I’ve been in Anderson Cooper’s position a few times: having a conversation with someone defending the indefensible. I feel some sympathy for this poor woman: she’s probably of average intelligence, and has just discovered that she has to defend hatred and ignorance on television…and she discovers that falling back on the authority of her pastor isn’t enough.
(via Mano)
No, she’s a dumb, hateful woman. The very personification of Hannah Arendt’s banality of evil.
Talk to me about having some sympathy for the poor faggot/dyke/transman who discovers they have to defend themselves against a woman like this who gets up on national television to defend ringing them into concentration camps.
Spit.
And people like Ryan wish to be nice, because that’s much more helpful and convincing. This woman is a prime example of someone who is more than likely quite nice when it comes to everyday dealings, however, scratch the surface…terrible, evil beliefs. Nice does not equal good and it’s time to push that message with ferocity. Jadehawk provided an excellent link on TZT: http://www.socialjusticeleague.net/2012/04/the-revolution-will-not-be-polite-the-issue-of-nice-versus-good/
I find it ironic that religious people want to claim homosexuality is a choice, when in fact believing in mythical beings is a choice. Because, either you are born gay or not. Yet no one is born religious. So, apparently, people choose to believe in mythical beings.
Also, on the subject of having a bit of sympathy for her…mmmm, gotta go with no. If I thought there was a chance that this was a wake-up call for her, then yes, I would. However, this is a person who goes along with some incredibly vicious thoughts and beliefs. Beyond vicious.
I know attempts must be made to get through to such people, but as the years, hell, the decades go on and I see things not only getting worse, but much worse, my outlook goes bleak with anger. I’m tired of not only being a minority, I’m tired of being part of small minority trying to effect change for the better. Women like this make me see the Inquisition, little more.
I have no sympathy for her at all. How the fuck can you twist the words of a man who said that gays, lesbians and queers should be left behind electric fence and fed with food air dropped to them, until they die. And all she could fall back on is IT IS WRONG.
All I hope is this, that she smart enough to realize that some people are laughing at her incoherence. And that she is shamed enough to finally think about the issue. As it stands, she is just an other Barb.
(For the newbies, she was a closed minded and ridiculous godbotherer who thought that she was bravely fighting against the heathens here. She opened with the statement; and when down hill. According to her, LGBT people came about because they were molested when they were young.)
*spits venom*
Hate apart (not that it’s unimportant) his reasoning is just brick fucking stupid. If you fenced in all the STRAIGHT men and women with only members of their own sex, they wouldn’t be able to reproduce either, duhhh.
Don’t be so vicious, Janine and Caine. She was just and stating .
Nicegood link @3. Thanks Jadehawk and Caine, fantôme élastique MQ.The explanation of privilege as systematic advantage was well said,
I think that Pharyngula stands for little other than the fact that blithering idiocy can be challenged quite forcefully without necessarily alienating people who hadn’t previously rejected said blithering idiocy. In fact, challenging such quite forcefully is one way to get the uncommitted to recognize idiocy qua idiocy.
If as Glenn Greenwald pointed out recently that Connie Chung can tell Martina Navratilova to go back to the Czech Republic because she disagrees with BushII policies, it seems like it ought to be within norms for an anchor to tell random woman defending concentration camps to, y’know, give the idiocy both barrels.
Cooper was wrong to take it as easy on her as he did.
Right, because she wants nothing vicious to happen to us, do not take seriously that she agrees with what that asshole wants. She just wants us to know that her god thinks we are worthy of death.
The main reason I like it here. It stands in stark contrast to certain other blogs—I’m looking at your douchey dood-bro ass, JT Eberhard, and you too, Stephanie Svan—where the marginal get smacked down if they don’t stick their tongues so far up Ally Ass™ they come out brown.
kristinc:
Actually, if you fenced in straight men separate from straight women, the population of queers would fall quicker than it would be fencing in the queer men separate from the queer women.
Also, keeping all the queer men together with each other and all the queer women together with each other doesn’t seem to be a great way to prevent queer sex.
Seriously.
If you want this guy’s plan to somehow stack up logically, you are doomed to have a pretty serious sad.
Watching Cooper (I can has ghey secks with him?) challenge her by bringing up various other Old Testament prohibitions and punishments, I can’t believe that some people claim New Atheism hasn’t made a big difference in society.
This was a lovely smackdown.
Josh:
So it says on my Cupcake button. ;D
Crip Dyke:
Actually, if that was done, people would have sex anyway and it wouldn’t be the Jesus approved sort, either.
Fuck sympathy, and fuck average intelligence too. If she’s of average intelligence she’s got even less excuse to keep listening to that maniac in the pulpit then she does. For me, the second someone starts defending this shit is the second that I lose all sympathy for them. If I saw this woman dying of thirst in the desert, I would give her a glass of strychnine.
Sorry, Dalillama, I cannot go that far. She gets water, as long as I have enough for myself.
Dalillama:
I wouldn’t, I’d give her water (assuming I had it.) I’m angry, not evil.
Now a dumbass whiner is “reporting” me to JT for being way uncivil here:
Hitch, hitch, sniffle.
Oh FFS, the little tosspot can’t cope with you there, but has to sniff about to see what you’re saying here?
Hey, little tosspot, either have the courage to post here, or get the fuck out and shut up.
Josh, you must know by now that the best way to deal with people who range in thought that LGBT people should be denied equal rights to they should be imprisoned and killed is to smile and say how reasonable they are. That will make them change their minds.
After all, MLK did not say a word about Chicago being the most racist city in the US after he was hit with a brick. Really!
I know Janine, right? That’s why you’re the Bestest Fake Wife. Cuz you remind me how stoopid I am to expect baseline ethics from Friends©. Thanks, fake wife!
Good morning.
Re : JT
Reading new comments in his “…don’t derail” post. Er, so basically now anything that is an unfortunate combination of criticizing JT and not being 100% on the topic is a possible offense?
Good to know, I only started commenting there on that crappy “women’s duty to educate socially awkward men” post and I’ll probably end reading or commenting with this one.
Beatrice: Don’t be stupid. JT suffers us to speak occasionally. What do you want, full opinion privileges?
Ungrateful wench. You don’t recognize a when he’s right in front of you.
*snort*
My mistake. I don’t know how I missed that huge white horse he rode in on.
You missed it because it was too busy sucking JT’s dick and telling him how it was the biggest, whitest, most egalitarian dick it had ever had.
Nah, if he was just slightly harsher, she’d have started squealing about how mean he was being to her, how the ebil liberal media was out to twist her words and take her out of context (despite merely repeating her and her pastor verbatim).
I’m actually kind of impressed that he could speak to someone so vile in such a restrained fashion. You have to be nice enough that they feel compelled to answer your questions, which just shows what worthless piles of crap they are.
Her “problem” was that she started to realize that the words coming out of her mouth made her sound like a pile of crap (which, of course, is and accurate perception), and then started resenting Anderson for it.
If I understand correctly, she asserts that although her pastor said these horrible things from the pulpit, he wouldn’t really want to do them. So, she’s saying he’s a liar? Yet, she believes him? And she’s more concerned that people are going to take this the wrong way? Jeez…I wonder if everyone in the church stupidly nodded agreement when he said it.
She may represent “average intelligence”, but if so, that leaves one with the notion that humanity isn’t very intelligent after all.
This is your first acquaintance with the world as it is?
@25 (and on…)
Pfft, on that thread I particularly enjoyed being told that my body language doesn’t mean what *every other rational person on the planet* would read it to mean. I’d probably get my ass handed to me if I *dared* to post this in that particular thread, but: Thanks. Thanks, Josh, DaisyCutter, & carlie for pointing out the glaringly obvious to the herp-a-derps, even though it brought down an undeserved spank.
Actually, I owe all of the regular posters here a big thanks. I’ve been challenged a lot since I started reading Pharyngula and FtB about 6-7 months ago. It’s been *massively* educational, and I think I’m better off for it. My views have changed on several topics, and though I don’t identify as an atheist yet, I’m definitely starting to swing that way, and it’s because of people like you.
So, thanks PZ, Brownian, Josh, Daisy, Caine, Audley, Jadehawk, ‘Tis, SC, SallyStrange, Ogvorbis, Louis, Janine, CripDyke, and everyone else (whose names I can’t remember off the top of my head). You’ve made a difference, even if it’s just with me. :)
/relurking
not just JT; all JAQers and “allies” have “protection from criticism if it’s even slightly off-topic or use insufficiently small words and logical steps to not be confused for off-topic”
meaning, you’re not allowed to be misunderstood, either.
Thank you, Miss Ela. That’s awfully nice to hear, and very kind of you to say. Welcome.
thanks for speaking up.
after being yelled at from various corners for being entirely too mean and stuff, a bit of confirmation is soothing :-)
It’s a balm, isn’t it?
MissEla, I am humbled that I am one of those named. Please give yourself most of the credit, you are listening to the arguments and thinking about it.
Also, thank you.
OMFG. I totally missed the existence of that one. the “women, you need to be clearer” is making my skin crawl. too much like the stuff from “mythcommunication”
I find all these bloggers who have to resort to banning and self important “thems the rules” posts just because they may get their preconceptions challenged or a bit of privilege pointed out to them, entirely pathetic.
Welcome MissEla!
Everything Rorschach said (hope you’re still eating fantastic food over there). And with that I’m fucking right off to bed. Got a belly full of Douchey Revelations and that’s enough for one day. More than fucking enough.
xxoo,
SG
That’s her problem. If she had any compassion she would have discovered the truth about her religion years ago.
somewhere on the internet there’s a great essay about how hypocritical it is to on the one hand complain about women not being assertive enough and being too subtle and crap, and on the other having an entire culture that punishes women for being unsubtle and assertive. and now I can’t find it :-(
Heh. Just looked over at JT’s.
He seems to imagine he’s putting his foot down, when he’s actually enabling easier trolling by restricting responses to it.
<shrug>
Josh, sleep well and don’t let stuff raise your BP too much. I’m off to dinner now, I think maybe Udun noodles and beef in black pepper sauce. Plane to Beijing tomorrow, then to Singapore on Tuesday until the end of the week. I might get a blog post written yet this month.
I can’t stand to watch more than a few seconds of this, but please, please tell me that average intelligence is higher than that.
Looks like I’m completely happy to have spent the night on my balcony.
Why do those people assume that commenting privileges on their blogs are that highly valued by us?
MissEla, thank you so much. Thank you. Welcome to TET.
Audley Darkheart,
Sorry this is from a few days ago, I’ve been marathon-watching Community, and wow was it awesome.
On vehicle safety for children, one point that isn’t brought up by the car manufacturers is how the child restraint will fit in the seat. There are a number of factors (buckle stalk, spacing, fold-up armrest) that can make installation difficult. If you don’t have a seat yet to place in the back, measure 30 inches straight out from the back of the back seat to approximate how much room the child restraint will need. It might be necessary to move the front seats forward to accommodate, and, depending on your height/leg length, it can make driving (specifically moving feet from one pedal to another) uncomfortable.
—
Something completely different: Jazz came up here a while back, and I’d like to recommend a radio show that airs Sundays 2:00pm to 6:00pm Pacific Time (I believe we’re currently -0700 GMT) on KMHD (89.1 FM in the PDX area). Good friend of mine is the DJ, I’ve met no one that knows more about jazz musicians.
This. QFT.
And from the previous incarnation of TET:
Josh, I know what you mean! That’s why I wore a “Warning. Alien on board” t-shirt when I was pregnant; I thought it was deeply, deeply weird myself.
Hi ‘Tis! ::waves::
It was Janine really, but I hijacked a place on the plane for coincidentally simultaneously birthdaying SonSpawn so thank you cicely! :-D
@SC #19 (numbering on page 3 of previous incarnation of TET) I love/hate Joan Manuel Serrat (I’ve mostly got versions he did in Spanish eventually); a lot of the songs are unbearably moving, but some of them raise my hackles with their colossal androcentricity. His setting of Lorca’s Pueblo Blanco, though, is – well it’s so fucking beautiful and heartrending and blows me away just thinking about it.
Jesus Beatrice but that was a low-quality post. Fucking shitty writing. As a guy learning to cope with his own aspergers syndrome, I found the entire thing squirmingly uncomfortable to read, ya know? And the whole general tone, to me anyways, was like “Yeah yeah, respect your wishes and personal space and all that… but tell me how to have sex with you now.” Though I may be misreading.
I would like to echo MisEla’s sentiments.
I only very rarely post, but I read you guys almost every day.
You’re helping me articulate things and have given me a bit of confidence to push back harder in real life.
Never underestimate how much you’re helping people, just by saying things like they’re normal.
You’ve helped me see how a lot of self-declared allies aren’t allies. How wishy-washy “progressives” aren’t pogressive. How “feminists” who want to get even aren’t feminists.
Most valuable has been that you’ve shown you can be sensitive to all the issues that matter to me, without making it a zero sum game between them. You CAN care about all victims of abuse, regardless of the type of abuse or the nature of the victims. And you don’t declare that a specific configuration of race, gender and class somehow can’t be victimized.
And yet more, you don’t look to get even. Even despite all the shit you’ve been through, you don’t look for revenge and will always tell people off for injecting their revenge fantasies (like in this very thread).
I feel like that, and appreciate that there’s people who wouldn’t tell me that I should be full of hate. I’ve already had horrible things happen and living a life filled with hate sounds like continued suffering. I’ve already got enough to deal with, without making it worse.
Errr um uhh ahhhh in my own defense that was more of a violent ‘defense’ fantasy than a revenge one, but I take yer point just the same.
Shouldnt it be Episode CCCXL
*scurries back in to hiding*
pf, I consider myself one of the hangers-on here :) and I echo your sentiment wrt the smart and articulate regulars. This is actually the most compassionate (and passionate) shark-tank in the world.
Jadehawk:
you mean “She never fought back because you told her not to” ?
Excerpts at:
http://kateharding.net/2009/08/04/she-didn%E2%80%99t-fight-back-because-you-told-her-not-to/
Big long essay:
http://www.fugitivus.net/2009/06/26/another-post-about-rape-3/
TLC, pretty sure pf meant the strychnine comment upthread when they were talking about revenge fantasies
thanks pteryxx! that’s what I was looking for
Jadehawk: Oh, I must have missed that one.
But speaking of my earlier problem, I gave John Morales’s suggestion to the girl and she thought it was smart.
I *heart* the shit out of this
Yeah, I meant the strychnine.
Also go me for missing the typo in MissEla’s name, despite previewing and editing away other typos.
Thank you, MissEla. I’ve got an awfully huge amount of learning to do myself, but it is nice to know that something I wrote was helpful to another.
Oh dear, I’ve just read JT’s standards thread. Could not bear to go back to the original. Doubling down; denial; all that. Urgh. So, umm, congratulations to Ms Daisy?
TLC @50,
I read that post today and cringed all the way, and I also read it as some kind of weird “how to get laid at atheist conferences without offending” manual. People like JT or Fincke should be fucking grateful that the Pharyngulites come and visit their sites in the first place, a lot of FtB blogs would be complete non-starters were it not for the commenters that Pharyngula brought with it.
Hi, all. Since I’m not entirely awake yet, I apologize for what will be a rambly comment.
First, welcome back, ‘Tis, hope you had a good trip. Audley, that’s really cool, about Darkfetus.
Regarding JT… christ almighty. I’ve already vented here about that first thread, about how teh poor awkward menz need their hands held and we wimminz should be grateful that JT was volunteering to do it. Not that I didn’t leave any snark there at all, but I did actually try to argue in good faith, at least to begin with. (Of course, as soon as JT started whining at me that he wasn’t my enemy and that if I were as rational as he was I’d understand that, and then comparing me to an MRA, I stopped bothering.)
And I didn’t bother to do so at all in Christina’s thread, because, seriously, what the fuck was that shit? Not just the cissplaining, either — much of it by one of the guys (Wes) from the same website that spawned one of the “OMG, poly people are so oppressed!” idiots (ShaunPhilly) on the previous thread — but the self-righteous twit (ZeL) who thinks that everybody should be a pacifist willing to die rather than defend themselves because otherwise “we’re no better than they are”? And Katie “Mallorie’s BFF” Hartman concern-trolling that anger from transgender people might “cause” cisgender people to harm them?
And Saint Gasoline. Saint Fucking Gasoline. Who I’d say is truly representative of JT’s commentariat: Full of philosophy and unchecked privilege.
Also, was anyone else bothered by how Christina defined her gender identity? I don’t really have the knowledge to parse it entirely, but what she appears to experience is a kind of gender-related body dysmorphia that she sees as a symptom of her psychiatric illness and that goes away when she takes antidepressants. To me, that’s uncomfortably akin to calling transgenderism a mental illness.
That third thread… I just said my piece and left. Happiestsadist told me later I’d been banned. Good. No reason to go back there at all, even SIWOTI syndrome.
Stephanie Zvan is another piece of work. The epitome of the self-righteous privileged liberal who values “civility” over everything else. In the last JT thread I left her a reply in which I alluded to her and her commenters calling Josh “churlish” for not being a good little gay and nodding along in acquiescence while they praised Obama to the skies for his tepid announcement, and “tepid” is a charitable term. It escaped me at first, but Josh later pointed out to me that “churlish” has a connotation of ingratitude. IOW, they called him “uppity.”
I ranted about all this in a locked post on my Dreamwidth. One of my queer friends said of Stephanie and Jason and Crommunist and JT’s little flirting game the other week, “So-called allies pretending to be gay? WTF? That’s like me claiming to be anti-racist while wearing blackface!” Yep. (OK, I understand that JT is bi, but the rest of them are straight.)
Josh, I’m glad you had a good time yesterday evening. You deserved it, after having tried so hard to argue in good faith with that crowd. Like I said, sometimes you have to cut your losses. There are many, many other people out there to educate, and some of them will be much more educable.
Hi, MissEla! Welcome. Thank you, and thank you, pf, as well. Not that I was all that stressed out about being banned from that shithole — I’m having a very pleasant, laid-back, productive weekend — but it is indeed rewarding to read your words. I’m glad that even a few people got some benefit out of that debacle.
That said: pf, I do have revenge fantasies. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. I don’t act on them, of course. Nor do I post them here or in many other venues, because they’d be inappropriate. However, by the same token, I think it’s wrong to police people who have suffered at the hands of others for having violent thoughts, under the excuse that they’re just being “hateful” or that they should be “forgiving.” Fuck that shit. I got that head trip for years with a therapist who was one of those Nice Polite Unitarians, and it didn’t make my fantasies any less violent. Also, blaming people for having “impure” thoughts is the kind of thing the Catholic church does.
Rorschach, #63: Agreed on both counts, both on how the first JT post sounded, and what the main draws of FTB are. Not just Pharyngula, but also Blag Hag, B&W, Greta Christina, and, to some extent, Dispatches, all of which were flourishing well before this site was started. To be sure, there are other lesser-known blogs here that deserve more attention, like Chris Rodda’s and Justin Griffith’s. Richard Carrier is fairly impressive as well. I’ll even give Crommunist some points for his “foot-shuffling” post and for his policy wonkery, despite his weaknesses on gender issues.
That said, there are any number of blogs here that are just… here. They don’t offer much that I couldn’t find elsewhere on the internet, and done better at that. What they do offer is dwarfed by the faux-ally bullshit.
what is this referring to?
oh my god. I didn’t read the JT post until just now, and I can’t leave a comment there. I should probably blog it, it is so fucking fucked up.
Skeptifem, I can’t speak for pf and probably shouldn’t try, but I took that to refer to the canard that Valerie Solanas is representative of all feminists.
JT’s blog was one of the ones I used to read every day. Then *that* post came along and I was like “really?” Women need to be “clearer”? Never heard that one before.
Haven’t been back since. (I might, in future, but for now, no.)
And I want to chime in with MissEla and pf. You all are like a slap in the face. A good slap, the kind that’s needed, like in the movies when someone is freaking out or being stupid or oblivious, and someone else slaps their face and it calms them down/wakes them up/makes them think, and the audience is like “Yes! Thank you!”
The woman in the video is disgusting and stupid. She’s so obtuse that she can’t follow Cooper’s logical questions and reasoning. And I wonder if she even knows that Cooper is gay. How can she stand there and tell Cooper to his face (on national TV no less) that he doesn’t deserve to live…?
I would have liked to have seen Cooper seriously smack her down, but I suppose that he can’t do that as a reporter for CNN. Here’s a Cooper smackdown from his own talk show, where I guess he has the freedom to do and say what he pleases… http://youtu.be/psigRG_JJwA
First: Thanks MissEla & pf.
I especially liked this from pf:
and, from opposablethumbs:
However, may I point out that it may not be the sharks that are posting.
I’ve said something previously that wasn’t too different from opposablethumbs’ statement.
One of the main reasons that I like it here is because it is a passionate shark tank. Despite the reaction that most religious types and libertarians and a few other categories of commenters get, this crowd welcomes a truly original argument. In fact, the horde’s pavlovian response to sharpen its teeth comes not in response to religious references or flat-earth economics per se.
No. It’s tedium. It’s not the same person showing up or the same personality type showing up. It’s when the same statements are made as if they had argumentative value when the evidence and arguments those statements reflect have been refuted and/or made irrelevant many times over.
It’s the tedious that really attract the feeding frenzies around here.
Actually isn’t it meant to be CCCXXX? I’m fairly sure that comes after CCCXXIX.
@me: Not that I’m advocating real-life physical slapping. I mean fictional slapping.
I’d also like to take a moment to appreciate the people that took the time to respond to so much yuckiness on JT and Christina’s posts.
and for Daisy:
I was bothered by her attempts to define her gender ID, sure. What bothered me most was the “I’m not cis, but I’m not trans” piece. It was oh-so-“I’m not feminist, but…”
The entire point of cis is to say, “not trans”. There are quite a few people who *are* trans but feel afraid to say it because of various different dynamics in both cis and trans communities. I understand that can be a difficult place, recognizing one’s gendered differences but not (yet) knowing how to respond to, categorize, and communicate about them. Nonetheless, the answer isn’t to say, “You can’t lump me with cisfolk because, well, because! So there!” If you’re really trans and going through a process, it might be nice if you didn’t indelibly scrawl on the internet that being trans is too yucky to adopt as an ID even when one isn’t cis. First there’s the stigma stuff “I’m not stigmatized/oppressed enough to be trans” isn’t sensitivity: it’s defeatist acceptance that the defining characteristic of transness is and should be how yucky we are to the rest of the world and how much that world spits on us.
I do take small exception with your statement about her writing being, “uncomfortably akin to calling transgenderism a mental illness.”
Look, people who actually experience what is now called GID and which is imperfectly-but-identifiably described by that diagnosis do, indeed, have an illness. It’s not entirely unreasonable to call it a mental one, though it’s more properly located in the relationship between mind and body than in either place on its own.
What’s messed up is twofold:
One that transgenderism is implicated in the diagnosis rather than transsexuality. One can be transgender as a drag performer – and drag is clearly not implicated in the DSM. That’s not what is being discussed, thank you very much. So when we’re discussing the diagnosis/mental illness we need to be specific that we’re discussing transsexuality, not transgenderism.
and
Two, that being transgender should carry stigma.
It’s not about whether it’s a mental illness to be differently gendered or to have a unique gender expression. It’s about whether it’s okay that we stigmatize such people. The idea that GID should be removed from the DSM because “Stigma!” misses the point. If you do that, then you’re just admitting that it’s perfectly fine for stigma to attach to people diagnosed with conditions listed in the DSM, but you don’t want that stigma to attach to you or yours.
Fuck that noise. The answer to stigmatization isn’t to exempt one condition from the list of stigmatized ways of being. The answer is to fight stigma. The answer is to destigmatize mental illness.
And what Christina did (I couldn’t make it through everything, but I read a very [in]decent chunk of it) seriously reinforced the idea that stigma is natural.
The long and short of it? Yes, Daisy, her actions bothered me very much, but I wouldn’t have put it in precisely the same terms you used.
@ariaflame:
Yeah, I noticed that, too. Makes me wonder if we’re really at 330 or if typos along the way have caused us to skip a few incarnations… I think I’ll go back and read every single TET post just to make sure. [actually…there’s a sociology dissertation waiting to happen]
Thank you, MisEla. I second Janine’s comment at 37.
Thank you also, pf.
LDTR, your comment about the slapping made me laugh, because before I had read to the bottom of the thread I had already written the following:
I’ve started moving more and more to the side of “fuck you, you’re wrong” than “I see where you’re coming from, but” as a discussion starting point. I think it might be a result of the way that our society has become so much more polarized; “I see where you’re coming from, but” seems more and more to be taken as the person cutting off after the first part and saying “Ha! So you agree with me! I am therefore right!” and refusing to listen to anything that comes after the “but”.
So fuck that, maybe it’s high time to not coddle anybody in their beliefs or opinions or thoughts on something even just linguistically as an opener. Nope, if what you’re thinking is something that actually hurts people, then you get no soft tap on the shoulder, you get the full-on right hook (metaphorically speaking).
Absolutely. This is very much how many people in mental illness communities feel. I have heard the term “mentally interesting” thrown around more than once to describe a mentally ill persons self concept.
Also, if GID could no longer be a diagnosis it would become very difficult to prescribe the kind of medical interventions many trans people require for better quality of life. It seems like it would hinder study of gender identity as a neurological phenomenon.
Ms Daisy Cutter, I never meant to say you can’t be angry, or have agressive thoughts. And you actually DO have the class to not plaster threads with revenge porn. I’m sorry you felt attacked by what I said. I didn’t mean to target you at all. (INTENT IS MAGIC)
I really must deny that I think you have no right to feel hurt, angry or wary, and I don’t feel like there’s even the slightest obligation on your part to ever be nice to people who hurt you.
My only objection is against making statements supportive of vigilantism. You won’t hear a single word of condemnation from me if you refuse to forgive whatever it is you don’t feel like forgiving today.
Forgiveness is kind donation, not a birthright.
skeptifem, “feminists” who just want to get even, are people who just want to invert the patriarchy into a matriarchy. There’s not that many of them (thankfully), but they’re a serious problem if I’m trying to sell feminism as a Good Thing, because if people can point at only one of them, somehow that’s an effective silencing tactic.
So if there’s one woman who is a man-hater, feminism is bunk.
It drives me up the walls, sometimes.
morning y’all good
sharksfolks.Libby Anne just put this up the other day:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/05/what-feminism-means-to-me.html
Going by that, then feminism’s a lot like atheism is (or should be) and even more like skepticism and freethinking. (Although, “all you feminists are X” almost always is a silencing tactic rather than an actual opinion open to discussion.)
Argh – now, to balance that out, I should post something about the empowerment of expressing anger when (especially when) all of society condemns your kind for daring to do so. Expressing anger and potentially threatening behavior and enforcing one’s boundaries are the privilege of, well, the privileged. (There’s a reason why anger’s reserved – indeed required – for “real” men.)
I’ve been busy over the weekend and have had little chance to respond any further over on Christina’s DCS thread over at WWJTD: I see there is now not just one train wreck but several.
Having already done my bit at the outset to try provide some 101 type comments to fill in exactly why DCS is absolutely nothing like the violent oppression of trans people at every corner, I have no interest at all further wasting my time now that the thread has been massively and irretrievably derailed by trying to educate those oblivious douchebag “Just Asking Questions” types who learnt nothing (hello Wes et al.) or hand-wringing, privileged grues (hello ZeL et al.). These arseholes basically ignored anything that was patiently explained multiple times by the several trans people who contributed to the thread, or by the team of queer allies. Way to miss the point whooshing fucking miles over their heads.
I’m extremely unimpressed with JT waltzing in afterwards to call the shots, and I wish I cared enough about his blog to get angry about such an inept job of moderation. My anger and disappointment at being misunderstood often feels like a very limited resource and I’m not going to squander it there.
Thanks guys who’ve been kicking against the pricks, and copping a ban from JT for your trouble.
*blink* Wow, Jadehawk, you’re welcome. Glad to be of service – I spaced on that digging up that essay might mean you’d USE it.
http://jadehawks.wordpress.com/2012/05/27/lets-pretend-social-interactions-happen-without-social-context/
I keep looking for this post on her blog and can’t find it, I am very interested. I mostly find stuff about her book and a bunch of bullshit about how the main problem prostitutes face is stigma from feminists instead of, you know, violence.
pf
If people want to discuss what so and so said instead of what ought to be then they didn’t want a serious debate in the first place, and it isn’t your fault. One of the better things that has happened to me over the years is my acceptance that some people want to appear reasonable but have no intention of actually listening, and that isn’t my fault. I don’t feel bad for not convincing more men. I can’t make em ready. I wouldn’t pay much mind to people willing to dismiss a movement based on the words of one person- malcom x had a lot of nutty shit to say, but he was correct about a lot too.
Woo hoo! New posts to read!
Last thread:
Josh:
Ha! Trust me, I felt like I was being invaded for months.
I can totally understand if the non- and not-going-to-be pregnant among us don’t want to hear constant Darkfetus updates. Just say the word and I’ll totally take it down a notch. :)
SC:
I’d say that’s extremely fucking badass.
This thread:
Janine:
Oh fuck me. Barb.
There was a Barb… oh, shortly after FtB opened its doors who had the biggest crush on Glennnnnnn Beck. Do you know if we’re talking about the same person?
Or were there two odious Barbs? (Gross.)
Josh:
Well, there goes my appetite.
Sorry, Mr Darkheart! We were going to go out for brunch later, but now I feel like I’m going to vom.
MissEla:
*blushes!*
Thank you for letting me know. You made me smile this morning!
Welcome in!
Therrin:
First of all, FUCK YEAH COMMUNITY!
Thankfully, around here we can contact out local firefighters and they will help properly install car seats. How freaking cool is that?
Also, we know that it’s (relatively) easy to install a car seat in the Rav4 ‘cos my MiL had one for my niece.
opposablethumbs:
I keep forgetting to order that! I was putting it off until I started showing, but now that I’m starting to get large and in charge*, I should totally get one.
*Seriously, if my name was Marge, I would only refer to myself as Large Marge (always in the third person, of course).
pf:
Thank you! Welcome in. :)
Daisy:
Thanks!
I’ve refused to read the bullshit going on over at JT’s– I never much cared for him in the first place. I am glad that you guys are keeping me appraised of the situation, though.
I think I would have been more inclined to comment with the rest of you guys if he didn’t have those goddamned nested fucking comments. I have a hard enough time keeping up here, nesting just makes the longer threads mind boggling.
(I would just knee-jerk blame myself (dyslexia is such a pain in the ass), but it looks like I’m not the only one who has trouble with that shit.)
Fuck that shit. I’m a pacifist, but I’m not an idiot and I would never dream of telling someone that they can’t fucking defend themselves.
*sigh* Now I’m really glad I’ve stayed out of JT’s and Christina’s shit shows.
IndyM:
He is? I know that there have been rumors for years regarding his sexuality, but I didn’t think he ever came out.
ANYWAY,
I’m actually listening to this video.
1) Well, fuck me. If this woman is of average intelligence, then I’m a fucking genius. Where’s my Mensa card?
2) “Gay people are born to straight parents all the time” is exactly what I’ve been screaming since that fucking pastor opened his fucking hateful yap. Thank you, Anderson Cooper.
Seriously, PZ, you were far too kind to that hateful, ignorant sack of shit.
Things that have made me happy this morning:
The weather is beautiful and I am sitting in the courtyard having a cup of coffee.
Getting a text from a dear friend who is in Texas with the Air Force reserves. And finding out that he will be home to visit in a month and a half.
Knowing that I can fart around all day ‘cos I’ve got tomorrow off. Fuck yeah!
Crip Dyke:
Thank you for the thorough explanation.
I am aware of gender identity disorder, but I was under the impression that trans activists considered it a dubious diagnosis. I also didn’t realize that “transsexuality” was still a valid term; I thought it was now considered obsolete, like “M2F” or “F2M” instead of “trans woman” or “trans man.”
I’m all for destigmatizing mental illness, but, as I’ve said to you before, I am not on board with the social model of disability, nor with throwing the baby of psychiatry out with the bathwater as the anti-psych types want to do. Mental illnesses are not fine and dandy to have so long as there’s no stigma, and I speak as someone who has long suffered from depression and anxiety, occasionally the debilitating kind. They cause suffering to the person who is diagnosed. Oftentimes, they cause suffering to the people around them.
(Some disability activists wouldn’t like hearing my last sentence above, because it doesn’t center the person with the disability. Having suffered from the untreated mental illnesses of relatives, and having had friends who’ve so suffered even worse than I have, I say that such activists can go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.)
The DSM in and of itself is a really… problematic book, for want of a better word, but, so long as we’re stuck with it, I think that it should list conditions that cause suffering for the diagnosed independent of social stigma, and it should not list conditions that do not.
pf. thank you for the clarification. Although I am not entirely sure that vigilantism is always wrong, either. When law and order breaks down, sometimes it’s the only way to prevent a predator from continuing to prey on people.
Don’t worry. Sometimes I need to talk about the Redhead and her situation, and I’m not looking for sympathy, just a place to vent. Like:
She expects me to cook a steak and bring it to her on Memorial Day (it will likely happen Tuesday, a normal visiting day). I have important things to do Monday, like actually trying to work a nap in, between bouts of cleaning the house.
Jesus. I just tried one more time over at JT’s, but I don’t know if it will get through. I think the issue is that he honestly doesn’t understand that “just asking questions” can be a derailing topic at all, no matter how many times it’s been explained. I don’t know if he really doesn’t understand it, or is actively denying that it goes on. I asked yesterday for him to clarify that but he ignored it, so I just asked it again in a longer way.
That Valerie Solanas character definitely sounds like the sort of woman they’d point to as proof that feminism is 100% man-hating.
@kristinc, ~ringy dingy~
Actually I think she misunderstood her pastor (you know, the guy she claims is so easy to understand and that Cooper distorts). He was trying to say that if you somehow got all the gay people of both sexes on an island together that they wouldn’t have straight sex and wouldn’t reproduce–in other words, homosexuality is evolutionarily maladaptive.
Of course what would really happen is that the gay people would make plenty of babies and that while the next generation would be small, it would be mostly straight and would grow like any other population.
Holy crap. My comment there is now awaiting moderation. I don’t know if moderation got turned on altogether, or if I’ve somehow made the short list too.
Carlie, did you try linking him to “JAQing off” on RationalWiki?
There’s also a Pandagon post specifically referencing that strategy as a means of defending privilege.
carlie: My comment went through unmoderated.
He just took his own advice of ignoring questions one doesn’t like. That of course makes for a very constructive conversation. If that’s what he wants for his blog…
Carlie, I can see your post, if it’s the one with links to jaqing off and derailing for dummies.
I am having trouble detecting the difference between this and a transperson who requires hormone therapy and surgery to diminish their distress. Those treatments work very well to help people.
There are varying degrees of needing help with depression and anxiety too.
Audley re Darkfetus: I’m happy for you, but I admit, it’d be kiiiind of nice to have a content warning before potentially squicky descriptions. (Please don’t stop WITH the squicky descriptions. Pregnancy’s ridiculously marginalized and misrepresented IMHO.)
pf
the interesting thing about the SCUM manifesto is that solanas never tried to publish or distribute it. Some dude did later. She had severe mental illness and shot someone, and her writings were taken as some kind of rallying cry by anti-feminists.
It is weird how the unibomber is never mistaken for a spokesperson of the voluntary simplicity movement, eh?
carlie: Your comment with the JAQing off links is up. I would guess the links caused the mod delay.
#84, Ms Daisy Cutter
Hm, I hadn’t actually thought of an absence of law and order when I said that about vigilantism.
I live somewhere extremely nice, where the police shows up within five minutes, every time I call them. The force isn’t being scaled back because of budget cuts.
If the police rarely or never came, and there weren’t anywhere near enough of them to begin with, I probably would redefine my stance on vigilantism.
It’s just about the worst option for ensuring an egalitarian society, but when it’s the only alternative to being assaulted, robbed and killed…
skeptifem #82
There are two Christinas at FtB. There’s Greta Christina and there’s one of JT’s girlfriends, whose first name is Christina and occasionally writes opening posts on JT’s blog. I’m assuming that reference to Christina in this respect is about the second one (I haven’t looked).
…And JT’s response was shiiiiiit. Frick, I know *I* err way to the side of assuming good faith, and even I can see that was shit.
Thanks for understanding, Nerd. I have been using Teh Thread to squee! out good news before I can announce it on facebook (I really can’t have my mom and MiL calling me demanding to know why Aunie S found out the good news before they did). I’m the type of person that cant keep big things to myself (either good or bad) and TET definitely gets the brunt of it.
It sounds like you need a little bit of grog, yourself. *pours through the tubes* (I know it’s early, but dammit, it’s a holiday weekend!)
Just so you know, I’m rooting for you and the Redhead. :)
I like getting Redhead updates and I like to know what’s going on with everyone here, the good stuff and the bad stuff.
GODDAMN IT! Why are there bees hovering over my coffee cup??
So, are androgynous people cis or trans?
I don’t know him, maybe he really is dumb, but it strikes me that in this instance he’s just pretending. “Just asking questions” has been at least mentioned if not explained in detail in three different threads, multiple times.
Pteryxx:
That is absolutely no problem! :)
We’re not talking about Greta Christina here, instead Christina Stephen’s post was on JT Everhard’s blog several days back.
https://proxy.freethought.online/wwjtd/2012/05/24/i-have-die-cis-scum-questions/
Après train wreck:
https://proxy.freethought.online/wwjtd/2012/05/26/want-to-keep-commenting-here-dont-derail-threads/
Whoa, I wish I’d seen that typo before submitting the last comment. m-/
Ariaflame, an androgyne gender identity is trans, not cis. (It is possible to assert a cis gender identity and still appear androgynous just by the way you express your gender. Lotsa possible variations)
JT may truly not understand the concept, but he’s personifying it.
@105 thank you for the link and clearing up which christina was being discussed.
Daisy – thanks for that Pandagon link! I had vaguely remembered reading it at some point, but not where it came from or how to find it again. Have it bookmarked now.
I’m not unhappy with JT’s response – I’ll try to rustle him up the examples after I do some house chores.
So trans is feeling that you are not X. (where X is the gender traditionally ascribed to people with your biology?)
That is true of atheism and the No Religion movement as well.
It’s also true for Paganism, or at least the modern revival.
These are true mass movements powered by the members from the bottom up. Who self select themselves. Those are always the strongest movements.
Leadership is also self selected and self followed and diffuse.
#82 and #96, skeptifem
I’m not actually convinced the SCUM manifesto is serious. I’ve seen a lot of gender rights writing which uses ludicrous hyperbole to get people to go “BUT THAT IS WRONG” and then hopefully re-examine their own preconceptions.
Not that this matters. The silencing people really just quote a few words or even just a name or a title and then declare what it’s all about. They don’t really need to have read anything.
I don’t see myself as failing, as long as I keep making noise whenever someone starts to leak bigotry. It means that there is an obstacle to unrestrained bigotry. I don’t know the exact size of my effectiveness, I just know it’s more than zero.
Oh my orgiastic non-existent gods; I just put myself through the “Women, you need to be clearer about not wanting to be skeezed over, regardless of any negative consequences!” post, the “But why are you so ANGRY, more-likely-to-be-murdered-than-married trans people?!” post, and the ‘Privilege isn’t SO an explanation for obliviousness, knee-jerking and fuckwittery!” post. I need to speak to my doc about putting me back on bp meds. I can forgive an uneducated person, but not a wilfully ignorant one, especially someone with a patronising-as-all-hells “But I’m an ally of group, so I’m right really, regardless of what members of group are actually saying, and, like, if group disagrees with me, well, I’m STILL right because. Nyeh nyeh. Bannination!!”
.
.
*deletes JT from daily feed grabber*
.
.
Would that deletion count as ‘being unhelpful’, or ‘uppity’, d’you think? Eye roll.
Ariaflame, gender identity is the term for what for your brain thinks you are, and because there are so many different ways of being gender variant (and oppressed by transphobia, “Die Trans Scum”, since you don’t obviously fit either of the two neat gender binary pigeonholes) they’re all lumped as trans, so that cis can be defined as non-trans (and vice versa). Not all trans people suffer equally from gender dysphoria, the result of having a gender identity disorder where your mental map is at odds with your body; as said upthread the current DSM stigmatised a gender identity disorder the same way homosexuality was treated as a mental disorder by the DSM till 1974. There is hope the next DSM-V will remove the identity disorder as a mental illness but retain dysphoria – i.e. the effects that result from having mind/body mismatch – as a diagnosis to allow medical treatment, which for many is not just desirable but essential to live a better life.
raven #111
That’s my biggest complaint about the Harvard Humanists and their attempts to hijack the atheist movement. They see a bottom up movement and want to self-select themselves as the leaders. Then they’ll convert the movement into a top down movement with their own rituals, temples, priesthood, etc. In the end, we’ll all be bowing towards Cambridge, Massachusetts and thanking Pope Greg Epstein I for bringing us the atheist dogma.
I should give up trying to write long posts via iPhone (fucking auto-incorrect struck a couple of times).
Night all.
pf, I adore you and am rapidly concluding that you’re worth more than ten of JT. Thank you for making your presence felt.
Hi there
Baby seats
I love the “Isofix system” Dunno if that’s avaible in the USA, but anybody with small kids looking for a car or planning to have kids while having the car should look them up.
They’re not only pretty safe, they’re also pretty foolproof because there’s always some sort of switch that will turn from red to green if you connected everything correctly, unlike with the “put the seatbelt over A, under B, tie to C, move back to A” systems.
JT
Did I mention spoilt kid?
He really looks like one more and more.
And actually I find them the most exhausting. The vile misogynists seem easier to deal with, you can categorize them as enemies. People like JT, or even Dawkins, not so much. You know they’re “good deep down”, you know they care and it drives me fucking mad to see them stop like 100m before the finish line of the marathon and argue that they’re done already.
Well, I’m not surprised to report that as the huge pick-up truck was plowing into my minivan with enough force to move me over two lanes and into the traffic semaphore in the median, none of the thoughts going through my mind were related to gods of any kind.
ImaginesABeach:
Oh no! Is everyone okay?
:( :( :(
(Years ago, Mr Darkheart rolled his pickup into a ditch. He said that his only thought was, “Oh shit, oh shit, OHSHITSHITSHITSHITSHIT!”)
I can totally understand if the non- and not-going-to-be pregnant among us don’t want to hear constant Darkfetus updates. Just say the word and I’ll totally take it down a notch. :)
One vote for continued darkfetus updates here. I haven’t seen you say anything that’s squickish, but my ideas of what can cause squick may be…off from the norm.
dianne:
I don’t think I been too squickish, either.
But, I figured that a “watch out, this is guh-ross!” warning would be appropriate for any post about detailed medical stuff &/or bodily fluids. :p
Neither the guy in the truck nor I were injured. I’m sore today, but I think the minivan is dead. I don’t know if they can fix the problem of the front passenger side tire being almost parallel to the pavement.
The two things I remember thinking were “oh shit” and “How do I keep this thing from hitting the stopped cars on the other side of the median?”
And afterwards, all I could think was Thank Technology! 20 years ago, this crash would have been much worse.
Audley – I don’t mind either. If you want, you could put a tw for darkfetus updates at the top of those posts, in case anyone who can’t emotionally deal with pregnancy right now or thinks it’s squicky or just boring could easily avoid.
ImaginesaBeach – I hope everyone’s and everything’s ok. :(
ImaginesABeach,
I’m glad you’re okay!
Thank goodness for technology!
I’m glad you’re all right, ImaginesABeach – my condolences on the passing of the minivan though.
Carlie:
I like this idea. I might just start off those posts with “Darkfetus update:”, so people know what they’re in for, just in case. :)
Just chiming in, I have no problems with Audley’s Darkfetus updates. So far, there has been a distinct lack of “this is magical and I am being fulfilled as a woman” sentiments.
But if she slips into “it is like my body was designed for this”, there will be blood!
It is a good thing that ImaginesABeach was not driving a libertarian designed vehicle.
Gentle hugs for ImaginesABeach.
Yay Technology!
—
“Fire Story” warnings work for Ogvorbis, “Darkfetus” warnings can work for Audley.
(I read everything, anyway.)
Thanks, Janine!
Designed, my ass. If I wasn’t already positive that there was no Grand Designer™, being pregnant would certainly cure me of that silly notion. If I was agnostic, I think this would push me into full atheism, in other words.
Seriously, I don’t know how anyone who has been pregnant can think that this shit is magical and perfect and whatever*. It’s difficult and painful and uncomfortable and tiring and gross and and and… . My body sucks at this and everything is progressing perfectly normally. Ugh.
I say this as someone who wants to have a child, so I’m in a positive frame of mind about the pregnancy in the first place. And this shit still sucks and there hasn’t been a single day where I haven’t thought to myself, “gee, this would be hella easier if I just laid an egg.”
* ::cough:: Mom. ::cough::
…Personally, I would appreciate a warning on just about all the pregnancy-related stuff, because I have a very low squick tolerance *for pregnancy* at all, not just the drippy aspects. It’s close to triggering or phobia levels. I realize this is unfair, unjustified, unusual, and probably rooted in the fundie misogyny I grew up with; and more to the point it’s not y’all’s problem. It’d just be helpful to me if I have a chance to brace myself before reading what y’all are so happy about.
Sorry. I should’ve refreshed quicker and just kept my trap shut. carlie said it better, above.
‘Tis #115
Who??? Oh, them!!! And Alan Botton and his Athiest Temples.
It’s not surprising. Nature abhors a vacuum and whenever there is a crowd moving, there will be people running in front of it to lead it. Or try to.
They haven’t gotten anywhere though. It’s like herding cats and is working just as well.
JT Eberhard: Just Another Internet Narcissist.
tell it to the kiwi
I’ve earned ban from Douche Bro blog! Yay me!
JT, you are a first-rate asshole dood-bro privileged little fuck and the company you defend ought to make you ashamed.
Pteryxx,
It’s no problem, really. I know that Katherine was bothered by it at first (I don’t knows how she feels now), but I still want to be able to share my news. If a quick warning at the beginning of those posts makes everyone happy, then I’m all for it! :)
Oh my gosh, Imaginesabeach—how horribly scary. I’m so glad to hear you’re OK.
Audley—I was being hyperbolic, of course. Talking about your baby moving isn’t anywhere near over the top.
Unless by “moving” you mean “piercing through the skin of my abdomen”.
What Janine said at #128. I think it’s kind of fascinating, though it squicks me. But not as much as what’s going on with my analogous parts.
I am entirely too proud that that shitbasket JT thought to put me on an enemies list with Josh and Ms. Daisy. JT and Co. are exactly why I tend to side-eye anyone who says that they’re an “ally”. Nah, in my opinion, that’s something other people say you are.
I was spending much of yesterday out and having fun with The Mr. (Macarons! Tea! Art! And OMG my first binder! I am a very happy androgyne!) and then having homemade burritos and G&Ts, so I didn’t get to throw in much at JT’s finger-wagging thread. Jeez, the one day I leave the house…
Heeeey Audley! I enjoy hearing about Darkfetus. Which reminds me, I’ve been slacking on finishing those crochet tentacles.
Figures the one day I actually have time to read TET, it’s all full of exciting drama and stuff! I never really cared much for JT’s blog anyway, just the title by itself was a little too egocentric for me.
Today I’m hanging out by myself at my sister’s friend’s house. I’m dog-sitting, which basically means filling up the dog bowl and opening up the door a couple times a day. The rest of it is just… peaceful alone time. No doubt Sis and BiL are glad to have some time for just them, too. Apparently they’re all confused about why I haven’t got some sort of shit weekend job yet, and aren’t I going to move out like a week after BiL gets his licence back? I suppose I could have gone to the mall or something earlier on but damn. That shit sucks, and I prefer to be putting my education to work, thanks very much. And I find it a bit, well, silly of them to invite me to stay for precisely as much time as it takes for BiL to get his license back and no longer. Anyway, we talked about it and BiL is going to have knee surgery in July, after which he’ll be out of work for two months anyway, but he said he’d be willing to quit earlier to take care of Niece #2 if I found a full time job in the meantime. So I’ve turned up the volume on job applications. I admit I’ve been a little lazy, but you know it was really nice to be lazy and stop sending out fucking job applications all the time for a month or two. I mean, it’s been well over a year by now. It gets old.
Hey MissEla, thanks for the shoutout too.
Brave Saudi Arabian Woman Confronts Religious Police Officer Harassing Her (VIDEO) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/25/brave-saudi-woman-confronts-police_n_1546375.html
And something that is (tenuously) related
Eurovision http://www.thelocal.se/41064/20120527/
Loreen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loreen_(singer)
-She is Moroccan-Berber-Swedish. And I can imagine the mullahs’ heads exploding. You go, girl!
— — — —
Vigilantism is rampant in South Africa because of the extreme violence (coupled to extreme social problems) and the failure of effective policing. When the “formal” society fails, it is up to the informal society to take up the slack. I do not condone the vigilantism but I can see where they are coming from.
@Daisy –
QFT.
And a question – have I given you reason to think I’m not on board with this? That’s serious, I know tone of voice doesn’t come through on the interwebz.
I want it to be okay to have a diagnosis and get treatment. Transsexuality is different than transgender, and transgender is what gets talked about more today to the point that it obscures the existence and nature of transsexuality. Although I wouldn’t go so far as to say that transsexual folk = the set of people with gender identity disorder, those groups are much closer to isomorphic than transgender folk are with either. Let’s in this particular case only describe transsexual folk as those with GID. There is terrible distress that comes with gender dysphoria. I know it. I’ve felt it. I’ve lived it.
There is **also** terrible distress that comes with the social stigma and oppression that comes from being transsexual in US (and Canadian and French – I won’t speak about societies where I haven’t lived) society. It is possible and indeed necessary to fight against such stigma. What isn’t necessary is to fight against the diagnosis itself. It’s perfectly possible to have a diagnosis without stigma. We don’t shun those with hayfever (though we may stand a little bit away from repeated sneezing). People with hayfever can go to doctors and not have the doctor assume that our hayfever drives us to report psychosomatic gastrointestinal symptoms and thus misdiagnose an ulcer.
I think we’re quite on the same page, but I wondered if you thought we were based on your phrasing.
Up to now I haven’t bothered with the JT business but now I am going to have a look.
*takes a deep breath*
Put on a HazMat suit, Chigau, cuz it’s a fuckin’ sewer.
Awe, what the hell, Chas? What the hell?
*sniffle* You just have to dash my fantasies so callously, don’t you? *sniffle*
(Where do the rest of its organs fit? That is so weirdly horrifying.)
Josh:
Oh, I know. :)
But it did get me thinking that not everyone’s gonna feel the same way about all of my news/updates. And it’s probably a good thing that finally dawned on me.
As much as chest-bursters totally suck, imagining myself as Sigourney Weaver is pretty awesome.
#117, Pteryxx
I don’t think that’s setting the bar very high, but it’s making me blush all the same.
Caution: further pregnancy related stuff ahead.
I had a bit of a pregnancy scare the last few days. Came to nothing*, fortunately, but when I wasn’t sure, I was telling myself, “Ok. Don’t panic. This is Philadelphia, not Arizona. I know just where the Planned Parenthood office is. Um…how long’s it been since I’ve had a period…not 20 weeks I’m pretty sure. So everything will be ok…NYC’s only an Amtrak ride away. No need to panic at all.”
Needless to say, I panicked. I’m probably in as good a situation as anyone in the US could be with respect to ability to get an abortion if needed and the thought of having to figure out how to do so still scared me. I can’t imagine how scared a teenager who doesn’t have any clue what to do or who to ask would be.
Even a wanted, physically normal pregnancy is stressful, mentally and physically. I was nauseous the whole 9 months and ended up losing weight. I had labor complications that would have killed me without appropriate use of technology. Pregnancy is not something to take lightly. Especially not someone else’s pregnancy. US out of everyone’s uterus!
*I think. There are things I still can’t explain physically, but other explanations have become much more probable.
I appreciate the further explanation, Crip dyke, some of that meaning wasn’t quite coming across to me either. I personally wonder if GID is best described as a mental thing, as opposed to neurological, but then I ultimately favour whatever meaning/diagnosis used as the one that allows for easiest/best access to transition for those who need it.
Unless by “moving” you mean “piercing through the skin of my abdomen”.
That’s how mine got out, eventually. Though she needed a co-conspirator to do the actual piercing of tissue.
IMHO, gender dysphoria is a physical problem: the body is wrong, not the brain. MRIs and other imaging of the brains of trans people demonstrate that their brains are more consistent with the gender they identify with than their physical birth gender (i.e. transwomen have larger language centers, etc). So the problem is that the body is wrong. That’s not a mental illness at all, except for the secondary damage done by a society that treats the people in question as mentally ill for accurately describing their own reality.
But I’m cis so the above may be a bunch of privileged crap.
Ack, it’s even worse! Your parasite had a symbiont.
The woman in the video’s main argument seemed to be that the pastor said some stuff, but people were taking it out of context or misinterpreting it. Now I’ll admit I didn’t see the actual sermon. But what is there to misinterpret? Did the pastor mean that gays and lesbians should be put behind the metaphorical electric fences in their heathen souls?
Anderson Cooper did as well as he could I think. If he attacked her more, she’d just go into martyr victim mode and he’d look like the bully.
General notes on the harassment-kerfuffle front:
– Jen tweeted that Abby apologized for dissing her research;
https://twitter.com/jennifurret/status/206541118341513216
– this post pingbacked on somebody’s blog (I lost track… *shame*) with an HR professional’s analysis of the risk factors in a conference environment.
http://www.skepticalabyss.com/?p=13
Your parasite had a symbiont.
About 30% of them do. Not counting…never mind. You don’t want to hear about that.
Oh jeez, Josh, you got banned? I didn’t notice – must have been up in one of those earlier freakin’ nests of comments.
I just tried explaining the story of Wes. If JT still doesn’t understand after that, I don’t know what else could work.
“defending the indefensible” is right. Sheeesh. That woman is scary on many levels but perhaps the worst is that she is fairly representative of a large swath of religious people all over the world. The utter disdain she has for Cooper, complete with eyerolling and faux outrage at having the asshole’s words quoted back to her, is tempered only by her sense of moral righteousness. The main problem being is her morals appear derived from the asshole of a sewer rats.
Oh, that’s easy to explain. When Eve fell for the bait set out by the great egomaniac in the sky she was punished, cursed for all eternity, with menstruation, painful childbirth, toilet seats left up, being a vessel for his pestle, etc.
See, all makes sense, right?
Besides, now that the fetus has quickened (which, audley enough, is also the name for the programme upon which I balance my checking account), you can play all sorts of games with Mr. Darkheart:
“The baby just moved. Put your hand here and feel it.”
Whether there is movement or not. heh heh heh. I am still convinced Wife did that to me more than once when she could not sleep.
I read about halfway through the fabled “let’s ban Pharyngula’s regulars because they’re mean-spirited shrill uppity narrowminded spiteful unfriendly distasteful entitled childish (and more adjectives) people” thread over at WWJTD.
Industrial strength facepalm was required.
I’m back.
I remember, now, the main reason I don’t read his blog.
I am incapable of following that embedded commenting shit.
The weapons-grade stupidity is obvious, though.
I don’t usually watch the videos at the beginning of the endless threads but I did this one. How can that woman stand to live with herself?
It’s worth pointing out that JT’s defending behavior that’s been called out on FtB before regarding sexism. That is, he’s defending the Excessively Skeptical Toward Utterly Uncontroversial Claims stance that’s animating people like Wes and the other “but why you so angry/want to hurt normal peeplez?” commenters.
It’s this shit that fuels the perception of “scientism” among the feminist/queer set.
“Show me a rational reason for your anger and I’ll accept it.”
“Show me evidence that your approach will bring a net gain instead of a loss and I’ll accept it.”
“Express your anger, but know you are obliged to append it with an analysis sufficiently rigorous to my taste or you will be dismissed as provocative.”
Not to mention how Stephanie Svan and Jason Thibeault exposed themselves as self-satisfied Friends of Homos™ when they got all pissy that people like me didn’t get down and lick Obama’s boots over his gay marriage statements. They went all to pieces with rapturous joy as if it were their fucking liberation day and how dare an actual queer pour water on their parade.
Heteros—it ain’t about you. I’ll thank you for your professional allying when you shut the fuck up and remember it’s not YOUR civil rights on the line.
Remember that the DSM is a manual of **psychiatric** disorders.
It is often mistakenly assumed to be written by psychologists. This is not true. It is written by (well, it’s final form is controlled by) psychiatrists and psychiatrists are **medical doctors**. The volume includes and intends to include neurological conditions that are primarily diagnosable via interactive diagnosis involving communication. While stroke per se is not primarily diagnosed via communication & isn’t in the DSM, autism and schizophrenia (just to name two) are clearly neurological in nature but are diagnosed in large part through interactive communication and behavioral observation.
The DSM is not a collection of disorders that share a common etiology. To say that gender dysphoria is neurological or psychological has no bearing on whether the DSM will include GD as a diagnosable condition or not.
Also, I’m wary of things like “brain scans reveal that neurology is consistent with gender identity and inconsistent with biological sex”. Even if true, that tells you nothing about which one is *wrong* and therefore requires treatment – the brain or the biological sex. If brain surgery (existed and) cost less than SRS, the same argument could be used to insist that the “neurological condition” be fixed rather than the biological sex features restructured.
There is not now a clear test for diagnosis of gender dysphoria that is innately technological that would fall within the realm of a medical specialist other than a psychiatrist. Thus psychiatrists are the only medical doctors who – in the foreseeable future – will diagnose GD. Psychiatrists use the DSM as a tool for differential diagnosis and removing GD would effectively remove the ability of psychiatrists to diagnose. Since no other medical doctor can, there would be no medical diagnosis.
Even if psychologists decided to write their own manual (they won’t) and included GD, that wouldn’t change the overall perception of GD from that of a psychological disorder to that of a neurological disorder – in fact, it would enhance the psychological aspects.
As a final note – not only is the DSM not written according to etiology, but the diagnosis itself says nothing about the etiology because we don’t actually know the etiology. It might be environmental for all we know. It would have to be an environmental factor extant as far back as recorded gender histories, but it could theoretically be an enviro factor.
Short answer? The DSM doesn’t say anything about whether GD is psychological or neurological in origination, and there isn’t any good evidence either way at the moment. To the extent that people assume that the DSM makes it psychological, they really, really don’t understand the DSM. To the extent that people think that removing a valid diagnosis from the DSM so as to prevent stigma for that group of people who don’t even have the diagnosis but catch poorly aimed stigma targeted at that group is a good anti-stigma strategy they really, really don’t understand stigma. That isn’t an argument against stigma. It’s an argument that, while certain people deserve stigma, this person I value (perhaps myself) doesn’t because we’re not like those weirdos who are described in that book-of-permission-to-stigmatize.
I reject that the DSM is a legitimate (or even intended) source of info about whom society may or should stigmatize. Therefore I reject that removing diagnoses one by one from that book until only the really bad people are left is just plain silly.
the people who think they need to be good because yhwh tells them to have fallen for an ad baculum fallacy and are evil. they project their evil onto the rest of us.
I hadn’t yet said it – or maybe I had, but I’ll say it again:
Josh, Daisy, Sally(?), and all the people I’m forgetting, **thank you** for doing work on the JT and Christina threads. I really couldn’t. I mean, I couldn’t. I didn’t have my computer for 4 days and responding adequately typing on my iPod (notice the “O”) was taking so long and the delay simply amped my frustration so much that I never got a first post out, much less a response to the comments.
Plus just reading everything on that small screen was difficult. I’m trying to decide if I want to go back and read any more – and if I want to comment now that I’ve had my laptop back since last night – but I’m leaning strongly against.
Josh,
You know what I love? How DCS thread has descended into butthurt cis people discussing their feelings and how terribly scary DCS message is, now that real derailers and aggressors have been banned (with a couple of notable exceptions, like Anna who kept [politely] fighting, but finally lost her patience). If JT and Christine were willing to look, that should be proof enough that it wasn’t much of a victory when they got rid of Pharynguloids.
Oggie:
*facepalm!* Of course!
My fuzzy, pink, liberal, feminist, godless, lady brainz always manage to forget my place! Suffering for Original Sin is where it’s at!
(As an aside, Mr Darkheart doesn’t leave the toilet seat up, so I dodged a bullet with that one.)
I used to use quicken for my accounting, but while there is a mac version for the USA there isn’t one for Australia. They suggested the (ultra expensive) web version, so I ignored the lot and got Gnucash which could import the QIF files. It’s got its own quirks but at least I can properly schedule things as yearly now (the version of quicken kept scheduling things as twice a year if you attempted to put them in as a yearly scheduled item).
And in a probably futile attempt to sleep before 2am I’m going to try to go to bed (I’m consistent… If only I could consistently go to bed earlier)
pf, welcome to the shark tank, you’re a fine addition.
ImaginesABeach, I’m so relieved you’re okay!
Waves at everyone else, I hafta to go clean up my kitchen. Then I really, really have to get back to work on The Darkheart Duckie Project, I am waaaaaay behind.
Chase, Esme & Rubin Plinge are having heart failure because I tore the studio apart over the last two days, cleaning and rearranging shit. It’s not as fun for them anymore. Oh well, life sucks sometimes. Need more tea, back later.
Audley: Even as someone who doesn’t like babies and never wants one of her own, I’m thoroughly enjoying the Darkfetus updates. Please let us know, though, if we’re doing the Internet version of that weird thing where people ask pregnant women incredibly personal and inappropriate questions.
dianne:
I’m all in favour of more grossness. You’ve piqued my interest.
Yeah Beatrice, it’s an ethical shit show. They should be ashamed of themselves but they won’t be. This is transparently the very first time they’ve ever been confronted with the suggestion that they’re not perfect never-to-be-criticized Honorary Queers. What we’re witnessing is real shock. I don’t know how you manage to get through to adulthood without facing that, but there you go.
Project Rhododendron was a success. But their flowers are falling apart now, and they don’t travel or last. But, the roses and lilies are blooming, along with the chives, so I still have fresh flowers to take to the Redhead. Thanks to her earlier work.
BTW Zuzka is baaaack http://scientopia.org/blogs/thusspakezuska/
I have no opinion of her blog, but her fate provides hope for long-term migraine sufferers.
— — — —
Swedish mother’s day is today, I went over to the care facility and discovered mom’s TV remote has gone missing. The staff will help loking for it, but I will start looking for a replacement. She has great difficulty moving about, so the TV takes up much of the slack for daily activities. Fortunately she gets to meet the other elderly during mealtimes, and I have given her a better telephone.
Josh,
But but but! It’s not all about us? Everything’s not all about straight people, all the time?
I… I don’t think I can handle that! *faints!*
Nutmeg:
Thanks! I’m glad that I can share with you guys. :)
I’m a pretty open person, so most of the time, I don’t think I’ll mind most questions. But, if there is something that’s totes over-the-line, I’ll let you know!
I don’t think it’s reasonable to suppose that maybe JT just doesn’t understand. Maybe at first, his statements could’ve been interpreted that way, when taken in isolation; but he very quickly made it a pattern and made it obvious that he was being deliberate about it. I don’t know what we could do either, except ever more “derailing” and watching him fail miserably with his approach, if he ever stops kissing his own “allied” ass and tries to “educate” the dishonest shitstains he’s aligning himself with.
Nerd, cheers for Project Rhododendron! (I rly have nothing non-banal to say. Thank you.)
Nerd:
Aaaaw, sweet. The only success I’ve had with cut flowers lately is with the Irises. However, the peonies should be blooming…must go check. Hugses to you and The Redhead.
@dianne #160:
“My pastor said it, he’s always been good to me and he has a hotline to God. People with a hotline to God don’t get things wrong. That TV interviewer was nasty to me and didn’t listen to my answers. Why won’t he listen to God? I’m glad it’s all over. I’m going home now.”
Cognitive dissonance. Better not to actually think about anything upsetting, or question anything; just go with the emotional flow, the social conditioning, the gut responses. I sincerely hope I’m wrong, that she did stop and think about it all once the pressure was off, but I wouldn’t put money on it even if I were gambling man.
Sadness all round.
Beware of bringing peonies indoors. They are usually infested with ants. At least ours are.
JT writes:
Seriously. Let that sink in. Contemplate what that says about his moral compass. He’s flat-out admitting that his commitment to a cause is proportional to whether the person affected by the cause pisses him off. Look how knee-jerk he is about “guilt”. Good Christ.
Dood—sometimes you should feel guilty.
It is a particularly cruel trick of the universe that I am terrified of ants (the only bug I am at all afraid of) and love peonies. So there’s a bunch of peonies (and a rabbit, and a full moon) tattooed on my foot, so I can at least enjoy them in image form without fear.
re JT again: for what it’s worth, I’m willing to think that he really doesn’t understand, thus really does perceive all the efforts to educate him as unjustified personal attacks on his Obvious Allyness. I’m sure he *believes* he’s sincere; that’s how denial works. Cognitive blocks are really difficult to just power one’s way past, and rationalization’s all but useless – I still have a hard time believing some of y’all like my comments, in spite of all the perfectly clear evidence to the contrary. *blush*
Anyway, whether JT’s sincere in his privileged cluelessness doesn’t absolve him or make up for the resulting intellectual dishonesty. It’s still not right, justified, or any less harmful or disgusting.
I think as long as you use the word “Darkfetus,” I can take anything. It’s ominous when I need it to be and hilarious for all other occasions. Sometimes both.
@ chigau
If I ever use anything but the commenting principles applied in this blog, you may shoot me. OK?
@ Tâlib Alttaawiil
It takes a while to get up to speed here. No wucking furries. Welcome.
Funny how three insightful members of Teh Horde; Happiestsadist, Josh and Ms. Daisy Cutter, gets called out by JT while Wes is given a free pass. Had to love how Anna gave her reason why she supported Die Cis Scum and how Wes asked why not ? Someone should have point Wes (And others.) to the Transgender Day Of Remembrance and the Remembering Our Dead sites. And point out that Wes is under no threat of overkill because he is “deceiving” anyone.
Also had to love the false equivalency of Die Cis Scum with Die Black or Intercity Scum.
bleag…
Even if true, that tells you nothing about which one is *wrong* and therefore requires treatment – the brain or the biological sex.
My take home message was a bit different: IMHO, the message is that a person’s gender is what they say it is and if it is not congruent with their apparent biological sex they can make the decision about what they want to do or not do about that. It’s really no one else’s business.
You’re likely right, Pterryx. But the only way he’s going to learn (if he can learn to see this differently) is by having it pointed out. He deserves to be harshly criticized. It should cause some pain. No, he’s not gonna like it and he’s in double-down mode now, but too bad.
Does the following remind any of you of the whining from the MRAs? JT again:
All this from someone who is shockingly unable to identify JAQ’ing off when he sees it, and actually emotionally identifies with the JAQers.
jeezis that woman is horrible. I’m going to be seeing her again in nightmares, I know it.
I’m all in favour of more grossness. You’ve piqued my interest.
Episiotomy. Wiki’s description is probably graphic enough to satisfy you. It’s no longer used routinely in the US.
-Giliell @118
I thought it worth repeating.
Ophelia she’s so awful I couldn’t stop laughing when I first saw the broadcast. It’s literally like a character from The Onion. . . the eye-rolling, the clumsy inappropriate deployment of Terms de PR Art (“context”). But yeah, this is the real face of evil. It’s not a bogeyman, it’s your next-door neighbor.
Janine: Yep, as long as you agree with JT & Co., you can be as much of a douchebucket as you want. Really offensive false equivalences are a-okay so long as they support the tone-deaf “allies”.
Also, maybe I blushed at the “insightful”.
Pteryxx, I think you’re right. Privilege and cognitive blocks likely make them think that how they’re misperceiving things is correct. On the other hand, I’m pretty much out of fucks to give about that. They got more than enough patience from enough people, in a wide variety of tones and explanations, that there’s no excuse. (Not saying you were implying there was.)
And I like you, Pteryxx.
Well, this is where I have a slither of hope:
They actually are in shock. Their self-image is based on this “good people ally thingy” and they’re feeling threatened and therefore fight back.
My hope is that when the dust has settled they’ll think about it and will come quietly to the conclusion that they fucked up. And that’s my hope because it happened to me more than once. Which doesn’t mean that you should leave them in peace. To me, the fact that there were people angry at me was important.
Actually those lil parasites seem to be more active when the mum to be finally takes a rest and then they start kickboxing. It’s only fair that the daddies to be get their share of being sleepless :)
You know what was even weirder than feeling fetus move for the first time?
The fact that years after pregnancy certain bowel movements can still feel like fetal movement (cue instant “shit I’m 5 months pregnant and didn’t notice panic)
I missed it, CripDyke, so I must add my appreciation to yours. I’m just catching up now on all the brouhaha.
One sure as shit do not hear about this in the what to expect when you are pregnant guides.
Slightly ‘rupt, but just wanted to drive by quickly to say Thank Technology you’re OK, ImaginesAbeach! That must have been terrifying. Hope you get compensation from the other driver’s insurance enabling you to replace your untimely-dead vehicle … ?
Better a dead vehicle then a dead driver.
Josh, I’m sorry you were banned. It makes no sense. Both of those threads (DCS & Please give the cis-men a bullet list so that they don’t have to actually think.) were presented as asking for information on being a better ally. Instead it turned into “My ally status grants me special privilege, respect.”
I don’t understand why that “scientism” can’t be focused inward. Immediate aggressive dismissal is a known response to being challenged on previously unexamined bias.
Cripdyke—it’ll be interesting to see if any of the “work” eventually pays off. Being banninated I have been put into early retirement but I can enjoy the spectacle of watching DoodBro Extreme DoubleDown.
It’s in the fantasy round now, with JT reminding people that he needs Evidence that his position is wrong and no one has yet provided him with Evidence but they’ve Insulted him and caused him to lose empathy. Not with the person, but with the issue.
Bleargh. He’s willing to admit an overtly innocuous phrase can be a dig, as long as HE perceives it as such (and it’s coming from someone he thinks is attacking everyone for no good reason). Yet he argues that Just Asking Questions deserves the benefit of the doubt, and shouldn’t be taken as offensive, derailing, or dishonest.
Think he’ll be willing to accept Josh’s dig as Evidence?
—
(refreshed) Josh: No, it’s exactly the same as MRA excuses, or even that poor deluded person in PZ’s video above. No rational argument will get through to them because *every* argument will be perceived as irrational and unjustified by definition. The only salient difference is how conscious the person is of their own dishonesty; and even that doesn’t matter except as they act on it.
http://blainn.com/abuse/denial.html
The only way folks on the outside can affect this loop is to make the rationalization process as obvious and difficult to ignore (and thus painful) as possible. I just don’t usually go into full insult mode because I personally don’t work that way; I’d rather do precision dissection. (I suspect that being able to turn the heat on someone by personal disapproval is actually a manifestation of social skills that I lack.)
(Wow, I’m slow. Heck, I’m posting it anyway.)
I appreciate the sentiment, K, but it’s riotous that JT would think I, Daisy, or Happiest give such big flying fucks. Big old Drama Llama titles his post “If you want to keep commenting here.” Ooooo. . please don’t deprive me of the sweet, sweet douchitude that is my sustenance!
Read the second half of the JT thread.
I had to switch to rapid-fire military facepalm.
He wants to be a champion of the oppressed, and those same oppressed tell him he’s being an ass, and wrong, and then he turns on them.
Championing isn’t achieved that way.
Actually, isn’t he just JAQing off at this point? People have shown him 101 material, to which he has insightfully replied that it is wrong or doesn’t apply to this situation at all.
I am sure that many religious people in the US are religious of the Russian Orthodox Church.
I sat on a jury a few years ago in a civil suit, a malpractice case, involving an injury to the child during the birth process. They gave us some education on the whole process, with anatomical charts and stuff, explained it all…and I pretty much came away thinking childbirth is entirely impossible. Okay, maybe not really, as I’m actually a father myself.
It didn’t help that I missed my daughter’s birth (I was out of town working that weekend, which was a week before the due date).
Still, just looking at the schematics…design? I don’t think so.
I don’t mind the updates, though. It’s not a matter of squick.
As for JT, I read the post “If you want to comment here…” and got as far as seeing that he had problems with three of our regulars here, and decided I probably needn’t bother with that blog.
Since trans issues and religious types demonizing the queers are both prominent in this thread, I thought it time to bring up this onion article.
It begins:
A Poe in the best sense of the term. Don’t be put off by the fictional-godbot confusing hermaphroditism and transgender. That’s part of its charm – portraying the ignorant as ignorant.
Sigh. I really, really wish I could claim a hand in writing something like this. I enjoy a good Swiftian takedown or a good Petronian nose-tweak. But now I can never even attempt to write such a thing because I just couldn’t come close to the glory that is the Onion.
Nebulous, not well thought out idea about allies behaving badly that I’m throwing out there in the hopes that it might be useful:
People who are straight and cis but allied with or who want to be allied with GLBT people often have spent a lot of time getting called gay for defending the rights of GLBT people or having their sexuality questioned if they don’t conform perfectly to gender stereotypes. This creates a certain feeling of having been oppressed and having “earned” rights in the movement. I realize that makes very little sense and there are four or five forms of privilege packed in that statement and all that. But it might explain some of the feeling of entitlement that straights display in this sort of discussion.
Josh: Well damn, I didn’t even see JT said that in response to ME. Great. Well, back into nested comment hell.
It is funny, I prefer method of alliance of two of our old straight white men of Teh Horde, ‘Tis and Nerd. They go out of their way to let those they are allied with speak for themselves.
Nerd:
Oh, sweet!
(Creepy pregnancy stuff)
Janine:
:D
There is so fucking much that no one tells you about pregnancy and there’s plenty of shit you have to learn the hard way.
I think it’s linked to what you said before: “‘this is magical and I am being fulfilled as a woman'”. If you whine and groan about the normal stuff, then you’re not “good enough” or “womanly enough” (it’s your fucking job, ladies!) and that leads to not talking about the little (harmless) annoyances.
For instance, I had abdominal ligament pain during my first trimester*. This is perfectly normal and completely harmless, but whoa it sucks. It’s caused by the uterus pressing against one of the ligaments in the abdominal cavity and many pregnant women experience that pain. But, was I expecting that this could happen? I didn’t even know there was such a problem and I’ve been reading pregnancy books and everything.
*Which, thankfully, seems to have abated.
Josh:
This. I had real difficulty getting through to my partner, and various friends, that the states’ rights comment flushed away any moral or ethical credibility that Obama was laying claim to in supporting equal marriage, that you don’t have a ‘free vote’ on the civil rights of other human beings (thanks, ‘Call Me Dave’ Cameron, but what did we expect from the official Nasty Party?), that this should not be up for argumentum ad populum… And colour me surprised that JT was one of the ‘allies’ that Just Didn’t Get It.
I’ve never seen jenniferforrester comment before, but I wish she’d come over here. She rocks.
Oh wow, that was my intestines doing that? I’ve felt that a few times, and I was all “WHAT THE HELL, ORGANS?” at my body. Not nice, body!
This is funny. Matt Barber, under the hashtag of DescribeObamaInThreeWords tweeted this:
Throws like girl
Just remember that dubya made a fine throw for an opening pitch. That proves what a fine upstanding decider he was.
Josh, #1,
A-FUCKETY-GREED!! With double affirmation sauce and a side of complete concurrence.
I am Captain Sympathy and Understanding when it comes to being clueless. Here is a gentle tap with the cluestick. He is a second gentle tap with the cluestick. Here is a third, slightly less gentle tap with the cluestick.
What? You’re STILL clueless? Repeating the identical clueless shit you were a moment ago? As if the cluestick never existed?
Oh dear.
SERVANTS!! Bring me my Righteous Blow Torch Of Piss Taking and Over 9000 Mockery and some Industrial Strength Abuse Pliers! I’m about to get medieval on this clueless motherfucker.
This woman has crossed the line from clueless to active apologist for bigotry and, well, evil. There is no better word. She doesn’t get to start with the cluestick. She gets to start at “medieval” and then we work up from there to “moderately unpleasant”.
And believe me, you do not want to go there.
Louis
Carlie – you wanna provide a link to the comment by jenniferforrester?
I really don’t have the ability to read all that stuff.
Crip Dyke, jenniferforrester has been all over those pages. It would not take long to find her statements.
It’s interesting watching commenters at JTs—people you know he views as speaking to him in an appropriately deferential way, not shitheads like me—take him to task. They’re saying exactly the same things as the loudmouths were saying and calling him out on unjust and disproportionate standards. His only response so far have been to throw in a few “that’s a good point but”s, or to demand Moar Evidenz.
I wonder what the critical mass is for him, the tipping point where enough people he hasn’t categorized as untrustworthy interlocutors tell him he’s wrong that he stops the double-down.
@ dianne
This much is true. But personally I only care for basic human rights. I’m not an Ally ™ – I’m merely human.
Apologies if you already know this or if I’m mangling the explanation, but I read that if you compare a kiwi’s single huge egg to, say, a chicken’s average clutch of eggs, the amount of ‘egg to body’ is about the same proportion. Just that for whatever reason Kiwis ‘put all their eggs in one basket’ (which is a giant egg) in a reproductive sense.
So instead of laying a clutch like other birds, the kiwi strains out one grotesquely oversize egg. Not bizarre at all when you think about it, right? ;)
Because there’s so much to respond to, I’m going to do it Marjanovic-style, and with subheaders.
JT clusterfuck
Josh, that quote from JT (your #180) really does say it all. His priority is having his ego stroked for being an “ally.” He doesn’t give a fuck about the actual effect he’s having on the people he presumes to “defend.” And what Pteryxx says at #200 about double standards for certain “innocuous” remarks.
/chokes on lunch
Beatrice: I too noticed that JT ignores any challenging questions that contain no “uncivil” language. A reliable red flag in any debate.
Also, Anna “lost her patience”? Because she was right in there yesterday sucking up to JT and Christina on the “civility” issue.
Carlie, what HappiestSadist said. If you made “The Enemies List,” be proud. Condemnation from certain people ought to be taken as high praise.
Giliell: Now that you mention it, hell, yes, “spoilt kid” is a vibe I get from JT.
Crip Dyke, thanks for the praise at #165, although I don’t think I did anywhere near as much work as, say, Josh or Carlie. Patience is not my strong point, and while I am getting better thanks to this blog at articulating arguments, in the face of sheer and willful idiocy I give up before long and just start sniping.
Janine, I too blushed a little at “insightful.” Thank you.
Pteryxx:
I think it’s a matter of temperament and preference, myself. Precision dissection may not change the minds of people like JT, but it could sway a lot of lurkers.
Kerfluffle, I should thank you for your comment in that first thread, where you called JT out on one of his replies to me. Not that it made a dent, but I appreciated the validation.
Dianne, #206: Here’s a perfect example from Melissa McEwan. As someone who is cis, straight, and not very girly, it really makes me facepalm hard.
BTW, my bud Keori has a post up on this matter, not naming any names, since most of her readership isn’t involved on FTB. (She finally got a login here after months of lurking, but she’s usually too busy to get involved in internet commenting these days.)
Mental illness and transgenderism
Crip Dyke: When I replied earlier, I was ill rested (I’ve since slept more). I was picking up some anger from your previous comment, but because of my fatigue and because tone is hard to convey on the internet, I wasn’t sure whether you were taking me to task or I was imagining it. I also wasn’t sure whether, if the former were true, whether you had considered me to have committed trans fail or ableism fail.
I think you and I are on the same page; there need to be tools in place to enable treatment. Again, thanks for the clarifications on terminology, as well as the clarification of what the DSM is and is not.
Skeptifem, your comparison of a trans* person to a mentally ill person also compares, by implication, how transphobes regard trans people to how a child might react to abuse or neglect committed by a parent who is in need of treatment. I’m not okay with that.
I do understand that psychiatry has been co-opted as a tool of oppression; I’ve experienced some of that myself, other people I’ve known much, much worse. However, I don’t believe that psychiatry is oppressive in and of itself. The “mental illness communities” are full of denialism. I don’t see any “empowerment,” for example, when people are wandering the streets muttering to the voices only they can hear, unwashed, poorly fed, and at risk of violence.
Xanthe, thanks for the explanation at #114. I found it helpful as well.
Other stuff
ImaginesABeach: Holy shit. I’m glad you’re OK, though I hope you get checked out to make sure you are (see discussion in previous TET in response to Giliell’s accident the other day). Sorry about the minivan.
Audley: I respect Pteryxx’s request for a TW, but I myself don’t find anything squicky about the DarkFetus updates. Now, if you started going all Babycenter Dot Com on us and started describing your mucus plug…. :P
Sally: Gah. I hope you manage to find work soon. What sorts of jobs are you looking for? Could any of us try to help you “network” with people in your area that are in our fields?
‘Tis, I think Be Scofield would make a more likely pope.
Pteryxx: Well, it’s good that Abbie has apologized for at least one small thing.
Caine: I didn’t know that rats, like cats, get all upset if you rearrange the Matrix without their authorization.
Which, of course, I read as “egg on body,” as in, “Hawt egg-on-body action.”
Audley I think we have a new job for you in your spare time. Roll internal cameras.
TLC – there is an explanation of it in one of Gould’s books that is interesting (and I don’t think has been disproved) – that the evolutionary body shrinkage that happens to endemic species doesn’t happen at the same rate as shrinkage of other things, like eggs, (and the mathy word for that is at the edges of my brain and won’t come out) and so the kiwi has ended up being literally too small for its own eggs.
Josh:
My GUESS would be that critical mass might have been passed already, but it won’t ‘set’ until days or weeks have gone by. If so, there might be small changes in his judgment calls, and in approximately three months he’ll make a good move. Few people are aware of their mind changing at the moment it actually happened – only in retrospect.
You’re so perfectly right, of course.
Crip Dyke – she’s had several. Here are a few:
here
here
here
Christ, I am the Queen of displacement activity. I have a fucktonne of stuff to do today, so I decided…to make a tablecloth out of fat quarters. Aarrgh. Oh well, almost done.
That’s interesting, Carlie, but I’ve often heard similar sorts of explanations for things debunked, simplistic ‘just-so story’ explanations, though I’m not sure if that is one or not. It’s not as ridiculous as when I used to read on websites that the Irish Giant Elk went extinct ‘because its antlers grew too huge’ or the Smilodon might have disappeared ‘because their fangs grew too long for their mouths to open properly’.
The kiwi is weird as hell compared to its relatives, the ratites, which in turn are weird as hell.
Consider that emus, cassowaries, rheas, and ostriches (as well as numerous extinct forms) are large FLIGHTLESS ground birds highly adapted for walking and running. Consider that many of these birds are also found on completely separate continents, including many islands. That would mean that their body form was evolved multiple times convergently, wouldn’t it?
I know, nothing new to most people here, but I find this kind of thing fascinating from my perspective on things.
By which I meant to say ‘compared to the rest of the ratites.’ Herpaderp.
Oh, I didn’t know being called gay grants us straight people Special Insight. I’ve been called lesbian, every time I meet certain people they ask probing question about my “relationship” with my best (girl)friend and there was a really uncomfortable situation (actually, it would amount to sexual harassment, but we all know that we have to forgive clueless men all kinds of things) where this one guy tried to physically force us to kiss.
So, where are my lesbian cookies?
/joking, hope it wasn’t inappropriate
Beatrice, I bakeded u theez cookies but ur sposed to eetz them in front of JT so he getz maddz. :)))
And yes, they’re made with Real Lesbians™.
Daisy:
In comparison, cats help you move the furniture. Rats absolutely flip the fuck out. Takes them weeks to adjust. Even Chas is seriously upset about this one, he hasn’t even bothered to run about laying pee trails for the kidz. I’m going to have to make a couple of concessions for them, they’ve even turned their backs on Nutella. Tsk.
@Daisy –
I’m passionate about this stuff, but I’m not angry at anyone except those folks who genuinely are trying to remove the diagnosis from the DSM for the purpose of removing stigma. If they mistakenly believe that there is no such thing as intrinsic distress, they are ignorant and wrong, but in theory persuadable. If they believe that the response to stigma is stop stigmatizing me, go stigmatize those truly Fd up folks over there, then they are being selfish and immoral.
When I’m pissed at someone, I’m generally not afraid to say it. When I say I’m pissed at a statement not a person, that’s something you can take as true. When I just write passionately and forcefully, it’s an issue I care about, but there’s no anger per se – at least not any directed at the current audience.
I try to be explicit about that stuff since the internet is so open to interpretation.
Janine & Carlie:
Thanks. I really, really didn’t wanna wade into those threads, but maybe I will. I’ll at least look at your links, Carlie. I appreciate the work you did to find them for me & I won’t let it go to waste.
back later y’all. I’ve got a lunch to celebrate getting into law school.
It really is nice to know that other people’s minds sometimes do the same weird shit to what has been written. I love this place — for the compassion, the honesty, the safety, and the just plain what-the-fuck weirdness.
Ah. One kilopoop.
I have done that to myself at work on occasion. I need to do x, y and z before cob td. So I add a to that list because I am what, a masochist?
#221: the magic woid is “allometry”.
Wize Werdz from shaunphilly.
1. Please to be respectfully thanking you Mister Sir for the guidances and learnings.
2. Anyone who claims a motto is a HoneyNut Shetbag.
Ogvorbis:
I must be, because it’s habitual.
Congratulations girl!!!
*scuffles off to look up ‘allometry’ so the brain itch gets scratched* Ta very much, carlie and PZ!
I though ‘allometry’ was the way we measured all of everything (well, geometry is for measuring geodes, right?). Hmm. Guess my liberal arts degree has expired.
Oh, Oggie, it’s a proper neurological condition for me. The worst. As I’ve mentioned before, I’ve read:
for “New England Creamery”
for “Coupon Organizer”
for “Hunan Dumplings” (extra bonus genuine puzzlement about how “human” dumplings could also be vegan. No, I’m not kidding).
Aw, you’re a sweetheart Josh. I’d give a special mention that they’re from you so that he gets extra jealous. :)
I used to have a box of Frozen Bearded Onion Rings in the corner of my room. At least, that’s what it said when seen out of the corner of my eye.
CHOKING ON ICED COFFEE
OMG I wish you could hear how hard I’m laughing and crying, feralboy. THANK YOU! Moar of this kind of thing pleez.
Wait..Another it’s not just me moment, yay! It causes me to panic every damn time because I’m in AZ, even if I hadn’t had sex in months.
Oh, ewww to the man that did that. I get called a dyke all the time since I’m fat, ugly and clearly no man would want me. Or on online gaming cuz only men game and clearly I’m a fag for telling them to stfu with that homophobic shit. So do I get extra cookies of both kinds?
As far as JT is concerned, ugh. Thank you for everyone dealing with him and fighting the good fight. I’ve never been a fan of his, I’ve always gotten a vibe from him that I was extremely uncomfortable with. Ok, that probably doesn’t make any sense but it’s the best way I can describe it. Fuck him and fuck that shit.
Josh @201. Apologies, my comment was unclear. It was more “I’m sorry that you are no longer contributing.” as opposed to “I’m sorry that Mr. Meaniepants tossed his weight around.”
Also, a little confused. “Die Cis Scum” is about the valid anger of oppressed minorities. Booting the living example is weird.
Ms. Daisy Cutter @ 219. I lurk a lot. (Y’all are intimidating.) Comments make FTB a relatively safe space. I recognize many of the voices, including yours. When JT decided that “allies” was conditional, it felt personal.
My experiences with RL atheism have not been entirely positive. It’s scary to think that someone I would casually trust in person would hang someone out to dry. Women who have branded as “bad for atheism” get threats (unless they play MRA den mother.) “You’re not my ally because you’re being divisive” is potentially dangerous.
I don’t expect you to get much blowback over this. That’s not it. Blatant use of the power behind privilege worries me.
OK. I’m starting a list of creative misreadings (maybe I’ll even get it to the Wiki this time). Submissions gleefully accepted, but they have to be real experiences.
Josh
♥ the new ‘nym!
Did you do something to your avatar or is my browser having it’s daily episode?
Chigau: episode. Your browser is having one of its spells.
Ms Daisy Cutter,
THIS!
Full disclosure: I work in the pharmaceutical industry doing drug discovery. I am currently leading a project trying to make a particular type of mental health drug.
I am absolutely not going to defend the worst, or even the moderate, evils of my industry. They exist, they happen, they are largely a result of the fact that it is an “industry” (I strongly think it shouldn’t be entirely an “industry” in the capitalist sense. That is a 12 page 24 hour rant with double swearing and extra nastiness).
What I will say is that when you are dealing with people whose behaviour has genuinely become beyond problematic, and beyond what is within anything approaching normal bounds you have a real quandary on your hands. Serious delusional states, for example, are no laughing matter, and more often than not the people in them are unaware of the delusional nature of state. They lack desperately needed insight. It’s the Dunning Krugerest Dunning Kruger, if you like, although I think that’s a harsh way to look at it.
For all the misuse of psychiatry, psychology and psychoactive medications, and it does happen and is a real and present problem that needs stamping on, buying into the delusion out of misguided compassion is rarely the way forward. As with everything in this field, it’s complicated, so no one size fits all approach works, and the state of the science is not yet perhaps what we’d like it to be. As if it is anywhere!
The stigmatisation of people with mental illnesses, because they exist, the brain does get “ill”, is equally as non-constructive. Scratch that. Not “equally”, far worse. But the cure for that is not misplaced empowerment and blind compassion, sometimes the most empowering and compassionate thing to do is give these people the tools to get out of these states and THEN empower them and be compassionate in more familiar ways. It’s a sad and unfortunate reality, not one I like, but one I’ve seen through my voluntary work.
Louis
On the subject of Josh’s avatar:
When I think of you I think of your avatar here. I was shocked at the real you in pictures since it didn’t match your avatar. Good lord, I know it’s not what you look like. It just fits your attitude here so well, my brain was all “WTF?” and then I facepalmed.
At JT’s: another idiot who has trouble parsing that my ‘nym is a joke, not a proclamation of discursive authority:
Improbable Joe:
Josh @ 240. There is a self-storage unit in Fife, WA, that has a billboard up with their name on it. I used to drive back-and-forth through there a lot in college and I *always* had to do a double take at “You-Store-It Mini Whorehouses.”
Yup. You’re back.
Odd that it was only your avatar that was disappeared.
Have you offended any small gods recently?
That’s excellent! I AM JOAN DUNAWAY. De facto.
MissEla: LOLOOOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. I cannot tell you how happy that makes me. This kind of thing is my favoritest evah. I’m laughing so hard I think people on the sidewalk outside my house can hear me.
Chigau: Haven’t offended any small gods, only small peens.
No! More! Wirehangers! Ever!
I can’t decide whether to jump on JT’s blog or not. The nested comments make it really hard to keep up with anything. And I’d just end up getting myself banned after one or two comments anyways.
Oh please don’t throw you in the briar patch!
Thanks for the good wishes, everyone. I just need to add that I am also thankful to the science and scientists that have provided us with things like ibuprofen for the many aches and twinges I am experiencing today.
Josh, here’s one for you – I read ‘Steam Mop’ as ‘Satan Mop’. You don’t want to know what ran through my mind before I realized what it actually was.
OMG, it’s gone meta. Reading over my own list I misread a misreading.
Josh’s avatar reminds me, years ago at an other blog, I used a photo of Patsy Stone as my avatar. Not quite sure what image of myself I was trying to create.
“It fell off.”
My specialty is creative mispellings — strumpet solo, I am fred up with — that sort of idiocy.
My creative misreadings? Lemme see.
Satan sheets. (Satin sheets)
Rice comb. (Lice comb)
ALl I can remember right now.
Knights in white Satan.
Yes! Thank you! That’s been bothering me all day. All I could do was picture a diagram of a growing leaf with an unevenly expanding grid superimposed on it, but couldn’t remember the caption. :D
Daisy:
Ew ew ew!
Josh:
Ew ew ew!
Josh: Love your new handle. Also, would “hot egg-on-body action” involve Edith Massey at all? (Well, hypothetically, if she were still alive.)
I’ve misread “Minestrone Soup” on a chalkboard as “Mutilation Soup.”
Misreading “Hunan” as “Human” is really common. “Tampon Organizer” sounds like something sold late nights on cable TV. And, given the existence of bacon ice cream, I could easily see some yuppie type making clam chowder ice cream — and delicious clam chowder ice cream at that.
Improbable Joe is one of those people who veers back and forth between very insightful and a complete dumbass.
Carlie, those comments from Jennifer Forester are indeed good. I hope someone does direct her here — I’m not looking at any of the other comments to see if they have.
Crip Dyke, it’s fine, I’m not always good at parsing emotional content in comments directed at me.
J_A_L:
Instincts are to be trusted.
Also, agreed w/r/t Josh’s avatar.
Kerfluffle: I’d always found this place intimidating, too. I still do, to some extent. I could be a lot more scientifically literate — I did well in fairly rigorous classes in college, so I have no excuse. I also could be better at formal argumentation.
I haven’t been involved at all with RL atheism. It sounds like just about every other RL political group. “You’re being divisive” is something that oppressed people in Occupy hear a lot.
Louis: Oh, hell, yeah, there’s an awful lot of fuckery in pharma and psychiatry, and I agree with your pinpointing of the causes. I’m not comfortable with the comparison of delusions to Dunning Kruger, though, because people with DK by and large don’t suffer from it. The people around them do.
Chigau:
Does JT count? Or are we talking deity outside of one’s own mind?
Regarding EuroVision: OMG LOL.
Also, a friend of mine bought some all-purpose filler to do taxidermy with. The brand name is Crack Attack. If I were selling a product so named, I wouldn’t want my photo on the package, you know?
Yeah, I think TLC’s instincts are good here. It was typical of Gould to take every good idea way too far. In this case, he set up allometry as some kind of Ineluctable Law that Constrains Adaptation, when evidently it’s not. If kiwis benefited from laying smaller eggs, they would.
It’s funny that TLC used the phrase ‘just-so stories’ because Gould coined it to refer to unsupported adaptive hypotheses. Which is fine, but what he and his worshippers (*koff*Moran*koff*) never seem to get is that their own alternative, non-adaptive explanations are equally unsupported. They just convince themselves somehow that they’re more sciency or rigorous.
Of course not. All kinds of animals that CAN’T FLY are found on separate continents and islands; dispersal and vicariance happen.
However, it turns out that you’re right for the wrong reason; recent work in molecular phylogeny suggests strongly that flightlessness evolved three different times in the ratite/tinamou clade. link
Ms Daisy Cutter,
Well I agree it’s far from a good analogy, the only thing I was trying to draw attention to was the lack of insight. The DK-ers lack insight into their own incompetence, people experiencing serious delusional states lack insight into their delusional state. I wasn’t meaning to imply equivalent levels of harm or suffering. Far from it!
Louis
Daisy:
Isn’t that kind of the point?
Anyway, it’s 85° here and sticky. Our apartment is so hot that sitting out in the courtyard under the big umbrella is more comfortable than hanging out inside. Blerg.
Tomorrow’s high is 97°. *sob!*
Ms. Daisy Cutter, here is Edith Massey covering Big Girls Don’t Cry. Months ago when I first linked to it, Josh gave the biggest “Squeeeeeeee…” when I did that.
And, yes, I owned a copy of that that album. It came with a barf bag. The album amused me very much.
Ms. Daisy
Could he get any smaller? (note: NOT a penis joke.)
It’s really too bad y’all can’t hear my Edith Massey impression. Ms. Daisy Cutter, am I wrong that it’s positively uncanny?
*holding trowel on high*
I go to plant tomatoes!
Besides the obvious, that’s another reason I wish he had lived a lot longer – I read some of his stuff and think damn, I wish I knew what he’d think about it now that we have another decade or so of information about it.
ChasCPeterson: Why thank you, for clarifying a few things for me.
The thing about ratite dispersal is that I have a very hard time picturing Moas and Cassowaries rafting or island hopping, but of course ‘having a hard time picturing something’ is no kind of evidence. Thanks for the link too, though I confess it’s a little difficult to read given my education level and lack of sleep last night.
Josh:
Your list of unintentional misreading of product names reminded me of this product: Lick Me ’til Ice Cream.
Not really the same category, but I thought you’d appreciate it.
I also owned a copy of this album.
Here is one example.
I know, something is deeply wrong with me.
It Ain’t Me Babe
Not her finest moment.
So, this is kinda cute: “Husbands,” a web series about two rich, famous, white, gay guys who get drunk-married in Las Vegas and decide to go with it, because they don’t want make CA’s first gay divorce be like Britney’s 55-hour marriage.
It comes in 3-minute installments, so if you don’t like it, it’s not much time wasted. I think it’s funny, but there’s also something a bit off about it.
I wonder if he brought Opie along at any time.
Me too!
But fortunately, in this case, there’s a highly plausible alternative explanation:
vicariance
Gondwana
Heh. Jane Esperson is involved with the show. I guess I will have to check it out some time.
I love Golden Throats. I sent my daughter a copy when she was in high school close to 15 years ago, and she sent me back a letter thanking me more profusely than I’ve ever been thanked for anything. To return the favor, she sent me Pat Boone’s album covering heavy metal classics…
And we’ve been giving each other crappy music ever since. I think the worst thing I have is the London Symphony Orchestra covering the great hits by ABBA. It’s…worse than ABBA.
I’ve been collecting hilariously awful music since the 60’s. I’ve digitized it all. And whatever this thing is that’s so horribly wrong with us, it seems to be heritable.
Here’s one my daughter introduced me to:
Mrs. Miller–Girl From Ipanema
Enjoy.
Hot Egg On Body Action
There’s some anime fan convention out there called Fanime. I have to read that three times every time to get it to say the right word.
Wouldn’t surprise me, that seems to be a common name among that set of people. My uncle, in fact, married two odious Barbs. Not at the same time, but he did marry one of them a second time. I don’t know where either of them are these days. Dad’s side of the family isn’t a particularly open book.
I thought the vessel with the pestle was in the palace with the malice, or something like that.
Easy, she doesn’t know any gay people, and in fact could not even contemplate their existence within her insular self-reinforcing community.
feralboy12 – you’re not alone. There are several versions of Bad Music Hours on local public radio stations across the country. :)
Sorry I’m late…
It is my sincerest wish that this person dies a virgin.
This is from The TZT Zombie Thread and, considering one of hte current conversations here, I felt I had to crosspost.
Just read that as “plutonic ideal of breasts” and my first thought was, Isn’t that kinda intrusive?
Josh:
Your powers of mimicry are terrifying. Take that as you will.
Jessa, I LOL’ed at that product… and boggled at the sidebar ad for “Hot Guys in Pore Strips.”
Janine, I was gonna ask you whether you owned the “Golden Throats” albums. Those were… interesting. In the Minnesota meaning of “interesting.”
Feralboy, I’m glad you didn’t link to Eggchute.
(Nobody should google that, btw. Ever.)
Also, I’m not sure if this is bad music or just strange music, but I own a copy of A Rubber Band Christmas, which consists of xmas carols played entirely with office supplies.
I just gave JT my honest opinion. I wonder how he’ll react.
(From previous and current episode, in semi-random order)
Oh hell yes! Best. Episode. Ever.
====
Robin Williams: incredible in 1 Hour Photo. Jim Carrey: pretty good in The Truman Show and in Man on the Moon.
====
Giliell: Holy fuck! Best wishes for Mr. G!
====
ImaginesABeach: Holy fuck! Thanks technology!
====
<warning trigger=”pregnancy”>
I freaked out for a millisecond when #2 was born — suddenly there was one person more in the room! Didn’t have that with #1 (possibly because of the distress of the emergency C-section).
I may have told this before, but when my wife, while in pain and in labour from #2, exclaimed “You’d think all those years of evolution would’ve fixed this by now!”, a male nurse responded, “Yeah, that’s because it [evolution] is hogwash.” Seriously, WTF?
</warning>
====
Yeah, on second thought, you’re right. It’s not like Wolverine is coming out or something. It’s more like “who do we’ve got left to be gay?”
====
*Jumps up* Oooh! OOoh! Me too! Watching The Party was very difficult for me (and not because of Sellers’ blackface, I was too young to understand. Well, let’s just say I was young and I didn’t understand).
====
Cool! What do you drive?
In re: my first comment on this thread, perhaps the strychnine is going too far. Nevertheless, I would not in any circumstances lift a finger to help this woman, her pastor, or any member of their congregation, no matter how little effort it required on my part nor how great the need on theirs.
@ Skiptifem #96
I actually have seen people claim that the unabomber is the ultimate end of the voluntary simplicity movement, but only from the most rabid right wingers
@ imaginesabeach #119 I recall the time I was hit be a van while on my bike. As I flew through the air, by thoughts were “Oh shit, this is going to hurt soooo much in just a second.” After I landed, my thoughts were “Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow.” No gods involved.
@ happiestsadist 148
It’s my understanding that most of the things classified as “mental disorders’ are neurological, while psychological ‘all in the mind’ problems are considered personality disorders. I’m not a professional, though, so I could be wrong.
SQB:
My ’71 El Camino.
Caine: Cool, my dad has a yellow El Camino… ’72 I think though I’m probably wrong (what I know about vehicles could be scratched into my badly gnawed pinky fingernail) that was briefly in the background of a blink 182 video before he got it.
Geez, Caine, just when I thought you couldn’t get any cooler…
Things for which I am grateful:
1. That I know someone who drives an El Camino. Caine, what’s your elkie’s name? Maybe Francine and your Chevy should get together and make sweet, sweet iron love.
2. Brand-new tiny Lebanese bodega two blocks from my house. That sells frozen falafel (fry it yourself; it’s raw) that is the equal of anything I’ve had in a restaurant and far better than my own homemade. For three dollars a pound.
And stuffed grape leaves for $2.50 a pound.
And Turkish feta for $4 a pound. Oh. My. God. I’d clearly never had real feta before.
It’s going to be mezze for supper.
And they call me churlish. .
I guess the Northstar thing is being touted as the first superhero gay marriage, and I guess among the Big Two superhero universes, it might be, but as far as gay superheroes go, Apollo and the Midnighter from DC’s Wildstorm imprint have been out and married for years now. They may not be as famous as Marvel and DC heroes, but they’re very prominent in their fictional universe, and are obvious Superman and Batman analogues.
(yes I’m still talking about JT’s trainwreck)
TLC: thank you for dipping in. Posse, all that.
Y’all were praising Anne’s patience in the DCS thread? This response from her just makes me so terribly sad.
https://proxy.freethought.online/wwjtd/2012/05/26/want-to-keep-commenting-here-dont-derail-threads/#comment-62895
How long before Anna gets banned for derailing and using “insults”?
God damn that makes me so angry for Anna. I wish I could express support for her, but I’m a troublemaker and am banned for Not Helping.
And thanks so much to Carlie, Pterryx, Coyote, consciousness razor, and everyone else (I’m sorry if I forget your name) who threw in over there. This shit—not my personal bannination, the issue—matters and I’m very glad you’re arguing it so well and so forcefully.
TLC:
Cool. ‘Cept for the yellow…okay, that’s a personal thing. I’m not hot on yellow cars, especially muscle cars. Mine is a custom Teal. She’s benched at the moment, needs another radiator. Gotta be stock.
Sally:
*blushes* If you ever find yourself in ND, I’ll take you for a fast ride. ;)
Josh:
Oooh, baby. The Elky’s name is Catalaine.
Want me to mention it to her before the hammer falls on me, Josh?
Also if anyone knows Anna please give her my best.
Please, Coyote. That would have the added bonus of irritating JT.
Yeah, sometimes I sink to that level.
Give her an invite to this place.
I’ve given live birth twice and frankly, I thought being pregnant was awesome both times. I enjoyed it a hell of a lot better the second time around, natch, since I wasn’t 19 and stupid and depressed and just shotgun-married and clueless about relationships. And
morningall-day sickness wasn’t very much fun*. But still.I know there’s a cultural overdose of “zomg ~Motherhood~ is the most wanerful hazy pink soft-focus thing ~ever~ with nothing bad about it because it’s ~blessed~” though.
And I know I was privileged to have two relatively easy pregnancies.
*I really could have done without the
morningall-day sickness.Did that too, Janine.
I have boundless respect for Anna’s patience in both those threads. I’ve only dipped my toes in here and there, partly because I have trouble formulating thoughts that are somewhat coherent in their insultingness, and mostly because Josh or Daisy or Happiestsadist or one of the usual crew has said it already.
Re: Superheroes
I don’t recall ever seeing Apollo and Midnighter’s actual wedding in The Authority, they were already married when introduced. So Marvel might technically have the first same-sex wedding, but still, not that groundbreaking.
I wish we’d been friends the last time I was in that neck of the woods. Oh well. This is a big incentive to try it again!
Josh, I passed on your message to Anna. I’ve been adding a few comments of my own as I’ve been catching up. It is far worse than I thought it was. What Would JT Do? Act like an ass, apparently. It’s about as useful a guide to ethical behavior as the original WWJD? is.
How fucking blatantly obvious can it be, anyways? In the thread, a “zengaze” made an ‘analogy’ that involved him implying someone deserved to be raped because of their clothes, and the woman he was talking to specifically said how uncomfortable and skeezy it made her feel, and What Would JT Do? Apparently pat her on the head and reassure her it was just a bad analogy. Magical intent, I’m sure he didn’t MEAN to skeeve her out, right?
Thanks guys.
Yeah, also, I have to say I was distinctly unimpressed with Christina’s (NOT Greta, mind) original “I have Die Cis Scum Questions.” I mean, for fuck’s sake—she started JAQ’ing off right in the title. There is no excuse for that bullshit when Natalie Reed’s blog is right there next-door. One cannot possibly read Natalie without understanding exactly what she means to say and why. She’s an extraordinarily clear writer.
This is what comes to my mind when I think of Fast Car. Also, I have driven a car in over two decades.
Sally:
It’s more like What Wouldn’t JT Do or Say? I lost all respect for him some time ago and nothing he does (or says) surprises me anymore. He seems to be going for some sort of ‘Most Repulsive Person with the Density of a Black Hole’ award these days.
Just saw MIB3
Pretty good, but not nearly as much comedy as the first 2.
I see you’re an ingrate too, Caine. Wai so bitchie? JT’s an Ally. So is Stephanie-U-Hurt-Mai-Feelings-Cuz-U-Questioned-My-Self-Image Svan. Also Jason Thibeault. Eberhard even mock makes out with another straight dood!
Janine:
I love that song. I haz that CD.
I ♥ Tracy Chapman
Oh Lord, Katie Hartman’s over their bellyaching about me and how awful I am to be offended on some other group’s behalf (clue phone girl, I’m a non-threat at WWJTD now). Right after Anna disavowed the place for hosting fake-sincere questioners. Katie—I don’t think you’re reading for comprehension.
Northstar’s gayness isn’t a retcon, he’s been gay since his character’s conception in the early eighties iirc (open to correction). He was Marvel’s first openly gay character full-stop; so it’s nice that he finally gets the front page…! :)
Josh:
They aren’t this uppity queer’s allies. Even the thought of being shoulder to shoulder with the likes of those…:shudder:
No thanks. I’ll stick with my uppity ingrate friends.
Chimpy, one wingnut is using MIB3 as an argument for creation.
Warning, the link leads to a strange dimension.
The fucker also uses the ’69 Mets as an argument. Never mind that the team that year had incredible pitching.
Oh, ouch.
Also, it really chaps my uppity ass that JT is here at FTB. He’s way worse than having some moron doing this crap – he’s flat out pignorant. (My word for the willfully ignorant, obtuse and pig-headed among us.)
I know I don’t have to go there, and I don’t, however, given his recent spate of fucked up posts, I get the feeling he does this sort of shit, initially, for hits, then freaks out when people actually have strong fucking opinions about things. Pure pignorance, no matter which way you slice it.
Katie was one of them (for some reason I found her comments especially vile)
I know you warned me, but that was dumb as fuck
If there’s anything good I can say about this JT debacle, it seems more and more people are speaking up to give him the business.
I dunno if he’s reading right now or not, but he’s going to have a LOT to read either way.
TLC:
Assuming he’ll bother to at all.
I’m waiting for him to close the thread because
people are being mean to himit has been derailed.That’s kinda my goal, Beatrice. That, and bannination, in solidarity with Josh.
Don’t even…. As one of your self-appointed allies, I need you to give me a lesson in churlishness. Immediately. Consider that an order. ;)
Yes, Comrade!
Lesson:
1. Don’t discursively suck privileged dick on cue.
2. Object to the dick being stuck in places it shouldn’t be and demand it go back to its hidey-hole.
3. Refuse to stroke the dick every single time it tumesces before you, pointing out that it’s unreasonable for the dick to expect to be the center of attention all the time.
There. Now you’re churlish.
{Takes dick from mouth}
Wuh?
Louis
Anna here, thanks folks for your support.
Yes I can be accused at one point of sucking up for tone. I really do try and be civil till its proven that people dont genuinely want to be. I was giving JT and christina the benefit of the doubt and I really did want to give dialogue a chance.
I want the world to be a better place. I want to think cis people, at least some, are trying to learn even if they are morons about it.
Call me naive.
You guys were right I was wrong. There was very little sincerity there if any.
It depresses me though. Stuff like this makes me lose hope and that the only fuel I have left to run on.
Either way I apologize for thinking peoples tone was overly hostile. I was just to slow to realize that it wasnt a place of real debate.
*taking notes, looks down at them, confused by dick drawings*
Anna,
I am cis.
I am sincere in my desire to learn.
I am also a moron!
Louis
So my curiosity got the better of me and I just paged through “Don’t Derail My Dudebro Wank Session” now. JFC, fuck you, Zengage. Not only for the rape analogy that TLC’s mentioned — which JT defends! — but for this:
I also caught Cynthia’s comments, mentioned upthread. Yes, let’s police people for what they say on other blogs, where the standards are different! Not if they say anything oppressive, but if they say anything uncivil. What a sniveling little coward she is.
Beatrice, the comment from Katie that really appalled me was in the DCS thread. She concern-trolled that trans people expressing anger toward cis people might “cause” the cis people to harm them.
Christ, am I glad I got myself banned from that shitpile.
Josh, to Caine:
Ah, chromosexuality. Or is that autoeroticism?
Rey Fox, Dalillama, and Emrys, have you ever heard of Naked Justice? (extremely NSFW)
Janine:
♥ Tracy Chapman along with everybody else. I had “Talkin’ ‘Bout a Revolution” on the CD player one day last summer while I was at a stoplight, windows down. It got me a big smile from a woman crossing the street in front of me.
Rev. BDC, you didn’t hover over the hyperlink first? Wing Nut Daily is like that. All the time.
Welcome Anna, glad to see you here.
Anna, don’t lose hope! I know how easy it is to do (been there). But one of the most wonderful things about places like Pharyngula is how much waking-the-fuck-up we’re all doing to systemic and horrific oppression. And we’re not gonna shut up about it. People here got your back.
Hi, Anna. I didn’t see your comment above until I left a comment myself just now and the page refreshed.
No apologies are necessary. I’m sorry you had to put up with so much of that shit over there.
(Unrelatedly, I’m kind of amused that I posted the Naked Justice link at the same time everyone else was talking about dicks and dick drawings.)
Welcome, Anna. I don’t think you have anything to apologize for. Venting’s more than welcome here too. If anything, I wonder a lot if I should be more aggressive… but having lots of respondents with different tactics seems to work well in consciousness-raising, so far.
(*sorry I misspelled your name earlier, too. My apologies.)
Poor Improbable Joe. He’s vexed on account of the fact that he doesn’t like me cuz I’m Atheist RageBoy, but dammit, why couldn’t JT have banned me for something more justifiable? Intersecting ethical concerns are hard.
Yes. And notice how we all—-loudmouths and those with more patience—manage to participate together without constantly saying Ur Wai Iz Not Helping!A#@$QW#
completely off topic but lots of fun:
Scale of the Universe online flash game! (thanks to my chat friend)
http://www.bubblebox.com/play/adventure/20133301.htm
Oh, I LOVE such demonstrations of scale, Pterryx.
…Someone who wasn’t me linked to Naked Justice. BEST DAY EVAR…
@Anna
Some of us are genuinely trying to learn. Unfortunately, assholes often get really good at faking sincerity, because it helps keep people from realizing what assholes they are. Because of that, sometimes it comes down to a choice between letting the assholes get their licks vs. sometimes accidentally attacking the genuinely sincere. Speaking as the genuinely sincere, I’m perfectly willing to take a few undeserved licks here and there if it means that the assholes get smacked down faster. And if I do deserve the licks in question, then I’m definitely willing to take them; I want to know if I’m being an asshole so I can stop. That said, I admire the patience you displayed in those threads, in the face of stupendous provocation. It’s far beyond what I can muster, and I’m just a bystander in that discussion.
@Daisy
No I had not. That’s certainly something, though.
Hi all.
I ended up here because of some idiot’s childish whining about something Josh said here over at the JT extravaganza, and may I say, you all are fucking awesome.
Early this week I wrote a blog entry in my new blog about how I wanted to encourage debate and give people the benefit of the doubt. I was trying to live what I advocated.
I am seriously considering a revision…
I mean honestly what the fuck? I tell people I have been bloody well raped and beaten and they tell me to watch my tone. How far do they have there heads shoved up there asses.
It was all about them. “I dont want to be uncomfortable. Wah!” It must be nice to have that kind of life.
Ok I have vented. I feel better :)
I’ve finally read the threads at JT’s place, and it’s quite dismaying. The quote that stood out to me was this one, by JT:
Ally status is not the sole decision of one party. To make an analogy to friendship: I can’t say that I and another person are friends unless the other person agrees that we are friends. It’s a two-way street. I like to think of myself as an ally, but I would never make the leap to “I am an ally” without the agreement from the group with which I would like to ally. And I would not claim to be an ally while discounting criticism from members of those groups. I’m not sure why this concept is so difficult to understand.
Hey SkepticalMath! Welcome to TET!
Yeah. I really thought, at first, that assuming good intentions and being civil was the right path in that discussion. Should have known better.
But I don’t think you need to apologize at all.
Actually, the Argument from the ’69 Mets is one of the most difficult proofs of god’s existence to effectively refute.
And Hi Anna! This lurker at JT’s appreciated your awesome comments on those train-wreck threads. Welcome!
Hey skepticalmath! Do let us know if we live up to our reputations as the worst commenters evah. Lord, you’d think from all the crying at JT’s that we’d recreated ERV’s slimepit.
LATCH is the US equivalent, required in vehicles/restraints since model year 2002. The rigid/fixed system shows up occasionally, but most companies use IMMI components.
no, I didn’t. I’m distracted by thoughts of beer.
mmm. Beer.
Tonight’s menu:
Chicken breast marinated in olive oil, lemon juice, garlic, pureed red onion and jalapeno and a fuckton of fresh parsley. Cooked over the year’s first charcoal fire chez SpokesGay.
Homemade hummus
falafel
Yogurt tzatziki (homemade, naturally)
Rice-stuffed grape leaves
Pita. The good kind. The paper-thin non-puffy Lebanese kind.
They’re always sort of Schroedinger’s commenter. While they start digging themselves into oblivion, there’s always a slight and fading chance this one, maybe, might be one of the good ones…
Is this proof of God’s existence? And if so is it proof that god is a Mets fan or just a cruel bastard for taunting mets fans with a few WS championships between long periods of at best mediocrity?
I FEEL LIKE I’M TAKING CRAZY PILLS.
Rev: *shrug* motherfucker’s Ways are mysterious; you know that.
Jennifer, I would have told you how much I admired your comments, but, well, you know:)
Also re JT: what the hell is that do-rag about?
jenniferforester:
Welcome! I very much admired your comments on the train-wreck JT threads.
I mean, at the time, as a NJ 10-year-old Mets fanatic, my working hypothesis was that Tom Seaver was himself some sort of avatar or demigod.
But Swoboda’s Catch is not so easily explained.
@jenniferforester That thread made me want to take crazy pills, or at least take something interesting.
I am impressed your still going though.
That. is. AWESOME.
I’ve spent a solid 5 minutes just zooming down to something relatable like a beach ball or Rhode Island and then zooming slowly all the way out, wasting the visible universe zip by.
Der. “wasting” = “watching”, obviously.
Thanks. I started out as agnostic on the issue, but man, this is some weapons-grade fuckery over there. Also, they caught me on a good day; on a bad day I’m hair-trigger, and I think I’m going to bow out at this point because my patience is at about nil. I am genuinely sorry to anyone who has found themselves targeted on the thread for fuckery, or who has bowed out because of triggers.
I rarely do the commentariat thing anymore, not having much time, but it looked like that might end up bring productive. If I had realized that I was asplaining to someone who had earlier said that people who believed in privilege were sheeple or whatever idiot bullshit then I probably would have skipped it all. Ah, well. If I never speak again on here, just let me say that this is a fantastic commentariat and fucking high fives to all of you subversive ingrates.
And look who shows up at JT’s: John C. Welch of Slimepit fame. Birds of a feather.
Welcome, Anna and skepticalmath and jenniferforester! Poke around and see if you like the digs. Right here we have the endless thread, generally called TET, which is the lounge where we kick back and talk about anything that falls into/out of our heads. Generally we don’t specifically gripe about other blogs (it’s more like arguments about the goodness of peas, and who’s doing what on the weekend, and begging Ogvorbis for another fire story, or whatever), this one just kind of hit a bunch of us by surprise (and some in the gut) at once.
Elsewhere you’ll find TZT, the zombie thread, which was spun off as a fightin’ ring specifically for people who will just not.let.it.go, about creationism or whatnot, to keep them from taking over other threads.
Otherwise, there are posts about biology, and posts about religion, and other stuff, and all are there to dip into and out of at will. This is a link to the standards and practices of the blog.
Anna, I’m sorry for what you went through. You don’t have anything to be sorry for. It could just have easily turned out that they were all sincere and we were the ones jumping the gun, it just didn’t in this instance.
Josh, thanks for the comment. You’ll kick my ass if I ever veer from being an asset into inadvertently white knighting, right? Because I has ALL the privilege (well, except the male and thin ones, but pretty much all the rest), and I need to be put in my place when it’s required.
High five to you, Jennifer. Your comments were a sheer pleasure to read. Yeah, I think I have to leave that whole fiasco behind me soon.
@Josh #365: I myself wear a handkerchief upon my head sometimes. Not sure if JT’s motives can be discerned.
@Josh #357: Yeah, if it weren’t for all the other far more important reasons that that whole thing was stupid and obnoxious…like, seriously? Has he seen an actually unproductive comment flame war?
As long as you’ll do the same for me. :)) I fully expect to continue fucking up throughout my life.
Jessa, skepticalmath, jenniferforester, and Anna:
Glad to see you here. May this be a place of refuge-from-jerks, self expression, and “comradely good fellowship” (as the Sovs used to say; or at least as I understood them to say).
Josh, thanks for the conga rats.
I’m off to JT’s to read the train wrecks.
“Oh, don’t ask why…
No, don’t ask why.”
That was just off-handed curiousity. It strikes me as an odd fashion choice, but I’m not trying to read any motives into it. Forget I said it.
Josh,
Quoted for truth. All of the exact same issues were hashed out at length on Natalie’s blog a couple of months back – and Christina had Natalie herself posting at her eloquent best in the thread for a while.
Hear hear! Here’s to fucking up and getting better.
@Xanthe — yeah, there’s really no excuse, ever, to ignore Natalie Reed. Her blog is how I showed up on FTB in the first place, so I guess I’m biased, but to not look at her posts on the subject at all….really….?
Incidentally, thanks for the welcome, all. And thanks, carlie, for the orientation (#373). And PZ for not nesting comments, while I’m in a thanking mode :-)
Hi Anna! Thanks for doing your best over there. Your comment that a number of people over there were not engaging in good faith (and yet were not being called out by JT for it, because they were ‘civil’) – which was pretty much obvious from the start of the derail on the DCS thread, onwards – proverbially hit the nail on the head. (Reminds me I should check out your new blog post!)
Jenniferforester, thanks for your efforts as well, and for joining us over on TET to chill.
Ditto to the welcomes! Skepticalmath, Jennifer, Anna, here’s hoping to see you around plenty!
CripDyke, are the congrats about getting into law school or something else? I remember reading that but can’t recall if it was you and am too lazy right now to go back and find out. Whatever it is, congrats!
Cheers you all! I’ve had a great day of, err, cooking, gaming, and masturbating. Bout to top it off with some bike riding and drinking. I feel like such a lazy degenerate… and I love it!
Besides giving up on JT, I’m also not going to bother to go to physioprof’s blog again. I can take him being a Yankees fan. I can ignore his mouth-blistering recipes. However his cutsey-wootsey spellings of “fucke” and “shitte” are just too precious for me to take any more.
(still on about JT’s trainwreck)
If there was ever a test case of creating an UNsafe space, this is it. Slimepit denizens go where they’re allowed to disport themselves.
Anna! Skepticalmath! Jennifer! It’s awesome to see you here! Welcome, and thanks for trying to bring the sense-making over there. I mean, rawr, you are in teh meanie, churlish cannibal den. We eat you now! Or something.
Josh, that sounds delicious. The Mr. decided to bring home some stuff, and we had a black rice salad, coconut curry soup, fake chicken breasts in marsala sauce, gnocchi and a baguette with a wine-washed goat cheese. Mmmm. I like it when he’s feeling fancy.
Hi, Skepticalmath. Thanks, and welcome.
Hi, Jennifer! You rock. And… somebody really said “sheeple” over there?! Jesus. I’m not surprised they’ve started to draw the Slimepit regulars.
Pteryxx:
If we were still on Usenet I’d be yelling “.SIG!”
Josh:
/drool
Dressed rainbow trout’s on sale this week. I bought two of them, grilled them, and spent the better part of an hour separating out the flesh. I still probably didn’t find a lot of the bones and will have to look through the flesh again. Meanwhile kitteh hovered nearby, whining piteously. Tough luck, cat.
I’m thinking I’m going to bake the fish in a pie. There are tons of recipes online; I’m going to browse some of them and see what appeals to me. The only certainties are fresh parsley and thyme, which I just picked out back from the potted plants. Meanwhile, the scraps will be made into stock.
Josh, Churlish Ingrate #375
Sorry, Josh, but I’ve got that billet here. You’ll have to find something else to do.
at this point, I couldn’t give two fucks about JT, especially after the following addendum to the flirting thread:
as long as dude thinks the fight for social justice involves some sort of quid-pro-quo between the oppressed and the oppressor, he’ll remain of marginal utility as an ally.
I’m a bit more frustrated about Stephanie. She writes really well, understands social justice and intersectionality etc. is able to explain them very usefully most of the time (I believe Way Back When we assumed that the Lucid Congo posts were at least edited by her), but occasionally she just gets stuck in these entirely indefensible positions and refuses to realize it.
Ah well. I’ll just take those of her posts that are useful, instead of whining that she isn’t like that all the time.
Wow, Happiest. . .your Mr. is feeling fancy! That sounds like a hell of a spread.
Speaking of fake chicken breasts, if ever you come round here I’ll make you several versions of my seitan. It’s to die for.
About the third time I went there and read “dude is motherfucken fucke fucke” I’d seen enough.
Yes, yes, yes, to all of that Daze. Did you save some scraps raw? That’s best for court bullion. Next time you’re at the store ask for extra fish heads (I know, I know).
Fish pie should definitely have those herbs, and it should be done in phyllo dough, not ordinary pastry crust. That’s too heavy for the fish. Thin white sauce with just a splash of cream and a splash of quality white wine. Oh, and five fucktons of dill.
I feel the same way about Stephanie, Jadehawk. I think her major failing is her Defend My Friends meter is set all the way to 11. We all defend our friends, but there’s a time when they need to be reminded when they’re wrong. She’s unable to do that and she really, really turns on people because of it.
hi Anna.
there is some hope to be had, maybe (hopefully?) in the fact that on some of the more well-read blogs *coughpharyngulacough*, even if that JAQoffs aren’t listening, a lot of lurkers are. Every-so-often, you get a lurker here to come out of hiding and say that they’ve learned something and learned to understand a marginalized point of view a little bit better.
that’s the hope I cling to when arguing or explaining to obtuse and trollish comments.
You all know you love superfluous e’s and k’s.
Best approach to most things.
Josh: Yeah, when he’s feeling fancy in the kitchen, he tends to go all out. But then, so do I, I just tend toward one or two large components and he’ll do a lot of mostly simple ones. And he’s claimed all holiday feasts, though the desserts are up to me. Most of the time we get kinda lazy, though. Pasta. Mashed potato and grilled tofu with some veggie. Soup and bread. I like living with someone as fond of tasty food as I am, though.
I’d love to try your seitan (hail!), I’ve never made my own before.
Super easy and dirt cheap to boot. I make several different kinds. Some are a variation the Seitan O’ Greatness recipe. Google it. You’ll thank me.
Aw Josh, I’m honored. You bring the fire and brimstone, I’ll bring the cold rolled steel. *smoochies*
oh, hey, four potential new Pharyngulites. I haz an excited.
:-D
I adore seitan. I thought I didn’t like it, but then I got a job (prep/production cook) at an alternate/natural foods place and damn the stuff can be so good.
Also, many atheistic puns and subtexts.
Seitan is one of the few meat substitutes that isn’t awful.
Ah, I miss being able to visit Josh.
Bike riding time!
Jadehawk – excellent post!
ImaginesABeach – phew! Glad you are OK. You haven’t been posting here much, are you generally OK? Just busy?
I would like to officially congratulate everyone who has been banned at JT’s. It’s almost as good as a Molly. Take a bow, all, you are now entitled to use “WWJTB”* as a suffix to your nyms if you so choose. Which I imagine you probably won’t. (*Who would JT Ban?) Also, “churlish” is a good word. Almost in a class with “uppity”.
I haven’t read since last night, so I must go look for the new work over there. I’m excited that we seem to have lured in some awesome new people. Welcome, Anna, Jennifer, skepticalmath.
pf, Valerie Solanas was famous for some time as the extreme man-hater. She was also mentally ill (hey!) and she shot Andy Warhol. I think of “Die Cis Scum” as the trans equivalent to her SCUM manifesto. It wasn’t only anti-feminists who paid attention. Feminists in the 70s found her writing interesting. Not as a program of action, but as a howl of rage from the victimised – “I’m not fucking taking this shit any more! I will fucking CUT you!” It’s amazing how powerful that is when your whole life has been about shutting up and looking pretty.
Thinking about allies, I wonder if the term is not doing extra duty. I don’t think of allies as also being friends and 100% supporters, but in a more narrow strategic sense. JT could well be an ally in the civil rights aspect of the GLBTIQ* and feminist battles, but he’s obviously an enemy in other aspects. Just like many of the historical abolitionists considered black people to be inferior to white, but nevertheless deserving of such basic human dignity and rights as not to be enslaved.
I keep meaning to try, but I shall now take up the challenge, and the neighbours will hopefully be less weird about sharing the communal BBQs with us if it looks like meat. (I seriously don’t care if your steak is at the opposite end of the grill to ours, and wouldn’t have offered to share if I did.)
Hello and Welcome to Anna, SkepticalMath & Jennifer! You all rock, hard. Never, ever feel bad about fighting the good fight. It’s what we do. Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
I don’t normally post about things culinary, but I hickory smoked ~2lbs of home grown jalapeño peppers, ground them to a fine powder which I’ve steeped in about a cup of vinegar. The result is sinus clearing. And that’s before tasting.
I have no idea now what to do with this wonderful stuff.
Also, I am fermenting a Tabasco pepper purée. We’ll see about that.
Oh and for those who missed it, a link to a fantastic post found by Jadehawk: http://www.socialjusticeleague.net/2012/04/the-revolution-will-not-be-polite-the-issue-of-nice-versus-good/
Just want to add my voice in the pile that has learned an incredible amount from watching the commenters here at FtB in the year I’ve lurked, and especially here at Pharyngula. I knew pretty much nothing about privilege and feminism, but reading comments and following links has educated me tremendously. Not that that’s the only thing I’ve learned here, I’ve learned much about my atheism, but it is one of the most influential.
So thank you all for taking the time to explain things to the trolls for the lurker’s benefit, it really has helped me recognize issues I didn’t know existed, and gotten me to a position where I am driven to attempt some kind of activism. Though the combination of location(Tennessee) and a general dislike of being around large groups of people strive to prevent it.
So yes, there are those helped by the comments here, so once again, thanks.
Darn it, threadrupt again. I’ve been trying to get through this thread all day (with numerous interruptions and duty calling etc).
WHile I don’t think that repulsive woman deserved AC’s polite handling, I also agree with this poster (I’m sorry – I copied this hours ago and forget who posted this) that in the current climate, anything positive he could have done by being more confrontational would have been drowned out by the hue and cry of “mean liberal media!/XIan persecution!”.
Someone else posted about this disgusting person’s “disdain” for Cooper and the interview and I agree completely. She was contemptuous – it was as clear as day that she fiercely resented the fact that anyone could even question the righteousness of her pastor. I felt not just disdain, but rising red hot anger toward the end of the interview. One step further and she was going to burst out with, “Look, my pastor and I are not wrong- THOSE HOMOSEXUALS are wrong! And yes, I’ll just say it – they do deserve to die! How dare you make me feel uncomfortable? It is XIans who are the vicitms here”
I found that very definite sense of righteous fury really chilling. It was a real time demonstration of how utterly devoid of human empathy or compassion Bible believers truly can be. Usually we only hear it in terms of ancient stories (“Sure, the Canaanites were massacred, but they deserved it! They refused to worship Yahweh alone!”) – somehow, that cold indifference to genocide doesn’t seem really real – especially when it is in reference to fictitious events. I had almost convinced myself that Xians pay lip service to the Biblical horros being “righteous” but if they were ever really faced with a situation in present time, they would recoil in horror and perhaps claim that “this is different”. But when you see a ghastly display like that interview, it all comes rushing up to the present, real and terrifyingly ruthless indifference to the humanity of others. It’s not just for the Babble stories. These people truly relate to this hate.
I missed the entire JT thing and a good thing too, I gather. I had considered putting his blog in my blog link list – especially because I probably get some high school and college visitors through my offspring, so I try to write posts which might be of interest to them and a student group connection could have been really useful – but something made me hold off. I am glad now that I did hold off.
I’d like to second MissELy and pf. I am an infrequent poster (only because I am just too damn slow!) but a daily reader, and the Pharyngula coomentariat regularly makes me laugh, think and feel a little less alone.
I’ve told my friends that if they respect me they’ll be the Brutus to my Caeser and be willing to “betray” me if I ever go off the rails.
Sally, I miss you too honey.
Happiest—I’m spoiled living in a neighborhood where vegetarianism isn’t considered an Insult to Meat Eaters. I just don’t get it. There’s shit tons of fabulous veggie food and I’m perfectly happy to attend an all-veggie or vegan cookout, even though I eat meat (much less than before, of course). Restricting how much meat you eat also forces you to discover cuisine from around the world, much of which has been developed into an art form of utter fucking delish-itude.
Also Honeymoon stuff == missed JT stuff apparently. Is it worth looking in to or should I just smile my pretty face and move on?
Hallo & Welcome, Codobus. Thank you for taking the time to speak up. It helps us all so much to hear from people like you from time to time. More than you know. :)
P.S> Oh Audley! I hope you do continue your update on the progress of you and Darkfetus. I really enjoy them – I had easy pregnancies (and enjoyed most of it, but there is a lot that is NOT fun – and you are so right; that is not something a woman is permitted to admit without attracting plenty of negative attention, criticism and slapdown. :() But shag ’em. They are not having this experience, YOU ARE! But please keep sharing!
Ing: re JT, a few folks have linked to sample comments here. There’re 360-some nested comments now, just so you know. Depends on your tolerance for self-declared ally shenanigans, IMHO.
I always say be the George to my Lenny, but the idea is the same.
Hi, codobus! Pull up a chair and have a beverage of your choice.
Amen to that. I think part of my grumpiness over there is because of simply trying to follow the damn comments. Nests only work when you want to have one tiny side conversation and not participate in anything else anybody is saying, and it makes it almost impossible to pull together common themes in different side conversations. And entirely impossible to see what’s happened since the last time you refreshed.
You know, that might just be it. I don’t think I’ve ever seen her be self-defensive like that on her own blog, but only for other people on theirs.
I now picture us on horseback, you with a “Feminist ally YEAH” crest and me with a “Motley Queer Groupie” crest, riding out and promptly bumping into each other and falling off our horses.
Ing – sit this one out, you’re on your honeymoon! You can always read it some other time.
Ing, it’s one big ugly fail fuckpile. While I’d desperately love to see you tear some shit up I can’t, in good conscience, fail to mention that it’s a real downer. Def. not honeymoon-grade.
Josh: It’s much better here in TO as far as veggie options go. Where I came from had two veggie restaurants in the province, neither where I was. We’re pretty spoiled for choice here. I’ve also noticed less being insulted by our herbivorous tendencies and more worry about insult. Like people asking if it was okay if they ordered meat while we were all at an omnivorous restaurant, and the grill thing. And when it’s us, with the leather bags and shoes, and the whale, skunk, and squirrel skulls in the living room, it just seems weird to have someone so cautious. That said, vegan lube is easy to find here. FUCKING YAY. Glycerin is evil in places.
Carlie:
Geez, did I miss the wedding? Yikes. Ing, if you’re on your Honeymoon, not just planning stuff, get the eff off the net – you oughta be, um, busy…
Josh, a/k/a Lord Seitan: I don’t have phyllo. I picked up regular crust at the supermarket. I’m going to give it a shot with that, as I don’t really want to go back to the store this weekend. I don’t think I have any dill, either, but I’m not terribly crazy about it anyway. The fresh thyme, plus rosemary if I decide to add some, should be strong enough. I do have some cream and some white wine.
I did save the fish heads raw. I couldn’t cut off the tail or fins, but they didn’t cook much at all on the (stovetop) grill anyway.
Alethea, “WWJTB” gave me a good, hearty lol. Thanks. As for redefining “ally,” I think that for your second definition we should instead revive the term “bedfellow,” as in the aphorism “Politics makes strange bedfellows.”
Hi, Codobus. And thanks.
Ing: What Carlie and Josh said. Why spoil your honeymoon?
Carlie, Stephanie was certainly self-defensive on her own blog in the wake of the Obama announcement.
Wow. I go away from FtB for a few days (expecting company tomorrow and needed to give the place a [ahem 4 years-since-the-last-time-it-was-done-properly] spring cleaning) and the thing’s gone off in a ditch. I couldn’t bear to read much of the mess over at WWJTD, but what I did read caused me to wince. Now, for the most part, I’ve kinda liked JT’s blog up till now so for me this is just grade A WTFery. I don’t get how someone who’s usually spot on can be so dense. Christina? Well, she’s not impressed me very much in the past, so her failure is a little less troublesome for me to grasp. Maybe I shouldn’t be fazed. After all, he’s just joining the Club of Disappointments.* Anyway, I hope that, as Pteryxx (I think that’s who it was) predicts, he’ll figure out he’s made a mistake (or two) then doubled down. Twice (or more).
*Members include, but are not limited to Richard Dawkins, Hemant Mehta, Jason Thibeault, and Greg Laden. PZ himself has even had a guest pass on one or two occasions.
—
Moving on: I spent the day on my feet making bagels (two batches of plain, one of cinnamon raisin), and yes, not doing the last of the cleaning. Tomorrow I have to go grocery shopping too so not a lot of time left. So what the hell am I doing on TET? Just needed to drop in and say hi. Maybe I’ll just cover up the remaining mess and wait until my aunts leave next weekend to finish up. What do you think?
OMG, look at all of the new people! Hello, new people!
*waves at refugees!*
General question for the Horde: Does citronella actually work to repel bugs? I bought new candles today and holy shit, I am still being eaten alive (literally!) by goddamn fucking mosquitoes.
kristinc,
Oh, I think it’s awesome that you enjoyed your pregnancies, it’s the zomgMOTHERHOOD bullshit that irritates the crap out of me. But it sounds like you and I are totes on the same page with that. :)
nifty,
Never fear! I will continue with updates (especially since now I feel like you all have my back!). In fact, I’ve got a biggie coming up in just over two weeks– the “anatomy ultasound”. I’ll find out Darkfetus’ sex! Eeeee!
Also, you mentioned a parenting book a few weeks back, but I can’t remember the title and I was going to order it this weekend. :-/
Ing! Felicitations on your nuptials (the 19th, do I remember correctly?)
Josh — is it too late for me to fly across the country to join you for that mouthwatering repast? NOM!!!
Antiochus Epiphanes, I take my hat off to you – I’ve tried four times to grow peppers. No luck. :(
Nerd, sending a (hug) for you and the Redhead if you don’t object. Though I don’t often post, I always read and I watch for your updates.
T’is–OT question: your sailboat avatar. Do you sail?
I tend to limit my activities to Pharyngula. Part of it is that I don’t know the internal rules of other blogs. Part of it is that, when I have stepped outside of my comfort zone, I have either been immediately attacked as one of PZ’s minions (ERV slimepit) or have discovered that my mode of discourse, though people here seem to grok my meaning, does not always translate well and I have been involved with some serious misunderstandings with regulars (Ed Brayton’s blog). And part of it is that this is one of the few places on line in which I feel that I am welcome as I am rather than having to guard my impulses (and that included my old blog!). So I ain’t gonna go get banned because it would not feel comfortable to me.
I guess I’m just a wimp.
The weird thing is, though, this place has challenged me far more than any other community with which I have been involved — virtual or meat. And, as I stated over on the Abby thread, this place showed me just what a cesspool really is. And I was horrified to see myself looking out of it.
So, thanks, all.
Also, now I have read more of that trainwreck, (*HATE NESTED COMMENTS*) I am gobsmackingly shocked at JT defending the rape “analogy”/”joke”. WHAT THE FUCK DUDE?
I’ve said so over there, and then I ruined my flounce by putting the wrong link in and having to reply to myself. Fuck fuck fuckity fuck, I look like a complete dork now.
Relevant linky:
http://fuckyeahdisingenuousliberal.tumblr.com/post/20119130397
Audley: I think you need to dump the citronella directly on the Mosquitos. Also, autocorrect really wants me to capitalize Mosquitos really bad. I’m tired of fighting it.
Ibis3: Yeah, it was me who made a (wild-assed guess) prediction that JT might come around over the next few months. My completely unscientific guess, based on the sheer level of resistance and education attempts, would be about a 15% chance. I’d say by the first anniversary of the Elevator Incident, but I think that’s coming up too quickly.
Not that I’m an expert on cluebat conversion, but I have done fairly well predicting the NFL playoffs and the Stanley Cup over the last many years. >_>
More of a meta question that’s been bubbling up in my head: why is it that so many people have a hair-trigger “you’re an asshole Pharyngulite” response? First off, I don’t know if any of us (or very few, at least) comment here exclusively. Even the ones who were around long before FTB commented at several scienceblogs and several other blogs that got eventually put in the FTB collective, and other blogs entirely that are kind of FTB-adjacent and have a lot of overlap (I’m super-excited that Zuska is back writing!). So I’m not sure why some of us are being defined solely as entities being spawned from the bowels of Pharyngula.
And then if so, so what? I really don’t get the interpretation of how we’re impolite and uncivil here. And I know from polite civil niceties. I grew up as the quintessential good girl who charmed all the adults and always did everything right and whose friends’ parents told them I should be more like. And I just don’t see it. Yes, there are lots of insults, but they’re all in context. And mostly metaphorical. And the kinds of insults that really hurt groups of people are not tolerated. And even when people are being ripped apart for their bad logic, it’s often expressed with sadness because really, it’s disappointing and it would have been so much nicer if they could just argue well.
I’m just not sure why we’re so vilified right off the bat by some people.
Audley @ 423– I’ve noticed that citronella candles don’t work that well, but citronella incense seems to be more effective. Check w/ your doctor re: citronella lotions/soaps/etc as it is an essential oil and EO’s can cause problems w/ pregnancy. (Things learned from CP soapmaking. :P)
Audley 423 – It’s Your Baby and Child by Penelope Leach. Really an excellent book – so down to earth and so thorough about the things you really need to know as a new parent. I looked at the newest edition at B&N this week and it is updated and even better (photos even better too). I honestly think you would enjoy this book.
Ing: Congrats on your wedding/honey moon
Ms. Daisy Cutter,
I like fellow-traveler as a description for allies of convenience who you work with only because you coincidentally share one or a few political goals.
@Audley, I don’t know if you looked at the link I gave before – it’s funny/real baby stories told in a way that I think would appeal to pharyngulites.
One of Jeff’s points somewhere is that you should not buy A parenting book. You should buy many parenting books. If they all agree on something, it’s probably right and you should pay attention. If they disagree or only one ever mentions it, do whatever the hell feels best to you and don’t fret about it. (Vaccines excepted. Ignore the cranks and vaccinate. As I’m sure you will.)
Alethea, that was fucking perfect.
Well, there goes the rest of my night.
Audley:
Here in Manitoba, mosquito capital of North America, I’ve never found citronella candles or anything like them to be at all effective. It’s 30% DEET slathered on every visible inch of my skin for me, and a mosquito jacket when necessary.
That said, I think citronella (or citrosa? If they’re not the same thing then I get them confused) might be a little more effective when applied to the skin. We can’t put DEET on our dogs, but we’ve had success with putting a citronella solution on their heads. For the humans, we go straight to the nuclear option. I’ve been known to use 98% DEET when I can get it. Sure, it’s bad for me, but so’s West Nile Virus.
You’re welcome anytime, but get your ass here soon cuz a faggot is hungry.
I love the Fuck Yea, Disingenuous Liberal tumblr
From link
Holy crap, that rings so true to me. I have been so messed up by this despite it happening again and again!
Thanks, Althea H. Claw, for the link to Fuck Yeah, Disingenuous Liberal. That’s brilliant.
Hallo, Ibis! Good to see you. As someone who has been Spring cleaning for the last week and half and still isn’t done, I say the hell with it, cover it up, toss it in a closet, whatever.
All this talk about transgender – anyone know where Cerberus is and how she’s doing?
I think I’m going to have to get me a tumblr.
I’m (virtually) there! Here’s some wine, O chefly one! Cheers! (pouring crisp, fresh with a hint of sassy into USB)
Jadehawk – I just read your blogpost. It was excellent! Your point about the buttons is well taken. Kind of makes a concrete analogy to the whole “women had better be responsible for preventing harrassment”.
Ing:
Given my upbringing and all, I’ve always been a suspicious bastard and there are times I don’t like that aspect of myself, however, over my lifetime so far, it’s paid off to be a suspicious bastard.
Dalillama, “fellow-traveler” was a dogwhistle for “Communist” back in the day. But maybe it can be rehabilitated.
Also, I didn’t get around to mentioning it, but I dug out a patch, built a few raised mounds of loam and Garden-Tone, and planted four heirloom tomatoes on Friday. So far they seem to be happily thriving. The sweet-pepper plant I bought is doing OK, though not growing apace the way the tomatoes are.
I should probably pick up some pyrethrum and neem oil when I get a chance so that I have them on hand for when the bugs set in. Someone else suggested using a mist of garlic and lemon juice solution on the fruit and leaves, because the acid deters bugs but doesn’t poison the plant. Anyone had any luck with that? Also, has anyone here tried foliar-feeding their tomatoes?
I ♥♥ you Ogvorbis.
and
Welcome to all the recent refugees!
grog is on the bar
spanking couch is over in the corner
the queueueuea for sehks with Brownian and Louis is everywhere.
(that covers about 1/10 of the in-jokes)
Caine, Cerberus has been a contributor at Sadly, No! for a while now. Since that blog rolls with some language that is frowned upon here, it might be a little jarring to read her posts, but her writing is still excellent, as is her deconstruction of wingnut propaganda.
Hey Wowbagger, it’s fine to just call me Alethea. But not Althea kthx.
Gah, proofread fail. Apologies.
OH FFS, Animal Planet: MERMAIDS
http://press.discovery.com/ekits/monster-week-mermaids/press-release.html
Partner is convinced they’re trying to pass this off as a real documentary. Which they seem to be correct as i had to look up online to find a concession that they’re making everything up.
Bike ride! omg, it’s almost like being in a city! People of color everywhere! Folks bumping loud songs out the windows of their cheap-ass rides with the spinning rims. Cheap pizza, bad beer. Pausing sweatily at red lights, spinning my pedal back while I wait and hope I don’t get harassed for being a chick on a bike in a skirt at night.
Got some cheap drinks, gonna watch me some Dr. Who!
Jessa @352,
I think JT is confusing the fact that people recognize him at conferences and may want their photo taken with him, with somehow being an automatic ally of feminists and defender of women’s honor. I find it very telling and rather amusing that he declares his ally status by fiat.
It’s very poor visibility here in Dalian, I hope my plane to Beijing can take off in this soup.
Dang, gone for a few hours, and almost threadrupt…
Janine, I think both ‘Tis and I learned how to shut the fuck up and listen. Except when I need to don the tutu and steel toed troll stomping slippers for trolls not listening to privilege they spout…
Louis, I work as a process chemist downstream from your efforts.
The local weather report dictated that project seared porterhouse will be carried out Tuesday. (Yay, Monday nap still penciled in.) Now to work on the logistics…
Mermaids. Jesus Fuck Me Christ:
Which is followed by:
KILL. ALL. HUMANS.
Oh Christ, I overlooked this:
What’s next, Lynn Margulis?
And also because We Should Not Be Mean To People Who Are Being Nice. If someone is being nice to you and you are short or abrupt or defensive with them, it’s you who have brought badness into the situation. Not (of course!) the person who was being nice to deliberately lure you. Oh no.
Which is to say, most people except real cranks would agree that it’s fine to be Mean to someone after they’ve been Mean to you. But those same most people, when pressed, would probably reveal an ingrained belief that being Mean to someone before they’ve committed Meanness would be bad, even if you’re pretty positive they have harmful intent.
I will catch up, I will catch up….
–
Oh, Giliell! *hugs/boozes/chocolates/bacons/kittehs*
Best wishes for your husband; you can share the *h/b/c/b/k* with him, if you want.
(Well, maybe not the *hugs*. After all, I haven’t even “met” him.)
Later:
Hurrah!
–
Katherine, is there some reason why you must have lunch with Clueless Collegue?
–
O.O
Keelhaulin’s too good fer ‘im. Throw ‘im to the peas. ‘N’ after the peas have done their evil worst, feed the peas to the Horses!
–
I think that The Truman Show is best best thing (that he’s acted in, that I’ve seen) that Jim Carrey’s done.
The only thing of Will Ferrell’s that I’ve seen and liked was Stranger Than Fiction.
Mind you, I like a lot of unabashed dairy product in my comedy (and I unabashedly like some dairy product in a lot of my comedy); it’s just that these guys just don’t do it for me.
–
Congrats and *confetti*!
–
So incredibly Yes!
–
I’ve finally caught up with the thread. But since I’m going to be doing some serious sailboat racing in the morning, I bid you all a good night.
Josh @ 8:
Can’t tell if that was intentional or not, but either way, I’m so stealing it for the next time I’m forced to describe JAQing off. :D
Any particular reason to believe it’s the same person? I took a quick look but could discern little similarity in content or style.
Caine I’ve been hard at it for about a week. Sorting through accumulated junk, vacuuming ceilings, wiping walls, washing light fixtures and windows, doing floors on hands and knees. Even so, my 70 (almost) year old mother (with Grave’s disease no less) has outdone me.
Two of her sisters are coming to stay with us for four or five days since my cousin is getting married on Friday. This is the daughter of another aunt who is suffering from early-onset dementia (she’s only in her mid-fifties), so it is not out of the question that this the last time all the siblings will get together (at least with sister number five understanding enough of what’s going on to make it a pleasant gathering). It’s been rather tough getting to this point–going shopping for a suitable dress for the mother of the bride and having her come to try it on for several fittings as my mother had to do some alterations. Then getting outfits together for both mum and me, then the spate of housework. Meanwhile, we had a showerhead to replace one day, the pool coming down in the backyard another, and a fly problem (we still can’t figure out how they’re getting in–and they are getting in somehow; no dead thing in the walls could have lasted so long). It will be quite a relief when this is all behind us. Anyway, that’s why I haven’t been around so much for a while. Whew.
I really wanted to put a bigger print of this piece on an empty patch of my bedroom wall, but the artists seems to have left the building. *sigh*
If anyone has suggestions for something with a similar “feel” I would love to hear them. What made this piece perfect for the spot was that it’s relatively bold (it would mostly get viewed from 6+ feet away), contemporary, and simple in color scheme. I don’t match my art colors to my decor exactly, but I have cool “vintage modern” colors like gray/yellow/mint/kelly green in this room. I was looking for a print between 8×11 and 14×20.
Correct me if wrong but I was taught in classes that Aquatic Ape is flimsy at best
MissEla:
Gracias!
I never even though of actually putting citronella on my skin– I’m not really one to just slather lotion on.
(Really, ask me when the last time I wore sunscreen was.)
nifty:
Thank you!
Alethea:
I just started reading it and I already love it. To wit:
:D :D :D
Nutmeg:
Okay, it’s not that bad here. :)
I just want something that will work while I’m sitting out on my deck, but I don’t want to have to hose myself down every time I go inside if I use it, you know?
Also: DEET + Darkfetus = ???
Aren’t you Commodore or some such title? I bet you will win…aren’t interpretable rules nice?
I think the Truman Show was so overhyped that I couldn’t help but feel underwhelmed with it all. I don’t hear muc about it these days either, so I assume that it didn’t age well. Eternal Sunshine is a better performance by Carrey, he really checks his ego at the door in that one.
cicely:
Thanks!
Daisy, thanks.
Ibis, oy, what a lot of work! Stressful. I hope you get the “let’s enjoy this!” part soon.
Audley–maybe get yourself a bug house for your deck?? I mean, like, one of those big screen tent things.
I seem to recall her coming around to announce that she’d be commenting less at Pharyngula now that she was a contributor at Sadly, No!
It so was.
*How to get good nights sleep. First check bedroom, computer room, and outside temperature and expected low. Factor in socks, tee-shirts (or lack thereof), sleeping on top of the covers versus under the covers, and with recent effects of BP meds. Then crawl into corner and mewls as a decision can’t be reached*
Sally:
We’ve been looking, but haven’t been able to find one that’s small enough. (The space we have to work with is about 7’X7’6″. The smallest screen tent we’ve seen so far is 10’X10′.)
:( :( :(
*sigh* I know, I just want an impossible solution to the mosquito problem. I want all of the bats that live around here to heed my call and spend all night just chowing down on the bugs in my immediate vicinity.
One can do a lot with PVC and fabric. You have a sewing machine, right? I wouldn’t mind coming over to help out.
AH HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHA!
Sewing machine.
Sorry, Sally. :p
No sewing machine, plus I’m fundamentally lazy. Maybe one of these days, I’ll take you up on the offer! :)
What, you don’t have one? I just kind of assumed that everyone but me has one.
I think my mom has two.
@ Ing #465
IIRC, the AA hypothesis is basically “Look! Human can swim and other primates can’t! There must be a reason we evolved to do that!” As I understand it, the traits that let us swim well (buoyancy, hairlessness, breathing control, limb arrangement) are all traits that are adaptive for plains-dwelling endurance predators (Large lungs, lots of area to dump heat through with sweat, breathing control, limb arrangement), and the swimming is just a handy byproduct.
Oh, two fundamentally lazy people trying to solve a problem? What could possibly go wrong? :DD
Audley and pregnancy in general, add me to the people who love reading your updates. ALso, pregnancy and parenting books suck, and I knew that, but I still couldn’t stay away. *shameface*
Also, the intestinal movement = pregnancy panic thing happens to me regularly, too. It always makes me LOL that the most preshus, wonderful, fulfilling thing, a woman’s highest purpose, the magic of life moving in you, all that BS… feels exactly like your next BM moving through your intestines.
birgerjohansson Yay, I love Zuska! Thanks for the info.
Josh and Ms. Daisy I <3 you guise. For realz.
It's 4:52 am here, and it's been almost a week that I can't sleep :(. I am lurking but I'm really fragile right now, which is why I'm scarce (but then, what else is new?)
Just wanted to say that I appreciate Pharyngula's community. This is the place I feel the safest in the world.
Huh. I’m still picking over the wreckage of the DCS thread, and I don’t want to even look at the remains I can see in the distance of another train wreck derailed further along the same rail line. I don’t think I want to know. But, for my trouble in pointing out her monumental selfishness in taking Anna’s arguments and centering the response about her reaction, Katie Hartman thinks I’m a Poe. That’s really special. I think the best response there is no response at all. Moving on…
On Animal Planet and mermaids:
I am not surprised they would do something like that. Educational channels like the Discovery Network has been going downhill for over a decade, now pandering to the lowest common denominator. Discovery channel was something I used to watch to learn science and stuff about the world. Now it is just a collection of stupid reality shows.
Sally:
Beers on the porch. :D
Gen:
Thanks!
I totally get the BM feeling– Darkfetus’ movements have felt a little like being gassy, so I can’t only imagine what it will feel like when DF gets a little bigger! XD
Lol, I love the new nym too, Josh – wear it with pride! Now I’mma have to change mine. Suggestions, ideas from Teh Horde?
Having grown up with a strong dose of that BS, as my mom was a midwife’s assistant and really romanticized it for a while, and had a copy of the original printing of Spiritual Midwifery, complete with full-color painting of hippie lady giving birth in her VW van to a rainbow-haloed infant, I’m really glad I avoided pregnancy until after I got over that shit. I may never spawn, but if I do, at least I don’t have any unrealistic expectations about it. And, frankly, riding my bike slightly buzzed through the summer night made me feel like spawnless existence is pretty fucking bearable.
Went half and half. Finished sorting crap on top of old storage dresser (technically a dresser, but acting as a file cabinet and junk collector) and will wash it down tomorrow morning. Will then throw some kind of fabric curtain over messy caddy full of books and papers and stuff. I’m utterly fagged and have a big day tomorrow. The grocery list is three times as long as normal. At least my sister is going to do the honours of going to pick the aunts up at Pearson Airport and driving back during rush hour.
I hope the pleasantness comes soon too. Not sure exactly how it will work out since I’m displacing myself from my bedroom and going to sleep at my sister’s. My brother in law is a bit of an ass and never misses an opportunity to make snarky comments.
One thing I am planning to do is to film some video of my aunts and mum and ask them all sorts of questions about their childhood. If anyone has some good questions to ask a bunch of ladies approaching and just past 70, I’d be keen to hear them. Makes note to make sure there enough batteries to run my camera for a number of hours.
warning, pregnancy/baby stuff
for absolutely no conceivable reason (other than feeling too lazy to work), I started reading the preview of that on Amazon.
apparently newborns exude a lot of diverse slimy stuff from various orifices
Childbirth details!
Sally:
A yup. My mom wasn’t as, uh, dedicated as your mom, but she’s still all about the mysterious joys of pregnancy and childbirth. But, you know, my mom’s all about the woo.
Which is why I don’t talk to her about the decisions that I’ve made so far, ‘cos all of them are going to be wrong. And that’s okay, she is most certainly entitled to feel however she wants after squeezing out four kids sans any sort of painkillers, but she can stay the hell out of my business.
Goddamn right. And the sooner she learns that the better. Otherwise she’s gonna be all up in your shit with her anti-wheat-vax-chemical-plastic-chemical woo.
Count me as another who is disappointed with JT.
Josh:
Bear in mind, she gave me Buddhism for Mothers* not long after I told her I was pregnant– that totally solidified my decision to keep her out of the loop.
*Or some shit like that. I’d check the title, but I can’t even remember where I put the damned thing.
Audley, I love ya. For rilz. But your mom—like Pickles—is bullshit.
Love,
Me
Honestly, I think that going to nursing school and actually working in the OB/GYN and then in the ER cured my mom of a lot of that romanticism. Or maybe I just picked it up from the books. Because she seems pretty over it these days.
However, she is still massively accomodationist. She gave me Haidt’s book to read, and then she said she believes in spirituality stuff, and got really really mad when I used the word “hoo-ha” in conjunction with “spirituality.” Said I was being disrespectful and shit. To me, we were having a nice, spirited discussion.
But then, I’ve always been the “angry” one in my family, which is composed of buttoned-down New England puritans and Scandinavian Lutherans.
Fucking zengaze. I can’t go back to that thread. There’s no point. I’m not going to get anything useful done tonight.
NASCAR…I’m vaguely aware that there was a driver named Dale Earnhart(sp?), who was apparently very well thought of.
–
Beware! That is neither humorousness of nature nor a need for better ventilation, that is the dreaded Kitteh Belleh Trap; you touch it and it goes off like a floor-mine, all sharpened appendages and teeth, and reduces your hand (and a certain length of arm) to bloody gobbets. Don’t be fooled!
–
–
Ha! New Thread!
Onward!
–
Yes. It’s her Xianity that has all that eye-for-an-eye stuff.
–
Now if only she’d think about what that says about those words, and what that says about those opinions….
–
MissEla, welcome in, lurking or not. :)
–
And welcome in to pf, too!
–
ImaginesABeach: *hug!*
I’m so glad you weren’t hurt!
–
Audley, it’s like you’re picking up my thoughts, only 27 years out of sych!
:)
And I like the Darkfetus Updates.
–
And it is, yet again, A Day.
Tomorrow. Tomorrow I will get caught up. Even though we’re having an Extra Game. This is going to happen.
‘Night, all.
–
I’d pay good money to see how she reacts to you using it in conjunction with nether parts.
Josh,
I know, I know.
You absolutely cannot imagine how frustrated she makes me. *sigh* But she loves me, so I deal with her bullshit.
(Pickles, on the other hand, might deign to rub her face on you, now that she’s tasted the horrors of being outside for a day. She’s even been affectionate toward me!)
Okay, it’s time for bed. ‘Night, everyone!
About that, I really doubt she’d care. She’s funny that way.