Second video you’ve linked to by him that I’ve liked.
Stevarioussays
…there are different kinds of trolls, some are more harmful than others…
Some are scrags and can only regenerate when wet, some have class levels and can get uncanny dodge to be immune to sneak attacks or cast resist fire to negate their primary weakness…
golkariansays
Lol, troll back packers
otramesays
I did not know about him until you showed that other one a few days ago. I liked this one even better. He has an excellent way of using pop culture references to talk about the issues he addresses that I find quite appealing. He’s a talented guy
A good opportunity to “feed the trolls” is when you’re not really feeding the trolls– you’re responding to them, but for the purpose of saying something that needs to be said for your own edification or that of others. Doing it for yourself and the lurkers. Trolls aren’t trying to drive someone to a point of inspiration or epiphany, but sometimes they can do so anyway and it’s probably aggravating as hell for them to realize that.
Akira MacKenziesays
Speaking of “trolls.” I just listened to a well known youTube idiot condemn rape culture (with regards to the possible treatment of Sandusky after he is sentenced) then go on to accuse women who complain about sexual harassment in the atheist/skeptical movement of “tearing the movement apart.”
Ummmmm, TJ, are you really THAT clueless that you can’t see that their might be some linkage betwixt our society’s brutality and the disregard for women’s concerns? Or is rape only abominable when it happens to someone with a penis?
machintelligencesays
What bothers me personally about the troll problem is how much of the comment thread it fills up. For example, in the Steve Pinker on Group Selection comments, about 70% were trolls and troll stomping for a while. Later the comments largely returned to the topic. Not a disaster, but annoying.
Shplanesays
@Akira MacKenzie #6
I honestly, deeply wish that TAA wasn’t such a shitty person, because when he’s not railing on women for having vaginas or generally spouting stupid horseshit, I actually like the whole RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE style of his videos. It’s nice to see someone just scream FUCK FUCK FUCK about these things, sometimes. The Sandusky part of that video is a pretty good example. It’s great to see someone say “Fuck you, America, for being such an awful place full of awful people.”
He just had to fucking ruin it, though. God damn, fuck that guy for wasting that potential.
DLCsays
Again with a video I can agree with and that’s well made.
Akira MacKenziesays
@Shplane
I know, that’s what dissapoints me the most about TAM. TJ is articulate and observant. He can be very thoughtful and funny. In this video he was doing quite well… up until the topic of feminism came up and he transformed into a fucking Dudebro who couldn’t detect cognitive dissidence if it came up and bit him on the nose.
He a relatively young guy, and I keep hoping he’ll grow out of this prolonged adolescence* of his and realize what an asshole he’s been and wise up. Sadly, that may never be. More is the pity.
*And I’m not talking about watching Korra. I’m 37 and I love Legend of Korra for all of its Avatar-meets-1930s-pulp goodness. It certainly beats all the other “mature” crap that’s on TV right now.
michaelpowerssays
I love listening to him talk. There’s something about the cadence of his speech. It has an odd, modern-day Shakespearean quality about it.
The actual message wasn’t bad, either.
flapjacksays
I think it all depends on which troll you’re dealing with and there is a substantial crossover between the two types too.
I post on a Gay news messageboard from time to time and there was a persistant troll on those boards who would come up with any amount of homophobic bile he gleaned from some US fundamentalist pamphlet. You know the kind of tripe, (tolerating gays = slippery slope to the last days of the Roman Empire and permitting hedonistic incestous polygamous bestial child abusing scat obsessed orgies) It got so regular you could practically write the script for him.
In the absence of a proper banhammer the only way to deal with him was to starve him of oxygen. He even let slip he was waiting for someone to bite one time. When no-one took the bait he ran out of steam after 2 posts. If anyone bit you got another 200 posts almost identical in content to the first.
He couldn’t be reasoned with and he kept it up for years before they finally pulled the plug on his remote ISP.
I don’t perceive a world of difference between one type of trolling and the other, the targets and intent may be different but there are big similarities in the obsessive mindset.
I honestly, deeply wish that TAA wasn’t such a shitty person, because when he’s not railing on women for having vaginas or generally spouting stupid horseshit, I actually like the whole RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE style of his videos.
Kind of like Bill Hicks. Or a variety of men on the political left. Huge fucking blind spot, and while it doesn’t necessarily invalidate the rest of what they have to say, it doesn’t make me interested in listening to them, either. I can get the same rage and critique from any number of feminist or ally sources.
Akira, a lot of men never “grow out” of that shit. Ever. It’s not specific to any generation, but if you want some prime current examples of “There’s no fool like an old fool” on the topic of sexism, consider baby-boomer men like Dr. Marty Klein, or a number of the douchebags on DailyKos who are “progressive” only when it costs them nothing in privilege.
Flapjack:
tolerating gays = slippery slope to the last days of the Roman Empire and permitting hedonistic incestous polygamous bestial child abusing scat obsessed orgies
Well, there’s a glimpse into his repressed fantasies I’m sure you could have done without, eh?
There’s also the “give them attention, but not really” tactic. As Flapjack said, some trolls will go on and on and on after people have “taken the bait”
Go ahead and try, take the bait and let the troll start creating post after post and thread after thread and then just ignore him again.
admittedly it’s not very helpful, but it can be rather satisfying as it enables you to sort of “reverse gotcha” the troll and also return to your regular whatever-discussion-going-on schedule with virtually no effort on your part.
This, of course, depends upon what kind of troll you’re facing. I’ll happily admit that generally I prefer the dungeons and dragons variety troll.
jackrawlinsonsays
Hmm. Good points, but what he’s talking about there isn’t what I’d call trolling. Also, the only response to hate speech (or whatever you want to call it) isn’t either to engage or shut up, as he suggests in his preamble. You can still have your “voice on the internet” and still choose to ignore responses you don’t wish to engage with.
Rip Steakfacesays
There’s something about the cadence of his speech. It has an odd, modern-day Shakespearean quality about it.
It probably has to do with his background in hip-hop. Ignoring the hip-pop that dominates the mainstream of popular music today, underground hip-hop basically is the equivalent of Shakespeare in terms of poetic quality in the modern day.
And yes, his message is excellent.
flapjacksays
@ MichaelE #16
The “give them attention but not really tactic” may be fun for one thread, but I find trolls you give any attention to will still keep popping up again and again for months after the joke wore off.
The subtext of everything they do is “Look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me… Haaaa – got you to look!” and if you give them their little ego-fix (no matter how ironic) they’ll be back sure as night follows day like some kind of attention-seeking missile.
Fair enough, you might be wise to that, but they can always find someone else on the same thread who’s more easily baited.
Steve the Drunk Unicyclistsays
michaelpowers @ 11:
I love listening to him talk. There’s something about the cadence of his speech. It has an odd, modern-day Shakespearean quality about it.
Funny you should mention that. At 2:52 – “…kind of trolling that’s just in pursuit of sound and fury …”
I wonder how many of those “old school” trolls will pick up on that?
John Horstmansays
I prefer the dehumanizing marginalization tactic of talking about trolls or the subject matter they raise without addressing them directly and/or acknowledging their existence/presence. Granted, this tactic is NOT NICE and should only be deployed when silencing tactics are appropriate i.e. against dedicated, intentional trolling. It’s very effective in some cases; people accustomed to privilege in particular can sometimes be shocked into silence or leaving for more comfortable territory when vicious and intentional marginalization tactics are deployed against them, as they’re not at all used to it* and haven’t developed coping strategies.
Anyhoo, this video is awesome; I must watch MOAR of this guy.
*Of course, some ARE used to it because most people are privileged in some ways and marginalized in others, though the severity/harm and degree of cultural institutionalization can differ greatly with respect to different vectors of power. Pretty much everyone has at least a passing familiarity, as pretty much everyone has faced marginalization and discrimination on the basis of age, though many people seem all too happy to reenact the same systemic marginalization as they become older.
cultureclashsays
I now have a craving for more Jay Smooth video’s…
Is it just me that thinks it should have been Jay being invited to FTB rather than Thunderfoot?
Second video you’ve linked to by him that I’ve liked.
Some are scrags and can only regenerate when wet, some have class levels and can get uncanny dodge to be immune to sneak attacks or cast resist fire to negate their primary weakness…
Lol, troll back packers
I did not know about him until you showed that other one a few days ago. I liked this one even better. He has an excellent way of using pop culture references to talk about the issues he addresses that I find quite appealing. He’s a talented guy
A good opportunity to “feed the trolls” is when you’re not really feeding the trolls– you’re responding to them, but for the purpose of saying something that needs to be said for your own edification or that of others. Doing it for yourself and the lurkers. Trolls aren’t trying to drive someone to a point of inspiration or epiphany, but sometimes they can do so anyway and it’s probably aggravating as hell for them to realize that.
Speaking of “trolls.” I just listened to a well known youTube idiot condemn rape culture (with regards to the possible treatment of Sandusky after he is sentenced) then go on to accuse women who complain about sexual harassment in the atheist/skeptical movement of “tearing the movement apart.”
Ummmmm, TJ, are you really THAT clueless that you can’t see that their might be some linkage betwixt our society’s brutality and the disregard for women’s concerns? Or is rape only abominable when it happens to someone with a penis?
What bothers me personally about the troll problem is how much of the comment thread it fills up. For example, in the Steve Pinker on Group Selection comments, about 70% were trolls and troll stomping for a while. Later the comments largely returned to the topic. Not a disaster, but annoying.
@Akira MacKenzie #6
I honestly, deeply wish that TAA wasn’t such a shitty person, because when he’s not railing on women for having vaginas or generally spouting stupid horseshit, I actually like the whole RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE style of his videos. It’s nice to see someone just scream FUCK FUCK FUCK about these things, sometimes. The Sandusky part of that video is a pretty good example. It’s great to see someone say “Fuck you, America, for being such an awful place full of awful people.”
He just had to fucking ruin it, though. God damn, fuck that guy for wasting that potential.
Again with a video I can agree with and that’s well made.
@Shplane
I know, that’s what dissapoints me the most about TAM. TJ is articulate and observant. He can be very thoughtful and funny. In this video he was doing quite well… up until the topic of feminism came up and he transformed into a fucking Dudebro who couldn’t detect cognitive dissidence if it came up and bit him on the nose.
He a relatively young guy, and I keep hoping he’ll grow out of this prolonged adolescence* of his and realize what an asshole he’s been and wise up. Sadly, that may never be. More is the pity.
*And I’m not talking about watching Korra. I’m 37 and I love Legend of Korra for all of its Avatar-meets-1930s-pulp goodness. It certainly beats all the other “mature” crap that’s on TV right now.
I love listening to him talk. There’s something about the cadence of his speech. It has an odd, modern-day Shakespearean quality about it.
The actual message wasn’t bad, either.
I think it all depends on which troll you’re dealing with and there is a substantial crossover between the two types too.
I post on a Gay news messageboard from time to time and there was a persistant troll on those boards who would come up with any amount of homophobic bile he gleaned from some US fundamentalist pamphlet. You know the kind of tripe, (tolerating gays = slippery slope to the last days of the Roman Empire and permitting hedonistic incestous polygamous bestial child abusing scat obsessed orgies) It got so regular you could practically write the script for him.
In the absence of a proper banhammer the only way to deal with him was to starve him of oxygen. He even let slip he was waiting for someone to bite one time. When no-one took the bait he ran out of steam after 2 posts. If anyone bit you got another 200 posts almost identical in content to the first.
He couldn’t be reasoned with and he kept it up for years before they finally pulled the plug on his remote ISP.
I don’t perceive a world of difference between one type of trolling and the other, the targets and intent may be different but there are big similarities in the obsessive mindset.
Shplane:
Kind of like Bill Hicks. Or a variety of men on the political left. Huge fucking blind spot, and while it doesn’t necessarily invalidate the rest of what they have to say, it doesn’t make me interested in listening to them, either. I can get the same rage and critique from any number of feminist or ally sources.
Akira, a lot of men never “grow out” of that shit. Ever. It’s not specific to any generation, but if you want some prime current examples of “There’s no fool like an old fool” on the topic of sexism, consider baby-boomer men like Dr. Marty Klein, or a number of the douchebags on DailyKos who are “progressive” only when it costs them nothing in privilege.
Flapjack:
Well, there’s a glimpse into his repressed fantasies I’m sure you could have done without, eh?
Damn, I love this guy!
There’s also the “give them attention, but not really” tactic. As Flapjack said, some trolls will go on and on and on after people have “taken the bait”
Go ahead and try, take the bait and let the troll start creating post after post and thread after thread and then just ignore him again.
admittedly it’s not very helpful, but it can be rather satisfying as it enables you to sort of “reverse gotcha” the troll and also return to your regular whatever-discussion-going-on schedule with virtually no effort on your part.
This, of course, depends upon what kind of troll you’re facing. I’ll happily admit that generally I prefer the dungeons and dragons variety troll.
Hmm. Good points, but what he’s talking about there isn’t what I’d call trolling. Also, the only response to hate speech (or whatever you want to call it) isn’t either to engage or shut up, as he suggests in his preamble. You can still have your “voice on the internet” and still choose to ignore responses you don’t wish to engage with.
It probably has to do with his background in hip-hop. Ignoring the hip-pop that dominates the mainstream of popular music today, underground hip-hop basically is the equivalent of Shakespeare in terms of poetic quality in the modern day.
And yes, his message is excellent.
@ MichaelE #16
The “give them attention but not really tactic” may be fun for one thread, but I find trolls you give any attention to will still keep popping up again and again for months after the joke wore off.
The subtext of everything they do is “Look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me… Haaaa – got you to look!” and if you give them their little ego-fix (no matter how ironic) they’ll be back sure as night follows day like some kind of attention-seeking missile.
Fair enough, you might be wise to that, but they can always find someone else on the same thread who’s more easily baited.
michaelpowers @ 11:
Funny you should mention that. At 2:52 – “…kind of trolling that’s just in pursuit of sound and fury …”
I wonder how many of those “old school” trolls will pick up on that?
I prefer the dehumanizing marginalization tactic of talking about trolls or the subject matter they raise without addressing them directly and/or acknowledging their existence/presence. Granted, this tactic is NOT NICE and should only be deployed when silencing tactics are appropriate i.e. against dedicated, intentional trolling. It’s very effective in some cases; people accustomed to privilege in particular can sometimes be shocked into silence or leaving for more comfortable territory when vicious and intentional marginalization tactics are deployed against them, as they’re not at all used to it* and haven’t developed coping strategies.
Anyhoo, this video is awesome; I must watch MOAR of this guy.
*Of course, some ARE used to it because most people are privileged in some ways and marginalized in others, though the severity/harm and degree of cultural institutionalization can differ greatly with respect to different vectors of power. Pretty much everyone has at least a passing familiarity, as pretty much everyone has faced marginalization and discrimination on the basis of age, though many people seem all too happy to reenact the same systemic marginalization as they become older.
I now have a craving for more Jay Smooth video’s…
Is it just me that thinks it should have been Jay being invited to FTB rather than Thunderfoot?