me on later it would be much better than staying where I am now (government, IT).
Of course, now I am doubting myself (as usually) and worrying that I have made wrong choices.
rq,
I’ll take some Scotch, thanks
I’m afraid that it’s always fatal. No exceptions. You haven’t got more than, oh, 70 to 100 years left. Max.
Only because people are stupid. We could have much better life extension technology than we do if we had any interest in developing it.
rq:
if you get some vodka, triple sec, sweet n sour, and chambord, you can add the rum, gin and tequila to that (1/2 ounce of each except the chambord), pour over ice, drizzle the chambord, squeeze a lemon and you have a Grateful Dead (basically a Raspberry Long Island Tea).
or substitute Cranberry Juice for coke in a Long Island Tea and you get a Long Beach Tea.
But, dianne, Gnumann+ has apparently already eaten The Meat. And is doomed.
Doooooooomed!!!
–
ogvorbis
A drinker after my own heart.
cicely
They exist.
Beatrice:
In honor of our discussion of all things that are masculine or feminine, I’m sorry to tell you, no scotch for you :)
Tony,
I’ll give up the scotch (which is rq’s not yours, btw) only if you make me a kir royale.
I know.
*shudder*
Filthy preverts.
–
Who mourns for noelplum99?
cicely
A screwdriver for you.
Beatrice
What will it be, then? The kir, or the scotch? Damn banks always late. :/
Anyone else for drinks?
Tony
I am totally bookmarking that mixture. And adding champagne, to dilute. ;) Once we have tequila and rum in the house, that is.
Good evening
Yeah home fucking boo-hoo home.
To be honest, my mum doesn’t look good. Her belly seems to get bigger and bigger instead of slimmer. 9 months pregnant with twins I’d say for the size. They started some infusion therapy to help out the liver today but I still don’t know anything concrete about this whole shit.
+++
Congratulations to the house, rq
I think your tales inspired my dream last night in which we bought a hous in which somebody had built the toilets on the stairs. And I mean really on the stairs so you’d have to walk around the bowl.
And I was like Nooooooooooo, we can’t buy that house but still somehow everything happened.
rq:
lately, I’ve been loving a little fizz in my drinks. I found I like a little carbonated water added to any fruity rum drink (Mai Tai, Hurricane, Planter’s Punch, Bahama Mama, Rum Punch). Or substitute some sparkling juice in place of the regular juices.
One recipe:
Rum Punch (single drink):
2 ounces of rum (I like it stiff)
1/2 ounce of pineapple juice
1/2 ounce of cranberry juice
1/2 ounce of orange juice
3/4 ounce of sparkling grape or apple juice
Serve over ice. Garnish with whatever the heck you want (typically the same types of fruits you find in the drink)
rq,
Make it scotch. Merci
rq:
we can add some
Galliano
to cicely’s screwdriver, to make a Harvey Wallbanger.
Tony
I’m signing up for some bartending courses from you. This could be fun!
And yeah, sometimes a touch of *sparkle* is all that’s needed to make an ordinary drink totally fabulous. ;)
And I finally know what Galliano is. That looks like an interesting touch for many a drink!
Dalillama:
That was Opposable Thumbs, not me. Easy to tell the difference: OT’s comment made sense.
It looks like I’ll pass on the Galliano. I don’t care at all for anise.
Or annis, either.
:)
–
ogvorbis
So it was, my apologies to you both. I still like your champagne cocktail recipe, though.
Oggie:
What’s the significance of all those symbols after your nym?
Tony
I’m guessing at least one of those symbol strings means broken.
Belatedly,
Giliell
*hugs* for the mother situation. :( This can’t be easy, at all. Drink?
Tony:
Broken and feeling useless googletranslated into Lao.
Eh, and I was close on the language guess, too.
Ogvorbis,
Going from Lao to English, google translate gives me “Nothing broken, prices, and value” :D
Beatrice:
Yeah. I know. That’s why I went back to English. Don’t want to misrepresent.
Also, *hugs* for Giliell and Ogvorbis
Oggie,
You are not broken and useless. NORTY OGGIE. Now come over here and sit on my knee whilst I tell you a story and make you drink really rather unfortunate cocktails.
In other news, I understand that the latest scandal is someone bought some shoes and some other people have lost their shit about it.
I bought some shoes once.
Louis
Louise,
Unless you buy women’s shoes, you’re fine. You see, women’s shoes are by definition frivolous and an indulgence.
Well, Mr. bought a pair of red high-heeled pumps once.
What’s the suggested punishment?
++
Damn, the people under us just complained about the noise of the stepper. I guess I need to find something to put it onto. But it’s amazing that Mr. and Mrs shout all night (now with the kids) feel ok to complain about noise…
Giliell,
You two can get a joint session in the spanking parlour, if Patricia approves?
——
Steppers aren’t loud. I think.
Beatrice
And you called him Louise. *tsk tsk*
Ogvorbis
I definitely liked ‘nothing broken, prices and value’ much better. *hugs*
Giliell
Make him wear them 24/7, especially to professional business meetings?
+++
*hugs* all around. And good night. *more drinks*
[exeunt]
Well, Mr. bought a pair of red high-heeled pumps once.
What’s the suggested punishment?
He has to wear them. At least once. You taking pictures is optional.
The couple above us occasionally has some kids over. And possibly dogs. The noise. I am tempted to donate them a carpet or three. I am almost sure they don’t have them. Sometimes, in the middle of the night, it sounds like someone in high heels is walking across the room, over and over again. And then they drag some heavy furniture around.
Sorry Louis and anyone who might think I was making a bad joke by changing Louis’ name into a feminine version while talking about him buying women’s shoes. I wasn’t. It was an accident.
Sorry.
Thanks for mentioning that, rq.
I didn’t do it on purpose.
Sgbm:
I certainly haven’t, since I’m not generally in the habit of defining myself on the landscape of philosophical schools.
I’m vaguely interested in whether I ought to. From a quick read at Wikipedia I see that I definitely ought to give Foucault a read.
I’m definitely anti-essentialist in most respects when it comes to human concepts and human interactions. At the same time I am in no way denying the effects of underlying reality on either society, social interactions or ethics.
As is waxing.
–
Hello, everyone. I’m back, at least temporarily (I’m forced to use the library computer these days).
That’s assuming anyone here remembers me. I’ve been dealing with a condition known as sciatica, a nerve problem in my back that caused my right leg to go haywire for a few months. I’ve reached the point where I can walk a few blocks without too much pain or difficulty.
But my bank account is dry, my credit card no good, and my home internet is gone for the time being.
Damn, but I’ve missed everybody. And it’s good to be back on the net, even if I have nothing terribly constructive to do or say.
Cheers to the horde and lurkers. I won’t stay away so long again.
He did. he pulled off a credible Nana Mouskuri one carnival.
Louise? I’m flattered.
I was buying women’s shoes. You have no idea how hard they are to get in a size 13. And they were definitely frivolous…
…but enough about my personal life.
Louis
feralboy12:
Of course we remember you. Welcome back.
I’m sorry to hear about the sciatica. Is this a condition you’re going to have indefinitely, or can anything be done to eliminate it?
As for internet, I’m right there with you. I’m currently using my laptop at my job (I bartend, and it is slooooow in the AM) because my home internet is cut off.
(If you’re bored and want a _fun_ thread to read, check out Why do you despise Feminism?)
Azkyroth @373:
Once in a while I think “let me google that for you,” do so, and report back if I find anything useful. It means I get a few minutes poking around and maybe learning something interesting, and the stressed person who was wondering about something gets an answer. It’s not just that phrasing questions is a skill: it’s that someone who is stressing about something may not think that five years ago, someone asked the same question, and put the result online as a feature article.
It helps that I find all sorts of odd facts amusing. I won’t pursue questions I find boring, but any number of things that I wouldn’t make a long study of are interesting for 15 minutes of web searching.
Other champagne cocktails:
Classic: sugar cube with dash of bitters, 1/2 nip cognac, top up with champagne. This one has many variants including other spirits or liqueurs – cointreau, vodka, you name it. (NOT scotch!*) If you use absinthe it’s “Death in the Afternoon”.
The Aussie: a rosella flower preserved in syrup. Use more or less syrup to taste. http://www.bushtuckershop.com/prod1.htm
Black Velvet: half and half with stout. Guinness, commonly.
* Properly, whisky. Save the single malt for sipping. Tip the cheap shit down the sink. The decent end of blended is OK to mix with coffee or to make a cake.
Seconded, although I personally find it wasteful with a good champagne istead of for example a decent cava.
But I happen to be found of good, dry champagne.
Ignore this, just testing to see if I can post from my main home network again…
feralboy12
Welcome back.
Have a single malt malt.
(scotch and ice cream)
Woohoo! No more writing up posts on my laptop and emailing them to my iPad to submit them!
I dunno. I’m really partial to watching the bartenders eyes bulge while I order an Ardbegh-and-soda. (I really like it too, it’s not pure spite, but the spite is good too).
Or a smoky martini (no actual vermouth is used):
Gently tip the gin bottle in the general direction of France to honour the orgins, then in a shaker combine ice, 60 ml good gin (Tanquray or Bombay for me) and 15 ml cast strength whisky. Shake, them strain and a dash of Angoustura on the top.
Ah, good. I haven’t been fogotten.
Of course, I wouldn’t have been away had my wonderful Acer Aspire One netbook actually been able to make a Wifi connection. It says “Wifi certified” on it and has an antenna that you can turn on and off, yet it never finds a network, even here in the library. I checked some online advice–maybe I can get that to work.
As for my sciatica, it’s a condition that may improve on its own, or not. I have made a lot of progress over the last three-plus months, from not being able to stand without severe cramping and pain to being able to walk and ride bike short distances. Pain killers are mostly no longer required, but discomfort still makes sleeping too long an issue. It’s also played hell with my sense of humor, and my blog may be dying for lack of attention.
Of course, in any other first-world nation I’d be getting health care. Here in the US it’s one trip to the doctor on the credit card, no MRI, and instructions to “take these pain killers and hope it gets better.”
From online study, sometimes not much can be done. But light exercise most days and lots of rest afterward has gotten me a lot better since October.
And I have a library card now, and can use the computers here, but the library is still a bit out of my riding range. Good Gawd, the bus now costs $1.75 one way! It’s almost like prices have gone up in the last 20 years.
Anyway, good on everybody, and hope to be back again soon!
I’m so sorry to hear that Feralboy.
I’d like to work towards socialising the US, but ATM I’m busy fighting those who want to import the US health “care” “system” into my neck of the woods… :(
re women’s shoes.
The last two pairs of shoes (well, boots actually) have both been high heels. And I wear them to work. Does that count?
Feralboy! So good to see you back. I missed you. My last “bout” of sciatica lasted two years. Here’s hoping you see a much quicker recovery.
On the bod front, I have completely fucked up my left wrist. It’s bound in a
torture instrumentbrace for now and if it swells up or I keep wanting to scream, I’ll go back into town and see if I fractured it.As to Vasco – we’re back from seeing Dr. Angie. His eye is bad, looks like he might be getting a pus build up in there now. So, he still has his eye, and I get to put antiobiotic drops in it 3 times a day along with 2 doses of baytril a day for the next 10 days. Chester went with Vasco for moral support and both boys are seriously glad to be back home. Everyone has been treated with fresh Spring mix salad and 4 different types of granola, pumpkin flax (a major fave!) and exciting new pasta (Pantacci Tricolore.)
rq – Congratulations!
Gilliel – I’m so sorry about your mother. *hugs*
feralboy12 – *pouncehug* You are definitely remembered and very much missed. I’m very happy to hear that your sciatica is getting better and hope the rest of your recovery is speedy.
Welcome back, feralboy12.
I wish you and your sciatica a quick divorce.
Feralboy! Forget you? Please. I was just wondering why there was so little of you in my Twitter timeline lately. Welcome back!
Have some grog, if you meds allow for it…
Oooh, race and class at the forefront of a TV show. Eh, not so much–
” Going into the Television Critics Association press tour, one of the shows I was most excited to see shake out was a procedural called Deception, about an African-American police officer, played by Meagan Good, who returns to the white, wealthy family she grew up with because her mother worked for them as a housekeeper to investigate the murder of her childhood best friend. It wasn’t that the show was revolutionary, in fact the reverse: it’s a mashup of ABC soaps like Revenge and Scandal,with a hint of Damages, thanks to the presence of Tate Donovan as the murder victim’s older brother.
But the show operated at the intersection of race and class at a way I thought was fascinating and promising. Good’s Detective Joanna Locasto, only the second woman of color to be the main character on a currently-airing television show, was returning to a setting where she’d grown up on the wrong side of the class divide, not with more money, but with the power of the state on her side. And she and her boss, Will Moreno (Laz Alonso) were in a position that strikes me as almost unprecedented in popular culture: as people of color with substantive power, and particularly police power, who were tasked with investigating and—and personally judging—a decadent and corrupted white family, and with whom the audience is intended to sympathize with absolutely.
[…]
“Meagan’s character, the character of Joanna, was completely accepted into this family and became the best friend of Vivian,” she argued. “So those traditional lines of upstairs/downstairs were crossed when that friendship was made.” It’s a wouldn’t-it-be-pretty-to-think-so scenario. But it’s also one that leaves an enormous amount of history—and potential for rich drama and character development—on the table. It’s difficult for me to believe that an exceedingly WASPY family, scions of extreme wealth, would accept the social integration of their African-American housekeeper’s daughter into the family as not just the best friend of their daughter, but as one of their son’s lovers, in a way that was totally uninfluenced by class or race. That is not to say that the characters need to be irredeemably virulent racists. But it seems naive and boring to insist that such friction wouldn’t exist.”
feralboy12
Hello again. Sorry to hear about your sciatica, etc. On the sciatica, though, I can offer some advice, possibly,from my time as a massage therapist. Unfortunately, a fair amount of that advice is ‘go see a massage therapist’ but I realize that that’s not helpful, due to the costs and all. (Sciatica is often, though not always, caused by a knot, trigger point, or other soft-tissue problem impinging on the nerve, which is why massage often, but not always, helps). I assume that you’re already doing such stretches as you reasonably can; make sure that you stretch your leg as well as the back, as sometimes that’s where the impingement is actually occurring. Beyond that, all I can offer from a distance is best wishes, though.
Ogvorbis @ 317 –
A person who knows many many answers (and is helpful with them) could justifiably be proud of that.
Not pleased to read that Pascal Boyer doesn’t reckon that humans use religion to find explanations for stuff. At least not general stuff. Maybe some particular stuff. Will keep you updated, off to the newly opened home improvement store now. Kid in a candy store, and all that…
Totally threadrupt, but just have to say that we had Caine’s Indian Butter Chicken for dinner and it was excellent.
A person who knows many many answers (and is helpful with them) could justifiably be proud of that.
True, but the stuff that I know is absolutely useless in the real world.
Try again, with the borkquote, you idiot!
True, but the stuff that I know is absolutely useless in the real world.
Hardware Store – Pony Style
—
*anklehugs feralboy12 and Giliell and Tony and JAL’s teeth (what, the bones are all connected)*
Hi feralboy12 – good to see you, but shitty news about the sciatica and the no-internet :( Here’s hoping you get to switch that to internet and no-sciatica soon.
.
re proper whisky, I may (occasionally) make sense but Ogvorbis is funny and way more interesting. Dalillama, no worries – I only wish I had a drop in which to indulge though …
.
Sounds pretty difficult for Vasco … :( Even if he keeps the eye, Caine, will he lost the sight on that side? But I’m guessing he could still have a very good and active life even so, in the rich environment that you provide?
.
Quarter to one, dammit I was so going to have an early night tonight. Failed again. Goodnight Horde (and this thread will be several nautical miles longer by the time I next get a chance to check in. Why do I have to work again?)
“Also, *hugs* for Giliell and Ogvorbis”
Seconded.
— — — — — —
High heels seem odd, anatomically. Aren’t the feet optimised for putting the weight on the heel? And will not high heels put a lot of wear on parts of the foot where the ligaments were not “designed” for it? Altering the angle would shift the load around. Having slightly flat feet I am well aware of the consequences of departing from a design tried and tested by evolution only a little (it hurts).
— — — —
I am told Kepler has found another load of planetary candidates, but so far not many details.
— — — —
Train geese to keep horses away? Fight evil with evil.
It is a little odd anatomically, but low high heels (my lumber boots and my cowboy boots have about a 1.75 inch heel) take a lot of stress off of my MCL. They are also very good at prevent one from locking the knee (my left one has a tendency to hyperextend, to so the high heels help lots).
Sister, who has worked all her life in the food an beverage industry (she is now a second level samoyed, distributing wines) and, after decades in high heels, had to have surgery to lengthen her achilles tendon.
So yes. And no. Maybe?
I am done trying to compliment people I admire here.
I am currently sipping a glass of The Balvenie Doublewood single malt. Boy traded me some for a Gurkha Elite cigar.
Hahaha! I guess some Fox News watchers would not understand this is satire.
“Obama Unveils New American Flag” http://dailycurrant.com/2012/11/12/obama-unveils-american-flag/
— — — — — — — —
Feet and good shoes are sooo much more important than most people think…until they get medical problems walking.
ednaz:
I appreciate the complement. I just feel so down right now that my automatic reaction is to reject it. Sorry.
Opposablethumbs:
.
There’s no reason to think he’ll lose his sight in the eye at this point, but nothing is certain. As it stands, he certainly can’t see much out of it and he’s getting along fine. We were warned it will get worse before it gets better (lots of pus, blood, drainage, etc.) We’ll get him through the next 10 days and go from there. Even if he does lose his sight (or the eye), he’ll be fine. He’s the picture of health otherwise.
Ednaz:
No, don’t say that. Og has some deep issues which are getting him down. Do what I do and tell him “stop that, right fucking now!” He’ll say okay, then apologize about 50 times. It’s just his way, and we love him.
The Gallifreycrumb Tinies
A is for Aldric who blew up in space
B is for Brigadier who died at the base
C is for Cassandra who tore from her spring
D is for Dave who can’t see a thing
I have an other fan.
Oh, my.
My primary artistic outlet is painting small metal figures for role playing games. Sometimes I cut off some bits and replace them with other bits. Frequently I do a little sculpting of the base to give a miniature a context. But it’s really all about making tiny bits of metal give rise to the impression of someone real.
Which leads me to today’s link.
Oh, my goodness, Caine. What haven’t you been telling us?
“In its annual list of the year’s worst abuses against science, the Sense About Science (SAS) campaign also named former U.S. presidential candidate Mitt Romney for spreading misinformation about windows on planes, and Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps for false justifications for peeing in the pool.
To help set the record straight, SAS, a charity dedicated to helping people make sense of science and evidence, invited qualified scientists to respond to some of the wilder pseudo-scientific claims put about by the rich and famous.”
http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/bre8br002-us-celebrities/
****
In other news, when are we getting comic sans back? Oh, and I really don’t like how using the html tags is jacked up.
Janine:
Oh, Julian. I don’t know wtf happened with him. He was okay when he used to post here, then *poof*, he got all milquetoast and accommodationist. He’s been leaning MRA more than once recently, too.
Crip Dyke:
Um…that I’m really a cyber-troll? :D I haven’t done a Reaper in a while. I love painting miniatures. Here are a few I’ve done: http://moblog.net/tag/Caine/warhammer
Oh, wait. The link showed up correctly. So it must be _preview_ that is acting up.
Bad _preview_ ! No soup for you. Just cicely’s horse infused peas.
“…is jacked up”????
Sheesh. Who learned me English?
Tony:
We have it, sort of. You need to have secret comic sans installed in greasemonkey. To use it in a post, you need:
<blockquote cite= “creationist”> </blockquote> that way, you’ll get
High heels were forged in and from the Damnable Doctrine that women’s only worth or need is the degree to which their appearance pleases men.
*waving*
Hi, feralboy. I remember you!
:)
Sciatica is no joke…but it is yet another piece of evidence against the existence of a Perfect and Benevolent Creator, Who made us in Its Image.
(Because if we are created in Its image, and have (among other malfunctionskneesI’mtalkingaboutyou) sciatica in the interests of Accuracy in Copy/Pasting, then 1) It ain’t Perfect, and 2) It sure as hell ain’t Benevolent.)
–
Careful *scritches* for Vasco. Poor boy!
–
Ah, birgen, you’re looking at this all wrong! High heels have nothing to do with optimisation for putting weight anywhere, or movement, or going with what is anatomically sensible! They’re about making women’s legs look longer and slimmer, and bringing the Bumpy Regions into prominence (i.e., “shifting the load around”). I also suspect that they’re about making free movement (specifically, running away, as from an attacker) more difficult—Foot-Binding for the Western Woman, as it were.
Do try to get with The Program!
–
Sorry, Caine. Sorry ednaz. Sorry.
ImaginesABeach
If you and GirlChild would like to share a virtual rattie, Amelia and I are willing.
@Caine
I like the blending/highlighting work on the Inquisitor & the water effects on the water dragon. Very nice stuff.
BTW: I’m going to forever picture you with ibex horns and a hand-held auto cannon whenever you blast lost creationists and sexists here.
Thank You, Caine. I love Ogvorbis, too.
Has anyone sighted FossilFishy recently? The fires in Victoria aren’t too close to where I think he is (somewhere near Wangaratta, Beechworth & Bright) at this point, but it would be nice to know that all the Fishies are safe.
Crip Dyke:
Hahahaha, oh, that’s just fine. :D
Hey, feralboy! I’m so sorry about your sciatica and loss of internet but I am glad to see you again. =)
—————–
—————–
Caine: I’m glad Vasco is going to be okay! Eye issues are scary and I hope the next 10 days go well. Or as well as they can. The ratties are lucky to have you as a servant. =)
And I can offer sharing Chas II as well for ImaginesABeach and GirlChild. We’ve been unfortunately extremely neglectful of him. =( My own Little Own has been wrapped up in trying to retrain the Babysitting Kitty to lay down with us for petting and cuddles. Oddly, it hasn’t worked for her but he’ll lay next to me every time even when I don’t pet him. He’s really become my cat, since he’s attached to me mostly, which frustrates the Little One because she doesn’t get it. I don’t either. I’ve had nightmares that he’s laying next to me like the cats in nursing homes when they know someone is going to die soon.
——————
——————
On Shoes:
Louis
Oh, I know allllll about that one. I’m 12w (no, really) + no budget = I HATE SHOES.
birgerjohansson
Oh, I know that too.
My feet are so messed up. My shoes actually wear really, really unevenly. Like completely one side it will be worn down to where there’s a hole and the other side is scuffed up but fine. It’s on the very long list of “WTF is wrong with me”.
————
—————
Painting miniatures is one of those things I find really cool but doubt I’d be able to do myself. I love looking at all the pictures of them. Wonderful artwork. There’s a lot of amazing pieces out there.
—————-
————–
Any one like sci-fi monster thrillers? Like genetically altered creatures taking over cities? Or ants?
I can suggest The Colony by A.J. Colucci. I just finished it and really enjoyed it. Even with stopping to wiki the ant facts to make sure the author didn’t pull a fast one on this layman. I think the science part was well researched and well done. There’s suspension of disbelief of course, but nothing that pushed me to the edge. Though I’m not a scientist. It’d be interesting to hear a scientists thoughts on it.
Hang on.
Caine is a delikat, frajil flower who needs to be protekted from words [like rape].
That critter does not look delikat.
chigau:
Is that your way of saying jacksul is back?
Anyone looking for a good laugh? Go read comment #12 in the snark/Tina Fey thread.
Tee hee. I’m giggling so much right now.
Tony
Nah.
I’m in a bit of a catch-up time-lag.
Ugh. Shoez. Hates them we does. Heels are of the devil, or the patriarchy. They should only be worn when you don’t need to use your feet for, like, walking or standing.
I am currently wearing Birkenstock sandals. They fit my wide feet. I wish my feet were long enough for men’s shoes, which are on the whole a bit wider, but no, they’re too small for that. Men’s size 5 is very hard to find – I swear boys go barefoot when they get to my size.
I know, Tony! I have to confess, I LOL’d. PZ is such an #FTBully.
Time lag?
You mean you aren’t in a similar time zone as everyone else? You ain’t in ‘Mericah? /snark
Alethea, I feel your pain. I’m a size 6 wide. It is such a pain in the ass to find shoes I like that actually fit.
OHHHH! Today has been busy with Little One’s first day back to school. But I have some hopeful news!
I’ve been calling dentist places. While there’s the obvious wait times, they need the money up front for the first appointment and after that payment arrangements can be made. I’m a bit worried about if they want verification of employment/income but that’s a worry for later. I did find a place that does $35 dollar emergency appointment in the evening. (Subject to waiting only if they have line or the cases take awhile.) Which at least gets the exam and all that done so I’d at least get the necessary meds (since I’m sure it’s infected) and such.
I’ve emailed Esteleh to transfer the funds, which takes a few days so that way I can get things rolling once I get that.
Re: shoes-
I have size 12 feet, which are wide and flat. I have come across many shoes I like, but they are too narrow. I have been thinking I need to start getting size 13 in sneakers, bc my current (& only) pair are really tight on my feet.
My feet are (with bunions) 8 or 8½ or 9.
I haven’t bought girl-shoes for years.
Work boots aren’t a problem.
JAL
good for you and your teeth
Fixing the teeth won’t solve the rest of your problems but you will be astonished at how your outlook changes when you don’t start each day wanting to rip your own face off.
rq Congrats! So now it’s a race between construction work and paper work. Now, normally I’d say that you’ll be in your house before I’m in mine, but well, listen to this:
We bought our block of land over two years ago. We searched for maybe four months for a builder who wasn’t just greenwashing when they talked about sustainable building. I knew we had found a winner after Mrs. Fishy’s first meeting with our builders.
[phone rings]
“Hey honey, how did the meeting go?”
“Uhm, good. Look I need to tell you something.”
“Oh no, what is it? They’re another bullshit fake eco company, right?”
“No, no, nothing like that. It went really well. [long pause] After we were done I said: I feel like I should give you guys a hug.”
“Okaaaay, what did they say?”
“They said, ‘We like hugs’ and we had a group hug.”
[laughing] “So I guess we’ve found a builder then….”
So that’s how it started. They did a design, we liked it, very funky and modern and actually sustainable. Then we applied for permissions. And it all went walloon shaped.
We’re 4K from town water and sewage and our block is within 50m of a creek. This means the the lovely administrative body Golburn/Murray Water (henceforth GMW) has a say in our sewage disposal system. Fair enough, we wouldn’t do an old-fashioned septic even if we were allowed to.
The first hint of trouble was when they demanded a land capability assessment. This is a test to determine how much treated outflow from our septic system could be absorbed by the land without running off into the creek. Fair enough.
The results came back saying that 10 people could live on that land. Now, our block is zoned for two dwellings, it’s one of the reasons we bought it. The plan is for this tiny, modest house to be our home for a few years and then we’ll owner build a larger straw bale place and this house will become a nanna flat or rental accommodation. The way that they count it is bedrooms plus one. Land capable of absorbing the waste water from ten people can have a nine bedroom home built on it. Or in our case, two homes with a total of eight bedrooms between them.
GMW came back telling us that we could only build 3 bedrooms on that land, regardless of the number of structures those bedrooms are contained in. We were gobsmacked. What the fuck was the point of getting that assessment if they weren’t going to rule based on it?
The shire employee responsible for our building permit was great. He claimed he didn’t understand this ruling either and told us to let it go for a time while he talked to GMW. He came back having talked them into an extra bedroom for a total of four.
We looked into challenging the ruling and our lawyer told us that Vcat, the judiciary normally responsible for these sorts of things always sides with GMW. The cost and time of taking it to a higher court was completely prohibitive. We were forced to redesign the house. Some creative work with a false wall in my daughter’s bedroom made our plans feasible again.
That redesign took time and money. By the time it was done our pre-approval for financing had expired so we had to re-apply. We were re-approved for a lesser amount. The financial instability in the EU was making lenders nervous and the word h ad come down to tighten up. That plus the increase in material costs since our initial design forced us into yet another redesign. Which cost us more money.
In the end Mrs. Fishy calculated that with material cost rises and redesign costs and legal fees GMW cost us $10,000. Why?
Mrs. Fishy is an engineer and she’s on the board of an engineer’s social group. Through them we ended up having a lovely dinner with a couple of town planners from the next big town down the valley. They told us that GMW has a policy of stopping new building in their watershed at every opportunity. Because they have no control over permits or zoning outside of inundation areas all they can do is make it as hard as possible for folks to get septic permits. And that’s what they did to us. Almost two years of delays and $10,000 would have sunk most folk. Fortunately we have modest desires and Mrs. Fishy qualified for a $26,000 first home builder grant from the government. so we got through. Barely.
So, let’s see, it’s a race between the builders and the bureaucrats rq, hmmmm, I think it might be close, though if it is you’ll h ave my sympathies.
JAL I am really, really glad to hear that.
JAL:
Awesome!
I hope you’re able to get your teeth taken care of.
FossilFishy
So you aren’t burning?
Not yet chigau. Here in Victoria it’s not as bad as in New South Wales or Tasmania. But you can be sure that I have the Country Fire Authority’s warning page up and am checking it regularly as well as watching the sky for smoke and the weather radar for thunderstorms. Our bushfire survival plan involves running like hell, and that only works if you know about a threatening fire before the smoke and embers get to you. I won’t be able to relax until it rains for a week or more.
Tony, mixed drink question: do you know if the specific gravity of liqueurs varies much? I just made a drink with butterscotch schnapps, caramel vodka, and creme de menthe and I’m wondering if there’s any hope at all for getting distinct green and gold layers in a version of it. O.o
Azkyroth:
I can’t help you there. My knowledge doesn’t extend that far.
Also, it occurred to me today: bureaucracy can basically be summarized as “Petty Crimes Against Humanity.” Fishy’s experience confirms that.
Actually, while I know nothing about specific gravity of liquors (I really should have read your entire comment before responding, rather than the first sentence. My apologies.), I do know that the liquors you’ve chosen aren’t likely to layer (I just don’t know the science behind it).
A drink/shot such as a B-52-Kahlua, Bailey’s, and Grand Marnier–only works because of the Bailey’s. It is so much thicker in consistency (the specific gravity you spoke of, I suppose), that it is able to rest atop the Kahlua, while the Grand Marnier is able to sit atop it.
Drat.
…what does everyone think of that combination? O.o
quite a few liqueurs will layer, but they have to be poured in the right order and gently, so the layers don’t mix. (I had a friend who practiced layering drinks along a glass stirring rod – yay lab surplus.)
http://www.drinknation.com/bartending/how-to-layer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layered_drink
Damn. More gun deaths. In Aurora, CO.
http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/bre90408w-us-usa-shooting-colorado/