Apparently, I’ve been doing it wrong — I need to demand that you bring me beer.
(Episode CCCXXX: People I’ve talked to.)
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
Apparently, I’ve been doing it wrong — I need to demand that you bring me beer.
(Episode CCCXXX: People I’ve talked to.)
Oh, hi Walton!
*waves*
considering that I’ve been to the Mall of America, that would make a shopping center of the following size: 88 floors, 8580000 sqm, 2120.8 acres
:-p
Hi!
Jadehawk,
I’d address that, but there are not enough exclamation marks to do that justice.
:|
I see the Hovind thread has turned into a group therapy session. Haven’t had one of those for what feels like days…
1) Dhorvath, #334,
OI! I was joking damn your eyes and curse your nethers! Now if you were joking to and I’ve missed it, may Ted Haggard’s parts shrivel away and may a thousand fleas infest Ken Ham’s testicles. I cannot say fairer than that.
2) SC, #335,
Oh for fu…
I had deliberately not looked at Kindle. Dammit now I have sleep clicked the “one click buy” button, downloaded them and now I am going to have to read them. WHY!!!? WHY!!!!!? My reading list is HUGE! WHY!!!!? ;-)
3) Jadehawk, #432,
Erm…dude….dudette rather…you know I love you, but trim the edges of that broad brush for me would ya?
An analogy: Feminists get “ZOMG YOU THINK ALL MEN ARE POTENTIAL RAPISTS” etc thrown at them all the time and the eyes, they doth rolleth, the knee it doth jerketh. Rightly so. It hurts to go over feminism 101 with dullards a thousand times a day. It hurts more that one person in that thousand gets it. We’d all rather be arguing at the bleeding edge of feminist thought than battering the simple 101 material into the heads of unwilling fuckwits.
Chemistry is complicated. Drug discovery is fucking awesomely complicated. The pharma industry gets a huge quantity of ignorant, irrelevant shit thrown at it (underestimate of the century). If I haven’t made it abundantly clear yet, despite working in that industry, I am fiercely critical of it. So sure, a lot of that shit is well earned. But just like the feminists I get frustrated by bad criticism. Bad criticism dilutes and hinders good criticism.
I’m not saying what SC and others are doing is bad, far from it, I have yet to read the full array of what these helpful folks have laid before me, I don’t yet know.
Why mention it? The origins and development of *pick any drug* are not arbitrary or arrived at easily. I know no one here is arguing that they are, my point is that since so much criticism of drug discovery/medicine (esp psych medicine) is ill informed and disastrously wrong, sometimes we get the knee jerk false positive. Just like that one in a thousand critics of feminism doesn’t need the same degree of stomping that a slimepitter does. The eyes can prematurely roll, a pretty human response, and the knee can prematurely jerk.
Seriously, even for someone very familiar with this technical stuff to the point of it being a simple conversational topic, this stuff takes some unpicking. Please don’t bemoan the premature knee jerk too harshly, especially if you’re not on the receiving end of the torrent of drivel that people on this particular front line are. We’re entitled to make mistakes too.
Louis
this has, amazingly enough, fuck all to do with that comment. the bracket comment was limiting (i’m sure other things are wanted from other people elsewhere), not all-encompasing.
IOW, if it’s not about you, it’s not about you.
What’s wrong with old people? O_o
*spreads herself nekkid on consciousness razor’s lawn*
A wonderfully summery summer day here, and I have to sit inside and work, because _someone_ forgot to bring me an extension cord so I can’t take the laptop outside for more than an hour at a time before the battery dies…
Lilacs and apple trees are starting to blossom, while the bird cherries are already in full bloom, like huge clouds of pure white.
Dalillama, #348,
Well I don’t know what your experience is, but let me offer a different experience.
My wife and I engage in non-monogamy. Everything from swinging to polyamory. Hell, we’re even monogamous for long periods, kinky right! ;-)
It’s about the right people, not the right “act” per se.
In our experience swinging/wife swapping (not a term I like either) is female lead. Maybe we’ve been lucky to move in different circles to you, but we have only ever experienced one problem environment at a club where the number of single men outweighed the number of nitrogen molecules in the air. Not good. We did nothing and left, fast.
We’re also both not “Kinsey 0” or “Kinsey 1” heterosexuals. We’re both somewhere between one and three, with my wife being three-er than I am on average and me being one-er than her. It varies. So whilst the (as you note almost universal) restriction on M/M homosexuality in swingers clubs, I’ve got no great problem with that if that is known going in.
I might not like it, might want a different environment, but then it’s up to me to organise events where it’s not verboten. And guess what, I have. I don’t find it discriminatory in a bad way for people to agree to a certain set of standards beforehand and follow them, in fact in something like swinging it’s necessary. Bear in mind I am not defending anything more than the right of people to assemble an act in a way they all find pleasurable.
If you look for them (or set them up) there are plenty of events with M/M homosexuality or bisexuality. In fact, you can get rather a lot of {ahem} takers! By which I mean enthusiastic participants.
All that said, the prevalence of anti M/M bi/homosexuality in public, “commercial” swinger events is I think reflective of a homophobic and misogynistic attitude in the wider culture. It’s also reflective of preference. One is problematic, the other isn’t. But I think it’s important to note it’s far from universal, certainly negotiable, and perhaps neither your experience, nor my experience, is binding on others. The one rule I abide by is “be clear, be up front, agree everything beforehand, no means no at any point”. After that, what happens happens.
As for the “misogyny” of swinging, well yes and no. Yes because, well we live in a largely sexist and misogynist society, it would be stunning if that environment was unaffected. The tale of the “reluctant wife” dragged along by the “eager husband” is as old as the hills, and certainly not untrue. The second part of that story, which is “reluctant wife becomes eager wife” and “eager husband becomes reluctant husband” is rarely noted. It’s an old story for a reason. It’s ferociously common. Not exclusively so, sadly.
Which brings me to why “no”. The majority of heterosexual swinging couples I have met have been “lead” by the woman. What she says, goes. Period. Anything else, even the merest whiff, and we back away. We’re far from alone in this. In fact there are clubs/nights etc set up specifically with this rule stated and adhered to like glue.
What bugs me about your broad brush statements is not so much that they do not match my and my wife’s experience, but they seem to (note: SEEM TO) remove agency from the woman. Who the hell said it was the eager husband alone? Plenty of couples, when probed on the subject, discussed this before acting on it, the woman was at least as keen as the man, and was keen to get involved. Again, in my experience, it’s usually the men who get insecure and have cold feet, especially after a first experience, not the women.
Which brings me to my last point. If memory serves, female bisexuality is more prevalently expressed than male bisexuality. Now there are reasons for that, many of them unpleasant (for example the misogynist attitude that men being sexually subservient to other men is womanly and therefore a Bad Thing….urgh). But also that the distribution of women along the Kinsey scale seems to be more bell-shaped than the distribution of men. I might be wrong about that, and I’d have to double check (can’t exactly google it where I am now!), but that’s what I vaguely remember. From the little I know, the general acceptance of female bisexuality in swinging is a reflection not just of societal misogyny/homophobia (it is, I do not deny that’s a factor) but also of the larger degree of female bisexuality.
I guess all this TMI and TL;DR is for one thing: please don’t paint a diverse community, containing a large number of people who are not raving misogynists etc, with such a broad brush. Other people’s experiences might well differ from yours.
Louis
Jadehawk,
Whu!? It’s not all about ME? You mean I’m not the centre of the universe?
Are you calling my mother a liar?
Louis
P.S. You made the statement ending “…from the other commenters here”, something that separated “we three” from “the rest of them”. You want X from us (i.e. less ad hom etc etc etc). It’s not unreasonable to read that the way I did, however limited your intent. My point with that post was people (myself included) might be reacting to SC’s posts and your clarifications etc poorly precisely because they resemble (wrongly or rightly) bad criticism. Sometimes (rightly or wrongly) it’s hard to see good criticism when one is used to a sea of bad.
If I overstepped the mark, well you already know I’ll apologise, but I really don’t think I did.
[meta]
Louis,
You mean ‘led’, I know.
(I might be wrong when inferring passion, here)
[erratum]
I pasted twice.
(Obviously!)
John John John John John,
Now you know I can’t admit error on the internet, right? That would be bad.
Louis
P.S. But you’re write.
cicely,
I believe the correct plural is confetuses.
rorschach,
Sorry.
Audley,
AHHHHH THE CHOSEN ONE MOVES!!!!!!!!! SOON THE TIME WILL BE UPON US!!!!!! PREPARE THE SACRIFCE OF TWO GOATS AND ONE MAN CALLED BOB!!!!
(Congratulations)
Louis
Why sorry ? I just choose to stay out of them these days…Some folks might still walk away from reading it having learned something.
There is a site called dailysciencefiction.com, where you can register for a newsletter,and they send you a new sci fI story every day.
Audley,
Belated congrats! On top of other, even more belated congrats!
rorschach
Ah… sorry for being so eloquent and insightful, of course!
‘Tis, I read that comment from Crommunist as a friendly poke, trying to say that sure, you act like you don’t care, but were the first to notice that he was back (presumably from watching the blog a lot to see when he’d post again). Maybe came off a little clunky, but I didn’t see it as a chastisement at all.
I just turned 39 myself. It would be interesting to see a graph of the distribution of the ages of people who post on FTB, and see if there are differences between the blogs at all.
For the first time in months, I am entirely a jour with TET.
I feel like Sysyphus at the top of his hill.
My brother turned 40 day before yesterday. My little brother. Next thing you know I’ll have a vasectomy.
Quoderatdemonstrandum,
It will not last. It can never last.
Mwah ha. Mwah ha ha ha. Mwah ha aha ha hahahahahahahaahahahahaaaaa!
Louis
Just a bit of datum, I am 46.
45
#500+9, Louis
Thanks for sharing that.
My twenty-eight years feel light and easy, but I’m truly looking forward to my thirties because it took me until my mid-twenties to get my own personal clusterfuck sorted out (even a little). Plus, I am really interested in seeing who my kids grow up to be and I want to tell people to get off my lawn. (At thirty-seven I will have an eighteen-year-old and at forty I will have a second one. Like I said, my early twenties were quite the clusterfuck.)
Louis,
Look, I have a new system for staying on top of TET. All I had to do was ignore work for the company I run and which is my sole source of income, stop speaking with my lovely spouse who I don’t deserve at the best of times, neglect my delightful child and her once in a lifetime first developmental accomplishments like turning over and my devoted dog hasn’t had a walk since Sunday. Friends, obviously, had to go overboard.
If I just keep doing those things I can totally stay on top of TET.
Could you do me a favor, Louis? In the meantime, could you maybe stop bringing up all of these bad/wooish arguments you’ve encountered? As I said earlier, I think it has a well-poisoning effect; I also think that having this constantly in your mind because you keep talking about it will make it more difficult to assess the arguments fairly and open-mindedly. And it’s a bit insulting to me to see people thinking that I would be making such arguments, when I haven’t had a pattern of that. (Marcia Angell takes these arguments seriously, and it would be fairly hard to justify suspecting her of being a wooist.) If you’ve read the materials and think they’re wooish arguments then, I won’t mind your saying so and explaining why.
…AND ONE MAN CALLED BOB!!!!
As long as it’s Bob and not Robert I’m with this.
stupid no l in my blockquote tag grumble grumble
Jennifer, I am not sure that raising two kids can leave you light and easy. (Please note, not a criticism.)
Also, I am happy to see a newcomer incorporating “bitch” in her moniker. I used to do that. “Vile Bitch” was one of my favorites, a fine godbotherer called me that after one of my typical exchanges with one of them.
quoderatdemonstrandum,
A very workable system.
Have you also considered moving your computer and fridge into the bathroom and sitting on the toilet? You can eat, drink and excrete as necessary, never once having to move from the screen.
If the whole shebang can be moved to your mother’s basement (or that of your nearest available relative or next of kin) so she/he/they can ferry fodder to and fro, and as it’s a basement you can easily seal windows to prevent unfortunate intrusion from things like fresh air and sunlight.
Also, have you considered taking up hardcore raiding in World of Warcraft? It has the same effect. (I jest somewhat)
Louis
Well, the kid-raising doesn’t leave me light and easy (although I do not yet have primary custody of my eight-year-old, which will probably soon no longer be the case), but it sure as hell is entertaining and rewarding if you’re so inclined. If I could change anything, I would have the exact same two children, both five years later so that I could provide them with better resources early on and so that I could have time to figure things out, but life is really good for me right now so I’m not bugged.
Well, heartbreaking and soul-destroying as it is, I have been called a bitch many a time in my life, and I have finally managed to lift the neverending vale of tears and just do it for everyone else. (I had a friend on Facebook who told me that I should just get “Aww, someone called me a bitch!” on a t-shirt already.)
Leeroy Jenkins!
Sorry, it had to be done.
52.
And now I must limp to the shop to get groceries.
My parents are both only 19 years older than me as well. It’s a little odd sometimes when I realize a lot of the people I hang out with at work are the same age as my parents. :p
They not only were the young parents in their cohort, they then also got to be the old ones – my little brothers just graduated from high school last week. My poor mother had several periods of angst every time she would go to a parent-teacher conference for them and the teacher was someone I had gone through school with. At the graduation, my dad was chatting up the guy next to him, they realized they had graduated from the same high school within a couple of years of each other, and the guy said “So, you’re here for your grandkids?” My dad was all “HAHAHAHAHA no.”
39 in six months
Good luck in getting primary custody.
(Avoiding snarking on what a MRA would say about this.)
No kids but I have a lot of nieces and nephews so I get to see them grow. It can be interesting. I also live with one of them, eight years old. He can be a real kick.
I just wish he would stop singing I’m Sexy And I Know It.
Carlie: Yeah, it’s really weird when there are things like birthday parties and, although I really like the other parents, they are largely ten years older than us. (My husband signed on for this, where I stumbled upon it in a series of poor personal choices and the remarkably good fortune to have awesome children.) What is weirder is that age gaps get smaller as you get older, and there are much greater odds that we’ll be able to be besties with the kids since we’re so stupidly close in age. Some would qualify us as belonging to the same generation. (What. No.) There was a chance that we were going to have another one at a safer, later age, but with the prospect of my son coming to live with us we have cut the baby train off, so we’re going to stick to being the ridiculously young parents.
Still, I remember enrolling in the seventh grade and talking to another girl whose mother was twenty-seven. As in, one year younger than I am now. As in, how did she do it. So many props, and hope that she got to achieve her goals in life anyway.
There are benefits to having them young, too. My friends having kids in their 40s do have a lot more resources, but they’re also still getting up several times a night with diapers and crying and apparently catherine wheels of poop and whatnot, while mine have hit that mostly self-sufficient stage and can now do chores that are actual help rather than training. I empathize so much with that glassy-eyed stare the parents of toddlers have, all while thanking my stars that I’m well past that stage. (apologies to everyone still in that stage)
No you don’t. That shit will put you in your mothers basement relying on only caffeine and sugar and stale pizza for sustenance and where even the slightest ray of sunlight will burn a hole into your soul.
I’ve seen it happen, it ain’t pretty.
When I lived in a single room apartment in the University’s student village, I could reach the refrigerator sitting on the toilet. I certainly considered the possibility of switching the handedness of the refrigerator door, but I recall it wasn’t possible with that model.
The first time I met Cynthia PlasterCaster (Yes. The one and only PlasterCaster. Look it up if you have to.) she was singing along with Jon Langford at one of his shows on a Mekons song. I soon realized she was my mother’s age and was trying to imagine her knowing, let alone liking, the Mekons.
Shit, I cannot imagine her taking casts of penises.
(Odd digression.)
I am 28.
Oh yeah. I flipped out a bit three years ago when I realized that when my parents were that age, I was going to college. Really raised my respect levels for them, and it’s helped me understand a lot more of what contributed to the way they were as parents.
I’m the young parent in my kids’ cohort, too. Where I grew up I had kids really comparatively late (many started in their teens), but where I am now the general setup is to have them later, so I’m easily 5-10 years behind the majority of the other parents. Fuckin’ cohorts, how do they work? :)
Janine, HGM
When she is older and we are in space, there are very few things I will put my daughter through the airlock for but that’s one of them.
SC,
That’s a reasonable point. I’ll do my best. I’m not trying to poison the well, and as you say I could easily be doing that inadvertently, I’m just trying to explain why eyes may roll in as innocent a way as possible.
Hence why I chose feminism as an analogy btw. We all know there are good criticisms of some aspects of some feminist ideas (delivered from within feminism as it happens), but this is cutting edge stuff, not the endless feminism 101 that has to be rehashed ad nauseum here. We’re used to MRAs here, not (to pick my go to feminist) Germaine Greer. That doesn’t mean Germs (or her intellectual equal) is absent in the commentariat.
I freely confess I am not used to external criticism of the pharma industry (to name one example) being very good (in terms of being sufficiently informed to deal with the real problems). Some of it is great, but the bulk is drivel. This is the extent of the analogy I made.
It might be the reason you receive undeserved pushback. Just like the bulk of critical “thought” we get about feminism here is MRA derived (and I use “thought” with great trepidation and double scare quotes), the majority of the anti-med stuff people like Dianne and myself encounter is similarly nonsense. None of that precludes good criticism, but it does disguise it, and it might explain WHY people are initially resistant to criticism.
And I’m certainly not trying to insult you! Don’t worry about my commenting affecting my reading btw. I was trying to explain pushback and the difficulties surrounding the issues, not predispose anyone, myself included, to a particular view. If my mentioning the shittiness of a large number of critics’ claims does that in your opinion, well sorry but I think that’s a little over sensitive. Good science is good science regardless of the source. Don’t we all know this yet? Can I say it’s a bit insulting of you to assume some predisposition towards dismissal on my part? After all you have no idea what kind of scientist I am with respect to my integrity.
I jest I jest! My point is we can all find insinuations we don’t like if we look for them. Just take me as someone well disposed to consider your arguments as dispassionately as possible, and who also encourages the same in others. And I don’t exactly have a history of doing differently.
All of this is tangential discussion, a meta chat about the situation we find ourselves in, not the meat of the subject. I think anyone who matters is more than aware of that.
Louis
Carlie: Yeah, it’s just that I would have still been well within my prime if I had waited a while, and it would have been much better for both of them. (For example, probably fewer custody battles, but you know.) My five-year-old has been little affected by that because things have been stable since she can remember, but my son is probably going to be permanently emotionally scarred by how unstable his childhood has been. We’re working to fix that now, but it’s going to take a lot of therapy and loving care and trust-building for that. We owe him a huge apology, and he’s about to get years’ worth, but there really is no making up for a lot.
As for the toddlers, I loved having toddlers while mine were toddlers, but I wouldn’t go back to that. The more capable of communicating they become, the better things get, and the more interesting they get. Toddlers are best to deal with when they are someone else’s and they are well-behaved, and you can give them back when it’s time.
(In re: MRAs: I totally just finished a twenty-page paper about the Fathers’ Rights Movement. It’s not pretty. As a noncustodial parent, I was howling in frustration the whole time because MRAs and FRAs and the whole kit and kaboodle, they have good points, but then they return to, “I don’t want the patriarchy to hurt women AND men! I just want it to hurt women!”)
Rev BDC, #42,
I played WoW, I don’t mind confessing, I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I tried raiding, and the time commitment…phew! Sod that for a lark. I haven’t touched the game in months, and won’t again. That is something that takes a LOT of time. Some of the raiders I knew had well over a YEAR of real time clocked in game. A FUCKING YEAR! And these were not uber hard hard hard core folks.
{shudder}
Louis
Dude. You’re still doing it.
SC,
LOL okay okay I’ll do BETTER!
Louis
Birthdays are depressing. I already need to actively think on my age when people ask me. Getting goddamn nowhere stuck in this hellhole cycle, so another birthday going by without any change is like getting punched by reality.
When I’m 35, little one will be 18. Same age difference between me and my mother.
HAHAHAHA. Omfg I can totally see that. I’m so glad my child hasn’t pick it up from those stupid commercials. She started singing the Peanut Butter Jelly time song because of the Lunchable commercial and everyone told her no immediately. XD
I’m sorry for doing a whinge dump, you have been warned so skip it if you wish.
I’ve gotten my master’s degree in math in September. I’m currently doing a shitty temporary job – surveys (or getting daily yelled at and generally humiliated by strangers). I can’t find a job.
NOw, our government has started this fine new measure for young people with no work experience. It’s training without employment – a one year contract under which you get that valuable one year experience. Instead of the employer, the government pays you 1600kn monthly (about 260$) and pays for your pension benefits.
Main problem (besides working for peanuts) : I can’t break the contract. If I do, I have to pay back the money. It’s little when I get it, but paying it back… So, for a year, I basically can’t look for a real job.
And I don’t know what to do now. If I get a real job a couple of months into this one, I could pay it back. But later into the year… I don’t know.
It’s just such a shitty situation.
And I already feel like a failure. And I know I’m basically in a good situation because my parents can help me and I still live with them, but I can’t keep this up forever.
So, I’m probably going to apply (there is a ton of these offers, some of them even for mathematicians, because of course everyone wants people to work for them for free), but it’s all so… fucked.
Sorry, it’s just that everything is so very shitty and I feel like don’t actually have a choice. And I’m going to work for nothing, probably only gaining experience in making coffee. They’re totally using us and expect us to be grateful.
Ive been sitting in the hotel bar by the river for the last 4 hours, and apart from skyping with my dad in Germany and figuring out how to finally kill the spell checker on this tablet, I have only managed to produce a rant about FtB, Kylie Sturgess, the treatment of women in atheism/skepticism and life in general on my blog. It’s nice to be hated. There are just some people in this world that I want to be hated by, because they are so wrong, and fucking things up for everyone, and I want to point it out to them. And good friends or allies are those who will point out to me that and when I am wrong. That’s how it should work.
My children know of Parry Gripp. Once that happens, you might as well kiss your brain goodbye. *
*disclaimer: I like Parry Gripp. But I got really tired of hearing about waffles.
Numad:
Thanks! :)
Louis:
I’m carrying the Chosen One now? Like the Highlander?
THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE.
Age: I’m 30 (whee) and by the time Darkfetus pops out, I’ll be 31. Of course I think this is the perfect age to have a kid. ;)
Rorschach: Precisely. Precisely! The kinds of people who call women bitches are generally the ones I want to call me a bitch, so I might as well go for broke. Who needs the affection of some people?
And, yeah, on the related note, WTF is happening on Kylie’s blog? I just glanced over because the title of the post was interesting, and it’s a big “all this talk of harassment is scaring the women away!” post, complete with denial that rape apology in the forums has anything to do with the public image.
Ugh.
Yeah i spent some time playing a few of those games. Realized exactly what kind of time I was wasting on them and stopped. I know a few who didn’t. Let’s just say things haven’t turned out spectacularly for them. Unless you measure it by virtual Character levels, monster kills and shiny Armor.
Aw, I made that joke way back at the Quickening! (pout)
Oh, I’m sorry, Beatrice. That does suck. Wish I knew what to say.
Jennifer – the fun part is after toddlerhood, when they start really molding their personality. Here, child, watch Doctor Who! It’s great. :)
Seriously, one of the best parenting decisions we’ve ever made is just not having TV. We have A TV, and we have a playstation and DVD player, but we don’t have cable or satellite or even local and we couldn’t miss it less. The sheer amount of advertising that she misses is worth it alone.
This isn’t to do the whole superiority-complex thing, since everyone’s going to do it however, and I grew up none the worse for wear for having TV around, but it makes life much easier as far as not having her know what pretty much any product is and not getting the worst of the gendered advertising in her head. Because, is it just me or is advertising much more retrograde than it was when I was a kid? (I was born in 1984, and the heyday of the commcercials I saw was between probably 1989 and 1994.)
As to TV, I was out of the picture after the first year, so my son grew up watching(well, perceiving) the Simpsons all day, every day, nothing I could do about it. The first word he ever said was “again”. I tried to read and draw and play with him on the days I had him, but kids are not uninfluenced by TV or video games, so nowadays when he is 5, I have to really put my foot down to get any reading or keyboard playing or kicking the ball in, before he inevitably asks for the playstation to be fired up to play some cursed Ben 10 game.
Sorry Carlie! My memory just isn’t what it used to be. :p
I was misidentified as my son’s grandfather too, at his karate class; and I wasn’t yet 50! (Now 58.)
Thanks. I just had to get it off my chest.
I already know it’s something I’ll just have to do and hope that I’ll have more luck the year after. I just wish I didn’t have to be supported by my parents at 25 (26 in a couple of months). I’m grateful that I have that safety net. Some of my friends don’t and they can’t live of that paycheck, so I’m lucky.
@Jennifer:
The only thing I sort of miss about TV is live stuff, but if I want to see a game or something I’ll just go to a bar or the clubhouse in the apartment complex. I have a Netflix account, so I’m happy and can watch what I want, when I want.
Rev BDC,
Which are the only true measures of a man* I find.
Louis
* Because obviously a) there are no female gamers at all and simultaneously b) all female gamers are crap. Those things are SO true at the same time and in no way contradictory.
Katherine: Yeah, we just get NFL Rewind (we’re a football-loving family) and catch Maddow via podcast and we’re solid. Netflix will probably be in the offing soon, though.
I have to say that I’m also relieved not to have most of the abominable fare that they call children’s programming around, too. I’m not saying that it was substantially better when I was a kid–I had little patience for most of it then, too, but that may be my only-child-ness–but sweet jeebus most of it sucks now. They think kids are fucking idiots.
“They think kids are fucking idiots”
Have you listened to Rosemary Church on CNN recently ?
Rorschach: Nope, not having the teevee to do so. What am I missing?
Jennifer,
Yeah, we’re going to drop our cable subscription* once Darkfetus is born– I have no problem relying on dvds and Netflix and whatnot ‘cos that gives me so much more control, you know?
Currently, I have no freaking idea what advertising that’s aimed at kids is like, but I can take a guess that it’s terrible.
* ::sniffle:: Adios, Game of Thrones! ::sniffle::
Beatrice,
it was a link limit issue, not moderation, Ive fixed it now. You make good points, thank you.
HI there
You’re too fast for me these days..
Jennifer
Hi there from the middle of my own personal clusterfuck ;)
I wished I had sorted some of that shit out BC (before children), but I also think it wouldn’t have been possible because it was this exact moment and situation that made it blow up (and I’m glad it did).
And yes, the one thing that really, really bothers me down deep is that I know how much everything will hurt my children. I know they’re in a situation out of which there’s no painless way.
They will. get. hurt. badly.
Oh, and at age 37 I’ll have a 9yo and a 7yo :)
And I’ll have more than a tiny job and a real degree (hopefully)
beatrice
Yeah, politicians, they’re not that smart.
But I’d say keep looking for a real job. I know the prospect of paying back 2-3k is frightening, but if you lose out on a decent job that would feed you as a mathematician for the next 10 years it’s worth it.
*hugs*
rorschach,
Thanks, I should have waited before snarking.
Giliell: Yeah, that’s the kicker. Everyone tells you that you shouldn’t have kids very young because it will fuck your your life and your goals, which is all well and good (although, seriously, I wasn’t going to college until I got some things sorted out anyway, and my kids don’t adversely impact my grades or attendance now), but that doesn’t mean jack shit to a teenager.
What they should say is that your kids will possibly have to live with the consequences of your fuckups, and they are mighty indeed. That probably won’t mean much to teenagers, either, but that would have meant more to me. (This is not to say that the future of any given teenager is or should be unimportant to the people around them, so much as it is to say that it is hard to conceptualize your future when you’re very young.)
Although I will also say that, given the example that you waited significantly longer than I did, we need a better safety net for parents period. A lot of what made things so terrible for me was economic, and I don’t think that anyone’s kids should suffer just because they made bad decisions and/or simply had a run of bad luck. That’s what I don’t get about conservatives who claim to care about children and then slash the social programs that help keep them safe and then blame the parents for not working hard enough and then blame the parents for not parenting enough and…and…and…
I mean, I know they’re in a disingenuous space; I get that. I just can’t get it, how you can wish suffering on someone’s kids.
Giliell, thanks.
Politicians’ answers to criticism : I’ve worked for free too when I was young, I didn’t even get as much as you will, and I worked like that since I got of my mother’s tit (when they weren’t walking to school uphill both ways, of course).
Jennifer
I hate, hate, hate this mindset that it’s OK to let kids suffer for the poor decissions/problems of their parents. Sure, society can’t help with everything. The pain my kids will feel is that their grandma is drinking herself into her grave and I am really fortunate in having social support and a husband with an income that lasts.
But yes, if my problems were differnt, many people will tell me that I shouldn’t have had the kids, as if even if that were true would help shit.
So, see you again tonight (my night)
Also as if I hadn’t linked and subsequently referred to an article that linked to and discussed (amongst other stories) this.
Sigh. Maybe I should just let this drop and move on to discussion of age or whatever, but I just can’t leave this alone.
Seriously, SC, your big evidence is a single case from 1955?! Things have changed a bit since 1955, you know. Blacks can use the same water fountains and the same White House as whites. Leukemia is no longer an automatic death sentence. The standard treatment of a heart attack is no longer give some morphine and wait to see if the person dies or not. And, strangely, enough, the clock has not stood still in psychiatry either. I know you said, “amongst other stories” but you chose to present this as your best case, so I assume the others are of similar quality.
(It bothers me that the question is framed in terms of what should be done with this hypothetical person by unnamed others, who are supposedly “us.”)
The person described is very near to catatonia. He would-did-find it very difficult to ask for help. If you saw someone having a seizure on the street, would you just step around them, assuming that if they wanted help they’d call 911?
So far you have made absolutely zero suggestions for helping people with psychiatric problems. You aren’t willing to come out and say that you think they should just snap out of it, but that seems to be the implication.
BTW, the person described is based on a real person. In the end, his friends didn’t agree that he should be left alone to rot and took him to the ER. Where, surprisingly, he was not met by people with unsterilized ice picks and lobotomized, but instead asked three specific questions, which he answered with “yes, no, and no” respectively. The questions were: “Do you feel like you have a problem and want help?” “Do you feel like you might hurt yourself?” “Do you feel like you might hurt anyone else?”
If he’d said no to the first question, he’d be sent out with a statement that he could come back if he changed his mind. As it was, he was treated as an outpatient, started returning to a more normal state of mind (he described it not as feeling better, but feeling more), and eventually was able to return to school and finish his degree. We’re in contact occasionally. Thanks for saying that he wasn’t worth trying to help.
OK, I’m going to step away from TET at comment 77 as a fully caught up Threadizen. I’m just going to do some parenting and spousing and take la famille to Hampstead Heath for a picnic.
If you fuckers [1] put up 500 posts by the time I come back and threadrupt me again, I’m going to be seriously put out.
Now play nicely, don’t fight, don’t feed the trolls, no pharmacology, privilege is straight out, no Dawkins, no elevator “pick up artists”, no grudge matches, let the newbies live. . . oh who am I kidding, see you in 500 posts.
[1] in the affectionate meaning of the term
the majority of the anti-med stuff people like Dianne and myself encounter is similarly nonsense. None of that precludes good criticism, but it does disguise it, and it might explain WHY people are initially resistant to criticism.
The problem is that there is a sinister pharma conspiracy but it’s not at all what people think. I’ve only seen it from one side, so maybe my criticisms are off too, but here’s the problem I see in pharma: Not pushing drugs on everyone, but unwillingness to provide drugs to everyone.
I’ll give you an example of what I mean: Ludicrous Pharma has an experimental drug that they want to get approved for common disease A. It probably works in A, but there are a lot of drugs that treat A. But lots of (rich) people have A and Ludicrous wants in on that market. In the mean time, independent evidence suggests that the drug might also work on rare disease B. B currently has one single disease altering therapy which many people can not tolerate. The mouse studies on the X drug in B are impressive: the mice live twice as long and don’t exhibit symptoms.
So people interested in disease B ask Ludicrous for their product to use in a phase I/II trial in B. Note that no money is being asked for, just permission to use the human ready drug. They refuse. Why? Because if their drug does something bad in the setting of B, a rare disease found more in poor than rich people, then it might jeopardize FDA approval for A, a common disease found in wealthy people. So, a potentially life extending drug not being developed because it might (in theory) jeopardize the drug’s development in a more profitable, but less socially useful, setting.
Other Parent of Spawn and I have undoubtedly fucked up in many ways, but possibly the one that hurts most (at the moment, at least) is that although we naturally tried to avoid neglecting the needs of the NT one in order to struggle with the needs of the non-NT one we failed. We did put some burdens on the elder and NT child that we are not putting on the younger and non-NT one.
DaughterSpawn still reckons we count as (mostly) cool parents, amazingly enough, but I think the whole Special Educational Needs clusterfuck (fuckawful shitty bureaucracy + (lack of) money + “challenging behaviour” in earlier years, though no longer) has left a mark on her as well as everyone else. :(
We were slightly late-ish parents; not ready for the responsibility earlier, but we might perhaps have had more energy reserves! Bof, that’s just a might-have-been ::shrugs::
Ok, I have a question. My cousin had a terrible disease and died when I was 13. I have no idea what it is since they didn’t tell us kids at the time. I don’t have contact and will never contact my father’s side of the family again. I was wondering if I described my cousin’s symptoms if someone could point me in the right direction to finding out what it might have been. I’m not getting any luck with googling and searching around since I don’t know the proper terms for her symptoms.
Not knowing has been bugging me a lot lately.
I was wondering if I described my cousin’s symptoms if someone could point me in the right direction to finding out what it might have been.
Probably not. If it were internet diagnosable you’d probably have gotten it by now. But you could describe them anyway just in case.
I see I fucked up tenses in my original comment. I don’t have the job yet and am not yet under that contract. But I will have to go for it soon, this temporary job lasts only for another month.
Dianne,
Whilst that’s certainly a valid criticism of Ludicrous Pharma prior to Drug X’s approval, it’s the reverse case after approval. When Ludicrous will do everything in its power to find “novel uses” for X and thus get patent (read: profit) extensions.
Also, the chances that drug X will do something bad to the population of B sufferers and not the population of A sufferers are very small. Especially if A and B are very different diseases (in terms of drug target). Hence why there is a very serious amount of regulatory effort and scientific campaigning to get extensive clinical trial data released in different ways and more (easily) publicly available.
The problem is, I’m afraid, even worse than you suggest. Take something like Chagas disease. There is effort to find a useful chemotherapy for it but compared to, say, the effort to find useful chemotherapeutic agents for Type 2 diabetes, it’s a drop in the ocean. The research effort doesn’t even get off the ground more times than it does.
Interestingly, mental health drugs are a real casualty here. One of the consequences of the recent economic downturn is pharma companies shedding their neurological/psychiatric medicine efforts. Not because there is no need for chemotherapy here, but because these things are sat on a high shelf so to speak. Getting “druggable” molecules that cross the blood/brain barrier, survive the liver well, do a useful biochemical job and aren’t toxic as hell is not a joke. It’s a much finer line to walk than, say, a drug for atherosclerosis or rheumatoid arthritis.
Louis
Wading in carefully, but part of that could also be just elder v. younger. We have an elder NT and a younger non-NT, but I do think that some of our behavior towards the elder is simply age-related – when I stop and look at it, a lot of my reasoning for what I ask(ed) the elder one to do is “because you’re older”, not “because non-NT needs you to do it”. There has been probably more than the proper share of “I need you to do it because my hands are full with non-NT”, but there’s only so much you can do. One little silver lining is that our elder NT is very kind and patient, and I think that has a lot to do with the years he spend as a child ending up in the role of non-NT’s interpreter and buffer at school and in social situations. Heck, he was non-NT’s interpreter to us, their parents, for a really long time because he was more attuned to his brother than we were, especially before we got the non-NT diagnosis and suddenly all those behaviors made sense.
57, no kids.
One of my high-school chums was a great-grandparent before their 50th birthday.
Starstuff re conference,
Hire 50 gamers to stress-test the wireless.
When Ludicrous will do everything in its power to find “novel uses” for X and thus get patent (read: profit) extensions.
Sigh. Not even. I had a similar experience with another drug company where dangling a patent extending indication in front of their noses didn’t get them to bite. Admittedly, I was asking for funding, not just drug, but still. Also it’s a drug with a bad rep (partially deserved) so I think they want to bury it and pretend they never made the thing.
Realpolitik of drug companies. It’s enough to make me wish that it was as simple as a vast conspiracy to drug us all to the eyeballs and take all our money.
Random question Louis: Do you have experience in drug development, specifically neuro/psych drugs? I’ve got a completely off the wall question about psych drug side effects.
Dianne,
Ahhhhh funding. Well nothing makes a pharma company pucker up more tightly than a freshly welded clam is a funding request!
I will confess the potential medical extensions will usually have been well covered in the original patent. It’s one of the reasons pharma patents are huge and make so little (scientific) sense. They are written deliberately to cover further exploitation of a specific drug target (the really tough thing to exploit) and to protect a class of compounds for that use.
Louis
Dianne,
That’s what I am currently doing.
Louis
Ok, question for you then: A lot of psychiatric drugs seem to have weight gain as a side effect, including tricyclics, newer antipsychotics, and possibly SSRIs.Is this a specific effect of the drugs in question or does forcibly screwing with brain chemistry trigger cortisol and subsequent non-specific weight gain?
I told you it was a screwy question.
Hi carlie! Yes, some of it is undoubtedly “just” elder vs younger. Our ElderSpawn has been/is really great about it most of the time, but I am aware that we’ve imposed/[been forced to impose] on her in ways I feel are “unfair” sometimes, and just generally more than we would otherwise have done, you know?
But they’re both wonderfulamazingbrilliant in my eyes – of course they are! :) – I think I’m sort of venting feelings of guilt about it, at least in part, eh!
Ahhhhh funding. Well nothing makes a pharma company pucker up more tightly than a freshly welded clam is a funding request!
It was only a little request. Their bottom line would barely notice it at all. I’m sure they could fund it by shaking out the couches in the executive restrooms.
Yeah, they didn’t buy it either.
rorschach #55 – looks like you’ve been productive on your blog! Your travels have agreed with you, I think. :) Loved the Noah’s Ark photo and remarks – classic. :)
My “big evidence”? What the hell are you even talking about, dianne?
I happened to note that from the several stories mentioned in that article because it resembled in some sense your hypothetical, and because the person whose case it is is now a leader of a large activist organization that focuses, now, in 2012, on coerced and nonconsensual drugging of adults and especially children. This is not an argument that things are exactly as they were at the time he was in college, but the disease and drug models and the human rights violations continue.
No, they have newer drugs now. They’re as ineffective and harmful as the old ones, and the disease model just as invalid. You might recall that that was what the discussion was about.
Really, I have no idea what you’re on about here. I don’t know what “best case” you’re referring to or what you’re thinking it was supposed to be evidence of. Your question was odd and irrelevant, and I was simply trying to share some information.
First, that’s not true. Second, it’s totally irrelevant. As others have tried to get you to understand, I don’t have to provide answers for all or any individual case to show evidence – which, if you would bother to (in your case, try to) read about the subject, you’d see comes from numerous lines – that the drugs are ineffective and harmful and that the brain-disease model underlying their use is wrong.
That’s it, dianne. I’m done responding to you. Those are outrageous insinuations, and I’ve said nothing that implies that I think any of that. I have said the opposite, as have the materials I’ve linked to. At this point, I think you’ve shown yourself pretty much incapable of reading for comprehension on this topic, and you’ve also shown yourself to be an utter asshole who would say such a thing about me because of my criticisms. It’s appalling what you’ve just written, and I’ll just leave it there as a testament to the sorts of vicious and absurd lengths people will go to to avoid thinking critically about this.
Louis, sadly, my attempt at providing a second target flopped. Next time my friend, next time.
This a follow-up to my previous post about voter suppression tactics.
Republican Governors and legislators have made significant inroads with state-level voter suppression campaigns aimed at likely Democratic or independent voters. Last night, Rachel Maddow presented a segment in which she placed the current voter suppression campaigns in historical context. If you only have time to watch one roundup of the Republican assault on democracy, this the one to watch.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#47608175
@63. jenniferforester :
Pretty sure I remember using them at uni. Oh well, fair enough then.
@ 62. Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform :
Well chyaaar-ming. (eye roll.) As you’d expect I disagree. I don’t know how smart you are but I suspect I know a lot more than you do about a lot of issues and areas. Care to go head to head in some independently assessed fair test of astronomical knowledge or Jewish / Israeli history or space exploration history or cricket or Formula One motorsport knowledge for instance? Of course knowing stuff isn’t the only aspect of intelligence and I’m sure there are areas of life where you know more than me too. When it comes to the problem solving and Emotional Quotient factors of intelligence I suspect I could also give you a run for your money.
But, okay, setting that aside in spite of the evidence otherwise, what are you using your supposedly superior intelligence for, Ms Daisy Cutter? Curing cancer? Rocket science? World peace? Not that I can see from where I sit. No, you’re just commenting on a blog insulting people and being obnoxious and opinionated. Not that there’s anything wrong with that but yeah. If you are some kind of genius, I think you could put your skills to better use.
If not, maybe you could be, oh I dunno, a bit less arrogant and nicer to others who haven’t given you any reason to attack them maybe? Or not, up to you, natch.
Are they? Funnily enough that’s not how I’ve ever perceived them.
“Firstly” is simply a way of stating the first in a series of points, not sure why that should be considered pompous exactly. As for ‘redundant’, well, it makes the point that that is what you are doing and shapes the expectations of the argument to come. It says you’ve got more reasons and you can expect a secondly and thirdly and fifthly or however many before a finally. It’s just one way of verbally formatting an argument and helping it flow.
As for the phrasing “I, for one” I find it is more tentative and arguably humble than pompous but maybe that’s just me. By saying this you are implying, firstly, that this is something that you think others also think and thus are not claiming originality and, secondly, also implied in the same phrasing that there is the probability that others disagree in that others do have different views. Finally, that phrasing is making it very apparent that you have shifted into personal opinion rather than statement of fact or statistic or merely boldly asserting that something is the case.
Now I guess there are alternatives, “personally” or IMHON* or “this is just my view but” are the phrase equivalent of synonyms but what’s wrong with that? Other than mere personal stylistic dislike and maybe the argument that they’ve been over-used which is hardly those phrase’s fault!?
So doesn’t this in essence just amount to style and personal preference? In which case why the intense hate-on?
@64. skepticalmath :
Well, okay, if that’s what your maths professors think. All due to respect to them, but oh wait, they’re professors of maths not English. Now if a biologist told me that stars are lumps of burning coal I just may want a second opinion from people with expertise in just a slightly more relevant field! What do English teachers if there are any here have to say on these I wonder?
+++++++++++++++++
* In My Humble Opinion Naturally
Dianne,
Quick and dirty answer:
It depends on the drug. There can be a lot of self neglect with (for instance) depression. Anything that alleviates this self neglect can cause weight gain. This “psychological” aspect of the weight gain (or loss, less common but it happens) is not my field, so I’ll leave that there.
Then there are “feedant” effects. People taking a wide variety of psych meds report increased appetite (particularly a shift towards carbs as it happens). This doesn’t appear to be “purely” psychological. Depending on the drug some insulin insensitivity might be noted. It’s not easy to deconvolute this effect from the effects of weight anyway.
For SSRIs (which have a ~25% chance of associated weight gain across the board) there’s no general rule, some drugs are have more weight gain associated than others even though they are ostensibly activating/blocking the same or similar targets.
Tricyclic antipsychotics have a positively correlated response (in terms of both length of treatment and dose) associated with weight gain, and the atypical antipsychotics tend to correlate more strongly with weight gain than the typical antipsychotics. The most weight gain associated antipsychotic drugs tend to be H1 antagonists, and there’s some work ongoing to explore H1 agonism as weight reduction therapy. So it’s more than likely there is something biochemical going on here. Medication switching has a good track record in helping to reduce the weight gain side effect whilst keeping other factors relatively constant.
Then you have something like lithium which can cause water retention (i.e a secondary physical effect of the drug) and hence “weight” gain. It also can act as an insulin mimic, thus increasing the chances of insulin tolerance and dyslipidemia. It’s not a very well understood process IIRC (mainly due to the lack of understanding about weight gain) despite lithium having been around forever and a day.
Since weight management is, biochemically, a complex interacting network of at least certain neurotransmitters, cytokines, and hormones interacting with the hypothalamus, especially the leptin and the tumor necrosis factor systems, it’s not a simple puzzle to unpick. Especially as many of these drugs are designed to “disrupt” neurotransmitters of various kinds.
The simple message is depending of the drug it can be all or none of these! I.e. purely psychological effects like self care, feedant/appetite effects like shifting preferences for food types or simple appetite, or genuine changes in weight management metabolism.
Any self respecting treatment schedule including chemotherapy for any psychiatric disorder should include dietary advice as standard. But then we return to the problem of decent mental health programmes that tackle these complex issues from more than the “here’s a pill” standpoint. I.e. expensive and complex interventions.
Louis
Dianne,
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Sorry, sorry, but blood….stone….oh I laughed! I’m evil I know.
I used to work for Pfizer. A company that bought an executive jet for its CEO and sundry execs at the same time as restricting R and D spending and closing R and D sites.
It probably made tax sense. In terms of morale and morality…
Louis
StevoR:
How about shutting up? You post a pissy whine about how baffling (and obviously irritating) you find other peoples’ opinions about certain phrases and you wonder why people say you’re hard of thinking. Real. Slow. For. You. — It looks dumb when you opine hard about how awful it is for other people to opine.
which, if you would bother to (in your case, try to) read about the subject, you’d see comes from numerous lines
This is rich, coming from someone who couldn’t be bothered to read the article she was commenting on. You never did read Harrow, just relied on your own favorite “expert’s” opinions of what s/he wrote.
I’m sorry it hurt your feelings, but your links have been universally useless as evidence. None of them have been to any site that even has pretensions of doing peer reviewed research or anything other than presenting anecdotes. It’s like arguing with an anti-vaxxer.
Whoops, apologies for failure to close a tag in post 100. It’s ALL blue. How pretty.
On another subject:
You can guess the rest of the story. Dude died over the weekend … from a rattlesnake bite.
Link.
@Just_A_Lurker :
If you want you can certianly try, far as Im concerned, but I can’t guarantee any acuracy. I’m not a doctor. Or medical expert of any kind. Did do first aid course some years ago but doubt that’ll help much.
But happy to try see what can be found if it might help if you’d like.
Oh, how I long for A Pill that would make redundant all this bullshit not eating of butter, eating of way too many vegetables, eating of not as many things per plate as I’d like and such. Come on Louis, get Papa Pharma on it!
Dhorvath, #99,
Yeah, get it right! ;-)
I think we should hold ourselves to higher standards next time. I blame me entirely.
{Puffs importantly on pipe}
Louis
I used to work for Pfizer. A company that bought an executive jet for its CEO and sundry execs at the same time as restricting R and D spending and closing R and D sites.
Pfizer, eh? Good to know…
Actually, virtually all the drugs I use are unique drugs made by a single company so a threat to go to the competitors is usually met with a disdainful laugh.
@106.Lynna, OM :
Do they still have the Darwin Awards these days? Coz that guy sounds like a prime candidate.
Condolences to his family & friends I guess but yeesh. Talk about predictable outcomes!
SC,
This is a very big claim, I hope you realise just how big. I’m actually looking forward to reading those books and seeing if they support this (they’re on my Kindle app on the phone now).
Hey, thinking purely selfishly, think of the millions I’ll be able to make/save developing/convincing companies to develop better drugs…
{Pause for hysterical laughter}
…yeah, that’s what I thought! ;-)
Louis
Mark Randall “Mack” Wolford was known all over Appalachia as a daring man of conviction. He believed that the Bible mandates that Christians handle serpents to test their faith in God — and that, if they are bitten, they trust in God alone to heal them.
I heard a similar story when I was in medical school. Don’t have the details any more so can’t verify it as true or false, but for what it’s worth…Couple belonging to evangelical sect that does snake handling were doing their usual snake handling one weekend when wife gets bitten. Husband refuses to take her to ER because god will heal her if he so chooses and if she dies she deserves it. Wife is not in agreement, tries to call ambulance, fails. Husband is charged with manslaughter. He says, “God will decide on my guilt” and gets out the snakes. God decided he was guilty.
Dianne,
My Pfizer days were a while ago now. I’m working in a much smaller company at the moment.
They were fun though. Very….different to anything else I’ve experienced.
Louis
Just means he didn’t have enough faith.
Rock out with your serpent out
Josh, #108,
Oh we have that already. It’s just being kept a secret by us pharma types because…erm just because all right?
It’s why we’re all so slim.
{looks down}
Scratch that last comment, I’ll get right on it.
Louis
I’m working in a much smaller company at the moment.
Oh, good, I was afraid you were working for Merck and I’ve been using them as my standard example of an evil drug company since they put out the faux journals a few years ago.
Okay, so, pet peeve here.
I work at a charity hospital, helping people with cancer. I regularly volunteer for events, help friends that literally put on breast cancer runs and such (unrelated to my job), go out on weekends with friends, go on dates, etc. I have my own apartment, I do my own laundry, work out 5 times a week, etc.
I’ve also been raiding in WoW since shortly after launch, am currently one of the top players of my class in the US (by certain rankings), and even played FFXI before WoW and, so, have about 10 years of MMOs behind me. I’ve probably got well over a year of time /played; I honestly haven’t checked recently.
A good friend online enrolled in college when we first met and now is getting his masters in game theory; he’s also tanked most for most of my raids and regularly volunteers at the VA (he’s a military buff). Another set of friends ran a lesbian bar and, I assure you, their gaming didn’t interfere with that onerous task; one of them was the raid leader for a guild and regularly multi-boxed (played multiple characters at the same time).
Fuck the gamer bashing. Seriously, how is this acceptable in this community?
@ Josh, Official SpokesGay says:
You first! Also why? What did I ever do / say to you to deserve that?
Which is different from that paragraph above .. *how* exactly?
I asked why the level of hatred for a couple of seemingly inoffensive phrases.
I never said that people aren’t entitled to their opinions.
Reading comprehension, Josh, Official SpokesGay. You seem to have a bit of a problem with it lately. As demonstrated here and elsewhere on FTB in past days.
I sympathize.
In my case I’ve just finished my (second) master’s degree a few weeks ago, I have tons of student loan debt, and I have to do another year of study before I can qualify as a barrister (one of the two legal professions in England). And I have no guarantee of a pupillage (paid training position) at the end of it. I’ve applied for several pupillages, and thus far had three rejections and one offer of interview. The level of competition is very intense, and I’m beginning to think I’ve gone in for the wrong line of work.
Unfortunately, things are looking grim in the graduate job market in Britain. I have many friends with degrees who are under-employed. (I don’t think the Tory government’s austerity policy is exactly helping. Being in the job market has made me steadily more left-wing.)
(I should add that I want to work in immigration and asylum law – primarily representing asylum-seekers – which is an area very heavily affected by recent cuts to legal aid, since it’s mostly reliant on public funding. So I may end up not being able to do what I really want to do.)
The most weight gain associated antipsychotic drugs tend to be H1 antagonists, and there’s some work ongoing to explore H1 agonism as weight reduction therapy.
H1 as in histamine? So how come I don’t lose weight every spring?
*hugs* to Walton. Are you settling in back at home ok?
Are we still doing misreadings?
I just saw an article called “Self-medication and homeostatic behavior in herbivores” and I swear it said “homeopathic behavior”.
I only continue to put up with this bullshit in the hope that there are people reading who aren’t lying, willfully ignorant assholes like dianne (there were in the past…and if I’ve forgotten, thanks, Mr Fire), but I’ve had enough.
NB. Wondering and asking why people think certain things is NOT the same as saying they can’t think ’em.
Nor is having a different opinion.
Interesting to say that – I lost about 20 pounds when I first went on prescription-strength antihistamines. Sadly, my body then seemed to acclimate to it and I gained it right back.
Richard Austin,
Good point. I apologise for my part in it. You’re right, it’s by no means a universal gamer experience. I found I couldn’t make it balance vs other aspects of life, that doesn’t mean others can’t.
I don’t, however, assume raider = basement dweller by any stretch of the imagination. I was using that as a humorous trope, but then why is it any less discriminatory a trope/joke than, say, camp gay man I can’t tell you. So it is. My bad.
Louis
Here’s what the war on women looks like in Afghanistan:
Parenting – so hard and yeah, you do fuck up, even with the best of intentions. Older/younger, NT/non-NT, boy/girl, each child’s specific personality, the socio-economic realities of the life you’re living now, the parental personalities and issues, not to mention that of extended family (Gilliel, we, too, have a parent, grandparent for my kids, with an alcohol and abuse problem. It’s the fucking pits, though luckily that person is out of our lives for now, but he’s trying to wriggle back in) – so many factors, so much space for fucking up. And then you try to lessen the impact.
Point in case: I have three kids, spaced rather closely together. When the last child was born (a boy) the two older kids (two girls) were 3 years and 10 months and 1 year 7 months respectively. At the time we didn’t know it but it turns out that our middle child is extremely sensitive and in need of a lot of extra coddling and special time. Like I said, at the time we didn’t know it so though I tried my utter best to not make her feel excluded and less loved and attentioned after the baby’s birth, she still got a knock there.
Also I know we’re putting too much responsibility on the oldest child. I know that, and I’m trying to make that better, but it’s hard because she’s such a *typical* first child, so serious and studious and loving the responsibility and the independence and being “big” that it’s hard to remember sometimes that she, too, needs space to just goof off and be a kid, even if we have to bring her attention to doing it (as in, sweetie, you really can go out an play, you don’t have to clean the room right now).
Then there’s the gender thing. Since we have two girls and a boy in that order, people happily presume that we just “kept trying” until we got The Boy. They very often do this in the hearing of our girls, in fact, with the old “good for you, you finally got it right (by producing a boy)” attitude always on display. While this couldn’t be further from the truth (all three were “oopsies”, not planned at all and we would have been delighted if Sonspawn was girl) it still creates this sense of being less-than in my girls. It can’t do anything but do that, and adding the fact that he’s the youngest and necessarily perceived to get more attention and coddling… such a difficult minefield.
So yeah. HARD work, deep rifts, etc.
Incidentally, we’ve also followed the no commercial tv route. Oh, we have a TV with a DVD player thingie (it’s one of those with a hard drive, so not really DVDs but you know what I mean) that gets used almost all the time, but we get to skip the commercials and the brunt of the gendering. (Right now they’re watching MLP, Kim Possible and Futurama and miscellaneous kiddy movies).
Age I am 30, soon to be 31. When my mother was this age, she already had a teenager. This, as carlie said, has given me such a huge insight into some of the issues I’ve had with her parenting growing up and much respect.
Like I said, our children weren’t planned but they weren’t unwanted either so it worked out well. I had the oldest at 23 but I feel that in our situation, this worked out for the best for out personal family since even now my energy is depleting at the speed of light and I was a rather mature 23 year old.
Support for parents (not just economical, but basic things like parenting lessons and childcare support): yeah, it sucks. I’ve often said that I’d be happy to contribute more tax if more of it can go to a.) payment for stay at home parents and b.) childcare support. Of course where I live that’s like asking for the moon, the sun and the pink unicorn – so many people don’t even have food to eat each day. But still, one day, one can hope.
World of Warcraft I totally play that. I’m not a hardcore player at all (lol, I haven’t even done an ICC yet), very casual player, and I don’t even play ever day, and I like the farming and easier dungeons best, and I find that I am able to limit my playing time mostly because I’m not like obsessed with a freaking game, but I play. As does my husband.
Also, my 7 year old and 5 year old each have their own toons that they play with – they are absolutely forbidden from interaction with other players but otherwise they basically run around and kill monsters and whatnot and love talking with us when we talk about the game. It’s awesome.
Dianne, #122,
Bacon wrapped antihistamines.
(Serious answer: depends on the histamine target, and weight alterations are a potential side effect of some antihistamine drugs. IIRC this was explored in the 90s to little effect and is being revisited now due to {corporate secret} reasons).
Louis
SteveoR @101:
I am a Writing and Rhetoric major, and have had to dedicate much of my time to eliminating wordiness, not to increasing it. Perhaps that is peculiar to me, but none of my professors have been fond of useless word-dumps.
QFT. Josh, I think I need this on a bumper sticker.
Haha, this is me, too. My choices are: life vs pharyngula because I am too inept to keep up with both.
This. And the presumption that only SC has the best interests of people with mental illness at heart. I found that hugely offensive, actually. That was the source of my pushback and the reason why I asked what she wished to see be the outcome of all this “why don’t you people care enough to read this stuff” posting.
I have read a shit ton of that stuff, SC – and I am confident that Louis, dianne and possibly several others with whom SC, Jadehawk and consciousness razor have taken issue have read plenty of it as well. Some of us – perhaps like you, perhaps not – also deal with the reality of living with, or trying to support people who are living with – these symptoms every day and astonishing as it may be most people doing this do give a shit about it. I resent the implication that people like me are either too stupid and lazy to learn about what may help or potentially harm someone we love or else we just don’t fucking care enough about our family members but just want a “magic pill” to make the symptoms go away (or drug our loved ones into a stupor, but hey who cares, right?) to make our lives simpler.
I don’t believe in magic pills, and I am pretty sure that other intelligent people here don’t either. The fucking nasty assumptions to the contrary – and the implication that anyone who even tries to work with what little we fucking have to deal with the real and not imaginary challenges and pain of mental illness are closed-minded, ignorant lapdogs for Big Pharma™ and The Medical Establishment™ – are insulting, offensive and just plain wrong.
I also don’t give a damn day to day whether the symptoms are the disease or if there is some other level of understanding missing – isn’t that the truth for all human suffering? We try to find the root cause, but we treat the symptoms because it is the symptoms which are making life a living hell. You are correct that many diagnoses are just a collection of symptoms – but that is not news. Science, doctors, and families knew 30 years ago that we only had a rough way to try to collect symptoms into some sort of diagnosis – that is not news! Which is why I asked: so what is your fucking point?
In for a penny, in for a pound….but please climb down off that cross, too, FFS.
I’m curious, Louis: If you read the materials and then come to the conclusion for whatever reason that I’m wrong or that the case against the model and drugs isn’t as strong as I think, will you feel that the responses here to my arguments have therefore been warranted? Do you think it’s fine to keep making these jokes and chatting with dianne while I’m being accused of being an uncaring person who wants to see others die unloved in the streets? Do you think it’s OK to expect me to return to this situation again in the future and try to discuss the subject calmly after having been attacked in this way?
(*Those are largely rhetorical.)
The snake-handling pastor could have been saved if prompt action had been taken. Instead, his flock took him to a friend’s house and waited for god to heal him. When things started looking really bad several hours later, they put out frantic calls for prayer on Facebook.
Sometime later paramedics were called. Snake-bitten pastor was pronounced dead at the hospital.
In other news, Idaho tries to one-up Utah in stupid moves related to liquor:
If you’re hoping for a good photo of kitties and lady parts, forget it. The photo is an historical image of five thoroughly-dressed turn-of-the-century women holding cats in their aprons/petticoats/skirts. It is kind of wierd though, what with all those kitten heads standing in for pubic foliage.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/54201953-79/label-vodka-utah-ogden.html.csp
The Salt Lake Tribune said “lady parts.” [Beavis and Butthead sound effects.]
Happy Monday to one and all!
Just spent two hours in a meeting helping to plan an airport display for an entire heritage area. Can you say, ‘amorphous’? Thought you could.
And the weather for the last two days was horrible — hot, humid, and thunderstorms. So I come back to work and it is fucking beautiful out there. Not fair.
Worse than that. They (conservative religious leaders) think that not teaching the kids what fucking is will stop them from fucking like idiots.
The younger brother of a kid I knew in high school missed four months of school recovering from a copperhead bite. He was bitten during a church service. And got no treatment for nine days. That’s a lot of time to allow a haemotoxin free access to your blood.
If an adult wants to handle the serpents, and dies, I will feel sorry for the snake, not the person. If I child handles poisonous snakes as part of religous service, the whole fucking church, all the adult members, should be charged with child endangerment and/or child abuse.
If Wolford wants to feel up snakes to prove he is pious, more power to him. And more power to the snakes.
Well, hell, according to that, there ain’t a True Christian in the entire world!
Gen:
I actually have raided with a few families – usually mom and dad, with one or two children. The best group was a dad tanking, mom as a DPS and the late-teens son as a healer. They had computers in the same room and regularly ran dungeons and such together.
One dad let his two-year-old sit on his lap and play his character (a mage) during “down time”, and it was our job to keep him alive (generally as he ran headlong into groups of monsters) or just /dance and make him laugh (we’d hear the giggles through dad’s voice chat). Fun times.
It’s not going to stop.
Bye.
@Jennifer #61
My parents raised me that way, and it certainly didn’t do me any harm, although I miss a lot of references people make to various TV shows that were on when I was a kid.
Look, I don’t want to wade into the psych meds thing going on here, but niftyatheist and dianne, you’re making some pretty sweeping statements about things that neither SC nor anyone else here, in this conversation now, ever said, implied or otherwise alluded to.
Examples from niftyatheist, 132, since SC already showed dianne’s:
Yeah, pretty much most of that post, actually. That’s not cool. No one said or even implied anything like that here during this conversation, why are there strawmen all over the carpets here?
Lynna, OM,
And from the link you posted, dude was the son of a snake-handler who died of snakebite in 1983. Also from the link, as it became clear this bite was proving too much for his heart, the Facebook requests started going out calling for . . . ?
If you said, “Prayers,” then you answered correctly and advance to the Lightning Round! (Lightning Round does not contain actual lightning).
And, of course, one of the comments from a friend of the deceased: “I hate to see him go, but he died for what he believed in.”
Yes. Yes he did. He definitely died for what he believed in. And of course, he has the ultimate “out” for what happened: “It was his time.” “God called him home.” “He’s in the loving arms of the Lord now.” Pick a variant, no critical thought necessary, fore and aft.
Still learning,
Robert
uh oh
ok
ok
ok
Ok sorry. My point was not ALL gamers. My point was there are exapmpes of people where it can become a huge fucking problem.
If I was not clear I apologize.
I at one point saw some of that possibility in myself and had to stop. Well for the most part. I’ve tried a number of games after a couple year break from EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, SWG, WoW and a host of others. Some have been fun but most…. meh.
Doesn’t hold the same sway for me now as it did years ago.
I do know a few old guildmates who unfortunately could not escape it and have a productive real life to go along with their hard core raiding gaming lifestyle.
My comments obviously were not reflective of this and generalized when that wasn’t my intention. Sorry.
SC,
Isn’t it clear that I’ve tried to stay the hell out of the drama and name calling? Except for trying to explain why people might be talking at/past rather than to each other?
The correctness or otherwise of your claims are irrelevant to how you have been, and will be, treated by anyone. And to be frank I’m not responsible for how anyone else treats you.
If I read the materials and find them wrong, I’ll come back and let you know properly, i.e. not with a Nelson Munz “Haha you’re stoopid, go to it horde of screaming monkeys”. I’ve tried pretty fucking hard to pour oil on the waters so to speak. And I am free to make jokes whenever and with whoever I damned well like, you don’t get to police my activities and interactions on the web.
Your beef with anyone else is your problem, and their problem. It’s not mine. Can I be more emphatic about that?
Since I haven’t replied to this thread since Niftyatheist posted #132, and I’ve stayed the hell out of whatever you and Dianne are up to, you have no idea if I was going to agree or upbraid them for using my words that way. As it stands, Niftyatheist, right under the bit you quote I said something to the effect of “we could spend all day reading insults into each other’s posts”. In other words, whilst SC’s comments could be taken badly, I’m going to ignore that aspect for the simple reason that this has been a highly charged discussion, and I don’t think that charge helps. It’s more heat than light.
This is a topic, or rather set of topics, I know reasonably well and have some professional interest in. As I said to you before, that’s partly why I stayed out of these discussions in the past. Highly technical information dumps are hardly going to reduce my tendency to verbosity now are they? ;-)
Remember I said this: Good science is good science regardless of the source.
That is how I view…well…everything. Your claims, and those of your approved sources, will stand up to scientific scrutiny or they won’t. End of story. I don’t care who claims to know something or even what they claim to know. I care about how they claim they know it.
Like I said, I could play the same set of cards you’re playing and resent your implication that somehow because I am not falling at your feet and agreeing automatically I am hideously biased and incompetent in my area of professional expertise, but I’m not going to because what you have said interests me and I see little productive coming from trading insulting insinuations with someone I don’t know. Thus I’ll consider the science properly and ignore the drama as far as possible.
How I spend my time until that consideration and analysis is done is my own affair. Who I talk to, how I talk to them, what I talk about is my business, not yours. When I am finished reading, I’ll let you know what I think. Until then…
Louis
So, I’ve read through the past responses on this incarnation of TET about the discussion between SC, Louis, and dianne about psychiatric meds, and I’m trying to understand the disagreement. It seemed to me (and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) that SC was saying that the efficacy of most psychiatric meds is poor. I studied some psych in college before I switched majors and it was self-evident to me that drug therapy alone isn’t useful in all, or most, cases, but I also didn’t see Louis or dianne arguing for drug therapy alone either.
That’s why I’m trying to understand the disagreement, because if the point is that psych meds aren’t magical cure-alls, I don’t see anyone disagreeing with that point. What have I missed?
I’m staying out of the psychiatric meds discussion: although this issue affects me directly – I have a mood disorder and have been on various meds – I don’t have the expertise or background to have an informed opinion. (My own experience with meds has not been uniformly successful, but of course that’s anecdote, not data.) But I will say that I like both SC and Dianne very much, value both of their opinions very much, and am sorry to see the amount of hostility in this discussion.
Age 44 here.
Rev. BDC:
Oh, no. :(
Jennifer:
The very few times I’ve read him before all this happened, I was picking up unpleasant vibes: he’s called himself “politically incorrect,” he’s used “pussy” as a slur, he’s posted a long “fluff” video that apparently had a rapey scene in the middle of it, according to someone in TET several weeks ago. I left him a polite comment about it, but AFAIK he never responded.
Also, looks like Kylie Sturgess is yet another Chill Girl. Oh, well, it’s not like I ever did more than glance at her blog.
Other than Pharyngula, the blog I check most most often is B&W. The headlines from Dispatches, with their heavy dose of wingnut batshit, lure me in as well. Sometimes Natalie Reed. Other than that, I’d like to remember to check out Chris Rodda and Justin Griffith more often. Everybody else I can do without.
Louis:
I’m not sure about that, in a society in which women are considered the “sex class” and therefore considered to be “sexy” — to “have” sex — while men are not, and many women internalize the male gaze. Seems to me that socialization encourages men to be more closeted than women.
StevoR:
*sporfle* Uh-huh. How about the modesty factor?
Also, you’re a whiny arse. Learn not to ask stupid questions, and you’ll get fewer people calling you stupid.
Oh, my. Really? Well, thanks for letting us know where you stand on these issues, anyway.
RahXephon, that is exactly my point – that SC was/is not the only person who has a healthy skepticism on this matter, so what was she getting at?. It went on from there, unfortunately, to accusations of “willful ignorance” and downhill from there. :(
Yes, you’re right. Sorry for using your quote and dragging you into my rant. The heat of being accused of attacking while being a member of a segment of people being quite thoroughly attacked overcame me, I am afraid.
RahXephon,
I’m not disagreeing with SC, per se. I have homework! She has done a huge amount of work on various aspects of psychiatry and pharmacotherapy in psychiatric medicine (go to her blog, she’s written extensively on the subject), and that’s a lot of information to assimilate. She’s also linked a couple of books and articles to absorb and understand.
I’m not going to read a post or two, tell SC she’s wrong, and leave it there. First of all, I doubt that’s true, SC’s nobody’s fool. Second of all, judging a case before I’ve read it? Erm. No. It’ll take me a while, but I’ll get around to it.
The “heat” of any disagreement lies elsewhere as far as I’m concerned, I only give a shit about the science (and the people suffering….but that’s partly why I give a shit about the science). I suspect everyone else feels the same way.
Louis
Niftatheist, #148,
No worries. It happens!
Louis
I’m still trying to catch up on what happened, but I’m not even halfway through this “new commenting policy” thread of his. I’d love a summary of what happened.
From what I’ve seen so far, JT is reminding me of the guy several of us argued with a few weeks ago over the Obama “I’m for gay marriage except for the being for it in a useful way part” thing (which got me and some others from Pharyngula banned from Greg Laden’s blog for calling him on it, but meh). Lots of “but look at what a great ally I am! Stop being mean!!!”
I have to stay out of the rising hysteria in this thread. It’s not that I don’t care, it’s just that having almost died from a stroke recently leaves me needing to keep my stress levels low. Also, discussions about meds trigger anxiety. So, friends, you know I care, but I can’t discuss it right now. I am wimping out on this one.
In other news, I think we may have gained new insight into RomneyBot’s personality. He doesn’t care that Donald Trump is from crazytown, and he respects Trump’s aversion to facts.
http://www.salon.com/topic/birthers/
Walton, #145,
It just so happens that the mood disorder you have (IIRC) is the one I am working on. Well, one of two, the main one. So if you have any questions, I’d be more than happy to help.
Also, I do volunteer work with various organisations in the UK (and you’re back in the UK, probably not a million miles from me if my increasingly dicky memory is working) which might be very useful for you to join/sign up with/investigate.
If you want anything and I can help, I will.
Louis
Did I say you should do either of those things? NOOOOPE!
I was asking about the nature of the discussion or disagreement or whatever you wanna call it.
All Trump needs is a big red nose and long floppy shoes.
Rev:
If it matters, apology accepted. As I said, pet peeve, and I’m sorry you were the target.
I’ve known people who have had issues with gaming. But I’ve also known people who have had issues with working out too much, working too much, drinking too much, etc. Gaming is just one more thing for the pile, and while it’s novel enough that the risk wasn’t well understood for years, it isn’t any more subject to those risks than anything else.
I admire people who can see the signs in themselves and stop before it becomes a problem (as well as those who get trapped but manage to extract themselves, with or without outside help), but that’s true whether it’s gaming or something else.
Glad to hear Josh, Audley, carlie passed tornado-free evenings. We had light misting droplets this morning, clearing now with high anticipated at 35C/95F. Already feeling the heat increase on jog yestereve.
This past Sunday I was going to buy a couple of bottles of wine on sale at $5 (U.S.) per bottle. It was 1100 hours. I was told politely – and regretfully, it seemed – that such purchase was not allowed by law until 1200 hours on Sundays.
When I first left Texas 20 years ago, blue laws were still in effect. 20 years later, I’m back, and the blue laws? Still going strong. And still there’s a Christian somewhere whining that religion is getting short shrift in the U.S.
Beatrice, Walton, commiserations on the struggles for employment.
Still learning,
Robert
Carlie,
*hugs* back. I’m doing ok.
Louis: Thank you. My current official diagnosis is a little vague, so I’m not totally sure what I have (bipolar is a possibility, but I’m not sure). Of course, having left the US, I had to leave my therapist behind. But I re-registered yesterday with a local GP and will hopefully be able to get to see someone in due course.
Ms Daisy Cutter, #146,
Oh absolutely that’s a complicating factor! Hence why I preceded it with:
Bolding mine.
I also went on to say this was from (exceedingly vague) memory. I think you mention another very good reason for an apparent disparity. I don’t doubt for one second that social factors influence men’s expression of bisexuality. I wouldn’t even want to come down on one side “nature” or “nurture”, primarily because it’s a fucking false dichotomy as the answer’s clearly both! ;-)
The real question is “to what extent?”.
Louis
*peeks in* still on about who does or does not deserve good faith consideration?
—
Re gamer bashing:
Thank you for that, as a sometimes-devoted gamer. An MMORPG is responsible for my escape from my abuser, FYI.
Other points: while some gamers do become withdrawn and obsessive about it, there is evidence that some at least are using gaming as a safe social space and an escape from real-life problems such as abuse and bullying; thus the game itself isn’t the cause, but a means of compensation.
Also: there is research evidence showing bias against admitted gamers in areas such as job application and treatment by teachers and counselors. So, there’s reason to avoid reinforcing the negative stereotype.
Just wanted to mention that. /relurks
RahXephon, #154,
Oh oh! I know you didn’t say that. Oh fuck I am having foot in mouth (finger) syndrome today! ;-)
I was…
{waves hands frantically}
…yeah. That.
Louis
RahXephon:
First thread: All about helping teh poor awkward menz understand women’s body language at conventions, and calling on women to “call out” boundary violations. Because, y’know, the important thing is that teh menz will still be able to get laid at cons.
Never mind that predators != poor awkward menz; never mind the risk of shaming or violence to women who call out predators; never mind that there are countless resources for people who wish to learn body language; never mind that the d00dz whose hands were being held in that thread just flat-out refused to learn (“What do you mean, crossed arms mean ‘Stay away from me’? Maybe she’s COLD!!”).
Bonuses in the above thread: Hetsplaining to queer people that it’s totes okay when their “allies” pretend to be gay for the lulz. A couple of polyamorous guys (ShaunPhilly and someone else) insisting that discrimination against the polyamorous rises to the level of societal homophobia, and that it’s perfectly OK to hit on women wearing wedding rings because they might be poly. The “Women violate men’s boundaries as much as men do women’s!!” canard from Zengage, who was going by his experience as a bouncer at a bar. And lots of philosophy grad student–type wanking, especially from Saint Gasoline.
Second thread: Christina wrings her hands about the phrase “Die Cis Scum.” Cue a ton of cissplaining, especially from another poly type with a superiority complex (Wes), as well as finger-wagging and gross condescension from ZeL, the type of pacifist who would prefer to die for their principles and thinks everybody else should as well — and has probably never, ever been threatened physically in their life. (I should note, though, that ZeL did apologize profusely in the end.) Also, concern trolling from Katie Hartman about how anger from transgender people might “cause” cisgender people to harm them.
Third thread: Turns out that the people “derailing” threads over on WWJTD are not the ones pontificating from up on Mt. Privilege. They’re me, Josh, and Happiestsadist. In fact, we’re such awful “derailers” that JT had to write a post calling us out by name! And threatening to ban us if we keep “derailing”! Because, truly, our lives would not be complete without commenting access on his blog, you know?
Oh, and good ol’ Stephanie Zvan has been falling all over herself to defend both JT and Jason Thibeault, because they’re her BFFs or something. She’s another useless tone troll IMHFO. Anything she writes on feminism I can find elsewhere, and written more to my taste — off the top of my head I can think of half a dozen unknown feminists on Tumblr I’d rather read.
@131. Jennifer, Uppity Bitch and General Malcontent :
Fair enough.
But are the phrases in question “useless word dumps” or conveying particular nuances effectively?
I’d argue its the latter.
PS. Its ‘StevoR’ just one ‘e’ ‘k?
Richard Austin,
Stuff and nonsense, man!
The liver is evil, and must be punished.
Louis
Lynna, OM,
Hope your ischemic recovery is progressing well, safely, and with supportive care and compassion.
Still learning,
Robert
Exactly.
And masturbation is about getting the poison out.
I stay out of these arguments, because I don’t know anything either way beyond being your average layperson. But from reading over it all, it looks a lot like the same basic internet communication issue that happens a lot. One person talked about a personal issue, another person used that as a jumping-off point for a general discussion, the first person interpreted that as a direct criticism of the way they were handling the personal issue, the second person didn’t quite get that the first was then complaining about the personal attack rather than the general principle. So the second person keeps expanding on their explanation trying to talk about the general, and the first keeps adding to dismantling the explanation as it refers to the personal.
Rev BDC, #166,
Indeed, indeed. A gentleman may not deport himself properly with the white poison weighing heavily upon his mind.
He must take himself in hand and give himself a damned good thrashing to make sure the wickedness is exorcised and lest he become aroused at the sight of a particularly naughty table leg.
I’m sorry, I have rather an urgent appointment.
Louis
Louis:
Ah, OK. I was skimming a bit. Fair enough. And, yes, “nature vs. nurture” is a false dichotomy.
Indeed.
So long as I’m posting photos of liquor store signs, this one is within an hour’s drive of me. This one is maybe another half-hour’s drive.
Okay, I hope no one minds me bringing up JT again, but…
Is this really the best time for him to be making a “look how good an activist I am” post? Like, the Don’t Derail thread is still there, locked, possibly unread and definitely unmoderated. There’s the whole ally conversation in that thread, where people were basically pointing out flaws in his activism. Like, I know he has a responsibility to put more content up, he can’t just drop everything to read 500 posts of flamewar, but posting this particular thing while that’s still hanging unresolved, it kind of has a “hey look at this flattering distraction!” aspect to it.
Daisy Cutter:
Stephanie Zvan isn’t as bad as all that. Like, she’s hardly covered herself with honor, but she said straight out that if it was her blog she’d have banned Zengaze for a fraction of what he wrote at WWJTD. Since JT was actively defending Zengaze for the same stuff, there is apparently a limit on how far she will go to side with JT.
Carlie,
I blame the Space Lizards.
And the Jews. And the gays. And women. And blacks. And people who cut me up on the motorway. And people with a first name containing the word “day”. And Piers Morgan.
Especially Piers Morgan.
In fact only Piers Morgan.
It’s his fault.
Always.
He needs to die.
A lot.
Louis
@146. Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform :
Yeah, I’d say we’re pretty even competition, I might just edge you out in that regard. Of course neither of us actually know the other in RL so its a bit difficult to tell.
Well that’s your subjective opinion of me – which is quite wrong in my view and which you’ve utterly failed to support with any actual evidence. Your say so makes it so? No. I don’t think so!
No worries. Glad you appreciate it.
It certainly appears to be correct doesn’t it?
Nor was Hemingway an English professor. Yet I tend to side with him on many questions of usage.
Look, you seem to be confusing expressing a *preference*, and noting things which tend to frustrate me when I encounter them in writing as some kind of rule I wish to enforce. Or as some kind of rule I think exists. This is false.
I don’t have a degree, so I’m certainly not a professor of linguistics (professorship apparently conveying all rights to opine on a topic), but nonetheless much of my undergrad training and TA experience is in linguistic anthropology, so I’m a descriptivist at heart. I think that the people who speak a language determine its structure, and that clear communication is the only real objective standard. In writing, I interpret that to mean I should remove any excess or redundant words (In speech, of course, redundancy is usual a feature to avoid information loss.)
But there are probably English professors who disagree.
@Ms. Daisy Cutter,
Jesus. From the first post you linked:
I think there was some C4 in that strawman, because it blasted apart his entire point. Nobody, as far as I’m aware, has ever said “you can’t flirt/hook up at a convention ever again”. What utter cluelessness.
Also, I needed another “sure, women can be concerned about their safety, but it’s also super-de-duper important for me being able to get laid while I’M AT WORK” post like I needed a hole in the head.
@164. Louis :“The liver is evil, and must be punished.”
I’ll drink to that!
Robert B.:
On my first encounter with her, she waggled her finger at me for my user handle, because it is a pun on the name for a weapon of mass destruction. OH MY GAWD, VIOLENCE!!! And she also sniped at Happiestsadist because HS’s handle references sadism (JFC, had she never heard of BDSM?). I can do without that kind of whiny prissiness.
Also, she, along with Thibeault, have been harshly policing all the uppity, nay, churlish queers who objected to them blithely celebrating Obama’s tepid (to be charitable) “pro-equality marriage” announcement with a pretense at being gay for teh lulz.
Oh, also, thanks for the summary! I’m sure that won’t stop me from slogging through it all, but at least I feel like I have some clue what people are talking about.
StupoR:
So you’re on board with the tone trolling and faux-ally behavior we’ve been seeing on FTB the last several days?
RahXephon: You’re welcome. You might want to have alcohol on hand as you slog through it all.
Robert B — I noticed that fawning and self-regarding post at JT’s. It couldn’t be more obvious that he’s either a)deliberately trying to distract from his recent fails b) really that insecure and prideful and took a real body blow to his self-image as an ally and needs to soothe his own emotions
Or both.
…Argh, JT. After going “situation normal, nothing to see here” he’s on to “This is the great work we do and I’d work for free”?
I would LOVE to believe that. Really I would. *skeeeeeve*
Well yeah and I think that’s how I looked at it. I’m fortunate that, despite all my posts here that may hint otherwise, I have a fairly non addictive [warning for non sciencey stuff ahead] “personality”. Whatever that means. I’ve been a heavy drug user at times, a heavy or very fucking heavy drinker at times among other addiction possible activities. Never have I had a period of time where they caused me any issues with completing my real life obligations and responsibilities or ambition in any real way outside a possible missed day of work very rarely when I was in my just out of college years living in a ski town. Maybe I just got lucky. It has always been a turn off and on thing.
I’ve just never had issues with true dependency from my layman’s understanding. The gaming thing was the first time I noticed things I did not recognize or like in this vein and stopped it right there. Feeling actual anxiety when away from the game(s) for any long period of time was something new and fucking scary. Fearing missing events in game and missing events in real life to stay and play, holing up for a whole weekend to play nearly 24hours. etc..
yeah
Not cool at all.
Luckily I stopped it when I did and moved on. Even playing now doesn’t give me any of that which i probably a large part of why even though I’ve tried out a few MMORPs, they just don’t hold any pull for me.
/me time
@skepticalmath :
Okay. I kinda think I’m saying that myself here.
As I see it, a couple of people here have poured on the hate for a common phrase “I, for one,” and a word ‘firstly’ and I’m just asking why and saying hang on a sec, they’re just your preferences and others incl. myself are fine with them.
I’m not sure the words here are “excess” and “redundant” but think they convey nuances or meanings and implications that make their use worthwhile.
I don’t mind if people disagree with me or have theri own stylistic preferences. We all have our idiosyncracies, me as much as anybody.
I’m just curious as to why the hate for them and expressing my own opinion. Why that’s supposed to make me “whiny” and of apparently lesser intelligence in Ms Daisy Cutters eyes is baffling to me.
I didn’t read SC’s last post and I’m not going to because it will just annoy me and then I’ll respond with something that will annoy her and it will never end. One little general point before I have to stick the flounce, at least for now: On the issue of whether drugs can ever do something good for schizophrenia, I suggest this article.
Money quote: “Long-term cumulative exposure (7–11 years) to any antipsychotic treatment was associated with lower mortality than was no drug use (0·81, 0·77–0·84).” In other words, people with schizophrenia who don’t use meds are more likely to die than those that use meds. The meds themselves have dangers (get to work Louis!), but not taking them is associated with a worse outcome overall.
I’m sorry that I’m habitually late to these things, but I just had to mention this quote from JT on the Don’t Derail thread that I think encapsulates the issue with the people that I would term as “Faux-llies”.
What JT is saying here, in my view, is that he wants to see himself as an ally, regardless of his actual record and in spite of what the people he’s supposedly allied with actually say. Being an ally (or more accurately, being perceived as an ally) is what’s important. It’s part and parcel with maintaining the Fauxgressive Dood image. Saying that one is “for women’s equality” or “for gay rights” sounds good, makes one popular, but these phrases don’t seem to actually retain their contextual meaning when uttered by Faux-llies.
I think JT really needs to address The Posts before doing a whole bunch more at his blog. I’ll cut him some slack, since the 500+ comments take some time to go through (nesting), but all the pictures and Yay Me posts just seem totally out of place.
The only post even remotely commenting on that whole fiasco was Christina’s, where apparently the most important thing to comment on after her DCS post was the lack of a source of a statistic about violence against trans people.
which IS probably
Daisy Cutter:
Hm. Didn’t the rest of your handle hint to her that some level of irony was in play? Or did you not have the part after the comma yet? And objecting to “happiestsadist” is either ignorant or sex-negative, there’s not even an “I didn’t get the joke” excuse as there is with yours.
And to be honest, I missed the “lets pretend to be gay isn’t that funny” conflict because I couldn’t identify my own feelings on the matter. In retrospect, that queasy awkward “I’m gonna go over there now” feeling I had was not a good reaction, and if it happened again I’d say something.
I mentioned in JT’s “don’t derail” thread that I basically have “diction privilege,” that my habits of speech give me some unearned advantages, especially in environments where my words are all that’s seen of me. Maybe one of those advantages is the option to not notice certain instances of bad behavior because they end up not being aimed at me.
This is why I call you stupid. I make a snarky aside about phrases that irritate me, and I do it in my usual voice with an attempt at humor. You go ballistic, then you describe it as “pouring on hate.” You’re so disturbed by my aesthetic opinion (who the hell knows why) that you annoyingly harp on me to justify it. Meanwhile, you’re actually doing exactly what skepticalmath said you were—acting as my voicing my opinion was somehow forcing you not to have an opinion of your own.
Dude. We get that you don’t agree. You need to get that some of us hate those phrases. And that’s the end of the story.
Robert – I thought the same thing.
Louis – I read the first three instances of Piers Morgan as Piers Anthony. Same sentiment, though.
firstly, groan
skepticalmath: I thought the statistic thing was an interesting, if tangential, follow-up. It’s not the most flattering thing to Christina that that’s what she focused on, but frankly I’m glad the conversation happened. Crip Dyke made some really good points, and you and she debunked the statistics, and my thinking on the matter was clarified. TBH, Natalie Reed has enough skeptic cred with me that when she deployed that one-in-twelve stat I assumed it was solid. Apparently not – and I’d already used it once myself. So I’m glad that mistake got pointed out.
Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
The Romney campaign has finally figgered out how scoial meida work.
Robert B: In the case of my handle, it’s both ignorant and sex-negative. I actually picked it as my usual nym in 2003ish after one of my regular re-reads of A Wrinkle In Time, which is an excellent, award-winning YA book. But it seemed such a bizarre thing for her to latch on to. But then, she does seem rather an asshole.
Uuuugh, yesterday was a bad pain day, which led to a terrible sleep, and a bad pain day today. Apologies for my irritability and likely many offerings to Tpyos.
182 StevoR
Mostly, what Josh said in 188.
I think you need to realize how language snarking works. Someone says “Yeah, I hate it when people end a sentence a preposition with” That’s not a pouring on of hate for the use of terminal prepositions nor the users thereof. It’s the expression of a pet peeve. It isn’t the people who originally make the statement who turn it into something more than that and blow it out of proportion, it’s the people who respond to that comment by taking it so seriously and exaggerating the original expression of hate that do so.
I am the opposite, which is why I’ve given all of those games a wide berth. I would absolutely be that person who never does anything else. It’s part of why I quit facebook, too (well, that and the skeevy privacy invasion policies). I am pretty much incapable of not getting deeply involved in anything I’m interested in, so all of my self-control has to be exerted at the beginning to keep it from starting in the first place.
Sniffle. Sniffle. Someone hand me the envelope please? And the winner is. . . .JT Eberhard Prom King of the Benevolent Association of Benevolent Benevolence!
@ 191 Robert B
Oh, I agree, pointing out that there isn’t a source for the statistic is fine, and I think the discussion in the comments was really good, I certainly learned a ton from Crip Dyke. And I certainly didn’t mean to imply that there was any malicious or incredibly bad about Christina making the post. And, sure, it is always good to point out misuse of statistics and wrong statistics. I just thought it is weird that that’s the first, and so far, only followup post to a many-hundred-comment thread. I had assumed that the followup would be, you know, engaging substantively with the major discussion in the thread.
@Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform :
That’s your personal view and asessment of things.
It isn’t necessarily a view or assessment that everyone will share.
I’ve only seen a little bit of the whole imbroglio – very far from all of that thread – and I haven’t made up my mind.
(I have stuff to do in RL and time pressures that make keeping up with every last word on every FTB thread a bit hard. Heck, I should probably be asleep now.)
Going on what I have seen, The Lousy Canuck accused you and Josh of misreading his words and banned you both for constantly misconstrueing (spelling?) his words and making unwarranted attacks on strawmen you claimed were his creations when he was actually saying something different. I saw one comment you personally made which was pretty much literally a request to be banned and he obliged you. What did you expect would happen? [Shrug.]
Lousy Canuck & Josh seem to have a personal history of vigouously and, worse, antagonistically disagreeing with each other from what I could tell. Seems to have escalated in resulted in Josh not being allowed on Lousy Canuck anymore. Pity for both of them in my opinion. Both are smart people with good things to say, sad they couldn’t work it out or just cool off and agree to disagree.
I’d happily read either one’s blogs – yours too if you have one – while not always agreeing or commenting.
43 and counting.
Hi Esteleth! Hi carlie! Hi Daisy! Hi Caine! Hi chigau! Hi Walton, TLC, cicely!
Jennifer, your new long-form nym is admirable :)
Josh, I think you’ve earned the right to scream Get Off My Lawn from time to time.
Louis, I don’t recall that we have been formally introduced, but Hiya! Much enjoying your drollery on many a topic, and your insights from within the sugar mines of Big Pharma.
Nota bene, I include people’s nyms before blockquotes in the following for the purpose of correct attribution, not because I specifically want to have a go at that person, as opposed to the argument presented.
–
SC #299 of previous 500:
Pardon the mangling of the grammar, but rearrangedTFY. Same data, same words, different sentence structure: entirely different implications.
Sicker people are more likely to take medication? I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise.
BTW, I just lurve the repeated use of scare quotes around “schizophrenia”. Minimization FTW.
Janine:
Despite the fact that single bouts of schizophrenic symptoms with no further recurrence over a person’s lifetime are totally a known thing in the literature and profession? Huh. Okay then.
Ing:
An interesting analogy, Ing. Right now, the discussion still seems to be over whether “evolution is wrong” is even true, tenable or worth pursuing. Significant holes in the argument seem to be pointed out with some regularity.
SC:
Thankyou, SC; they’re open in other tabs now. Will investigate.
Wow. I just …
FTR, that the period 1955 to 2012 over which you claim that there has been zero progress in the field of psychiatric pharmacology, correct?
Wow.
SC, your insistence that there is One True Conclusion to draw from this clusterfuck comes off as slightly … cranky. You’re not making a convincing case that this is settled science and we can all turn the corner into (or start urgently looking for) some new paradigm, and your dismissal of what seem to be substantive criticisms of your argument – and your habit of making what seem on the face of them to be extraordinary claims, sans accompanying extraordinary evidence, like the above – appears – well, again, somewhat crank-y.
And martyrdom too? My bingo card is filling up fast.
I’m unlikely to stick my oar in this pond again; the FTB comments are not the high court of scientific consensus, and I would not even be a janitor in said court anyway. What’s wrong with letting the scientific community and process do its thing? If the evidence is as compelling as you claim it is, the truth will out.
niftyatheist #132:
What you said. Also, applause.
Audley #360 previous 500:
Having had a friend or two with congenital deformities of the hand and forearm (yay thalidomide) which didn’t look a million miles different to those photos, I’m afraid I’m not down with the “absurdity” of that link.
–
Oh yeah :( TV documentary in my case.
@Josh
Holy shit, is that something JT actually said somewhere?
I thought what I quoted above was bad. How far up one’s own ass can one be?
@Josh
By the way, I didn’t mean that you made it up, I meant more like “holy shitsnacks, I can’t believe someone can be that dense and not collapse in on themselves like a neutron star”.
Did anybody else notice Gunboat Diplomat popping up like nothing ever happened in the Simple Guidelines thread??
Hi, drbunsen. Welcome back from whatever alternate reality had the pleasure of your company.
drbunsen: You make excellent points, and your nym references my favourite Muppet. I’m glad you’re here/back.
Yeah. I’m wondering when the other shoe will drop.
You are rilly dumb. For rill. I’m not banned there. In fact Thibeault changed his opinion on a post in part because of my explanation.
So you can run and tell that.
@ Josh, Official SpokesGay:
I don’t think I went ballistic. I think I just asked why you hated those so much.
Not disturbed by your opinion – not in agreement with it but not disturbed. Curious about it and asking for an elaboration because I didn’t understand why you thought so.
Where did I ever say you couldn’t hold your opinion or have your own preferences?
Okay then. Fair enough.
Rev @ 181,
Holy shit, you’re not really Mr Darkheart, are you*? You’ve pretty much exactly described what happened to him when he started playing WoW.
It got so bad that I eventually threw him out of our apartment (before telling him that he was lucky that I didn’t take a ballpeen hammer to his computer first). We (obviously) patched things up when he immediately quit cold-turkey, but he knows that if he starts playing another MMORPG, I’ll toss him out again.
Harsh, I know. But that’s how it is.
(And remember people: I’ve been a gamer for damned near 20 years now, so this isn’t some anti-gamer bias. Just a personal story about how shit can go wrong and impact the people around you.)
Darkfetus update!
The DF has been using my abdomen as its drum set all freaking day**, but the cool thing is that I’ve gone from only feeling movement on the right side to feeling movement all over the place. :)
*Okay, he’s not a whisk(e)y nerd, so you’re probably not the same person. ;)
**If I could shamelessly solicit everyone’s opinion: One of the names I was considering was Maxwell, but Mr Darkheart isn’t a huge fan. He suggested Maximilian, but I can’t consistently spell that to save my life. He suggested we split the difference and consider Max as a full first name, but I’m worried that it’s just too twee, you know? Or am I just being ridiculous?
Lets just put it this way, Mrs. BDC is WAY happier I’m a beer and whisk(e)y nerd and not a gamer.
Audley @208: You could name him Max and then Where The Wild Things Are would be about him!
@Audley Darkheart — I have a friend whose whole first name is Max. It’s never seemed particularly twee to me. Nor has it seemed to be an issue for him.
@StevoR
Just cause not everyone agrees, doesn’t mean that someone isn’t right…..
@206. Josh, Official SpokesGay says:
Okay, that’s news to me – good news I’ll add.
BTW. Dumb? No, I can talk.
I don’t think it makes you stupid if you haven’t heard / read a partuicular recent item of information.
skepticalmath:
Ah, yes, I quite agree. It’s not that Christina shouldn’t have made that post, it’s just that there’s some more important posts that someone over there ought to make and hasn’t yet.
RahXephon: Yeah, that wasn’t even a paraphrase. Aside from josh’s (correct) use of explanatory brackets, that’s a direct quote from JT.
Dr Bunsen,
*facepalm!* I didn’t even think about that– totally my bad.
Apologies all around.
Cool.
I remember feeling Girl and Boy moving inside Wife and, after I got over feeling totally squicked out, I thought it was really cool. Squicky, but cool.
Have you thought, maybe, Maximus? Maxim? (No, never mind on that one) I like Maximilian — come up with a consistent way to mispell it and use that.
I like Max.
Great. Now I can’t get the image of JT tearfully wanking over his Unassailable Record of Ally-itude out of my head.
Audley—Max is a most excellent name for a boy. If you go for the long version Maximilian is most definitely preferable. “Maxwell” sounds like an 80s soap-opera name. But he should be called Max.
Maximus
Robert @165
Yesterday my brother Steve mowed my lawn while I sat under a shade tree and watched. While that was all pleasant and while I’m all properly grateful, I really want to be able to mow the fucking lawn myself.
Recovery is far too slow in my opinion. But I did manage to walk across the lawn (haltingly) carrying an almost full pitcher of iced tea. Then I rested.
No, but I think it is generally considered good form to avoid commenting on something until you have read up on it.
If you keep slogging through those threads, worse images may replace it….
Oh, Lynna, I wish progress were faster too. But I’m glad to know it’s happening!
xxxooo
Oh, also, Audley, an anecdote: I knew a guy once whose first name (entire first name) was just “M.”
Audley: I like Maxwell or Max over the other Max* names. The only Maximilian I’ve ever known was a small dog, so my opinion is pretty coloured by that.
I, for one, definitely did pour the hate onto several verbal redundancies. Going forward, though, I will utilize more out-of-the-box thinking because at this point in time I realize that these are just my own preferences. I shall cease preventing others from using these words and phrases forthwith!
I have feeling in the entirety of my right thumb again!!!!
*laughing/dancing/singing*
Joy and general frivolity! Let the *boozes* flow freely!
–
I”m…53? I think? Maybe 54?
–
What he needs is the NapperCrapper2000™.
–
*hug* and *chocolate* for Beatrice. Wish I could help.
–
Because it’s always someone else’s kids, never theirs. Until suddenly it is theirs, and then they’re suddenly all about how there should be help available for them.
Narcissism, lack of empathy….
–
Oggie,
I suggested Maximus and Mr Darkheart immediately started quoting Gladiator* at me. So, I think that one’s right out. :D
I like Max, too, which is prolly why I’m agonizing over this more than the other names on the list.
Skepticalmath and Jennifer, thanks!
Rev,
I’m a much bigger beer nerd than the Mr, but neither one of us knows whisk(e)y from a hole in the ground.
*”ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?”
Skepticalmath @ #222: I think I’d never not get “In the Hall of the Mountain King” in my head while in his presence.
Audley:
You could steal from Tom Lehrer and spell it ‘Maximi3lian’ and just explain that the ‘3’ is silent?
“Maxwell” is also the name of a great scientist, the theorist who unified electricity and magnetism and discovered the wave equation for light. So that gets my vote.
Audley – I was going to suggest “Maddox,” shortened to Max, but then I realized that my first two associations for that name were 1.) Angelina Jolie’s adopted son and 2.) a series of characters in a Madeline l’Engle book which, looking back on it, is full of some silly stuff involving reincarnation and Biblical themes. It’s one of the sequels to A Wrinkle in Time, but nowhere near as good. I mean, I remember liking it at the time but that was because I was a teenage l’Engle fangirl.
So, I don’t know. I still like the sound of the name, but the associations may be too much.
@227 Happiestsadist
I….don’t understand. (I mean, I’m familiar with the Grieg….but can you explain the connection?)
SallyStrange: Yeah, I try to ignore everything but the first two of the Wrinkle In Time series.
I have to insulate myself from the trainwreck and harassment fight for a while to de-trigger. I just wanted to send USB hugs to Lynna quick, and thank Happiestsadist, Esteleth and Crip Dyke again for the help and support.
I’m afraid of her mouth.
Good evening
TET is really running fast these days…
Sometimes I just hate people
Some of you may remember that the whole Mr. car crash thingy started with him picking up the kidses new bed. the expert cleared it yesterday as undamaged, so we wanted to put it up tomorrow.
While I was cooking I asked Mr to take out the manual so I can read it tonight already.
Guess what’s missing…
Gen Fury
I hate, hate, hate those people. I got sympathy and compassion when I announced that #2 was a girl, too
*spit*
I wanted to stuff their heads into one of those mobile toilets because judging by the shit they utter that’s where they belong.
As for my alcoholic mum, cutting her out completely would mean to abandon my grandma. That’s something I can’t do.
+++
Nice stuff:
It’s nice for the neighhbour’s daughter to care so well for my grandma’s cat.
Ok, it might be due to the fact that before the cat was let outside, she considered it to be her cat ;)
But it seems like the cat enjoys human company + outdoors which draws her magically to my parents’ garden
Skepticalmath,
My gut reaction was “M? Cool!” But a name like that sounds like it could be problematic in school, applying for a passport, etc. :-/
HappiestSadist,
:D At first, I wanted Simon for a boy, but I’ve had a pet rat named Simon. Simon was an excellent rat, but I’m not sure I want to explain to my child where the name came from.
Oggie,
Are you trying to make Maximilian more difficult for me to spell? :p
So, consensus: Max isn’t too twee, yeah?
skepticalmath: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_(1931_film)
Great, creepy film, but yeah.
How about Maximum Altitude
@skepticalmath:
Did he, by any chance, know a man named “Bond?”
I’m astounded that I’ve never seen that movie before. I was obsessed with Peter Lorre for a while.
Audley: Yeah, hadn’t thought of that, but it probably would be difficult in formal/legal situations. And, yes, I think the consensus has spoken against the too-tweeness of Max.
Katherine Lorraine
How one *earth* have I never thought of that? What is wrong with me? (Rhetorical.)
Audley: I think Max is a great name for a boy. Works for both kids and adults.
Naming a kiddo after a rat is cute to me, but then, I’m weird. My irl name actually wasn’t the name I was initially given. My parents have the same first initial, and they were adamant not to give me a name with the same letter, for fear of twee. So, I was Vanessa for about a week. Until they realized I was not at all a Vanessa. The name that suited me was one that began with the previously ruled-out letter. So they still get the assumption that they planned it to be “cute” to this day.
Sally,
Mr Darkheart’s cousin’s boy is named Maddox, after Angelina Jolie’s kid.*
*And after they decided to tell the Jewish side of the family that Max was “too Jewish”, so then they settled on a celebrity kid name. Ick.
skepticalmath–would you mind dropping me an email at spokesgay at gmail?
I can’t hear “Max” without thinking of Miracle Max. Remember, you rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles.
FTW! And I second this (well, looking upthread, now it’s about tenth). Max is a great name! Any form of it will do just fine, though I, for one (sorry, sorry! I can’t stop now!) am partial to Maximilian, because…Max a MILLION! :D It just sounds so positive!
Also, love how the Darkfetus made its presence felt so recently and now is all over the place. I remember that. I remember saying to Mr Nifty, Wow, last week nothing and now I feel it constantly! That must be a thing (5 pregnancies here – happened every time).
So totally understandable. I am happy to hear you are recovering, and wish you speedier and speedier progress.
skepticalmath:
You must watch it. Lorre is bloody brilliant in that film.
Kids these days! Sheeeeesh!
skepticalmath: A reasonable obsession, and one that I share. Seriously, watch M sometime. It’s amazing and chilling. The graphic novel version by Muth is also good, for those interested in such.
done.
Hmmm. Is this the theme of the day or summat?
drbunsen, thank you for that and for your remarks. I appreciate it.
Also, pleased to meet you! I’m fairly new (though a lurker for most of the past year). I look forward to reading more of your comments.
drbunsen,
It’s not “minimization”, it’s disagreement about the existence of schizophrenia as a thing, as any more than a label for a constellation of symptoms.
I disagree with that disagreement — although we should all admit that comparing paranoid schizophrenia with catatonic schizophrenia makes one wonder whether about that umbrella — but SC has repeatedly been clear that people get diagnosed with schizophrenia because they are experiencing some pretty horrific shit.
There’s no excuse for your misrepresentation here.
Lol! People who don’t like being lied about are totally martyrs!
Might as well not discuss any science here among ourselves, ever.
In fact, there’s no reason for anyone to ever discuss science unless they are paid members of “the scientific community”.
Then this applies to you too, drbunsen.
There is no excuse for your misrepresentations.
niftyatheist, how do you feel okay with yourself accepting this “praise” while failing to answer for your dishonesty and irrationality</a?
Miracle Max! Where the Wild Things Are! That’s it, the rest of the boy’s list is being tossed. ;)
For real, I cried for the entire morning that I found out that Maurice Sendak died. We read that book to our daughter and let her decide whether it is Max or her name, and we let her decide whether she wants to be king or queen. It goes fifty-fifty.
My friend Max was very sad when he died, too. Max is a fantastic name.
Happiestsadist:
Happiestsadist: Sorry to interrupt your ignoring, but now that I’m thinking about it, Meg’s transformation into Mrs. Pregnant Beautiful Housewife was pretty disappointing.
I hadn’t thought about those books in a while.
Audley: it’s a damn shame about Mr. Darkheart’s cousin’s kid. Screw it, just go with Max.
♥ for Maximilian
My grandfather’s name was Maximilian! Well, one of the names. He used Smiljan in his later life, which wasn’t just short of Maximilian, but also one of his names.
He apparently had more, but mum doesn’t know them. His parents were… enthusiastic with names.
Thank you, Josh. I want the old Lynna back. I feel like she is missing in action. I keep looking for the smallest sign that she is still there.
Oh Lynna. :(
*hugs*
SallyStrange: I felt really…betrayed by the transformation. I mean, I loved Meg the awkward, dorky girl full of messy emotions and bravery and compassion. As opposed to this passive stereotype. Bleh.
Sharing a name with the Max of Where the Wild Things Are is pretty cool. There was an animated character called Max Headroom a while back, but I think that’s well disappeared into oblivion now.
Might be nice to have the passport-and-officialdom option of Maximilian while having Max for universal everyday use?
Will there be an additional name, for extra added choice when older? (I quite like the idea of a choice, though Max/Maximilian is sort of like having two rolled into one anyway)
I work for a government agency. What would I know from making things more difficult?
I like it.
Keep in mind, you will have people asking what it is short for. I knew a young woman named Alex. That was it. She was named for her uncle. No Alexa, no Alexis, no Alexandra, no short for nothing. And every single year her new homeroom teacher would ask what it was short for. And her parents almost had to get a lawyer to get her into a youth baseball programme (not Little League) because no one would believe that her birth certificate just said, “Alex.”
That’s the only difficulty I would see with Max.
Keep in mind, every name in existence has this kind of baggage with it, so take it with a large crystal of NaCl.
Which would have the added bonus of becoming Maximum Attitude at a certain age?
Lynna, she is still there (as your posts show). Here’s to your body getting back up to your mind’s speed ASAP. (pouring refreshing and bracing beverage of your choice into USB).
A friends kid always started to cry when called by her first name, so she decided to go with her second name.
My kids’ initials are the same as about 50% of the whole family. But that ws not planned. #1’s is literally “girl” in Portuguese. When I was a child, we went on holiday to Portugal. A very old man called me me that and gave me an orange. It stuck in my head forever. The little one is named after a charater from Astrid Lindgren’s books, better said the German version of it. So far the names fit.
Oh, and the initial side-effects of my new medication drives me up the wall. Literally, almost.
Lynna: You’ll be back. *hugs if wanted*
There is actually a whole story about my grandfather’s names, but I don’t know the whole thing. Apparently, he got drafted into Italian army (as a Slovenian from the part that was under Italians), but didn’t want to fight for the fascists so he ended up as a prisoner in a camp. Eventually , there were some escapes and he managed to get some Croatian island and from there home.
He was drafted under one name, but then taken prisoner under another so when my grandmother was trying to find him with the help of Red Cross, she couldn’t because they were searching under the wrong name. It all ended well and he was the awesomest person I have ever known and probably will ever know.
Er, I totally endorse Maximilian as one of the bestest names ever. :)
You know, though I love the idea of the name Max by itself, I’ll actually throw in with “Maximilian,” though, partially because I adore Cabaret (although the stage show, sans Max, is better) and partially because I very nearly ended up with a diminutive for a first name. I passionately despise being called “Jenny.” (See my response to someone who tried to belittle me by calling me that in a thread a few days ago.) At the last minute, my dad suggested maybe naming me Jennifer for shiggles, just in case, and I will forever be grateful.
SallyStrange, in Harris thread as well. I kind of answered hir and am just waiting for when the shitstorm begins.
#146 Ms Daisy Cutter
I would very much agree with this, and @Louis #9 that’s actually a very good unpacking of the kind of thing I meant in re: misogyny in swinger culture. I recognize that you have had a a different experience, and YMMV of course, but I suspect that mostly we just have different ‘creep filters.’
Those are beautiful name origins, Giliell! Mine were all chosen because they sounded nice and fit me. Though one of them was coincidentally the same as that of a notoriously cantankerous relative. My folks didn’t have the heart to tell her it was coincidental, and she was always sweet to me. I sort of wish I had some kind of history or backstory to my names, but nah.
Thanks, all, for the hugs. And, yes, I do accept hugs. You can’t have too many hugs.
In the meantime, Mitt Romney is doing his part to provide me with black humor.
I think this blunder was mentioned up-thread, but the NY Daily News has some nice, snarky coverage.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/united-states-amercia-mitt-romney-campaign-misspells-nation-lead-iphone-app-article-1.1086499
Fuck.
GD just arrived on Simple Guidelines.
I do not think I can take his toxic objectification bullshit.
Opposablethumbs:
We haven’t decided on any middle names yet, but yeah, the DF will have one.
Also, if we decide on a longer Max- name*, we’re going to call him “Max” in any case. I love nicknames, but that might be because I identify much more strongly with my nick than my legal name. :)
*There’s still a few other boys names that we’re considering, but we’ve got the girls list narrowed down to two.
I fucking hate Gunboat Diplomat.
I was temporarily willing to assume he’d learned something and just steer clear of him on a personal level, but he’s apparently proud of his shitty behavior in the MRAs are hilarious thread. So fuck that asshole.
Robert B., I don’t think I had the “Gynofascist” part installed yet, but, still.
Also, to be clear, it was both her and Jason Thibeault waxing indignant over our handles.
I don’t know that I agree.
Sili:
KEEPING AMEIRCA STRONG!
Also, I guess the OP in that first Not Always Right link didn’t consider that the older lady might be on a limited income (though she was kinda rude). Being able to just throw $5 into a charity jar isn’t something everyone can do.
Happiestsadist, not that everybody has read A Wrinkle in Time or any other particular book, but it’s kind of amusing to me that an aspiring sf/f writer didn’t get the ref.
Also, gentle hugs.
Josh:
I agree. (Sorry, HS.)
Lynna, hang in there. I’m glad you’re improving, albeit slowly.
SkepticalMath:
The term “circle jerk” comes to mind. I hope they have several new mops over there.
Nifty:
At the end of the day, if you don’t hold to that, I will provide pushback.
Sally, what HS said about the L’Engle sequels. I’d avoid her “mundane” work as well. I don’t remember the name of the novel, but it was Really Really Important that the two foster kids taken in by the Perfect Xtian Famblee accompany them to church.
@Pterryx:
You’re welcome, though I’m not sure what I’ve done, I’m glad it helped anyway.
@Audley:
I love the name Max. I think it’s appropriate for any gender.
Also, my goddaughter’s little brother is named Maximilian and was sooo cute when he would introduce himself as “Max-a-millee-yum!” What a great kid.
Some of the fun of “just Max” is that when you’re rollplaying you can call a child “MinMax” [as child gamers will inevitably be].
While little? Minimax.
The report card? Maximal grades.
It goes on and on. Suffer the little children, y’know?
…….
Now taking off from Audley:
I followed up her “one little hand” link with a call-back joke. I join in the apologies.
==========
About the “statistics” thread by Christina over at WWJTD?:
I tried. I really tried. I inevitably forget that people really aren’t able to separate their work from themselves, and when I said the post lacked “humanity” I think that Christina never recovered. I made clear that the objection was largely as written above in two separate posts by skepticalmath…
Maximilian is a good name. I prefer it to Maxwell (the latter tends to put me in mind of Maxwell’s Silver Hammer).
Dr Bunsen, #199,
Oh we should have passed each other in the corridor a few times! I’ve been around a while. I go through periods of presence and absence, I let the assorted commentariat decide which is more painful! ;-)
As for SC’s comments on things psychiatric, I think she’s made it clear she’s coming from a compassionate place, and certainly doesn’t deserve the pile on and misrepresentation she’s getting from many quarters. As I said above, I’d like to stay out of the drama.
The case SC presents is not a simple one, and it’s worth examining properly. I’m going to give it a good old try from a chemistry/drug discovery perspective, but I’m no psychiatrist/psychologist nor do I play one on television…
…well apart from being Kelsey Grammer’s arse double on Frasier.*
Louis
* This is, in fact, untrue. I apologise to Mr Grammar for any and all distress caused.
“Militant Atheist Experimentalist”
“Miniature Audley-Excretion”
“Moderately Autotuned Xylophone”
If you borrow from Fritz Lang, go with “Mabuse” ;-)
“…The hegemony of crime…” BWAHAHAHAHA!
— — — — — —
Since the nutters use numerology to work out those annoying apocalypses, I have decided to retaliate. Hmmm…2x2x2x2=16. So go from 2012 to 1996 to locate something that will annoy puritans in dark, somber clothing worrying about Jahweh and raptures. Something with neon colours, loud noise and wimminfolk who don’t know their place…
PARADISO “Bailando” 1996 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blV1SMnC8cs
Paradisio – “Bailando” (better quality video but fainter sound) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fEfJsYiD2A&feature=related
Loona – “Bailando” – *Lyrics* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjYNsxjevQQ&feature=related
Thanks, Daze. :) Ended up taking the painkillers that I hate, and an antacid, and am doing kind of okay now.
Walton @ #278: That song will be in my head all day now. Also, good to see you again. (Really.)
Happiestsadist
If it’s any consolation, the story behind my name is that my dad talked my mum out of giving me a very ugly one :)
Coincidentially, both kids have biblical middle names. They’re the names of their great-grandmother and their great-great-grandmother, the latter one having been a staunch atheist :)
Mr. and I took ages to agree on a boy-name and thankfully never needed it. OK, one boy would have been OK (Leander), but a second one?
Hugs to Lynna
And now off for the balcony and gin tonic. I drink too much when Mr.’s around.
:D
I ♥ you so much, Crip Dyke!
While we’re talking name origins and how parents choose names, my name has a particularly frustrating origin.
My first and middle names (A and B for these purposes) are both male names, but which have female versions C and D (pairing A-C and B-D). Can anyone guess what my older sister’s first and middle names are? Yes. D C.
Thankfully, I’m very close to my sister. Still……
Oooooo, Leander…
No! The boy’s list is already too long!
I actually dig Lucius and Lucien, but the baby-having days are over and the Gentleman Caller would put his foot down on those. I like the connotations of light-bringing, truth-telling, and devilry.
Oh, I like Lucien.
I’m named for my uncle who was named for his paternal grandfather. My father was named Scott, because his maternal grandfather was named Archibald. Old Archibald insisted that the boy be named for him, so they gave him the nickname Archibald had at work, which was ‘Scot’ due to his national origin. He also named one of his daughters Archibaldina, although she went by her middle name, which I forget, having never actually met her.
Archibaldina! Ack!
I once new a woman named Abrah, and I thought that was bad!
<3 Lucien, always have. Since the Zork Nemesis days. *sigh*.
Luscious, though, not so much. XD.
Max = +10, love it, not too twee. Why no, the fun that can be had with that (as pointed out by Crip Dyke) had nothing to do with that.
*shuffles feet*
Suffer the little children indeed! *Gleeful cackles*.
Audley,
Max?
Max is a cool name. You have my approval. Which I am sure is what counts.
Louis
DJ Grothe doubles down on how women need to stop talking (ahem, i’m sorry spreading rumors) about being harassed, because its mean-spirited and distasteful.
the words “unnecessarily divisive” also make an appearance.
so: why is it that every time I get hopeful that the atheist/skeptic movement has gotten over itself and is finally willing to fix the “chilly climate”, people decide to pick that moment to prove me wrong?
Louis,
Oh, I’m always seeking your approval and your approval alone. ;)
Leander is one of my most favouritest names EVAR.
The name of the bloke who swam the Hellespont and thus inspired one of my all time heroes to swim it. Hence why I also favour Byron as a boy’s name.
Louis
Dividing the misogynists (racists, trans- & homophobes, bigots, etc.) from decent human beings is entirely necessary.
Only just now discovered the quick link button to The Endless Thread on right-hand side of page.
Lynna, OM,
May it be so.
Still learning,
Robert
yeah, but it makes women not want to go to TAM, which is far more important!
Classicist cannot get past: Hero and Leander
Also, am I the only one who think it’s absolutely awesome that “Hero” use to be a common-ish girl’s name? When I first encountered it in Much Ado About Nothing (I was a Shakespear geek in primary school. I got over it) I was puzzled at first, and then like FUCK YEAH.
@Jadehawk — and apparently no official complaints were made, so obviously no harassment could *possibly* have happened! Nothing to see here, folks!
Speaking of transphobes, there was a horrible transphobic article by Sheila Jeffreys in the Guardian today. I couldn’t quite believe they published it. (I won’t link it here, but you can find it on my FB wall.)
Audley, #296,
And I yours dear lady, and I yours.
Louis
Back to work on The Darkheart Duckie Project™.
Oh names, don’t get me started. Christ, I can’t stand my legal name. It is so not me. Whatever you do, Audley, don’t name Darkfetus after a family member.
According to Rebecca Watson some event organisers have received demands (suggestions?) that she be disinvited/blacklisted.
It bugs the fuck out of me that they – the people in relative power, who can speak from a position of authority with written evidence – do not publish these emails prominently in the manner that PZ does his threats of violence.
The people who suffer this harassment are not in a position to speak out, since the fucking Elevatorgate has been a most excellent silencing tactic: “Dare criticise us in the least, ‘bitches‘, and this is what happens to you.
Any observer who does not cry from the rooftops what goes on is near to an accessory.
SEE SOMETHING? SAY SOMETHING!
*hugs* for Lynna.
–
Maximum. Atitude. Darkheart.
–
Walton @303: Shorter Sheila Jeffreys: “Let us debate the validity of someone else’s identity, which does no harm to any other person, in order to justify our own bigotry against a harmless set of the population, without being accused of doing just that.” Fucking gross.
Writing for Rolling Stone, Tim Dickinson has the best coverage I’ve seen of the billionaires who have bought the Republican Party.
Excerpts:
There are billionaires who want to limit a home buyer’s ability to sue for shoddy construction — these are guys who build shoddy homes.
There are the Bain Buddies who want to screw taxpayers even mo’ better than they did before.
There are pyramid scheme operators who feel restricted by consumer protection laws.
There are scam artists who want to make the world safe for purveyors of false advertising.
And on and on.
Lynna, OM
From what you’ve written recently you seem very much like the Lynna we’ve all learned to love: witty as ever.
And awesome.
*hugs* and best wishes
Reposting from the “Simple Guidelines” thread:
“Pleasure Card” Bingo 1.
“Pleasure Card” Bingo 2.
The “free space” may be mildly NSFW.
With thanks to Josh and LDTR for suggestions on the second one.
@lynna
This country is so screwed. I am so tired of liberals always losing.
I second Sally Strange’s motion.
@Audley:
I ♥ ♥ U 2.
@Caine:
I was tempted to make some really tasteless jokes here…
And The Guardian is one of the saner newspapers…
— — — — — —
After reading about all the corruption, mismanagement and sheer malice I often feel the way these singers look
The Prodigy – Firestarter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmin5WkOuPw
Peter Gabriel – Shock the Monkey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo9riZYUpTw
So wait, according to Grothe and company, calling both prominent female atheists personally and women generally whiners, liars, and sluts is not divisive? I mean if we’re going to be divisive, we should do it in the right direction. I guess their problem is that they’re the targets of this ‘divisiveness’ so they whine. Tip guys: Stop being assholes. Then you won’t take it personally when people call out assholes like you.
Indeed. It was awful.
Having just googled her, it seems she has some other very odd beliefs.
@Ms. Daisy:
Well done on the cards.
Now I have to flounce. And i really need to stick it. I have some deadlines today for getting in an application for tuition reduction at law school.
I’ll be back to play later.
Good.
Let the “manarchists” of the world howl about “honey traps.”
SallyStrange – I can’t think of Maddox as anything BUT the character from the Wrinkle in Time series.
The two tests of baby names: 1) see if you like it when you’re yelling it down the street at a kid in trouble
2) figure out all possible nicknames a mean kid could make of it.
Even your best plans can be foiled by the little rats, though. One of ours has a long name that we planned on using the usual nickname for, but he would have nothing to do with it. Don’t ask me how he managed to assert himself by the age of 3, especially as I don’t remember him ever saying explicitly that he didn’t like the nickname, and he will answer to it, but he is most definitely FULLNAME.
Also, I despise clothes shopping. I can put up with the whole fat clothes angle, but they’re all so damned tall. I stand next to a rack of pants, and the pants are all touching the floor, and the waists are at my freakin’ armpits. And I’m not really all that short.
Carlie: WORD. I am very short and none-too-thin, with an ass to boot, and clothes are clearly not made for me. Old Navy’s Sweetheart jeans fit me okay in the petite sizes, but even then the whole ass thing gets in the way.
From the article Lynna, OM cites:
I’m very naive about this. One of my puzzlemens out of that naivety: at a certain level of money, why the continued search for things like tax loopholes and offshore laundering and the payoff that further benefits the business interest?
If my wealth is $1 billion, what is the noticeable advantage of supporting a law or business practice or similar that allows me the addition of, let’s say, even just 1%. If my business netted $48 million last year, for example, and with a law or business practice that allows next years’ net to be somewhere around that amount plus another $480,000, how has my situation changed in a noticeable sense?
Did my annual costs for food increase to around $480,000 and I’ll need that to cover the change (and if so, what the fuck am I eating?)? Something else? After a certain point, is the increase in money on top of already amazing amounts of money even noticeable?
I guess maybe there’s always a new *something* to buy? Mode of transport? Property? Sports team?
I get that people like stuff. I like stuff, too. But is there no psychology of diminishing returns at a certain level of wealth? It’s always the hunger for more, even though at a certain point the extant amount exceeds standards of more by just about every conceivable measure? At $1 billion the psychological perception of the money is essentially unchanged from a time when it was $60,000 and even just $5,000 more would make a difference in medical care/education opportunity/upgrade of existing residence/travel/items of personal interest, etc.? Is it the socio-cultural “power” of the perception of the money that’s sufficient to encourage it’s pursuit even just for 1% more, or .1% more? Is it that the more money there is the easier it is to “jump the line” for things like medical care (need liver transplant, I’m further down the line, donate hospital wing, suddenly name at top of list?)?
Still learning,
Robert
And don’t get me fucking started on dresses. They’re usually literally as tall as I am (5’1″). FFS.
Re names: at some point during my gestation, everyone thought I was going to be biologically a girl. My mother really likes the name Leslie so that is what I was going to be called; there’s even a picture signed by THE Mickey Mouse, made out to Leslie.
When I turned out to be a boy, I assume my father balked at having a boy named Leslie so I received a name that, funnily enough, the short version would have worked for a girl too. Luckily for me, the combo of first name/last name that I ended up with is very hard to get results with if you’re attempting some online sleuthing on me. Plus one of the hockey teams that I follow has a player with the same name, so I get to pretend to be a superstar when they play.
Desert Son, you clearly don’t understand how this money thing works. it’s not for buying stuff, though that’s a nice benefit. it’s how you keep score. and who wants to be booted off the High-Score list after putting in that much effort to get on it in the first place?
Audley – Max is a fine name. As long as his last name doesn’t make him sound like a superhero-wannabe. True story – a co-worker of mine chose Max if they had a boy. His last name would have been Powers. I was glad they had a girl.
Walton @317: How convenient it is, to say that the only people who really can exercise any kind of agency in any noble fashion are lesbian ciswomen. Not at ALL controlling, Sheila Jeffreys.
Totally tangential aside @ Ogvorbis – I know a woman Alex too, and afaik she’s never had that “what’s it short for” reaction. Maybe it’s a regional thing?
I assume my father balked at having a boy named Leslie
I thought Leslie was one of those names that could go either way, though I’ve more often heard it as a girl’s name recently.
Predator Handshake:
Heh. I was supposed to be Robert Joseph. They didn’t even once consider the possibility that I would show up on the planet female.
Desert Son:
As the old saying goes, a millionaire is just a frustrated billionaire.
At a certain point, wealth is no longer about practicality. It’s about keeping score.
Handful of genetic changes led to huge changes to human brain http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-05-genetic-huge-human-brain.html
Yep. I’ve only got most of an inch on you. I don’t mind having them hemmed, but when those stupid underboob empire waist crap styles (which are almost all you can find anymore) hit just about an inch above the waist, it’s just not right. Dresses are what I’m in the market for at the moment, because I’m supposed to officiate (squee!) a wedding in a couple of months. I think I might try out eshakti – I’ve heard good things from similarly-shaped bloggers online, although I haven’t seen any of their goods in person.
dianne @330: you’re absolutely right; it would make a bit more sense if you knew my father. That shortened version of my name that I mentioned I’ve gone by since I was a little kid? A great deal of the reason for that was that he worried if I went by the full version of the name, people would occasionally call me another short version of it that he didn’t like. My dad is really weird when it comes to names.
And I’ll add, as someone who has been at different economic scales (though never that high), one’s perceptions of finances really does change.
There have been times in my life when I literally counted every cent, when I knew to within pennies how much money I had in the bank. Then, that shifted to dollars, then rounding to tens. It’s something we all do: our perspective shifts to values that are convenient to our lives.
These people often round to hundreds of millions. As in, “Oh, go ahead and buy that company, it’s only a couple hundred mil.” Or, “We can eat that loss, it’s less than a hundred mil.” If we added up the wages of everyone in this thread and multiplied by 10, we’d still be within their rounding error.
I had a very strange experience buying a dress the other day. I tried on a dress and it looked better on me than it did on the hanger. Not a reflection on my beauty, which is minimal at best, but possibly a hopeful sign for the fashion industry’s recognition that most women aren’t actually shaped like clothes hangers. Or maybe just a fluke.
Just saying hi to everyone, after putting in a few short but hopefully pithy comments in the “Simple guidelines” thread.
I’ve got some nice fresh *hugs* if anyone needs ’em.
Ms. Daisy Cutter: I’m honored to have contributed to one of your cards! *grins like a fool*
I believe it was on Wait, Wait! Don’t tell me! a couple of weeks ago that they were talking about how much money you’d pick up if it was on the sidewalk. The speaker said that they were finally at a point in their life when they wouldn’t pick up a dime (too much effort for that amount of money), but would still pick up a quarter. Scaling that to Bill Gates’ salary, proportionally he wouldn’t pick up anything less than $45k.
The speaker said that they were finally at a point in their life when they wouldn’t pick up a dime (too much effort for that amount of money), but would still pick up a quarter.
In the other direction, at least on the east coast (of the US), even the homeless people won’t bother to pick up a penny. The streets are lined with copper: the pennies get crushed into them by cars and stuck there forever or until the next road repair. Now can we please admit that pennies are worth nothing and get rid of them?
I pick up pennies. Every time. Even when it means the people behind me trip over me.
No.
This has been this week’s edition of Simple Answers to Simple Questions! Thank you for playing.
Jadehawk and Richard Austin,
Thanks for the replies. I see the status aspect of keeping score, and that’s particularly interesting because it can be so culture-specific. A person with $1 billion in cash/assets, but no cattle, might be considered pathetically dirt poor in northern Kenya, and conversely the $1 billion-er visiting northern Kenya might wonder why the locals don’t give up the herding game and go into something more lucrative, like investment banking.
And I get the aspect that perception of money changes with changes in financial situation. I have experienced those, too. That’s why I asked. I think part of my naivety is projecting that, at a certain level of money, the perceptual window on that money seems harder to maintain. But maybe not?
At a worth of $1 billion, maybe someone doesn’t even notice that a loaf of bread costs $1.25, or maybe they just buy the bread company and get bread for free having folded the company into their assets?
Still learning,
Robert
Alright, everyone please yell at me: Get the fuck back to work, needle slave!
Thank you.
Desert Son:
The “average” person who is worth $1 billion probably can’t even tell you how much a loaf of bread costs.
I was driving home from West Hollywood through Beverly Hills one night when I was about 21. I stopped at a gas station I always used and saw a lady standing at the pump and just looking at her car. I went inside, paid cash, came back out and started pumping gas – and she was still just staring at her car.
So, I asked, “Did you need some help?”
She got a little startled, looked at me for a second (I think she was sizing me up), then meekly said, “This is going to sound a little silly, but I’ve never pumped gas before.”
Now, she had to be mid to late 40s, and she was driving a Mercedes that was at least a few years old (quick license-plate math on my part), so this made me suspicious. But I just asked, “Excuse me?”
She said that she had just separated from her husband that week and was out driving around when the light came on in her car. She knew of gas stations, obviously, but didn’t know how they worked as, generally, her husband or “one of his men” would keep it full for her.
It could have been a line, of course, but I played the fool and helped her out. She paid for the gas, I pumped it for her while she stood there watching me do it all and appearing interested, then she got in the car and drove away.
This is, quite seriously, the world these people live in. It looks nothing like the world the rest of us see. I was talking to some people online earlier today about the “tricks” one can play with airline miles and such so that, if one is careful, one never really has to buy another plane ticket to anywhere – but the tricks are all based on having money and decent credit and such.
The game is rigged so that people who have money don’t have to spend it as often to get the same benefits we have to pay for. Even when they do, they’re not aware of it – it just happens. And because pretty much all of their day-to-day expenses are less than a mental rounding error, they never see them.
I pick up pennies. Every time.
Want to come to NYC and clean the streets up a little? The copper shine reflects the sun in odd ways and is a driving/biking/walking hazard. I fear it will not be worth your time, though, since you can make more money by standing on the corner and asking for spare change, much less what you could make with a regular job.
Robert:
Have you noticed that billionaires are rare? This may have something to do with the conundrum being discussed. I think at 50 mil a lot of people would simply assume that’s more than they can ever spend.
So some get obscenely rich because an investment really, really worked out, but they would have been happy if it only really worked out.
But others *might* get obscenely rich because that circuit that limits the importance of money never kicks in – or maybe some other circuit about “winning” drives them without regard to economic welfare. In any case, these folks are rich in part because they don’t function like most others. It’s really hard, I imagine, for those with 40 or 60 mil to bother to care about maximizing individual profit (though one might care that a company you own does well just so it doesn’t go bankrupt). But there are rare people who would not only care but see a few score of millions of $$ to be only a lever to pry free a few hundreds – which are then used to pry free 1 billion or more, etc.
Anyway, I think that you’re assuming that they have brains that think like others’ brains, when that isn’t currently in evidence.
Because whoever dies with the most money wins. The monetary worth is a substitute for penis size in a ‘who’s gotta bigger dick’ contest.
Could be. My guess is that, in the bible belt, a girl with a boy’s name is automatically suspect.
No. The millionaires and billionaires with substantial interest in zinc mines would get upset and stop creating jobs.
Sili: Speak for yourself. Canada’s phasing out the useless things.
Caine: get the Freud back to work.
Now kindly return the favor – I took a break while I was eating, but I finished almost 10 min ago and had to finish catching up…and then comment…
back to work on law school stuff – it’s only to make a difference of 10s of thousands in final debt load, not that important anyway.
It’s interesting, because my daughter has a name out of a particular mythos that is almost universally given to girls. However, it does very occasionally appear on a dude, and there happens to be a very well-known male actor who has that name. I was flabbergasted by how many people told me that it was actually a dude name, considering that it’s one of the most well-known female characters in literature.
Because whoever dies with the most money wins.
I never understood this one. If I were, say, an 80 year old billionaire, I’d start to think something like, “I’m going to fucking die soon and this money won’t prevent it…or will it?” and start spending my money on researching life extension therapies. Why doesn’t anyone do that? They just let themselves die without even trying to save themselves. What gives? Or have I just revealed why I’ll never be a billionaire, bar inflation?
Desert Son, what Jadehawk and Richard Austin said.
I think another huge aspect of the resistance of many wealthy people to a more fair tax rate is the determination not to allow their dollars to be redistributed to help the less wealthy in any way. As you said, they would not miss that 45k if it was lost through a stupid investment or misplaced by the bank – but to knowingly hand it over to the government to be used for social programs is what seems to get the goat of many. (refer to the many “bootstraps” arguments, the resentment of affirmative action, the contempt for government employees, the demand for “austerity” via cutting of social services to the poor and the disabled…) :(
Crip Dyke:
Ta. Get to work on law school stuff! Now!
Caine and Crip Dyke, get back to it!! (Good luck, Crip Dyke, I hope you can reduce that debt load. And Caine, I see Bender’s Duckie has a head now!! :D Love love love that project and am so admiring your stitchwork).
Famously, George Bush the senior was at an opening of a grocery store and was flummoxed by the sight of a cashier scanner. He had never seen one. He was then quizzed on, I believe, the price of a gallon of milk and had no idea.
And these are the people who we allow to set economic policy for everyone, when the median income is somewhere around 30k/yr.
Louis is being rather fantastic in the Simple Guidelines thread, and is currently the bright spot to my otherwise excruciating afternoon. (Why the fuck do my pain pills give me heartburn that hurts as bad as what made me take the fucking pills in the first place? Who thought that up?)
Crip Dyke and LDTR: Thanks!
Desert Son:
Other people have explained it well, but what I was going to say was this: You have it, and someone else doesn’t. That’s really all it is.
On the other end of the spectrum, their useful idiots would be happy living in a box under a bridge and eating shit, so long as [certain “unworthy” people, unlike themselves] had neither a box to live in nor shit to eat.
I pick up pennies, too.
Caine:
Wow.
Carlie: I fucking hate Empire waists. Hate, hate, hate.
Aw, damn. Snopes, y u no verify my story?
Right now, I’m imagining Caine with her sewing in her hands, but refreshing the page constantly to see if anyone is yelling at her, and what they’re yelling.
Caine:
No worries there. The closest thing we have to a family member’s name in either list is my great grandmama’s middle name and she’s long dead.
Carlie:
I like those! So far, my criteria has been:
1) Can I spell it*?
2) Does this sound plausible: “Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ______ Darkheart”?
*I’m dyslexic and I’m not a huge fan of the deliberate misspellings of names (y replacing i, etc). So, that’s narrowed quite a bit down!
Dalillama:
Well, duh. We don’t count, silly!
Carlie:
Um, yeah. I’d give my left boob for a pair of pants that both fits my waist and were long enough. (And don’t get me started on maternity pants! Full length pants are fucking clamdiggers on me!)
The more I hear other ladies complain, the more I realize that clothes are being made for a very small subset of women. :(
ImaginesABeach:
Ha! I’d almost be more inclined to name the DF Max if we had a cool, powerful last name!
Caine:
You heard the lady! Get back to work!
;)
Just to clarify, I have a regular job. I can afford to pass the pennies by. Or I can pick them up and put them in my “for others” jar.
Richard Austin, Crip Dyke, Ogvorbis, niftyatheist,
Thanks for the follow-up and additional information. I’m still having some cognitive dissonance, but that’s on me and I think because it’s exactly what Crip Dyke mentioned: I’m projecting assumptions. Thanks again, all.
Still learning,
Robert
I really like the suggestion of seeing how the name sounds when you yell it. GirlChild’s name (when using first and middle names) is perfectly formed for hollering. BoyChild’s name is too long to use both first and middle. I wish someone had told me…
Cute.
Pretending that ‘Canada’ is a real country.
Nifty:
Yes! Yes, yes, yes. Now Duckie needs the bod, which Duckie isn’t gonna get if I keep typing. Gah.
Rey:
To a T. Not enough yelling!
Audley:
Yes ‘M! As soon as I go check on the potatoes and get more coffee and…
Desert Son:
I think it perhaps does you credit that you can’t get past that dissonance. That kind of mentality is dangerous, and even being able to slip into it for perspective scares me.
Robert, another thing – and I am thinking this through myself, btw, so feel free to argue against – I think part of the resistance to taxpayer-funded social safety net and social services or (gods forbid!) redistribution of wealth to make society slightly more egalitarian is — it will make society more egalitarian! As others have said “He who has the most toys when he dies wins” was not only a pithy “inspiration” poster: there is a real sense of competition (duh), and I think some element of the uber-wealthy mindset is resistance to anyone else gaining ground relative to themselves and certainly not through redistribution of a tiny portion of their own enormous wealth.
Ms. Daisy Cutter,
Only just now read your addition about vexing money and my thanks for that note, as well. That helps put more perspective on the status aspect that Jadehawk, Richard Austin, Ogvorbis, and niftyatheist reinforced: at a certain point, the money itself is just a placeholder for a socially-mediated condition of “value,” and really, as long as the socially-mediated contest of that value is somehow “won” it almost doesn’t matter whether it’s cash or gold bars or housing developments or a cardboard box, as long as someone else (preferably everyone else) looks at the placeholder and thinks “I wish I had that,” while the possessor of the placeholder enjoys the knowledge that the someone else isn’t likely to get it.
Still learning,
Robert
Rent a flat above a shop,
cut your hair and get a job.
Smoke some fags and play some pool,
pretend you never went to school.
But still you’ll never get it right,
cos when you’re laid in bed at night,
watching roaches climb the wall,
if you call your Dad he could stop it all.
You’ll never live like common people,
you’ll never do what common people do,
you’ll never fail like common people,
you’ll never watch your life slide out of view,
and dance and drink and screw,
because there’s nothing else to do.
Common People by Pulp
Just to clarify, I have a regular job. I can afford to pass the pennies by. Or I can pick them up and put them in my “for others” jar.
That’s nice. Never imagined otherwise, in fact. But picking up pennies is a money losing proposition. You can make 750 cents an hour if you work for minimum wage. I just test dropped a penny and it took me eight seconds to pick it up. Let’s say I’m slow and it would take the average person 6 seconds to see and pick up a penny in a street filled with pennies. That’s ten per minute, 600 per hour. In other words, less than minimum wage. It’s literally not worth your time. Unless it amuses you, of course. Then it’s a cheap and readily available hobby.
In any case, whether one should or shouldn’t pick up pennies, no one does do it in any of the eastern cities I’ve been in. The pennies get embedded in the pavement and become part of the street. The streets aren’t paved with gold, but they are paved with copper.
Of course, I live in the city with the world’s highest concentration of toynbee tiles so what do I know about what’s normal or abnormal in a street?
Fuck, but am I ever getting sick of the neighbor’s yappy, stupid, untrained dogs.
I just had to break up my third ‘thru the fence’ dogfight in about a week. There she was, my sweet little 20 lb ‘runt of the litter’ australian cattle dog, desperately trying to chew through a chainlink fence so she can go maul a boxer and a bulldoggy looking mongrel. I’ll never forget that mental image. She was literally trying to chew through it, pulling desperately at vines and wires with her teeth.
The thing that really pisses me off? When it happens, we walk right down to the fence, grab our dog by the collar, and escort her away from the scene of battle. What do the neighbors do? “CHASE! DIESEL! COME. HERE! CHAAAASE! DIEEEESEL! COME HERE! *pounding on something* CHASE! DIIIIIEEEEEESEL!” in an increasingly frantic voice.
It’s very easy to hate those two dogs, but it’s the owners who let them stand there at the fence and bark endlessly at everyone in their own backyard for hours at a time. So really, I feel sorry for them. They COULD have been good, well adjusted, likeable dogs, but instead they’re a pair of canine idiots who’ll probably get seized as soon as the SPCA receives enough complaints.
I think the trouble here is the lack of all-caps. CAINE, GET BACK TO YOUR DUCKIE SEWING RIGHT GOD DAMNED NOW GOD DAMN IT!
TLC, irresponsible, stupid as a bag a hair dog owners drive me bugfuck. Gotta couple of those across the back road from us. Idiots.
Godsdamn. Yes, Rey!
Oh yeah. I have a friend who is very tall and skinny, the kind of body shape that actual models are, and she even has to order all of her pants online because nothing in the store fits her, either.
Empire waists can die in a fire. My waist is the only decent part of my body shape, and they erase it entirely.
Is there such a thing? The more syllables, the more volume you can build up. :)
Caine, there’s something absolutely intolerable about a pair of dogs barking and growling at you like some kind of burglar or intruder when you’re just puttering around in your OWN backyard.
I’ll also point out right here that no matter how angry those stupid mutts make me, the worst I ever did in retaliation was spray them with a garden hose.
That’s what happens when you view society (and life) as some sort of zero-sum game.
I think also inherent in the conservative mind is the tendency to think in terms of “principles” and to test ideas in a very superficial way by seeing how well they match those principles. Those principles mostly end up being platitudes and talking points, but they always sound so self-evident when you ignore deeper implications and consequences. “Accruing wealth: good” is about as deep as it gets. The fact that, beyond a certain point, that wealth will make no actual difference in the quality of your life is one of those pesky consequences, consideration of which can lead you astray.
Well, we know Canadian pennies are useless. We Americans learn that as schoolchildren.
Carlie:
Yes there it. My first name has four syllables and no matter how angry/frightened my parents were, I never heard it in conjunction with my middle name (one syllable).
My sisters all got the first name/middle name yell, though.
I think I can actually top the shitty-dog-owner story.
A woman who live downstairs from us (we live in apartments) used to take her dog to relieve itself every morning, and she wouldn’t even step out of her front door. She had the dog relieve itself on the cement right outside of her apartment, on the post to the stairs that I have to climb every day to get in and out. The stench was terrible and our apartments ignored it for a couple of weeks (despite my eventually emailing them a piss picture a day) because she was moving and they couldn’t violate her privacy by telling us. I’m still pissed that they didn’t even say it was being addressed.
Incidentally, this woman sat behind me in an archaeology class last semester and I wanted to punch her stupid fucking face every day. How hard is it to send your dog to the fucking grass? It was no farther away from the door than the cement and the post! Jesus.
That was a year ago, thankfully.
Hang in there on your recovery Lynna. Every stroke and every recovery is different; at least that’s what the Redhead’s therapists keep saying. Keep working and pushing slightly at the edges of what you can do.
*cracks the whip at Caine*
Still no writing. :( But on the plus side…just put supper in the oven. Heart-healthy northern fried chicken – and when it’s ready, lightly steamed fresh asparagus, tender-crisply steamed carrots and fluffy mashed potatoes! Top that Josh and Ogvorbis! :D
That’s awful, Jennifer.
I would have been tempted to bag it up and set it on fire on her doorstep, but that would be too much like ‘cleaning up after it for her’ I suppose.
Well, we know Canadian pennies are useless. We Americans learn that as schoolchildren.
Sorry. I know what you mean, but the literalist in me just has to point out that the conversion between US and Canadian currency right now is about 1:1.
I couldn’t resist leaving JT a message on his “What a GREAT ally I am!” post.
Look it up before it disappears!
Happiestsadist, #357,
Oh you are too kind. And to repay your kindness I will ask “what sort of painkillers” and put my money on some form of COX-2 inhibitor.
Louis
put my money on some form of COX-2 inhibitor.
I’m thinking more likely a non-specific COX inhibitor myself, but wouldn’t rule out an opiate. They can be nasty on the stomach too.
Watch, it’ll be a real weirdy like tramadol.
Lynna, at least to me, you sound very much like your old self in what you post, but I realize it probably feels very different from your perspective. *hugs*
Audley, consider this another *unsolicited* vote for Max.
Caine, get back to work on the wonderful Darkheart Duckie Project. ♥
Dianne,
Ooooh good call, good call!
Louis
I’ve changed my mind about atheism. Mo’s god is clearly the right one. Especially if he’s offering to make the curry.
I just bought some Bowen Island Breweries “Blond Hemp Ale”.
I’m about to drink my second can. A few thoughts:
As an unrepentant pothead, I’m fairly qualified to say what pot tastes like, and this definitely doesn’t taste like reefer.
That said, what is it supposed to taste like? Why does it even contain ‘hemp’ at all? Is there a reason? I note the can bears a large image of a pot-leaf, and this makes me think they’re just marketing it to that subset of ‘stoner culture’ who seem to absolutely define themselves by pot and ‘pot products’, those hopheads who will buy literally anything if it has a pot-leaf emblazoned on it*.
You might think by my critique that I don’t like the beer. Actually I do. Poor to nonexistent head, granted, but a nice lively carbonation and a good rich refreshing taste (which still doesn’t resemble pot in any way). Also, at 10.50 a sixpack, a real bargain. Overall I’m quite impressed with Bowen Island Breweries in general, they make very high-quality beers for ‘cheapo beer’ prices.
*The stupidest pot-product I ever saw in my life: Weed Incense. Make your entire apartment smell like you’ve been smoking an ounce of good Kush, without actually getting high at all! Seriously, wtf.
TLC,
Take an ounce of cannabis resin, chop up into little bits, put in bottle of vodka, wait a year, drink vodka.
INSTANT WHITEY!
Apparently.
This Cannabis User message was brought to you by the Dominos Pizza Corporation. Dominos, feeding shitty pizza to wasted stoners since…well fuck they can’t remember can they?
Louis
I tried that Louis, but I assumed it would happen quick and drank it after two weeks or so.
Here’s the weird bit: I thought the vodka would turn green. But, no, it turned fucking halloween orange.
I will try it again though now that I know that the ingredient I was lacking was ‘patience’.
Oh also I was using lightly toasted buds, not pot resin (I was told you had to ‘cook’ THC a bit to activate it, but apparently the scienticians here at FTB have informed me that that’s not strictly necessary).
TLC,
Nope it’s not necessary at all.
THC isn’t very water soluble though, even in a 40% alcohol/water solution it’s not great. “Neat” alcohol (or Everclear) is better. The smaller the bits, the greater the amount of resin used, the faster you’ll reach saturated solutions in water. BUUUUUT The more alcohol as a proportion of the solution, the more THC goes into solution.
Again, purely hypothetically, officer. A friend of mine told me. I never tried this. Also I never made sure to keep the solution out of direct sunlight and well sealed in a cool dry place.
I want that abundantly clear when this goes to court.
Louis
Louis, isn’t it about 1 am in Britain? Shouldn’t you be asleep by now? Or are you just an evil alien that doesn’t need sleep like all the other employees of pharma?
Dianne, based on your time study, I will continue to pick up pennies. I’m rarely in such a rush that I can’t spare 8 seconds to pick up a penny. And I’m sure as shit not getting a part time job…
Dianne,
It’s only 12am, I am a raving insomniac, and also a vicious arse of the first water. I get through the day with a combination of optimism, bile and caffeine. It makes for interesting results.
Also, I’m off shortly.
Louis
Louis: The strongest stuff I’ve seen around here is bacardi 151. I suppose I’ll have to use that stuff (75% ABV)
I drank a few straight shots of that once on a camping trip. It literally burned my lips. I then poured a shot of it into a plastic bottle, sealed the lid, and stuck it upside down in the fire.
FWOOOM! 20 feet straight up, at least. When a shot of the stuff you’re drinking works as functional rocket fuel, perhaps it’s time to learn the word ‘moderation’.
@398: Have fun.
@399: Good night.
No. It’s Midnight.
It’s 1 am here.
Dianne,
Goodnight!
Although I have a shot of calvados I am still slowly nursing.
Louis
P.S. TLC, yeah booze = rocket fuel is always good. Makes the similes used in morning after stories so much more accurate…if you survive.
Sili,
You’re in Foreign!?
{Gasp}
Oh the Huge Manatee!
Louis
is it scientifically possible to drink enough hard liquor that your burps become flammable the same way some farts are? I’ve always thought that would be cool.
TLC,
I have no idea. But I know a “laboratory” in which we can find oooooouuuuut!
Quick, Robin, to the Bat Off Licence!
Louis
Actually, given that you can light vapours in your mouth after, say, sambuca, yeah I reckon it’s possible.
Louis
Utterly threadrupt, having read only about a dozen comments from sometime yesterday (@60-something, et seq.) and the last handful here at the bottom of the list. This will be a bit of a drive-by, as the fam is preparing to go off on a trip in a couple days, but…
First: I just want to report that I’m now the parent of a college graduate, which feels a little bit like my own graduation, in a sense. Not that one ever stops being a parent while one’s spawn still breathe, but I have this sense that my wife and I have now successfully discharged the Primary Mission™ of parenthood. Not without a lot of help from privilege, luck, and good genes, of course, but at least we didn’t fuck it up too badly along the way.
Second: I infer from passing comments that Enormously Consequential Shit® has been going down in the FtBverse lately, but I am fatally uninformed as to its nature and details, so I will keep my virtual yap shut and restrict my comments to ephemera. To wit…
Third: Re “I, myself…,” I am entirely in agreement with AE @69, Page 1 —
…which means I also think Chas (@72) is almost 180° wrong when he says…
The way AE describes the usage (which is the way I use the phrase, too, on the rare occasions I use it), it has the effect of deliberately pointing out that the speaker’s point of view is just one among many that might also be considered… which is to say, it’s anti-narcissistic.
Using I or myself when me would be correct is, I think, a different phenomenon: a heightened (albeit mistaken) attention to “correctness” rooted in fundamental insecurity about language skills… which can be socially unattractive, but isn’t really the same thing as narcissism.
I see “I, for one…” as being roughly equivalent to “Personally, I…,” and read both as meaning something like “what follows is my own perspective; I recognize there are others.” I agree the expression would probably get (and deserve) a red mark in formal/academic writing, but you probably shouldn’t be using first person in that kind of writing in the first place, no? Conversation (or writing that is intentionally conversational in style and tone) is a whole ‘nother kettle of horses of another color.
Last: Desert Son, re why the super-rich continue to care about getting richer…. I recall Frank Lorenzo, a union-busting corporate raider who cut a swath through the airline industry in the 70s and 80s. I remember watching a news story about his corporate headquarters being protested, with him “trapped” in his nth-story office suite while the building was surrounded by working people screaming the most (eminently deserved) hateful things at him, and I wondered why it was worth it to him? He already had enough money to spend the rest of his life lighting cigars with $1000 bills, so how could it be worth being so despised? Why not just give the protestors what they wanted and walk away? How could the next dollar really mean anything?
And then it occurred to me that people who think like I was thinking and ask those sorts of questions are not the sort of people who pile up that much money to begin with… and I stopped trying to understand the unfathomable.
***
Sometime next week I’ll be (finally) back to something like a “normal” schedule, and I’ll try to get back in the Pharyngula swing then. ‘Til then… ta!
Louis and Dianne: Dianne wins, it’s one of those awful, shitty codeine/aspirin ones. And I still feel like I got punched in the diaphragm. From inside. And my damn doctor doesn’t want to refer me to a pain clinic, because they might give me helpful medicine.
EW. Sambucca.
Friends foisted that shit on me once. “No you don’t get it, this shit is SO SMOOTH it’s barely like drinking at all!”
Yuck. Every shot had to be forced down, and when the inevitable puking happened, it was literally explosive. I nearly puked on a friend. I don’t like doing stuff like that. I’m not ‘that guy’.
I can easily imagine certain people loving it, but I’m not one of those people. Somehow, the black licorice and alcohol combined in the worst possible way, and though I knew it was safe, my body was screaming “POOOOOOIIIISOOOOOOON!!!!”
But I have a new appreciation for beers these days. Beer is a refreshing beverage, a relatively safe and mild intoxicant, and a light snack all in one can.
codeine/aspirin
My stomach lining is attempting to crawl into my esophagus at the thought of codeine + aspirin. Fun fact about codeine: Depending on the specifics of how your liver metabolizes it, it might turn into loads of morphine for you or it might have be completely inactive in your body. I don’t like codeine much. My sympathies that you’re stuck with that combination. Any chance of changing doctors or are you in an HMO sort of situation?
I concede defeat!
Aspirin is more selective for COX-1 inhibition and modifies the behaviour of COX-2, hence I think you’re right, I emphasised “some form of COX-2 inhibitor” and Dianne went with “non-specific COX inhibition”, her answer is the closest, she wins the internet.
Thought of ibuprofen instead of aspirin? Less nasty on the stomach…just!
ouis
There not that big. About 25 cm, I think.
Ibuprofen wrecks my stomach too. As does naproxen.
I’m going to keep hassling my doctor to give me some real symptom management while they try to figure out WTF is making me hurt so much and how to fix it. (We’re on the fifth or so theory.)
On the plus side, I got some new nail polishes, so I at least have some distraction.
Hmmm naproxen was my next suggestion. Do you eat honey? Do you have ulcers? Or colitis?
Louis
Max Powerrrrrrrrrrrrr
that’s the man who’s name you’d love to touch,
but you mustn’t touch!
Haven’t had honey in a few weeks, and no to the other two.
I’ve been mostly otherwise managing my pain with heat, pressure and hating absolutely everything that isn’t those two things or a provider thereof.
His name sounds nice in your ear…
BUT when you say it, YOU MUSTN’T FEEEEEAR!
For his name can be said by anyooooone…
Hmmmmm. I am not that sort of doctor, but I have come to the expert medical opinion of…see a medic!
Get a second opinion.
Louis
P.S. I was thinking that if it was ulcers, honey can actually help. As can antibiotics. I hope you get better though, it sounds rough.
I’ve got one, but things are moving slowly, and as I said, for some reason he won’t refer me to any kind of pain management. The issue itself is increasingly severe pelvic pain and it’s not cysts, tumours, endo or everything else they’ve checked for, and it’s been going on for like 14 years now.
Also, he’s full of woo. I’m looking for another.
Happiestsadist,
I prescribe new doctor, STAT!
Good luck in your hunt.
[Luca Brasi from Godfather voice]
May your next doctor be a capable doctor.
[/Luca Brasi from Godfather voice]
Louis
It’s for training naive parents to associate the smell of pot with incense. Then the teenager can smoke pot in the house without attracting undue attention.
Old, old trick. Probably as old as Chas.
Pitbull: That’s the only explanation for that shit existing that I’ve ever seen that’s even a little plausible.
Why rich people try to get ever richer: Calvinism. If you’re among the elect, God shows it by making you successful. Successful throughout your life, not just the moment you first acquire wealth. God doesn’t merely make you rich if you’re predestined for heaven, he makes you ever richer.
I don’t think many rich people believe that anymore, but such crap usually develops a dynamic of its own. Plenty of Catholics and atheists share the Protestant Work Ethic nowadays.
Seconded.
Comment 306 also seconded.
I presume this is an appropriate place to have a rant.
I have just got off the phone with my partner who was in tears.
Our 3 month old daughter is on oxygen and has tubes stuck on her face. She has this because our son died 18 months ago from SIDS and she has lower levels of oxygen.
She is otherwise healthy.
As my partner was getting out of her car at a shopping centre a women approached her and said
“There is obviously something wrong with your baby. Can we pray for you”.
CHRISTIANS – WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU! DO YOU NOT REALISE YOUR BULLSHIT HURTS PEOPLE! FUCK OFF AND DIE!
HappiestSadist: Actually… that makes a bit of sense.
My parents were naive like that. Everything they know about marijuana, they know from me.
I’m such a good educator that my dad now keeps a bag in a box in his garage, complete with a nice little handmade wooden pipe he whittled up.
Apparently, it helps with his numerous physical pains and issues in a way that normal medication just can’t.
My mom tried it twice with me, but just decided it wasn’t her thing.
Koshka: That is completely beyond the fucking pale, and I truly hope that your baby does well. I cannot imagine how terrible that must be. I also fully consider it your prerogative to say precisely that to anyone who says anything like “let us pray for you” to you.
Oh Louis. My crush on you has been growing stronger and stronger, but now that you’ve revealed that you’re wise in the ways of marijuana infusion of hard liquor, I’m afraid that Groop Secks ™ with you simply isn’t enough. Are there any openings in your harem?
(The fact that just talking about intoxicants make me horny just shows what low moral character I have, which is further evidence that we belong together. In your vast seraglio, of course.)
That’s appalling, Koshka.
My sympathy on your daughter. I hope she grows to be strong, healthy, and far too fucking smart for ‘prayer’.
Koshka, that’s fucking terrible.
SallyStrange,
Luckily, there are always openings for ladies of your calibre.
And that, for once, was not a sex joke. See I can do serious. Well…serious-ish.
Intoxicated sex can be quite a good laugh in the right company. So I’ve heard. Caine told me. I’ve never done it. Honest. Especially not on mushrooms. Or acid. That’s right out and I want that absolutely clear.
Louis
She’s trolling, isn’t she?
Hi, Bill! Congrats!
As for the Enormously Consequential Shit®…. eight hundredth verse, same as the first.
Koshka, I am so, so sorry about your son.
The woman at the shopping center…aside from the uselessness of prayer, there’s no need to ask for permission unless she wants you to know what A Good Person she is. I mean, she could have just prayed in her closet, right?
Koshka, I am so sorry about your son.
Re those insensitive fools at the shopping mall – I hope your partner is able to get over the shock of such grossly intrusive, offensive behavior now that she’s had a chance to vent to you on the phone about it.
WTF is wrong with these people?
niftyatheist—
I couldn’t top that even if I wanted to, being a big ol’ bottom (whoops!) but I def. want that recipe.
Koshka, #425,
That is horrendous. I…
Look at this point nothing I can say is good enough. You have my most profound sympathies, I have no concept of how hard this must all be for you.
My thoughts are with you, I only wish I could actually do something.
Louis
Bill #408, Congratulations on the young Dauphin’s graduation! A proud day for your family.
Oh, Koshka, how awful on every count. You’re right to want to rant.
I’m sorry the doctors are not being helpful, HappiestSadist. I hope you get what you need soon.
—
Koshka, I’m so sorry! This is definitely the right place to rant. What insensitive assholes. Fuck.
—
SGBM, if you’re around and haven’t already seen it, I’m trying to get at the discussion where you offered some data about homophobic use of “butthurt.” Sorry to be annoying, but is there any way you could help me out with that? I found a cached Endless Thread where it was discussed, but that linked to something that wasn’t cached, and… gah.
—
Caine, GO WORK ON YOUR DUCKIES! It’s so hard to sound authoritative while saying “Duckies.”
PZ’z Guidelines post appears to be a COX inhibitor to some.
Caine, QWACK!
Koshka: I’m so sorry about your son, and that person was such an asshole. You have my sympathies.
Louis: I think I might be among the few who is not actually interested in mushroom-sex. I mean, I found it fun, but only as much fun as having my head rubbed or drinking ice water or petting the cat. (So very fun, but needing much more coordination than the other two.) Mushroom makeouts, on the other hand… But then, I also feel making out is one of the more underrated things one can do with another.
TLC: If my antidepressants didn’t play very badly with pot, I’d definitely be seeking that out for my pain issues.
Josh (434) – Oh goody! I hoped by dangling the mental vision of that tasty dish before your eyes you would ask! :D (yes, shameless I know) I don’t often get to swan about basking in the culinary spotlight (Mr, Nifty does the fancy cookery around here – I take care of daily nuts and bolts and holidays), so sometimes I really have to work for it!
I will email it to you because it is long (don’t worry – only because the sekrit special seasoning requires lots of ingredients – but the good news is you make a batch of it, put it in a jar in the refrigerator and you’re good for months!).
Louis: I would have done something. I have no problem saying vicious, nasty things to proselytizers. I like to imagine my raggy, more-than-slightly feral, long-haired, unshaven appearance makes it all sound even nastier.
It might be a slightly self destructive habit, but I like looking just a bit ‘vicious’ and untamed and ‘dangerous to approach’.
I have no idea how successful I am at it, but on the recent huge group camping trip one friend referred to me as ‘sasquatch’ a lot, and another called me ‘a modern day barbarian’ several times when introducing me to people.
RAWR.
Yay!
BY YOUR PAVLOVIAN COMMAND.
I am about to engage in an angry gamer rant. Apologies in advance.
I am a gamer, and somewaht of a geek. I admit it freely. I enjoy many different types of games, and when it comes to the computer variety I manage (for the most part) to enjoy the medium despite its nauseating tendencies toward the same ridiculous depiction of female characters, where impossible body proportions and crass sexualisation is the norm.
It annoys me, at times it disgusts me, but for the most part I still enjoy games.
But every now and then something comes along that makes me ashamed to be a gamer – something that plumbs new depths of hideous, commercialised misogyny.
This is one of those days. I have just seen a trailer for a forthcoming title called Hitman: Absolution that is perhaps the single worst example of misogyny in computer gaming that I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. And that is saying a lot. I include a link so that you have some idea of what I am talking about, but I do not advise that you watch it.
Suffice to say that the trailer conspires, in a disgustingly gleeful and gratuitous manner, to combine taking the excessive, stereotypical sexualisation of female charcaters to new and ridiculous lows with grotesque violence performed against those characters. Pretty much every misogynist trope one can think of is trotted out somewhere along the line. The comments beneath the video are even worse – all glib morons glorying in the violence while at being at best oblivious to the misogyny inherent in it, and at worst actively enjoying it. Not only is the industry broken, it seems that a substantial fraction of its followers and customers are too.
The level of misogyny is in some ways worsened because I know this franchise, and in the case of all prior instalments this bears absolutely no relationship to the actual game content whasoever. The games are violent, yes, but they are of the more intricate stripe of stealth game and, other than the usual ridiculous female character design that afflicts gaming at large, the franchise does not have any particular history of such heinous misogyny. Hitman fans are, to the best of my knowledge, no more misogynist that other gamers (though, given advertising such as this, I am beginning to wonder whether that is saying much), but this trailer plays into every negative stereotype of gamers and gamer culture I have ever encountered. I cannot fathom what the marketing team thought they were doing. Who on earth were they trying to appeal to with this abomination?
Just another depressing slice of pop culture misogyny for you – business as usual, I am sad to say. I am starting to wonder, in all seriousness, if it is even possible to be an ethical gamer when the industry is so rotten to the core with such a cromagnon attitude toward women.
Some mormons who have finally had enough are organizing a mass resignation from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
I like the idea. A mass resignation will get some media coverage.
http://resignmormon.blogspot.com/
They will be signing a Declaration of Independence from Mormonism document. Should be fun.
Saturday, June 30, 2012. Meet at 10:00 AM at Ensign Downs Park, Salt Lake City.
Koshka I am very sorry to hear about your son. As for christians – the sad part is that some of them actually think they are helping. Then you get the other type – the ones who want to pray as publicly as possible and showcase their piety to as many people as they can. When they offer to pray with someone else, is not about some muddleheaded, woo-fueled attempt to help the other person; it is solely about their own ego and standing in their local church.
Damned theist vultures.
Gregory Greenwood—that was vile. Loathsome. Shockingly repellent.
FUCK THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS.
HappiestSadist:
I picked up a new bottle of OPI the other day– the color is called “strange tides”, I think. Anyway, it fucking glows in the dark!!
Koshka:
Ugh. That woman fucking sucks.
I’m so sorry to hear about your kids. I hope everything works out for the best with your little one.
To all you big mean atheists with no morals thank you for your comments.
I came here looking for sympathy (a bit selfish) and have got that so thanks again.
We continually have to deal with people saying stupid things and it is very hard to respond how we would like because then we just get labelled as hysterical/emotional etc.
On the week end Lucy was described as “a picture of health”. I wanted to reply “You mean apart from the tubes stuck in her face” but unfortunately we have to be concerned about other people’s feelings – although occasionally we snap. The advantage is I now have a nickname for Lucy – Poh which stands for “Picture of Health”.
And you have every right to, and you deserve it.
The girl I love is so very empathetic to her child. She has a hard time even watching the kid (who is 2 now, and developing a very aggressive and ‘dominant’ streak I’m sure she inherited from her mother) cry over normal bumped knees and stuff.
I imagine it’s that much harder for you and your partner, is what I’m clumsily and drunkenly trying to say.
But Lucy sounds like she’s doing well despite the early difficulties. Small children can be amazingly resilient, though I’m no doctor.
Koshka: You have every right to rant, and if you weren’t emotional about the situation, there’d be something deeply wrong with you. If there was any justice in this world, snapping at people who say dumb shit like that would be not only fine, but encouraged.
Audley: I am jealous! I love glow in the dark stuff. I got one tropical-swimming-pool turquoise, and one that’s about my skin colour, which makes my hands look all robotic-synthetic and graceful. Right now, I have the turquoise on my hands and feet, though.
Thanks Josh – Often we end up getting pity instead of sympathy.
Laughing Coyote – Lucy is doing fine. A couple of times a week we detach her and revel in not being attached to a bottle. Her problem is quite common – it is simply an underdeveloped respiratory system. If Jordi had not died of SIDS then we would probably have never known about it. She has another sleep test in a month to see how she is going. Gets all number of electrodes attached to her and spends the night in hospital. If good results she become a ‘normal’ child. And I like the picture of you scaring the God- fearing christians with your feralness.
953? What have y’all been saying? Anyway, threadrupt. But still:
http://immasmartypants.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/romneys-america.html
Josh, Official SpokesGay @ 448;
That was pretty much my response as well. It is also why I put in the advice not to watch it in my post – once you watch that type of toxic garbage, there is no way to un-watch it.
Sili @ 306,
interesting, did Rebecca tell you that ? If she wants someone neutral or out of the loop to write about it, I’d be more than happy to. This whole banning/blacklisting stuff is to me very telling, it’s a reliable sign that someone ahould pick another movement.
Gregory Greenwood: Yeah, I watched the first minute or so, and was too disgusted. I like video games well enough, and that shit is just fucking offensive.
Conga rats to Bill Dauphin’s daughter!
– and fuck the arsehole xtians who just have to accost people to yammer on about praying for them. Why can’t they just go off and do it if they want to, without shoving it in people’s faces? I’m so sorry Koshka. All best wishes for your daughter’s health. And fuck, I’m so sorry about your son.
Koshka – I am so sorry. And yes, rage is definitely the right response to that kind of drive-by pity. fuck those assholes.
So what the hell is in the water lately? DJ Grothe showed up at Stephanie’s to tell her that it’s all her fault that there were fewer women at TAM this year, because she said once that there is a bit of a sexism problem at TAM. Jason Thibeault is one of the people ripping him apart, though.
Okay, got a little bit done tonight. Thanks, Rey. ♥
Koshka, I’m sorry. I hope she comes out happy and healthy. That’ just so terrible. =( Breaks my heart. I can’t even imagine how much that must suck.
—————
Hitman trailer: OMFG. Fuck them. Godfuckingdamnit. This is why I more often than not, do not claim to be a gamer. Don’t read the comments. Not even the first page. Oh. My. Fucking. God. Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh. Fuck them. Fuck that. Fuck fuck fuck.
Also, congrats, Bill!!
Gregory – there are pockets fighting back against that kind of thing, from the little I know about it. Hopefully it gets enough mass soon to make a difference.
Koshka,
Sympathies on the loss of your son. What a vile display of self-importance from the Christian interlocutors.
Still learning,
Robert
Oh hai I missed where Jadehawk and Sili already talked about DJ and I just saw it and I am so late.
I’ll go stand in the corner without a beer for awhile now and think about what I did.
YOU’RE QUITE WELCOME, CAINE.
Last weekend’s cooking, in case anyone cares.
Fish Pie
1 ready-made pie shell
1 box Jiffy Crust or similar product, + ~5 tbsp. water
~1 lb. rainbow trout flesh, cooked and deboned
1 pkg smoked mussels (~4 oz.?), drained and blotted of oil and chopped
4 hardboiled eggs, shelled and chopped
several sprigs of fresh parsley and thyme
a few spikes of rosemary
3 bay leaves
3/4 cup whole milk or cream
1/2 cup butter
1/2 cup white flour
~1/2 cup white wine
Glaze: 1/2 mixture of 1 beaten egg plus 1 tsp cold water
Melt butter in saucepan. Whisk in flour, then milk or cream, gradually. Add wine, then bay leaves. Adjust amounts and stir as needed to get rid of lumps (a little extra sauce is fine). Stir on low heat for about 2 minutes, then let cool and thicken. Remove bay leaves.
Add the herbs, seafood, and eggs into the pan and mix thoroughly. Fold mixture into pie shell. Let chill in fridge, covered, for at least half an hour.
Make a top crust out of the Jiffy Crust and water according to directions on the box. Set the top crust onto the filled pie, paint it with the egg glaze, and vent it with a knife. Bake at 430° F for 25 minutes. Let cool before serving.
Linguine with Soppressata, Grilled Portabellas, and Romano
1 lb. linguine
1/4 lb. soppressata
6 portabella mushroom caps
~1/2 cup white wine
~1/2 cup white flour
1 tsp dried tarragon
Black pepper to taste
Romano cheese to taste
Boil, drain, and reserve linguine.
Grill mushrooms on a stovetop grill, then reserve in a bowl.
Chop soppressata up into bite-sized pieces and fry in a saucepan until crispy. Blot meat on a paper towel, and blot up excess fat in pan with another paper towel.
Deglaze the pan with white wine, then add mushroom juice from bowl. Whisk in flour. Stir over low heat for a couple of minutes, then let cool and thicken.
Toss meat and mushrooms with pasta, then coat with sauce and toss again. Add black pepper and romano cheese as desired.
TLC:
Tell me about it. Fuck, over 6 years in this house, and not once have we been able to enjoy the back half of our property because of the neighbour’s idiot dogs. Yap, yap, yap, damn near 24 hours a day.
Happiestsadist:
Jesus Christ, why not? I go to the pain clinic in Bismarck when I simply can’t handle things anymore and the pain meds aren’t enough, to get spinal shots.
Louis:
Caine told me.
Cipher:
:D :D :D ♥ By the way, your prezzie should arrive tomorrow.
Nerd:
:D ♥
Koshka, I am so sorry. People can be such assholes.
Happiestsadist @ 458;
Offensive is right, and it doesn’t even make internal sense. Why would an all female hit team sent to assassinate the lead character disguise themselves as nuns… only to actually be wearing some kind of S&M gear underneath their disguises? Why not combat fatigues? Or body armour?
It is simply an excuse to further sexualise the female characters, and pair that excessive sexualisation with the violence that is to follow, even when it makes no sense in regard to the integrity of the fictional universe – it is some kind of sick misogynist fantasy in animated form.
I also don’t think that the S&M gear is simply there because it is skimpy – it seems like some kind of crass and offensive (in yet another way) comment upon alternate sexuality.
—————————————————————-
Just_A_Lurker @ 462;
This monstrosity certainly made me feel ashamed to be a gamer, and the comments might be even worse than the trailer itself. The sheer level of oblivious misogyny is hard to credit.
—————————————————————-
carlie @ 463;
I hope so. It always seems to be one step forward and two steps back with gaming – you get glimmers of hope like Bioware standing by its more inclusive attitude toward homosexuals in its Mass Effect series* in the face of reactionary bigotry one day, only for something like this to slither out of the shadows a few weeks later.
* Though even in this case the game still had an intensely annoying and vulgarly peurile attitude toward the design of its female characters – even the alien species had to conform to stereotypically sexualised bodyplans (with the exception of the Krogan – it is apparently hard to create a sexualised version of a female battle-toad) .
THE MOST SQUEE
“I just bought some Bowen Island Breweries “Blond Hemp Ale”.”
“I just bought some Bowen Island Breweries “Blond Hemp Ale”.”
175° is wrong enough! It sounds pompous to me; what can I say.
It’s true. Teenaged beatniks were burning incense in their rooms for just that reason when Eisenhower was President.
Dog Barks Nonstop For 6 Years
Jeez, you guys keep filling this up. NEW THREAD!
long enough
*slips carlie some grog*