Andre has the inside scoop on what his god thinks of me.
God doesn’t love you
A lot of Christians are big on forgiveness, I’m not. God fucking hates your guts. He is sitting up there just watching you, watching you with bated breath, with a stopwatch just waiting until you finally croak in 30 or 40 or however many years, and then he will do a little jig before going down to the Pearly Gares and giving Peter the day off, and he will bring you up to the Gates, and make you think that you’re going to make it in, and then PUNK’D! Into hell, where Beelzebub and Lucifer and Leviathan and Hitler will take turns kicking you right in the wiener for all eternity. Have fun, asshole.
You know, actually, not a lot of Christians are big on forgiveness. They say they are, but when it gets right down to it they’re as much into forgiveness as they are into poverty and humility — it all sounds good and noble and admirable, but they still act petty and nasty and wish the worst of everyone. Like Andre does in the rest of his email, which I pretty much ignore as Christian hate fantasy.
But I had to point out the glaring misconception in the first sentence.
Oh yeah? Well Spiderman AND Dr. Who think you’re a dick!
Wait, why is God waiting for you to die? I thought he’s the one calling the shots and could smite you any time he wishes.
Sophisticated theology leaves me baffled again.
Wow — even Christians think PZ makes this piteous, impotent God sit up there just watching him, watching him with bated breath, with a stopwatch just waiting until he finally croaks in 30 or 40 or however many years, so it can do a little jig?
(Fuckin’ awesome)
He forgot Beelzebubba.
Wow, PZ! Just think how wicked you must be if Hitler will be kicking you in the ball forever.
I cannot help but think of what O’Brien told Winston Smith what the future held. A boot to the face forever.
I left out a strategic “s”. Your mission, if you chose to accept it, is to find where it goes.
PUNK’D and wiener in the same blabbering email?
wiener?
really?
So there’s ‘ol PZ in the nether world. Halfway through eternity he turns and sees Andre.
“What are you doing here?”
“Well you see that email I wrote you…”
What struck me most about Andre’s god delusion is not what a petty asshole this god is. (Because that’s old news. After all, every fundie worships a petty asshole of a god.)
What really struck me, was how pathetically impotent this god is. Even in Andre’s worst fantasies, all he can do is sit and wait. It’s almost like Andre actually understands that PZ is mightier than Andre’s god. (Which he is, being existent and all that).
And this weakling god is what Andre “chooses” to believe in and worship? Wow. Are you really sure you wanted the Internet to know about this, Andre?
The phrase is giving me lolfits. Andre seems incapable of imagining hardcore Boschian torture. Hitler, rather than suffering eternal torment as most xtians would assert, has been promoted to Lucifer’s little helper. And then there’s the silly euphemism “wiener,” even though Andre doesn’t cavil to use words like “fuck” or “asshole.”
Janine:
Yeah, it’s Hitler himself who supposedly only had one. Supposedly.
me too
He is sitting up there just watching you, watching you with bated breath, with a stopwatch just waiting until you finally croak in 30 or 40 or however many years
‘cuz he’s so powerless he can’t do anything to speed along your death. In fact he’s so powerless that those silly doctors were able to identify your heart condition in time to keep you with us a bit longer (yay!)
His all-powerful being seems to be a master at the bated breath…
@Janine: History’s Greatest Monster
well according to the song, Hitler only had one: but poor old Goebbels…
btw this paragon of Xian mercy can actually spell, EVEN BATED!!!! (Rather than the ‘baited’* would expect from the likes of him.)
______________
* This is always wrong apart from the joke about the cat that ate some cheese and waited…
So Andre’s arse kicking Christian god is a different god to the one the forgiving Christians subjugate themselves to? Or there are two Christian gods? More? Or the Christian god just two faced?
Or does Andre just have a more special relationship with his god than all the other Christians and therefore knows him better.
If the Deity hates you so much, why did he invite you on his show, which is how I found Pharyngula.
“kicking you right in the wiener for all eternity”
Obviously a child of god…
So many details that Andre could only know about if he was divinely inspired by god himself. How else could he know about the stopwatch and giving Peter the day off? Of course Hitler gets the privilege of joining an eternal ball kicking gang, who else are you going to tap for that job? Reagan?
I can play pretend, too.
What really happens is that, PZ, Hitch, Darwin and Carlin are in a ball-kicking co-op together. They’re supposed to torture each other, but they actually just sit around talk about real stuff like cephalopods and brewing beer. Whenever Lucifer drops by (he’s actually a pretty cool dude) they just pretend to kick Carlin, and Carlin cusses so loud it SOUNDS like he’s being tortured. It’s all about appearances anyway.
There we go. I think that’s what he meant.
Ah, some Christians are just like a birthday present that I can open multiple times. I do like how Andre has made his god need a stopwatch. Quite a long way from a deity that can kill someone he doesn’t like (or someone who just wants to keep his magic box upright) with a thought.
Such a complete example of self-projection as God. Andre’s god is just as stupid and hateful as he is. Hoo-ray! :)
Hey, even nice old churchgoing ladies can do that. Andre, you can do better!
I smell Poe. He spelled bated correctly.
It’s almost as if Andre the Weiner is using “God” as a standin for his obsessive anger so that he can still go on thinking he’s a good person.
Wouldn’t a stopwatch be for measuring time from now until death after the fact? I think he needs a countdown timer, like the one on my oven.
I see Hitler has been promoted to a deity in the Christian mythos. Interesting insight into their thinking.
Also does St Peter get the day off so that there’ll be no witnesses? God must be very ashamed of what he’s planning.
As noted already by LuminiferousEthan (#16), how convenient that God thinks just like Andre.
I’m awestruck by the nasty, petty, vindictiveness of the God he describes. And he says he worships this fella?
Way to go, reducing the almighty, all-knowing, creator of the universe to the level of a spiteful five-year old waiting with his magnifying glass for an ant to come out of a crack in the pavement.
Of course it’s a Breguet stopwatch.
Deity: an imaginary friend who hates whoever you hate, thereby conferring on said hatreds divine authority.
Captain Obvious signing off. Still: it’s always so nice of ’em to make it so conveniently blatant.
(/… Also, in my ever so humble opinion, Lyle Lovett’s approach to this sorta thing was way cooler.)
Another sunday school xtian, believing all the fairy tales told there about pearly gates and hell and the creatures that lay within. And knowing, some how, what these creatures are thinking.
And filled with hatred. Always, the hatred.
The reason Andre’s Wienie God has to wait for PZ to die is PZ owns an automobile, an iron chariot. Everyone knows that the Christian Wienie God is powerless against the iron chariot.
PZ, I am sorry that you receive such spiteful emails and letters. Since I am assuming you are not an evil person in your spare time (aka serial killer, rapist, etc) no one should ever receive these things. I know we disagree in our views on God and religion but that is no reason to wish you an eternity in hell. Not that you really care but I forgive you for your views on these things. I only hope that one day before you pass, and may that be well into your 100’s, that you know Christ and ask for forgiveness for all the sins you have committed throughout your life. That’s my pulpit speach for the day & now I feel much better….ahhh.
[Godbotting is a bannable offense around here, asshole. Take your evangelical fantasies elsewhere. –pzm]
I thought Hell was a place of eternal punishment ?
I imagine that Hitler would probably enjoy kicking PZ in the weiner – wouldn’t that compromise the suffering to which he has been sentenced ?
Man, I wish I received such awesome hate-mail. I only get the usual ‘God bless you’ crap.
tonysnark:
What can I say? People tend to worship themselves.
Dano @ 30,
Wishing PZ, or any other atheist, an eternity in hell has no more effect that blowing soap bubbles at him. Same for wishing he finds Jebus, Zeus, Baal, or Santa Claus before he dies. And sins? They aren’t real.
Your god sounds more and more pathetic by the day, Andre. Fuck, your Satan* (who I assume approved all of this crotch whaling) sounds less like The Prince of Darkness and more like a frustrated child.
*Who, let’s face it, is a much more interesting literary character than God. For example: when was the last time you played a video game that featured Yahweh?
Dano, still no evidence for your imaginary deity, or that your babble isn’t a book of mythology/fiction. And you want us to think you are rational and an authority? “I don’t think so Dano.” to paraphrase a put upon realist.
Nice that he’s so willing, nay, eager to admit to not following one of the core tenets of Christianity. It’s too bad that more of his fellow religionists aren’t willing to just come out and admit that it’s nothing more than a tribe for them.
This is quite hilarious, and yet a bit tragic. It makes one feel sorry for Andre.
I’m quite struck by the fact that he came up with god kicking you in the wiener; such an odd combination of prudishness and homoerotic fantasy. Such language is far more evocative when using dick or cock, for example. Wiener just sounds so childish and simply naive. If Andre’s god is so eager to kick genitalia, maybe he’s even more lustful to insert his massive divine dick into people’s assholes. One can hardly imagine so great a deity being satisfied with a mere kick in the groin.
It’s also quite remarkable that Andre thinks he can know the things he claims, and of course he could never propose a means to verify the truth of his assertions.
But the main impression I get when I witness a person who feels the need to take actions of any kind on behalf of their god, whether it takes the form of vaguely threatening hate mail or otherwise, is that this pettiness is a perfect demonstration of the fact that they have no faith in their god whatsoever to fend for himself; they must truly believe that their god is powerless if they feel the need to lend their own puny efforts to their god’s projects.
Wow, PZ, you should be proud to be so important that God is taking this intense, personal interest in you. Sitting around with a stopwatch waiting for you to die, giving Peter the day off to personally send you off to hell, you’d think he’d have better things to do. I wonder if he takes such a personal interest in Dawkins, Dennet, or Harris. Did he do this for Hitch? Or is it just the whole cracker thing that has earned you God’s undivided attention? I expect there are devout people all over the world who are starving under the yoke of economic injustice, dying of terrible diseases, mourning loved ones lost in disasters and war, who would do anything to get just one one hundredth of the attention this petty tyrant god seems to be lavishing on you for the sin of cracker mutilation.
What a sad little being…
I like it when Christians are honest. You don’t see that very often.
Well it’s good to know Hitler’s still doing God’s work for him.
I’m not sure which is funnier/worse: That Andre believes in a petty, sadistic tyrant who has nothing better to do than dream about torturing PZ, or the fact that Andre thinks this evil god is going to be concerned with keeping his promise to not do the same to Andre as long as he telepathically thanks the right guy for getting murdered.
A god evil enough to send even a single soul to hell is a god evil enough to break his promise to not send you there.
I don’t think Leviathan has feet though.
Is there a word for flippering, or possibly tentacling someone in the nuts?
Dano
Yes, but according to your dogma it is your god that gives the “forgiveness” that really matters. Congrats on your arrogance.
So your “forgiveness” has no real power either in your make believe world or in reality.
Ughh, keep that to yourself, would ya?
Wait a minute – why wouldn’t Hitler be shaking your hand and congratulating you?
A lot of Christians are big on Tex-Mex, Andre’s not. God fucking hates Tex-Mex. He also hates House, windy days, and Mrs. Nicholson, who flunked Andre in fifth grade geometry.
I bet Andre feels better after his little sermon too. Coincidentally, he also started his by distancing himself from other Christians and their beliefs before launching into full-on self-serving fantasy.
Tell me dano, do you actually think your beliefs make you some kind of a good person?
Oh gee, Andre’s imaginary friend isn’t very nice.
He could fix that. Imaginary friends are very flexible.
I suppose Andre is too dim to realize that his imaginary friend in the sky is just a projection of his personality, a sockpuppet.
He is sitting up there just watching you, watching you with bated breath, with a stopwatch just waiting until you finally croak in 30 or 40 or however many years…
And who made that stopwatch, HMMMMM, Andre? Did God just happen to find it on a heath and decided that he himself made it?
And if he did, then of course that means that God also made himself! And things that God makes are God! So who made a stopwatch make God make himself then?
HMMMMM?
It’s working according to plan, PZ. Keep the nasty old sky-fairy distracted. The rest of us will go loot some churches.
Oh yeah, my unicorn’s going to gore you, Andre.
I just had to find a “threat” that would frighten you as much as hell terrifies us.
Glen Davidson
Matthew @ #48,
Because the Trustworthiness of Bears Chart puts PZ way ahead of Hitler, and Hitler is known to be a jealous little fuck. That’s why his beard sucks.
Turtles: No, no, no, Andre’s wiener-kicking Christian god.
Eclectabotanics:
Nah, Reagan would stop in the middle, forget what he was doing, wander off, and ask “Mommy” to give him his daily enema.
SQLRob, you’re probably right.
Hooray, Dano’s GONE!!!
Audley: “Crotch whaling” is a funny phrase. AVAST, MATEYS, WE BE HUNTIN’ THE BIG WHITE WIENER!!
Coyotenose:
No, but there’s probably a Japanese… art film all about it.
He mastered “bated”?
What is this? and I’m 12.
Glen Davidson
Glen:
“Permit me to introduce my family, Mr. Lincoln…”
dano:
What happens if he kicks Christ right in the wiener instead?
So heaven is a schoolyard and God is the head bully?
whelp. I’m done.
Might now be able to function for a while after that one.
Darth Vader also finds your lack of faith disturbing, PZ.
Stings, huh?
Nah PZ, you got him all wrong. Clearly your correspondent is a PUA, who’s just trying to Neg you a bit so as to get you to do things to try to make him like you. He’s not angry with you, he just wants a date. Poor little cupcake.
I was reading Dan Savage’s latest column yesterday, and learned that there are men who actually enjoy getting kicked in the “wiener” area. Perhaps Andre is projecting a bit here…
How kind of Dano to forgive PZ for his views. I got such a warm, fuzzy feeling inside that it promptly caused me to vomit. (And Rey Fox: YOMANK.)
PZ was kind enough not to expose André’s identity, but do we know that André is an adult? The reason I write this is that it’s hard for me to imagine that anyone but a kid would write about God, Hitler, whomever, kicking someone in the “wiener”? His comments are pure idiocy, but if they’re coming from an adolescent I don’t know that ganging up on him is the right thing to do.
@49 No, but I know I am a better man for following them than if I did not.
I guess you have more limited experience of just how vile some Christians can be.
Ooh, this was a fun one, although these fundies are lacking in imagination if you ask me. I mean really, Hitler and Satan are gonna kick you in the wiener? What?
JT,
Ahem, it’s The Doctor, not Dr. Who. Doctor Who is just the name of the show. Aaaaargh.
(Sorry, but this always bugs me. I can’t help it.)
Dano,
Cthulhu forgives you for worshipping a false god. May you be devoured first. Now I feel all good and stuff. Aah…
Arrogant little shit.
FIFY. PZ has warned you. Fade into the bandwidth.
@Paleotrent: So it’s okay for this poor, helpless adolescent to send PZ a violent and hateful email but not okay for PZ and us to react to it? Maybe the shit–whether he’s an adolescent or fully grown douchebag–will learn something here. (Doubtful, I know.)
@68, are you worried my words may contain the truth even though you speak against me? Again, tell me where I have ever attacked someone on here or used derogatory statements towards someone. I am simply one person giving my view point. Can all of you not handle one person with a differing view point. You can not find a solution to a debate if you don’t hear from both sides.
/pearl-clutching mode
But, but, but, you HAVE to be forgiving! *faint*
/end mode
Sorry, thinking back of Gelato guy. For some categories of people, it seems forgiving should be automatic when you are the offender, but not if you are the accuser.
(PZ, this is not a critic of you – just that I hate the no-pology attitude of “I said I’m sorry, so forgive me you @!&$%@*”; attitude that some supporters of the Gelato vendor exemplified marvelously)
Actually, today’s guy sounds like he watched too many films noirs/mafia movies.
“Others may forgive you, but not me!” *multiple gunshot sounds*
Funny how talking to a computer makes you a badass.
#65 dano:
You are confusing morality and ethics with supernatural belief. The two are not connected. There is an awful lot of supernatural belief throughout the history of human culture, and an awful lot of immorality as well, and the two are often but not always connected.
Ethics and morality in no way depend on any supernatural belief, and no supernatural belief guarantees them. To respect human dignity, property, and freedom I don’t need to invoke Zeus or Huitzilopochtli or Yaweh. I do it simply because it is rational; I accept the golden rule, or the categorical imperative because they are obviously in accord with my innate human moral intuition.
Reason coupled with simple experience of human beings makes it a fair expectation that others will treat me as I treat them, and so I treat them as I wish to be treated. I can follow community standards, obey the law, treat others with kindness, compassion, and generosity simply because it is the right way for social mammals to interact in order to achieve maximal harmony, peace, and solidarity, which are clearly worthy goals.
These behaviors obviously are correct ways to establish effective institutions created by people and for people to meet the needs of people. There is nothing magic about it at all. I don’t need to be born tainted by a fictitious transgression in an imaginary Eden, and then be forgiven by Jesus to simply be human. We are born human. It’s in our genes.
If you avail yourself of extant scientific findings, and assuming you are of ordinary intelligence or better, you will see our genes have nothing to do with the action or intentions of an all powerful intervening intelligence; they are simply nature unfolding naturally, which according to all available evidence happens without any kind of supernatural divine interference, intervention, or intentional manipulation.
But when he goes fishing, he probably brings live bate.
No wait, Glen already won.
@70 dano:
For you to assume a morally superior tone, and to condescend to forgive atheists for not believing in your god is taken to be hostile and insulting. It is a passive aggressive form of Christian attack. Try humility first, then you will be forced to question your implicit assumption of superiority.
When’s Andre coming back to defend himself. Surely he’s not such a coward as to do the email equivalent of a hit-n-run.
Admittedly it’s only the equivalent of doing a hit-n-run with a toy car.
@dano, As fas as I’m concerned you can give your viewpoint all you like, and I can tell you you’re full of shit all I like.
I love how christians play good cop-bad cop.
What truth? The truth that you are a delusional fool, believing without evidence the twin lies of your imaginary deity and mythical/fictional holy book?
Or, your delusions based on those twin lies? There is no truth in your delusions. Now, if you could show otherwise with solid and conclusive physical evidence….
Dano, just a warning because you are such a nice guy.
Your immortal soul is in danger!!!
The real god, Brahma, is very disappointed in you. You are following a pretend god made up by ME goat herders.
Repent or in your next reincarnation, you will come back as a tapeworm, isopod, or even, if you are really deaf to god, a fundie xian. Again.
You must have been extremely evil in your last life.
@ 72 Jeffrey, perhaps we were raised differently so you may not understand how I became the person I am today. I was taught at a very young age that there are things in life we can and can not do. These lessons were explained to me by use of children’s Christian books, church, and Sunday school.
Now I am not telling you that this was 100% of the time but it was a very big part of my learning process to understand the world and help to build my own set of ethics so I understood right from wrong. The way you explain it I perceive your definition as being one without a Christian background. My parents could easily show me reasons why in the bible I should not lie, call others name, kill, steal, etc. This may seem foreign to you but is a fairly normal way in the U.S. Am I saying this is the only way…No, but it seemed to have worked perfectly for me and most people I know. There are of course people with my same beliefs that have decided to stray. I can not control them nor should I worry whether I should be using the same lessons with my children as there are always those crazy wackos out there. I hope this helps you better understand my learning of life’s lessons.
@76-perhaps I am a cop
Hey Dano!!!
I only hope that one day before you pass, and may that be well into your 100′s, that you know Brahma and ask for forgiveness for all the sins you have committed throughout your life.
Dano, there is still time. Brahma loves you and really wants you to upgrade in your next life. You must have done something horrible in your last one to come back as a fundie internet troll.
You are running out of time here. While the universe will last a long time, spending billions of years as a lower life form is no way to go through eternity.
If you try really hard, you could reincarnate up to a Gerbil or even a rabbit.
You are admitting that you were brainwashed by abusive parents here. Which we already know.
And you aren’t bright enough or sane enough to break your programming, which we also know.
Dano is just a meat robot. And a boring one at that.
PS Godbotting, which is what he is doing, is a bannable offense. If PZ let all the fundie meat robots run around loose, Pharyngula would be overrun.
Mencken had this right at least:
It needs saying more often.
Louis
@80, I have always wondered if I was reincarnated what would I choose….shark, tiger, Atheist? Tough call but what ever happens I hope I am happy and am able to follow my soul where ever that leads me.
Raven, I have spoken no ill will towards you. Why must you have such hatred towards me?
How is dano still posting if banned?
Dano you are absurdly rude, condescending, hateful, and smug
Dano your presense despite the clear response that your “sympathy” and “comments” are seen as hateful belittling and insulting does demonstrate ill will.
Hi Dano! You and I were raised very similarly so I definitely understand how you became the person you are today. I was taught at a very young age that there are things in life we can and can not do. These lessons were explained to me by use of children’s Christian books, church, and Sunday school.
Then I pulled my head out of my ass and realized they were trying to teach me poorly disguised arrogance, hatred and bigotry. Until you figure that out, you are a loathsome individual, just like I used to be. For now, take your hatred, condescension and lies and fuck right off, decaying porcupine optional but recommended.
There’s no evidence of that whatsoever.
You’ve repeatedly been asked questions, questions that you yourself have asked of others, and you’ve ignored them, either out of cowardice, dishonesty, or both.
You can bleat all you want about right and wrong, but it’s obvious you’re a shamelessly dishonest asshole. That you refuse to look into your own heart and see what rot lay within does not look good on you.
What hatred? Learn to read.
I want only the very best for you. I’m concerned that you will spend billions of years as a very low form of life, making the same mistakes, and being reincarnated as the lowest of the low.
Brahma wants you to upgrade in your next reincarnation. There are enough fundie xians occupying the lower life form category. He really needs more Gerbils.
Who the fuck do you think you are to forgive someone for what they believe, you slimy little shit? You simply demonstrate the truth of the observation that those who talk about what “God” wants are simply saying what they themselves want.
You mistake pity and ridicule of your delusional beliefs as hatred. You identify with those beliefs and think they are you, not a decision (choice) you made. You can always undo that choice.
You have nothing to offer us that we haven’t heard before. Many of us grew up in households who believed and we are familiar with the babble. In fact, really reading the babble is a leading cause of atheism.
Why must you keep spouting your beliefs at us? We won’t be swayed unless you stop proselytizing, and start with conclusive physical evidence for your imaginary deity. Evidence that will pass muster with scientists, magicians, and professional debunkers, as being of divine, and not natural (scientifically explained), origin. Something equivalent to the eternally burning bush. Now, if you are a person of honesty and integrity, you will either put up that evidence, or shut the fuck up about your imaginary deity. Liars snd bullshitters can’t put up, and can’t shut up. Here’s a good way to show us your real character.
Submitted without comment.
I like that Andre doesn’t put up the phony “good guy” facade that usually accompanies threatening other people with imaginary torture. I appreciate the honesty.
“… now I feel much better….ahh”
Funny…the reaction dano has after taking a verbal shit is the same as mine after taking a regular shit.
It is quite typical of a certain flavor of theist (as well as believers in other ideologies, too) to automatically equate any criticism of their beliefs with hatred.
No, we do not “hate” you. We think your beliefs are silly, delusional, and HARMFUL, both to others and to YOU. And we RESPECT your fundamental humanity and intellect enough that we do not wish to enable and perpetuate this harm by coddling your false beliefs.
We also consider you emotionally strong enough that a few blunt words or even insults from random strangers on an pseudononymous forum will not result in permanent psychological scars.
The above applies so long as you do not demonstrate obvious evidence of intellectual dishonesty. After that the gloves come and you can expect real anger, and often considerable pity.
But not hate. Hatred takes too much effort and is not worth the trouble.
If we really hated you we wouldn’t be responding to you at all, we’d be busy tracking down your true identity and location so we can organize the lynching mob.
leviathan is in hell?
so not only did god make the dinosaurs go extinct, he sent them to hell, too?
and does this mean dinosaurs have/had souls?
sophisticated theology is sophisticated.
it really gets me that what gets the religious so pissed off is not truly bad immoral, predatory or cruel behavior behavior it is lack of belief in god. By all evidence PZ is an honest man, kind family man who makes his living as a teacher of the young. He is not involved in any criminality or antisocial behavior. Is not involved into bank fraud or questionable investment schemes. So his big “sin” is daring to question the validity of claims of the existence of a divine being. That earns him the worst in eternal punishment in hell.
that sounds just a little diabolic to me.
uncle frogy
and tediously boring
I have always wondered if I was reincarnated what would I choose….shark, tiger, Atheist?
Huh? Dano thinks that atheists are a separate species from believers? Um…no.
@dano, #70
Ah, the call of a troll who’s getting frustrated. If people don’t fall at their feet, it’s because they “can’t handle one person with a differing view point”, never because they have their own viewpoint which might actually be a more valid one.
dano, do you *honestly* think that everyone here has been living under a rock and hasn’t heard the Christian schpiel before, thousands and thousands of times?
While I consider this a very easy to grasp concept why do I get the feeling that scifi will have a hard time grokking it?
DAMN IT
wrong thread
Daisy,
For your amusment:
Dude, stop whaling on my junk!
Andre’s god makes Cthulhu look like the lesser evil – that is an unforgivable offense.
Most of us on these threads are ex-Xians. We’ve not only heard the god babble hundreds of times, some of us have preached or witnessed it ourselves.
Some of the atheist leaders are ex-Xian ex-Ministers.
Dano knows this. He just wants to do his passive-aggressive attention seeking act. It’s thinly disguised hostility and/or someone who is desperate for attention.
I’m starting to think this one really isn’t all there mentally. I’d be tempted to recommend professional help. But first you have to want to get better.
The fundies I know are actually huge into forgiveness…for themselves. That is why, at least ones I know, they loved the passion of the christ. Jebus was tortured and killed “FOR ME.” All that for ME. Wow, how special must I really be…for a GOD to allow himself to be tortured and killed to show how much he loved ME. Completely self-absorbed and claiming to be humble at the same time. Forgiveness for others? Heck no. I also love that this Andre knows the mind of god. So do the fundies I know. Although they are quick to claim that no one knows the mind of god, when another god botherer does the same thing, but says something they don’t agree with. Truly amazing hypocrites.
Please note that I’m not speaking for anyone else but myself.
Dan-o, when you pee in the pool everyone gets mad. When you pee on one person by the pool, usually they get mad.
You don’t have to target each and everyone individually. Your condescension and endless obliviousness to replies to you are (potentially) annoying to anyone who can read the blog. Did you think the open posts were private in someway?
Coyotenose: Hitler had a beard?
Paleotrent:
The comment struck me as coming from a putative adult. That said, adolescents are old enough to be snarked if they send people hateful emails like that. And nobody is “ganging up on” Andre.
Dano:
“Make an intelligent argument” obviously falls into the latter category.
You’ve already established that you’re an authoritarian shit-for-brains, so why not.
Dianne:
Yes, and, more to the point, he’s comparing us to vicious predators.
Although I have to say, I’d totally watch a movie called Crouching Tiger, Hidden Atheist.
Audley: HA!
dano
Have you seen what commenter scifi is saying about you on this thread?
https://proxy.freethought.online/pharyngula/2012/04/30/tzt-5/
Jadehawk wrote,
Only his sinful, wiener-kicking… flipper is. God I hope that’s a flipper.
———-
Ms. Daisy Cutter wrote,
All I know is that I first saw the Trustworthiness of Beards chart on Pharyngula, and Hitler was at the bottom of the list. Two spaces below “Werewolf”.
PZ’s beard was at the top, which I’m sure had NOTHING to do with its being posted.
dano says:
Yes Dano, we understand the process of enculturation.
Thus:
“The way you explain it I perceive your definition as being one without a Islamic background. My parents could easily show me reasons why in the Quran I should not lie, call others name, kill, steal, etc. This may seem foreign to you but is a fairly normal way in Saudi Arabia.”
We are miles ahead of you. Start thinking.
When i see the name “Beelzebub” I can’t help but read Beeblebrox (of the Zaphod type). I’d be down to party with Zaphod, seemed like he knew how to party. I’d assume he’s in hell (well, as much as anyone else is)
Turtles #75, that would be an imaginary toy car.
Huh, I’m mildly impressed this guy recognizes Lucifer and Beelzebub as separate entities in the Christian Mythology. Though he loses points for listing the Leviathan as a demon. In the Bible (which this wonderful person probably claims to follow) the Leviathan is a just a really big animal. Remember, it’s from when god tells Job basically that he made his life suck and get over it loser.
Yes, and, more to the point, he’s comparing us to vicious predators.
Could be worse. He could have compared us to humans and you know how they are.
There was once a time, lest we forget, when Hitler’s beard was consider very normal and trustworthy, and all kinds of people, including Charlie Chaplin, where in the habit of wearing such a beard.
Trustworthy enough that a lot of people were happy to accept Hitler’s word regarding the Sudetenland.
(Though not, despite the common wisdom, Neville Chamberlain. Chamberlain didn’t actually trust Hitler at all, but considered his nation too unprepared for war to confront Hitler immediately at that time, and hoped to buy a little time for preparation. What he apparently didn’t know was that Hitler’s Germany was equally, if not even moreso, unprepared for war at that time, and Hitler’s aggressive negotiating stance was a bluff the whole time.)
And what things are those, dano, that you cannot do?
Killing? The Bible has numerous examples of “righteous” individuals killing at God’s command. Joshua fit the battle of Jericho? Not even the very old and the very young are spared. Moses? Told his army to take the Midianites female children, “who had not known man by lying with him,” for themselves. Abraham lied to the Pharaoh about who Sarah was. Oh, and he tied his son to the stake and put a knife to his throat. That too.
Other “righteous” men of the Bible offer up their daughters for gang rape.
There is no action so vile as to be absolutely forbidden, as long as God supposedly commands it. If you were taught better, those Christian books were just props.
At least he’s honest about being a hateful worm. I think I detest the ones that lie about it while saying that their behavior is because they love you even more.
Ok, I get Beelzebub and Hitler, but the other two don’t make sense. Leviathan was a monster in the OT; last I recall, per Christian teaching, animals don’t have a soul, so they don’t go the afterlife.
As for Lucifer? I have news for you Andre–the Bible never says that Lucifer is Satan; that’s entirely made up after the fact. It’s not in your holy book. In fact, the few times the Bible does mention Lucifer, it speaks sweetly of him as the light of day or some such thing, and uses the same sort of language for Lucifer that it uses to describe Jesus.
@116, “There is no action so vile as to be absolutely forbidden, as long as God supposedly commands it.” You are correct. I’m glad you were able to answer your own question. That is worth 2 gold stars! Reach 5 and you get a free crock pot.
You asked “And what things are those, dano, that you cannot do?” The items I stated above in #79 when not commanded by God and honestly as I have stated in other posts I could not make a judgment call to kill even when commanded by God until I was faced with dilema.
When I’ve a lobotomy, perhaps.
PS: Whenever I see the name “Beelzebub”, I automatically hear “…has a devil put aside for meee, for meee, for MEEEEEEE…”
Look, what’re you people doing baiting poor Dano with threats from the obviously false god, Brahma ? You know full well that there is no god but Odin, and Thor is his son. Do you really want to spend eternity in Ghenna, moaning and grinding your teeth, because you scoffed at the One True God ? Do you really want to miss out fighting in Ragnarok alongside the All-Father, just because of some twit you met on the Internets ?
May your hammer break at an inopportune time!
— in Odin’s Name.
@dano:
You, as many of us were, have been brainwashed as a child. With me it was a happy-go-lucky kind of “see what a great person your grandfather was. He loved Jesus!” and that turned me into a Christian.
Others, I’m sure, were due to being told about Hell and about stuff like that. Others more for other reasons. You were a child and you were indoctrinated into the religion of your culture.
Unlike all of us, however, you never broke away from that. We questioned things that didn’t make sense. We questioned church policy and politics, we loved science and saw that reconciling logical scientific matters with religion were impossible, or we were pushed out of it be people who caused us to see the spiteful hatred in many congregations.
You choose to remain in that veil of ignorance, and for that, I don’t hate you. I do have pity for you though. Pity and a hope you’ll toss off the shackles of ignorance and irrationality and embrace reason.
Not likely.
Why you contemptible, repulsive, horrible little jackal. You smug, smarmy little shit-eater. Why the fuck are you here? Seriously, why the fuck are you even here? The fuck is wrong with you?
Are you just posting this shit so you can rub one out to the replies? You sick little monkey.
For those wondering if Peter ever does get time off from being the gate keeper, I’m happy to report that he does.
One day Jesus came to the Pearly Gates™ and told Peter: “Hey Pete, take the day off, I’ll hang around here for a while.”
After a while, an old man came to the gates and asked if he could come in. Jesus said: “First you have to tell me something about yourself.”
The old man said: “I was a woodworker and I had a son. Well, he wasn’t really my son.”
Jesus looked at the old man and said in a tremulous voice: “Father?”
The old man looked at Jesus and said: “Pinocchio?”
Thank you, thank you. I’ll be here the rest of the week. Try the veal.
@123, you seem to have a little twisted way of looking at things. I am simply here to provide the other side of the argument even though I get bashed from time to time or make that every time. I live by the old saying sticks & stones can… I have never felt brain washed by my family or church and infact I see the world very clearly (+ I just had lasik 3 months ago…highly recommended I might add) and feel very happy with both my beliefs and ethics. Do you feel the same way is probably a better question?
Suddenly your morality seems less than absolute.
Just be damn careful about picking up sticks on the wrong day, or you could become much more intimately acquainted with those stones.
Do you honestly think we’ve never been exposed to The Good Word About Jesus™ before? As you’ve been told several times on this thread alone, most of us are former Christians. We know your shit and we know why it’s shit.
I can describe Aquinas’s proofs of God and explain why they’re fallacious. I know what TULIP means and how it shows the Calvinist god actually hates his creation. I’ve explained to a Catholic what Papal Infallibility really is. I know why a golem cannot be part of a minyan. In short, I know a fair bit about the abrahamic religions. I’m hardly unique among the Pharyngula commentariat in this respect.
So you can take you come to Jebus bullshit and go elsewhere. We’re not buying.
Fuck you. I am not the one who just said that anything is permissible if commanded by God. You do not get to talk about ‘ethics’ after posting this:
You can spitshine it all you want, but this is never going to wash away. You just agreed, in a smug, condescending and laughy tone no less, that there is no action so vile as to be utterly forbidden as long as God commands it.
You are truly a repulsive little jackal. A pathetic little bootlick for your imaginary monster-god. A morally repugnant shitbag.
And THIS. This you can shove so hard up your peehole that you rupture the tube, you filth.
Dano doesn’t seem to realize that I find his words claiming god will forgive me to be just as ignorant and arrogant as Andre’s words claiming god will damn me. The two are indistinguishable in their stupidity as far as I’m concerned.
So, if I understand him correctly, Hitler is on God’s side?
I don’t think even Hitler (who, let’s face it, was almost as bad as Hitler) would enjoy kicking someone in the balls forever. Once, sure. Twice? Okay. Ten times? Maybe. But for 100 years? Or a million? Or a billion billion billion billion years? I kinda think it’d get old.
Marcus Ranum @ 11:
Not a huge deal, but for clarification, were you referring to PZ having a heart problem that was corrected by doctors? (???) If so, I hadn’t heard about that.
I know that Daniel Dennet did have a cardiac problem a while ago that was corrected. Could you have meant Dan Dennet?
Footface: I’m picturing perhaps some sort of Goldbergian wiener-kicking apparatus involving a pulley, a rope, and a comically oversized boot.
‘..giving Peter the day off…’
(Jeebus Crisp! The day off??? Ya mean ya STILL have ta WORK– in HEAVEN????? What a racket! I hope Peter’s making better than minimum wage and getting at least a weeks vacation per year,…. or millennium…or whatever time scale they go by up there in Heaven. :)
kreativekaos,
Here is a relevant post.
Oh, PZ, don’t ban dano. I know the fwap, fwap, fwap sound gets a little disturbing, but hoggling is nothing new around here. I find his smug self-importance amusing. With virtually every post he confirms me in my opinion of the kind of Christian who likes to come to atheist communities and “explain things” to us and show his “concern” for us lost sheep. I don’t think he is honestly proselytizing. He is not as stupid as he likes to pretend. He knows perfectly well that many of us know a great deal about the Bible, have heard all the pathetic apologetics, and are not going to be convinced by his poor attempts. I think he enjoys the smugness, the self-righteousness, the knowing that we are all going to be sorry, by and by, but most importantly, I think he gets off on the abuse he gets here. I mean really gets off on it. And I find that not only pathetic, but, frankly, hilarious.
And to be sure, the quality of godbots has been a little low lately. They seem to flounce so much more quickly than they used to. So let the little man stay and preach. It’s his keyboard that gets sticky, not ours.
I like the email writer more than I like dano.
At least he honestly displays his xian hatred for everyone to see so that uninfected minds see it and keep away.
dano says:
This reminds me of… What’s the name of that movie… Ah yes… “Magic” with Anthony Hopkins. Except the ventriloquist dummy is invisible.
If god has the ability to take Enoch into heaven directly without waiting for him to die, he certainly should have the power to send anyone to hell directly without having to wait for him to die.
A truly benevolent god would surely have done just that to any number of history’s great villains.
dano has already admitted that when crunch time comes, when push comes to shove, he will make his own moral decisions based on his own ethical sense and the commands of god can go hang.
Like all theistic hypocrites, he just uses the “word of god” as an after-the-fact justification to do what he has already decided he wants to do.
You can bet without reservation that there will never, ever, be any situation wherein god will command dano to kill when doesn’t want to, and that whenever dano decides that he wants or needs to kill, god will be conveniently there, commanding it.
So dano, when
the voices in your headGod tells you to, then do you kill, people? Maybe join other Christians to wipe out the ungodly? Who is first on the hit list, I wonder?Christians like dano and Andre demonize people who criticize their religious delusions – and compare all others with violent monsters of history. Would that be the kind of dilemma dano means, I wonder? Facing down “evil” in the form of atheists, secularists, et al?
Is dano threatening us?
Creepy. I left this thread this morning after AJs post of Lyle Lovett’s song because of a lightbulb moment. Went to write and now I am reading here as this Christian is literally demonstrating exactly PZs point.
dano, I wonder why you search for atheists to attack and spew hatred at? Why are you so full of hatred and rage toward those who disagree with you?
Phalacrocorax @ #137:
Thanks much for the info…. I didn’t know.
@coyotenose (#45) — I dunno. What do you call it when something without legs does a run-up? (According to the Doctor, it doesn’t matter, you just get out the way because it’s probably trying to eat you, but I digress…)
Dano,
Ahhhh God is love eh? It’s all just a big disagreement, and you’re oh-so-reasonable, right?
Tell me, sweetums, which one of you and me claims to know the mind of the creator of the universe? Which one of you and me claims to be the apotheosis of that creator’s work, in its image even? Which one of us claims to know whether or not the other will moulder in torturous agony for all eternity simply because they didn’t credit the claims of a credulous group?
Hint: None of them are me.
In the words of Bill Hicks, your God is saying to us all “accept my love or burn”, thank you generous Lord for all those options.
If I gave my wife those options I’d be locked up (rightly) as a wife beating, abusive, misogynistic scumbag. And yet you and your ideological ilk magically fail to see that your beliefs are nothing more than cultural Stockholm Syndrome.
Let me break some news to you, honeybunch. I and every single other atheist on this site and in this comment section have heard/read every single argument for your deity and others a hundred times a piece. And I am underestimating that if anything. Our cultures are saturated with heavily privileged religiosity to varying degrees. Instead of examining this, you parrot it.
People like me don’t hate you. Hate is an emotion I leave to you. I have contempt for you. Contempt for the fact that you claim this ultimate righteousness, that you plead these oh-so-special-cases for every one of your beliefs and contempt for the fact that you cannot even begin to honestly an openly consider the flaws of your claims. If mistaking that for hatred gets you through the night, if it makes you feel persecuted and therefore special, well, isn’t that convenient for you.
Go away and have a long hard think. Come back when you have something that wasn’t trivially easy to refute by a Greek philosopher over 2000 years ago.
Louis
True.
Tigers are endangered and barely hanging on thanks to us. Sharks are rapidly heading the same way because people eat the fins and toss the entire rest of the animal over the side of the boat.
Any species that gets in our way just sort of disappears without too many people knowing or caring. There is absoutely no doubt which species is the apex predator on planet earth.
@raven — And people wonder why I’m not a huge fan of humanity…
@147, I am not trying to “convert” any of you & to be honest even if asked I could care less. That’s just not my thing. I don’t get off by your comments either but rather find them quite hilarious and wonder how some of you could actually be scientists. I guess you have to let off some of that steam somehow. What I am interested in hearing is your reasoning behind your disbelief of God.
I made it through a war so if you think a couple names by some childish scientists irks me you don’t know me very well.
@146, “People like me don’t hate you. Hate is an emotion I leave to you.” I have stated many times before but I guess you missed it so I will sound it out for you. I d-o n-o-t h-a-v-e a-n-y h-a-t-r-e-d t-o-w-a-r-d-s y-o-u o-r a-n-y-o-n-e o-n t-h-i-s s-i-t-e. I also do not feel contempt for you but maybe a little pity in that you live your life with no real end goal in sight. Just a meaningless day to day drawn out life that you hope one day will end by death. Perhaps the thought of not having to hate Christians anymore will give you some peace.
“The strongest man on earth is he who stands alone.” Henrik Ibsen
Dano,
No goal? You have to be kidding me, right? I have many goals, as does every single person here. Lack of belief in deity =/= lack of goals. Sorry, you’re wrong.
Meaningless days until death? Far from it. I live for love and happiness, the occasional beer, work and myriad other things. Passion is not excluded by a lack of belief in a deity. You’re wrong again.
Hate Christians? Why bother? They’re just mistaken at best, dishonest at worst. Given the blithering non sequiturs you are spouting, I’m placing you firmly in the latter category. Wrong again, sweetums.
Nice try though. I give you a D- for trying, you appear to have been able to put your name at the top of your paper, but the content is weaker than diuretic homeopath piss. Try again. See me after class.
Louis
@Dano
hate is the only viable explanation for why you continue inflicting your personality on us.
Congratulations? Did it make you feel like a real man to kill? Did you cry to god when the fighting started?
The you would shut the fuck up, as you have nothing to add to any discussion. Your deity is imaginary your holy book one of mythology/fiction. If you wish to discuss cogently, you need to provide conclusive physical evidence to refute both truths. And you present nada, zip, zero, nil, nothing.
I don’t hate christians, I hate assholes. The fact that you conflate the two is your problem.
True; you are just trolling.
Liar.
<snicker>
Keep telling yourself that; you may even come to believe it and thus ameliorate your cognitive dissonance.
Ugh just had a scarey realization. Dano has the morality and grasp of ethics of a child (there are things you do and things you do not do because shut up) and they gave him a gun and taught him to shoot! Isn’t that frightening. Hope there were no nonbelievers in his unit, can you imagine having to trust your life to someone like him?
I’m sorry your life sucks so much that you can’t imagine anyone actually enjoying it. Here’s me raising a toast to the extreme off chance of life extension :-p.
Oh, does this mean you’ll be fucking off now?
nope, guess not.
But you don’t think you ‘stand alone’, do you? You think the creator of the universe has your back. Arrogant little fuck that you are.
Ing:
What does THAT say about THIS:
Dano: Murderous little godbotting fuck.
dano says:
There is no evidence for the supernatural. Once you see past your particular enculturation it becomes painfully obvious.
dano:
No, you have it backwards. Atheism is the ground state—we don’t have to do anything to be atheist, and there aren’t any reasons to be an atheist.
Religious people have a lot of explaining to do.
I don’t know you well and I don’t want to.
I have pictures of dano and scifi with a goat.
dano, answered by No One:
Those two sentences would be a great starting point for a discussion–if that’s what dano wanted. I’d read that sentence of his and shaken my head “no” immediately. He’s interested in gleaning through to find any little bit he thinks he can counter. That makes the hearing part secondary, although it’s the innocent part he wants to claim.
I volunteered to coach a middle school scholars team this year. If I had not, the kids wouldn’t have had a program. Earlier this week, we were writing questions for the Philosophy and Religion folder, and they asked my religion. When I told them that I did not believe, they were interested in hearing the reasoning behind my disbelief. We had a great discussion based on the fact that they wanted to understand, not that they felt compelled to counter.
And dano knows this how? He’s psychic? (Oh wait, psychics are supposed to be put to death according to the bible)
Perhaps dano is projecting here, hmm?
It is fascinating to see how often Christian “love” seems to mean “hatred.” …actually, this fellow is refreshingly honest about his malice.
Whether it’s anti-brain Hammster creationists, Westboro Baptist homophobes or the peon on PZ’s email, there is nothing desirable in becoming like them. And that’s ignoring the inconsistencies, violence and other mayhem their holy book demands you believe or engage in. I can only guess that these displays of lunacy are the death-throes that any dying cult displays when its being shown the doorway to the historical-mythology dumpster.
YHWH, meet Odin. I’m sure you’ve met Mithra. I think there’s a spot for you over at the table with Pele there. It should be nice and warm for you.
…that you know Christ and ask for forgiveness for all the sins you have committed throughout your life. That’s my pulpit speach for the day & now I feel much better….ahhh.
anyone else feel like they need a shower after reading that?
seriously, I think the guy just came in a tissue…
I don’t know that ganging up on him is the right thing to do.
then let me help you.
Yes, it is.
Knucklehead Andre sez:
He sits? On a place called up? He can breathe and he can hold his breath? And needs a stopwatch?
Shit. So do I.
Not impressed. He and I could swap places and you’d never notice.
I guess you have to let off some of that steam somehow.
yup, he’s just projecting. He was indeed jacking off to his imaginary deity in his first post.
*shudder*
dano wrote:
Then you are failing in one of your primary duties as a Christian. See Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:15.
That scientists are often atheists is unremarkable. What’s really deserving of wonder is how so many scientists are Christian. Hint: it has very little to do with Christianity being compatible with science (it’s not) and everything to do with believers being encouraged to compartmentalize when affected by cognitive dissonance.
NO. No no no no no. That’s not how it works.
If I believe that the universe congealed from the ejaculate of a magical spotted crake (peace be upon our Great Crepuscular Lord), I don’t venture into fora where no one shares that belief and then demand that everyone defend their lack of belief in my favored hypothesis.
The burden of proving the existence of your god lies with you, and you alone. You are the one who believes it – convince us why we should. With proper evidence, not circular reasoning or fallacious appeals to authority.
Life has the meaning people give it. You don’t get to decide what experiences are valuable to others. Your sweeping assertion that atheists lead meaningless lives devoid of purpose is an empirical claim requiring evidentiary support; please provide links to the peer-reviewed psychiatric literature demonstrating that non-believers lead significantly less happy or meaningful lives than believers.
Then by inference you also don’t know if it’s the wrong thing to do.
Then why are you bothering to post here at all?
Right. Calling our lives meaningless is not expressing contempt, not at all.
Pitiful hypocritical liar.
Our lives are meaningless, he’s gone out of his way to inform us that he knows how to kill, and has questioned whether any of us will be around in a few years.
Oh yeah…great guy.
I made it through a war so if you think a couple names by some childish scientists irks me you don’t know me very well.
how many people did you kill?
how did you justify that to yourself?
how did you rationalize this made you more of a man than the rest of us?
Is this why you are so fucked up, or did you go to war BECAUSE you were already fucked up?
OK, so I haven’t perused anything like all 174 comments. But the fellow who is addressing our host certainly brings to mind the Austin Lounge Lizards’ immortal “Jesus Loves Me but He Can’t Stand You”
So, Dano wants to know how people become atheists. I’ll demonstrate one route taken. A friend of mine decided that since science education in his area was so bad, he and his wife would homeschool their kids. Both are atheists but wanted the kids to make up their own minds and so declined to tell the kids this. For the kids religious education, they took them to several different churches, synagogues and even found a mosque, in order to expose them all the different world religions. When the kids were asked what they thought of all this, one, unknowingly quoting Richard Dawkins, said ” They all can’t be right. Could it be none of them have it right?” So, if there is an all powerful god so needful of worship, one would think that this deity would make sure we got it straight.
Sundiver: I became a nonbeliever strictly because of filthy jackals like Dano. The question of God’s existence isn’t even that important to me.
I want none of their poison. None of it. Their condescension and hate, disguised as a christly form of ‘tough love’. Their blind adherence to a monstrous imaginary being. Their love of authority and hierarchy. The mere idea of finding salvation by devoting your earthly existence to bowing and scraping to an imaginary abusive father in the sky sickens me.
What more can I say about a guy who agrees that there is nothing so low as to be forbidden when ‘commanded by god’? Seriously, what else can I say except to point out the obvious, that Dano here isn’t just an isolated freak specimen. There is nothing unique here.
All people are born atheists. The question is why some come theists, and some don’t.
If it thinks any of us particularly care about its state of irkness one way or another, then it obviously doesn’t know us very well.
Of course, it has long been apparent that it has no interest in trying to know us at all.
The question is why some come theists, and some don’t.
+1
I would think that you, of all people, named after a canid mesocarnivore, would not slander jackals in such a way.
Rey Fox: I know. I know. Shame on me, displaying such blatant speciesism.
I just keep thinking of Tabaqui from The Jungle Book, weaselly little jackal running around in the tiger’s shadow and fawning over him, always putting on that fake polite shit and acting all hurt and insulted when people tell him to fuck off back to his master.
But at least in little Tabaqui’s defense, big tigers actually exist.
@157 the Laughing Coyote, I stand alone in this forum but I’m pretty sure you already knew that & if not you must have missed remedial comprehension 101 in 3rd grade. My guess is that there are quite a few Christian lurkers but none willing to stand up for their beliefs.
@174 Ichthyic, I would prefer you simply say thank you for defending our country otherwise STFU. I really do hate cowards especially ones, at least I am assuming, that did not serve in the armed forces. If you were anything like me (which I highly doubt) you would offer to buy a person in military uniform their lunch or dinner and then say thank you for defending my freedom. Now don’t whine about it just simply be quiet. Have you ever heard the phrase it is better to be silent and thought a fool then to talk and remove all doubt? Please remove foot from mouth now.
dano
You know what I hate? Assholes who think that because they served in the military, they can sneer that those who didn’t. Just because you were in the military* doesn’t give you any reason to lord it over those who might not have.
And don’t you dare go off on me, asshole. I did six years in the Navy as a nuke Machinist’s Mate in a submarine.
*Note I’m accepting your unsupported word that you did serve in the armed forces.
Lick my ass, you monkey. The armed forces employs plenty of cowards, and choosing not to serve in the military is likewise not necessarily a sign of cowardice.
For instance, I find blindly following the orders of an authority figure (like a god or a general or even a drill sergeant) even when it leads to atrocity to be the height of cowardice.
Furthermore, you don’t get to tell the likes of Ichtyic to ‘STFU’ here.
Ichthyic, I would prefer you simply say thank you for defending our country otherwise STFU
why don’t you invade New Zealand and MAKE ME, fuckwit?
I stand alone in this forum
hardly; plenty of fuckwits pop in here to be laughed at.
you’re just another one, nothing special.
I wonder if dano even realizes that Ichthyic is not an American and owes him absolutely nothing?
Though probably dano in his hubris thinks the entire world owes the mighty Americans an eternal debt of gratitude for single handedly winning WWII and so forth.
Going on to even dare to reference feets in mouths just takes the cake.
A truly laughable performance.
btw, i notice that Steve McGarrett’s sidekick failed to answer the very simple questions I put to him, instead basically accusing me of being a traitor to the country he lives in.
authoritarian much?
what a wanker.
you know what, wanker? I don’t believe for a second you fought for any ideal OF YOUR OWN at all.
you fought because they told you to fight.
pathetic.
It is doubtful, Ichthyic, that dano even knows where New Zealand is.
Equally doubtful that he realizes that for those of us living in other countries, US adventurism in the last decade has made us all, nearly universally, LESS secure, less safe, and contributed in no small way to the worldwide economic problems that have dragged our countries down with the US, and have us all suffer economically.
Frankly, for his individual role in this, dano should owe us reparations.
I find your ill-founded narcissism laughably pathetic. Poor inflated lil dano – people DARE to question his perfection.
You do realize the armed forces have until recently had policies that were openly discriminatory toward gay people, right? So is it “cowardly” of them not to join up and fight for people who don’t even respect their right to be open about their sexuality? How about women – is it “cowardly” of us not to join when we are twice as likely to be subjected to sexual assault in the military as in the civilian population, and very likely to be ignored, shamed, or demoted for reporting?
Fucking seconded.
dano:
Like the belief that killing people half a world away is the Christian way to defend one’s freedom to jail people for smoking cannabis?
(The last time America (arguably) defended itself militarily was in WW2)
Conscientious objection to killing on command is cowardice, right?
Frankly, for his individual role in this, dano should owe us reparations.
that’s a perspective I had not considered previously.
worth thinking about.
I have, though, seriously considered applying for reparations from the then commander in chief, who, along with Cheney, profited mightily.
You really are self deluded, self centered and just a bit stupid if you think you are the only christian to stand for your faith.
Oh, wait, you are an Internet Tough Guy.
Brave christian, you never bothered to answer my simple question, why do you need an act of the president to validate your prayers?
Funny, the vets I have known never expressed this to me, that I should buy their meals and say “thank you”.
Also, allow to point out some of the people who made possible some of the freedoms that I now have. (Though, for how long they will last, I am quite nervous.) Labor activists. Suffragettes. Women’s rights activists. Civil rights activist. Education activist. Free speech activists. Funny thing, some vets were involved in these activities.
Fuck, how could I forget LGBT activists.
Later, I will think of others for whom I am grateful for their courage and ethics.
Easy: no evidence, no belief.
Gods are unnecessary hypotheses.
*blink*
Seriously? You think we’re sick of life and want to die – but somehow haven’t offed ourselves yet, even though we don’t believe it would be a sin or anything?
Dude, I’m a scientist. You have no idea how fucking interesting the stuff is that I work on. I’m with comment 156.
Have you never been interested in anything?
No doubt he was referencing Friedrich Schiller, who put almost the same words into the mouth of a character in a well-known play (Wilhelm Tell) 200 years earlier. (Der Starke ist am mächtigsten allein.)
Defending? Against what?
*crickets chirping*
Die for your country and shit.
But David Marjanović, I was personally threatened by Saddam Hussein. I needed to be protected. If Cheney’s cronies could make a huge profit off of it, it is even better.
Maybe those putative Christian lurkers are actually doing what you only claim to do: coming here to learn things about atheists rather than to preach at them about how meaningless their lives must be.
Die for your country and shit.
I also like Rammstein’s take on it.
How meaningful an existence is living a life in order to get saved and spending that eternity giving glory to a creature that could not possibly be harmed by you?
I would rather live my limited life span then to be an eternal sycophant.
It is a good thing that I do not think that the christian idea of an afterlife is possible.
Ichthyic, I would prefer you simply say thank you for defending our country otherwise STFU. I really do hate cowards especially ones, at least I am assuming, that did not serve in the armed forces. If you were anything like me (which I highly doubt) you would offer to buy a person in military uniform their lunch or dinner and then say thank you for defending my freedom.
I have more to add…
-you did nothing to defend your country; in fact, by blindly following, you have instead contributed to the decline of America, both nationally and internationally. The US is now looked at in a very similar fashion to that of the USSR when THEY invaded Afghanistan in the 80s. Even though, oddly enough, their stated reasons for doing so actually made more sense on paper! This aside from the fact that there were NO justifications whatsoever for the invasion of Iraq, other than W was miffed that his daddy was the subject of attack by Hussein, which isn’t really surprising, given that the SENIOR bush actually was directly responsible for PUTTING SADDAM THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
no, I did not ASK you to protect my freedoms. I Did not WANT you to risk your life for less than nothing. And I will not ACCEPT the lie that you have told yourself to rationalize your blind authoritarian acceptance of what your leaders told you.
In my mind, you are no different than all those that have gone before you that blindly follow orders and cause more misery than they can possibly know or accept.
you did the world no favors.
you did yourself no favors.
you did humanity no favors.
Now you have to live with the fact, that partly because of your actions, hundreds of thousands of people, JUST LIKE YOU, with families, friends, and dreams, are dead.
and for what?
so you can be a serf in a country ruled by oligarchs?
have fun with that.
just keep the fuck away from me and mine.
But, but, Ichthyic, American Exceptionalism…
…should have died out after the end of WWII, if not before.
bunch of deluded sheep.
Here in NZ, there are REAL sheep that don’t take that kinda shit from nobody!
Ichthyic, there is a reason why I am not at all nostalgic about Schoolhouse Rock.
The last time anyone in the American military can honestly say they actively and effectively defended anyone’s freedom was World War II.
No American military adventure since has defended anyone’s freedom. Some were initiated with that intent. Some were not. None were demonstrably effective to that end.
None.
America won the Cold War socially and economically, not militarily.
And as for WWII, only in the period between Pearl Harbor and Midway, and only in the Pacific, could the American military be honestly said to be “defending” anything.
From Midway onwards, Japan was not a credible threat to America in the Pacific. A peace treaty could have been signed at that point and America would have been just as safe as ever. Everything after Midway in the Pacific was retribution for Pearl Harbor.
In Europe, Nazi Germany was never a credible threat to America, and never would have been. America could have stayed out of the European theatre entirely, and the USSR would have won that war by the 1950s at the latest. All of America’s involvement was helping allies, not defending herself.
And after the liberation of France, Belgium, the Netherlands and the rest of Western Europe, the rest of the war was pre-emption. Germany was beaten, and the unconditional surrender bit was all so that the Allies could occupy Germany and shape its politics to their liking to prevent Germany from being a threat to them again.
I’m not saying that any of these motivations were necessarily wrong, or not necessary, but none of them were “defense”.
Ichthyic, there is a reason why I am not at all nostalgic about Schoolhouse Rock.
Yup. I recall being in school, at the same time, and them teaching us all about the wonders of “manifest destiny”.
deluded sods.
Truth. The idea that it is somehow virtuous to take part in a system that performs violence at the feet of political expediency sickens me.
truebutnotuseful @170:
Quoted for being both true and useful (QFTaU), completely countering the meaning of your nym. This is probably one of the most useful things said in recent memory on Pharynguheit 451 and should be posted on the weblog’s front door. But I guess that would take some of the fun out of the place if the pack didn’t have some fresh meat to sink their teeth into.
I have numerous friends, co-workers, and neighbours who either have or are serving in the armed forces. I can’t imagine any of them expecting me (or anyone else) to buy all their lunches for them.
Although if Dano did go to war to defend me, then maybe we should cut him a little slack. WWII was a long time ago, and maybe he’s getting a bit senile now.
(BTW, that’s not meant as a comment on the validity of the USA’s post-WWII policy so much as a comment on the assumption that everyone here is American).
Although on that line, I’d also take issue with Amphiox’s #207. If you are saying that the US wasn’t defending anything except when repelling Japanese attacks on US territory, then you are effectively saying the rest of the world doesn’t count as anything. You can argue that the US shouldn’t defend other people/countries, but you can’t say that defending other people/countries isn’t defending anyone.
If I were anything like you, you pompous, cack-brained, self-worshipping bag of putrescent hyena guts – I’d kill myself.
That’s probably true so long as we don’t assume that America also refused Britain aid and credibly announced that it would remain neutral. The 1941 Nazi invasion of the USSR was considerably hampered by the need to divert resources into the continuing war against Britain and the already forseeable war against the USA. Even so, it was a damned close-run thing: if Stalin had fled Moscow in the second week of October, as he very nearly did, Hitler’s Barbarossa gamble might well have come off.
Dammit, Dano, your arrogance is astounding. Cut it out, you little shit. You are not better than us. You are not better than anyone.
Not available in Germany due to copyright issues.
Assuming the Nazis wouldn’t have figured out how to build nukes and a way to build significant quantities of them. They were working on the first part and got pretty far.
dano @ 183
Knew you were going there eventually. Do you honestly think that no one on this blog has served? Or might be serving currently? For fucks sake numbskull use your fucking brain. And while I respect those of who go in harms way, I have no respect at all for the failed diplomacy that puts them there.
Thanks for securing the oil supply, here is your sandwich.
Regular US Army. 98GL, MI. Disabled vet. Shove it up your arse sideways you lying piece of shit.
BINGO. Dano filled my godbot bingo card. And I win *checks prize board before spinning wheel*. Hey, they all say a free trip to the Pullet Palace. *looks around, sees the PP pointing and laughing*
Oh, Dano you so silly…looks like we hit a nerve.
Dano does it bother you that logically you could never be as brace as an atheist service member? You know since you believe death isn’t the end and they don’t think they’ll be rewarded for dying to save a comrade.
For those from the US, sorry I sometimes forget that this blog is read by people in other countries, here in MN buying lunch at a fast food restaurant for someone in uniform is fairly common. I have seen it done many times for not only armed forces personnel but also police. I did not start it but always go out of my way to say thank you to them for serving & offer to buy them lunch. I really don’t think paying $10 in fast food is that big of a deal and the people always appreciate it.
“Let my enemies devour each other.” Salvador Dali
So Dano, when was the last time you bought a teacher or a nurse some lunch?
Is dano seriously saying we should buy food for him, as well as cops and such?
Seriously?
Here’s a bucket full of spit, Dano. Enjoy!
I don’t know why dano expects thanks for doing his job. I mean he was paid for it right?
“you don’t get medals for doing your job”~Commander Shepard
So in other words you reflexively bend to lick the boots of any authority figure in a uniform?
Dano @ 220
Shouldn’t that apology be directed at people not from the U.S.? Or would you just like to shoot us all for being a problem?
This, of course, illustrates perfectly why ‘nice’ christians like dano who just want to understand why we reject gawd fucking creep me the fuck out.
He’s made it abundantly clear he’s willing to kill on the orders of an authority figure, and he’s been somewhat ambiguous on what he’d do if that ‘authority figure’ was ‘gawd’.
Make no mistake, these kinds of people are fucking poison.
I have had people offer to buy my lunch twice while in uniform. Once while heading down to New York City to work security after the mass murders on September 11. The second time was while in New York City while working on the same detail. Both times I said no, pointing out that as a public servant I am not allowed to take gratuities and that I was on per diem.
And, you lying asshole, the reason that I objected and invited you to shove something up your arse sideways is this idiotic, infantile, and unsupportable idea that atheists could not possibly either be serving currently, or be veterans. Christians have this bizarre idea that religion and the military one and the same. That atheists cannot, for whatever reason, volunteer or give of themselves.
So. Shove a decayed porcupine up your arse with a vigorous twisting motion you Christianist liar.
So it turns out dano is a socialist!
Who knew?
“Let my enemies devour each other.” Salvador Dali
I picture Dano saying this, while having his fingers and toes chewed off from all sides.
uh huh, you just keep believing we aren’t attacking you and your nonsense there, cupcake.
No, I was specifically saying the US wasn’t defending itself.
I already said explicitly that the US was helping allies.
Christians have this bizarre idea that religion and the military one and the same.
not all of them, just the ones with authoritarian personalities.
well, ok, that’s probably effectively the vast majority that go into the military.
er, carry on.
“US territory” ???????
I wonder how dano thinks his post @220 constitutes a rebuttal to anything that anyone has said in objection to his stupid-ass, self-aggrandizing post @183. If he doesn’t think it does, I wonder why he bothered making it. Just masturbation?
Actually I think the USSR would have won that war even if the Nazis developed nukes, and even if the US didn’t help Britain in any way, and even if Germany conquered Britain early on and took over all of Europe, early on.
The manpower and manufacturing disparity was simply too great.
In the case of nukes, there is no realistic scenario wherein the Nazis would have developed working nukes early enough for them to have been available during the period when they were not already losing badly on the Eastern front just from the sheer weight of the manufacturing disparity. That would mean that, even with nukes, they would have had no reliable delivery mechanism to hit any significant targets within the USSR, and they would not have had infrastructure or access to build very many of them.
So long as the initial psychological shock value of having a front line division annihilated with a suicide nuke deployment (that also takes out the front-line German division), I simply don’t see the USSR losing that conflict, ever. And it is quite likely that the USSR leadership would have simply accepted such a loss and pushed on.
Do you walk right up to them and make the offer to their face, making sure that they know that it’s you who is offering them such generosity, or do you quietly just tell the server you’d like to pick up the check of that soldier over there and take care of it without letting on that you’re the one who did it? Somehow I think I know the answer to that one.
Just masturbation?
yup.
losing badly on the Eastern front just from the sheer weight of the manufacturing disparity
and sheer manpower disparity.
though if the germans were not having their manufacturing bases hit by allied attacks at the same time, and had consolidated manufacturing across europe and the UK…
meh, too many ifs.
The thing I always wondered is whether Russia would have been content to let Germany have all of Europe, provided Germany left Russia alone.
So long as the initial psychological shock value of having a front line division annihilated with a suicide nuke deployment (that also takes out the front-line German division)
that’s not how it would happen.
how it would happen is more likely the way the US did it:
bomb a couple of cities for effect, and then threaten other major cities unless unconditional surrender is forthcoming.
Unless you posit an unreasonably early time frame for the development of the bomb, in all probability, by the time they actually succeeded in getting a working nuke, there would not have been any cities that they would have been able to bomb.
They would have lost control of the air by then, the Luftwaffe would have in all likelihood been decimated by then, and the front lines of the war would have probably already breached the borders of Germany itself, such that the very sites that might have been used to research the bomb, build the bomb, and launch strikes with the bomb would have all been in the process of falling to the enemy advance anyways.
And by that time the supplies of heavy water and fissionable Uranium, which all came from outside Germany, would have been cut off by the Soviet advance as well, so the number of bombs they could manufacture would be strictly limited.
The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were only possible at all because America had won air supremacy over the skies of Japan. You are NOT dropping a superweapon into your enemy’s heartland unless you’re already winning the war, not with WWII technology. Not even with the most optimistic extrapolation of German rocketry technology. It is just not happening.
It is quite likely that in any realistic WWII scenario, by the time the Nazis got a bomb, the only target they would have been able to aim for would have been a front-line Soviet army division, because that would be the only kind of target they would have had the capacity to reach, and deliver a bomb to.
And even if they got a bomb off on one of two cities, I highly suspect that Stalin would just go “My armies are going steamroll over your entire country and TAKE your damn bomb from you before you blow up more than 3 or 4 of them, and I don’t care one bit about losing another city or two.”
too many ifs in your post.
fun to speculate, but I don’t agree with all of your ifs.
Why does WWII parallel history always wind up turning into a game of “Find the Iocane Powder”?
I wouldn’t expect you to.
I mean, we’re talking essentially about alternative-history fiction here….
Just remember, it is always in BOTH cups.
The real question is who’s immune?
One last speculation.
Suppose it happened that way. Nazi Germany gets all of Europe. Stalemate with Soviet Russia. (Or total victory for one side – it doesn’t actually change things that much).
The Pacific War will probably go the same way it did in real history, with America stomping Japan. (Or not, suppose a stalemate is reached there as well, with America and Japan splitting the Pacific sphere of influence down the middle).
Putting aside pure paranoia, that scenario actually isn’t that much of an immediate existential threat to America, anyways. Neither Nazi Germany nor Soviet Russia (or Imperial Japan) would have had the capacity to militarily threaten North America in the short term.
We’d have ended up with a Cold War scenario, just like what happened in real life, instead there would have been 3 (or maybe 4) major superpowers glaring at each other, all ending nuclear armed eventually, and so forth.
It would not have been as pleasant a world as what we got, what with there being more of the world under oppressive dictatorships and democracies being limited to the New World, and really, the US itself would not be that much more or less safe in this situation than what really happened in real life.
And my money would be on America winning this Cold War scenario socially and economically just as it did in real life, probably around the same time it did in real life, too.
Hard to say what would have happened to Africa in such a situation. It is entirely possible that Africa would have ended up within the North American sphere of influence and under the North America “umbrella” during a putative cold war.
And remember that even if the British Isles were overrun, the British Commomwealth would have fought on. The British would have just relocated their government-in-exile to Canada (or Australia).
The real question is who’s immune?
not I, sir, not I.
hell, I’m all for land wars in Asia.
@235, If I am in front of them I give the approximate cash to check out person & say nothing to the people in uniform. If they are ahead of me in line I simply ask them. Some have said no but the majority of the time they reply with sure thanks. I am not saying that you have to do this. Just something I have noticed & that I do here in MN. No need to read more into this than what I said above.
@229, I sort of feel the same way but just did not say it as the quote speaks for itself.
Said right after bringing it up when accusing Ichthyic of not being grateful enough to another country’s military.
What were your words, something about how Ichthyic should buy a military man his lunch and say ‘thank you for defending my freedom’ along with various accusations of cowardice and ingratitude? I don’t feel like scrolling up to blockquote it.
Like I said, dano’s reflex is to lick the ass of anyone in a uniform.
well said, Ing.
It’s very easy when you’ve been raised to believe that the big invisible man in the sky knows what’s best for you and doesn’t have to explain himself a bit, as the Good Book says.
Time to Godwin it, with that attitude wouldn’t dano just make a great brown shirt?
BTW, that’s a dumb thing to do. I don’t hate grunts, but they still didn’t really do anything to ‘defend my freedom’, just repress freedoms of non-Meriken.
Seriously, Meriken have faced no external threat to their freedom in more than 60 years. They have strictly been internal, and most of those have been successful.
Dano evidently doesn’t have the courage of his convictions to be a brown shirt. He’d be an informant, at best.
For reference, I would possibly buy a meal for someone who I knew say jumped on a grenade or saved their unit or something like that. Otherwise I have no clue whether they’re a average soldier just doing their job, a war hero, or a war criminal.
Also dano you should not buy them meals. Studies show that when people are made to feel that they are of a class superior to others they act less ethically. If people do fall over you to do you favors because of rank or social class you are more likely to act like a jerk.
My initial response was supportive, but after a few minutes to think on it, I’m not so sure I can agree with even granting particular honors to most of the ones who sacrifice themselves for their side. At the end of the day, they saved soldiers who would then go on to oppress brown or asian people some more. We’re talking about mostly grossly unethical wars, for the most part, and that kind of colors my reactions.
The only ones I can be positive are worthy of accolades are the ones who put themselves at risk to oppose their own side in some limited fashion, like the dudes who dropped a helicopter in front of civvies at My Lai, or a theoretical soldier who risked their career to at least try to do something about Abu Ghraib. Christ, how fucked up is this, anyway?
I’m not so sure on this. I mean, you do have a point, but still. They were saving their fellow humans in heat-of-the-moment life or death situations, regardless of what those fellow humans went on to do. I’m still inclined to grant a kind of honor to that.
People join the military for many different reasons, in some parts of the states as I understand it, one particular such reason is ‘crippling poverty’. I try to be at least a little understanding.
That doesn’t mean Dano’s asslickey attitude doesn’t still sicken me. Real heroes do whatever they do to make a positive difference in the world, not so lowly ‘civvies’ will ooh and aahhh over them. Or at least that’s the ideal.
I might also remind you that several military folks have spoken up in this thread to condemn Dano’s stupidity.
If I am in front of them I give the approximate cash to check out person & say nothing to the people in uniform. If they are ahead of me in line I simply ask them. Some have said no but the majority of the time they reply with sure thanks. I am not saying that you have to do this. Just something I have noticed & that I do here in MN. No need to read more into this than what I said above.
guess what?
nobody cares what you do.
everyone sees that you’re just running away from whatever idiotic point you were originally trying to make.
why bother?
It’s very easy when you’ve been raised to believe that the big invisible man in the sky knows what’s best for you and doesn’t have to explain himself a bit, as the Good Book says.
Dano is an authoritarian personality.
explains everything, IMO.
dano
Oh fuck you, dano.
This idea of undeserved privilege is one, rather minor reason why I prefer conscription military to one where it’s a career choice.
The far more important reason is that military as a career tends to attract authoritarian assholes like dano.
I certainly don’t mean to imply that everyone who has chosen to serve in military is an asshole or authoritarian, there are many Pharyngulites who obviously aren’t.
And I’m of course very privileged, as Finland hasn’t had to defend it’s borders since WWII. I had my eleven months of training, had a few weeks of additional training later on and am extremely unlikely to ever have to go to war.
Perhaps you live in a different part of the U.S. When I have seen someone pay or pay myself there is no ill will but rather just the old I appreciate it. Enough of your comments on me because I really don’t care. You could stretch this thing to 1,000,000 posts on hating me and I do not care. I will still be a Christian who does not hate you, I will still be a Christian buying lunches for servicemen/women & I will still be a Christian who will not belittle you. You have your beliefs or lack there of & I have mine.
“The strongest man on earth is he who stands alone(on this blog)” Henrik Ibsen
That has a nice ring to it
And yet here you are, still posting. You can go away at any time.
You’re actually deluded enough to think that this kind of strength is a virtue?
The MOST DANGEROUS man on earth is he who stands alone.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
But dano is evidently a socialist.
Ing: I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream So I Comment Instead
7 May 2012 at 2:05 pm
Like I said, dano’s reflex is to lick the ass of anyone in a uniform.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that… you know, so long as it’s consensual…
(1) Lie. You’ll be a Christian who “really do(es) hate cowards,” and you’ll blindly leap at the chance to judge someone here that way. Let’s wonder why you didn’t direct a little of that towards the “quite a few Christian lurkers but none willing to stand up for their beliefs” that you’re sure are here.
(2) Great. Whoop-de-doo. I gave an 1891 silver dollar to a student today–his last day at school since he’s going to Tennessee to be in a movie. I doubt anyone here cares, but I won’t get any flak from mentioning it unless I tsk-tskingly tell everyone else what they should do with any 1891 silver dollars they have in their lock boxes.
(3)Oh, you mean no belittling like “meaningless day to day drawn out life with no real end goal in sight”?
(4) Pretty closed-minded for someone who said the following: