Welcome to the world of the bourgeouisie, people! The Pharyngula store (conveniently located in a tab at the top of this window) is now available to take your money and deliver into your hands cheesy QUALITY merchandise. Get a t-shirt! A stickypus! Or in a timely gesture to the War on Christmas, get your very own “Happy Monkey” holiday greeting cards!
(Rebecca Watson action figure not included)
Look how happy he is! You can simultaneously send a non-confrontational, cheerful card to your family and friends, and give the wingnuts apoplexy by going one step beyond “Happy Holidays” and “Seasons Greetings” in delivering non-Christian sentiment!
And wait! There’s more! And I don’t just mean more exclamation points, either! Get your buttons!
AWESOME!
All are now available for order. Limited quantities will be available at Skepticon.
Finally!
Looks like my friends and relatives are getting Happy Monkey cards, as opposed to gifts wrapped in “Happy Fucking Whatever” giftwrap.
I think they’ll like the cards better.
OMG I want that button. RIGHT NOW.
Also, feel free to make other suggestions…I know that last time we talked about this, coffee mugs were common requests.
Yay! Happy Monkey cards for me.
Still no idol of Darwin?
Now that’s what will disappoint the Hamites.
Glen Davidson
Crocoduck ties?
PZ:
I’d like a tote or reusable shopping bag with the Pharyngula cuttlefish on it.
that’s no fucking ‘cuttlefish’.
Come, on, PROFESSOR.
Needs: coffee mugs, tote bags, buttplugs, mousepads, thongs, ballgags, and notepads.
PZ voodoo dolls would be REALLY popular with a certain segment of the population. I’ll even write the sales pitch for you:
“Jab pins in your very own
‘Li’l Heathen PZ’ Voodoo doll and send him endless agonizing mystical suffering!*
*disclaimer: Magic is bullshit.
Squeeeeeeeeeee!
I love the button, but I’d rather have it on a mega-sized coffee mug or a T-shirt. Please pretty please?
PZ Myers brand calamari comes to mind.
Chas:
In 1871, it was described as an eight-armed cuttlefish. Get the fuck off your capslock key.
If I buy both the shirt and button, do I get a bonus set of Ginsu knives?
Ooh! Oooh! I know! Official PZ effigies, guaranteed to catch fire first time, every time! Don’t get caught trying to ceremonial burn a damp or fitfully-burning PZ effigy. The licensed likeness of noted atheist PZ Meyers comes in packs of three, is produced in a carbon neutral facility, and burns with a clean, and bright flame leaving behind no residue. Show that evil intellectual what you think of him and be kind to the environment at the same time!
I second everything that Aquaria just said! I’d especially like the Kawaii design on a T-shirt.
Dead porcupine lapel pins.
It’s spelled bourgeoisie, actually.
That button… I must have it!
Communion wafers.
Crowd sourcing? Good idea.
1. A stuffed toy crockaduck. The one in the banner always looks remarkably cheerful.
2. Some sort of magic Pharyngula symbol for wearing around the neck on a chain. Not coming up with anything at the moment but another crockaduck. For warding off vampires, zombies, werewolves, and xians.
3. Pharyngula themed lawn/garden ornaments.
I’m sure if you waited a few days, you would collect lots of good ideas. The readership has proved itself to be a talented and artistic lot.
and btw, the all-caps ‘professor’ thing is or was a meme around here. Not (just) me being a dick.
@Zinc Avenger – Yes, one should always make sure that one gets the profits from the “anti” merchandise as well.
Almost forgot.
Pharyngula themed Xmas ornaments. Got to have those.
As most know, one of the atheist’s favorite holidays is Xmas, also known as the Winter Solstice or simply, the Happy Holidays.
The angel with a tree top stuck up her rear end is always cute, but sort of trite and clichey. Maybe a cephalopod or crockaduck tree top decoration.
You just have to sign some kind of deal with Leica to make PZ brand range finders. Then you can send a complimentary one to Kw*k…
And the ‘Happy Monkey’ card is just pure genius. It should carry a health warning along the lines of;
As for the button – are levels of concentrated cute-i-tude that high bad for you?
Can I get GOATS ON FIRE scented candles?
PYGMIES + DWARFS miniatures?
Squee! I am totally getting the Happy Monkey cards, It’s always such a bitch finding non-denominational cards for my staff and the investigators I like, this makes it soo much easier! And they will all get a kick out of them.
I don’t suppose anyone is mass producing the knit hat with the tentacles…
Happy Monkey ornaments?
A shrinky dink version would be awesome. :)
bumper stickers/ magnetic bumper stickers/window clings to help us spread the godless heathen tentacled overlord good news to the masses?
The communion wafers one from above was a good one.
Communion crackers that are guaranteed to stay crackers no matter how many magicians mutter magic spells over them.
Comes in chocolate topped and fluorescent candy sprinkled versions.
raven @ 31;
That has given me an idea – Pharyngula brand homeopathic potions of atheism-resistance.
Just get a few stray hairs/dead skin cells/umm… sundry bodily secretions from the odd atheist wandering about teh intertoobs, mix in an outrageously low concentration with water, and sell to gullible theists as a guarenteed immunization from all that nasty godless rationalism.
We would make a fortune, a fortune, I tell you…
Um, that would be all of them.
Sell photos (posters, tee-shirts, whatever) of gruesomely-destroyed brains, with “This is your brain on Chopra.” Or on religion, pick your woo.
There could be quite a line of those.
Glen Davidson
Shipping costs outside the US as currently displayed on the shopping site are a bit of a disincentive … :(
$20 for the t-shirt, and over $86 for shipping????
There must be a cheaper way of getting that beautiful t-shirt to the UK, surely?
When will the Rebecca Watson action figure be available?
Will it talk?
Will an optional accessory be a locked elevator with a “no hitting on” sign across it?
Wow, I really did not want to see Rebecca Watson’s ugly imbecilic mug, and that fake-colored feminist hair…
Offer working PZ Voodoo dolls and let their head explode.
I second ginormous coffee mugs and mousepads!
Okay, and yes, I could use some new grocery bags (or grossery bags, as my nephews have started calling them) too.
Not the cutesy cephalo-design though, please? That always makes me hungry for some reason.
Oh, and Kindle skins! Yeah!
In the first second or so, the button looked like it had a naked PZ on it.
I guess I’m going to hell for having such nasty thoughts.
Michael – Hello! I’m the designated humorless feminist™ for the day, here to tell you that’s not funny.
Because really. Dead horse. Already beaten. Doesn’t need any more.
eric @ 33;
I think that was the exact point that Raven was making – we know that a cracker is just a cracker, it is the other side who think that magic alchemy transmutes it into the body of a long deceased (or possibly mythical) Palestinian carpenter in pursuit of a cannabalistic ritual.
Part of the fun is that there are cerain types of theist who believe that the unholy anti-magic aura of atheists somehow prevents the aforementioned transmutation from taking place. So, to them, atheist-tainted magic-resistant crackers may be a very serious problem. I mean, what if someone slipped one into the communion? Little Jimmy might not get his weekly dose of magic demi-god flesh subsitute!* Oh, teh noes!
At this juncture, you make sure to offer the offended theist a string of Pharyngula brand clutching-pearls**.
* All the goodness of demi-god flesh, but a third of the calories – for the body-conscious fundie.
** Sustainably sourced 100% organic pearls. Hard wearing and highly polished and smoothed for the ultimate clutching experience.
There is a new level of weird.
How about the “Pthulu wants hugs” T-shirt?
@#35 International shipping costs are actually rather inexpensive if you choose USPS instead of UPS or FedEx! The only downside is that there isn’t any tracking available.
“Wow, I really did not want to see Rebecca Watson’s ugly imbecilic mug, and that fake-colored feminist hair…”
OMG, feminist hair! I love it. Will tell my colorist . . . she mixed the color herself, so she’ll be very pleased to know that she chose the color of empowerment.
How ’bout the PZ bobble-head doll?
Or the ever popular black light velvet painting of Octopi playing poker?
Rebecca Watson @ 46;
When I read the whole “fake coloured feminist hair” bit I was a little non-plussed. Hair colouration is a feminist statement all of a sudden? Since when? But then I realised that I shouldn’t concern myself. It is enough to know that hair colour annoys the syggyxs of the world for some reason, which is always a good thing.
It gives you the superpower to point out patriarchal bullshit. Very useful.
*nods sagely*
I was wondering what wart-covered, pus-filled ne’erdowell uttered the remark about “feminist hair” and, lo and behold, it’s none other than Syggy Stardust! Be on the lookout for spyderz from Marz (or feminazis, Islamofascists, and other such bugbears)!
I only saw one shipping option displayed – no other choices available (no USPS and no FedEx either) :(
Maybe UPS is the only option available if you’re looking at the site from outside the US?
I’d like t-shirts, mousepads, cards etc. featuring the cracker in the trash picture.
Great. One button please (kachang) OK thx bye .
The semiotics of hair is a sadly under-researched field.
Could the Pharyngula store sell a feminist wig, for us dudes who will never achieve the real thing?
I second the ideas of making dolls, plushies specifically. Or pillows.
I’ve been looking for skeptic/atheist earings. Would love squidish somthings for my ears. Plus I want the Pharyngula Kawaii Button Logo on a coffee mug paleeze.
Speaking of your piccy, Rebecca, love the glasses!
Especially those of us who’ve lost our own hair? Feminist-colored scalp doesn’t have the same mojo.
Then I’m not interested. I want a Rebecca Watson action figure to put next to my Kaiser Wilhelm II, Yoda, Sir Donald Bradman and Pope Gregory the Great action figures.
Can confirm that 86 USD is the shipping price to the UK, and no alternative exists. You ain’t gonna sell many of those to us Brits…
Speaking of the War on Christmas, the Australians are off to an excellent start with the advertisements in Episode 8 of “The Gruen Planet” (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/comedy) I have no idea if the video is served to machines outside Australia though; once upon a time it wasn’t restricted but I was in Europe the past year and I couldn’t watch anything then (not even an option for a paid subscription).
Is there a special shampoo I should be using on feminist hair? Or would the regular stuff work?
I’m not seeing the tab. Is it just me?
Must…buy…button…
Please please please put that on a travel coffee mug. And a mousepad. And an iPad skin. And a cross stitch pattern.
@#51: “Maybe UPS is the only option available if you’re looking at the site from outside the US?”
How weird! That’s not the case, because we have tons of international orders, including those going to Canada. I heard from one other person once before who asked why rates were so high, but when I pointed out the USPS rates she checked again, saw it, and placed the order with no problem.
Are you ordering a large amount? The only thing I can think of is if it’s such a heavy order that USPS can’t carry it, but that’s honestly never happened before. If you want more detailed help, email [email protected] and we’ll see what we can do!
@60: We have several packages going to the UK via USPS at cheapo rates. I had another thought of why that might happen…maybe USPS’s servers get overloaded or something, and their rates don’t display. Maybe try refreshing?
In the meanwhile, I’ll talk to the e-commerce site to see if they can track down the problem.
Oh and yes, Squidmas decorations too! I would love to top my tree with a shimmering cephlapod with arms-a-waving Kali style.
I’m a little slow with my Katakana translator, but that looks way more like “pharynbura” than “pharyngura” to me (recognizing that “r” is as close as they get to “l”).
Can anyone with more knowledge of Japanese tell me what I did wrong?
http://www.whiteagle.net/jap/
I really want a pink stickypus now.
So since you were talking about bad billboard designs recently I can’t help but mention the very poorly executed banner for your store. Awesome idea, not-so-awesome drawing/hideous magenta.
MRA: Waiter, there’s a feminist hair in my soup.
Waiter: Oh, sorry sir, but how do you know it’s a feminist hair?
MRA: Well it must be because I’m unable to guzzle this soup like a real man.
For the Spanish market, can I suggest a T-shirt with an octopus and the words “WE WON’T FORGET”
MikeM, no, it’s definitely “farinGura”. In “farinBura”, the next-to-last character would be the same as the first, but with an added ” mark.
Hey, I’m in New Zealand and had no issues with the shipping. Shirt plus button, three USPS choices with the cheapest being only $9.64. I didn’t confirm the order because I’d rather wait for the Kawaii shirt! :D
I was going to suggest the PZ-on-a-squid vs Ham-on-a-dinosaur from here, but it appears that Jen’s already got that on a shirt.
Perhaps some of the banner art from the old site, like Graemme Gilmann’s tentacle-bearded Myers?
Well, I think that was the last straw.
Maybe it is all fine for the rest of you guys, probably easy to buy, but I started reading this blog year and years ago because the lack of the huge amount of commercial rubbish on other blogs, the quality of postings and interesting affairs in general, but you know what?
Now this blog has become a pathetic joke, now it is rare to check this site and not run into drivel. Now the esteemed Mr Myers, when he made a name for himself and have a large amount of readers, seem to decide to sell out his blog. I mean atleast 1/1000 would buy something from the Myers shop making him a lot of money, which is what it is all about now, money money money.
So ironic seeing him complaining about people like Kent Hovind and Ken Ham when Mr Myers is just the same, it is all about the money and now he is rolling it in.
And it is so funny to see him doing it trying to be quiet and most of you, similar to Creationist, cant see anything wrong, sad and pathetic but most of you Myers followers are not much different from the Creationist out there, blind and not very bright. Oh, we need to send some more Money, you didn’t forget this week did you?
Pathetic indeed.
Bob
@72 Thanks for testing the int’l shipping! Glad it worked for you even though you didn’t complete. :) FYI the kawaii illustration probably won’t be on a shirt anytime soon, though we may be putting it on other things in the next few months.
This is truly an historic event! I did pay more for shipping than the item. Granted, it was just the Kawaii pin… and the shipping was only $2 something to the UK… and I really wanted it… so my gripe is far outweighed by how excited I am to finally get something.
Sitting here in Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv, with a couple at the table next to me alternating between bitching loudly about their luggage not been checked all the way through to DC and singing songs about Jesus.
Not relevant, obviously. I just wanted to get that out there. I’m sure I’ll be fine after a few more glasses of wine.
Wait, is there an open thread around here somewhere?
Your concern is noted.
Speaking of commercial rubbish, I almost suggested just copying the religions.
Sell atheist afterlives. There would be multiple levels depending on how much time and money you kick in.
Sell superpowers. A lot of xian sects grant you superpowers to speak for the gods, battle demons, attract angels, raise the dead, cure illnesses, and so on.
Then I realized that Nintendo, Sony Playstation, the gaming industry, and the Scientologists are already doing that. Lot of competition and a tough market there.
No officially sanctioned PZ Beard yet?
Some of us can’t grow a “proper one.”
Well, if you’re going to copy religions, sell clerical titles. For US$20, get a certificate declaring that you’re a bishop of atheism; for US$50, you get to be a pope.
Has anyone sent one (or a hundred) of these to Bill O’Reilly yet? Think how cute he would look decrying them to all the FOX viewers. Who knows – this might even be PZ’s chance to go on his show and really stir up a hornet’s nest!
Great advertising idea.
Don’t forget Robertson’s 700 club, the Trinity Broadcasting Network, the Mormon channels, and all of the Televangelists.
*Dr. But at least you got the Myers part right.
Yes. This site attracts academics and students, who are rolling in dough.
You do understand that hosting websites takes money, yes? And that the money to do so comes out of the bloggers’ pockets, yes? And that anyone who has ever made something and sold it is trying to recoup their investments of time and supplies, yes?
Of course. Why, I bet he’s making a whole $2 or so off of each t-shirt, and maybe $1.50 off of each set of cards. At this rate, he’ll have a Lexus in no time!
Yes, putting a tab right at the top of the page, and having at least three separate posts about it, the first asking what readers would think of the concept, then asking for ideas on what people want, and then telling them it’s available, is keeping it reeeeal quiet.
Every week? I’m pretty sure that Happy Monkey cards don’t need to be mailed out weekly.
Seriously. PZ needs to contact C0ct0pus about marketing. C0ct0pus has your market, and he has nailed it (Over and over again. Enough to get a kid out of the deal!)
Actually, I’m sorry this wasn’t in the description, but by ordering one set of Happy Monkey cards you enter into a contract in which you agree to buy a set of happy monkey cards every week for the rest of your life and if you skip a week you’re sent to Monkey Hell.
Eh, Monkey Hell’s not so bad, once you get used to the poop.
OMG my Kawaii button! I’ve totally got wet knickers from this.
Thanks PZ, you’ve made my day, and GL @ Skepticon!
OT, but I’ve already sold my soul to at least 3 people, possibly more back in high school. Got $20 once!
Oh Bob, I’m crying so much for you that tears are dripping into my coñac and my cigar has gone all soggy. The esteemed Mr. Myers has earned a title and it is common courtesy to address such people by that title, therefore, Professor Myers.
Also, English is my second language, but I know enough to know that one does not capitalize an common noun in the middle of a sentence.
I assume you are an adult person who has a certain amount of control over your own actions. If so, you can,(I believe the correct term is) fuck off.
Reciba un respetuoso salud
No love for Isaac Newton? It is his birthday coming up after all.
Little prism pendants maybe?
I’ll miss you. Occasionally. Until my aim improves.
Hmpf. Well, as long as it’s on auto-delivery so I don’t have to type in my address every week, I guess.
I want a tee shirt, but those are all too small. :(
Cutie-pus on a coffee mug, please.
–
Oh, dear. Your distress so moved my manservant that for a few minutes he was unable to click the mouse to scroll down the page so that I could compose a response.
A Rebecca Watson Action Figure? Great idea. After all, there is already a Franc Hoggle action figure: http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRu8mArG_6NseptzZvYHL46-r_Kc6gsjBBaigdQf-8BpvKQFchQ
I fucking love the miracle magnet!
As soon as the Kawaii design is on a t-shirt, you have my money, sir!
Carlie:
¡Hostia! Your Manservant has emotions? Not good I tell you.
(The coñac was 7€ a bottle and the cigars are 15€ for a pack of 5)
Bob: What I find pathetic is your command of the language and your apathy toward sweet merch.
I want a starfart commemorative plate.
If you actually cared about being correct, you wouldn’t be a conservative.
Regular ceramic, or metal, coffee mugs are fine. But I need a serious mug for my every day coffee dosage. It has to be plastic so it can be dropped and abused, LDPE (#4) is ideal. It has to have a large handle that allows three or four fingers. Big so I can get the job done efficiently. My favorite now is 12 ounces (375ml) with a good 3/4″ (20mm) to spare so a knocked hand doesn’t spill much. Three or four of those starts a morning off right. It has to be insulated so the coffee stays hot. It also needs to be sturdy enough to grip firmly without distorting. It must be microwavable so I can reheat day-old coffee, make (God forbid) instant coffee from tap water, heat up soup or cocoa.
Get the structure and functionality right and either the ‘Happy Monkey’ or ‘Pharyngula Cuttlefish’ logo will do.
Used to be you could get these at most gas stations for $4, free if you filled it with generic coffee, and paid $4. I’ve had mine, used it almost every day, for over a decade. I’d pay $7 or $8, for a ‘Pharyngula Cuttlefish’ version. $10 if a couple bucks was going to a good cause.
What in our wonderful cosmos is the “bourgeoiusie”? Looks Gallic.
That’s a sin, you know.
Tell that to the Redhead. Oh, and protect your spleen, a favorite target of the Kninja Knitters. ;)
Mr Myers have truly got you all, so sad indeed. You become completely sold on him, your lord Mr Myers, oh, sorry, I have to address him as Lord Myers? Professor Myers?
I do not think so, sorry.
Mr Myers is a pathetic nobody squeezing money out of ignorant fools (ie; you), whiles making them verbally protect him, it is just sad and I would certainly not address him as “professor” as this is, for me, a word of respect, and Myers is just pathetic for loving money more then ethics. Sure, perhaps I should be impressed that he can get so many ignorant people to follow him without getting caught, but, no, there is to many idiots on the internet and when bright people like me come and point it out, obviously he gets saved by his followers, so sad and pathetic.
Atheist are not much different from Creationists.
God Bless, I will truly pray for you ignorant fools.
Bob
But Bob, did you see Stickypus? Seriously, he’s the world’s greatest cephalopod.
Is there a crucifix stuck in your fucking brain, asshole?
@ Rebecca Watson #65 and 66 – thank you for that, will check again (it was just one t-shirt, honest! :-) )
Oh, and I bet squidly earrings would look great.
Very different. Here is the evidence for evolution. Here is the evidence for creationism. See the difference?
Larry #47 – “PZ bobblehead.”
Yes! I want one NOW!
Bob Stevensson wrote:
A busted 5-watt incadescent bulb would be brighter than you, Bob. Maybe next time you’re on your knees begging Jesus to notice you you should ask him to provide you with a fully functioning brain rather than the faulty piece of shit you’ve got now.
Only if you’re about as perceptive as a box of Velveeta.
You’re lucky I’ve got a good irony meter, or I’d be sending you a bill for a new one. Say, why don’t you make a voodoo doll of PZ and stick pins in it instead; it’s just as likely to do any good – given your pissant god is a just a figment of your imagination.
It appears Ol’ Bobby is feeling all butthurt about something or other not being like The Good Old Days™. He’s probably annoyed because production of the Rebecca Watson action figure is unaccountably delayed. Anyway, he promised to pray for us, so let’s all wish him a merry Fuck You Bob to send him on his way.
Ah, you’re one of those. Thanks for sharing your opinions, Chris. We’re all the better for it.
OK, a little fun with what PZ should offer. Souvenir Lilac Berets of the Pullet Patrol™. iPods loaded with tunes from Janine, Rev. BDC, Rorschach, Chas., etc. T-shirts and sweatshirts of the Pharyngula Saloon and Spanking Parlor, (Patricia, Princess of Pullets, Proprietor), with the intercontinental trebuchet going off behind the establishment. Popcornz, grog, and swill for the non-regulars (heh-heh-heh). Pictures of the Kninja Knitters in action against MRA types…dang, that’s just a few ladies of indeterminate age sitting on a park bench, and a bunch of guys around them clutching their idea of manhood.
Thank you Chris, I think you made my point even.
Did you notice that you supplied critique which caused immediate blind defense? I may not agree with you on certain issues, but I am always open to talk about it and enjoy sharing both knowledge and opinions.
The rest of the gang seem to have a different view, it seems you should take in anything you are told without criticism or opinion. Just saying here, that is not what I consider a good thing and myself consider your own judgements fine and enjoy talking about it with you rather then telling you to “Fuck O**”…
But that is just me, stupid Bob, I know (And no, it is not Bobby).
Oh, I’m sure you can, slugger. But given your thoughts on opinions in general, and mine on yours, I really wonder why you would offer to do so.
If you were as smart as you’ve convinced yourself you are, you wouldn’t need to ask that question.
Chris, Chris, Chris: what are you always telling us about opinions?
We all did? You’re sure about that?
Stick to neural network implementations, Chris. I have no idea whether you’re very knowledgeable about them, but you can’t possibly be any less knowledgeable than you seem to be about pretty much everything else.
Aw, Chris; you’ve got a fan. Perhaps you and Bobby can talk about the arguments against religion you both went through at 14.
That’s why I called you “asshole”, Bobby.
Rebecca, please forgive the personal remark, but I LOVE your ‘feminist hair’ and especially the fact that it matches your glasses. Your beautician is an artist.
Must say, things have changed. Back in the 50’s and 60’s, ‘feminist hair’ was an uncombed, unwashed mass screwed up carelessly into an unbecoming knot so as to snarl in the face of society’s demand that women be decorative. I think it’s a definite advance that feminists no longer have to be grimly humorless, obsessive or aggressively unattractive. The misogynists who resent feminists seem capable of taking up the slack.
I would love to see t-shirts or tote bags with the various Phyrangula banners across them, or note cards with the artwork from the banners. Definitely mugs, magnets, mouse pads.
A plush octopus doing the clenched-tentacle salute.
A crocoduck hand puppet.
A “Go fuck a dead porcupine” stamp with included ink pad.
A T-shirt with a picture of a cuttlefish “walking” on its tentacles, preferably in the act of sneaking up on a shrimp, like in that video PZ posted.
Where do the profits go?
I like your blog and all, but I’m a lot more likely to buy something if proceeds go to a worthy cause. :)
Bob Stevensson, a pissant, wrote:
Why don’t you go hassle those closed-minded dogmatists amongst mathematicians who just won’t accept different views on what 2+2 equals? See how they respond to criticism and ‘opinions’.
Tis:
The first batch had insufficiently feminist hair.
No. That’s why I quoted your response line by line, and my responses to each.
Also, if I thought you “don’t know anything”, I would have written that. I clearly suggested that you may know something about neural network implementations.
Are you this sloppy in your programming?
You’re sounding slightly smarter already. I hope you take this new-found care and attention to your neural network implementations.
You’re of course welcome to interpret what I write in whatever manner you find most comfortable.
And, yes: I don’t like you. And I think you know a lot less than you think you do.
You’re the one mistaking correlation for causality; not me.
There you go again; sharing these opinions of yours. Why?
Nevermind my why?
I stopped caring after your first comment.
As soon as I locate someone who cares, I’ll let them know. I suggest you hold your breath in the meantime.
PTI:
:laughs: I’d go for that, even though such a thing could turn into a weapon in any given Pharyngulite’s hands. ;D
Don’t worry. The Pharyngula e-store should be selling Indulgences soon. All one has to do is go to “confession” and pay a not so nomimal fee.
Speaking of pathetic money grubbing nobodies, could we interest you in a:
Free Ticket to Heaven (some charges may apply)
A Get out of Hell Free card (Hell was created by the guy who runs heaven. It’s a protection racket but it’s a good protection racket.
The opportunity to support multi-millionaire Televangelists.
The opportunity to support billionaire vaguely humanoid toads with brains the size of walnuts.
The opportunity to overthrow the US government and live in the Dark Ages.
Various superpowers including but not limited to healing the sick, raising the dead, moving mountains, fighting demons, pretending to talk for the gods, immunity from poisons and venomous animals, and talking in all languages. (Sainthood is extra and not cheap. Among other things, you have to die first.)
Sounds like you went with the Fakes and Frauds and paid too much anyway. All supernatural merchandise at atheist online stores is just as good as the xian ones and a lot less expensive.
He’s Department Head, 11 month contract, and a book coming out. And you think administration isn’t working…
Me want….everything
Chris wrote:
I was referring to the non-existence of god. If your fanboy Bobby has the means to demonstrate PZ is wrong about this, he should act upon it.
I doubt if Chris is a very good programmer.
He’s wasted a huge number of electrons and photons so far to say exactly nothing significant. Just really lame insults.
His program to add 2 + 2 probably is about the size of an encyclopedia and has a runtime around the projected age of the universe.
He isn’t even a very good troll. Boring.
How about those atheists arguments you went through in your head at age 14. Which I don’t believe for a second since you seem rather stupid. Amuse us, what are they?
Won’t get an answer. Probably Argument from Design, the Fake Trilemma, voices in his head, the empty tomb, and Kalam first cause.
You aren’t a programmer. A program to add numbers is really simple and doesn’t take much.
BTW, no one should click on any links from the trolls. They are likely to lead to malware sites.
The fundie trolls have done this before and IIRC, one of them might have used the nym “Chris”. It’s a xian thing.
Chris wrote:
Uh, no. Bobby claimed that people here were wrong for uncritically accepting what PZ writes, without demonstrating why and/or how; on that level my analogy holds.
Wow. Python. I’m impressed. I’m especially impressed with all the comments describing exactly what the next line of code is supposed to do. That’s incredibly … redundant.
But Python. I’m impressed. I hope they let you play with a real programming language one day.
Hey.. It is Winter!
Long sleeved Tee Shirts!
No answer. Trolls are so predictable.
This troll is too boring to bother with.
“”” He’s Department Head, 11 month contract, and a book coming out. “””
Hahahaha, so funny.
Here you guys are defending innocent Lord Myers, and sure, you should always be behind your savior, protect him and stand in the way of the bullet, anything he says is right, he is your master right?
But then what? Now when the loser has a huge fan base, he decides to “write a book” and publish knowing that these blind ignorant fools will of course buy it, they have to, the master is writing a book, the wisdom he can give you.
Same time he is bashing Ken Ham and Hovind for tricking money out of people whiles you picking up your visa card to pay for the order. The irony, it is just so good that it is sad, that you can not see it, it is so clear, infront of you, and you are so blind, so sad. :(
Bob
Okay, Chris, we get it. You’re a mediocre programmer who can speak the language good. Plus, like your buddy Bobby, you appear to be despondent that the Rebecca Watson action figure* is still unavailable.
*Now with new, improved, feminist hair. Matching glasses at no extra cost.
Chris:
Dude, I know both R and Python. I’ve used ’em both for business analytics. Your coding is second-rate at best (the redundant and effectively useless comments being merely one sign of this).
Python’s a LISP wanna-be.
Fuck you. I don’t take orders from second-rate coders. I know my Apache install is borked. It’s been that way for a couple of days, and I’m too fucking lazy to fix it.
Are these objets d’art made in China by atheists workers ?
Bobby Stevensson, still a pissant, wrote:
If that’s true, you’d be able to cite the exact words of the people expressing that sentiment, wouldn’t you? Well, go ahead Bobby – cite them. I dare you.
How exactly can a loser have a huge fan base? You’d better rethink that one, Bobby.
Oh, okay. Obviously English isn’t your first language. I didn’t realise that before; I just thought you were a fucking idiot with limited mental capacity.
Well you just admitted you are stupid and uneducated. But we already knew that.
Those are all ancient fallacies that no one sensible takes seriously, including a lot of the smarter xians.
Boring, dealing with an idiot.
Chris:
What, you don’t like beer?
Where are the bobble head dolls?
Oi! Nigel! Back off on the python dissing!
Stupid trolls breathe air, too. Going all contrarian could turn you blue, if you don’t watch out.
Chris wrote:
Really? Which ones, exactly?
Alethea:
For you, OK. I don’t mind Python. I just find that people who know a smidgen of Python think they’re great programmers, when in fact they suck. It’s something I’ve seen with folks who use Excel, or discovered Visual BASIC at a young age, or “programmed” MUDs. People who know what they’re doing can do great things with Python.
Chris just doesn’t look like one of ’em.
No, “money”, it isn’t a good point. But please make another inane comment. Then the Three Post Rule will have been fulfilled and I can go all Bobby Stevensson on you.
BTW, chris and the trolls are obviously PZ Myers haters.
Routine, they are legion.
But that isn’t their real agenda. They are atheist haters and religious kooks. The three fundie sacraments are lies, hate, and hypocrisy.
They have to hate someone
FWIW, attacking PZ Myers isn’t going to make your nonexistent gods poof into existence. Your logic isn’t very good.
And if your magic cosmic ghosts really existed, they wouldn’t need a few random troll’s to help out. The xian god once (supposedly) genocided almost all humans. These days he is struggling to appear on torillas.
Oh yes, that one’s familiar. I’ve fixed some god-awful code in my day. Academics are the worst, they have the delusion that just because they know maths or stats, that they can write code. Python and R are both very popular for that.
Damn, Chris, for a pompous asshole you’re really mediocre. But mediocrity seems to be your specialty.
Chris:
Oh, you’re so cute when you are trying to be scathing.
Uhm, I’m pretty sure I know when my install broke. It happened a couple of days ago when upgrading my Ubuntu install. Then we had a lightening storm on Monday that took the power out while I was working on it, and I said “Fuck it.”
But whatever. You are the one who knows it all. I bow to your superior knowledge.
Chris wrote:
And that’s why there’s no such thing as religious believers anywhere in the world, right?
Chris @ 116;
If you truly find Pharyngula so redundant, the level of debate so beneath your apparently exalted intellect, then why stay here at all? The internet is a rather big (virtual) space, or so I hear. I am sure you will be able to find an environment more conducive to your rarified tastes somewhere else, and we will go back to discussing those things that you allegedly worked out at fourteen. Everybody wins, and no one feels the need to invite you to engage in carnal relations with a decaying porcupine. Not a bad outcome, all round.
—————————————————————-
Bob Stevensson @ 106;
Has it occurred to you that perhaps many of us agree with him because his arguments make sense, and we find that persuasive? No slavish devotion required – that’s more of a religious thing.
I find it highly amusing that you seem to be of the opinion that PZ is some kind of online mogul. I don’t think that blogging pays quite so well as you think it does. PZ posts on Pharyngula, for the large part, about social, cultural, scientific and political issues that matter to him – it is his very sense of ethics that informs his desire to maintain the blog at all.
Oh, the irony – it burns. Tell me, is it difficult to fit that swollen head of yours through average sized doors?
Well, there is the whole not believing in god thing that we do – just a detail really. And there is the fact that creationists are at war with reality, determined to cling on to their irrational delusions in the face of mountains of evidence in support of Evolutionary Theory, whereas atheist rationalists simply refuse to confer belief on a magic man in the sky without evidence.
So really, the differences are rather glaring to anyone who actually bothers to pay attention and isn’t trying to deliberately deploy a false equivalency to bolster an extremely weak argument.
Pray for us, bless us, hex us, invoke Satan/Seth/Kali to curse us – it is all the same to us; just meaningless incantations mumbled by the unfortunate sufferers of a particularly virulent form of socially communicable delusion.
Chris:
What else is a personal beer blog for? Writing about wine? Or about how awesome of a coder you are?
Are you this tedious in real life too, or do you have friends?
Want! Forcing myself to wait a week so I don’t spend too much.
Bob is a godbot. ‘Nuff said.
Chris is a computer programmer. Specifically, he seems to be one of those who thinks that because he understands a couple of programming languages that he understands THE UNIVERSE. No, sorry buddy. Not even close.
Fuck you and the
horsedonkey you rode in on. Admin work isn’t any easier at small colleges than large ones; hell, it’s often a lot harder, because personalities end up playing such a big role in small departments and there isn’t any cushion in the budget and regulations and people. Know what happens at third-tier colleges? You get people who are there with sweat and blood, the ones whose families never thought they could even go to college because no one in their family ever had before and they’re scared shitless and think they won’t ever make it through but they do it anyway. I’ve taught undergrads at R-1 top schools and at third tier colleges, and I’ll take the third tier any day. They fucking care about their education and they actually work for it.In other words, you’re bragging that you’re a more than mediocre asshole. You’re not putting out much effort here, because your mediocrity is just shining through.
I got my undergraduate degree from a third tier college and my graduate degree from Harvard. All my teachers at the third tier college were PhD faculty. I was a TA teaching undergrads at Harvard. From what I saw at both schools, I got a better undergraduate education at the University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh than the undergrads at Harvard got.
Chris @ 176;
I think that even the most generous observer would have some difficulty characterizing any of your posts as charitable or magnaminious. Mostly, you have talked about programming languages, complained about pop ups on the site, made snide remarks about PZ, and applied a very broad brush indeed in a bid to impugn the intellect of most (if not all) the other commenters here.
You seem to have no interest in actually saying anything that relates to the thread itself, so I wonder – what motive could you possibly have for posting here, other than to troll the thread? Since you seem to be of the opinion that your level of sophistication is somewhat higher than that of the rest of us, shouldn’t such behaviour be beneath you?
“money” is boring. At least Chris the Mediocre is making a mediocre try at being a troll.
Comment by money blocked. [unkill][show comment]
money wrote:
Hmm, I’m going to go with Atlas Shrugged. What does anyone else think this ‘one book’ is going to turn out to be?
Brownian, #101
If you were worried about being right, ideology wouldn’t matter at all.
Talk about what, Chris? Shall we talk about your mediocre programming? Or are you mediocre in other fields as well?
And you have absolutely no idea what the time commitments are of a person doing admin at a college, especially one who has shifted more to science communication. Honestly, Chris, you’re trying to talk to a lot of people here who have a lot of experience in academia. Trying to use buzzwords like “third-tier” and acting as though a publication record is the entirety of a CV is really just indicating to us how deficient you are in understanding anything outside of your little computer box.
The Bible, I bet.
[meta]
Chris, you’re trolling.
(You are also incompetent, if you see pop-up ads)
“It must be microwavable so I can reheat day-old coffee”
“That’s a sin, you know.”
Making instant coffee is a sin. Drinking it, less of one. Let those without sin cast the first … stay decaffeinated.
Reheating day old coffee is … an accommodation. I consider it recycling. Think of all the un-caffinated children in … I don’t know … Salt Lake City. Won’t someone think of the children?
Bob Stevensson, #106
We invented English composition for a reason you know.
Prey tell where is the tab at the top of the window?
So the mediocrity named Chris isn’t aware of Adblocker? But he was better than 19 people and not as good as five others in some test which supposedly means something or other to mediocre people.
Mediocre Chris, I’m not a programmer but I have ALL the ads here blocked using a Firefox add-on. I guess I passed that test better than you did.
Chris,
Against my better judgement, I’ll tell you what else marks your code as mediocre.
First, you bury important information in your code, such as the names of your training sets. Someone trying to figure out how to use your code has to dig through the code just to find out what names the input files need. These should be defined at the top of the code, where it’s easy to see, and easy to modify.
This leads to the second problem: no command-line help. Any user that isn’t you has to find a supporting document, read through the code, or Just Know™. There should be a command-line switch for help, and a decent, well-written help output.
Third, your command-line parsing is static, rather than using a nice command-line parsing library like optparse. While you only parse two mutually-exclusive options (prepare and test), if you add features in the future, you’ll have to retrofit the whole damned thing. Better to start with a command line parser. For instance, you’d be better off making your input files a command-line parameter, with defaults (which are documented in your help output).
Fourth, it isn’t just your redundant comments. Your offhand comment about Knuth indicates you have no fucking idea what comments are for. Knuth knows how to comment his code; and believe me, he doesn’t just put a comment above a line saying exactly the same thing the code says. His comments tell you what the program does, and how it does it, and more importantly, why.
Your style of comment interferes with the code. It interrupts the reading of your code. It’s like being at the bar listening to the guy who says each line of a joke, then has to repeat it, and once getting to the punchline (which is invariably unfunny), repeats that a couple more times.
There’re other things: the printed output is not descriptive, your variable names are generally ill-thought-out (though better than many amateur programmers, I have to say), and your program flow would be better served with a prepare object and a test object. But, you’re not using Python as an OO language, but as a procedural one, so you’re not really writing very good Python to start with. While Python is perfectly serviceable as a procedural language, it might as well be Perl at that point.
There are other problems as well, but I’ve given you enough to chew on for a while.
Which means you don’t much surging. Pop-up ads are ubiquitous.
Next, Chris is going to tell us his dad can beat up my dad and his dick is longer than mine, so there, nyah!
Chris:
You asked what marked you as a mediocre coder. I pointed out several things. Several. But even if you didn’t write it for the general public, if you ever plan on using it again, you’ll be the general public at that point.
Nitwit.
Then why the fuck did you post it as something of which you’re proud? It’s something any decent tenth-grade coder could write.
Chris:
Uhm, no. The point of my post is that the code you posted to astonish us is the product of a mediocre coder. I mentioned optparse once.
You don’t really read for comprehension much, do you?
money @ 183;
A common enough occurrance, I admit, but I do not think it is the case here.
And how much money does PZ make from the site ‘per hit’? If it is anything like pretty much every other such site on the internet, a tiny fraction of a cent. I invite you to reconsider the mathematics of this particular equation. Deduct the costs that go into maintaining the blog and take into account the time and effort he has to put into it, and the returns are hardly of Donald Trump magnitudes.
So… you think that a person has to publish a body of scientific papers on a topic before they are entitled to hold any kind of opinion on it? Really? You honestly think that a person cannot discuss an issue and put forward an opinion without a formal academic history in all related fields? You really are taking the Courtier’s Reply to a whole new level.
You are seriosly claiming that you could ‘trump’ all PZ’s knowledge in his own field using one book. Are you sure you want to make such a spectacularly foolish assertion? You do know that that isn’t how academic sourcing works, right?
If you are referring to the broader religious topics that PZ addresses, then you are in an even weaker position. Produce all the feeble tomes of religious apologia you like. Wheel out all the tired old unevidenced, presuppositionalist, confirmation bias-riddled arguments you like. We have seen them all before, and PZ has demolished them all before. If you want to go tome-to-tome, if you will forgive the awful pun, then I will see any book of religious apologia you care to dredge up, and I will raise you one God Delusion or Religion Poisons Everything.
Come now, surely you can do better than this…
normw:
I’m a predator, not prey, but I shall tell you nonetheless.
Go to the very top of the page.
Look at the blue tabs therein, and see the label on the last one.
Here, I’ll show the sequence you seek, and emphasise the item in question:
FTBAdvertise
Privacy Policy
About
Dungeon
Mollies
→ Shop ←
Chris:
I said your code was about the level of several decent 10th-grade programmers I’ve known. Feeding data into a neural net that someone built for you isn’t really that stupendous of a feat.
Uhm, what’re you talking about? First, I never once said what my occupation was. Second, I don’t recall putting on my blog that I’m in a managerial position.
‘Tis,
But if he did he would be wrong, because my dad can beat up everyone’s dads and my weewee is so long I have problems leaving my chair. Honest.
Louis
P.S. Attention all haters, people not interested in Pharyngu-Merch, trolls and sundry dissenters: If the idea of PZ marketing any aspect of his successful blog online, as many others are wont to do, bothers you in some fashion then I have a simple solution for you:
Do not buy anything.
There you go. Problem solved. No need to thank me.
Those people who both want to buy something and have the means to do so are also free to do as they wish. Gosh, it’s almost like there was no compulsion to buy any of this stuff or something. Wow!
Hmmm… I am not sure where that came from. I blame posting at 2:30AM over here in the Uk. Clearly the old noggin isn’t working at full capacity.
Nigel the Bold, #172
Could you please fix the code? Thank you.
BTW, it downloaded as a PDF file to my machine. Is my immortal soul in peril?
Chris:
There’s a difference between your opinion that it’s not mediocre, and that actual facts. I demonstrated with several concrete examples why it is mediocre (including, but not limited to, style and structure). You haven’t even tried to refute my examples. Instead, you merely say, “It’s not mediocre.”
But really, my little Dunning-Kruger snowflake, the code really isn’t that good. It might accomplish what you want, but parsing data sets and feeding them into an analyzer isn’t that impressive.
Wowbagger:
The Secret. Or whatever the name of that particular piece of crap with all the LOA stuff in it was called.
Wait, maybe we’ll go back to quantum tomatoes and dog piss with quantum tomato disintegrating power!
Chris:
Uhm, who do you think I am? I’ll give you a hint: just because I host a website doesn’t mean I write everything for it.
Also, your stalking is getting kinda creepy, even though it turns out your just as bad at that as you are at coding.
Wowbagger, Madman of Insleyfarne @ 187;
Yes, money sounds a little like a Ran-droid to me too.
As to the reading list, whatever this book of cosmic ‘wisdom’ turns out ot be, I feel that appropriate titles might include; The Childrens’ Bumper Book of Goddidit, The Idiot’s Guide to Theology or possibly How to make a Fool of Yourself on the Internet in Five Easy Steps…
Chris:
That’s right, Chris. You did better than me in a contest in which I did not participate.
That certainly makes you better than me.
Gregory:
Just put it down to spelling, like aluminium rather than aluminum. ;)
Aaaaanyway, I think the shop needs more tentacles. And bumper-stickers.
I like it. I really really like it.
Nigel:
Creepy Chris seems to be utterly desperate for a cookie, Nigel. I’d toss one down the nearest well and tell him to go get it.
Nigel, great job trolling the troll. We are all most entertained.
Caine, Fleur du Mal @ 226;
Oh, I don’t think I would be able to get away with that, even with the differences in spelling conventions across the pond in dear old Blighty.
Besides, aluminium is the only proper way to pronounce the word in any case…
*runs*
Then why did you write so many comments in the program? Surely you can read your own code without a comment telling you what your own code does. Or are you so mediocre you need a hint or two to figure out what you wrote?
Where’s the PZ-T?
I have one. Nobody around here ‘gets’ it, of course. I thought about wearing it to a skeptic/atheist/humanist convention where PZ will be speaking, but I was afraid it would look kinda creepy-presumptuous-fan-ish.
Now, however, there is an actual Pharyngula store so it presumably wouldn’t mark me as quite as weird. It’s an interesting shirt; very clever. However, its purchase doesn’t help PZ get rich, rich rich.
Maybe he could bring it over.
Nigel:
Yes, more tentacles. My favourite tentacles were done by a very talented person who sometimes comments here, Corvus tristis. Her tentacle pattern is free to use, and I’d love to see her tentacles done on a tote or shopping bag. Or a coffee mug, or…
Anyway, these are the tentacles, called From the Depths. I’ve stitched these on a pillow and a card, they are fabulous. I’m sure she’d be willing to work something out with the Pharyngula shop.
Caine:
I don’t know about cookies, but I’ve been drinking some Peanut Butter Cup Porter tonight. I’ve had a few too many (which I think is all of them after the fourth one). Or just the right amount.
Probably too much, as I got derailed by a mediocre, highly-defensive troll. But it’s so much fun. And the theists just don’t last like they used to.
Hey! Now, that’s an idea for the store. A theist that doesn’t wear out after a couple of growls and a small list of rational arguments. A Never-ending God-stopper!
Bob@106, Hey Bob, here’s a thought, If you don’t like the idea of a Pharyngula store DON’T GO THERE. If you go to the store and don’t like the merchandise DON’T BUY ANYTHING. Simple.
My challenge: quotes from Hitler and Rand on politics/capitalism/individuals/society – can people identify the author/speaker?
JediBear:
Thanks! I was highly entertained, but when Chris’s hyper-defensiveness kicked into overdrive, I realized his tedium was probably stifling other, far more productive, discussion.
Like the nature of hemorrhoids, or why generally disgusting things are so fascinating (yeah, I’m looking at you, slime mold).
Wife is all in. We have this monkey thing anyway so.
Happy monkey to all my friends and family.
Silly Brits, they don’t even know their special spelling of the metal is alumininininininininium. Their spelling of other metals like iroun and silvre is strange to writers of English. :-þ
I still think we need Pharyngula beer pints.
Fantastic pwnage by Nigel.
Caine:
Oh, now those are wonderful. Stuff like that makes me wish I’d inherited my mom’s artistic talent.
Happy monkey to you too. May your fangs be sharp and your coat sniny.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
Seconded! And I raise my non-tentacled pint in your direction, wishing it was just a bit more Elder-Goddish.
Maybe it could have Benjamin Franklin’s oft-misquoted, “Beer is proof that Cthulhu loves you, and plans to eat you first.”
mythusmage:
Okay. It’ll have to wait until tomorrow, but I’ll bring my woefully-outdated beerblog back on-line. Because you asked.
If it came from my machine? Of course.
But your computer isn’t in any danger.
Beware international shipments via UPS. They are real bastards about collecting taxes and duty, and put a hefty “brokerage fee” on top of that.
It’s bad enough that I won’t order online to Canada from the US if the goods are shipped by UPS.
FedEx isn’t so much of a ripoff.
Now, having said that, here’s what I’d like to see:
1. Men’s briefs adorned with adorable cephalopods.
2. Communion wafers with P-zed’s image stamped on them; ditto with silhouettes of assorted cephalopods.
3. Condoms with tentacular protrusions at the business end, the better to thrill one’s partner. Shades of Cthulhu….
4. Cephalopod wallpaper, in three styles: cute, for kiddies’ bedrooms; deeply serious for adults’ bedrooms; and waterproof for bathrooms.
5. Fine china painted with a pattern of crocoducks.
PS: Many Protestant sects do not believe in transubstantiation. To them, communion bread is just that: bread. And I think (but may be wrong) that the Orthodox churches use bread, not ethereal wafers baked by nuns.
[meta]
money:
Your emphasis on credentialism is amusing, troll.
(I don’t read Pharyngula because PZ is a great scientist, but because he is generally writes interesting blog posts and the comment threads are also interesting)
No, it’s perfectly clear: you are aggrieved that PZ is a successful blogger, and is beginning to monetise his expertise; the only relief you have from this reality is to piteously whine on his blog, much to my amusement.
(Ironically, each time you refresh and/or post here, you’re contributing to his coffers!)
money @ 236;
I think PZ spends a lot of his professional life teaching these days.
Because figures you just sucked out of your thumb are so compelling…
No. Frankly you are boring me to tears.
A few points:- Fristly, ALL CAPS does not make your argument any more credible, rather the opposite. Secondly, why shouldn’t PZ supplement his wage with his blogging activities? it is not illegal, it harms no one, and no one is forced to come here, still less buy pharyngula merchandise. Why do you even care? Actualy, scratch that question, I don’t want to know why you have fixated on PZ. Finally, as I noted above, PZ is paid by the university primarily to teach, not to publish.
I’ve been swamped with work today and just checked in. I take it I won’t be selling buttloads of merch to Chris and Bob?
That’s OK. Nobody has to buy anything — thanks to the magic of the intertubes, it’s just easy to put that kind of stuff up for sale. Take offense if you want, but you’re taking offense at FREEDOM.
‘Tis:
Would this be like Nanny Ogg and banananana?
‘Tis Himself, OM @ 240;
Deep Rifts, ‘Tis, Deep Rifts(TM)…
;-)
Nigel:
They are fabulous. She’s recently opened a ‘net shop of her own, but I’m sure she’d be willing to work out a deal for the use of those tentacles.
Chris, If someone like Nigel gives you valid criticism of your code, you consider it, rather than defend your code as being one off. The fact that you didn’t recognise the validity of his comments would cause me not to hire you as a programmer.
Here’s some advice, which you will no doubt ignore: The path to becoming an expert coder (and you are not there yet, by any stretch) is to write each throwaway piece of code as if it were a work of art. If you were a musician, you would hear “Perfect practice makes perfect”. Every piece of code you write is practice for the next piece of code – getting it right is not a waste of time. Those at the top of their profession don’t have a “sloppy one-off” style separate from a “gotta-make-this-good-enough-to-be-seen” style.
If you are writing in an OO language, you need to be able to think in classes. So practice. Especially in the throw-away stuff.
By the way:
I’m not quitting my day job. Blogging doesn’t pay all that much, and I basically cut what I used to get in half by joining FtB. I’m not blogging for the money or the glory.
I have no expectation of getting rich off the merchandise. This is a lark, tossing up some official Pharyngula widgets because people have been requesting them, and because Skeptical Robot made the process easy.
The people who are whining that I don’t do anything in my job are amusing. They don’t know much about what’s involved in teaching, especially at a small college with rising enrollments and a staff stretched thin. You have no idea how rough the next couple of weeks are going to be, as we near the end of the semester, term papers come rolling in, exams have to be prepared, students have nervous breakdowns on your shoulder, and all the damned paperwork has to be done right now.
Forgot to mention before all the troll beatings started, there should probably be a nice little badge or button or something special that is just for the OMs.
Are the Mollies up to date, by the way?
echidna:
That is perhaps the most beautiful thing I’ve read all day. It sums up so much, in just a few words.
Interestingly*, the USAnians are correct on that one, at least in terms of what the original word was; the extra ‘i’ was added to make it sound (for want of a better expression) more sciencey.
*For certain values of interesting.
Next on True Stories with Pat Robinson…
I think IUPAC is going along with the change to aluminium, as metals should end in -ium. And helium is in the process of changing to the non-metal name, helion, where the -on ending is for the noble gasses.
Thank you, Nigel.
*blush*
Freedom indeed PZ!
As for the rest of you, I know troll hunting is a sport around here, but there are some really crappy ass trolls on this page. Like not even worth the time. Yet people keep on conversing with them. Are you that easily baitable, or are you just SO bored and unimaginative that you cannot think of anything better to do?
I can’t find anything that says the IUPAC is interested in changing the name of helium. It would be surprising if they did, as the word “helion” is already taken (it means the He3 nucleus).
But yes, the IUPAC does prefer “aluminium,” although they tolerate “aluminum” as a variant. As compensation, though, we Americans won when it came to “sulfur.”
Ridiculous long conversation on computer programming aside….
I am digging the store – but it needs mugs!
WTRA:
Coffee or beer?
Choose wisely.
Wishful:
Are you so stupid you can’t figure out the answer even though you provided it to yourself?
I thought up a design, but lack the artistic talent to realise it, so if anyone wants to have a go at it, feel free – it’s a cartoon octopus eating a cupcake with ‘Pharyngula: we eat cupcakes for breakfast!’ underneath.
It keeps our fangs and claws sharp and our coats sniny.
Caine:
I hoped there was some reason unknown to me for why people would entertain both a loser programmer and a really pathetic religious anti-capitalist troll – for a really long time. People need to be more discerning in which trolls to engage at length. If we don’t, then the trolls won’t try. And then everyone will be sad.
Nigel:
I was thinking coffee, but you know what, a Pharyngula themed beer mug would kick ass.
I’m reminded of the bit from Happy Gilmore:
yeah.
I do, man.
*whimper*
Nah. What is going on here is kinda like an insult comic insulting someone over and over and over again, even though that certain someone came into the room shouting “I just shit my pants! See this brown stain on my pants! I am incontinent!”
It just isn’t worth it man. And hell, the trolls in here aren’t even as exciting as my hypothetical defecator.
STEP IT UP TROLLS, HAVE YOU NO SHAME?
Okay, I decided to look up what the USA term for what we call a stubbie cooler is – since they’re good things to put logos and so forth on – and found out that, according to Wikipedia at least, you call it a beer koozie.
Beer koozie? Seriously?
[meta]
WishfulSpecimen:
But then I wouldn’t be publicly laughing at you in this manner. :)
[OT]
Sounds vaguely yonic, to me. :)
WTRA:
I did it because I fucking hate people who brag about their mad, mad programming skillz. The really good programmers don’t brag, and the braggers aren’t good programmers — and every once in a while, it’s cathartic to let the little pissants know.
I was fine with him until he actually posted code. Rather mediocre code. Rather obviously mediocre code. And thought we should all be impressed. And when challenged, asked for specific reasons why we thought his code mediocre. And when given specifics, shouts, “But it’s supposed to be shitty code.”
Yeah. Right. That’s why he posted it. Because he thought it didn’t represent his awesome programming skillz.
I’m really surprised he didn’t come in all l337, like a 4chan inmate. (Granted, 4chan doesn’t have popups, so he’s got us there.)
I did it because it was like sitting through Hackers, only in real life. And unlike the movie, the wanna-be punk doesn’t get to be all, “Yo, I’m fucking l337! Not only did I guess your lame-ass password, but my Pentium processor with artificial intelligence trains the fuck out of the downloaded neural net with all my intrusion data. Boo-yeah!”
Instead, he’s all, “I’m gonna confuse you with this other person, but I’m not really stalking you, because your valid criticisms of my shitty code of which I’m so proud is really only valid if you’re some sort of super-genius programmer hiding behind your stupid nick. Oh, and my comments are so Donald Knuth, whom I’ve never read, nor do I understand why he’s so respected, but I’ve heard of cweb.”
Now look what you made me do — relive the whole damned thing. And you made everyone else suffer through it again, too.
Proud of yourself?
Beer koozie? Never heard of it. Someone on Wikipedia is trolling.
No, yeah, “koozie” is what I’ve heard those foam bottle-sleeves called. No troll.
Caine:
Hmm, didn’t think of that. Then again, at least ink washes off easily.
————————————
Rather than practice, I decided to look at videos of guitars and the tonewoods used to make them. I think I’ve picked out about three which have the sort of tone I would go for, but zeroing in on the one I’d want most is hard. All I know is that a spruce top seems like a good idea, even if I mostly use a pick to play.
Nigel:
Well, I would have preferred it Nigel Noir™ the second time around. :) That said, I don’t think you (or anyone else) needs to explain why they chewed on a troll.
Wishful needs to figure out that telling people to be discerning when it comes to fang and claw maintenance is a form of trolling, specifically, Tone Trolling and it’s not the first time Wishful has done it.
re #246
See what happens when you ask nicely? :)
re #282
I do believe somebody is out to provoke us. :)
mythusmage:
Not “us”. Me.
Just wondering as I am not part of this “blogging thing”, what is a “godbot”? Someone said that I “was one” and it doesnt sound like a compliment ;( But obviously people spouting truth rarely gets welcomed so I expected the insults but most just call me an “a**hole” and I never heard this godbot word so just wondering.
Bob, a godbot is someone who robotically spruiks goddism.
(You’re just a poor specimen of such)
—
lunatic: your trolling is duly noted; you too add to PZ’s coffers with every page view and comment. (Heh)
Nigel, I feel for you, man!
I’d never claim to be a great programmer – I am not quite lazy or hubristic enough – but I have enough WTF stories. My most recent favourite is the guy whose code not only contained a variable unironically named fred, but also vars typenu and typenew with values “Y”, “y”, “N” and “n”. With no documentation, and 20 almost but not quite entirely uncommented files to search through to find their definitions and uses.
A like a fundie, I get it. So just more of a basic insult calling me religious.
Oh, and guys, however bad my spelling and grammar is I still am American and if my spelling is more important then what is said, well, it says how pathetic you are, I have no problems admitting it, my english (native language) suck, but how this is relevant to posting I wouldn’t know, a quick look over a couple of posts and I find most posts to have various errors be it grammar or spelling, why would anyone comment on it even rather then actually speak about what is said?
Oh, yes, it could be easier to avoid the issue at hand? Like an atheist insulting the poster rather then defending his belief in evolutionism? Just a small example. Pathetic indeed.
Bob
Bob
People spouting truth, or at least facts, here are fine. Provided they have the actual evidence to back up their assertions they are welcomed warmly. People spouting baseless, evidence-less, religious/other woo ‘truths’ get short shrift, and possibly a rotting porcupine. No charge for the porcupine.
Bob:
The issue at hand is that, after many years, PZ is finally offering people the option of getting merchandise, not your whining.
(You are just an example of a vacuous troll, who (surprise!) claims to have been a long-time lurker grown disenchanted)
I would love it if PZ would collaborate with this guy. I wonder what it would take to get the two of them working together. Maybe design a series to benefit a particular charity or educational endeavor?
He even has cephalopod designs. I really want a bike messenger bag.
I feel slighted. I thought donkane sounded like an idiot and was surprised to learn that he was using “phenotype” correctly. Where’s my hater blog?
SallyStrange:
I never got involved in the phenotype issue with donkane. I did take issue with just how much of an idiot he was about women, especially his whole thing about women who go to church.
Well yes. There were a couple of reasons donkane sounded like an idiot: first, the whole thing about women who go to church. That was really weird. Second, his writing sucked. The phenotype thing was a confluence of the first and second things, I think.
So, Bob, what the hell has being an American got to do with anything? Does it give you some special right to use poor grammar and horrible run-on sentences, that the rest of the world isn’t allowed? Why even mention it?
May as well try it. If that doesn’t work, put a canned ham down there on a rope.
Josh:
He’s a Nibblonian?
Sorry, watching Futurama. Love & Rocket with Sigourney Weaver. :D
Caine:
Hehe. . I was referring to last week’s episode of The Walking Dead. In all honesty I shouldn’t have suggested the canned ham as bait, since it didn’t manage to lure the zombie out of the well. They needed live bait.
Why, oh why must people with awful spelling, grammar and punctuation always insist that these things don’t matter? Grammar and punctuation exist in the first place to make it easier to figure out what people actually mean. It’s hard enough knowing what somebody out in the ether means when they’re expressing themselves well, let alone when they’re posting god-awful messes that have to be deciphered.
Let’s eat, Earl! vs. Let’s eat Earl! Punctuation matters, unless you want people to think you’re a cannibal.
Yes. This.
Also, I just had the most extraordinary experience in the kitchen. While frying a hot dog (a Nathan’s frank, a rare, two-times-a-year treat since I have heart problems) in a skillet, I pulled the lid off and a wall of flames burst up three feet into the air out of the skillet. Nearly burned me damned eyelashes off. The oil must have caught fire, but damn, how in the world did that happen?
Yes, the sausage was delicious, thank you.
[OT]
Josh,
Vapour bomb; particulates in suspension with a source of ignition (assuming you were using a flame to heat it, not a hot element).
cf. thermobaric weapon
John – wow. . a vapour bomb. That must have been it. Yeah, it was an open flame as I cook on a natural gas stove. Thanks.
How unsettling, but at the same time cool:)
*snicker*
On topic…Aside from Crocoduck ties…possibly a sewing pattern to make a crocoduck stuffed animal? I’d love to make one.
Re: the high non-US shipping prices conversation waaaaay upthread.
I just tried a test checkout and also got $86.86 UPS shipping with no other alternatives available – screenshot here. I chose to check out as a guest rather than creating an account – perhaps that’s the difference?
“lunatic”, “money”, and several other names were all pseudonyms for the demented MRA who was also known as Cupholder and Frottage Cheese, among others. All of his comments have been deleted.
@300 Hi! Thanks so much for the screenshot. We’ve been trying to fix this and I THINK we may have figured it out. USPS International needs product dimensions in order to give a quote, and those dimensions were missing from the new t-shirt. We’re now going through and making sure those dimensions are added to every product so this isn’t an issue again.
Thanks to everyone who helped us troubleshoot!
Nigel said
Boy, that sure happened to me once a few years back. I wrote (well, massively modified) a script package for the IRC client I was using at the time. A year or two later, an update to the client broke some feature of the script, so I decided to go in and try to fix it. I looked over my code and couldn’t figure out what the fuck was the point of much of that section. Had no idea what I was trying to accomplish with it. I just didn’t use that language enough to be able to easily follow the code. One or two decent comments would have made a world of difference, but I had absolutely none in there, because nobody would ever see it but me.
Yeah, I’m not a great programmer. I’m mediocre at best. And I don’t document as well as I should. But I still try to write my code and comments in a way that somebody who didn’t write it could understand, because I know that the next time I see it, I may be as clueless about it as somebody who’s never seen it before.
On grammar & punctuation, good, bad, indifferent, and willfully screwy:
Sometimes the presence or absence of a comma makes all the difference in the world. Get lazy about grammar in the easy situations, and one day you will discover that what you wrote means the opposite of what you thought.
There was a trial in England after, iirc, WW I, where the verdict hinged on the presence or absence of a comma in an ancient law regarding treason, written in Norman French. As a guilty verdict involved the death sentence, it was no trivial affair.
So, those of you addicted to txtng abbrs lk ths (& wrs), pull up your socks and confine it to Twitter and other ultra-low bandwidth systems.
Today’s motto: GRAMMAR MATTERS
That languages do change over time is no excuse for being lazy, especially because the thrust of change may be toward complication, not simplification. For all we know, English may be evolving toward a grammar like many North American Indian languages in which single words communicate thoughts that take long sentences in current English; or toward a complex verb system as in Georgian and Burushaski; or toward the extreme simplicity of creoles. No one can tell, so make no assumptions, doodz.
.
Oooo, you beat 19 whole other people? Why, that’s almost too many to count with your fingers and toes together!
Chris:
Then why did you post it as a shining example of your programming?
From #133:
You’re not keeping your story straight here, Chris. Which is it? Are you an awesome programmer, or an awesome number cruncher, and which are you trying to prove? You said we could check your your awesome programming skillz, and when it turned out to be a sloppily-implemented trivial data loader demonstrating mediocre coding, you switched it up to being just a demonstration of how you can load data into someone else’s neural net. Are you going to keep moving the goalposts here?
See, in order for this joke to work, you must use “10” not “ten”.
“ten” means this many XXXXXXXXXX.
“10” could mean this many XXXXXXXXXX or this many XX.
You’re welcome.
Chris:
Sorry, Dude. Not me. I played around with Octave for a while, but I really don’t know much about it. My analysis days were limited to cost/benefit and other business-type stuff, so Octave wasn’t really applicable then. I haven’t played with scientific analysis since my days as a physics intern working on high-temperature superconductors.
But feel free to continue desperately seeking approval. Rest assured we’re all very impressed.
Chris:
You’re so cute when you’re trying to be patronizing.
No. It was at the same time I was an astronaut on a secret mission to Mars, where we went to the face and discovered a door leading to a secret stash of alien technology.
Chris,
You placed, what, sixth in a competition with about 24 other participants? Placing sixth is “competitive”? Reminds me of all the red ribbon trophies in Randall’s room in the movie About Schmidt to show how average the guy is. Is that what you are doing here, proudly displaying your “Participant” and “Also Ran” code from some obscure competition, as if it is some indication of your superior intellect (or something)?
Not only am I unimpressed with your accomplishment of coming in sixth, I am also unimpressed with your style of argument. You fail, completely, on multiple levels.
Except when XXXXXXXXXX = C
Chris:
Why? It’s rather natural for a physics major to work as a physics intern over the summer. It’s not much of a stretch, Punkin’. And what would I have to gain by lying? It’s not like I was trying to claim to be an ex-CIA operative just to impress strangers.
Now that’s just crazy-talk.
Chris,
Aside from all the petty cock waving about whether you can programme a computer or not (seriously, who cares? You’re being mocked, work it out), what is your actual problem? That PZ is a liberal and an atheist? That there are conservative atheists and they don’t get X here (where X is….whatever)? Whatever your issue is you’re hardly the epitome of clarity and directness.
So how about you cut out all the passive aggression and flirting with Nigel, I’m sure you can both get a room at a later date and have him mock you into a frothing sweat of orgasmic glee, and just come right out with your particular issue. Then we can discuss that instead of being treated to comment after poorly phrased comment of arrogant posturing from some pathetic self appointed internet show pony.
Yours in anticipation
Louis
I would love to see Pharyngula pens: different styles, with images (of crocoducks, PZ Myers with tentacle beard etc) but also, and especially, with diverse short “atheist” quotes like the ones that used to appear on the left side in the old Scienceblogs format. Permanent inspiration for whatever we may be writing with that pen…
Chris:
As I said before, I was commenting on the quality of your code. That’s what you were bragging about, Sweet Pea, and that’s what my analysis of your code was about (an analysis you specifically asked for, if you’ll recall).
I know nothing about the merit of placing in the top 50% of the contest in which you partook. All I know is that, when called a mediocre coder, you linked to a piece of code that demonstrated you are indeed a mediocre coder.
Ah. Using biased language against those dealing with a real problem. Classy. Really fucking classy.
And I got your sarcasm. I was demonstrating the difference between claiming to be a physics intern at one point in my educational career is in no way parallel to claiming to be a CIA operative. So your sarcasm was really both misplaced and, if I might say, quite mediocre.
Oh please
promoting ≠ politicizing
Chris who are you trying to impress?
Because you’re failing.
Chris:
No, Chris. My analysis pointed out what makes your code mediocre at best. The fact you can’t tell the difference between mediocre code and good code is another point against your coding ability.
The difference between good code and mediocre code is readability. Notice everything I mentioned was about the readability of your code. Hell, you were telling us upstream how we couldn’t even tell what your program did. That’s the sign of bad code, Chris.
And this is the last I’m posting on the subject. Your repetition is tedious.
Chris #323,
Are they really? I’m not so sure that’s true. Firstly, I think PZ and others are very clear about their politics and how/why they are separate from “simple” scepticism. In other words their religious scepticism (~atheism) is not necessarily political (prominent libertarian leaning atheists/sceptics like Penn Jilette and Michael Shermer exist). Neither is their “simple scepticism”. For example, they don’t need to infect their scepticism of homeopathy with (for example) a tract on marxism.
Secondly, there is this rather amusing notion that “reality has a liberal bias”. Not being from the US, where I presume you are from, I imagine that this has different connotations for you than it does for me. However, depending on the specific claim one is dealing with, it seems to be an hilariously useful rule of thumb when dealing with current American “conservative” politics. It may just be my limited reading as a foreigner, but the prominent “conservative” bunkum I read in various media is almost trivially dismissable. Mind you, I’m equally sure that some specific individual conservative claims are not so trivial. After all, I’m not an economist, and so I doubt I’d so easily discount the claims of serious conservative economists.
Anyway, your impression is asserted without any support. I have yet to see PZ (or anyone) claim that sceptics and scepticism must reflect a specific political outlook. Scepticism about one topic, for example, doesn’t imply scepticism about all topics. There are religious sceptics for example. I have yet to see anyone declare that being a sceptic demands a specific stance on, say, supply side economics.
And even if, worst case scenario, PZ and others are politicising scepticism, so what? Let a thousand flowers bloom. I’m content to bash at (for example) homeopathy with a christian sceptic, and bash at Christianity with a conservative atheist. I’m content to focus on what links me to others as opposed to what divides me. I can find endless schisms if I so choose, all the way down to the individual. I’m happy to disagree with the accomodationists about tactics, I’m happy to say they are wrong, I’m happy to argue with them, and then at the same time link arms with them against (for example) religious oppression of the individual. It’s not hard to do. I wonder why you appear to think it is. Is it perhaps your own projected politicisation that’s really the issue? Can you simply not tolerate the presence of sceptics who differ from you politically? Or perhaps it’s more serious even than that, perhaps you realise those who differ from you politically have a point, or {gasp} might even be right and your in sufficient denial that it pains you to process that.
Who knows? Either way, your complaint is kinda content free, so a little tough to engage with. Pro tip: “Waaaaaah” doesn’t really give people much to work with.
HTH HAND
Louis
Chris:
I called you out because you were addressing me. Did you call out raven when ze addressed you? While I will often defend others when outright discriminatory language is used (such as you used), raven’s mention of “voices in his head” was not outright discriminatory. The context used puts it in the “revelatory experience” category.
But I’m glad you feel your own experience gives you the right to discriminate against folks with other issues. Bully for you.
I like the implied argument that “because I have one disease, and thus a relatively lesser degree of privilege in one area, I can now make prejudiced statements about other people who have a different disease, and thus also have relatively lesser degrees of privilege in that area”.
This is good because as I have a bit of a tan I can now fulfil my life long desire to join the KKK and lynch people…..
….oh wait, my that’s neither my life long desire nor a coherent argument. Damn! Back to the drawing board. Well, at least it’s a good parody.
You’d think experiencing the effects of relatively low privilege would engender something like…oooooh I don’t know….compassion? Thought? Self analysis and realisation? Nah. Those things are scary!
Louis
Chris:
Seriously and quite sincerely, my sympathies. I’m glad there’re medications you can take to help, and I’m hoping they don’t have many side effects.
Umpteenthly, and finally for the next few minutes at least (curse you SIWOTI and COMOIOTI* syndromes!), King PZ? Really? Seriously? What is this fucking kindergarten? Most people here, myself included, support and agree with PZ on SOME issues. On others we disagree. Personally I think the beard has to go for starters. ;-)
It’s really the lowest form of “criticism” (and I am dignifying it by using that word) to go “Ooooh he’s like your boyfriend, your master your king, you’ll do anything he says nanny nanny boo boo”. Especially when even a cursory reading of any section of this (and other sites) would grant one the remarkable insight that {deep breath} THIS IS SIMPLY NOT FUCKING TRUE.
Louis
*Compulsive, Obsessive Mocking Of Idiots On The Internet
The monkey non-denominational holiday card is cute, but I think you may have missed a cephalopodean opportunity to wish everybody a Merry Squidmas.
In an era when one of two major political parties deliberately denigrates and avoids empiricism and evidence, being a skeptic is an inherently political act. Get the fuck over it.
Chris:
That’s excellent. I really am glad.
I’ll not take your advice, though, until I’ve consulted a proctologist.
Chris:
Too late. I already let it slip. Also, I still don’t take orders from you.
What are you doing here, Chris? Trolling? If so, what do you get out of it? If not, why the need to antagonize everyone?
Chris:
Fair enough.
Is skepticism applicable only to science?
He needs some attention, clearly. C’mon Chris troll, Dance! We’ll throw some loose change at your feet. Perhaps you could eventually buy a friend. At least for a little while.
Aside from the fact that this is is a patently obvious tu quoque logical fallacy, there’s a difference between twisting facts and outright denying reality.
Can someone translate this for me . . . or do you think he just threw a package of magnetic poetry on the floor and typed what he saw?
Fake PZ beards? to go with the feminist wigs. That oughta confuse the MRAs.
Chris:
So, empiricism has no place in determining personal or social situational outcomes?
And you decided to address that in a thread announcing there were cute things for sale, and to do it in a way that rather than talking about the politicization of skepticism, instead talked about how
big your penis isgreat your coding skillz are and how we should see the hugepenistrophy certificate you got for placing in the top ten in some computer skillz competition.Yes, makes all kinds of sense.
Awwww, poor baby. Someone needs a nap! Nerd, can you grab some clean nappies? This ones got a steaming stink.
“Egregious” means exceptional, lackwit, so you’re saying American Conservatives are particularly exceptional but not otherwise exceptional.
LOL this troll is fun – in a recess playground sort of way. Everyone, pretend to cry! We’re supposed to be hurt that this vacuous douche doesn’t like the merch.
The is/aught problem does not do away with empiricism in individual and social situations, as far as I can tell. While empiricism can’t determine the desired goal, it can help determine actions to reach that goal.
It seems that you’re saying that the goals themselves are arbitrary, and that all individual and societal outcomes are equal.
I’ll take your word on that, as you clearly are such a person.
That old canard? Yeah, like none of us ever disagree with PZ or each other on anything. You know, sometimes when everybody but you thinks you’re being an idiot, it’s not because you’re actually the only genius in the room and everybody else is just too dim to see it.
Chris:
Please note, a careful reading of #362 admits the goal itself cannot currently be determined empirically. Your challenge is empty, as it’s not challenging anything I have asked.
Let me provide a clearer scenario. Libertarians wish to maximize personal liberty by removing economic and government regulation. Can empiricism be used to discover whether actions dictated by their assumptions will result in their goal?
Chris,
Based on your comment re Pandagon in #338 are you objecting to sceptical organisations etc encouraging non “old, straight, white dude” folk from participating and having an equal voice?
What Pandagon appears to be saying, at least to me, is that there is a certain luxury to any specific privilege. That luxury permits one to be ignorant, wilfully or not, of those people who have less of that specific privilege than one does. For example, I as a man can be (and largely am I have no doubt) ignorant of a large part of the relative lack of privilege women endure in the society in which I live. I try not to be, I’m working on it, but that’s by-the-by.
The sceptical “movement” (such as it is) benefits from certain types of privilege. The very fact that we are not out grubbing for meals and have time and intellectual luxury to consider the things we do, relatively unoppressed, is a form of basic privilege. We all have it (to some degree). What Pandagon is advocating is a means to extend that privilege to others who typically lack it, i.e. people who are generally disenfranchised (people who have been failed by the education system for example), the discriminated against (for example, women being discouraged from STEM fields etc), and those for whom the simple ability to access various media/conferences etc is difficult (people with physical disabilities or poor people for example). Obviously not everyone who fits into some group lacks that privilege. There are counter-examples to every general trend, the point is that there exists general groups within our societies who are, for whatever reason, lacking in the luxuries granted by some specific privileges. Privilege that you, I or someone else might enjoy.
So you appear to me to be disagreeing with something very simple, i.e. the value of extending the privilege I enjoy to those who typically do not enjoy it. Do I have it correct that you are disagreeing with that?
Louis
Chris:
Let’s assume they settle that in the next several days.
Assuming they reach clear, parameterized definitions of “personal liberty,” can empiricism be used to discover whether actions dictated by their assumptions will result in their goal?
Oh gawd. It’s the “Mr. I took Philosophy in high school!” trap. Carlie called it. It’s a wanker.
Its not the disagreeing that makes you an idiot. It’s the hilariously transparent narcissistic wanking.
It appears that Chris thinks we should only apply skepticism to bigfoot, psychics, and other paranormal phenomena. Sorry Chris, the use of skepticism can go well beyond dthe paranormal, to political fuckwits, monetary delusions, and social idiocy committed by various ideologies. All we do as skeptics is to see if the evidence in the literature matches their claims. Like liberturds calling us communists if we disagree with them. If we actually check what real communist philosophy says, we aren’t communists. The liberturd deliberately misused the label for effect, and we can call them on their lack of veracity. As PZ says, question everything, including what PZ says. So, what is your problem? That reality has a liberal bias?
Right and wrong are useless words. It makes one a monster to have such a goal, irrespective of whether one can prove it’s right or wrong.
I am not convinced that there is ever a ‘best’ person for any given position, but were I to grant that, I still don’t think the societies to which we belong operate along those lines. How would you get from here to there?
Chris,
I’ll let those more social science qualified than I to deal with your laughable dismissal of the concept of privilege and simply point out the rather glaring hole in your comment:
I too favour meritocracy, I believe the best person for any “job” should get it. But what if there are relatively hidden, relatively unquestioned mechanisms beyond that person’s control that prevent the best person from even being considered for the job? In other words, what if a non-level playing field prevents the best person for the job getting the job?
Isn’t it in the best interest of the people searching for that elusive “best person for the job” to make sure that the playing field is as level as possible so that the true cream can rise to the top, as opposed to someone who had an unearned head start?
Louis
Chris:
Agreed. Controlled experiments are a bit out-of-scope here. But, as someone who prepares datasets for neural networks, you see there is data that can be processed and analyzed, correct? Certainly not clean network intrusion data, but the situations are similar: analysis of noisy empirical data gathered using methodologies that employ bias reduction techniques (basically, a rudimentary science) in an attempt to determine correlation.
Is this impossible to accomplish?
History can. The liberturd economic goals were in place in the US from after the Civil War until around the end of the nineteenth century. What happened economically? Regular boom and bust cycles, as positive reinforcement was in place for both. The corruption of politics. The building of trusts, monopolies, and interlocking oligaarchies. It didn’t work like liberturds claim it will.
Which is why I challenge them to produce one first world country using their principle for thirty years. Not one liberturd has provided such evidence. Every think why?
Oh good. ANother one of these trolls today. We were running low.
Its also erecting strawmen to defeat in an attempt to pretend you have more then seven brain cells and some aren’t in a fight to the death.
Chris:
So, you’re saying having an incomplete understanding of something is just as bad as not understanding it at all?
Ah, so Chris is mad that he has to share skepticism with all those women and minorities. Got it.
Whatchu talkin’ ’bout, Louis? The playing field is perfectly level. The ones on top say so.
Chris,
Who knows? Really? That’s it? So do we just give up then? I doubt that is your meaning, but it sure sounds like it.
Chris,
So, you do not vote, nor take interest in any political debate? You are not interested in the outcome of any legislation? You do not take exception to any laws?
Chris,
Okay, well, if that’s how you feel then. It’s not very persuasive though, you’ll have to excuse the rest of us caring and making mistakes while we try to fix shit.
[OT … if anything is off topic anymore now that Chris is here]
Professor Ng’s course, as it is available to people worldwide at the moment, is obviously for beginners. It’s recommended that exercises are done in Octave because it is easy to understand for someone who might be seeing it for the first time. Are you going to brag how quickly you’ve been solving those quizzes and programming exercises? Wow, here’s a slow clap from me. I’m impressed. Someone with your skills solving exercises made for people who are dealing with machine learning for the first time… Aren’t you a genius.
Hey mediocre programmer (that’s you, Chris, in case you’d forgotten), if you want to argue economics then go for it. It’s the opinion of several people, not just Pharyngula regulars, that I’m a better than mediocre economist.
The answer to this question is yes, empiricism can be used to determine whether economic actions will result in achieving a goal, regardless of what that goal might be.
You might argue that your perception of personal liberty is not the same as that of some libertarian. However if the libertarian can articulate his definition of personal liberty and describe which economic means would fulfill that particular definition, then a competent economist could use empiricism to determine if the economic means would likely achieve that goal.
Chris:
How did you get to that “aught” from the “is” of societal inequality?
# 8/9/13/22…isn’t it obviously a cuddlefish on the button?
Chris:
Only if you are interested in reciprocation. If you don’t want people to care about you when you are suffering, I reckon your attitude is just peachy.
That’s another “aught.”
Chris #387
That’s telling ’em, Chris. I’m sure all econometricians will instantly abandon their work and become trainers of performing elephants now that you have sneered at their endeavors.
Chris, when you can describe what vector autoregression is, then I’ll consider your opinion about econometrics. Until then, you’re just another mediocre programmer talking out of your asshole about something you’re ignorant about.
Incidentally, vector autoregression is what got a couple of econometricians the 2011 Nobel Economics Prize.
Can you show that there is absolute equal opportunity for everybody in education, training, and life experience? If not, how is there not subtle forms of discrimination and/or priviege going on? There is a reason why women and minorities got more orchestra jobs when a screen was put up between the player and the evaluators, helping to make the process more honest. That type of thing needs to be in place everywhere privilege can rear its ugly head. But you want a process that in reality is more of an old-boy-network where privilege and who you know, versus what you know, is important.
Ah. So you’ll be able to tell us how to operationalize merit.
Chris,
Your resistance in accepting the utility of incomplete understanding is interesting, considering your use of neural nets, which were designed based on a very incomplete understanding of how the brain works. Further, one of their most useful functions is analyzing incomplete and noisy data sets.
So, while our understanding of economics is incomplete, it is functional. While our understanding of sociology is rudimentary, it has proven useful. This has all been demonstrated empirically.
The is/aught problem is an ideological problem, not a functional or utilitarian problem. Societal goals can be determined in any number of ways. Once those goals are established, you can use empiricism (and therefore the scientific method, and skepticism) to help ensure your actions work toward those goals.
Is it a perfect solution? No. But honestly, those are the only tools we have.
Unless you have some other tools for us to use?
Chris:
Damnit! I always get those two mixed up.
Thanks.
Chris,
Two things then I’m out for the night (hopefully):
1) What is the cost of levelling the playing field then? You seem concerned about it, so tell us what it is. What if the playing field can be levelled without serious cost for example.
2) You sneer at the social sciences, fine, so did I when I was an undergrad. The toilet roll dispensers in the department where I did my degree still to this day bear a sign saying “sociology degrees, please take one”. However, in the intervening years I grew up a bit, read some books and realised that everyone’s fields outside my own had some tiny scintilla of merit. Gosh how magnanimous of me!
In fact it went further than that, the more I learned about social sciences etc the more value I saw. Of course there are limits to what any social science can do, but so what? Social scientists know this and state it outright, perhaps you should correct your own gaping ignorance first. Just a tip.
Night all.
Louis
So some social scientists couldn’t determine a “rule” concerning something outside their expertise, so therefore they know nothing about their fields of expertise. Wow, that example is just so…so…so…mediocre. It reminds me of you. After all, you’re the ignorant asshole who sneers at econometricians without having a fucking clue about econometrics.
So, mediocre asshole, what’s your next trick? Are you going to sneer at historians because they’ve never been taught boolean algebra?
Looks like I called it. Wants a meritocracy, admits that it’s unfair in our current social climate, doesn’t care as long as he doesn’t think it affects him personally. All those women and minorities can just go off and die somewhere, quietly.
You’re pretty much the last person I want to hear about when it comes to “politicizing” skepticism.
Chris:
I’ll leave that to ‘Tis Himself, who understands this stuff far better than I do.
Sociology has given PR firms far greater insight into marketing, making modern marketing more efficient.
So, why are you arguing?
How would it not be politicized? People are just that.
Chris:
Because it helps us towards our goal.
Your goal is different. But not everyone can be a nihilist.
Ah, liberturds. The reek of hypocrisy, ignorance, and arrogance runs deep.
Why should I bother? You don’t seem to give a shit about politics anyway.
Or maybe you would like to give us a rundown of the specific political positions that you think skepticism is being inappropriately tied to.
In the modern American sense, these are two very different positions. You’re going to have to try harder than that. Like, imagine you’re in some kind of programming contest…
In other words, you don’t know a fucking thing about vector autoregression but that won’t stop you from sneering at the people who do know about it.
I probably will read the book, in spite of your recommendation. However not having read it won’t stop me from calling a mediocre, ignorant asshole a mediocre, ignorant asshole. You got a problem with that, you mediocre, ignorant asshole?
If you don’t know economics or politics or history, you are ignorant. That stands. You are morally bankrupt like liberturds. That comes from not caring about your fellow man.
Chris is delusional. He thinks his apathetic acceptance of the status quo, and his obvious discomfort with efforts to change it, are not political stances.
Hopefully Jadehawk will be along to deal with the privilege question. I’m on my phone right now, so don’t have access to the resources that would show that privilege has a concrete definition and is quite predictive and accurate.
Of course, Chris doesn’t care. He doesn’t care so much that he’s spent hours telling us about how little he cares. Sure. Right.
Well, I’m off to the local protest march in support of labor rights and OWS. See ya!
Chris:
I would disagree that skepticism is tied in any real sense to liberalism or libertarianism. Many of the individuals in the liberal movement are anything but skeptics. From homeopathy to UFO cults, there are many in the liberal movement who are credulous fools.
I think you’re mistaking the general liberal leanings of many skeptics for the liberal movement in general. I’m very liberal, and the reasons I’m liberal have nothing directly to do with being a skeptic. I’m a liberal because I would like to minimize suffering, and to maximize happiness and equality. It’s hard to define those terms, yes, but that doesn’t make the goal useless, nor unapproachable. It does make the goal unattainable, of course, but getting closer to the goal than we are now isn’t impossible, and is certainly preferable (to me) to not moving towards that goal.
So I use empiricism to work towards that goal. The efficacy of some methods are far from certain, but the relative cost is worth attempting, if for no other reason than to gain empirical data. My skepticism helps me determine the relative probability (and margin of error) of a specific action being efficacious.
The reason there seems to be so many skeptics in liberal politics these days is mostly because of the dearth of skeptics in conservative politics, which has been taken over largely by theocrats who desire to eliminate skepticism, and have begun to implement policies designed specifically to make skepticism unacceptable.
But just because many skeptics are liberals does not mean the liberal movement (if it can be called that) is based on skepticism.
There’s a huge difference.
QFT
No, mediocre asshole, you haven’t criticized shit. You’ve made vague sneers at econometrics and vapid comments about magical thinking but you haven’t made criticisms. A valid criticism would be something like:
That’s a criticism of vector autoregression made by Walter Enders who’s a genuine economist, not a mediocre programmer asshole.
My point, you tedious wanker, is that you can’t complain about people “politicizing” skepticism without providing some specific examples of how this is happening, and how this is inappropriate. Not that I have any confidence that you can see beyond the end of your nose, but if you could, you’d realize that trying to grow the skeptical movement to include people other than the usual old (and getting older) white men and get our views recognized in the wider social and policy spheres requires political knowledge and action.
‘Tis:
Or a physicist, like Rein Taagepera.
Why is it that physicists always think they can “fix” the hard problems with other disciplines? I mean, it’s not like they haven’t been stuck on, “The night was…” in QM for 80 years now.
Wow, you guys are really giving Chris lots of love.
I know Turbo Basic and Visual Basic, I remember when I used VB years and years ago, is it still around? Eh, I dont know if that would qualify me in your debate, Chris? Nigel?
Chris:
Two things:
1. So? How is that in any way related to the bit you quoted?
2. European libertarians are not the same as American libertarians. They are far closer to American liberals than American libertarians.
Depends on what the task is. – Chris
Typically dishonest non-answer from you. If you can’t give a general answer to how we operationalize merit, your espousal of “meritocracy” is empty of content. “What the task is” is, typically, a political matter. For example, is the task of a doctor to extend life as much as possible, to minimise suffering, to maximise profit, to ensure an easy life for themselves, or what?
Utter crap. I’m European and all the Europeans calling themselves libertarian I’ve come across in the past two decades have been exactly the same kind of selfish fuckwit as American libertarians.
Chris:
Again, how is this in any way relevant?
You know, if you want to never be sullied by politics, or people making you face uncomfortable truths about society, you could just go back to your lines of computer code. You don’t even have to buy any Pharyngula holiday cards for them!
KG:
That was me, KG, not Chris.
And I admit I’m probably wrong, in that case. In several of our libertarian run-ins, I’ve had it explained to me by people purporting to be libertarian that European libertarians aren’t the same as American libertarians.
So, as I seem to have been misinformed, I retract point 2.
Feeble.
The choice of objectives is political in the case of a large proportion of jobs, dolt – and particularly in those where the job-holder’s performance makes most difference; but I’m quite prepared to believe that this is a fact that what you rather presumptuously refer to as your mind is incapable of comprehending.
Chris:
It certainly will, if nobody does anything to attempt to stop it.
nigelTheBold,
Well, that is my experience, as I said, over the last two decades. Before that (roughly), “libertarian” did indeed have a different meaning over here (indeed in my youth I’d have called myself a libertarian socialist), so you may have encountered people more recently who were still refusing to bow to American usage.
KG:
Thanks for the clarification. That might be it.
In any case, thanks for the correction. As Chris has degenerated into pure troll now, this might be the only real thing I’ll get out of this long chain of question-dodging, appeals to authority, and non sequiturs.
Chris:
Sorry, Chris. No openings for you at this time. It seems those jobs are currently being filled by more meritorious candidates*.
* You should probably get used to hearing that now, so you aren’t so disappointed later.
*guffaw*
What counts as scepticism is very obviously political, as indeed you’ve demonstrated by claiming that scepticism should avoid political involvement. Are you really too stupid to understand that that is in itself a political stance?
Chris:
Quoting a book by a physicist and sometimes-political-scientist on matters of sociology, rather than presenting any argument.
I’m sure you are, Sweet Pea. I’m sure you are.
Chris, being a skeptic, I don’t believe a thing you say without third party support for your fuckwittery. Start showing us your brilliance by citing the real literature to back up your nonsense. And it is nonsense until you prove otherwise. Welcome to science.
I’m quite ready to believe you: you’ve amply demonstrated what a spiteful little shit you are. But if you weren’t also very stupid, you’d realise that we in the rest of the world are necessarily affected by what happens in the USA, what with it being the world’s greatest military and economic power.
Chris:
It seems pretty damned obvious, what with the way you really really strive hard for just the least amount of approval, while simultaneously sneering and claiming you could do better. Those are the traits of someone who is desperately jealous of the success of someone else.
We’re pleased, I’m sure.
Chris,
Boom/bust cycles may indeed result from fundamental properties of socio-economic systems – although you are sadly deluded if you think any single book is enough to decide the question. But even if that is the case, it does not follow that nothing can or should be done to moderate their magnitude and effects.
Chris:
For a skeptic, you certainly have low standards of evidence.
What a profound insight. You really should write it up for publication.
BTW, how’s that general operationalization of merit coming along? That would probalby garner you a Nobel.
Chris:
Your quick defensiveness at even the least amount of criticism, rather than a direct address of the criticism itself. That’s pretty much a sure sign you wish approval.
It certainly demonstrates a lack of actual skepticism.
I wasn’t talking about what you could or should do, fuckwit, as should be obvious from the fact that I did not say “…it does not follow that you can or should do nothing to moderate their magnitude and effects”.
Chris,
You’ve whined about topics ranging from computer programs to econometrics to skepticism to liberalism. Not once have you given an actual criticism. You don’t like liberals but you don’t offer any reasons why you don’t like them. You don’t like politicization of skepticism but you’ve (a) never given an example of such politicization and (b) never explained why it’s a bad thing. You’ve made reference to a book by a politicized physicist which supposedly shows social scientists don’t understand physics so econometricians are wrong with their calculations. In short, your arguments are too general. You don’t give specifics as to why the things you whine about are worthy of your whines. All you do is whine.
And you’re a mediocre whiner.
I begin to wonder if we’re sparring not with Chris, but with a neural net based chatbot he’s built. If so, I must admit I would drastically revise my estimate of Chris’s talents.
You didn’t quote the book, you gave a link to amazon. As it happens, I’ve read the book and it’s pretty good (and probably too technical for a mediocre asshole like you). But just giving a link isn’t enough. You need to actually say something about the book, give a few quotes or reviews, something that says more than “my googlefoo is good enough to find a book on amazon.”
Chris:
This is the most ironically funny thing I’ve read in a long, long time.
Also, you just listed all your best traits.
du är välkommen.
Now I’m outta here. I have beer to drink, brain cells to kill, and some ugly code to rewrite.
Y’ll have fun.
Chris:
Only if I gave a fuck.
Yawn, Chris, when are you going to show how skepticism is politicized? You remind me of the fuckwit Shiloh. He kept making vague claims, without merit, and kept claiming victory after he was soundly refuted. Typical loser pattern.
Goodness, you’re a good enough computer weenie to figure out how to use babelfish. Your mediocrity never fails to fail.
Your whine is just another example of your non-specific whines? How are liberals smarmy and sanctimonious and whatever that Scandinavian word is? Give examples, not general whines.
Another fucking link. Don’t you have any original thoughts or are you too mediocre a thinker?
What are these “original goals” and how are they compromised? You’re still in vapid generalities mode.
Rein Taagepera is a professor of political science. He was a failed candidate for president of Estonia and chairman of a political party. How more politicized can he be? Damn, I know more about him than you do. Your mediocrity is at work again.
How do we know the book says so? Your unsupported word is not sufficient. However, since I know something about Taagepera, I admit the book probably says something vaguely similar to your whine about social scientists and linearity. But that still doesn’t say shit about econometrics, a subject you haven’t shown you have the slightest knowledge about.
No, mediocre asshole, your whines don’t show anything except you’re a whiner, and a mediocre one at that.
Amazing how Chris is impressing himself. Sure isn’t impressing me. A little shut the fuck up on his part would go a long ways…
Uhm, Chris? “Reality has a liberal bias” is your example of smarmy, sanctimonious liberals? A tongue-in-cheek mockery of the “media has a liberal bias” conservative meme, popularized by a comedy program? Well, let no-one accuse you of having a sense of humor.
Good fucking grief
This is still going on?
Don’t worry, I already called the waaaaaaahmbulance.
Not getting one from me, I never lied to you.
My goodness. I’ve just got to the end of this thread. Can a demand for a Leica be far off?
More importantly, I love the Happy Monkey cards. Don’t think they’d go over well here, but that’s all the more reason to buy them.
Yeah pointing out promoting is not the same as politicizing and asking if you if your internet cock waggling was an attempt to impress (when it so obviously was) is being a dipshit.
I think you need nap and maybe a bedtime story. You’re getting awfully agitated.
It’s not good for your blood pressure you know.
[meta]
I see Chris as an obsessed narcissist with an inflated ego and few chops.
(Sad specimen)
For what exactly? Be specific. Without specifics you are really just posturing.
And this is the sort of stupid generality that is really annoying. I spoke to you, and now you demand an apology from me. You may not have intended to include me, but your blanket demand includes me anyway. Such imprecision does not befit a technical or academic person, especially a programmer at the top of his game. It tells me that when you code, you are working against your natural inclinations.
By the way, I lost interest in you when you gave a sliver of Prof. Ng’s code and claimed it was an example of bad commenting. I looked at the whole piece it came from, and you blatantly misrepresented him. Prof. Ng comments clearly, at the high level that speaks of someone who knows what they are doing. As one would expect.
John Morales # 501 – not to mention the fact that he’s excruciatingly boring, profoundly unpleasant (according to his own words) and an utter tosser based on the sheer quantity of wank with which he’s been clogging up the thread.
Chris@496
Sounds like he meets PZ’s definition of trolling to me:
Indeed, it is difficult to tell Chris apart from a libertarian. What with all the “I got mine, fuck y’all” nonsense.
You wish.
Are you still insisting that you’re totes apolitical, Chris? That’s a particularly amusing conceit on your part.
“The coñac was 7€ a bottle”
Really? Swill, I tell you. The passable stuff is at least 15 € a bottle. (well here at least, but that will change soon, god bless Costco and its money.) :-)
Actually, I thought that Chris called, or had someone else call, the waaambulance already. Must’ve been looking forward, with the kind of clarity that we can expect of someone who barges in here with a post whose only two points were that he regards himself a good programmer and that he doesn’t care for PZ too much. And woe unto anyone who dares to challenge him on these insights.
Anyway, even though I’m a bit late to the game, I apologize. I am so sorry that you have taken this long to actually give a damn about something other than your programming skills and post something that is mildly amusing to us lurkers. It is nice to see an outraged “pay attention to me!!!” from someone who, over the course of a few hundred comments, posted nothing but widespread condescension and petty, tangential sniping. On an article on something as innocuous as PZ selling a few Pharyngula-themed products. I am sorry that a T-shirt and a button for sale was the last straw in the total of vague, unnamed offenses PZ has committed. I am also sorry that any of the regulars bothered engaging you. As far as trolls go, it was like farmers milking a two-by-four. Nothing substantiative, nothing amusing, just an endless stream of nothing as hours flow by, save for the occasional splinter. I am truly apologetic that you had to go through all of that effort to contribute nothing at all, to anything. Except to have us believe that your programming, whoever the fuck you are, is a notch or two above mediocre. Glad that you had to bring up your coding prowess to settle for arguing that you’re not mediocre.
If only we could do it all over. If only we could take it all back. If we could have just done the humane thing and ignored you.
echidna:
Shhh. We’re the dishonest ones, remember? We are dishonest because Chris suspects that people are lying based on the smallest amount of “evidence”. How dare you suggest that it might be Chris who is in fact dishonest!? That’s so unskeptical and political of you! Or something.
The only thing I’d apologize for is having too much fun participating in batting the toy around.
2 cents: I never got that it was a cuttlefish. It always looked like “something” smoking.
Chris says:
You’re the one who tromped in here, dick-a-swingin’ and derailed what would otherwise likely have been a 50-ish-post-long thread about merch and transformed it into an exhibition for your massive ego, your sociopathy, and your vast general ignorance.
You don’t march through someone’s front door, shit on the ottoman, smash the PlayStation with a baseball bat, and call the cat a bastard and then demand an apology when you are called an asshole for it.
Um, sure. Just keep telling yourself that.
I hope you had a tissue handy.
I’m sorry you’re such a narcissistic, dimwitted asshole. I truly am.
That’s not almost perfect, that’s almost normal or in prehypertention.. Nothing perfect about that.
Blood pressure (mm Hg) Stage
Less than 120/80 Normal
120/80 to 139/89 Prehypertension
140/90 to 159/99 Stage 1 hypertension
160/100 and higher Stage 2 hypertension
Like I said, you need to chill. That blood pressure is the silent killer.
HOLY SHIT, did you guys double down on crazy, or what? I started where I left off the other day, and kept seeing posts by Chris or to Chris. So I started hitting page down quickly, read just the headings of the messages, and yes, you guessed it, the Chris-a-thon kept happening. Is anyone actually discussing merchandise?
Oh yeah, I’s a troll, because I take issue with HUNDREDS of posts being devoted to a troll (and a lame and worthless troll at that)? Fuck you and your really asinine definition! Ah, I can’t be made at you Caine, because everytime I read your comments, I picture them coming out of Craig Ferguson pretending to be a drunk Micheal Caine. In a space suit. True story.
Yey! Just bought the Kawaii pin! :)
You really should tell that awful person who is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read the comments that it’s not nice to force people to read things against their will.
Sounds wonderfully entertaining. But it’s completely off topic–are you now going to be “made” at yourself?
Damn it all! I wish I said something earlier so that I could refuse to apologize to Chris.
I’m sorry.
Wait, did I actually comment here?
Just dropping by now to see how the merchandise discussion managed to produce 500 comments…
Wow. Now I actually do feel sorry for you, Chris. With your obsessive stalking, infantile demeanor and inflated ego, life must be hard for you and the people around you. If you relax a bit and one day understand that no one cares, you might just be able to have an actual meaningful conversation with humans – there’s always hope…
I’m sorry I wasted my time talking to a fucking mediocre asshole.
I just want to know what a “fucking apology” is. It sounds…..wellllll at least mildly inappropriate for a first encounter with a gentleman, and possibly somewhat over the top for so minor an infringement as calling someone a moron on the internet.
Perhaps a fucking apology is best used in more serious circumstances, for example in ascending order of severity:
“Oh dear I appear to have trodden on your toe. Would a good fuck be an adequate apology?”
“Whoops I appear to have created a massive climate of toxic debt in your nation with my rapacious banking practises thus forcing millions into the poverty trap. Could I in some fashion compensate by providing you with a really good shag? Here, start by taking this watermelon and inserting it boldly into my anus?”
“Crikey, I seem to have accidentally committed genocide! Blow job?”
“I am Ken Ham. Can I provide you with a truly disturbing mental image?”
Also I never did get the answer to my, quite reasonable I thought, question about just what is the cost of extending the privilege I and others enjoy to those who do not enjoy it? What is the cost to a meritocratic system of making sure that people have equal access to the facilities of that meritocratic system?
I’m betting it’s human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together… mass hysteria!
Lots of love. Big Kiss.
Louis
In Chris’s case, I certainly wouldn’t bet on that.
I think you’ll find it stuffed up your arse. Just move your head about a bit and you should find it.
Hahahahahahahahaha! What a fucking whiny pissant. Say, Chris, why don’t you go fuck yourself a couple of times over?
That you even have to ask the question makes it clear you are utterly worthless to the human race. Jump off a bridge. At least that way, some aquatic predators will get a meal, and you’ll be useful for a few minutes.
As for apologies, I’m sorry you’re so useless. Poor little thing.
I now have a blog crush on you, but you owe me a new monitor. LOL
But I (and many others) have read some 113 posts in this thread by Chris. Many of us have submitted erratum and, yet, Chris has still not acknowledged nor updated his argument. Does Chris even have an argument? Is he just hanging on for attention? Who knows.
I think Chris the chew toy is broken. Time for a new one.
Chris,
The sad truth is, no here one cares what you have read. Really. I’ve met many people over the years that are smarter than me, and I can live with that.
I haven’t seen anyone in a long time who needed to so desperately boost his sense of self worth publicly. Unfortunately, your strategy doesn’t work here. This might enfuriate you, but to reiterate, no one cares.
[meta]
Chris, you’re just spamming this thread with your out-of-topic stupidities.
At some point, you will annoy PZ sufficiently, and then we shall be rid of you.
—
PS Enjoy your heartburn.
Chris —> killfile for terminal insipidity. The vapidity knows no end.
Uh huh. Sure thing Chris. “Perfect”.
Even if I was to believe that little bit of shift you employed there, you’re still awfully close.
And judging by the incredibly obsessive behavior you’ve displayed here, I’d be careful if I were you.
Are you getting enough sleep? Exercise?
Sally:
HA! You mongoloid, that argument can be used against everyone, anytime they complain about anything written online! I’d *LIKE* for this thread to be about merchandise suggestions, but monogoloids like Chris and the ones who continuously feed him make that pretty much impossible. I am embarassed you are even defending what happened here. Pathetic. Truly and utterly pathetic.
And in case some other idiot calls me a tone troll or a concern troll again, I don’t care what your tone is, and I don’t have any concern for your well being, but I’d like certain comments sections to perhaps stay remotely on topic? Instead of 99% off of it? Novel concept, I know.
Chris:
Quit misrepresenting me, dimwit. You have no idea what I’d have to say about those comments, as you wouldn’t know a good comment if it came up and bit your balls off.
I’m worried about you buddy.
Oh well, then. No need to worry, but I’m very glad you brought it up because bringing up the first thing makes perfect sense if no one has gotten under your skin enough to trigger such a drastic mood swing. I guess this obsessive, boastful, need to impress, behavior is your baseline normal mood, not some drastic mood swing.
Still, I’m worried about you. Seriously buddy, take care of yourself.
Meh. So much for merch.
If Chris’ goal was to threadjack, he’s done a good job.
Goodness knows why else he’d post such a surreal and pointless screed.
DNFTT – unless it’s for fun or practice, I guess…
Have a Happy Monkey, Chris.
Chris, for some reason, I just want to kiss you. With tongue.
Great, I see more shipping options have been added for all products. When I first looked, shipping cost for a T-shirt was more than $150, now it’s as low as $8.41. Thanks for taking care of that!
WishfulThinkingRulesAll sez, twice:
Surely, you know that we don’t tolerate using disabilities as insults, right? I believe part of this thread, before your much loathed Chris derail, alluded to the fact that invoking mental illness to demean those who are WOTI is frowned upon here. You are also aware that we tend not to enjoy having racists in our midst? So, why would use a term that both specifically refers to those with Down’s Syndrome (which was how it predominantly came to become an insulting term) and to a nebulous Asian “race” conjured up in various racist pseudoscientific categorizations? Why use as an insult something with both a blatant racist and ableist history? Please take this into consideration. If you don’t acknowledge that using the term was a mistake, you will likely dig yourself into a hole that there was no need to enter.
Chris:
Because angry nihilists make me hot.
For the record, Chris, you’re not the world’s only bipolar atheist. So quit using it as an excuse to act like a fucking joke – you’re giving a bad name to those of us who aren’t using our psychiatric conditions as license to act like egotistical little snots.
I go now to hell, to dine upon shit.
And you’re just arousing me more.
Chris:
No. I’m too busy imagining your firm buttocks cupped in my right hand.
Because like you, he is pathetic? You’re both apparently here to entertain each other by saying the stupidest shit possible. Stupid shit that has absolutely nothing to do with PZ and his merchandise. You’re thread hijacking losers. How about you guys go Skype and masturbate to each other’s video feeds?
This is the one and only time I am addressing you directly Chris. Savor it, if you want. Because I am done here.
PS – What is this “Killfile” business about? Can I do it in case the Chris menace spreads? And are there anti-stupid pills to give to people like Nigel who just can’t bring themselves to STFU?
WTRA:
Y’know what? You’re a fucking douche-donut, but you’re right.
Chris has demonstrated that there’s nothing more tediously boring than a mediocre nihilist with narcissistic personality disorder. And I’ve apparently proven that I have nothing better to do than amuse myself past the point of amusement.
And really, you should apologize for the mongoloid slur. That truly was uncalled-for.
Get some Brownian in here for some gay secks. That’ll calm Chris down and be a spectacle for everyone else that is quite different from Chris’s perpetual masturbation show going on now. Everyone wins.
Anyway, King PZ, I beg you: put this asshole out of his misery. He couldn’t be a much more obvious troll right now unless he had a large tuft of pink hair, practiced voodoo, and had regeneration 5. We have a severe fire and acid shortage, Master PZed! The banhammer +5 is our only hope! Think of the NPC’s!
The only comment I made about Sornette’s Why Stock Markets Crash: Critical Events in Complex Financial Systems was that I thought it was too technical for you. It has big words in it like “economics” and “financial” and “speculation”, all of which are probably outside your vocabulary. Oh yes, I also said the book was pretty good.
So explain to me how I “fibbed.” Or just admit you’re still whining about me because I called you a mediocre asshole.
I understand now. You’re not claiming I didn’t read Sornette’s book, you’re pretending I said I’d read Taagepera’s book. Obviously you missed my post #421 where I said:
I even admitted I had not read the book. So where do you get the idea I said I had read it? It looks more and more like your mediocrity is getting the better of you.
What’s the word for someone who expresses indifference at the thought of letting a fellow human bleed to death on a city street, but demonstrates repeated obsessive outrage at the notion that someone might have lied or ‘fibbed?’
Ah, poor ickle diddums Chris! Did the big bad Pharyngulites pick on you, den?
I didn’t say that, you said that in your post #461.
I was referring to Sornette’s book.
Want to try again?
Chris:
So, let me get this straight.
Your very first post is antagonistic, full of swagger and braggadocio and implied insults. You continue in that vein. You’re a tedious, uncreative asshole with almost every post.
And you don’t expect people to reply in kind, only with far more creativity?
That’s not being picked on. That’s just reciprocation.
Awww, I play the world’s smallest violin for you. You know what else would be a solution to the problem of getting picked on by all the mean bullies on the internet ? Shutting the fuck up. Or at least walking away long enough for us to forget what an insufferable asshole you’ve been.
Nigel:
But, but…there’s not supposed to be reciprocation in the comments section of a blog!!1! There’s just supposed to be quiet awe and a plateful of cookies (and maybe a ham) for the Amazing Creepitude of Chris!
[meta]
Chris:
And you’re an obsessive kook who is looked-down by everyone, including the other trolls.
Heh.
Coffee mugs are good. I’d like to see you repurpose all the Pharygula headers as graphic designs on merchandise, with the permission of the designers. A header would wrap nicely around a mug or make a decorative band on a shopping bag or shirt. Just remember to include a V-neck option for the well-endowed who don’t want to look vast from neckline to a given point.
See this is that obsessive angry behavior I was concerned about.
It’s not healthy buddy.
Caine, you fail at life. Surely you cannot be this stupid (you sounding like a drunk Michael Caine in a Spacesuit in my mind helps soften the stupidity though). I didn’t even put a question mark there. You cannot be as stupid as your above comment implies. Let’s rephrase your comment to reflect the reality here:
“When a troll, who is surprisingly lame and obvious, even for a troll, clearly attempts to hijack a thread, we MUST not only engage with the troll, but magnify his hijacking power by responding to him hundreds of times, simply because he said mean things when he showed up.”
Wow, Chris not only knows how to write the names of a bunch of books and attach .PDF suffixes, he can even post the list in OCR.
Underwhelmed is an understatement.
I approve of this message. I would buy probably a half dozen mugs like that.
Chris says:
I believe you. At least, I believe that you’re currently angry enough that you truly believe you mean it. You know better than any of us whether you’d really kill another person through your own action or inaction.
As for being picked on…is that really, honestly your perception of what happened in this thread? Set aside the bluster and the ego for just a second and ask yourself that. Is that really your perception of what happened here?
Do you really, honestly think you showed up in this thread all perfume and roses and all the meanies piled on you and just started picking on you out of the blue?
I don’t believe it, Chris, and I don’t think you do, either. Just admit that you stepped on a landmine. You didn’t know what to expect when you came waltzing in here. You’re probably used to being the big man on campus and getting your ego boost when you jump into a typical Internet comment thread, fly unzipped and waggling your e-peen in people’s faces. That probably works great for you on the reddits and the chans.
But this. Is. Sparta.
WishfulThinkingRulesAll #592 (and previous)
Your concern is noted.
WishfulThinkingRulesAll @ #592:
I’m sorry. Who died and made you Lord and Emperor of the Internet? Or were you just appointed as the High Commissioner of Blog Comment Regulation?
truebutnotuseful asks:
Chris replies:
So you’re admitting that you…fibbed?
Chris, read my post #180. Then consider the fact that my education is considered average for Pharyngula. This place prides itself on intellectualism and evidence based arguments. When someone shows up throwing unevidenced opinions around, we stomp pretty hard.
“This is Liberty Hall, you can spit on the mat and call the cat a bastard.” -A. Bertram Chandler
Solstice ornaments: hanging earth globes with the axis on a 23.5° tilt.
More merch: Signed copies of PZ’s book.
Or has someone already suggested that?
Ze Madmax:
Really? This tired routine? You take offense because I am making the reasonable suggestion not to completely and utterly destroy the comment thread by out-hijacking the hijacking troll? That’s your move? Hostility to reason? Er, ok. You know, as someone said to me, no one is forcing you to read my posts (Hur hur hur, I am so smart, look what I just did). Tell you what, why not talk about PZ’s merchandise? Oh, sorry, my bad, I don’t want to sound rude and Emporer-like by making non-stupid suggestions. My apologies. Here are some really dumb suggestions instead. Go write 57 posts to Chris and also, inject spaghetti sauce directly into colon, and pray to the Lord of the Dance.
Be the change you wish to see in the world, indeed.
Nigel:
Carlie did, back in the last post PZ did about the book. I’d prefer to have a signed copy myself and would pay more for it. Doing it through the Pharyngustore would be a great way to do it though.
Monado, I don’t decorate for Solstice, but maybe I would with something like that. One question though, where would these things be hung?
truebutnotuseful asks:
Chris replies:
In post #579, you wrote that you were “thoroughly fed up with being picked on.”
In post #597 I asked if it was your perception that you had been picked on. In post #601 you said “No.”
Reads like fibbing to me. Which in your apparent moral hierarchy is a crime greater than letting someone bleed to death on a city street.
Also: why is it OK to let someone bleed to death, but not OK to encourage them to commit suicide? Your system of moral codes seems unclear – did you also create them in Python?
I feel I should probably confirm that Chris’ AKA NeuraltNätverk’s claims about his mental health issues agree with what he has written in the past. I remember reading something about it in one of his forum posts from a few months ago when I was lurking the VoF forum (VoF = The Swedish skeptic’s association).
…
Uh, and I think that big/huge/enormous tea mugs might be popular.
Caine, Fleur du Mal:
Most definitely.
There is a question I haven’t seen asked (though it’s difficult to wade through this thread at this point): what would PZ like to see in his store? I mean, if there’s anything we can do to contribute. I know many good folk deal with textiles. Knitted tentacle beards? An octopus that sits on one’s head, with tentacles dangling down the neck?
These are things that would be cool, but probably unrealistic.
WishfulThinkingRulesAll #609:
Tired routine? Perhaps. But you did not make a reasonable suggestion. You explicitly attacked another poster for suggesting that one engages a troll instead of ignoring it.
I would argue that you’re not being reasonable, as clearly the horse has run out of the barn, so it’s a bit late to start yelling at other people for keeping the doors closed after the horse escaped. But hey, whatever gets you off.
nigelTheBold @ 616:
ZOMG WANT.
Nigel:
There’s a question. I think PZ finally caved on the clamoring for merch because of the move to FTB. I wouldn’t mind seeing the Pharyngula ‘cuttlefish’ offered up large in a pdf for those of us who would like to use it as a pattern.
Ze Madmax, Wishful is just annoyed that their trolling isn’t garnering the same attention as Chris’s. Routine stomping of feet, concern style.
Oh and on the T-shirt front, I’d like both tank tops and long-sleeved Tees to be offered up.
This is the worst troll I’ve ever seen.
[meta]
Yeah, observer.
It’s actually quite funny watching Chris breaking down.
Wow Chris – you are seriously pathetic.
Chris, seriously. Get off the computer, take your meds, and take a nap. Do whatever it is you do to come out of a bad mental state.
It’s no one else’s fault if you go manic; nobody can get you pissed off, as you claimed earlier. No one is responsible for your attitude but you. Don’t try to guilt-trip everybody else for playing along when you were the one starting it and egging everyone on, especially when you knew what getting yourself angry could do.
Chris – you control how you react to it. Exactly what do you think you’re managing to do by posting a lot of German singing…
The hell?
Is my pgdn broken?
You control your reaction to that stimulus, yes. You can control whether you get into that situation in the first place; you seem to already know your triggers, yet you not only dove straight in to them, you encouraged them and played them up to get that result. Is it as easy for you as for a neurotypical? No. But that doesn’t mean you get to hide behind it and act like an ass anyway and refuse to do what you can about it.
I think it’s his way of putting his fingers in his ears and singing, “La-la-la-la-la-la-la!”, over and over. If he doesn’t want to hear you, nobody will!
Wouldn’t it be radical if he popped himself?
Wow, that’s as embarrassing and pathetic an attempt at trolling as I have ever seen on this site.
Some are born stupid, some achieve stupidity, and some have stupidity thrust upon them. Looks as if Chris here went for the hat-trick.
Shorter Chris:
“You’re all big meanies who should take responsibility for picking on me and apologize for it!
“But my words and actions are just the result of the distribution of the neurotransmitters in my synapses!”
I think he only took a break from slagging because he had to go cut off a woman’s toe.
No it wouldn’t.
And obvious troll is obvious.
No. Why don’t you pop yourself on out of here.
No, really. The death of a commenter on the merch thread? You can’t pay for that kind of publicity. And everyone from Ken Ham to Abbie Smith would link to the page. Opportunity knocks!
Hopefully the troll finds PZs banhammer after that diarrhea.
LOL, this thread is completely shot to hell. I shouldn’t respond to this but, hey at least at least I won’t spend another 48 posts talking about it, one and done here:
Ze Madmax says:
That’s what I did? Yeah? Let me ask you something, are you dishonest or just really stupid? Serious question because I did no such thing. Over a few posts I pointed out that 1) there were a couple of trolls in here who were totally obvious and completely lame, 2) there is no good reason to *keep conversing* with said trolls (do not feed the trolls) because of their obvious and lame nature especially since 3) both of them did the internet equivalent of shitting their pants without prodding by any us, 4) also because after a short number of posts they were engaged and cut down plenty by us and most importantly 5) because continuing to yammer on with them only magnifies their thread damaging effects.
But yeah, you go and keep failing at reading and assume something else.
I also rightly pointed out that someone was a complete and utter imbecile for suggesting that continuously attacking the trolls in here was good exercise which kept their “claws sharp.” Only an incredibly stupid person would consider engaging these trolls as proper exercise – just as only a moron would think repeatedly arm wrestling a 6 month old baby would keep that person in shape. It is just SO stupid on SO MANY levels I am still unclear as to why you are arguing with me about. Oh right, you don’t know how to comprehend what you read and you thought I said other things.
Oh dear, I didn’t even see the spam before I wrote my last post! I think Chris is going to end up in some sort of Troll *Facepalm* Hall of Fame. There’s bad, so bad it is good, then so bad beyond that that all anyone can do is just *facepalm* at the epic failure.
Well at least that is all what anyone with any sense would do.
Good night Pz-ians
Chris might have made the Troll Hall of Fame before the massive copypasta, but now he’s just sad.
Looks like we broke Chris’s brain. Heck, I’d say he even out-Starfarted Starfart – and that’s no small achievement.
yawn
Wowbagger:
No, I think the massive copypasta for attention negates the possibility of a Starfart award.
WishfulThinkingRulesAll @ #682:
I said:
You explicitly attacked another poster for suggesting that one engages a troll instead of ignoring it.
And then you said:
Right before saying:
So. Did you or did you not attack Caine? Because you said you didn’t, right before you said you did. And do keep in mind my original point was a direct reply to your attack. I wasn’t talking about your behavior before that, or after. I merely pointed out that what you think is reasonable may not be, and I stand by it.
I bow to your powers of observation.
But see here, just because you see “no good reason to *keep conversing*” with the trolls it doesn’t follow that everybody else should do as you say. As I said on the first post I replied to you, you have no authority to tell people how to behave here.* Besides, Pharyngulites don’t ignore trolls, they feed them until the trolls explode. This is not a bug, it’s a feature.
No disagreements there.
People may disagree on that (and those who kept engaging the trolls after they had been “cut down plenty” clearly did).
While I agree that it’s a shame that a blog post that could have served as valid feedback for the Pharyngula store ended up overrun like this**, I wouldn’t call it damage. Thread derailing is not an uncommon phenomenon, and sometimes a comment thread naturally develops away from the original topic. I do not see this necessarily as a bad thing, and that is probably why I find your pleas of “not feeding trolls” so pointless.
*Obviously, I have no authority either. But I’m not telling you not to voice whatever opinion you may have on the subject. I’m just pointing out how gloriously stupid said opinion is, particularly after a thread has been thoroughly derailed. If I DID give the impression that I was trying to shove some non-existent authority, I apologize.
**And while I think it’s a shame, I’m sure there are other ways of giving feedback regarding products people wish to see. Crazy thing, the internet.
Well, thank goodness Chris is here to tell us what’s wrong with atheism.
Chris,
Did you say you were taking quetiapine for bipolar disorder?
If so, by which I mean if it is for bipolar disorder and you are telling the truth, please ignore everything previously from me, and if possible from everyone else, and consider the following:
My current work is on designing drugs to deal with bipolar disorder. Granted I am not a clinician, not a psychiatrist and what I am about to say does not constitute medical advice. I am not qualified to give medical advice. I do however do a considerable amount of voluntary work with people who have bipolar disorder. Unlike any of the other diseases I have worked on this one strikes closer to home for reasons I am not going to get into and that has spurred me into a great degree of extra-curricular work so to speak. In other words I am a) extremely familiar with the medical nature of the condition itself, and b) very familiar with a large number of people with the condition.
Please, for your own sake and no one else’s, consider your current actions carefully. Don’t just tell me to fuck off or whatever, pause and think. Right or wrong, justified or unjustified, if what you say about you having bipolar disorder and being on a specific treatment for it is true (this is the internet after all), then your actions your actions should give you cause to think. Would for example, your psychologist (I hope you have one) say your actions were entirely balanced and uninformed by mania or hypomania? Is your current behaviour here part of a pattern of behaviour that has been part of the prodromal stages of mania/hypomania/psychosis in the past for you? Really step back and analyse your behaviour.
Now I do not want an answer. I don’t care about an answer. I am only saying this for one reason and one reason only. IF, I do mean IF, you are telling the truth about having bipolar disorder, THEN your current actions are cause for concern for YOU. Not us, not for anyone here, just for you and the people around you. You matter to you I hope, and I hope the people around you matter. Forget silly disagreements with people on the internet, take care of yourself. Try to recognise the prodromal symptoms of various adverse mood states particular to you. Try to recognise that, if what you say is true, then to someone with a wealth of experience in these matters, even if not a clinician, you would be a cause for moderate concern based on your current behaviour here.
Of course of you are lying, just trolling for kicks, then I am genuinely sorry for you. I hope you find a better activity to occupy your day. In that case you would not have my concern, only my pity.
Louis
Louis, it seems as though Chris has managed to get away from his keyboard for a while and hopefully, will do whatever is necessary to deal with his current state.
Caine,
If the guy is telling the truth about his condition, and if I’ve read him right, then I fervently hope so.
I wouldn’t wish a day of depression on my worst enemy (not that I have any, I’m not 12), and bipolar disorder can be a blessing* and a curse all rolled into one confused mess. So who the hell knows how any individual sufferer might feel.
All I can hope to achieve is to help make these conditions moderately more manageable for some folk. Sounds like a tiny goal doesn’t it?
Everything I’ve seen tells me it isn’t.
Louis
*Please don’t anyone argue with me about that because I didn’t say it. I have met hundreds of people with bipolar disorder who say that their hypomanic mood states can be wonderful. Something they wouldn’t give up for the world. Who am I to deny them their opinion about their own experiences?
Chris has certainly buggered this thread.
I guess he wins.
Until PZ is back in place.
I found an easy cure for Chris’ massive copypasta:
Comment by Chris blocked. [unkill][show comment]
Ze Madmax, I am already embarrassed at myself for writing such a long post to you, so I am only going to respond to the very first part of yours:
Holy cow! Did you never learn the basic skill of reading comprehension? Do the logic circuits in your brain short out whenever someone insults one of your friends? I mean really, you have to be a total moron to reduce my post to you down to incorrect summary. Let’s try this again. There is no point, in fact it just makes things worse, to continuously bicker with trolls at length, especially lame thread hijacking ones. Now I know you are an imbecile, so let me point out some key words and phrases: “continuously” and “at length.” I never said don’t engage trolls ever, I said, it is bad to keep on going with them. Why write one hundreds posts to a thread derailing troll? Why play into their hands? When they already got their ass handed to them, when they already handed their own ass to themselves? No point whatsoever. It doesn’t help, it actually magnifies the problem. It doesn’t keep your “claws sharp”, just as having a math battle with a 4 year old with Down’s Syndrome doesn’t keep your mind sharp.
Now to be fair, in this case, I am not sure what would have happened if Chris was ignored after he was sufficiently spanked. He seems to be completely insane. But people made it extremely easy for him by chatting with him incessantly.
Also,
Please sell coffee mugs PZ!
Chris? Chris, yalright? Chris? Chris, you there? Chris. Chris! Chris, this isn’t funny anymore! Chris! Chris! Chris, say somethin’, man. Chris! Please Chris. Chris!