When I was very young, my Dad combed my hair. I don’t know why; perhaps I was hilariously bad at it. But it meant that we had a few minutes one-on-one in the morning before he went to work and I went to daycare or the like. We would talk about whatever was on our minds. It was on one of these morning that we broached the subject of first cause, or, as a young child would put it, where everything comes from. He explained about the Big Bang and the Primordial Point. I don’t remember the words, but the image in my mind is vivid.
It must have been a few years later that our household acquired the big, beautiful National Geographic Picture Atlas of Our Universe, with which I spent many a happy hour. We also had a copy of The Joy of Sex, and between the two of them all of my big existential questions were answered for a long while.
This didn’t leave a lot of room for religion. My mother was religious, but not very. Church wasn’t a regular thing in our house. Around the age of 6 or so, I went to Sunday school for a few years. I knew I didn’t believe in it; memorizing bible verses was basically a trivia competition for me. I clearly remember the day I said I wasn’t going back, though.
The church was some sort of Pentecostal-flavored evangelical. Not quite holy-roller, but they would get excited. One Sunday, I was sitting in the back of the pews, waiting to go home, when I heard something a little louder than usual, and I looked up. On stage, the preacher was shouting something I didn’t quite catch, waving his arms above his head — not in emphasis, mind you, waving them like he was flagging an eighteen-wheeler to a stop — and hopping around the stage on one foot.
Hopping around the stage on one foot.
I told my parents that these people were crazy, and I wasn’t going back. They didn’t make me.
I’m under the impression that at my mother’s request I was later baptized, although this is a foggy memory for me. If it happened, it didn’t matter much to me. And when I joined the Boy Scouts, it took us a few tries to find a troop that would allow an atheist member, though we finally did and I made Eagle. As a Cub Scout, getting the Arrow of Light badge required obtaining a religious emblem, for which I attended a Unitarian church briefly. They didn’t seem to insist that I believed anything, which suited me fine, since I didn’t. I got the emblem, hung around for a bit, didn’t see any further point, and left again.
(You might wonder why my mother didn’t pressure me more. For one, my brother is religious, which no doubt helps. For another, she might have if she felt that I was endangering my soul, but if I understand correctly she thinks that only 144,000 are going to be saved, so I suppose she considered it unlikely to work. One day I asked, and she said no, she didn’t think she would be among them. That made me deeply sad. My mother’s a good woman, no saint but a good woman, and someone made her think she’s damned? She’s become more active in church in recent years, and while I’d rather she was atheist, given the choice of two delusions I think I’d rather she feel saved.)
Inflection
The 144,000 are, collectively, 12,000 male virgins from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.
However, that group is just the ones going to Heaven. IIRC, those who are down with the big guy on the last day will be granted eternal life on “do-over” Earth, which will supposedly be a nice place.
This reminds me of the relationship that my oldest daughter had with her Dad when she was very young. He took her to preschool on his bicycle every morning, and brought her home when he finished his classes.
They would talk about science on those trips. She learned about the Big Bang, Evolution, Human Reproduction – basically anything that came to both of their minds – on his bike.
Today she is a Neurobiology PHD.
Owlmirror
11 September 2012 at 8:41 am
The 144,000 are, collectively, 12,000 male virgins from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.
So that’s where the Muslims are getting their virgins. I bet they’re both gonna be surprised.
This does not make sense. Only JWs believe in the 144000 doctrine. And they only believe that 144000 will go to heaven. The rest of the faithful believers will inhabit a new Earth. As for the rest, they do not believe in damnation: those who are not justified will be annihilated.
I have serious trouble believing that a Pentecostal church would subscribe to JW heresies.
Some Pentecostal churches subscribe to the Modalist heresy, or the heresy that only those with “charismatic” gifts are saved. But none to the JWs heresy. Something is not adding up here.
You cannot tar all of Christianity with the bizarre aberrations that are being piled up here. But my sympathies for PZ. It seems he did not receive a solid grounding in the Christian faith. That explains a lot. I hope it is not to late and he is still open to hearing the other side. I hope others will not be deceived by the skewed, horrid version that he was taught as a child, whatever it was.
Odd, that. The JWs have obviously read the bible. Revelation quite clearly mentions the 144,000 male jewish virgins. I suggest you read it too, then if you’re at all sensible, you can join us in laughing at the entire book.
If my memory serves (been a while since reading Rev.), those 144,000 Jewish male virgins also have a number on their foreheads. And then they will all return to Earth in a big glass box which will come down over New Jerusalem (this is where the J-Man will live), and occasionally a couple of earthly kings will be allowed into the “crystal cathedral” to join Hey-Zeus and smoke see-gars and drink brandy in the most exclusive gentleman’s club you’ve ever seen. Women are never mentioned.
Ge whizz snox I’m not sure Inflection is PZ I think inflection is a separate person.
Your response odes illustrate one of the biggest problems with religion though. It is the infinite contradiction and profound disagreements over what boils down to unsupported opinion. Which is the essence of all religious dogma.
” A pox on “all” your houses”
uncle frogy
It is incredibly sad that your mother thinks she won’t be saved. Honest question: why does she stick with a religion that she appears to believe is screwing her over? I find this really hard to wrap my head around and would be grateful for some enlightenment.
snoxbiloxi,
True; the different sects can’t even agree on which bizarre aberrations to believe.
Duh! Since you’re too stupid to work out that this account is not from PZ (hint: look at the title of the post), I guess it’s no surprise you’re stupid enough to take Christianity seriously.
Yeah, you make a good point.
snoxbiloxi:
You aren’t too good at reading, are you? The essay was written by Inflection, clearly stated right in the title, not by PZ. PZ is simply posting the essays people wrote. He has hundreds of them and posts one or two a day.
I want to be a child again, chatting with my Dad ad he combs my hair.
I’ll admit I’m a little hazy on the theology. But then, I’m pretty sure the theologians are too, so it’s all good.
Oh, and snoxbiloxi @4: I grew up in a melting-pot lower-middle-class suburb of Houston, Texas. Believe me, I was marinated in every flavor of Christianity you care to name, and there are plenty of them that believe things you would find unusual, from the Seventh-Day Adventists to the Jehovah’s Witnesses to prosperity-theology interdenominational megachurches. The neighborhood where I grew up, you don’t have to leave to find anyone from quiet Episcopalians to Catholics to radical “spiritual warfare” house churches. (And you don’t have to walk many blocks to find a few who will do your voodoo, too.)
So whatever True Scotsman version of Christianity you think I haven’t seen, I have. It’s true I’d have problems picking it out of the noise of all the others… guess it doesn’t look so special from the outside.
snowbiloxi,
“[…] Modalist heresy,
or the heresy that only those with “charismatic” gifts are saved.
But none to the JWs heresy.
You keep using that word. I think you may not understand that each of those groups you have spurned as heretics would likely label you a heretic in return, as would a lot of the other tens of thousands of Christian sects, though maybe some would not assert that you must be going to Hell for it.
We don’t need to get into what Muslims or Sikhs or Hindus, etc. think of your obvious delusions.
You can make life Hell for you and yours, you could make life Hell for them and theirs, but please don’t. Nobody’s going to Hell. Nobody ever has, nobody ever will.
And Stella @8: I haven’t the foggiest. Perhaps I’ve misinterpreted her views; she seems to enjoy going on church retreats every now and then, so her religion doesn’t seem like a source of sadness for her.
I was curious, since I figured I should know more about what she believed, but after a few tentative questions one day regarding her theology, in which she called herself Pentecostal and I learned that she believed she had (once) spoken in tongues, I felt that the air was getting a little tense and I backed off. We have a very pleasant relationship that doesn’t involve attempting to convert each other and I’m okay with that.
My brother occasionally tries to convert me after he’s gone to revival but it never goes very far. As religious families go, I suppose I’m lucky. I’ve heard much worse stories from others in this series.
Failure to distinguish between different people is a requirement for most sects of christianity. In fact, they even have a name for it, they call it the doctrine of the trinity.
Indeed!
You need to identitfy that they have many different bizarre aberrations.